[3.5 Base Class] The Swashbuckler: A Fix [PEACH]

[Samm]

Okay, I love the idea of a street-savvy, intelligent or charismatic fighter. It'd be great to play one, but the swashbuckler class in CA is just underwhelming past level 3. I think it deserves a fix. This is my second homebrew so far. So here it is:

The Swashbuckler

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+0|Swashbuckler Strike, Swashbuckler Dodge, Acrobatics

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+0|Taunt, Feat: Combat Expertise, Duelling +1d6

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+1|Improved Swashbuckler Strike, Evasion

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+1|Parry, In the Gap, Duelling +2d6

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+1|Feinting, Feat: Improved Combat Expertise

6th|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+2|Uncanny Dodge, Duelling +3d6

7th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+2|Cloak Fighting, Lunge

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+2|Improved Flanking, Duelling +4d6

9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+3|-

10th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+7|
+3|Improved Feinting, Duelling +5d6

11th|
+8/+3|
+7|
+7|
+3|Slippery Mind, Improved Lunge

12th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+8|
+4|Feat: Sense Weakness, Open 'em up, Duelling +6d6

13th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+8|
+4|Renowned Duelling

14th|
+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+4|Duelling +7d6

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+9|
+9|
+5|Perfect Feinting

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+5|Duelling +8d6

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+5|Improved Open 'em up

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+6|Duelling +9d6

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+6|-

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+6|Duelling +10d6, Enemy Overreach[/table]

Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 6+Int (x4 at 1st level)
Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (local), Listen, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Swim, Tumble and Use Rope.

Class Features:

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: Swashbucklers are proficient with light armour, light shields, simple and martial weapons.

Swashbuckler Strike: At 1st level a swashbuckler may use his charisma or intelligence bonus, whichever is higher, to modify his attack rolls in place of strength or (dexterity if using the feat weapon finesse), when weilding a finesse weapon and wearing light or no armour.

Swashbuckler Dodge: At 1st level a swashbuckler may add a bonus, up to his class level +1, equal to his charisma or intelligence modifier, whichever is higher, to his AC as dodge bonus. This only applies when wearing light or no armour.

Acrobatics: At 1st level a swashbuckler may add 1/2 of his Swashbuckler level rounding down to tumble, jump, escape artist and climb checks.

Feat: Combat Expertise: At 2nd level, a swashbuckler gains the feat combat expertise, but doesn't have to meet the prequisites. He may only gain the benefits of the feat if he is wearing light or no armour.

Duelling: Starting at 2nd level, a swashbuckler may add the dice listed on the table to his damage, when adjacent to only one enemy and wielding a finesse weapon.

Taunt: At 2nd level, a swashbuckler may taunt an enemy to enrage him. Pick a target, and as a swift action, taunt them. The target must make a will save (DC= 10 + 1/2 Class levels + Charisma Bonus), and if it fails, it becomes enraged for 3 + your Charisma bonus rounds. They for intents and purposes, act as if they were a barbarian during a rage, except they don't gain any bonus to their ability scores, the restrictions on their actions apply and they take the normal -2 penalty to AC.

Improved Swashbuckler Strike: At 3rd level, a swashbuckler may add his intelligence or charisma bonus to damage, whichever is higher, if he is wielding a finesse weapon and the target is vulnerable to critical hits.

Evasion: At 3rd level, a swashbuckler gains the benefit of evasion as per the monk ability, as long as he is wearing light or no armour.

Parry: At 4th level, a swashbuckler, as an immediate action, may make an attack roll after an opponent attempts to attack you. If your attack roll beats theirs, the attack is negated. This ability may be used only once per turn and only when using a finesse weapon.

In the Gap: At 4th level, once per turn a swashbuckler may make an attack and ignore the target's armour bonus to AC. This is doesn't include the target's shield bonus to AC.

Feinting: At 5th level, a swashbuckler may feint as a swift action. To do this, he takes a -4 penalty on his feint check. He also may feint as if he has the feat improved feint.

Feat: Improved Combat Expertise: At 5th level a swashbuckler gains the feat improved combat expertise (CWar), even if he doesn't meet the prequisites. He only gains the benefits of the feat if he is wearing light or no armour.

Uncanny Dodge: At 6th level, a swashbuckler gains uncanny dodge as per the barbarian ability.

Cloak Fighting: At 7th level, a swashbuckler becomes adept at fighting while wearing a cloak. He gains a bonus to AC and feint checks equal to 1/4 of his class level. Additionally, as a standard action, he may throw his cloak in an attempt to temporarily blind an opponent. To do this, he forfeits said bonuses and makes a ranged touch attack, and if it is a hit, it blinds the target until the target takes the cloak off. Taking the cloak off is a move action and provokes attacks of opportunity. The range increment for the cloak is 10ft.

Lunge: At 7th level, Swashbuckler may take a lunge and increase his reach by 5ft until the start of his next turn. This incurs a -4 penalty to AC.

Improved Flanking: At 8th level, a swashbuckler gains the feats Vexing Flanker and Adaptable Flanker, without meeting any of the prequisites. He may only gain the benefits of these feats if he is wearing light or no armour.

Improved Feinting: At 10th level the penalty to feint as a swift action drops by 2.

Slippery Mind: At 11th level, a swashbuckler gains slippery mind as per the rogue ability.

Improved Lunge: At 11th level, a swashbuckler is able use the lunge class feature, whilst only taking a -2 penalty to AC.

Feat: Sense Weakness: At 12th level, a swashbuckler gains the feat sense weakness (Dcn), even if he doesn't meet the prequisites. He only gains the benefit if he is wielding a finesse weapon.

Open 'em up: At 12th level, after a successful attack a swashbuckler may render a target flat-footed. This lasts until the next attack. This can be used once per turn.

Renowned Duelling: At 13th level, any opponents whom you successfully taunt or hit with an attack to which you may apply duelling damage must make a Will save against DC = 10+your Charisma Bonus+1/2 your Swashbuckler levels or be shaken. This is a mind-affecting fear effect; standard immunities apply. If one has made a successful save against this affect, they are immune to it for the next 24 hours.

Perfect Feinting: At 15th level, a swashbuckler now may feint as a swift action without any penalty.

Improved Open 'em up: At 17th level, a swashbuckler may use the Open 'em up ability as many times as his Dexterity modifier in a turn. The effect still lasts until the next attack.

Enemy Overreach: At 20th level, an enemy making a melee attack that misses your Touch AC provokes attacks of opportunity from all those adjacent to him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Swashbuckler Feats

These are entirely by paddyfool, except for dancing duellist, which is by Cadian.

Flashy duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Cha 13+
When you hit an opponent to whom you may apply duelling damage, you may sacrifice up any number of duelling damage die up to your Cha modifier for an untyped bonus to Charisma-based skill checks of +1 per die sacrificed for the duration of this encounter. Multiple bonuses gained in this way do not stack; instead, the highest applies.

Intrepid duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Cha 15+
You may apply your Cha modifier in place of any other base statistic to all saves made while able to apply duelling damage. (This is the weakest of them, I think... suggestions?)

Canny duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Int 13+
When you hit an opponent to whom you may apply duelling damage, you may sacrifice up any number of duelling damage die up to your Int modifier for an untyped bonus to AC of +1 per die sacrificed for the duration of this encounter. Multiple bonuses gained in this way do not stack; instead, the highest applies.

Expert duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Int 15+
You may apply your Int in place of any other base statistic to all opposed rolls made against any one enemy to whom you may apply duelling damage. (Trip, Disarm, Sunder, Overrun, etc.)

Focused duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature; BAB +5
You may still deal duelling damage with a finesse weapon against a single adjacent opponent while adjacent to other opponents with a BAB less than your own BAB-3.

Versatile duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature; BAB +15, Focused duellist
You may still deal duelling damage with a finesse weapon against up to two adjacent opponents while adjacent to other opponents with a BAB less than your own.

Psychic duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature; able to manifest as a level 1 psion or wilder.
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in psion or wilder for duelling damage and manifester level.

Arcane duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature; able to cast as a level 1 wizard or sorceror.
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in wizard or sorceror for duelling damage and caster level.

Devoted duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature; able to cast as a level 1 cleric, or smite evil class ability
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in cleric or paladin for duelling damage, caster level, smite evil and lay on hands

Unscrupulous duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature; sneak attack class ability
You may use the total of your duelling damage dice and sneak attack damage dice whenever you are eligible to do either. (So a Rogue 10/Swashbuckler 10 has a total bonus of 10d6 damage when eligible either to do duelling damage or a sneak attack). The bonus damage from sneak attack only applies to creatures that one can sneak attack normally. ie. vulnerable to critical hits, not invisible has discernable anatomy etc.

Skirmishing duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature; skirmish ability
You may use the total of your duelling damage dice and skirmish damage dice whenever you are eligible to do either.

Iconic Duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Cha 19+, at least 3 "duellist" feats
You may reroll a miss scored on an attack to which you may apply duelling damage up to 3 times per encounter.

Master Duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Int 17+, at least 2 "duellist" feats
The size of your duelling dice increases to D8.
EDIT: Once per day, you may reroll all ones on your duelling damage after rolling.

