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Os1ris09
2010-06-05, 10:12 PM
So I am now a Warlock 1/Cloistered Cleric 4/Eldritch Disciple 1 character.

All I have to say is there has to be a disclaimer saying "LOWER LEVELS YOUR CHARACTER SUCKS @$$" or something like that because all I can do is "here is your rationed healing for the day"

Prodan
2010-06-05, 10:15 PM
Perhaps you are doing it wrong?

Os1ris09
2010-06-05, 10:19 PM
maybe. I mean as the listed build above I only get 2 invocations (least), 1d6 EB, and 2nd lvl spells.

My invocations are as follows:
See the unseen
Other worldly whipsers

Spells vary from day to day to help party

Feats:
Extend Spell (domain)
Persist Spell (1)
DMM persist (3)
Knowledge Devotion

I mean I am making the build to the best I can and it just sucks. GOOD ROLEPLAYING but so far sucks mechanically..... :smallfrown:

gallagher
2010-06-05, 10:19 PM
So I am now a Warlock 1/Cloistered Cleric 4/Eldritch Disciple 1 character.

All I have to say is there has to be a disclaimer saying "LOWER LEVELS YOUR CHARACTER SUCKS @$$" or something like that because all I can do is "here is your rationed healing for the day"

if you are doing it right, and playing against properly CR'ed encounters, then you should be fine.

maybe you should buff yourself, hit with your ranged attacks, and worry about healing when people actually need it

gallagher
2010-06-05, 10:21 PM
maybe. I mean as the listed build above I only get 2 invocations (least), 1d6 EB, and 2nd lvl spells.

My invocations are as follows:
See the unseen
Other worldly whipsers

Spells vary from day to day to help party

Feats:
Extend Spell (domain)
Persist Spell (1)
DMM persist (3)
Knowledge Devotion

I mean I am making the build to the best I can and it just sucks. GOOD ROLEPLAYING but so far sucks mechanically..... :smallfrown:
you should have picked up summon swarm instead of other worldly whispers. it makes for a hellish warlock, forces casters to concentrate out the wazoo, does damage every round, and IIRC helps with flanking?

spiderwalk is also a good one, you can EB people from the ceiling and the guys that can hurt you the worst at that level cant reach you

Prodan
2010-06-05, 10:22 PM
maybe. I mean as the listed build above I only get 2 invocations (least), 1d6 EB, and 2nd lvl spells.

What second level spells?

Os1ris09
2010-06-05, 10:23 PM
if you are doing it right, and playing against properly CR'ed encounters, then you should be fine.

maybe you should buff yourself, hit with your ranged attacks, and worry about healing when people actually need it

Please see above text. In general I would agree. We are facing anywhere from CR 3-CR 7 monsters and the class works. I just role-play since we have an orge warhulk, a half orc glass cannon and a paladin who just is the party face. OH and a druid who says go wolf go. LOL so obviously warhulk and half orc take most things out before I get a turn...... :smallfrown:

Edit:

Anywhere off this list:


1st Level Spells:
Blessed Aim (Spell Compendium)
Conviction (Spell Compendium)
Divine Favor
Foundation of Stone (Spell Compendium)
Inhibit (Spell Compendium)
Resurgance (Spell Compendium)
Sign (Miniatures Handbook)
Vigor, Lesser (Spell Compendium)

2nd Level Spells:
Aid
Align Weapon
Bull's Strength
Close Wounds (Spell Compendium) 1d4
Dark Way (Spell Compendium)
Divine Insight (Spell Compendium)
Light of Mercuria (Book of Exalted Deeds, Spell Compendium)
Substitute Domain (Complete Champion)

@ Gall: the reason for those invocations is one no one has see invisibility and otherworldly whispers help with knowledge devotion

TroubleBrewing
2010-06-05, 10:31 PM
Could we get a bit more information? Basic equipment loadout, SA's known, ability scores, etc.

Edit: walked away from my computer for a few minutes mid-post. Got totally ninja'd as a result. Serves me right.

Optimystik
2010-06-05, 10:43 PM
Is it too late to get Divine Magician (CM)? If your game goes high enough, you will want the arcane spells to qualify for Mystic Theurge after you finish Eldritch Disciple.

Do you have Zen Archery so you can aim and cast with the same stat?

Finally, let the melee have their fun. You're a caster - your job is to alter reality, not kill monsters. (Though you can do that too, just later.)

Prodan
2010-06-05, 10:44 PM
Why not cast Bear's Endurance on the Glass Cannon?

Maerok
2010-06-05, 10:48 PM
Had you gone true Cleric, you'd at least be able to beat people over the head along with any melee boosting abilities your choice in Warlock invocations could provide.

Eldritch Theurge/Disciple do seem like tough PrCs to get going.

Optimystik
2010-06-05, 10:56 PM
Also OP, what did you pick as your first Gift from ED? If you picked the healbot one, you shouldn't be upset about being a healbot.

