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View Full Version : Is there a base class that is somewhere between the barbarian and the paladin?



realbombchu
2010-06-02, 08:41 PM
See topic. I am considering a warblade with both Tiger Claw and White Raven movesets, but if there is something better, please let me know. Thanks!

Oh, I'm building a single class male human character. He will be the primary melee combatant, and I'm using 28 point nonstandard point buy if that helps. And when I say better, I mean more true to the concept, not just more powerful. Thanks again!

AstralFire
2010-06-02, 08:49 PM
See topic. I am considering a warblade with both Tiger Claw and White Raven movesets, but if there is something better, please let me know. Thanks!

Oh, I'm building a single class male human character. He will be the primary melee combatant, and I'm using 28 point nonstandard point buy if that helps. And when I say better, I mean more true to the concept, not just more powerful. Thanks again!

Sohei?

It sucks, but the Sohei might be what you're looking for.

I will note that the Crusader is more of a fit than the Warblade, but it's a very boring class IMO.

742
2010-06-02, 08:54 PM
the half orc paladin substitution level? gives them a rage-like ability instead of smite evil, ask if you can take that for a human.

Private-Prinny
2010-06-02, 09:19 PM
For the mechanical part, I think you hit the nail on the head with Warblade. Just remember that your class does not define your character. Role-play him in the way that you think falls between Paladin and Barbarian, and the class you pick won't matter.

realbombchu
2010-06-02, 09:23 PM
I was already considering the half-orc sub levels, but thanks for supporting the idea. I would like to homebrew a new class skill list in that case, but I don't know if that'll be okay.

I think the crusader would fit better than a warblade too, but they don't learn Tiger Claw normally.

Thurbane
2010-06-02, 09:25 PM
A Binder/KotSS with the right vestiges bound can emulate some of the class features of Barbarians and paladins, but I guess this isn't exactly what the OP is looking for...

realbombchu
2010-06-02, 09:29 PM
For the mechanical part, I think you hit the nail on the head with Warblade. Just remember that your class does not define your character. Role-play him in the way that you think falls between Paladin and Barbarian, and the class you pick won't matter.

Thanks, I don't want to homebrew unless I have to, so I'm glad you like the class I chose. I don't object to homebrewing, but I also try to use the rules as written. You're right, a class shouldn't define him.

BobVosh
2010-06-02, 09:39 PM
Refluffing a class is not really homebrewing unless you change a mechanic. IMHO at least, and I think it reflects this forums opinion as well. Especially since fluff rarely makes sense for most of the mechanics of any class.

realbombchu
2010-06-02, 10:29 PM
Refluffing a class is not really homebrewing unless you change a mechanic. IMHO at least, and I think it reflects this forums opinion as well.

Sorry, I didn't mean to use the wrong term. I have no problem with homebrewing or refluffing, I guess. I just try to keep it on a once-in-a-while basis is all. But back to the matter at hand.

I'm working on my warblade, but I'm having a hard time because I'm new to ToB. Can anyone recommend a good Warblade handbook?

AstralFire
2010-06-02, 11:16 PM
I was already considering the half-orc sub levels, but thanks for supporting the idea. I would like to homebrew a new class skill list in that case, but I don't know if that'll be okay.

I think the crusader would fit better than a warblade too, but they don't learn Tiger Claw normally.

Tiger Claw is weaker than Devoted Spirit or White Raven; it shouldn't be too difficult to convince your DM to allow you to swap one of the two out.

Soranar
2010-06-02, 11:23 PM
The prestige class Champion of Gwynharwiff (however you spell it, from BoED) is basically this.

Unearthed arcana also has a Chaotic type of paladin , combined with sub levels from being an orc and that's pretty close to what you want.

Wonton
2010-06-02, 11:34 PM
The prestige class Champion of Gwynharwiff (however you spell it, from BoED) is basically this.

Unearthed arcana also has a Chaotic type of paladin , combined with sub levels from being an orc and that's pretty close to what you want.