Supreme Duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Int 19+, at least 3 "duellist" feats
In an encounter in which you have made an attack to which you may apply duelling damage, you may force any one opponent to reroll any attack roll made against you. You may use this ability up to 3 times per encounter.

Epic Duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature; Versatile Duellist; either Supreme Duellist or Iconic Duellist; BAB 21+
You may apply duelling damage to any attack you make with a finesse weapon.

Dancing Duellist:
Requirements: Swashbuckler Strike, Perform 4 ranks, Dex 15.
When you strike an opponent, make a perform (dance) check against a DC = to 10+targets wisdom modifier+Sense Motive ranks. If you succed, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from that foe for moving out of their threatened area.

Infuriating Duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Cha 17+, at least 2 "duellist" feats
The DCs from Taunt and Renowned Duelling increase by 2, and any target you taunt successfully must attack the swashbuckler with their ranged or melee attacks (or spells or special attacks) in preference over other available targets.

[Frog Dragon]

Soo... where are all those abilities?

[Samm]

Soo... where are all those abilities?

It's not finished yet, I accidently clicked the submit reply button.

[Temotei]

Yes! Yes. This makes me happy, because then I can be a swashbuckler without having to multiclass into rogue after level 3, which I'll probably never reach.

Note: Real life. :smallwink: Yes, I'm aware I'm probably a commoner/expert.

Swashbuckler strike should say "(whichever is higher)" after Intelligence or Charisma. Make sure you capitalize ability score names.

Also note that giving swashbuckler strike at 1st level makes this a really, really good dip for factotums.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Just a minor note as I realize that is incomplete, but I would very much like to see either "Grace +1" or something else in place of it with a tag so that feats like Daring Outlaw can still exist. What this new "Grace +1" actually does matters not, however: I just find it annoying when an at least decent feat is obsoleted by an otherwise good homebrew.

[Samm]

Right, I've finished it. It's now open for PEACHing.

[Ravens_cry]

Please good sir, what is "PEACHing", I pray?:smallconfused:

[Samm]

Please good sir, what is "PEACHing", I pray?:smallconfused:

Okay, Please Evaluating and Critiquing Honestly. Of course that doesn't really make sense, but you know what I mean, right?

[Ravens_cry]

Okay, Please Evaluating and Critiquing Honestly. Of course that doesn't really make sense, but you know what I mean, right?
Ah, you have my everlasting, or 'til I spot a shiny item, thanks.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Krazddndfreek]

I've only barely looked this over, but I noticed you were having trouble describing Improved Flanking. It makes perfect sense to me, but in case it doesn't, those two abilities are actually feats in the PHB 2: Vexing Flanker and Adaptable Flanker with the former being a requisite of the latter.

[Samm]

I've only barely looked this over, but I noticed you were having trouble describing Improved Flanking. It makes perfect sense to me, but in case it doesn't, those two abilities are actually feats in the PHB 2: Vexing Flanker and Adaptable Flanker with the former being a requisite of the latter.

Brilliant. I'll fix it now.

[Frog Dragon]

I can't find the description for the taunt ability... :smallconfused:

[Samm]

I can't find the description for the taunt ability... :smallconfused:

Oh whoops, I'll fix it.

Edit: Fixed

[Temotei]

Is there a reason for stunning blow? It just seems like you tacked it on randomly. Is there a fluff reason?

[Samm]

Is there a reason for stunning blow? It just seems like you tacked it on randomly. Is there a fluff reason?

Well, I think a swashbuckler should be able to stun enemies. You know, land a supremely stlyish/intellignent blow, stunning the opponent. Lets say he's good enough to land a hit to the temples, or something else.

[Cadian 9th]

Nice work: Though my cheese factory is requesting just the 1st level of this.

Also, Does the Int or cha bonus count on top of strength and on top of weapon finesse? That would be a bitttt uber. :smallsmile:

dante

[Gorgondantess]

Level 1 is supremely top-heavy. Like, really, really top heavy. This is a one level dip rivaling the mindbender.

[Samm]

Nice work: Though my cheese factory is requesting just the 1st level of this.

Also, Does the Int or cha bonus count on top of strength and on top of weapon finesse? That would be a bitttt uber. :smallsmile:

dante

No. That would be utterly crazy, I probably should edit that in.

Yeah, and I noticed that level 1 is top heavy, should I ditch stunning blow, or move swashbuckler dodge to a later level?

[Frog Dragon]

This would be a really good dip for a factotum. Three levels, and you get your awesome Int even more often.

[Samm]

This would be a really good dip for a factotum. Three levels, and you get your awesome Int even more often.

I was thinking rogue as well... No need to have a high Dex any more! :smallsmile:

Granted, should I change something about this to make it less likely to be dipped?

I'm thinking ditching stunning blow or moving swashbuckler dodge to a later level. What do you guys think?

[Cadian 9th]

I would make it that the add-int or cha-to AC is limited to when using a specific weapon or just for melee...

Also, the add int to attack is fine, as If someone like a rogue wants to dip, then fine, go MAD, and if a Factotum wants to dip, well, nothing to see here. It's not like Factotums suddenly get better by being able to rely on just Int as opposed to just int for most crucial points in a day.

I strongly advise against moving dodge to a later level. Sure, get rid of stun, or put it later, but don't send that back. That just punishes people who take it at level 1. Also, I think the swashbuckler should have a d6 or d8 HD and a multiclass restriction, such as losing efficiency or something.

Make sure to say Dodge only works if you are wielding your finesse weapon... That should cut down on a few builds.

Dante

[Samm]

I would make it that the add-int or cha-to AC is limited to when using a specific weapon or just for melee...

Also, the add int to attack is fine, as If someone like a rogue wants to dip, then fine, go MAD, and if a Factotum wants to dip, well, nothing to see here. It's not like Factotums suddenly get better by being able to rely on just Int as opposed to just int for most crucial points in a day.

I strongly advise against moving dodge to a later level. Sure, get rid of stun, or put it later, but don't send that back. That just punishes people who take it at level 1. Also, I think the swashbuckler should have a d6 or d8 HD and a multiclass restriction, such as losing efficiency or something.

Make sure to say Dodge only works if you are wielding your finesse weapon... That should cut down on a few builds.

Dante

Thanks for your input. I'll remove stunning blow, but I'm not really one for multiclass restrictions. I'll also take the HD down to d8.'

Edit: I've left dodge as is, by the way, because I think that it makes more sense flavour wise. I mean, if you're holding a greataxe, you should still be quick enough to dodge the opponents, almost as if you were using a rapier...

I've made said changes.

Also, I've changed parry to only work when you're using finesse weapons.

[Cadian 9th]

Hmm. Another thing, He's got a wide skill set and 6 sps/level, which I really like but I feel that shows up the Ninja more and Makes the Swashbuckler a rogue/fighter as he can tank a bit. I think 4 sps/level (like Druid or Ranger) is more appropriate. Also, give him some kind of acrobatic awsomeness!

Swashy bukly always seemed to me like the guy with the puffy sleeves, outrageous moustache - give him some nice acrobatics and a bonus on checks to deal socially with teh wimenz. :smallbiggrin:

Dante

[Samm]

Hmm. Another thing, He's got a wide skill set and 6 sps/level, which I really like but I feel that shows up the Ninja more and Makes the Swashbuckler a rogue/fighter as he can tank a bit. I think 4 sps/level (like Druid or Ranger) is more appropriate. Also, give him some kind of acrobatic awsomeness!

Swashy bukly always seemed to me like the guy with the puffy sleeves, outrageous moustache - give him some nice acrobatics and a bonus on checks to deal socially with teh wimenz. :smallbiggrin:

Dante

Okay, maybe I should give him a bonus to acrobatics equal to 1/2 his class level. I'm not sure about socially though... I think having Diplomacy as a class skill should be enough...

Also, I'm not sure about lowering his skill points. Ranger has 6 per level, and I think this guy should have some mad skillz.

[Cadian 9th]

He should get +swashbuckler level x charisma modifier as a bonus when talking to the ladies. :smallbiggrin:

Just like the knight, I mean, Swashbuckler is the dashing taunting rapier guy, right?

And give im something which allows him a bonus if he keeps fighring or moving. I can't imagine a swashbuckler standing still and waiting for combat, nor stopping attacking. Maybe, a short counter charge or perhaps change something to a skirmish style bonus, where attacking counts as moving?

Dante

[Sekolah]

Cloak Fighting doesn't actually list the bonus it gives.

[Samb]

I like these fixes for the most part, but something I find missing. Weapon finess should be there just for the flavor. Swashbuklers are dancng fools on the battlefield.

A fencer without lunge or a fleshe? How about extending the range of dueling to 10 feet? Something like that needs to be in there.

Cloak dance (move action to gain 20% concealment or full round for total concealment) might be considered as well. Cloak fighting doesn't seem to fit mechanically since a cloak should hinder your AC rather than impove it. I mean cloaks are easy to grab, get caught, torn up. Cloaks are useful because you can conceal weapons and obsure your movements.

[Sekolah]

I think the rational behind cloak fighting is that while normally a cloak would hinder a fighter, a swashbuckler knows how to use it to distract his foe (Bonus to AC) and to hide his attacks (bonus to feint). I could be wrong though.

[Samm]

Cloak Fighting doesn't actually list the bonus it gives.

