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Quarrel
2010-06-04, 01:50 AM
Just something I've been tinkering away with. I'll put my commentary in blue, to explain a couple of my decisions. That said, a couple of things before I start. Firstly, I wanted them to be mechanically interesting and worthwhile - there's not much point spending time setting up an elaborate shadow defender if he's just going to be a fighter or a warden with his armour painted black. Secondly, I wanted to tie them in to the Assassin mechanically, you'll see what I mean further on. So enough of that, here's my take on a 4e version of the Blackguard, tweaked a bit to fit into the setting/power source setup

Blackguard
“Death can wait. I’ve got a job to do.”

CLASS TRAITS
Role: Defender. With bonds of dark power you maintain a threat on a number of targets at once, allowing you to focus on any of them at a moment’s notice. Depending on your choice of class features and powers, you lean toward either controller or striker as a secondary role
Power Source: Shadow. In a moment of desperation, you have reached out to the Shadowfell for power.
Key Abilities: Constitution, Strength, Charisma

Armour Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail, scale, plate
Plate armor here is a nod to their heritage as 'anti-paladins', and I've avoided giving out shield proficiencies because I thought it could be interesting to present a defender class where the default assumption is that he will be wielding a two handed weapon.
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged
Bonus To Defence: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 15+ Constitution Score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 6
Healing Surges per Day: 10+ Constitution Modifier
Again, a nod to the anti-paladin theme by giving them similar stats here. One thing I'm worried about though is the fact that as Constitution is an important ability for the class at the moment, good scores here are even more beneficial for the Blackguard than for the Paladin.


Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose 3 trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int) Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis)

Build Options: Dark Sentinel Blackguard, Dread Reaper Blackguard

Class Features: Blackguard's Shackles, Shadow Coil, Tainted Bargain
One consideration here was the addition of a feature to offset their lack of shield proficiencies. One I was considering was giving them a +1 Shield bonus to AC and Reflex against enemies in melee range and calling it 'The Best Defence'. I think, in the end, that Plate armour should be enough to keep them with a solid AC. Great Weapon Fighters do alright in Scale, after all.

When a mortal dies in a moment of great need, they will sometimes make a desperate bargain with a terrible evil in order to return from the Shadowfell. There are many dark entities that attempt to exert their control over the spirits of the dead, and a truly desperate warrior can gain great power by agreeing to serve one of these powerful creatures faithfully when they die again. While their powers are drawn from a dark god, these warriors retain their free will, often performing great acts of heroism with their tainted powers.
As a blackguard, you have made a terrible bargain in order to save something more important to you than your own soul. You could have been a paladin who failed in his duty to defend a relic of his god, a warrior who died attempting to protect his child from harm or a druid who fell while holding off defilers in a sacred glade. No matter the cause, your bargain grants you the ability to protect that which you could not in your first life.
Dark shadows flicker at your back, ready to be unleashed upon your foes. You have been granted a second chance at life; will it be worth the cost?

CREATING A BLACKGUARD

You can choose any blackguard powers you like for your character, though many blackguards focus on powers that complement their choice of Tainted Bargain. All blackguards rely on Constitution. Blackguards also benefit from a high Strength of Charisma, depending on which form of bargain they have made.

Dark Sentinel Blackguard

You focus upon using your powerful weapon attacks to punish your chosen opponent in melee. Make Strength your highest ability score, followed by Constitution, which improves your class features as well as increasing your hit points. Charisma is a good third ability score, as this will let you select powers designed for the Dread Reaper build. Consider wielding a high damage weapon, such as a greataxe or a maul, and choose powers that deliver the highest amount of damage.

Dread Reaper Blackguard

You focus upon channeling fear through your blackguard’s shackles with which to constrain and hinder your opponent. Make Charisma your highest ability score, followed by Constitution, which improves your class features as well as increasing your hit points. Strength is a good third ability score, as this will let you select powers designed for the Dark Sentinel build. Consider wielding a reach weapon, such as a longspear or a halberd, and choose powers that allow you to reduce your opponents’ effectiveness.

BLACKGUARD CLASS FEATURES

Blackguards have the following class features.

Blackguard’s Shackles
You gain the blackguard’s shackles power. You wield the dark power of the Shadowfell to bind your opponents with shadowy chains that threaten retribution if they ignore your strikes.