Yup, Paladin of Freedom. Though honestly, except for anti-fear being replaced with anti-compulsion and Freedom of Movement as a 4th level-spell, it's almost identical to the normal paladin...

Acero
2010-06-02, 11:37 PM
just play an aggresive Paladin... carry a giant axe. You can find rage clickies

Raging Gene Ray
2010-06-02, 11:43 PM
I'm working on my warblade, but I'm having a hard time because I'm new to ToB. Can anyone recommend a good Warblade handbook?

I don't know any handbooks...but I suggest maxing Concentration and always having a few of those Diamond Mind maneuvers readied that let you substitute your Concentration for Reflex/Will/Fortitude saves and one of the Stone Dragon maneuvers that let you make an attack that ignores DR/Hardness.

Vaynor
2010-06-02, 11:46 PM
How about the savage bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) ?

You don't get rage, though.

Wow I severely misread the topic. Ignore me.

Coidzor
2010-06-03, 04:01 AM
So... a NG or TN individual that throws himself fearlessly into battle and has around 3+int skills.

Cogidubnus
2010-06-03, 04:28 AM
So... a NG or TN individual that throws himself fearlessly into battle and has around 3+int skills.

Yes well (and I'm sorry this is not helpful, but it did amuse me) I saw the title, thought this and then proceeded to think "Fighter".

OUCH XD

Amphetryon
2010-06-03, 04:32 AM
Ranger 5/Warblade 5/Abolisher 5/Bloodclaw Master 5.

EDIT: For added fun, have him be a Shifter (ECS) with the Wildshape variant for Ranger.

Amphetryon
2010-06-03, 08:20 AM
Silly me. Forgot Singh Rager, from Oriental Adventures. It's a PrC, unfortunately, but it's a Lawful character with Rage.

Knaight
2010-06-03, 09:02 AM
See topic. I am considering a warblade with both Tiger Claw and White Raven movesets, but if there is something better, please let me know. Thanks!

Oh, I'm building a single class male human character. He will be the primary melee combatant, and I'm using 28 point nonstandard point buy if that helps. And when I say better, I mean more true to the concept, not just more powerful. Thanks again!
Rethink single class, and you have the following option.

Multiclass Crusader and Warblade, with a Devoted Spirit focus on the Crusader, and Tiger Claw focus on the Warblade, with a bit of Iron Heart tossed in to simulate the resilience both of those classes have. Two weapon fighting, using a sword and shield, which optimizes healing, but more importantly mixes the traditional, paladinesque weapons, with the fury, no holds barred style of the barbarian. The classes are designed to multiclass together well, and really, they might as well be two talent trees within the same class, to borrow Saga terminology.

Alternately, Warblade, take Devoted Spirit stances and manuevers with feats. But this leans rather heavily on Barbarian-Fighter and rather lightly on Paladin.

The first option pretty much creates a furious mailed warrior with a sword and shield, fighting furiously with divine aid, and it makes sense. They fight like a beserker because they know that a) They are extremely tough and b) They are protected by their god anyways. It works ideally as a tank, and is optimized to the level where they can survive on the front lines and dish out some pain, without being broken. Because lets face it- if the character can't do that, it doesn't simulate the intended character well. It is the concept you want.

Greenish
2010-06-03, 09:18 AM
Brilliant Gameologists don't have a proper warblade handbook yet (shame on them!), but Tome of Battle for Dummies (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=357.0) is a good place to start.

Thurbane
2010-06-03, 04:44 PM
The Hellreaver PrC (FC II) has Holy Fury, and is a decent PrC for a Paladin.

Kaiyanwang
2010-06-03, 05:13 PM
Sohei?

It sucks, but the Sohei might be what you're looking for.


Sohei has been pimped in a dragon agazine updating OAdv to 3.5. The power level, doesn't match ToB either.

Sohei didn't have so much support, you should anyway homebrew something for him (say, a sort of battle blessing, adding mechanics like the ones in Champion of Gwynharwyf).

realbombchu
2010-06-03, 10:21 PM
I like the idea of a multiclass crusader/warblade, but I think we're all single class in this campaign. I know it's unusual, but at least the warblade is close to what I'm after.