Uh, it's on the table, Cloak Fighting +2, Cloak Fighting +4.

The cloak is there to make you a harder target to hit. It conceals your vitals, obscures your movements and can be used to make you look your in one place, while actually being another. I'm assuming a swashbuckler would be skilled enough to do this with a cloak.

Okay, I'll add in a lunge, and maybe a bonus to acrobatic skills equal to 1/2 class level.

Edit: Made said changes, but the thing is, I'm not really sure what a fleche is... Can somebody explain please?

[Samb]

A fleshe is French for flash, as in flash attack. It is a lunge where the back leg crosses the front foot increasing the speed and distance of a lunge.

[Sekolah]

Why does he get cloak fighting at level 7 but no bonuses until 13th?

[Cadian 9th]

Yeah, good idea making it 1/2 class level and not a specific bonus at a level. I love it when a class grants like a +4 bonus at a certain level, it just punishes people who take it to 20 and rewards people who cherrypick.

How bout the ladies diplomacy bonus? Something similar to the knight homebrew you did, me thinks. Up to you.

Other than that, I rate this at about tier 3. In a combat campaign, with certain RP elements, I put him at tier 2, as his combat ability is spot on, really character ful and quite subtle in being better than the opponent. All he needs is some good Diplo, some good acrobatics and perhaps the ability to negotiate terrain, and he'll be a full tier 2 due to his versatility. Right now e can tank, hit, hit really well...

Though, what keeps it from always being tier 2 is a trick or two. Let's say, give him some threaten ability that makes it harder to do stuff around him, especially when he moves quickly. So he can use his superior AC and acrobatic movement to greater effect. :smallbiggrin:

Dante

[Samm]

Why does he get cloak fighting at level 7 but no bonuses until 13th?

He gets to blind people with his cloak. It's pretty neat when you think about it. He then learns how to feint and obscure himself using the cloak.

Also, nealry on par with sorcerors you say? I don't want him that powerful, I'm aiming all my fixes at tier 3!

[Cadian 9th]

Yeah, how bout the Diplo bonus and the movement class features?

I'd love to see those. Scale back some of his other abilities and bring him back a peg in terms of Attack and Defence (He can take that feat that allows him to add CE from last round to his attack rolls this round, that outpaces a tier 3 anyday, with what, +Dex. He could get shadow blade from ToB, suddenly getting to add his Str, Dex and Int to damage, with deadly defence and other feats such as power attack to get high attack and high defence, with good good damage. I'm seeing some epic stuff with heavy elven thinblades, as that's 2d6, then two of them, so dex to attack +str+int+dex+Pa to damage.

Wait, I'lll post my full cheese as an edit below this.

Dante

[Cadian 9th]

Okay, apology for the above post. My competitive aspect took over, ignore it.

Dante

[Sekolah]

Ah, that makes sense. And I don't think this has any chance of making it to tier two. A sorcerer could blow this out of the water any day and the having skills and being a tank doesn't give you anywhere near the versatility needed to make it past tier three.

[Cadian 9th]

Hmmm... I actually think the Sorcerer would have a lot of trouble dealing with this swashbuckler. Anything that isn't Save or Die the swashcan save, and he'll be able to hit with the best of them. He can be the party's scout, the party's diplomat, and can perform striking duties while controlling combat. His High AC and attack allows him to survive while his acrobatics allows him to outmaneouver his foes, then taunt them. Sorcerer will find it harder to resist a taunt than you think, specially as most guys are optimizng spell effects. As a member of the party, the Swashbucler here performs a solid role and is unlikely to feel UP like a fighter.

Swashbucker (this) when optimized by anyone who know's what they're doing will be tier 2. :smallbiggrin:

Dante

[Sekolah]

The tiers aren't about one on one duels. Obviously the Swashbuckler has an advantage there. The tier system is about how a class contributes overall to a party. When placed in his ideal situation he dominates and his skills assure that he's not completely useless in other situations but overall the sorcerer has more utility.

Also the tiers are assigned based off of the "norm" for the class. Many classes can be optimized to be above their level but that ultimately comes down to whether the character cares about the game and his character as a personality and person or about stats and winning fights.

[Samm]

Yeah, good idea making it 1/2 class level and not a specific bonus at a level. I love it when a class grants like a +4 bonus at a certain level, it just punishes people who take it to 20 and rewards people who cherrypick.


Hmm, I'll probably put the bonus as 1/4 of class level as opposed to a specific bonus at a specific level...

[Cadian 9th]

Hmm, I'll probably put the bonus as 1/4 of class level as opposed to a specific bonus at a specific level...

Wha! 1/4 of class level? That just makes it useless, make it 1/2 level at least. :smallcool:

Anyway, congrats on a solid homebrew.

Dante

[Simba]

In order to make it less of a dipper class you could replace 'adds his [chosen attribute]' with 'adds his swashbuckler level, up to his [chosen attribute]'. That of course only makes sense if you don't want it to be THE dipper class :)

[Samm]

Wha! 1/4 of class level? That just makes it useless, make it 1/2 level at least. :smallcool:

Anyway, congrats on a solid homebrew.

Dante

As a bonus to AC and feint checks? I think not!

Also, in response to Simba, I think that's a reasonable idea, but I'm not sure of it. Is anyone else in favour of this idea?

[Simba]

Look at the Bladesong Style ability for the Bladesinger PrC in Complete Warrior, it has the right wording for it.

[Cadian 9th]

[QUOTE=Samm;8705418]As a bonus to AC and feint checks? I think not!
[QUOTE]

Oh, god no. I thought you were talking about acrobatics only. AC should be only once every 4 levels, a bit like monk. (But not :smallbiggrin: )

And I disagree with the Limiting bonus to class level. I understand that it's to prevent multiclassing awsomeness, but monk and ninja don't restrict it that way. Personally, I think it punishes people who take it from level 1 to 20, and just irritates people who want to dip a little, maybe 4 levels.

You're also assuming that the average user of the class will optimize it, and as I said above, there are plenty of exploitable things in this class that do real nice with other class levels and feats etc. However, those kinds of restritctions tend to punish people who don't optimize, and only hinders those who do optimize. In my mind, that's a bad thing.

Dante

[Samm]

[QUOTE=Samm;8705418]As a bonus to AC and feint checks? I think not!
[QUOTE]

Oh, god no. I thought you were talking about acrobatics only. AC should be only once every 4 levels, a bit like monk. (But not :smallbiggrin: )


Yeah, I already added in both features, I believe. The bonus to acrobatics related skills which is half class level, and the bonus to AC and feint checks which is 1/4 class level.

Also, I'll leave swashbuckler strike as is.

[Temotei]

You're also assuming that the average user of the class will optimize it, and as I said above, there are plenty of exploitable things in this class that do real nice with other class levels and feats etc. However, those kinds of restritctions tend to punish people who don't optimize, and only hinders those who do optimize. In my mind, that's a bad thing.

When I make a class, I keep in mind a standard array of ability scores, items, etc.

That is to say, at level 1, ability scores should be something like this:

Strength: 10 (+0)
Dexterity: 14 (+2)
Constitution: 12 (+1)
Intelligence: 13 (+2)
Wisdom: 8 (-1)
Charisma: 15 (+2)

...for a swashbuckler in your class. That's with the elite array, so expect slightly better.

Add in items and the like and you'll have an unoptimized character. Don't use custom items except in playtesting, extreme examples, and optimization prevention. The optimization prevention, however, shouldn't penalize people who don't optimize.

Also, the acrobatics bonus should say (rounded down) after 1/2 class levels, for ease of use.

[Fizban]

Just wanted to pop in and say that the Dueling ability is brilliant. It has a good condition that doesn't require a buddy, and it's not precision damage. The only thing I don't like is that since it's not a form of sneak attack, you can't use it with sneak attack feats and classes, but that's what you pay to get a decent ability I guess. The rest of the class looks like a list of specific bonus feats, which is about par for the ranger, but the difference here of course is that you actually have bonus damage to work with.

I could go for some sort of ability to increase the dueling damage with a single weapon. Probably a feat line since TWF isn't free itself, and only about half again as many net dice since it's easier to hit and bonus attack from other sources would be more beneficial.

[Cadian 9th]

Just wanted to pop in and say that the Dueling ability is brilliant. It has a good condition that doesn't require a buddy, and it's not precision damage. The only thing I don't like is that since it's not a form of sneak attack, you can't use it with sneak attack feats and classes, but that's what you pay to get a decent ability I guess. The rest of the class looks like a list of specific bonus feats, which is about par for the ranger, but the difference here of course is that you actually have bonus damage to work with.

I could go for some sort of ability to increase the dueling damage with a single weapon. Probably a feat line since TWF isn't free itself, and only about half again as many net dice since it's easier to hit and bonus attack from other sources would be more beneficial.

Agreed. Currently, the class is solid. Only minor tweaks I think are needed, I'm still lobbying for the diplomacy bonus with females for the prestige of being a fancy swashbuckling, outrageous moustache possesing, rogue.
/dante

[Jallorn]

While I don't agree completely with all of the flavor of your class, I do understand some of it, and I borrowed a couple ideas for my own fix (making a fix wasn't inspired by yours, they just happened to coincide).

