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Flail_master
2010-06-06, 04:24 PM
Hey guys, me again, more queries about DM'ing n the such :P

basically, i was thinking of makin one of the main bad guys of my campaign a strange humonoid, sentient creature from an ENTIRELY new plane of existence, we have our own realm we've created so i dont doubt i could do this.
In the sense of that cool wheel diagram thing in one of the core books, where the weird realm where magic is negated closer to the centre is, know how thats a sphere below the other planes?, i would plan to have this one basically completely disjointed from all of them either waaaaay above or below them with a small line connecting them.

basically, it will have its own language and would be a never seen before creature (also requiring homebrewing for this crature, but i shall address this another time) so very mysterious and the such.
i just wanna know whether adding another plane of existence will be difficult/stupid/cool idea, and whether the general idea of this unknown evil business is cool or cliche or stupid.
the idea is that it is even more unknowable and insane than even the far realm! so when they meet the alienist of the campaign, she's terrified by this creature.

of course, please tell me if i should just use the far realm instead as the basis of this creature and just invent a new creature for the far realm...


man that was long, again all help is appreciated and opinions will be accepted as long as its not flaming obv

thanks again :smallbiggrin:

The Glyphstone
2010-06-06, 04:32 PM
If it's just "another plane of existence", then you're better off with a Far Realms entity.

The point of the planes is that each of them embodies the ultimate source of something - fire, water, life, death, dreams, whatever. If you create a new plane, you need to decide what it embodies, why it exists, and why that isn't already covered in one of the existing planes. Being "scarier than the Far Realms" is definitely not a good enough reason to exist, unfortunately - the point of the Far Realms is to be infinitely crazy and un-knowable...even Alienists are scared of the Far Realms, because that's how it rolls.

Flail_master
2010-06-06, 04:35 PM
ah that didnt occur to me, that is true, i will have to read up more on the far realm then... i cant think of what it would embody that hasnt been covered too!
thank ye very much :smallbiggrin:


opinions are still welcome on this idea, i've been trying to think of an underlying plot for a while now and i think i've hit something with this guy! so any kinda advice on the story or what ye think of this is welcome

awa
2010-06-06, 04:41 PM
I'm not sure the far realm is what you want. The far realms not mysterious its unknowable. If you want a creature who's mind set and motivations can be comprehended by a human the far realm is not what you want. The far realm is for creatures who don't even follow the same laws of reality as the rest of the multi verse.

Flail_master
2010-06-06, 04:46 PM
I'm not sure the far realm is what you want. The far realms not mysterious its unknowable. If you want a creature who's mind set and motivations can be comprehended by a human the far realm is not what you want. The far realm is for creatures who don't even follow the same laws of reality as the rest of the multi verse.

ah see thats what im lookin for! mysterious was the wrong word, this guy is wanderin around with a completely unknown goal and doing very insane things :P

also being a creature that incurs a check to see if a PC keeps their sanity if they look at him for too long in essence, i think far realm qualifies :smalltongue:

btw, does anyone know where i can read about the far realm?

Mikeavelli
2010-06-06, 04:51 PM
There's a great deal of existing cosmology in the great ring, and just as much space intentionally left unknown for you to fill it up with your own ideas.

The Far Realm is one of these things, a place "outside" the Multiverse where things don't make sense and Lovecraftian monstrosities call home. Things from that place don't have human motivations, ideals, morals, etc, and nothing more can really be said about it because defining it in more detail defeats the entire point of the Far Realm.

There are also a few other places you could stick a new Realm; Most common is off in the Hinterlands. See, you start at the outlands (Plane of Neutrality, with the Spire sticking up out of it), and you walk towards the edges to where you get to the Great Ring. Now, to actually go from the Great Ring to one of the Planes of belief, you've got to step through a portal (usually located in one of the gate-towns, but not necessarily) - but suppose you just keep walking away from the Spire, past the gate-towns, off the edge of the map.

Nobody really knows what's out there because all the rules imply reality just sorta've starts to break down once you go past it. Could be there's a force of nature more powerful and mysterious than all the other planes that keeps everything inside the Great Ring in, and everything outside the Great Ring out. Could be this thing from another plane found a way to sneak past or break through.

Could be it's a precursor to an invasion force from another reality entirely.

[hr]

There are a bunch of other unexplored areas, the Deep Ethereal is also a good one, and it's where most of the existing canon demiplanes exist. Could be whatever it is is just lost, trying to get home, and the plan to get it home involves the unfortunate death of a large number of the player's friends, loved ones, countrymen, etc.

Astral Plane as well.

There's a fanon thing that Runs on the Rule of threes, thinking that, there's the Astral Plane that connects the Prime and the outer planes. The Ethereal Plane connects the Prime and the Inner planes. Shouldn't there be some kind of transitory plane that connects the outer planes and inner planes? It's been named the Ordial plane, and can have any properties you feel like it having.

All in all the idea of a brand new unexplored plane locked away from the rest of the Multiverse is not a new one - but only in the sense that there are no new ideas anymore - everything has been written about or concieved of in one fashion or another. It's how well you tell the story and how compelling the character you create that makes all the difference.