Blackguard’s Shackles
The wisps of shadow tethered to your opponent harden into iron bands, dragging them toward your blade
At-Will * Shadow
Minor Action / Close burst 5
Target: One creature in burst that is not marked by you
Effect: You subject the target to your shackles. A target may only be subject to one set of your shackles at a time. Up to four creatures may be subjected to your shackles at one time. The shackles last until the end of the encounter or until the target ends its turn more than 5 squares away from you.
As an immediate reaction when a creature subjected to your shackles deals damage to an ally with an attack that doesn’t include your as a target, you may invoke your shackles. The target is pulled 1 square for each creature that you currently have shackled and takes necrotic damage equal to the distance pulled + your Constitution modifier. The damage increases to twice the distance pulled + your Constitution modifier at 11th level, and to triple the distance pulled + your Constitution modifier at 21st level.
In addition, if the target ends the forced movement adjacent to you, it is marked. If you already had a creature marked due to this power, that mark ends. Upon completing this immediate reaction, each creature that you currently have shackled is released from your shackles.
While a target is marked, it takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target.
You can use blackguard’s shackles once per turn.
The shackles are where I want it to feel mechanically similar to the Assassin, but enhancing his defender abilities rather than striker abilities. I have a feeling that this is leaning toward the overpowered at the moment, as they can essentially maintain a suite of 4 different enemies who they could suddenly decide to mark at any time. That said, it is an immediate reaction and it also removes the shackles. There's also the consideration that it will take 4 turns to reach maximum defender potential, being able to threaten creatures up to 5 squares in each direction and that if you switch marks too often you'll rapidly run out of shackles.

Shadow Coil
You gain the shadow coil power. Blackguards can divert a portion of their own life force to form a protective barrier of shadows around an ally.


Shadow Coil
Weapons seem to snag in tangles of shadow around your ally
At-Will * Shadow
Minor Action / Melee Touch
Target: One creature
Special: You can use this power a number of times per day equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum 1), but only once per round.
Effect: You spend a healing surge but regain no hit points. Instead, the target gains temporary hit points equal to your healing surge value + your Constitution modifier. You must have at least one healing surge remaining to use this power
Again, the anti-paladin vibe is referenced, though this time I also wanted something that would tie into the 'power now, and who cares about later' vibe that the class has

Tainted Bargain
Choose one of the following bargains below.
The choice you make also provides bonuses to certain blackguard powers. Individual powers detail the effects (if any) your Tainted Bargain has on them.

Sentinel’s Bargain
A result of a contract to defend the borders of your patron’s realm in the Shadowfell upon death, you gain the sentinel’s resolve power.


Sentinel's Resolve
Strength seems to flow into you through the chains of shadow.
Encounter * Shadow
Free Action / Melee 1
Trigger: You pull a creature to an adjacent square with your Blackguard’s Shackles power
Effect: You gain resistance to all damage equal to the number of creatures of shackles that were released during the triggering action until the end of your next turn.

Reaper’s Bargain
A result of a contact with to hunt and capture the souls of the dead for your patron upon death, you gain the reaper’s touch power. In addition, when making opportunity attacks, you may use your Charisma modifier rather than your Strength modifier to determine your Attack and Damage bonuses.
Wouldn't be much of a defender without a decent opportunity attack.


Reaper’s Touch
A wave of fear floods through your shackles, overwhelming your enemy’s senses.
Encounter * Shadow
Free Action / Personal
Trigger: You pull a creature to an adjacent square with your Blackguard’s Shackles power
Effect: The target gains a weakness to all damage equal to the number of creatures of shackles that were released during the triggering action until the end of your next turn. This power will not negate any resistances that the target may have.

Blackguard Powers
Your powers are called hexes. They draw upon the magic of the Shadowfell granted to you by your tainted pact. You can focus on the use of shadows to punish your foes for every misstep, or simply give yourself to cleave whatever offends you to pieces.

Level 1 At-Will Hexes


Blackguard’s Defence
You put your foes on the defensive with a rapid series of strikes.
At-Will * Shadow, Weapon
Standard Action / Melee Weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Charisma or Strength vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Charisma or Strength modifier damage and you gain a + 2 shield bonus to AC and Reflex against melee attacks until the start of your next turn.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Charisma or Strength modifier at 21st level.

Black Pulse
You slowly channel a stream of darkness through your shackles, sapping your opponents resolve.
At-Will * Shadow, Implement
Standard Action / Close Burst 5
Target: Each creature in burst currently shackled by you
Attack: Charisma vs Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier necrotic damage and the target takes a -1 penalty to its Will defence until the end of your next turn.
Increase damage to 2d6 + Charisma modifier at 21st level.

Butcher’s Hook
Lashing out with your weapon, you snare your opponent and drag him back toward you.
At-Will * Shadow, Weapon
Standard Action / Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a weapon with the Reach property
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier damage and the target is pulled one square.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Charisma modifier at 21st level.

Dread Blow
One by one, your shackles collapse as you turn their energy toward your foe.
At-Will * Shadow, Weapon
Standard Action / Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage and the target takes a penalty to its attack rolls until equal to the number of creatures currently shackled by you. Any creatures currently shackled by you are freed.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Strength modifier 21st level.

Shadow Strike
As your weapon connects, tendrils of shadow leap from the blade, flooding your opponent’s wounds.
At-Will * Shadow, Weapon
Standard Action / Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier necrotic damage. If you marked the target, you gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Constitution modifier
Increase damage to 2[W] + Strength modifier at 21st level.

Grey Watcher
2010-06-04, 11:10 AM
Admittedly, I'm not very good at gauging mechanical balance, but the one thing that does leap out at me is the Tainted Bargain bonuses. Given that the Shackle mechanic and everything points to this guy as a stationary defender, pulling targets to him, a skill bonus feels... off. A bit too situational to be very useful. To me, it feels more like a something that should be a class feat rather than a class feature.

Fluff-wise, I wouldn't tie it so firmly to Orcus and Vecna specifically. The assassin fluff, as I recall, is about cutting out a chunk of your soul to make room for Shadow-based powers, not necessarily making a specific bargain with another entity. The fluff actually reads more similarly to the Revenant race than the Assassin class (though the two ARE closely linked).

On further thought, I think you may be right that Shadow Coils are a bit over-powered. An at-will class feature that pulls multiple targets to you AND allows you to mark them? Compared to Fighters having to invest in encounter powers like Get Over Here? As an alternative, perhaps Shadow Coils are a marking mechanic in and of themselves (like a Paladin's Divine Challenge/Sanction/whatever). Then you could craft specific powers that let you do increasingly nasty things to the victims of your Shadow Coils.

Anyway, I'm really frustrated with the slow pace that Wizards is taking the milk the Shadow power source, and this is a solid framework, so way to pick up the slack here! Plus it's nice to see the Blackguard come into his own with his own shtick.

Quarrel
2010-06-06, 06:44 AM
Thanks for the response, I've made a couple of tweaks to things based on what you've said - the fluff is similar, but a bit more ambiguous, just a deal with some sort of powerful evil entity rather than being locked into Vecna or Orcus, and the different bargains based on the result of the deal rather than the entity itself.

I tweaked the Blackguard's Shackles power - it now consumes all the shackles you currently have active, which means that they can only really be doing their full 5 square threat bubble once every 4 turns.

And finally I totally redid the bonuses for the tainted bargains - they're now encounter powers that trigger when you drag someone adjacent to you with your shackles and either give you damage resistance or your enemy damage vulnerability for one turn.

I've got a draft of a few at-wills that I'll put up as well when I get them formatted.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2010-06-06, 10:23 AM
Seems like you could just re-flavour the paladin for the same effect. :smallconfused:

Quarrel
2010-06-06, 10:36 AM
Well, on one hand, yes. But to make it really work nicely you'll want to be houseruling all the radiant damage to necrotic anyway and that's going to significantly change the way the class works (Most likely making it lean toward underpowered - copious radiant damage is a big paladin strongpoint). And there's also the fact that I'm not just trying to make a Paladin wearing a funny hat. I'm going out to make a unique and mechanically interesting class that has it's own niche beyond just being an anti-paladin.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2010-06-06, 10:47 AM
Well, on one hand, yes. But to make it really work nicely you'll want to be houseruling all the radiant damage to necrotic anyway and that's going to significantly change the way the class works (Most likely making it lean toward underpowered - copious radiant damage is a big paladin strongpoint). And there's also the fact that I'm not just trying to make a Paladin wearing a funny hat. I'm going out to make a unique and mechanically interesting class that has it's own niche beyond just being an anti-paladin.