That said, I'm going to refrain from critiquing, as it might degenerate into my being protective of my own fix. I just wanted to let you know that I borrowed a couple ideas. They were good ideas.

[Samm]

That's good to hear chaps. I'm not entirely sure what Fizban means...

[Pechvarry]

I kinda feel like the cloak ability could be better as a feat requiring some swashbuckler abilities. Not everyone wants to throw stuff on other people's heads.

The incite rage ability -- what's its duration? Presumably, it uses the standard rage duration rules. However, since that's 3+con rounds, your opponent is penalized for having a high con. While funny, it's probably not a good idea to design an ability like that unless it's the focus of your class. I'd suggest 3+(Your cha) rounds. Also, does it include penalties (namely, -2 AC)? Or just behavior?

Anyway, good build.

Oh, also. The whole "using class level to cap X stat to Y" has a very good precedent -- the swashbuckler itself has such a cap. I think it's a good thing, since even a 3 level dip is +3 attack/damage as-is. Think of how many ranks in knowledge skills and the feat people will spend on knowledge devotion just to get +2 attack/damage in lower levels.

[Temotei]

Think of how many ranks in knowledge skills and the feat people will spend on knowledge devotion just to get +2 attack/damage in lower levels.

That's because it scales with your Knowledge checks and it costs one feat, rather than three levels.

[Samm]

I kinda feel like the cloak ability could be better as a feat requiring some swashbuckler abilities. Not everyone wants to throw stuff on other people's heads.

Hmm... I think of it as a buff to AC and Feint, as well as giving a pretty nifty trick.


The incite rage ability -- what's its duration? Presumably, it uses the standard rage duration rules. However, since that's 3+con rounds, your opponent is penalized for having a high con. While funny, it's probably not a good idea to design an ability like that unless it's the focus of your class. I'd suggest 3+(Your cha) rounds. Also, does it include penalties (namely, -2 AC)? Or just behavior?

Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I'll make it last 3+Cha rounds. I meant it to include the penalties, no Combat Expertise, Spell-Casting, -2 to AC, etc.


Anyway, good build.

Oh, also. The whole "using class level to cap X stat to Y" has a very good precedent -- the swashbuckler itself has such a cap. I think it's a good thing, since even a 3 level dip is +3 attack/damage as-is. Think of how many ranks in knowledge skills and the feat people will spend on knowledge devotion just to get +2 attack/damage in lower levels.

Thanks, I'm not sure about the last bit. I think it's fine as is...

Edit:

Okay, I've made the changes listed to the Taunt class ability. I've also edited the Acrobatics ability to make a number of things more certain.

[Cadian 9th]

I'll reiterate. Don't cap it to level PLZ. Monk and Ninja don't, why should Swashbuckler? It just annoys level 1 people. And annoys people taking it to 20 (or TIT20) and annoys mulitclassers. Besides, multiclassing isn't something to be avoided. Swashbuckler is slightly better as a Dip cos you get your attack and damage boosted by 1 stat (or two, if you wish), but please, don't cap it at level. My oppinion...
Dante

[Temotei]

Personally, I'd switch the damage and attack bonuses from Intelligence/Charisma. Attack bonuses, when equal in amount to damage bonuses, are better than said damage bonuses (generally).

[Samm]

Personally, I'd switch the damage and attack bonuses from Intelligence/Charisma. Attack bonuses, when equal in amount to damage bonuses, are better than said damage bonuses (generally).

Really? I'm not sure of that, it seems slightly counter-intuitive, I don't think I've seen it before...

[Temotei]

Really? I'm not sure of that, it seems slightly counter-intuitive, I don't think I've seen it before...

Attack bonuses come in smaller amounts than damage bonuses in nearly every case. Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization (and their "Greater" counterparts) are examples (regardless of their status as suboptimal feats).

Weapon enchantments seem to gravitate that way as well. Enchanting a weapon tends to increase your damage (bane, flaming, frost, shock, etc.) more than attack, which is generally left with the enhancement bonus.

I think the idea is that attack bonuses are so easy to come by that they're undervalued in non-optimized environments. Of course, your experiences could differ from mine, since every campaign and party experience is different.

[Holocron Coder]

Two things:

1) Move the acrobatics bonus to level 2. Little less front-loading, plus, since the ability rounds down, getting at 1st level does nothing.

2) In the vein of how you normally receive larger damage bonuses than attack bonuses (normally in a 2-to-1 ratio, see Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization), how about when you get the damage bonus from the ability, add both Intelligence and Charisma to the damage? So, that'd be MAX(Intelligence, Charisma) to attack and ADD(Intelligence, Charisma) to damage.

EDIT: O yes, and otherwise, love the class :smallbiggrin: May have to bookmark this... :smallcool:

[Temotei]

1) Move the acrobatics bonus to level 2. Little less front-loading, plus, since the ability rounds down, getting at 1st level does nothing.

I'd say (minimum 1), but putting it at 2nd level is a sound choice.


2) In the vein of how you normally receive larger damage bonuses than attack bonuses (normally in a 2-to-1 ratio, see Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization), how about when you get the damage bonus from the ability, add both Intelligence and Charisma to the damage? So, that'd be MAX(Intelligence, Charisma) to attack and ADD(Intelligence, Charisma) to damage.

Oh, boy. :smallamused:

[Jolee]

I think Swashbuckler Strike should be limited by level. I think multiclassing is fine in the game but dipping should be avoided as it implies that a class doesn't offer all the abilities it should. If mildly optimisised rogues are putting 10s in dex and pumping Int then taking a level of this class then there's a mild problem. [/stating my biases and opinions]

As mentioned earlier, capping the level solves the perceived greviance with multiclassing, but how does this affect single classes characters? Assuming a 16 (+3) to 20 (+5) for starting Int and or Cha (low to mild optimisation), a swashbuckler has 3 to 5 levels to complete before gaining their full bonus. Since the bonus is distributed evenly I don't think it'll be a big deal at level 3 or 4 since they've pretty much earned most of the bonus by then, and below level 3 the game is more or less binary anyways.


If you want, maybe you could include the option to remove the cap as a feat, that way the cost is essentially the same as weapon finess, namely one feat. You can even use weapon finess as the feat, just include a clause in Swashbuckler Strike that says that characters who have the weapon finess feat can add their full bonus regardless of level.

[Samm]

Everyone seems to be split on whether to place in a cap for Swashbuckler strike. I don't really know. I'm going to leave it as is for now.

I'm going to leave Acrobatics at level 1. That makes level 2 very feature heavy, with somewhere around 3 class features. It does nothing at level 1, so moving it wouldn't really change anything. Also, things like Bardic Knack begin at level 1, so, it seems rather normal to do that.

[Cadian 9th]

I think Swashbuckler Strike should be limited by level. I think multiclassing is fine in the game but dipping should be avoided as it implies that a class doesn't offer all the abilities it should. If mildly optimisised rogues are putting 10s in dex and pumping Int then taking a level of this class then there's a mild problem. [/stating my biases and opinions]

If you want, maybe you could include the option to remove the cap as a feat, that way the cost is essentially the same as weapon finess, namely one feat. You can even use weapon finess as the feat, just include a clause in Swashbuckler Strike that says that characters who have the weapon finess feat can add their full bonus regardless of level.

My stance is to let the cheese optimizers do what they want. This class has enough good features to make me want to (as a competitive PvP or NED player) take it to level 4 or 5 at least.

Limiting it to hurt optimizers doesn't acheive that much, though it annoys people who don't max it.

Dante

[Fizban]

That's good to hear chaps. I'm not entirely sure what Fizban means...

I'm not sure what you're not sure about :smallwink:

The first part: I'd like it if the dueling ability counted as sneak attack for use with feats and prestige classes, the same way sudden strike does. However, I recognize that this ability is much more powerful that sneak attack because it is easier to use and still works against targets that would be immune to sneak attack (like oozes and undead). Basically I'm just thinking out loud: the ability is good the way it is and the fact that you can't use it with sneak attack feats is a sort of metagame balancing factor for being able to use it easily.

The second part: I'm trying to think of a way to do the one handed fighter archetype, the fencer who either does not use his offhand, or uses it only for defense. To deal the kind of damage a fighter would with THF and power attack, a rogue needs to use two weapons for extra attacks that can add sneak attack damage. The duelist damage progresses at the same rate as sneak attack, so it stands to reason that Swashbucklers will also need to use two weapons to keep up. So I'm proposing a feat line to let them get the same damage they would with two weapons using only one, a "One Handed Fighting" feat line that gives extra duelist damage when attacking with a single weapon. The catch is that you can't just give out double damage, because having the whole TWF line doesn't mean you're going to hit with twice as many attacks as normal, and it would make other bonus attacks such as those from the haste spell twice as good.

So, a line of feats similar to Two Weapon Fighting that give extra duelist damage if you only attack with one weapon. Some ideas: the first feat gives you +50% on the first attack each round, the second does the same for the second, and so on. Or, once each round after hitting you can roll a second attack at the same bonus as a free action to deal your duelist damage again, and each feat lets you do it once more. Or, the first feat gives you an extra +1d6, the second +2d6, and the third +3d6. Any option should follow the same requirements as Two Weapon Fighting.