Flail_master
2010-06-06, 04:58 PM
There's a great deal of existing cosmology in the great ring, and just as much space intentionally left unknown for you to fill it up with your own ideas.

The Far Realm is one of these things, a place "outside" the Multiverse where things don't make sense and Lovecraftian monstrosities call home. Things from that place don't have human motivations, ideals, morals, etc, and nothing more can really be said about it because defining it in more detail defeats the entire point of the Far Realm.

There are also a few other places you could stick a new Realm; Most common is off in the Hinterlands. See, you start at the outlands (Plane of Neutrality, with the Spire sticking up out of it), and you walk towards the edges to where you get to the Great Ring. Now, to actually go from the Great Ring to one of the Planes of belief, you've got to step through a portal (usually located in one of the gate-towns, but not necessarily) - but suppose you just keep walking away from the Spire, past the gate-towns, off the edge of the map.

Nobody really knows what's out there because all the rules imply reality just sorta've starts to break down once you go past it. Could be there's a force of nature more powerful and mysterious than all the other planes that keeps everything inside the Great Ring in, and everything outside the Great Ring out. Could be this thing from another plane found a way to sneak past or break through.

Could be it's a precursor to an invasion force from another reality entirely.

<hr>

There are a bunch of other unexplored areas, the Deep Ethereal is also a good one, and it's where most of the existing canon demiplanes exist. Could be whatever it is is just lost, trying to get home, and the plan to get it home involves the unfortunate death of a large number of the player's friends, loved ones, countrymen, etc.

Astral Plane as well.

There's a fanon thing that Runs on the Rule of threes, thinking that, there's the Astral Plane that connects the Prime and the outer planes. The Ethereal Plane connects the Prime and the Inner planes. Shouldn't there be some kind of transitory plane that connects the outer planes and inner planes? It's been named the Ordial plane, and can have any properties you feel like it having.

All in all the idea of a brand new unexplored plane locked away from the rest of the Multiverse is not a new one - but only in the sense that there are no new ideas anymore - everything has been written about or concieved of in one fashion or another. It's how well you tell the story and how compelling the character you create that makes all the difference.

i agree with your last statements whole heartedly, and thank you very much for your input, its very helpful thankyou :smallbiggrin:

also gives me a few ideas :smallamused:

arguskos
2010-06-06, 04:58 PM
Nobody really knows what's out there because all the rules imply reality just sorta've starts to break down once you go past it.
Actually, this is incorrect. Once you pass the gatetowns, there isn't anything there. You can walk forever, and just not find anything, and when you turn around, the gatetowns are right there. There is text to this effect in the 3rd Ed Manual of the Planes.

However, using Demiplanes, the Deep Etheral/Astral, or one of the Infinite Layers of the Abyss works perfectly for this concept. Also, perhaps the Realm of Dreams.

Keld Denar
2010-06-06, 05:27 PM
There is a fair bit about the Far Realm in Lords of Madness, the suppliment on Aberrations, given that many of the more Lovecraftian Aberrations tend to come from there.

Also, the Far Realm is pretty heavily featured in the Eberron setting with the Daelkyr. A quick read over the ECS and maybe something like Faiths of Eberron might prove insightful.

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-06, 05:36 PM
The Far Realm is basically everything that doesn't (or at least cannot) exist. Making something 'worse' than the Far Realm doesn't really make much sense.

Different, sure. Worse? In what way? You can't get much weirder than the Far Realm.

Mikeavelli
2010-06-06, 05:37 PM
Actually, this is incorrect. Once you pass the gatetowns, there isn't anything there. You can walk forever, and just not find anything, and when you turn around, the gatetowns are right there. There is text to this effect in the 3rd Ed Manual of the Planes.

However, using Demiplanes, the Deep Etheral/Astral, or one of the Infinite Layers of the Abyss works perfectly for this concept. Also, perhaps the Realm of Dreams.

Long-live 2nd Edition Planescape Fluff, you sodding piker.

All sorts of unofficial fluff on the Hinterlands (http://http://www.mimir.net/outlands/hinterlands.shtml)

arguskos
2010-06-06, 05:49 PM
Long-live 2nd Edition Planescape Fluff, you sodding piker.

All sorts of unofficial fluff on the Hinterlands (http://http://www.mimir.net/outlands/hinterlands.shtml)
Oh, shut yer brainbox, you sodding bleeding biter! Yer yappin 'bout da Wheel ta me? Ta ME, a blood on da planes?! And ye dare quote da mimir at meh even! Bah! I's speak da Cant and da Chant longer den ya know, and I's tellin' ya, what lay beyond da gatetowns, tain't ta be messed wit. :smallyuk:

In case you don't speak the cant fluently: I'm an old hand at planeswalking, and yes, I know the old fluff. However, unless you have the time and energy to indulge it, it's easier to use the more accessible Manual of the Planes. Personally, I like the older setting as well, but before you DARE call me a piker, you unhende biter (:P), you better know who you're dealing with.

No offense intended anywhere, of course. Just presented something a bit easier for the OP to handle. ;)