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MiniMoose
2010-06-01, 07:59 PM
So, Ive been researching the artificer and have a couple questions about the class, and crafting in general.

The reserve points, it says that left overs do not rollover, so you would have to use them. How do you reconcile this when starting above level 1? IE, if I was making a 5th lvl artificer would I need to say "ok at lvl 1 I created this...at lvl 2 this." Also, can crafting something bring you down a level? Like if I just turned level 3 and I made something that cost 80 exp (so it used up all my 60 reserve and then 20 more) do I become a lvl 2 character? Does leveling up give me reserve again?

Also, I cannot find the official wording on it anywhere, but can you apply metamgic to a spell you cast in a wand/scroll/potion? Does it affect the cost beyond the fact that it would increase the spell level?

Also, the time you need to spend on a craft feat, that doesn't require uninterrupted work, correct? If it needs to be dedicated work wouldn't it be nearly impossible to make more expensive items in most compaigns?

sofawall
2010-06-01, 08:18 PM
How do you reconcile this when starting above level 1?

That is the main reason Artificers are rarely played.

Also, if crafting something would take you down a level, you cannot craft it.

Eldariel
2010-06-01, 08:57 PM
Also, the time you need to spend on a craft feat, that doesn't require uninterrupted work, correct? If it needs to be dedicated work wouldn't it be nearly impossible to make more expensive items in most compaigns?

Dedicated Wright Homunculi are the key to solving this problem; have 'em work somewhere (Portable Hole will do) while you adventure and profit.

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-01, 09:08 PM
You get Craft Homunculus as a class feature. There is no reason not to have a Dedicated Wright.

Aharon
2010-06-02, 04:53 AM
@Craft Reserve
There are three ways to do it, ordered from most advantageous for the player to least (and, incidentally, least bookkeeping involved to most):
1) Add up your craft reserve for all levels and craft with the feats you have at whatever level the game starts at.
2) Add up increments and use them (for example, you can use the reserve for the first three levels on items you could create with the feats you got at these levels, the same for the second three levels, and so on).
3) Craft at every level.

@applying metamagic
you can normally not apply metamagic to spells cast from items, but you get this ability at later levels (7th for spell trigger items like wands, 13th for spell completion items like scrolls). I don't think you can do it with potions, but there may be a feat or a prestige class for that purpose - I don't know if Alchemist Savants can do that, but they are potion based.

@time
already answered. In a campaign with little downtime, you still won't get done lots after teleport becomes available, even with a dedicated wright. Travel times are next to nonexistent, so you can go from one place to another too fast for your crafting.

HunterOfJello
2010-06-02, 06:28 AM
The lost crafting reserve points and lack of UMD skill points at low levels are harsh, but the class is still beyond amazing.

Don't forget about the Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles) feat which lets you use the Mage's Spectacles soulmeld to give yourself +4 UMD, +4 Decipher Script, and +4 Spellcraft all day.

shadow_archmagi
2010-06-02, 07:55 AM
@applying metamagic
you can normally not apply metamagic to spells cast from items, but you get this ability at later levels (7th for spell trigger items like wands, 13th for spell completion items like scrolls). I don't think you can do it with potions, but there may be a feat or a prestige class for that purpose - I don't know if Alchemist Savants can do that, but they are potion based.

There are also infusions. In particular, Metamagic Item lets you apply one metamagic to a wand for free for rounds-level.

As for how you do crafting XP, well, that varies from DM to DM.

But yeah, most people put a workshop in their (PORTABLE HOLE/BAG OF HOLDING) and just have their Wright do their crafting for them.

Aharon
2010-06-02, 08:03 AM
@shadow_archmagi
Yeah, forgot about that. There's also one in Magic Of Eberron, but only certain metamagic, and only spell completion items.

Ingus
2010-06-03, 06:38 AM
In general, starting at X level means starting with X.000 XP.

My high level Artificers were built with that in mind. So yes, you start crafting at 1st level with reserve points and whenever needed, you invest in crafting your own XP.
Also note that at lower levels you propably have to succeed on a UMD check that is not automatic. The fairest way to do it is to multiply your needed XP for the percentage of failing (i.e.: you fail with a 3 on d20 or lower, so you need to multiply your XP needed for 1.15 to represent the 15% of failure).
You can, alternatively, roll every UMD check with your DM after character creation and every failure implies investment in personal XPs.

This will probably end in you being at lower level, but stuffed of magic items (my personal say is, above level 6, to invest in Craft Costructs and start surround you of Golems and Effigy creatures).

Then, when your character is in play, you can (and probably have to) spend your craft reserve to pay XP cost for infusions, since the best has XP cost.

Aharon
2010-06-03, 06:43 AM
You can't use your craft reserve to do that. It's a craft reserve, not a "spend XP on infusions" reserve.

However, the infusion Ingus is talking about is Spell-Storing Item. You can get the effect of this 1st level infusion with the 4th level infusion Concurrent Infusions without paying the XP cost. That's an ok trade, because Spell-Storing Item gives you access to all 1st to 4th level spells.

Vampire D
2010-06-03, 11:07 AM
Before beginning this i would like top say that Artificers are awsome, they also can be extreemly useful to a party. Anyone who is semi-familiar with the magic item creation rules i would advise to give them a shot.




The reserve points, it says that left overs do not rollover, so you would have to use them. How do you reconcile this when starting above level 1? IE, if I was making a 5th lvl artificer would I need to say "ok at lvl 1 I created this...at lvl 2 this." Also, can crafting something bring you down a level? Like if I just turned level 3 and I made something that cost 80 exp (so it used up all my 60 reserve and then 20 more) do I become a lvl 2 character? Does leveling up give me reserve again?

The answer to you first question is no. You dont have to use all of your reserve points for each indiviual lv (that would be a pain), though usually if you are creating items you will be using them.
To your second question is (to my knowleadge) no. You cannot be deleveled due to lack of exp to make an item, because if it would do so you cannot make it.
And to your thrid question, your reserve pool refreshes to the point value of the level listed beside your recently aquired lv.



Also, I cannot find the official wording on it anywhere, but can you apply metamgic to a spell you cast in a wand/scroll/potion? Does it affect the cost beyond the fact that it would increase the spell level?

First i dont think that you can use metamagic on a potion, though it wouldn't supprise me if you could through other means. And no using the class ablility does not affect the cost at all, you dont have to make the magic item with higher CL to use metamagic through it, you just burn through its useages equal to the total number of increases that needed to reach your affect.


In Addition: If you want to make your items the cheapest that they can be use the item creation feats in the Eborone Campin setting, the item creation feats in the Forgotten Relms Campain Setting, and the supplementary rules (on page 280 something)in the DMG. With these reductions you items can be made very cheaply.

Example formula: Original item cost *1/2(your crafting it)=Crafting cost
Then Crafting Cost-25% of crafting cost(crafting feat in ECs)= Cheaper item Then Cheaper item-25% of crafting cost(Fogotten Relms feat)= very cheap item Then Very cheaper item-30% of crafting cost(DMG making the item only useable to a specific alignment/class)= almost free then Almost free-10%of crafting cost(DMg item now requires a skill to use)= virtually free

And lastly if you DM is really generious see if you can use a diaplomacy check to reduce the material cost by and additional 10%.

shadow_archmagi
2010-06-03, 01:13 PM
Before beginning this i would like top say that
You cannot be deleveled due to lack of exp to make an item, because if it would do so you cannot make it..

Actually, if I recall correctly, you can spend all of your XP if you want. You can craft until you're down to 0 XP. It'll take a looong time to level up, though.