Edit: oh, and about the int/cha attack/damage/AC replacers. The thing with the Ninja and Monk is that they only give you wis to AC at 1st level, while the Swashbuckler is getting attack and AC both at 1st level. I'd separate them, and give the player's choice of AC, attack rolls, or damage at 1st, 3rd, and 5th level. That make the class dip friendly since you can get the stat you need the most without giving them all away at first level.

[Holocron Coder]

I'm going to leave Acrobatics at level 1. That makes level 2 very feature heavy, with somewhere around 3 class features. It does nothing at level 1, so moving it wouldn't really change anything. Also, things like Bardic Knack begin at level 1, so, it seems rather normal to do that.

Yes, but there is a difference. Bardic Knowledge specifies that this ability depends on his Bard level, whereas your class only signifies "class level". Thus, anyone that dips 1 level into this class gains that ability, and all its upgrades, forever. However, if you apply it to level 2, it's less likely to be dipped. Alternately, specify that it requires Swashbuckler levels.

Also, it does not address the fact that the bonus is only 1/2 level, and at level 1, this is a bonus of +0; it's meaningless when it is gained and feels like a cheat.

[Samm]

Yes, but there is a difference. Bardic Knowledge specifies that this ability depends on his Bard level, whereas your class only signifies "class level". Thus, anyone that dips 1 level into this class gains that ability, and all its upgrades, forever. However, if you apply it to level 2, it's less likely to be dipped. Alternately, specify that it requires Swashbuckler levels.

Also, it does not address the fact that the bonus is only 1/2 level, and at level 1, this is a bonus of +0; it's meaningless when it is gained and feels like a cheat.

Oh I see what you mean. I might have to change that to Swashbuckler level.

Edit: I've done that.

Also, thanks Fizban for the input, but I don't see anything wrong with having TWF swashbucklers... Then again, keeping one-handers inline with that wouldn't be bad.

Maybe I should specifiy that the Dueling bonus to damage can only be used for one attack a turn. Or would that be a horrible idea?

[Cadian 9th]

Also, thanks Fizban for the input, but I don't see anything wrong with having TWF swashbucklers... Then again, keeping one-handers inline with that wouldn't be bad.

Maybe I should specifiy that the Dueling bonus to damage can only be used for one attack a turn. Or would that be a horrible idea?

I would say no, because it seems strange. Grant one handed duellists a bonus to AC or damage, such as x1.5 dex/etc. Iunno...

It great that we're only pretty much nitpicking now, kudos for a solid and balanced homebrew.

Dante

[Fizban]

Also, thanks Fizban for the input, but I don't see anything wrong with having TWF swashbucklers... Then again, keeping one-handers inline with that wouldn't be bad.

Maybe I should specifiy that the Dueling bonus to damage can only be used for one attack a turn. Or would that be a horrible idea?

Oh there's nothing wrong at all with TWF Swashbucklers. I was just thinking that the term swashbuckler is more likely than the term rogue to make someone want a one handed fencer, so a line of feats to let them do that and be as powerful as a TWFer would be nice.

But limiting duelist to one attack per turn would be very bad: like I said above, rogues can be primary damage dealers only when they have extra attacks, and the duelist damage runs on the same principle. You could probably still make it work but it would be a huge and unneeded nerf.
In some ways it would actually make it look more powerful when stacked on top of the other 1/round abilities (find the gap and swift feinting), but in the end all you have is one attack with a few extra d6's.

I think I'm going to try and write up that one handed fighting feat. I think I could make it general enough to apply to a lot more than just one class ability. I'll link it here when I'm done.

Edit: and done (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8743435#post8743435).

[Samm]

Fizban, I like your feats. I think they're very good, they'll probably make a good combination with the rest of the class.

[Partysan]

Taunt, if using the restrictions of Rage, can make an enemy spellcaster unable to cast any spells for the duration. Nice. I'd call it etremely powerful if not for the will save, that should balance it out, since most casters have plenty of those and will likely make it most of the time. A pity, actually.

[Cadian 9th]

Taunt, if using the restrictions of Rage, can make an enemy spellcaster unable to cast any spells for the duration. Nice. I'd call it etremely powerful if not for the will save, that should balance it out, since most casters have plenty of those and will likely make it most of the time. A pity, actually.

Perhaps Concentration or Sense Motive? Maybe make it that a Reputation check. Swashbuckler should get +swash level to Reputation checks.

Dante

[Samm]

Perhaps Concentration or Sense Motive? Maybe make it that a Reputation check. Swashbuckler should get +swash level to Reputation checks.

Dante

Are you sure? That would make it very powerful. I thought about it, but I think it should stay a will save, this represents the will power required to stop one from getting enraged.

[Cadian 9th]

Up to you. Actually, I think it should be a level/fame check, similar to the variant "Reputation" in UA. Basically, its a challenge/taunting gamut, right? So if the swashbuckler is a high level charasimatic guy whose done several awsome deeds, people are more likely to react to his taunts and challenges.
Dante

[Samm]

Up to you. Actually, I think it should be a level/fame check, similar to the variant "Reputation" in UA. Basically, its a challenge/taunting gamut, right? So if the swashbuckler is a high level charasimatic guy whose done several awsome deeds, people are more likely to react to his taunts and challenges.
Dante

Well, that's actually the case. The DC is determined by Charisma and level.

In fact it's actually DC= 10 + 1/2 Class levels + Charisma Bonus.

[paddyfool]

I like this class, especially the duelling mechanic, and would like to suggest some feats based around that mechanic. Some are also intended to differentiate between Cha-based and Int-based swashbucklers. PEACH:

Flashy duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Cha 13+
When you hit an opponent to whom you may apply duelling damage, you may sacrifice up any number of duelling damage die up to your Cha modifier for an untyped bonus to Charisma-based skill checks of +1 per die sacrificed for the duration of this encounter. Multiple bonuses gained in this way do not stack; instead, the highest applies.

Intrepid duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Cha 15+
You may apply your Cha modifier in place of any other base statistic to all saves made while able to apply duelling damage. (This is the weakest of them, I think... suggestions?)

Canny duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Int 13+
When you hit an opponent to whom you may apply duelling damage, you may sacrifice up any number of duelling damage die up to your Int modifier for an untyped bonus to AC of +1 per die sacrificed for the duration of this encounter. Multiple bonuses gained in this way do not stack; instead, the highest applies. (Not sure about this... especially when you already have improved combat expertise. Alternatives?)

Expert duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Int 15+
You may apply your Int in place of any other base statistic to all opposed rolls made against any one enemy to whom you may apply duelling damage. (Trip, Disarm, Sunder, Overrun, etc.)

Focused duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; BAB +5
You may still deal duelling damage with a finesse weapon against a single adjacent opponent while adjacent to other opponents with a BAB less than your own BAB-3.

Versatile duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; BAB +15, Focused duellist
You may still deal duelling damage with a finesse weapon against up to two adjacent opponents while adjacent to other opponents with a BAB less than your own.

Psychic duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; able to manifest as a level 1 psion or wilder.
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in psion or wilder for duelling damage and manifester level.

Arcane duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; able to cast as a level 1 wizard or sorceror.
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in wizard or sorceror for duelling damage and caster level.

Devoted duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; able to cast as a level 1 cleric, or smite evil class ability
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in cleric or paladin for duelling damage, caster level, smite evil and lay on hands

Primal duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; Wild Empathy class ability
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in Ranger, Barbarian, or Druid for duelling damage, caster level, the animal companion's progression and the Rage class ability. (OK, this is getting a little silly... just one more).

The concept of a multiclass swashbuckler/druid, swashbuckler/ranger, or swashbuckler/barb seems a long way from a natural fit... probably best, if anything, to have a "primal swashbuckler" class variant with more wilderness skills and less social skills, for your Tarzanish types.

Unscrupulous duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; sneak attack class ability
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in Rogue for duelling damage and sneak attack damage. (Could get nasty...)

Unscrupulous duellist (mark two)
Requirements: Duelling class feature; sneak attack class ability
You may use the total of your duelling damage dice and sneak attack damage dice whenever you are eligible to do either. (So a Rogue 10/Swashbuckler 10 has a total bonus of 10d6 damage when eligible either to do duelling damage or a sneak attack)

Skirmishing duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; skirmish ability
You may use the total of your duelling damage dice and skirmish damage dice whenever you are eligible to do either. (Clone of the previous one for Scouts)

[Samm]

I like this class, especially the duelling mechanic, and would like to suggest some feats based around that mechanic. Some are also intended to differentiate between Cha-based and Int-based swashbucklers. PEACH:

Flashy duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Cha 13+
When you hit an opponent to whom you may apply duelling damage, you may sacrifice up any number of duelling damage die up to your Cha modifier for an untyped bonus to Charisma-based skill checks of +1 per die sacrificed for the duration of this encounter. Multiple bonuses gained in this way do not stack; instead, the highest applies.

Intrepid duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Cha 15+
You may apply your Cha modifier in place of any other base statistic to all saves made while able to apply duelling damage. (This is the weakest of them, I think... suggestions?)

Canny duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Int 13+
When you hit an opponent to whom you may apply duelling damage, you may sacrifice up any number of duelling damage die up to your Int modifier for an untyped bonus to AC of +1 per die sacrificed for the duration of this encounter. Multiple bonuses gained in this way do not stack; instead, the highest applies. (Not sure about this... especially when you already have improved combat expertise. Alternatives?)

