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Ormur
2010-06-05, 11:59 PM
I've been thinking about incorporating a very powerful dragon in my campaign, not necessarily as an antagonist or even someone the PC's would interact with a lot, more as scenery or background influence. He'd also be pretty far above the PC's CR for quite some time but I've been thinking about the implications. How the indirect effect would appear to the PC's.

Using the terminology from DMG and Cityscape he'd be one of those monstrous power centres in a large city that's a home to the mage guild. He'd be given a share of the taxes for his hoard and advise the mage guild and serve as a deterrence in turn. I imagine it would seem like a cushy position to the dragon that'd naturally consider himself far above the day-to-day politics of those puny humanoids. Collecting gold and information while furthering his own plans or tending to his interests and hobbies.

Let's say the dragon is actually the most powerful creature in the city and has been there for a long time what would his relation to the mage guild and inhabitants be? How would the rulers of the city act, what title would they address him by, what effect could his tastes and schemes have on city life. How would powerful D&D dragons in general interact with the local inhabitants in a more realistic fashion than the typical demands of virgins and waiting in caverns for knights to slay them.

I imagine he'd take a practical view of the matter. He wouldn't want to scare people away by eating them wantonly because that would be bad for business and might possibly unite the inhabitants against him.

IonDragon
2010-06-06, 12:03 AM
Kobold populations would be higher in his town. Gnome populations lower.

BobVosh
2010-06-06, 12:06 AM
I guess the biggest question is this: what color dragon?

And what would you want his motivation to be? Both of those will heavily influence how he interacts with the city.

Marriclay
2010-06-06, 12:33 AM
I guess the biggest question is this: what color dragon?

Exactly! Imagine, if this thing is a gold or silver, it would be like putting a paladin in office - maybe a bit stuck up, but he really does have everybody's best interests at heart. If it's a chaotic good dragon, like brass, essentially they'll be both about having fun and helping people out day-to-day, and would have no qualms screwing with the system to make sure bad people meet justice.

if it's a chaotic evil dragon, like a red, they'll probably be a tyrannical dictator focused on expanding their horde in the most direct way they can - war, taxes, and general killing things for the wicked loot. would actually make a nice employer for dungeon crashing characters. if it's a lawful evil dragon like a green or blue, then it will consolidate its power, build up loyalties and raise the most skilled loyalists to the upper echelons of society, and then attempt to expand their field of influence.

You know, like every other aligned ruler. Just more scaly.

IonDragon
2010-06-06, 12:35 AM
You know, like every other aligned ruler. Just more scaly.

And an affinity for Kobolds. You can't forget about the kobolds.

gallagher
2010-06-06, 12:48 AM
i actually see a dragon who lived so long in a city to be in a human form, and just go from place to place learning everything he can. the biggest advantage that civilization has over a cave or a private dwelling is it has is that it can be a center of knowledge, learning, and heaven forbid, gossip.

a chatty dragon would love all the gossip it could get

Ormur
2010-06-06, 12:52 AM
Ah, well I should perhaps have mentioned that I've pretty much dispensed with strict alignment in my campaign. Morally dragons aren't colour coded for your convenience but this one's red. I imagined that the dragon would be kind of TN or at least appear so outwardly. I was thinking more in a general way of how powerful, intelligent, long-lived and flying scaly creature would behave and the results.

He wouldn't be much interested in interfering with the city. As I said he'd feel day-to-day humanoid politics were beneath him so long as his lair was secure and the money kept flowing. As to motivations I'd appreciate some suggestions. I wanted him to be more of a piece of landscape than a direct plot mover. At most the subject of side-quests that tie into the main plot. But what would a dragon care about and how would he use his city to further his goals?

I've been toying around with this particular dragon being very interested in magic and I was thinking about making him a spell-hoarding one. I guess I was thinking about goals that would be so long term, so secret or so strictly related to other dragons and comparable beings that the PC's wouldn't recognize them. Something akin to Xorvintaal perhaps if you're familiar with that.

Alleine
2010-06-06, 04:25 AM
A spellhoarding dragon might be quite chummy with a mages guild, and may even rule over it in a sense. He'd probably have set up draconic minions or kobolds in positions of power within a guild to supply him with a steady stream of whatever magics he wants but doesn't want to bother spending time on.

I always imagined dragons as being fairly aloof. They consider themselves superior so they don't bother with people much. Naturally favored servants(preferably with a touch of dragon to them) would be allowed limited access to the dragon himself, and may even be allowed to say portions of his true name. He could always act through minions as opposed to actually interacting with actual people. Of course having the ability to turn into a human, what better way to create draconic servants than by wooing unsuspecting ladies of the town and then waiting for the kid to mature? :smallwink:
Plus forays into the city while disguised could definitely get him to know what was going on a little better so he could arrange to have the right things happen.

Melayl
2010-06-06, 10:06 AM
In my opinion, a (highly) intelligent and powerful (and greedy) being like a dragon would, in this case, try to make the populace a prosperous as possible. After all, more money in the society means more money coming to him through taxes.

While he wouldn't exert himself a whole lot, but he would be likely to share knowledge that would lead to making things easier for the people, and use small magics of his own to do the same (and the occasional large magic). Knowledge of things like agriculture, medicine, craft, etc.

A society that can take care of their basic needs with less work in less time has more time to enjoy the "finer things" in life, and more desire to have such things. Thus, they become more rich (and so does the dragon).

ShadowsGrnEyes
2010-06-06, 10:45 AM
I guess the biggest question is this: what color dragon?.

Right there I think is the clincher. . . I strongly advise you look at Steel dragons. . . they're very big on people witout being too paladinish like gold or silver. . .

Beorn080
2010-06-06, 01:25 PM
In my opinion, a (highly) intelligent and powerful (and greedy) being like a dragon would, in this case, try to make the populace a prosperous as possible. After all, more money in the society means more money coming to him through taxes.

While he wouldn't exert himself a whole lot, but he would be likely to share knowledge that would lead to making things easier for the people, and use small magics of his own to do the same (and the occasional large magic). Knowledge of things like agriculture, medicine, craft, etc.

A society that can take care of their basic needs with less work in less time has more time to enjoy the "finer things" in life, and more desire to have such things. Thus, they become more rich (and so does the dragon).

Aye. Even an evil dragon can see the benefit of NOT having his city be in state of perpetual famine. Now, he might go about it evilly, say redirecting rivers into his city to provide fish and irrigation, which would devastate any countries down river. Likewise, he might use his shapeshifting to instigate a war between two neighboring countries and sell arms to both sides.

Remember, evil =/= dumb.

hamishspence
2010-06-06, 03:46 PM
In Faerun, one Evil dragon managed to get so revered by the people he ruled, as to get divine powers: Tchazzar The Conqueror (CE Red dragon).

He was masquerading as a human "barbarian hero" type, though.

After being possessed by his deity as an avatar, and later "devoured" by his deity (Tiamat) she has returned him to Faerun in fiendish form- where he now rules a nation (no disguise any more).

Jolee
2010-06-06, 08:46 PM
One way you can make the dragon a powerful civic force with making him/her the mayor is to take the Shadowrun approach and make the dragon(s) owners of the largest businesses, maybe even possessing the monopoly on some common good.

For example, when the PC's are chatting up the local blacksmith they might find that the prices of anything made of iron are a little inflated (even if it's just an extra ~5% it'll still add to the flavour) since the dragon owns a lucrative mining firm, or maybe all of the teleportation and extra-dimensional storage items in Ye Olde Magic Shoppe have been bought out by the dragon's shipping company and the shop is willing to pay double the market price for the rogue's bag of holding.
You can even have one of the dragon's children struggling to learn the ropes of the family business, and he/she might hire the PC's to ensure that he/she makes a good impression on the parent (and yeah, I know you aren't looking for plot hooks, but it's still another example).

Mando Knight
2010-06-06, 08:53 PM
Let's say the dragon is actually the most powerful creature in the city and has been there for a long time what would his relation to the mage guild and inhabitants be? How would the rulers of the city act, what title would they address him by, what effect could his tastes and schemes have on city life. How would powerful D&D dragons in general interact with the local inhabitants in a more realistic fashion than the typical demands of virgins and waiting in caverns for knights to slay them.

However the hells it wants. A dragon would probably view a city that it "owns" as a kind of treasure, and the people there as interesting little pets.

Runestar
2010-06-06, 09:20 PM
I like the idea of the dragon assuming several different personas to control the various guilds. He regularly pits factions against one another for his own amusement. He isn't really interested in which side wins, so long as it is entertaining to view.

Exemplars of evil has one plot hook involving a blue dragon who is also the tyrant of a desert city.

Kalrik
2010-06-06, 09:39 PM
I'm a fan of having a city dwelling dragon viewing the people of the city as part of it's hoard. It may rule over them in the most benevolent lawful way, or as a tyrannical force to be feard, but in either case, it protects the city with all it's power.

All the reasons have been listed in previous posts. Easy access to magic, reverence from the people of the city, taxes, stake in business, etc...all of it is candy for a powerful being of any allignment.

I played in a game where black dragon had ascended to rulership of an entire country. The country was indeed warlike and rather viscious, but the people worshiped their dragon ruler. He provided the people with a better life than could be expected. Crime wasn't tollerated because it went against order which was law laid down by the dragon himself, therefore, any law breakers were in direct opposition to the dragon...and were usually eaten or killed for sport. Less crime in that country than in any other.

Remember, allignment is a guidline. A lawful good paladin doesn't have to be a nice person. He lives by the law and does good things, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't hesitate to put a young thief to death for stealing from a local merchant if that was the lawful penalty held to everyone in the land. Granted that might be a stretch on the "good" side, but that is subjective.

Hand_of_Vecna
2010-06-06, 10:07 PM
A dragon's influence could lead to a city with architecture and culture totally foreign to medieval European fantasy. Perhaps a lost culture like babylonian.