PDA

View Full Version : [4e] hybrid vs MC and best controller/striker combo?



randomhero00
2010-06-04, 01:39 PM
Basically when should one multi-class and when should when hybrid? Any tips for a good controller striker combo? I already know wizard is decent at it by itself, but I want to learn/play with MC or hybrid. I'm particularly interested if anything goes well with the psion.

Swordgleam
2010-06-04, 01:47 PM
Hybrid is generally considered easier to screw up than MC. I'd say, only hybrid if you know you have a really good build that's better than a single class, or if it's critical to your character concept and you don't mind if it's a bit sub-optimal.

randomhero00
2010-06-04, 01:50 PM
Any well known (good) caster hybrids or striker hybrid builds out there? So I can see an example.

Mando Knight
2010-06-04, 01:51 PM
Psion is pure Controller. Almost as purely controller as you can get. Stacking on damage outside of the Ranger MC is difficult.

Best Controller/Striker combos are probably cleverly played Predator Druids, Genasi Wizards, Warlocks, and Sorcerers. Then comes the Ranger and most other Controllers, which are generally too heavily invested in something else to play the other half of the role... except possibly the Seeker, which I haven't tried yet.

Hybrids prefer builds that focus on blending the two classes into one. Multiclassing instead adds a bit from another class into yours.

randomhero00
2010-06-04, 01:58 PM
How would one MC psion with ranger? Is there a feat that lets one use int or cha instead of dex for to hit with a bow? otherwise I'd imagine accuracy would be abysmal.

Mando Knight
2010-06-04, 02:01 PM
How would one MC psion with ranger? Is there a feat that lets one use int or cha instead of dex for to hit with a bow? otherwise I'd imagine accuracy would be abysmal.

No. Just take the initial feat, and then you're done. That's it. No more Ranger. Nothing.

Well, Lethal Hunter, if you really want to push it...

randomhero00
2010-06-04, 02:06 PM
Huh? how would you hit anything with a bow though? With no points in the right stats?

TricksyAndFalse
2010-06-04, 02:12 PM
If you take the ranger MC feat from the PHB, you don't need to hit anything with a bow as a psion. The Hunter's Quarry feature is yours to use with whatever power you like, once per encounter.

TricksyAndFalse
2010-06-04, 02:45 PM
Basically when should one multi-class and when should when hybrid?

I think you should multi-class if there is a single additional gimmick you want for your character. I really enjoyed having Hunter's Quarry on my sword & board fighter. I suggest disregarding the nature of the class you are taking the feat for, and instead look at how the mechanics of the gimmick you are getting mesh with your character's class, and fluff it to fit accordingly. In my fighter's case, he wasn't any more conceptually woodsy or ranger-like for having the feat, he just had a knack for hitting a target's vulnerable spot every so often.

For hybrids, never ever pick a pair of classes because you want the fluff of each. If you want that, pick a single class with the mechanics you want, and refluff heavily instead. Only hybridize if you enjoy character optimization, and you've spotted a synergy you think would be fun in play. To repeat, never pick hybrids for role-play reasons, but only because optimization is a fun part of the game for you.


I'm particularly interested if anything goes well with the psion.

I'd be leery of losing power points by hybridizing with a non-power point class, which would rule out any strikers. Hybriding with another class that uses Int as the prime stat would be ideal, but that also rules out any strikers.

The telepathic psion uses Cha secondary, so warlock or sorcerer as the other half might work. Cha-based warlock powers with Int riders might not be shabby. Your curse only works with warlock powers, though. There is less synergy with sorcerer, I think.

The telekinetic psion uses Wis secondary, but I think hybridizing with an avenger is a terrible idea.

EDIT: spelling

Chainsaw Hobbit
2010-06-04, 05:41 PM
Sorcerer/Wizard is probably best but Druid/Monk might work. :smallconfused:

realbombchu
2010-06-04, 08:38 PM
I like fey pact warlock multiclass wizard (Arcane Initiate at level 4)/feytouched/archmage with a focus on teleporting. They wrote a build for this combo in Dragon back when the PHB was the only book. I liked the idea so much that I've been remaking it ever since. Try it, the Intelligence and Charisma requirements of the Warlock go well with the Wizard. Don't feel like you need all the multiclass feats (Novice Power, etc.) just because you multiclassed, btw.

Kurald Galain
2010-06-04, 08:45 PM
Basically when should one multi-class and when should when hybrid?
Pretty much every character should multiclass, because the MC feats are so good (however, he should generally only take a single MC feat, and no power swaps).
I would not recommend creating a hybrid character unless you've got a lot of play experience, because it's rather easy to end up with an ineffective combination.


Any tips for a good controller striker combo?
As you say, wizard by itself is a good controller/striker, adding whichever multiclass feat suits your fancy. Druid, by itself, is also good.

Strikers don't hybridize well, since their striker feature (like Sneak Attack) doesn't work on the other half of their powers. One way to avoid this is by going Barbarian (which doesn't have such a feature, but just has damaging powers) and hybrid with any controller. Another combo that may work is ranger | seeker, using the former to generate ranged basic attacks, and the latter's good RBA powers. Note, however, that the seeker is probably the worst controller in the books.

Nothing really comes to mind to hybridize a striker with a psion, because the psion uses power points and strikers do not.

Mando Knight
2010-06-04, 08:46 PM
Don't feel like you need all the multiclass feats (Novice Power, etc.) just because you multiclassed, btw.
In fact, about 80-90% of the time, taking any MC feats beyond the first is detrimental.

realbombchu
2010-06-04, 08:57 PM
In fact, about 80-90% of the time, taking any MC feats beyond the first is detrimental.

Agreed. At first, I felt almost like I had to take all of the power swaps for completeness, but feats are scarce, and often power swaps just aren't worth the lost feat slot. In the build I mentioned earlier, I only used Arcane Initiate and Adept Power (that's the daily swap, right?) to get what I wanted (training in Arcana, access to Elemental Maw and Archmage, etc.).

Draz74
2010-06-04, 09:01 PM
Another combo that may work is ranger | seeker, using the former to generate ranged basic attacks, and the latter's good RBA powers. Note, however, that the seeker is probably the worst controller in the books.

I'm no expert on the Seeker, and you're probably absolutely right that it's the least "controllery" controller. But regardless, this seems like it would be a very strong combination, and on paper at least it's a Controller/Striker.

(Both classes based on Dex/Wis; both classes use a bow as their attack-stat-item; both classes are the best classes in the game at attacking from more than 20 squares away; the Ranger really only needs one At-Will anyway; and at least the Ranger, if not both classes, don't really need Hybrid Talent to be used on them.)

Mando Knight
2010-06-04, 09:03 PM
Nothing really comes to mind to hybridize a striker with a psion, because the psion uses power points and strikers do not.

Really, the only good hybrid I can think of for psion by that reasoning is telepathy Psion with either Ardent. Outside of that, you can meld either Psion with the appropriate Wizard powers, or TK Psion with an Avenger or Invoker, but Avengers are horrible hybrids for Controllers...