Expert duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Int 15+
You may apply your Int in place of any other base statistic to all opposed rolls made against any one enemy to whom you may apply duelling damage. (Trip, Disarm, Sunder, Overrun, etc.)

Focused duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; BAB +5
You may still deal duelling damage with a finesse weapon against a single adjacent opponent while adjacent to other opponents with a BAB less than your own BAB-3.

Versatile duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; BAB +15, Focused duellist
You may still deal duelling damage with a finesse weapon against up to two adjacent opponents while adjacent to other opponents with a BAB less than your own.

Psychic duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; able to manifest as a level 1 psion or wilder.
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in psion or wilder for duelling damage and manifester level.

Arcane duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; able to cast as a level 1 wizard or sorceror.
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in wizard or sorceror for duelling damage and caster level.

Devoted duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; able to cast as a level 1 cleric, or smite evil class ability
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in cleric or paladin for duelling damage, caster level, smite evil and lay on hands

Primal duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; Wild Empathy class ability
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in Ranger, Barbarian, or Druid for duelling damage, caster level, the animal companion's progression and the Rage class ability. (OK, this is getting a little silly... just one more).

Unscrupulous duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; sneak attack class ability
Your levels in swashbuckler stack with your levels in Rogue for duelling damage and sneak attack damage. (Could get nasty...)

I like most of these except the last two feats. They're a little crazy, I think you'll agree. Sneak attack and Duelling, that's a little too far.

[paddyfool]

Yeah, that they are. Glad you like them on the whole, though. I'm tempted to do some more for the Int-based and Cha-based duelling feats at some stage... like these:

Reknowned Duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Cha 17+, at least 2 "duellist" feats
Any opponents whom you successfully taunt or hit with an attack to which you may apply duelling damage must make a Will save against 10+your Cha mod+1/2 your Swashbuckler ranks or be shaken. This is a mind-affecting fear effect; standard immunities apply.

Iconic Duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Cha 19+, at least 3 "duellist" feats
You may reroll a miss scored on an attack to which you may apply duelling damage up to 3 times per day. EDIT: This might be a bit weak, actually... maybe 1/round instead?

Master Duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Int 17+, at least 2 "duellist" feats
The size of your duelling dice increases to D8.
EDIT: Once per day, you may reroll all ones on your duelling damage after rolling.

Supreme Duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Int 19+, at least 3 "duellist" feats
In an encounter in which you have made an attack to which you may apply duelling damage, you may force any one opponent to reroll any attack roll made against you. You may use this ability up to 3 times per day. EDIT: See Iconic Duellist. Also, maybe make it only against opponents to whom you can apply duelling damage.

EDIT: Also (because it had to be done):
Epic Duellist
Requirements: Duelling class feature; Versatile Duellist; either Supreme Duellist or Iconic Duellist; BAB 21+
You may apply duelling damage to any attack you make with a finesse weapon.

[Fizban]

I'd prefer...

Swooning Duelist
Prerequisites: Duelist +1d6, cannot be immune to charm effects.
Benefit: You deal +1 point of damage per die when using your duelist ability, but you also take a -2 penalty against charm efects.

Direct ripoff of Craven? Yes. Not sure if charm is a big enough weakness, but compulsion and death seemed too painful.

[DragoonWraith]

The biggest problem with that is the requirement - not being immune to Charm effects means not being immune to Mind-Affecting effects, and that's a huge vulnerability. I wouldn't take it.

[paddyfool]

Which was why my Craven clone (Master Duellist) only had feat & stat prereqs. (xd8 averages to the same as xd6+x; it's just more satisfying to roll, assuming you have enough d8s handy, and has a slightly greater chance of being very low or very high).

[Fizban]

Which was why my Craven clone (Master Duellist) only had feat & stat prereqs. (xd8 averages to the same as xd6+x; it's just more satisfying to roll, assuming you have enough d8s handy, and has a slightly greater chance of being very low or very high).

Actually changing the dice to d8's is less than giving +1/level. It's +1/die, and the dice are gained at 1/2 levels, so it's actually +1/2 levels. And it doesn't increase if you stop gaining duelist damage by multiclassing out. There's a similar feat for sneak attack damage and it's usually dismissed thanks to craven.

Craven gives you +1/level even if you switch classes. When you take the average of 1d6, you get 3.5, and when you knock off the .5 in favor of reliability you get 3. So Craven effectively gives you an extra die of sneak attack for every three character levels, that stacks with sneak attack gained from class levels. Increasing the size of dice you already have does not compare.


The biggest problem with that is the requirement - not being immune to Charm effects means not being immune to Mind-Affecting effects, and that's a huge vulnerability. I wouldn't take it.

The Fear spell has the mind-affecting descriptor too, so if immunity to mind-affecting spells shuts down Swooning Duelist, then it shut down Craven just as hard. Of course, fear and charm are separate descriptors from mind-affecting, so immunity to mind-affecting spells wouldn't turn off the feat anyway.

[paddyfool]

Shows me up - I thought Craven was +1 per die, not per level. Whoops.

[Cadian 9th]

I really Really like the Manifster level stacking, though lol:

Dancing Duellist
Pre-Reqs: Swashbuckler Strike, Perform 4 ranks, Dex 15.
When you strike an opponent, make a perform (dance) check against a DC = to 10+targets wisdom modifier+Sense Motive ranks. If you succed, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from that foe for moving out of their threatened area.

Dante

[Samm]

I like most of these feats, I think I might make the Reknowned Duellist feat a class feature. Should it be done?

I like dancing duellist, but shouldn't that be an opposed check?

[paddyfool]

I like most of these feats, I think I might make the Reknowned Duellist feat a class feature. Should it be done?

It's your class... but you've given me an alternative idea. What if you filled the two dead levels with "bonus feat: any duellist feat or fighter feat"?

EDIT: Please see changes to Unscrupulous Duellist (nerfed) and Master Duellist (boosted), removal of Primal Duellist, and addition of Skirmishing Duellist above.

[Cadian 9th]

Yeah, but opposed checks for every single attack (TWF + Full base etc) slows down play a bit :smallbiggrin:

Dante

[Samm]

I really like renowned duellist. I think it should fill the dead level at 13th level. Is that a good idea.

Also, Dante, I don't think that making Dancing Duellist an opposed check would be that much of a hassle. I mean how often are you likely to move out of combat during a fight?

[Cadian 9th]

Yeah, up to you. Until I finish Complete Adept and make the Wardancer base class, it won't be easy. An opposed check would be cool.

Dante

[Samm]

Okay, here's my rewrite of Dancing Duellist:



Dancing Duellist
Pre-Reqs: Swashbuckler Strike, Perform 4 ranks, Dex 15.
When you strike an opponent, make an opposed perform (dance) check against an opponents sense motive check. If you succed, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from that foe for moving out of their threatened area.


Is that okay?

Edit: I'm adding in Renowned Duellist as a class feature. Thank-you Paddy Fool.

Edit 2: I've added in Renowned Duellist as a class feature, I've changed its title to Renowned Duelling.

[Maren]

For Renowned Duelling, it seems like it should have a restriction that once a creature has saved against it, it can't be affected again for 24 hours. (Similar to other fear-causing abilities).

Otherwise, it looks great!

Cheers,

[Samm]

For Renowned Duelling, it seems like it should have a restriction that once a creature has saved against it, it can't be affected again for 24 hours. (Similar to other fear-causing abilities).

Otherwise, it looks great!

Cheers,

Okay, that's fair I suppose. I'll add it in soon.

[cd4]

I was directed here and spotted a couple of mistakes:

The In The Gap ability says you can make an attack an attack and ignore there armour bonus.

an attack an attack?

The other one is that you don't mention where to find Adaptable Flanker and Vexing Flanker feats.

[Cadian 9th]

I was directed here and spotted a couple of mistakes:

The In The Gap ability says you can make an attack an attack and ignore there armour bonus.

an attack an attack?

The other one is that you don't mention where to find Adaptable Flanker and Vexing Flanker feats.

Well, I think you can work that out for yourself, cd4.

Vexing Flanker? Adaptable Flanker? Both from Player's Handbook 2.
What tier do you put this at? :smallsmile:

Dante

[Samm]

I was directed here and spotted a couple of mistakes:

The In The Gap ability says you can make an attack an attack and ignore there armour bonus.

an attack an attack?


Fixed. The two feats I mentioned were from the PHB 2 as Dante said.

[sariss_eldariss]

Nice one samm,

great class im also defo gonna allow the players to try this one out,
i do have one major major gripe.

i see no bonuses to court the opposite sex. none, no bonuses to help the swashbuckler do what he/she does best. :smallbiggrin: all joking asisde swashbucklers are something that all dnd campaigns need...especially ones heavy with paladins...someone has to make their life interesting

keep up the good work mate

[sariss_eldariss]

A fleshe is French for flash, as in flash attack. It is a lunge where the back leg crosses the front foot increasing the speed and distance of a lunge.

hi just wanted to clear up, i believe the term you are reffering to is fleche which is sourced from the french for arrow, as when executed properly the moment of impact happens as the fencer has his lead foot off the floor and can resemble a somewhat abstract arrow, and as you so correctly pointed out it is one of the "cross step" moves in fencing....and one of the most spectacular.

