View Full Version : [3.5] Dumb trick, just want to see if it works

2010-06-02, 09:48 PM
Short winded:

Metamagic Effect from Incantatrix + Persist Spell + Dragon Breath + Animate Breath = lots and lots of elementals all day?

Long winded:
Consider the spells Dragon Breath (Spell Compendium 74), which gives the caster a piddly damage breath weapon for rounds/level that you can only use every 1d4 rounds as a fourth level spell - normally, I'd pass. Then consider Animate Breath (Spell Compendium 11), which in this context takes your breath weapon and turns it into a summoned huge elemental. Again, using a seventh level spell and a fourth level spell to eventually get out some elementals in combat doesn't seem all that powerful.

But like many benign personal range arcane spells, Incantatrix (PGtF 61) changes circumstances. Consider using Metamagic Effect to persist both of these spells. Can you then churn out elementals every 1d4 rounds that will last all day? I understand that a large number of elementals is the least of a DM's concerns if he allows incantatrix. I just want to know if this works, or if I'm missing something obvious.

Thanks, playground.

2010-06-02, 10:05 PM
No. Animate Breath creates one elemental per casting. Persistent Spell applied to that will just let the single elemental endure for 24 hours.

2010-06-02, 10:15 PM
The wording doesn't seem clear to me. Does this mean that, with or without persistent spell, you'd lose the use of your normal breath weapon for the duration of the elemental's existence, or simply that there's a limit to the number of elementals? Is it possible for you to quote the relevant text (with emphasis to aid in understanding your interpretation) without breaking forum rules? For some reason my curiosity was piqued here, hence the post.

2010-06-02, 10:33 PM
I don't want to quote the whole thing, but it talks about turning your breath weapon into a creature with one casting of the spell, not turning each use of your breath weapon into a creature. The duration is just how long the creature lasts, not how long you're allowed to keep breathing out new elementals.

2010-06-02, 11:06 PM
I think the wording is ambiguous also. "Target: Your Breath Weapon" could mean the whole thing as Curmudgeon said, or it could just mean a use of it.

2010-06-02, 11:58 PM
My interpretation: Each animate breath is a separate casting and requires another use of Metamagic Effect to persist. You only need 1 Metamagic Effect to persist dragon's breath.

2010-06-03, 02:30 PM
Since you animate the breath weapon, you can't use it again until the animate breath effect ends. You can have multiple breath weapon types but you can only have one of each type, so at most you could Dragon Breath/Animate breath four times, creating lightning, acid, cold, and fire elementals. You'd have to apply metamagic persist effect to both spells since if the dragon breath spell drops the breath weapon that is animated no longer exists. The advantage is in that the elementals created by this spell are mostly non-standard types (acid, cold, and electricity) and that they have none of the vulnerabilities that standard elementals have. This could give you a significant advantage against energy-type specific enemies. Also, since the elemental isn't extra-planar, it can't be banished or dismissed but could fool enemies into believing it could be.

If you allow the use of gemstone dragon breath types in the casting of Dragon Breath, then it is possible to have a sonic elemental with this trick as well. Might be pretty interesting, given the nature of the attack. Though, I don't recall any books mentioning a Sonic subtype.