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View Full Version : Help. Me. I'm. Going. Insane.



Rithaniel
2010-06-03, 06:06 AM
Alright, in all of me and my friends years of playing Magic the Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons, never have we even once had the desire to play a Planeswalker. Don't get this wrong, the Planeswalker cards are freaking awesome, and add a new dimension to the game, we have no problem using them in a deck or two, but, when it comes down to what a Planeswalker actually is supposed to be, in the MtG universe, me and my friends have never once liked the idea.

For those of you who might not know what a Planeswalker is, the shorthand of it would be 'mortal ascended to deific state'. This skeleton idea is fine, playing a demigod is cool. The only thing is that Planeswalkers were never intended to just be that: Planeswalkers were meant to be untouchable by everything and anything except for other Planesewalkers, and not having a challenge in the game is just not fun. Playing what a Planeswalker was intended to originally be would not be even remotely interesting.

Of course, on the same note, the images, concepts, locations, and ideas captured in the MtG cards are just cool, and there is still a desire to play some of these characters. So, recently, me and my friends decided that a class, not based around being a Planeswalker (as so many have attempted in the past), but based around being one of the characters embodied on a creature card, like the Hypnotic Specter or the Platinum Angel, would be very desirable. In turn, I, being the resident 'homebrewer' of our group, took on the task of designing this class. I did not know what I had I done.

I've been working on this class for a while now, and what I've got so far, follows:

The best idea I had for capturing the feel of MtG, would be to have the player essentially 'design a card' as they rose in level, with the restrictions as to what you can give your character being based around what 'colors' you are.

First and foremost, the colors of the game are 'white', 'blue', 'black', 'red', and 'green'. You also have 'colorless' cards, which would also be adressed in the class. A character could pick one of these colors and go through it till the end, being pretty much average. Mono-colored cards are simple to play and usually give you a straight-forward benefit. Being mono-colored with this class would give a similar feel, being easy to pull off all around. Or, you could go with no color at all, and follow the path of 'colorless' cards. 'Colorless' cards are things like Eldazi and artifacts, and, while being able to be played with any mana at all, usually are a bit more expensive, but are also some of the most impacting and versatile cards in the game, being your Darksteel Colossi, Emrakul, and Platinum Angels. Being a 'colorless' character would lead to requiring more investment (more expensive class features, or something), in exchange for impressive and exotic returns. At the other end of the spectrum, you could simply choose to be 'all colors at the same time'. Cards like this are called 'rainbow cards' and, while being the most difficult in the entire game to play, they also are game enders and the most powerful cards in the entire game, being things like Sliver Legion, Horde of Notions, and Progenitus. Playing a 'rainbow' character would be desirable to feel the same way, insanely difficult to pull off, but, if you do, you freaking rock.

Now, that was the easy part. Next, you begin to hit some of the confusion of 'everything in between'. These start off by saying 'two colors at the same time'. Now, this can be done one of two ways: dual-colored cards, like those way back in Ravinca, costing one white and one black, or split-colored cards, like those that surfaced en masse in Shadowmoor, costing one white or one black. This would be likely simple to work out how exactly they would work, after a night of headaches and deep work, but then I looked up to the next teir of 'three colors at the same time' and saw the 'one white and one green and one black' version, the question of whether I should make a 'three-way-split-color' option, 'what if I mixed a mono-color with a dual-color-split that the mono-color didn't consist either side of?', 'what if I mixed two dual-color-split combo's together like (one black or one white) and (one green or one white)?', 'what about two colors and a split?', 'No not four colors', 'You could be a rainbow card using nothing but dual-splits', 'you could also be a rainbow card using two triple-splits of different types, one dual-split, and a single mono--

After that I kind of decided to stop and seek help. Suggestions on how this could work are very welcome and appreciated, please, I invite you to post as many different answers as you possibly can, and try to help me figure this out.

Holocron Coder
2010-06-03, 09:00 AM
I have some ideas for this... Lemme toy with them for a bit, then throw them your way :smallsmile:

I'm working on writing up the basics of a base class that can handle all of the colors, with suggestions (but not write-ups) of how to handle a few example PrCs (I'm thinking 3).

Once I have a few basics down, I'll send you a PM with the class and let you do with it as you wish :smallbiggrin:

Zaakar
2010-06-03, 09:05 AM
Is this 3.5 or 4th edition? If it is 4th, please ignore the following post :smalltongue:

I take it you are seeking a base class (though it might be cool to make a set of coresponding PrCs).



Playing a 'rainbow' character would be desirable to feel the same way, insanely difficult to pull off, but, if you do, you freaking rock.
You might want to drop this idea - "freaking rock" is way too close to "being overpowered". On the other hand, different classes in dnd are very differently powerful, so accepting a differance in powerlevel might be acceptable. Your choice, really.

I get two ideas for a base class. Both are a little more complex and a little less lucid then ideal, but hey, your practicly asking for it :smallamused:

The first idea that comes to mind is to make somthing similar to this (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B8x-2FGqWrmtZDU1NzE3YzQtMTI4NC00Y2IzLTg5ZGItZWMzMzE5MG YzZmJl&hl=en) (read page 3, it's awesome). I'm going to say goodbye to the elegancy of that system and suggest that you efficiently make one set of tracks for each color (18 tracks, maybe too much work). Then you let the player take one level in a specific number of different tracks of his choosing, no color restrictions. Thay way you can go for single color or rainbow, the way the player wants to.
For further customization options you can give away better base statistics at the cost of letting the player choose less tracks, or something.
If you wanna do this, I'd be glad to help (it seem like alot of work).