[Samm]

Nice one samm,

great class im also defo gonna allow the players to try this one out,
i do have one major major gripe.

i see no bonuses to court the opposite sex. none, no bonuses to help the swashbuckler do what he/she does best. :smallbiggrin: all joking asisde swashbucklers are something that all dnd campaigns need...especially ones heavy with paladins...someone has to make their life interesting

keep up the good work mate

Thanks, I'm glad to hear that from you. I feel like this was probably my best homebrew so far. The others, they're in my mind, not quite as good.

[Aldanoth]

Just for clarification, do bows qualify as finesse weapons for these abilities?

[Samm]

Just for clarification, do bows qualify as finesse weapons for these abilities?

I think not. I don't like the image of a ranged swashbuckler. And his duelling doesn't work without being adjacent to an enemy.

[Cadian 9th]

Unscrupulous duellist is crazy. It allows you to Sneak attack invisible opponents, among other things. It lets you sneak attack undead, constructs and the like. Furthermore, it allows you to apply Ranged Sneak attack to melee, and also lets you do sneak attacks in silly situations.

[Samm]

Unscrupulous duellist is crazy. It allows you to Sneak attack invisible opponents, among other things. It lets you sneak attack undead, constructs and the like. Furthermore, it allows you to apply Ranged Sneak attack to melee, and also lets you do sneak attacks in silly situations.

Yeah it is a big boost to damage, and it makes a rogue/swashy combo a lot better. Should I remove it?

[Cadian 9th]

No, no, it's not really a boost to damage. It just removes all limits on sneak attack, and makes it a straight damage boost.

Don't remove it, but make it harder to do, and clarify wether you can somehow strike invisible targets/suddenly kill golems.

[Samm]

No, no, it's not really a boost to damage. It just removes all limits on sneak attack, and makes it a straight damage boost.

Don't remove it, but make it harder to do, and clarify wether you can somehow strike invisible targets/suddenly kill golems.

I'd consider it to be a large damage boost if you're playing a rogue/swashy build. I could add in a clause that doesn't allow the bonus SA damage to apply to creatures that would be unseak-attackable ie. immune to crits, invisible etc. The dueling damage would still apply though. Would that be a good solution?

[Cadian 9th]

I guess. That's good enough. :smallsmile:

[Samm]

I guess. That's good enough. :smallsmile:

I edited that into the OP.

[Psyborg]

Improved Parry, on the table for level 9, isn't described, explained, or even mentioned anywhere else. What does it do?

[Samm]

Improved Parry, on the table for level 9, isn't described, explained, or even mentioned anywhere else. What does it do?

Good point. I'll add in an entry.

Edit: Added. I doubled the amount of times Parry can be used per turn, making it 2. Cha or Int Mod seems a little too high.

[Cadian 9th]

Good point. I'll add in an entry.

Edit: Added. I doubled the amount of times Parry can be used per turn, making it 2. Cha or Int Mod seems a little too high.

Woah, having been playtesting it, I'd say that's a bad idea. With Stat to AC, armor, dex focus and skills, Swashbuckler only really gets hit once or twice, at most. Negating more attacks makes it...

Contrast with Wall of Blades, from ToB. That is GOLD for warblades. You already have it 1/round, which is much better, and it's a non action, so it's super awesome. Twice is pushing it.

[Samm]

Woah, having been playtesting it, I'd say that's a bad idea. With Stat to AC, armor, dex focus and skills, Swashbuckler only really gets hit once or twice, at most. Negating more attacks makes it...

Contrast with Wall of Blades, from ToB. That is GOLD for warblades. You already have it 1/round, which is much better, and it's a non action, so it's super awesome. Twice is pushing it.

No, sorry, I added improved Parry, which doubled the amount of times Parry could be used. It is an improvement that kicks in at 9th level. Should I remove it?

[paddyfool]

Unscrupulous duellist is crazy. It allows you to Sneak attack invisible opponents, among other things. It lets you sneak attack undead, constructs and the like. Furthermore, it allows you to apply Ranged Sneak attack to melee, and also lets you do sneak attacks in silly situations.

On the other hand, this ability will only apply while "adjacent to only one enemy and wielding a finesse weapon". So as originally written, you could do your sneak attack damage to a construct with this feat, but only under the above conditions (i.e., when it would count as duelling damage instead). However, I can see the need to drop this, as it makes swash a bit too dippable. Now, as we're changing this to write in some of the original limits, should we do something similar to skirmishing duellist?

I've got two suggestions to add: give them a bonus "duellist" or Fighter feat of their choice at 19th level (it's not much of a boost, at that power level, but it makes the level a little more interesting to get) and add in a further feat in the charismatic duellist feat tree to replace Renowned Duellist:

Infuriating Duellist:
Requirements: Duelling class feature, Cha 17+, at least 2 "duellist" feats
The DCs from Taunt and Renowned Duelling increase by 2, and any target you taunt successfully must attack the swashbuckler with their ranged or melee attacks (or spells or special attacks) in preference over other available targets.

(It's a blatant bit of stealing from the Knight class, but it fits so well).

[Samm]

Thanks paddyfool. I like that feat. I think if we're going to do feats, they should come regularly. Doing so would make improve the power of this class quite a bit. However, it's already quite powerful as it is, and hence I don't want to make it too powerful.

Edit: Added Infuriating Duellist to the first page.

[Cadian 9th]

No, sorry, I added improved Parry, which doubled the amount of times Parry could be used. It is an improvement that kicks in at 9th level. Should I remove it?

Personally, I think that Parry in and off itself is too good. I'd suggest making it only apply with defensive fighting/combat expertise, perhaps, but that just means you turtle too well.

I think so. Warblade gets this an option, has to ready it and effectively can only use it every few rounds. And he's taking an immediate action, which is significant.


On the other hand, this ability will only apply while "adjacent to only one enemy and wielding a finesse weapon". So as originally written, you could do your sneak attack damage to a construct with this feat, but only under the above conditions (i.e., when it would count as duelling damage instead). However, I can see the need to drop this, as it makes swash a bit too dippable. Now, as we're changing this to write in some of the original limits, should we do something similar to skirmishing duellist?


Being adjacent to only one enemy comes up a lot more than some would think - it's very easy with tumble and skill bonuses to get adjacent to only one enemy. Furthermore, if you can fly, or climb, it works.

My complaint was directed at an earlier version of the feat, which Samm has fixed completely. It's good now. :smallsmile:

[Samm]

Personally, I think that Parry in and off itself is too good. I'd suggest making it only apply with defensive fighting/combat expertise, perhaps, but that just means you turtle too well.

I think so. Warblade gets this an option, has to ready it and effectively can only use it every few rounds. And he's taking an immediate action, which is significant.

Right, I'll remove Improved Parry then and make Parry cost an immediate action.

[chando]

If immediate/swift actions worked as they do in 4th edition (you get one immediate AND one minor every round) I'd say ok to parry being one. But every time you use parry, you lose your swift action next round, that means no feinting or tauting that round. And parry is something a swashbuckler should be able to do everyround.

I mean, "meleers don't get nice things" aside, if he can negate one attack (and much later, only if you go single-class for quite a while, two) he might maybe go up against a melee monster of equivalent CR and have a more or less 50% chance of beating it. Or at least not friking dieing in the fisrt round. He does have to stand there and be adjacent to the guy, why can't he parry one or two attacks? we got pouncing lions with five and hydras with up to 10 attacks a round, c'mon!

And Parry is still a opposed roll, its not even a "you negate the attack, period". You can still roll bad while your oponent rolls high even if both of your "to hit" bonueses, and you can still use the ability when your enemy would have missed your AC anyway, so you just used your action on nothing.

I say make it use a opportunity attack action and only once per round when he gets it. That way if he uses robilar gambit/karmic strike to gain more attacks (he can do fine having a good AC, using combat expertise, etc) he has to give up one of those attacks to do so. Alternatively, if he uses parry and don't have combat reflexes, spellcasters can cast with impunity and/or get away, and anyone can get away after attacking him, negating him the dueling bonus or at least making he work more for it.

I would like it to improve later on, but using a opportunity attack action it would riquire him to have the combat reflexes feat to use the improved feature. and needing to use a feat just to use a feature sucks, even if its a good feat. Maybe something like this?:

Improved Parry: At the Xth level, a swashbuckler gains the ability to make one additional Attack of Opportunity each round. Additionally, he can use his parry ability two times per round instead, each time using up one of his attacks of opportunity. If the swashbuckler has or later gains the Combat Reflexes feat, he add the attack of opportunity from this ability to the number of attacks of opportunity he can do each round, but he still can only use the parry ability no more than twice per round.

that way he can negate one attack and still have an AoO or try to negate two. Or maybe just make his first parry a free action and his second one an attack of opportunity action, limiting it to twice a round, to have about the same result, without all the combat reflex wording.
(but it probably could have some words about "if he gets more attacks of opportunity he still can only do once" in the fisrt parry. maybe on improved too, to be clear. Kinda like the opportunistic rogue special ability has)

Man, i write too much. Alright, great class all in all. Acrobatics should probably be a level 2 ability, since it only comes into play after that level.

