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Matamane
2010-06-04, 11:12 AM
As the title says. Quick question.

They logically should.

How hogtying a monsters arms and legs should have more of a penalty than merely doing either.

Meanwhile it states that conditions stack, and as the penalties are untyped, they logically should.

Is there a definitive answer on this?

The Glyphstone
2010-06-04, 11:18 AM
"Entangled" cannot stack with "Entangled", because it's the same condition. Also, Entangled doesn't represent hog-tied...that's immobilized. An entangled creature is one who just walked into a giant spiderweb, and is covered in sticky webs slowing him down. If you then animate the grass and plants around his feet to trip him up and slow him down, it won't have as much of an effect because it's functionally the same as the webs, and he's already dealing with that well enough.

"Entangled" can stack with "Slowed", because they are two different conditions.

Irreverent Fool
2010-06-04, 01:02 PM
If multiple effects are inflicting the 'entangled' condition, the character will still need to check against each condition to avoid the effect.

Emperor Ing
2010-06-04, 01:06 PM
A hogtied character I would say is Helpless.

But hypothetically, if a character was hit by the Entangle and Bands of Steel spell simultaneously (assuming the character saved vs Helpless but lost vs Entangled), I think the character is still entangled as per normal, but they would need to make Escape Artist and/or Strength attempts against each of the two effects.

Darrin
2010-06-04, 11:08 PM
Is there a definitive answer on this?

Not exactly. It's probably a "No", otherwise the Tarrasque (or any low-Dex ubernasty) is thoroughly f***ed. You could render the Tarrasque helpless with combinations of a lasso/net/razor net, tanglefoot bag, web spell, etc.

mucat
2010-06-04, 11:26 PM
Not exactly. It's probably a "No", otherwise the Tarrasque (or any low-Dex ubernasty) is thoroughly f***ed. You could render the Tarrasque helpless with combinations of a lasso/net/razor net, tanglefoot bag, web spell, etc.
Now wait. If yuou were a DM, would you let any of those effects cause the Tarrasque to become Entangled? If not, then the issue of stacking would never arise.

(And if the answer is "yes", I'm glad you're not my DM.)

Eurus
2010-06-04, 11:44 PM
I can just imagine somebody trying to lasso the Tarrasque...

PId6
2010-06-05, 12:09 AM
Now wait. If yuou were a DM, would you let any of those effects cause the Tarrasque to become Entangled? If not, then the issue of stacking would never arise.
Lasso alone should work on Rule of Awesome. :smallcool:

Lord Vukodlak
2010-06-05, 12:15 AM
No, you can't be entangled twice, would you say you could be stunned four times and end up taking a greater AC penalty then if you were paralyzed. Could you be double dead or triple fatigued[without dropping to exhausted]

Conditions are all effects, and the same effect doesn't stack. bulls strength and divine power cast together give a +6 enchantment bonus on strength not +10. The reason being its an enchantment bonus it doesn't stack.

The condition rules state if certain effects can't be combined you use the worse of the two. The same should apply to multiple entanglement effects. You make one check to break free of them all against the most difficult of them.

RelentlessImp
2010-06-05, 12:16 AM
Lasso alone should work on Rule of Awesome. :smallcool:

Been done with an epic Use Rope check (it's floating around here somewhere). Also lassoing an undead dragon, hopping onto its back, unloading round after round of six-shooter slugs into its skull while the healer smacks it full of positive energy and the rest of the party does as much damage as they can, at level 6 to the campaign-ending BBEG. (SilverClawShift archives)

Sometimes Rule of Cool, Rule of Awesome, and Rule of "Holy CRAP Let's Do This Instead" overrules the actual rules. :smalltongue:

2xMachina
2010-06-05, 04:27 AM
Lasso is stated to be 'partially entangle' though, so it might stack with entangle.

Darrin
2010-06-05, 06:23 AM
Not exactly. It's probably a "No", otherwise the Tarrasque (or any low-Dex ubernasty) is thoroughly f***ed. You could render the Tarrasque helpless with combinations of a lasso/net/razor net, tanglefoot bag, web spell, etc.

I haven't quite made up my mind about that yet... my style of play was heavily influenced by the Feng Shui RPG, which in my mind tends to boil down to the question, "Would it work in an action movie?"

When I run D&D, however, the extremely rigid rules structure tends to work against that sort of by-the-seat-of-your-pants style of gameplay. It kind of boils down to the style of game I'm trying to run... if its a game where hog-tying a tarrasque would be part of the genre, sure, I might go for that.

Player intent would also be a bit part of it... to be more specific, if my players were clearly trying to do something for style points rather than exploit a loophole for easy XP, then I'd be inclined to reward that kind of creativity. I also have a hard time imagining that I'd introduce the Tarrasque as anything other than a plot and/or metaplot element outside the normal rules of play.