PId6
2010-06-05, 11:07 PM
Theurge builds generally suck at low levels; from my experience, Eldritch Disciple is no different. It should get better in a few levels though, since you're essentially gaining 2 levels per 1 that non-theurges gain. You'll feel a dramatic increase in power in 4 levels, after you gain Divine Power, but before that you're going to suffer a bit.

Angrist
2010-06-05, 11:13 PM
Get some good magic items, max out your charisma and UMD, and keep your head down.

Mando Knight
2010-06-05, 11:32 PM
I just role-play since we have an orge warhulk, a half orc glass cannon and a paladin who just is the party face. OH and a druid who says go wolf go.
Well, you can't expect to feel like you're doing much if you're trying to theurge when your allies include a warhulk and a druid. Theurgy is weak at lower levels, and weaker still if you're a cloistered cleric who expects to be using DMM Persist to use Divine Power.

Outside of CoDzilla builds and a few choice spells, Clerics are primarily defensive and support spellcasters, and the Cloistered Cleric slightly more so. Warlocks are basically blaster mages. Mixing the two successfully is tricky.

Os1ris09
2010-06-06, 03:53 AM
@ Grey:

The following is this:
S 16 D 15 Co 16 I 15 W 18 Ch 18

Invocations are see the unseen and otherworldly whispers

Domains are: Planning, Knowledge, Travel

Have the following ranks in skills:
MAX UMD
6 religion
6 the planes
3 nature
6 arcana

@ optimystik: I picked Healing Blast specifically because thats all I was doing besides turning undead......... Since obviously I can't compete with firepower from Warhulk and Glass cannon

Greenish
2010-06-06, 11:22 AM
Wait, how do you have an Ogre warhulk at ECL 6?

Ogres are ECL 6 (4 RHD + 2 LA) to begin with, and then you'd need at least two levels of full BAB classes to qualify for Warhulk.

Murphy80
2010-06-06, 11:53 AM
So I am now a Warlock 1/Cloistered Cleric 4/Eldritch Disciple 1 character.

Theurge builds go through a period when they lose power when compared to other classes, but when they begin to advance in 2 classes at once, they begin to catch up. For the next 9 levels you will advance 2 classes at once. You are on the cusp of starting your climb out of "uselessness", don't give up now.

It also sounds like there might be LA shenanigans going on, Ogre Warhulk indeed.

Pluto
2010-06-06, 01:26 PM
Please see above text. In general I would agree. We are facing anywhere from CR 3-CR 7 monsters and the class works. I just role-play since we have an orge warhulk, a half orc glass cannon and a paladin who just is the party face. OH and a druid who says go wolf go. LOL so obviously warhulk and half orc take most things out before I get a turn...... :smallfrown:

Is everything in this game combat? Because in my experience, the thing that makes prepared casters shine so hard is the way they can deal with non-combat problems (any well-built melee character can kill things, that's their job). If your party can clean up combat challenges without needing help, use your spell slots and invocations known for other things - Summon Monster alone should give you interesting ways to deal with non-combat challenges; add some Divinations and Knowledge skills and you'll be a useful contributor to the party.

If you want to throw a lot of damage dice in combat, Warlock isn't a particularly good choice and your build will take a while to mature (both because it's a theurge and because all your feats are dedicated to DMM Persist, which needs either lots of turning attempts or higher-level spells to really take the spotlight).

Os1ris09
2010-06-06, 01:56 PM
@ Greenish: To explain the orge warhulk we were attacking this orc outpost that had orges with them. They have an encampment we were sent to destroy inside some forest and we wanted to gain a foothold so we went after this place. So we basically obliterate to bits with the exception of this ogre who had almost OTK'ed me in the face (left me with 1hp). So it surrenders and the party (not including me) decides to take him in and make him a party member. So thats how we got him, he is basically a NPC "PC".

@ Murphy: Thanks for the inspiration. I hope that I will catch up soon enough. It kinda sucks that I am at the very bottom of the party when I read all the builds I can do with this combonation I was like "Its so versatile on how you can use it why not give it a shot" so I did and its been really crappy for 4 weeks of playing..... I won't give up though because the GITP has given me hope that it will get better. :smallbiggrin:

@ Pluto: Here are the invocations that I am going to be using when I hit lvl 20

TO EXPLAIN FURTHER it was houseruled that a PrC that goes to lvl 10 can be taken all the way out. If it was a 5 lvl or anything less than 10 you are not allowed to. Since E.D. is a lvl 10 PrC I will be taking it out my classes to this possibly:

Warlock 1/C-Cleric 4/E.D. 15 with these invocations at the end.

ALL-SEEING EYES
BALEFUL UTTERANCE
CHILLING TENTACLES
DARK FORESIGHT
ELDRITCH CHAIN
ELDRITCH GLAIVE
FELL FLIGHT
SEE THE UNSEEN
UTTERDARK BLAST
VITRIOLIC BLAST