The other idea I get is that you pretty much make a huge list of abilities, sorted by color, purchasable at a cost of "build points" (or somthing) that you gain each level of the class and can save up between levels. This seem like an even worse idea to me but you asked for all answers I could come up with so there you have it.

That's if you want to have one base class covering all colors, which might be a very bad idea. After writing the above it also strikes me that if you want to be able to "design a [creature?] card" then that would involve a race problem. Making a race part of a class is possible (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724&page=1), but you might want to choose how to tackle that problem.

Lord Raziere
2010-06-03, 09:41 AM
ahem.....the new planeswalkers aren't gods y'know.......its perfectly possible to make a planeswalker RP now since WotC nerfed them :smallsmile:

but at the same time, I don't think you can fit a planeswalker into 3.5 edition or anything, to truly play a planeswalker you have to design a Mt:G roleplaying game, mana being so different from vancian spellcasting

The-Mage-King
2010-06-03, 10:43 AM
ahem.....the new planeswalkers aren't gods y'know.......its perfectly possible to make a planeswalker RP now since WotC nerfed them :smallsmile:

but at the same time, I don't think you can fit a planeswalker into 3.5 edition or anything, to truly play a planeswalker you have to design a Mt:G roleplaying game, mana being so different from vancian spellcasting

Like this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Spell_Points) is?

Rithaniel
2010-06-04, 10:15 AM
Is this 3.5 or 4th edition? If it is 4th, please ignore the following post :smalltongue:

I take it you are seeking a base class (though it might be cool to make a set of coresponding PrCs).

Yeah, 3.5e and a base class. Of course, PrCs would be an interesting spin on this, but right now, we're aiming to make it be a base class.



Playing a 'rainbow' character would be desirable to feel the same way, insanely difficult to pull off, but, if you do, you freaking rock.

You might want to drop this idea - "freaking rock" is way too close to "being overpowered". On the other hand, different classes in dnd are very differently powerful, so accepting a differance in powerlevel might be acceptable. Your choice, really.

Well, ideally the class wouldn't be any more powerful than the Psion or the Warblade. Of course, when I said "freaking rock", I was thinking something like the Warblade using Raging Mongoose and Time Stands Still together with TWF. Impressive, and doing it 'freaking rocks', but not exactly overpowered.


I get two ideas for a base class. Both are a little more complex and a little less lucid then ideal, but hey, your practicly asking for it :smallamused:

I'm looking for as many idea's as I can get.


The first idea that comes to mind is to make somthing similar to this (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B8x-2FGqWrmtZDU1NzE3YzQtMTI4NC00Y2IzLTg5ZGItZWMzMzE5MG YzZmJl&hl=en) (read page 3, it's awesome). I'm going to say goodbye to the elegancy of that system and suggest that you efficiently make one set of tracks for each color (18 tracks, maybe too much work). Then you let the player take one level in a specific number of different tracks of his choosing, no color restrictions. Thay way you can go for single color or rainbow, the way the player wants to.
For further customization options you can give away better base statistics at the cost of letting the player choose less tracks, or something.
If you wanna do this, I'd be glad to help (it seem like alot of work).

I like this idea. The 'track system' is really creative and offers up a wide array of possible customizations. I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'elegant', but it surely is cool. Of course, that might still be a little too rigid for what I have in mind. This certainly helps, though, and we're probably going to incorporate some of this into the class somewhere.


The other idea I get is that you pretty much make a huge list of abilities, sorted by color, purchasable at a cost of "build points" (or somthing) that you gain each level of the class and can save up between levels. This seem like an even worse idea to me but you asked for all answers I could come up with so there you have it.

This is actually kind of interesting. The idea of 'saving up points between levels' isn't actually desirable, as it could lead to unnecesssary complications, such as being able to get class features too early, or being too weak at level 1, but, I could see maybe saving 1 out of every 4 points you get, to a maximum saved ammount of your ecl, or something. This system is actually ringing in my head as what would be good: kind of a 'free-floating' system.


That's if you want to have one base class covering all colors, which might be a very bad idea. After writing the above it also strikes me that if you want to be able to "design a [creature?] card" then that would involve a race problem. Making a race part of a class is possible (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724&page=1), but you might want to choose how to tackle that problem.

Yeah, 'designing a creature' would be the most accurate way to say it. Of course, the race doesn't exactly matter. If a person wanted to be a 'Kor Druid Knight', then they would just take the race 'Kor', and go with the class, designing themselves to be green and white style. Also, why might having a base class for all 5 colors be a bad idea? I don't follow you there.


ahem.....the new planeswalkers aren't gods y'know.......its perfectly possible to make a planeswalker RP now since WotC nerfed them :smallsmile:

but at the same time, I don't think you can fit a planeswalker into 3.5 edition or anything, to truly play a planeswalker you have to design a Mt:G roleplaying game, mana being so different from vancian spellcasting

lol, well, me and my friends probably won't ever be able to see them as anything but what they originally were. So, thanks dude, but I doubt it really makes any difference.

Zaakar
2010-06-04, 04:12 PM
Yeah, 'designing a creature' would be the most accurate way to say it. Of course, the race doesn't exactly matter. If a person wanted to be a 'Kor Druid Knight', then they would just take the race 'Kor', and go with the class, designing themselves to be green and white style.
Point. Glhf making all the races :smallsmile: (Admittedly you would only have to make the races the players of your party is interested in...)


Also, why might having a base class for all 5 colors be a bad idea? I don't follow you there.
This just generally cause a waring bell to ring in my head. Maybe I've just seen alot more failed homebrew classes that put tons of possibilities in the same class then the ones that actually pulled it off.

I've got this bookmarked. Let us know how you choose to do this :smallwink: