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casper
2010-06-03, 03:48 AM
PHB says, that you can assume a form of a golem via shapechange. But golems are immune to magic. How does it work?
Does he gain magic immunity at all? If yes, that means it makes exeption at least for Shapechange itself.
Does it make exeption for buffs made before taking golem form? If no, are they supressed or just end?

Thanks in advance!

Kristoss
2010-06-03, 04:00 AM
As the spell is cast before your a golem I'd allow it.

QuantumSteve
2010-06-03, 04:15 AM
Shapechange functions like Polymorph. Spell Resistance (and therefore Spell Immunity) does not apply to Polymorph.

So a Golem can be Shapechanged (or Shapechanged into)

Irreverent Fool
2010-06-03, 05:01 AM
Shapechange functions like Polymorph. Spell Resistance (and therefore Spell Immunity) does not apply to Polymorph.

So a Golem can be Shapechanged (or Shapechanged into)

Furthermore, a character always bypasses his own SR. Since Spell Immunity tends to be referred to as "unbeatable SR", it makes sense.

Or you can look at it this way: A character can lower his SR in order to accept a spell from an ally, and then raise it again. This doesn't force a check against the SR.

Coidzor
2010-06-03, 05:03 AM
Furthermore, a character always bypasses his own SR. Since Spell Immunity tends to be referred to as "unbeatable SR", it makes sense.

Or you can look at it this way: A character can lower his SR in order to accept a spell from an ally, and then raise it again. This doesn't force a check against the SR.

Except it's stated more like this
Immunity to Magic (Ex)

Golems have immunity to most magical and supernatural effects, except when otherwise noted.

Hence, the confusion as far as I can tell.

From the way it's stated in the individual entries though, I'd have to say treating it as unbeatable SR is the sanest solution.

Ingus
2010-06-03, 06:15 AM
From SRD Shapechange



You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form, but you lose your own supernatural abilities


So you gain golem's immunity to magic. But immunity to magic is like Spell Resistence = infinite, and since Shapechange (like Polymorph) has no saving trow, nor SR, you can cast it on a golem and you can also keep using it to shapechange again in something else when tired of being a Golem

jindra34
2010-06-03, 06:19 AM
Except it's stated more like this

Hence, the confusion as far as I can tell.

From the way it's stated in the individual entries though, I'd have to say treating it as unbeatable SR is the sanest solution.

Thats the 3.0ish version 3.5 states that is immune to any that require spell resistance with some additional rules.

Irreverent Fool
2010-06-03, 06:25 AM
Except it's stated more like this...

Immunity's short description is in the statblock like that, yes. In the descriptions of Special Abilities, however, it is defined as:

Special Abilities - Spell Immunity
A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm)

casper
2010-06-03, 11:37 AM
Thanks! I didn't even check if SR apply to Polymorhh. But... that means, that Polymorph, Shapechange and even Wild Shape work in Antimagic Field... Wow.

Eloel
2010-06-03, 12:06 PM
Thanks! I didn't even check if SR apply to Polymorhh. But... that means, that Polymorph, Shapechange and even Wild Shape work in Antimagic Field... Wow.

AMF and Spell Resistance are VERY different. None of the 3 you listed works in AMF.

weenie
2010-06-03, 12:12 PM
Thanks! I didn't even check if SR apply to Polymorhh. But... that means, that Polymorph, Shapechange and even Wild Shape work in Antimagic Field... Wow.

Not sure about this one.. AMF suppresses ALL spells that aren't instantaneous conjurations, regardless if they allow SR or not. But if you shapechange into a golem the text describing AMF states:


The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting ... These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities, however, may be temporarily nullified by the field.

so a caster, that's turned himself into a golem won't be affected by the AMF(if he has any buffs, that allow no SR they stay!), but he won't be able to cast. At least that's how I read it..

Irreverent Fool
2010-06-03, 12:18 PM
so a caster, that's turned himself into a golem won't be affected by the AMF(if he has any buffs, that allow no SR they stay!), but he won't be able to cast. At least that's how I read it..

That is incorrect. That text refers to the creature itself. This means that skeletons created via animate dead (instantaneous) or creatures that are in some way animated by magic such as golems are not rendered immobile or destroyed by the AMF. Ongoing spells on such creatures are separate things. Thus, just as an ongoing bull's strength on a golem would be suppressed in an AMF, so too would a wizard's shapechange, turning him back into his normal form.

Bear in mind that any effect with a duration of "instantaneous" is not an ongoing spell effect. Its effect created a change, but the magic has since gone, leaving its results behind. Damage cause by a magic missile is instantaneous, for example, and does not go away in an AMF.

Greenish
2010-06-03, 12:19 PM
so a caster, that's turned himself into a golem won't be affected by the AMF(if he has any buffs, that allow no SR they stay!), but he won't be able to cast. At least that's how I read it..He can cast instantaneous conjurations. Pew pew orb of X.

Irreverent Fool
2010-06-03, 12:22 PM
He can cast instantaneous conjurations. Pew pew orb of X.

I'm pretty sure he can't. He can cast such things through it, but not while inside it:

Antimagic Field
...Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicfield.htm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicfield.htm)
Since the magic to conjure the orb of X would be originating within the field, it appears it would be prevented from functioning and therefore not conjure the ball of energy.