3.5 mundane items

[DNied]

looking for a list of mundane items not listed in the phb, or dmg.

Stuff like spices(salt, pepper, etc.), wool, and other cloths, various livestock, wax, honey, pretty much you name it if it fits the theme.
Trying to find a price guide, and weight's for such stuff.

Running a settler's campaign, and it's just finally become a pain to try to figure everything out on a case by case basis as there's so much stock to consider.

Thanks if any of you have ideas, or know a good site for such!

- D -

[Prodan]

Arms and Equipment Guide?

[Eloi]

looking for a list of mundane items not listed in the phb, or dmg.

Stuff like spices(salt, pepper, etc.), wool, and other cloths, various livestock, wax, honey, pretty much you name it if it fits the theme.
Trying to find a price guide, and weight's for such stuff.

Running a settler's campaign, and it's just finally become a pain to try to figure everything out on a case by case basis as there's so much stock to consider.

Thanks if any of you have ideas, or know a good site for such!

- D -

The reason they are probably not listed is because Clerics can create Food.

[DNied]

Arms and Equipment Guide?

Cool, I'll browse that one right quick.
Anyone else have other suggestions? Would really like to find something fan-made online if possible as that would likely be a good source for chunks of information.

Thanks again!

- D -

[Tetsubo 57]

Some online sources:

http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Equipment.pdf

http://www.adnddownloads.com/equipment.php

http://tao-dnd.blogspot.com/2008/07/equipment-list.html

http://www.robsworld.org/index1.html

[Drakevarg]

I need to get my own copy of the Arms and Equipment Guide in the vaguely near future. This has been a problem for me of late, as I've been trying to guestimate the value of the various items in a peasant's house (knowing the PC code of "If it's not nailed down and on fire, steal it"), but I've been forced to ad hoc the vast majority of it.

For example since, they couldn't be bothered to write anything down for it, I had to rule that mundane books were equivalent to a blank wizard's spell book. Doesn't matter what's written in it, that's how much it's worth. (So a middle class family has about 1500gp worth of books lying around.)

[Tetsubo 57]

I need to get my own copy of the Arms and Equipment Guide in the vaguely near future. This has been a problem for me of late, as I've been trying to guestimate the value of the various items in a peasant's house (knowing the PC code of "If it's not nailed down and on fire, steal it"), but I've been forced to ad hoc the vast majority of it.

For example since, they couldn't be bothered to write anything down for it, I had to rule that mundane books were equivalent to a blank wizard's spell book. Doesn't matter what's written in it, that's how much it's worth. (So a middle class family has about 1500gp worth of books lying around.)

There are other equipment guides out that there might be more useful.

But 1500 gp for a middle class family, in BOOKS? I would expect that maybe, *maybe* in the castle of a Duke or King. But books in the era before printing are expensive and rare. I think a middle class family might own a holy text or two and a single reference book of some kind.

[Ravens_cry]

Considering that in Medieval Europe, the favourite material for writing on was specially prepared fine leather, AKA parchment, and that most D&D worlds don't have the printing press, books would be very expensive in such worlds.

[Drakevarg]

There are other equipment guides out that there might be more useful.

But 1500 gp for a middle class family, in BOOKS? I would expect that maybe, *maybe* in the castle of a Duke or King. But books in the era before printing are expensive and rare. I think a middle class family might own a holy text or two and a single reference book of some kind.

In real medieval times this would make sense; the vast majority of the population was illiterate. Comparatively, in DnD worlds its assumed that unless you're from some sort of nomadic barbarian tribe, that you can read and write any languages you speak fluently. As such, books would be considerably more common.

And this 1500gp in books? Thats only 100 books. I can see more books than that on the shelves within my line of vision.

(As an important note, I'm kinda going for the Elder Scrolls worldview here: if you have more than one room in your house, you can probably afford at least one fully-stocked bookshelf.)

[Tetsubo 57]

In real medieval times this would make sense; the vast majority of the population was illiterate. Comparatively, in DnD worlds its assumed that unless you're from some sort of nomadic barbarian tribe, that you can read and write any languages you speak fluently. As such, books would be considerably more common.

And this 1500gp in books? Thats only 100 books. I can see more books than that on the shelves within my line of vision.

Sure you can. Because you live in an era of mass produced books. A world that has printing presses that can put out *thousands* of copies of a text a day. No such technology exists in any fantasy campaign setting I've ever read. And I own some 60+ feet of shelving spaced loaded with RPG books and boxed sets.

The literacy rates in D&D are absurd. They are higher than in our world. I would never allow them in my campaign. Everyone would default to illiterate.

Humorous side note: I just spelled illiterate incorrectly.

[Ravens_cry]

I believe Eberron has printing presses, as does, nominally, the default Pathfinder setting. One thing I have never seen is the implications of the printing press and magic, specifically scrolls and spellbooks.

[Drakevarg]

Sure you can. Because you live in an era of mass produced books. A world that has printing presses that can put out *thousands* of copies of a text a day. No such technology exists in any fantasy campaign setting I've ever read. And I own some 60+ feet of shelving spaced loaded with RPG books and boxed sets.

Evidently they have a legion of scholars with nothing better to do.


The literacy rates in D&D are absurd. They are higher than in our world. I would never allow them in my campaign. Everyone would default to illiterate.

There is that. I'm mostly sticking the books in there because while I'm mapping out these houses I'm left with a stunning ammount of empty space and bookshelves do the trick quite nicely.

[Tetsubo 57]

I believe Eberron has printing presses, as does, nominally, the default Pathfinder setting. One thing I have never seen is the implications of the printing press and magic, specifically scrolls and spellbooks.

Printing presses help, but such devices are not going to hit the same production levels as our modern era models. They print so fast you can literally not see them move. They are just a blur.

[Drakevarg]

Printing presses help, but such devices are not going to hit the same production levels as our modern era models. They print so fast you can literally not see them move. They are just a blur.

1) Magic.

2) Vastly smaller population.

[Tetsubo 57]

1) Magic.

2) Vastly smaller population.

1) Cool.

2) Then where is the market? Why would there *be* mass market level of books if the population numbers are low? One drives the other. Small population means no driving need for a lot of anything.

[Ravens_cry]

Printing presses help, but such devices are not going to hit the same production levels as our modern era models. They print so fast you can literally not see them move. They are just a blur.
Of course not, but compared to the old write-down-every-damn-word-one letter-at-a-time method, it's greased lightning, driving down the prices of books and making them far more potentially available.

[Drakevarg]

2) Then where is the market? Why would there *be* mass market level of books if the population numbers are low? One drives the other. Small population means no driving need for a lot of anything.

It's simply at a different scale. Especially considering transportation issues. (Assuming for a second that teleportation is not casually available.) Most presses would therefore have a market whose area. is limited to a few hundred miles, at best.

In DnD, where evidently anyone who is actually a member of civilization is literate, that means everyone within that hundred miles is a potential customer. Lets be really arbitrary and say that said market is, oh... twenty thousand people. That's being generous and assuming that there's a decently sized population center nearby. (In similar eras in our world, Rome's population of a million was mind-breakingly massive.)

That's still a pretty hefty market if a) you're using an early-model printing press and b) all of your books have to be delivered by wagon.

Also keep in mind that in such an era there's really not much else to DO with what ever free time you happen to have other than get drunk and make babies.

[Beorn080]

Paper is easy. "Oh look a tree. Fabricate. Oh look, a tree sized pile of paper."

I always thought it was silly to have magic be even somewhat common and not have most goods available to everyone, if not still very expensive.

[Tetsubo 57]

It's simply at a different scale. Especially considering transportation issues. (Assuming for a second that teleportation is not casually available.) Most presses would therefore have a market whose area. is limited to a few hundred miles, at best.

In DnD, where evidently anyone who is actually a member of civilization is literate, that means everyone within that hundred miles is a potential customer. Lets be really arbitrary and say that said market is, oh... twenty thousand people. That's being generous and assuming that there's a decently sized population center nearby. (In similar eras in our world, Rome's population of a million was mind-breakingly massive.)

That's still a pretty hefty market if a) you're using an early-model printing press and b) all of your books have to be delivered by wagon.

Also keep in mind that in such an era there's really not much else to DO with what ever free time you happen to have other than get drunk and make babies.

In that era, anyone that wasn't working 24/7 to stay alive would starve. It is only in the very last few centuries that humans have enjoyed anything known as 'leisure' time.

[Drakevarg]

Paper is easy. "Oh look a tree. Fabricate. Oh look, a tree sized pile of paper."

I always thought it was silly to have magic be even somewhat common and not have most goods available to everyone, if not still very expensive.

1) Why would a wizard waste his time making books for the masses?

2) Fabricate is a 5th level spell. To get it as a service from an NPC would require 450gp per casting at minimum. For an adventurer, this is chump change. For a commoner, this is more than they make in several years.

[Ravens_cry]

Paper is easy. "Oh look a tree. Fabricate. Oh look, a tree sized pile of paper."

I always thought it was silly to have magic be even somewhat common and not have most goods available to everyone, if not still very expensive.
That depends on how common magic is, (PC's usually have a lot of magic, but they are also among the wealthiest people), how common high level magic is, fabricate takes a 9th level spellcaster to cast it once a day, and how much the entrepreneur is willing to spend. By strict RAW it costs 450 gp just to get a spell caster to cast fabricate once. You may very well better off building a paper mill.

[Beorn080]

True, but that was just the first thing I spotted. If it weren't late, I'd think of clever ways to use lvl 1 spells to start a paper revolution.

[Hague]

Yeah, I can just see a room filled with animated quills and levitating pages of paper, parchment or what have you. Of course, it's really the DM's setting so if there are lotsa books, there are lotsa books.

There is this rift. AD&D was intentionally magically barren. Wizards were a rare and difficult class to use/find. In DnD 3.5, magic is everywhere, from dancing lights carnival signage.

As for valuable mundane items, I'd say to just wing it based on already available figures. I mean, you won't find listings for deer antlers and tomatoes. And doesn't Create Food make a foul-tasting paste?

[Drakevarg]

In that era, anyone that wasn't working 24/7 to stay alive would starve. It is only in the very last few centuries that humans have enjoyed anything known as 'leisure' time.

M'brain's being an idiot right now. Care to bring up examples so's I can think of counterpoints? Magic alters alot of factors, after all.


There is this rift. AD&D was intentionally magically barren. Wizards were a rare and difficult class to use/find. In DnD 3.5, magic is everywhere, from dancing lights carnival signage.

Perhaps this is why I've always been disgruntled by 3.5 magic. I was introduced to DnD with AD&D, only being introduced to 3.5 while I was at a party celebrating DnD's 30th Anniversary. And while I never had a problem with magic in AD&D (pretty much everyone in my party was gish and magic was rarely favored over simply hitting the enemy with metal until it stopped moving), DnD magic has always felt ridiculously uber, like in scenarios where I encountered mages that I could've snapped in half over my knee that could nontheless shoot bolts of lightning poperful enough to clear hallways.

[Beorn080]

Yeah, I can just see a room filled with animated quills and levitating pages of paper, parchment or what have you. Of course, it's really the DM's setting so if there are lotsa books, there are lotsa books.

There is this rift. AD&D was intentionally magically barren. Wizards were a rare and difficult class to use/find. In DnD 3.5, magic is everywhere, from dancing lights carnival signage.

As for valuable mundane items, I'd say to just wing it based on already available figures. I mean, you won't find listings for deer antlers and tomatoes. And doesn't Create Food make a foul-tasting paste?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. Something like Mage Hand for the quills and your set, just need paper.

And create food makes a bland paste, not foul. I believe Cardboard is what is used to describe it.

[Tetsubo 57]

M'brain's being an idiot right now. Care to bring up examples so's I can think of counterpoints? Magic alters alot of factors, after all.

Magic does alter a lot of things. But even in a D&D setting, the average person is never going to encounter magic within their own homes. Food production in the pre-industrial era was back-breaking, time-consuming work. If you wanted more than a subsistence level of life you didn't get a lot of 'down' time. It was not all sitting around and breeding.

[gallagher]

Sure you can. Because you live in an era of mass produced books. A world that has printing presses that can put out *thousands* of copies of a text a day. No such technology exists in any fantasy campaign setting I've ever read. And I own some 60+ feet of shelving spaced loaded with RPG books and boxed sets.

The literacy rates in D&D are absurd. They are higher than in our world. I would never allow them in my campaign. Everyone would default to illiterate.

Humorous side note: I just spelled illiterate incorrectly.
they have wizards. i think they could qualify for printing presses with the proper spell selection.

might be a good way to make an honest days pay

[PId6]

Amanuensis is a 0th level spell. If you assume a bunch of Western monks around in monasteries with time on their hands (i.e. Cloistered Clerics), you can have each of them fill their 0th and 1st level slots with these and copy lots of books in short order. A 1st level cleric should have ~5 slots, meaning 12,500 words copied per day without too much effort. A 2nd level cleric has ~7 slots, and can copy 35,000 words per day easily. A 3rd level cleric with 9 slots can copy 67,500 a day.

Who needs printing press when you have magic?

Granted, this is still probably not enough for hundreds of books in people's houses (Elder Scrolls notwithstanding), but the average middle to upper class household should easily be able to afford 20-30 books without too much trouble.

However, with easy access to books, their price also drops. I can't imagine the typical book costing as much as a spellbook when the typical day laborer makes 1 sp per day. Maybe 2-5 gp each, but that's as far as I'd go. Spellbooks likely have minor magic in them to function as they do, and the extra price comes from that. I'm certainly not letting my PCs make off with 1,500 gp worth of items from looting an average clerk or vendor's home.