[Cadian 9th]

Good idea putting parry as an immediate action. Limits him a little.

Also, Parry can be used to deflect rays. More reason for it to be an immediate action, methinks.

Chando, the thing is that the swashbuckler already has a high AC, higher than most tanks, decent HP, and can cancel one attack/round that actually hits him. This wouldn't be so bad if he was meant to be a defensive character, but the same stats that drive your AC are what goes to attack and damage, and he already has bonus damage dice. Furthermore, he's got feinting, in the gap, taunting, skills in addition to this. This all adds up to a character with awesome defense (especially against spellcaster rays and whatnot), and awesome offence, awesome skills, awesome abilities. I guess it just adds a small limit to stop you from doing everything at once.

[Cipher Stars]

I'm pretty sure you can't have a BAB of 21.
In epic levels you don't gain BAB anymore, just modifiers and the like. (otherwise Epic characters could have a tons of attacks in a turn which would slow game a lot.)
This may have already been covered, I don't intend to read alllllll the replies. But just saying.

[Cadian 9th]

I'm pretty sure you can't have a BAB of 21.
In epic levels you don't gain BAB anymore, just modifiers and the like. (otherwise Epic characters could have a tons of attacks in a turn which would slow game a lot.)
This may have already been covered, I don't intend to read alllllll the replies. But just saying.

Not sure what this is in response to, but Ba actually does increase after 20th level, it just does't increase normally and doesn't grant iterative attacks. So your 30th level fighter with "BA +20" and EBA +10, can power attack for 30, and can affect 30 targets with an ability that lets him target as many targets as his base attack modifier.

Also, Samm, after playtesting and observing people's use of this class in the Tower, for example, it's come to light that's its a tad too powerful, especially as a dip. I'd suggest average base attack, perhaps, and some kind of lowering of the bonuses at first level - such as max double class level for AC or so. Additionally, perhaps move the insightful strike to the precision damage category, however this is a big nerf, so perhaps some additional limits on its use.

[Samm]

Not sure what this is in response to, but Ba actually does increase after 20th level, it just does't increase normally and doesn't grant iterative attacks. So your 30th level fighter with "BA +20" and EBA +10, can power attack for 30, and can affect 30 targets with an ability that lets him target as many targets as his base attack modifier.

Also, Samm, after playtesting and observing people's use of this class in the Tower, for example, it's come to light that's its a tad too powerful, especially as a dip. I'd suggest average base attack, perhaps, and some kind of lowering of the bonuses at first level - such as max double class level for AC or so. Additionally, perhaps move the insightful strike to the precision damage category, however this is a big nerf, so perhaps some additional limits on its use.

Okay. That sounds reasonable. I think he gets enough attack bonus without Full BAB, and I will place a limit on his boost to AC.

I've chosen the limit as +1 class level for the AC bonus, because I think 2x his class level scales too quickly.

As for insightful strike I've limited it to creatures vulnerable to critical hits.

[Cadian 9th]

Okay. That sounds reasonable. I think he gets enough attack bonus without Full BAB, and I will place a limit on his boost to AC.

I've chosen the limit as +1 class level for the AC bonus, because I think 2x his class level scales too quickly.

As for insightful strike I've limited it to creatures vulnerable to critical hits.

+1/class level? I'll never take this class... :smallsigh:

Warblade gets away with that for reflex saves, because he has maneuvers and a bigger HD, full base attack and more. But, it's your class.

[Cipher Stars]

Not sure what this is in response to, but Ba actually does increase after 20th level, it just does't increase normally and doesn't grant iterative attacks. So your 30th level fighter with "BA +20" and EBA +10, can power attack for 30, and can affect 30 targets with an ability that lets him target as many targets as his base attack modifier.


... ? That flew over my head. I'm more magic systems and such.... I just know the Base Attack Bonus isn't something that increases itself into the epic levels. Just getting bonuses and modifiers to existing scores from good abilities or other effects I suppose...
So the BASE attack bonus wouldn't be 21+. would it?

[Cadian 9th]

... ? That flew over my head. I'm more magic systems and such.... I just know the Base Attack Bonus isn't something that increases itself into the epic levels. Just getting bonuses and modifiers to existing scores from good abilities or other effects I suppose...
So the BASE attack bonus wouldn't be 21+. would it?

Technically, yes, the base attack bonus doesn't increase after 20th level. But, the Epic attack bonus counts as base attack bonus for all intents and purposes. (Except additional attacks in a full attack.) For example, manyshot improves as epic base attack increases, as does a characters ability to power attack.

[Roc Ness]

To fill in the void at Level 9, why not Skill Mastery with the Acrobatics skills? You could call it Improved Acrobatics, or something. Just my li'l suggestion.

[Samm]

To fill in the void at Level 9, why not Skill Mastery with the Acrobatics skills? You could call it Improved Acrobatics, or something. Just my li'l suggestion.

Yeah... that sounds alright, but the thing is that the class is already quite powerful. He feels more powerful than my other homebrews, such as the Knight or the Fighter. I know dead levels are bad, but one dead level is not really going to be that large a deal.

[Roc Ness]

Yeah, I guess I see what you mean. Just comparing it to the Foot Knight, the Swashbuckler's AC is potentially just as good, while at the same time thanks to the Swash's duelling damage it could probably outdamage the Foot Knight as well. :smallfrown:

Mmm, I'd post some input on the Foot Knight if it wouldn't be thread necromancy.

[Dralnu]

Great class. Very easy to understand, flavorful, well done in general. I do have criticisms though, as some abilities feel a wee bit too powerful.


Swashbuckler Strike: At 1st level a swashbuckler may use his charisma or intelligence bonus, whichever is higher, to modify his attack rolls in place of strength or (dexterity if using the feat weapon finesse), when weilding a finesse weapon and wearing light or no armour.

Not a "too powerful" complaint, but what's wrong with free Weapon Finesse here? The feat goes with swashbuckler like PB+J.


Taunt: At 2nd level, a swashbuckler may taunt an enemy to enrage him. Pick a target, and as a swift action, taunt them. The target must make a will save (DC= 10 + 1/2 Class levels + Charisma Bonus), and if it fails, it becomes enraged for 3 + your Charisma bonus rounds. They for intents and purposes, act as if they were a barbarian during a rage, except they don't gain any bonus to their ability scores, the restrictions on their actions apply and they take the normal -2 penalty to AC.

So at 2nd level, as a swift action, a swashbuckler may effectively throw a save-or-suck on a spellcaster that basically makes them useless for the rest of the encounter? At any range? And they can do this every round against any number of targets?

You see where I'm going with this here. I'd suggest putting a ranged cap, drop the rage thing, and just give them a -2 AC penalty along with a -2 to their attack bonus too because they're angry and reckless. And let it scale with levels.



Parry: At 4th level, a swashbuckler, as an immediate action, may make an attack roll after an opponent attempts to attack you. If your attack roll beats theirs, the attack is negated. This ability may be used only once per turn and only when using a finesse weapon.

This strikes me as way too strong for such a low level. How about instead, if your attack roll beats theirs, you get an AC bonus equal to half your swashbuckler level against the attack? Then introduce "Improved Parry" at a higher level that does what the original says.


Finally, why the good fortitude save? Swashbucklers sound thematically agile but don't have the fortitude of a barbarian or fighter.


EDIT: Criticisms aside, I really do love the class. The cloak and dagger made me smile. Overall, I would say that this character is a fine combatant in the mid/low tier 3 to upper tier 4, but the beauty is in its simplicity and accessibility. You've also done a wonderful job of letting the swashbuckler multiclass.

I would definitely encourage my players to try this class out if they wanted to play a swashbuckler.

[Halna LeGavilk]

Great class. Very easy to understand, flavorful, well done in general. I do have criticisms though, as some abilities feel a wee bit too powerful.
I don't agree. I feel that martials don't get enough love, and aren't powerful enough.


Not a "too powerful" complaint, but what's wrong with free Weapon Finesse here? The feat goes with swashbuckler like PB+J.
Agreed.


So at 2nd level, as a swift action, a swashbuckler may effectively throw a save-or-suck on a spellcaster that basically makes them useless for the rest of the encounter? At any range? And they can do this every round against any number of targets?

You see where I'm going with this here. I'd suggest putting a ranged cap, drop the rage thing, and just give them a -2 AC penalty along with a -2 to their attack bonus too because they're angry and reckless. And let it scale with levels.
I do agree on a range cap (perhaps 60ft, or however loud the swashbuckler can shout, I'm assuming it's a verbal ability), and think perhaps enemies who are immune to sound-based attacks be immune to this, because it seems to be a verbal ability, which would make it counter-song-able by bards. Everything else I'm fine with.


This strikes me as way too strong for such a low level. How about instead, if your attack roll beats theirs, you get an AC bonus equal to half your swashbuckler level against the attack? Then introduce "Improved Parry" at a higher level that does what the original says.
I agree on the "Improved Parry" bit, however, I think the original should be the same, but at a minus, perhaps -4, or somesuch.


Finally, why the good fortitude save? Swashbucklers sound thematically agile but don't have the fortitude of a barbarian or fighter.
Swashbucklers drink. A lot. :smallbiggrin: