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View Full Version : Avoid Save Autofail [3.5]



Reinboom
2010-06-06, 05:31 AM
What are some ways to avoid autofailing on a 1 for saves?
More specifically, I'm looking at Will saves primarily for one of my character's. However, a list of this kind of ability in general would be handy. Rerolls, direct avoidance, anything.


The current list:

{table="head"]Name|Source|Type|Other

Dumb Luck|Complete Scoundrel|Feat

Mantle of Second Chances|Magic Item Compendium|12,000gp Item

Impetuous Endurance|Player's Handbook II|Knight L17 Class Feature

Steadfast Determination|Player's Handbook II|Feat|Fort only

Alter Fortune|Player's Handbook II|L3 Brd/Clr/Dru/Sor/Wiz Spell|200 XP cost

Zealous Surge|Tome of Battle|Crusader L3 Class Feature

Aura of Perfect Order|Tome of Battle|L6 Devoted Spirit Stance

Action Before Thought|Tome of Battle|L2 Diamond Mind Maneuver|Reflex only

Mind Over Body|Tome of Battle|L3 Diamond Mind Maneuver|Fort only

Moment of Perfect Mind|Tome of Battle|L1 Diamond Mind Maneuver|Will only

Iron Heart Focus|Tome of Battle|L5 Iron Heart Maneuver

Luck Blade (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#luckBlade)|SRD|22,060gp+ Item

Phaant's Luckstone|Ghostwalk|1,000gp Item|Turns to dust after use

Choose Destiny|Races of Destiny|L9 Destiny Domain Spell

Pride Domain|Spell Compendium|Domain Power

Withstand|Complete Warrior|Kensai L5 Class Feature|Reflex only

Resist Fate|Complete Arcane|Fatespinner L4 Class Feature
[/table]

Prodan
2010-06-06, 05:34 AM
Alter Fortune - 3rd level arcane spell, reroll a 1 as an immediate action. Costs 200 XP

Claudius Maximus
2010-06-06, 05:34 AM
Phaant's Luckstone (if I remember the name right) from Ghostwalk. It's an item.

Adumbration
2010-06-06, 05:37 AM
Pride domain, spell compendium. Reroll all natural 1s for free.

Emmerask
2010-06-06, 05:45 AM
Fatespinner prc - Fickle Finger of Fate and Resist Fate:smallsmile:

Yora
2010-06-06, 05:46 AM
Are such thing really worth getting? To not fail on a 1, you need a bonus 20 higher than the DC, and I don't think these situations come up very often.

Saph
2010-06-06, 05:48 AM
Well, if it's a reroll effect, then you hopefully won't be rolling a 1 on the second one - that's the point. :smallsmile:

senrath
2010-06-06, 05:48 AM
Wait, what? If you have an ability that makes it so a 1 isn't autofail, you just need a modifier that's equal to the (DC - 1), not the (DC + 20).

Yora
2010-06-06, 05:50 AM
Yes. Me fail at math.

But still I think it's not expected to happen that often.

Reinboom
2010-06-06, 05:51 AM
Are such thing really worth getting? To not fail on a 1, you need a bonus 20 higher than the DC, and I don't think these situations come up very often.

They do occur. Especially with the help of stat stacking randomness, like Marshal auras or divine grace.

More significantly are the class features or feats with a significant drawback if a save is failed... but a rather low DC. For example, using Quick Recovery to get (partially) over a Wilder's wild surge enervation issue.


-Edit-
And in my case, I have a character with a 42 Will Save at level 15 and two major class features that rely on me not failing it. :smalltongue:

Saph
2010-06-06, 05:52 AM
Yes. Me fail at math.

But still I think it's not expected to happen that often.

No, no.

You'll still probably fail with a 1 even if a 1 isn't an autofail - that's to be expected.

But if you're rerolling, then you have a 95% chance of not getting a 1. It's just a different way of avoiding the autofail.

Irreverent Fool
2010-06-06, 08:04 AM
I feel that the main reason to get abilities that stop you from auto-failing on a 1, whether they be by reroll or by turning a save into a skill check or what have you, is not to protect your weaker saves, but to protect your strongest saves.

There is a player in my usual group who has notoriously bad luck. He tends to play fighter-types and so his characters generally have good Fortitude saves. Countless times, his characters have been hit with Fortitude-targeting spells only to have him roll a natural 1 and fail. (He would have succeeded even on a 2.) The most recent incident was with an Aboleth, so his orc warblade is running around with mucus for skin and a decanter of endless water in his hat.

The Diamond mind maneuvers have the advantage of ALSO bolstering your weak saves if you pour some points into concentration. Moment of Perfect Mind saved my warblade dozens of times. Rerolls can serve this purpose as well.

RandomLunatic
2010-06-06, 10:20 AM
Steadfast Determination (PHB II) is not a reroll, but it does stop you from auto-failing Fort saves on a 1.

Hague
2010-06-06, 10:38 AM
The knight base class in PHB2 (pg. 28) has the "Impetuous Endurance" class feature at level 17 that allows them to avoid automatic failure on a roll of 1 with any saving throw.

Douglas
2010-06-06, 10:38 AM
Knights get a class feature that negates autofail for all saves, but it comes rather late at level 17 in the class.

Kensai's Withstand ability replaces reflex with concentration, which negates the autofail due to it being a skill check.

Curmudgeon
2010-06-06, 10:41 AM
Pride domain, spell compendium. Reroll all natural 1s, once per die, for free.
Fixed that for you.

Douglas
2010-06-06, 10:44 AM
Choose Destiny lets you roll twice and take better on a lot of things, saves included. It's a little hard to get as a 9th level domain only spell, but it applies to all rolls for 1 round/level, and if you manage to get some Persistent shenanigans too...

Darkfire
2010-06-06, 12:34 PM
The 6th level Devoted Spirit stance Aura of Perfect Order (ToB p57) allows you to 'take 11' once per round on any d20 roll.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-06, 01:15 PM
Choose Destiny lets you roll twice and take better on a lot of things, saves included. It's a little hard to get as a 9th level domain only spell, but it applies to all rolls for 1 round/level, and if you manage to get some Persistent shenanigans too...
Holy... what Domain is that!? That sounds like possibly the most powerful spell to Persist yet...

Ranos
2010-06-06, 01:18 PM
Crusader's Zealous surge lets you reroll a save. Only 1/day though.

Reinboom
2010-06-06, 01:36 PM
Holy... what Domain is that!? That sounds like possibly the most powerful spell to Persist yet...

I've been listing the sources as people find them in the original post.
Destiny Domain from Races of Destiny.


I will add the other couple of maneuvers soon. Thank you all!

2xMachina
2010-06-06, 01:52 PM
It's a 9th lvl spell. That's par for the course really.