I'm still thinking about making a new class, but I won't use it this time.

Hague
2010-06-03, 11:21 PM
The Knight from PHB2 is sort of like a paladin barbarian. They are required to be lawful and they follow a code but they gain 1d12 and can take a lot of punishment and defend other characters. They also act as great party leaders with high charisma scores aiding in their battle oaths and challenges. They turn their shields into decently effective weapons as well. Their Armor Mastery abilities allow them to use Fortified adamantite armors without movement penalties too. Their Bulwark of Defense makes all the squares that they threaten into difficult terrain as well. Eventually, they can learn to never automatically fail a saving throw on a roll of one. (In my game's I reversed saving throws so this works differently, a roll against saves+10 that is a twenty isn't always a hit)

The Holy Liberator from Complete Divine is also a 'chaotic paladin.' A barbarian would simply need Iron Will (not a bad feat for a barbarian to have anyway) and 5 ranks in diplomacy and sense motive. Of course, they'd need +5 BAB too, but that shouldn't be too hard to come by. The PrC is only available to Chaotic Good people, so it's possible. They gain some spells per day, smite evil, detect evil, celestial companion (mount or otherwise) and an aura that protects against charms and compulsions. Their code of conduct is less strict in that they simply can't do any evil acts. Though, this isn't a single-class solution.

I don't have Tome of Battle so I can't say how good those abilities are. From what I hear they seem to be a bit imbalanced.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-03, 11:47 PM
The Knight isn't that great, and "party leading" requires absolutely no crunch of any kind. Bulwark of Defense is generally considered their only especially good feature. Shields are never decent weapons.

Iron Mind is never a good feat, either, and especially not for Barbarians who gain a nice-ish bonus to Will saves when Raging. No idea how good the Holy Liberator is but I'd be shocked if it was any good; almost no Paladin-like class designed by Wizards for 3.5 has been.

Tome of Battle's Crusader is the only exception to this that I am aware of. The book in general is by far the most balanced one ever written for 3.5, hands down, with no competition of any kind.

In other words... I pretty much disagree with everything you just said, Hague. Sorry, no offense is meant, but I think you're misjudging several of these abilities.

AstralFire
2010-06-04, 05:43 AM
The only reason party leading requires no crunch in 3.5 is because White Raven is the only major thing that competently mechanically represents it in any way and no one was going to let their parties wander with no sense of purpose and direction for most of the edition's life. :P

Bharg
2010-06-04, 06:02 AM
Isn't the Knight somehow between Palading and Barbarian?

Greenish
2010-06-04, 07:11 AM
Isn't the Knight somehow between Palading and Barbarian?The Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=2) doesn't have anything barbaric except d12 hitdice.

realbombchu
2010-06-04, 01:18 PM
Yeah, no knight. It was one of the classes I considered, and I don't mean any offense, but it's just not what I'm after. Thanks for the input though.

megabyter5
2010-06-04, 01:42 PM
When I saw the title, all I could think was "yeah, it's called every other base class there is." I'd say when you think about it in terms of concept, all other classes are somewhere between paladin and barbarian.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-04, 03:01 PM
I'd think Paladin and, say, Dread Necromancer are at much more extreme odds.

Coidzor
2010-06-04, 03:09 PM
I'd think Paladin and, say, Dread Necromancer are at much more extreme odds.

Mmm, schizoid alignment rules.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-04, 03:22 PM
It's not just the alignment, but also consider the differences of their archetypes - melee, defender, courageous front-liner leading the way - compared to a caster, summoner, hiding behind his pack of minions and taking pot-shots with dark energy. Though you could argue that there are similarities between Smite Evil and Charnel Touch.

dspeyer
2010-06-04, 07:18 PM
Why not just multiclass barbarian with paladin of freedom? Alternate levels and fluff it as both at once. Most DMs will wave the multiclassing restriction if you put it that way.

Take the Extra Rage and Extra Smiting feats -- you'll want them. Consider shifting to ToB after 8 or 12 levels, since plain melee starts getting left behind around then.