Yes, but a paladin shrouded in darkness attacking with necrotic frost, vile acid, or towering hellfire gives a nice effect.

Quarrel
2010-06-06, 11:12 AM
Well you could absolutely use that as a concept for a Blackguard character, but you could just as easily play him as a druid who died protecting the resting place of an injured nature spirit and has returned with powers that are twisted versions of everything he once stood for, whose shackles would manifest themselves as shadowy vines that bound his opponents. Or you could play him as a simple commoner who was killed along with his wife by bandits and made a pact for the power to take his revenge on the murderers, who now struggles daily with his life alone and the terrible powers that he now wields. The point is to make something open enough that people can do interesting things with it rather than being limited to the one thing (For example, I'm always really frustrated that I can't make a Dwarven Axemage using the Swordmage class.)

On another note - a first draft of some At-Wills is up now.

Deathdarken
2010-06-16, 12:15 AM
hay why not just post there where all the 4.0 players will eventually go to, to post stuff I'm working on getting them to come here

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155748

DiscipleofBob
2010-06-16, 11:31 AM
First of all, nice work on the class so far. It's well-organized and well-thought out, and I like the concept. I've tried something similar to the 'anti-paladin' concept with a different homebrew of mine (in my sig), but I definitely didn't go the direction you were taking it. I also appreciate the design notes, it makes it a lot easier to see where you're going with the class. Now, on to the critique.


The shackles are where I want it to feel mechanically similar to the Assassin, but enhancing his defender abilities rather than striker abilities. I have a feeling that this is leaning toward the overpowered at the moment, as they can essentially maintain a suite of 4 different enemies who they could suddenly decide to mark at any time. That said, it is an immediate reaction and it also removes the shackles. There's also the consideration that it will take 4 turns to reach maximum defender potential, being able to threaten creatures up to 5 squares in each direction and that if you switch marks too often you'll rapidly run out of shackles.

Interesting, this is definitely a unique class feature. It seems like a pseudo-mark which can become a real mark. I'll admit I never liked the Assassin's bit of stacking up shrouds for extra damage, as it seemed subpar for me, but something similar is what you're going for with this class so let's take a look.

The first thing I have to ask is is this meant to be a once-per-round action? As it stands, the Shackles could be used on 3 separate enemies in a turn, 4 if you really wanted to waste an action point. Yes, you wouldn't get any other attacks for the turn, but depending on the situation that might be a better option.

The second thing I have to say is nix the necrotic damage altogether. Otherwise, it's basically an autokill for minions. Now that I think about it, save the necrotic damage for the marked target instead.



Again, the anti-paladin vibe is referenced, though this time I also wanted something that would tie into the 'power now, and who cares about later' vibe that the class has

I see the whole 'parallel to Paladin' thing, but you have a different problem here. Even though you have the Blackguard advertised as a primary defender and either a secondary controller or striker, Shadow Coil is definitely a leader ability. Instead, what if you changed this so it was an attack against an enemy, something like the following:


Shadow Coil
At-Will * Shadow
Minor Action / Melee Touch
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma +2 vs. Fortitude
Hit: You spend a healing surge but gain no hit points. Instead, the target takes necrotic damage equal to your healing surge value, and you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier.
Special: You can use this power a number of times per day equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum 1), but only once per round.


Or something like that. The damage=healing surge value I'm not sure whether it's balanced, broken, or underpowered, it was just something I thought of on the spot. But other than that, the attack would mirror the Paladin's Lay on Hands as you want, but it would be more parallel to the Inflict spells such a character would get in 3.5, and you'd be giving yourself some temporary HP, a very Defender-esque ability.

That's just one solution though.

Looking at the powers, the only one I see a problem with is Black Pulse, which is so situational and possibly broken as an At-Will it really should be an Encounter power. Other than that, the At-Wills are just a tad underwhelming to me because of how situational they are. However, that's usually a good sign if the class seems a little underwhelming to the naked eye, because you'd be surprised what players can pull off with the class.

Anyway, keep up the good work. Looking forward to the rest of the class.