"The Avatar has returned."

[Zevox]

Edit: Official announcement of Avatar: The Legend of Korra can be found here (http://powet.tv/powetblog/2010/07/21/nickelodeon-announces-the-legend-of-korra-sequel-to-the-last-airbender-series/).

Or "shall return," as the case may be. Looks like Avatar: The Last Airbender is getting a successor series.

A fan site I drop in on occasionally apparently got word late last month that Viacom recently trademarked the name for a new Avatar series. Sure enough, a search of the appropriate US government site (http://www.uspto.gov/) (go to "search marks," "free form search," and search for "viacom" - should be among the first few results) reveals no less than three recent trademarks under the name "Nickelodeon Avatar: The Legend of Korra" - one for a TV series by that name, two for just about any kind of merchandise you could imagine for the series.

Of course, this tells us nothing about the new series except the name of the new main character. My first impression was that Korra sounded like a female name, but then I remembered that the first series had several male characters with names ending in "a," such as Sokka and Hakoda, so even that isn't necessarily a safe assumption. Still, it's tough to shake my first impression - that Korra sounds both female and water tribe, so perhaps the new heroine will be Aang's successor as the Avatar, since the water tribe was the next nation in the cycle. But then again, that impression is likely just because Korra shares most of its letters with the beginning and end of Katara's name, so...

Anyway, I was actually half expecting this, since I'd heard the series' creators had been hired by Nickelodeon for another project, but having evidence this concrete for it is still pretty exciting. Too bad it'll probably be a while yet before the show is ready to air - I was curious, so I checked back through Viacom's trademarks, and found one for Avatar: The Last Airbender dating to 2003, two years before the show started airing (well, a year and a half anyway - it was filed in October, and Wikipedia says the show started in February 2005). So the trademark probably doesn't mean we should expect the show anytime soon. Still, it's definitely something to look forward to.

Zevox

[darkblade]

I'm all for more (Not James Cameron's) Avatar, especially since the live action movie is shaping up to be some major fail, but really stalking trademark listings for any potential fandom news is slightly creepy and overshadows the good news to me.

[Comet]

-- but really stalking trademark listings for any potential fandom news is slightly creepy and overshadows the good news to me.

Nothing strange about it, really. It's pretty routine stuff, happens with nearly every large fandom I've bumped into.

This is pretty exciting news. Here's hoping it pulls through,

[Zevox]

I'm all for more (Not James Cameron's) Avatar, especially since the live action movie is shaping up to be some major fail, but really stalking trademark listings for any potential fandom news is slightly creepy and overshadows the good news to me.
*shrugs* Like I said, I found it out from a fan site I drop in on occasionally (this one (http://www.theavatarportal.org/)), and just went to check on it to confirm it. I think the fact that the news was first posted there a few weeks ago ought to be proof enough that I'm not exactly watching things that like that routinely myself. Besides, is it really a surprise that there are some fans out there so obsessed that they'd notice something like that?

Actually, I can recall one other time where I learned about something because the fans actually noticed a trademark as well - the DS remakes of Dragon Quest 5 and 6 were first learned about when Square-Enix filed trademarks for their new English names ("Hand of the Heavenly Bride" and "Realms of Reverie," respectively), since they had never been released in the US before.

Zevox

[thegurullamen]

Also, it's one of the ways the (film & TV) trades get a hold of the information they do. Whenever a studio trademarks something with a built in fanbase, they rush a story, even though they've got a paragraph of material at most.

I wouldn't mind seeing a new show, provided two things. A) Same writers/creators as the previous one. B) Closure on the family arc. And even B is negotiable if the show is as good as its predecessor. (Seriously doubt the same goes for A, however.)

[Zevox]

I wouldn't mind seeing a new show, provided two things. A) Same writers/creators as the previous one. B) Closure on the family arc. And even B is negotiable if the show is as good as its predecessor. (Seriously doubt the same goes for A, however.)
Well, as I said, I heard rumors before that the creators had been hired by Nick for a new project, so I'm assuming that's this. Guess I can't say on the writers beyond them though, but hopefully it's the same guys, yeah.

As for B, I'd imagine that will depend on when the show is set. Sequel? Prequel? Unrelated but same world? How far removed from TLA's events timeline-wise in any event? *shrugs* We won't know until official announcements about the show are made. I'd be right there with you about wanting explanations for Zuko's mother (and a couple of other things TLA left hanging, like Iroh's trip to the spirit world), and maybe they'll do that if the new show is fairly closely related to the first timeline-wise; but if it isn't I wouldn't expect it. And yeah, if it's still as good, I'll be fine with those things remaining a mystery, much as I'd like to know the story behind them.

Zevox

[Lord Seth]

I remember the writers a while ago said they were interested in doing more seasons after the third, but that it'd be about a completely different set of characters, and I think they might have said something about it being a long time after the regular series. (as a random note, if it's about a new Avatar, that means it has to take place a sufficient amount of time in the future for there to be a new Avatar, as there can't be a new one while Aang is alive)

I'm hesitantly excited. I just really hope they learn from the mistakes they made in season three.

[Maximum Zersk]

Here's hoping for a good new series.

I think it makes sense that it'd be about a water tribe avatar. It'd be interesting.

Though I still wonder how far into the future it's going to be. Right after Aang? A hundred years after Aang?

Also, how many Ensemble Darkhorses is this series going to make I wonder. :smalltongue:

[The Glyphstone]

Here's hoping for a good new series.

I think it makes sense that it'd be about a water tribe avatar. It'd be interesting.

Though I still wonder how far into the future it's going to be. Right after Aang? A hundred years after Aang?

Also, how many Ensemble Darkhorses is this series going to make I wonder. :smalltongue:

Or how many Identical Grandsons will be main characters?

[AlterForm]

I can only express my feeling on this in one way:

http://forum.cheatengine.org/files/awesome_face_151.png

[Zevox]

I remember the writers a while ago said they were interested in doing more seasons after the third, but that it'd be about a completely different set of characters, and I think they might have said something about it being a long time after the regular series. (as a random note, if it's about a new Avatar, that means it has to take place a sufficient amount of time in the future for there to be a new Avatar, as there can't be a new one while Aang is alive)
Really? I wasn't aware they'd said anything so explicit. Interesting to know.

And that is true, we know Avatars can live a long time. I believe Kyoshi lived to be over 200, right? Of course, theoretically, they could have a new Avatar shortly (or at least less than the hundred+ years it would theoretically take for Aang to die naturally) after TLA's events if Aang fell victim to some accident or was slain by a foe more powerful than Ozai... but I doubt they'd want to start a new series one a note that depressing.


I'm hesitantly excited. I just really hope they learn from the mistakes they made in season three.
Yeah, agreed. Though I'm optimistic about that - half of my criticisms of that season I think stem from the particular problem that they decided to make the Day of Black Sun a big mid-season event, and I don't think something like that would happen again with an entirely new show. I'd be more worried about the problems displayed in the finale, but with luck those will be avoided as well.


Or how many Identical Grandsons will be main characters?
I really hope we don't get that. If a character or two is a descendant of some of the first's heroes and has some resemblance to one or both, fine, but even there I'd want them to have some very distinct features of their own too, as well as a personality totally independent of their ancestors'. And certainly I wouldn't want a cast full of descendants of TLA's heroes. The first series was very good about making each character unique and interesting - I'd hope the new ones will be as well.

Zevox

[Maximum Zersk]

Or how many Identical Grandsons will be main characters?

Possibly 400 BABIES!!!!

...What? It seems possible to me. :smallconfused:

[Pink]

And that is true, we know Avatars can live a long time. I believe Kyoshi lived to be over 200, right? Of course, theoretically, they could have a new Avatar shortly (or at least less than the hundred+ years it would theoretically take for Aang to die naturally) after TLA's events if Aang fell victim to some accident or was slain by a foe more powerful than Ozai... but I doubt they'd want to start a new series one a note that depressing.

I'm not entirely sure if it's just avatar's that are long-lived in avatar-world. Bumi had to be a minimum of 100, more likely 112, and certainly looked like nothing would put him in the grave for a while. People there live to the maximum age of plot.

[dehro]

meh...I'm just about ready to be massively disappointed by the movie (I'm assuming that said failure will make it so that there will be only one movie made).
I don't think I'm quite ready to be disappointed by a fourth series with a whole new set of characters..
the first avatar (I don't think of them as 3 different series) worked just fine because there was a happy coming together of characters that worked well with and off each other... will the authors be able to come up with a whole new batch of equally intriguing characters?
taking into account that by now we know most of how the avatar-verse works..I fear it would be difficult to stay "fresh, engagin and innovative" without taking a turn for the worse.
but on the other hand..they HAVE done an excellent work on the first story, so I'll wait to see the results before showering insults and explosive runes on them.

[thubby]

so long as it's the original creators I'm willing to be optimistic. I can't think of anything they've been a part of that I actively dislike.
lets just hope they didn't get inflated ego's

[Serpentine]

Possibly 400 BABIES!!!!

...What? It seems possible to me. :smallconfused:Do they even have Powerthirst in that world? :smallconfused:

Yay, a new series! I'm cautiously optimistic :smallsmile:

[thorgrim29]

POWERTHIRST IS SO EXTREME IT CAN REVERSE BREAK THE FOURTH WALL AND SPONTANEOUSLY EXIST IN OTHER UNIVERSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I might have to see the first series then, I've been meaning to for a few years now, seems about time.

[Pink]

Do we know that new series would take place in the future? What about the past? To be fair, Aang avatar world is very different from what it used to be, as evidenced constantly by the changes Aang notices. A series that takes place in the past, that has airbenders and creatures that haven't become all but extinct in existence could show a very new take on things.

[Maximum Zersk]

Do we know that new series would take place in the future? What about the past? To be fair, Aang avatar world is very different from what it used to be, as evidenced constantly by the changes Aang notices. A series that takes place in the past, that has airbenders and creatures that haven't become all but extinct in existence could show a very new take on things.

I thought of that for a little. It'd be pretty interesting, really.

[AgentofOdd]

And that is true, we know Avatars can live a long time. I believe Kyoshi lived to be over 200, right? Of course, theoretically, they could have a new Avatar shortly (or at least less than the hundred+ years it would theoretically take for Aang to die naturally) after TLA's events if Aang fell victim to some accident or was slain by a foe more powerful than Ozai... but I doubt they'd want to start a new series one a note that depressing.If memory serves, didn't Avatar itself started off with a rather depressing note?

[The Rose Dragon]

Depends on your definition of "start". The first episode was not at all depressing, but they were followed by Aang getting captured by Zuko and learning that the Southern Air Temple was devastated as well as all the Air Monks killed.

[Pink]

If memory serves, didn't Avatar itself started off with a rather depressing note?

Starting in a war-torn world that you have little emotional investment in the first episode = not so depressing

Starting with the death of the main character of three seasons that most fans know and love = quite depressing.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

True, but I don't think "the bad guys are winning and the world's superhero is missing" carries the same weight as "Hey, remember that 12-year-old kid and his wacky gang of buddies you all loved for three seasons in the last show? Yeah, so they're all dead now."

Edit: Ninja'd!

[Lawless III]

Perhaps there is once again hope for the future of western animation. Pretty psyched.:smallbiggrin:

[Zevox]

Do we know that new series would take place in the future? What about the past? To be fair, Aang avatar world is very different from what it used to be, as evidenced constantly by the changes Aang notices. A series that takes place in the past, that has airbenders and creatures that haven't become all but extinct in existence could show a very new take on things.
It's always possible. All we know is the new name, which only tells us the new main character's name, not anything about where in the timeline the show will fall.

A series set before The Last Airbender would have to be set pretty far before it, though. We already know the story of what happened to start the war, and a fair amount about Roku in general. In theory I guess it could be set during the time of Kyoshi, Kuruk, or Yaang-Chen, if the titular character is not the Avatar, but I kind of doubt that myself.

Then again, if, as Lord Seth suggested, the creators already had an idea in mind for another series set well in the future compared to the first show, perhaps they have plenty of changes for the world in mind to take place between The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra. As you note, a lot changed in the hundred years Aang was frozen - in theory there's no reason a lot couldn't change if the new series is set well in the future too.


If memory serves, didn't Avatar itself started off with a rather depressing note?
To a degree I suppose, with the war, and with Aang being forced to confront what had happened at the Air Temples. But we viewers didn't have a direct connection to the victims of the war or the lost Air Nomads at the start of the first series that fans of the show would have with Aang going into the second series. The depressing notes The Last Airbender started with served to drive home the serious nature of Aang's story and the show's themes, and to begin Aang's development from carefree kid into his duties as Avatar as he has to confront this world - I don't think a depressing opening to a second series wherein we discover Aang had been killed in the prime of his life in an accident or in battle would have that same effect so much as it would simply upset and depress fans of the first show.

Zevox

[Delusion]

I will be sincerely disappointed if Zuko's mother doesn't appear somewhere. The ending of the finale was too big sequal hook to be just ignored.

[Yulian]

but really stalking trademark listings for any potential fandom news is slightly creepy and overshadows the good news to me.

You know nothing of Transformers fans. Trademark listings are posted regularly on message boards. We knew about Transformers: Prime almost as soon as it was registered.

Hmm, if this is a sequel, then I only want to see one thing for-certain addressed. If Aang is now gone, are the Airbenders now utterly gone from history? Will more arise? Obviously, since the Air Monks were TPKd, no more had been born to anyone, anywhere in that last century.

- Yulian

[SuperPanda]

Actually, the thing with the air benders sounds like great place to start a new series on.

Aang has passed, The water bender avatar has passed, the earth bender fire bender is old and on the end of his life and the air benders still haven't returned.


Personally I'd like Zuko's quest for his mother to be connected to the distant past of certain figures of the new arcs, like Sozin and Roku.

[Caewil]

I don't know... While all the airbenders at the time were killed, neither Katara's mother, father nor gran-gran were waterbenders - and she turned out to be a prodigy. So clearly bending can skip a generation even if hereditary...

Aside from that since Aang can take away firebending I'm sure he can find some way of giving people airbending.

[Zevox]

Hmm, if this is a sequel, then I only want to see one thing for-certain addressed. If Aang is now gone, are the Airbenders now utterly gone from history? Will more arise? Obviously, since the Air Monks were TPKd, no more had been born to anyone, anywhere in that last century.
If what I read on TVTropes about what the creators had to say on the subject was true, any children Aang and Katara might have would have a chance to be airbenders (or waterbenders or non-benders). Potentially, over the course of a few generations, that could result in some of their descendants making up a small group of new airbenders - not a new nation by any means, but at least a small school keeping the art alive.

There's also Aappa. If it's true that Sky Bisons were the first airbenders and taught humans how to airbend in the first place - which only makes sense given we're certain about the origins of firebending and earthbending with Dragons and Badger Moles, and there sure doesn't seem to be any other explanation for how Sky Bisons fly - it's possible he could teach some all-new airbenders before he passes on. Of course, once that happens, Sky Bisons will be truly extinct, so if he doesn't, the chance for humans to re-learn airbending from its original source will be gone.

Also... well, this is speculation I again read on TVTropes, so take it for what it is, but it's possible that Aang's "energybending" could allow him to impart the ability to airbend to people who otherwise couldn't. It appears as though that was the way the Lion Turtle granted Aang the ability to energybend in the first place, so it seems plausible that it can be used to impart bending as well as take it away. I'm not so sure I'd like that explanation for airbending's survival myself though, what with energybending being such a cop-out deus-ex-machina ability to begin with...

Zevox

[Pink]

Of course, once that happens, Sky Bisons will be truly extinct,

...I totally did not comprehend this fact ever. Who cares about airbenders going extinct, FLYING BUFFALO ARE GOING EXTINCT!

[Mystic Muse]

...I totally did not comprehend this fact ever. Who cares about airbenders going extinct, FLYING BUFFALO ARE GOING EXTINCT!

I'm more concerned about dragons going extinct. They're cooler and it could very well happen. I was never a fan of the flying buffalo. Or Bison. Or whatever the heck Aappa is.

I wonder if this series will have another guy obsessed with cabbages?

[SuperPanda]

I'd be expecting it to come from the energy bending trick used to create new air benders in Aang's lifetime and him then teaching them air bending culture and thus restoring the proper balance. It would be thematically correct, it would make him learning energy building worth wild. It would also be what I would consider the worst waste of a great story hook for a new series.

Four generations from now a new Air bending avatar will need to be born. Even if airbending is only passed on through Aang's kids he'd have something like 4 or 5 tops. Assuming that there is no dual bending gene (since its never come up before and I'm sure the potential has been there before) then we have 3 possible outcomes and therefore 3 likely children of Aang.

Lets assume (again because of the presentation of the show and the fact that intermingling between the nations seems like it used to happen a lot) that if your born a water bender you can't carry the genes for air bending and likewise the other way. So, 3 kids. Waterbender, Airbender, non bender. The non bender might have a dormant bending gene in them. So, maybe 1 airbender in that generation, and 1 who might make them. Next generation you get 2-6 airbenders. Numbers growing like that, there simply wouldn't be enough airbenders to be widely known and to guarantee that when the next fire avatar croaks a baby airbender is being born. So what happens is a baby avatar is being born. Everyone knows the avatar was born. Nobody knows who the avatar is, especially the avatar.

That would be a great opening point for a new series, gives a chapter or two just to figure things out and get the new lay of the land. The protagonist can fall into normal fantasy tropes and be completely unaware of how special they are until they are suddenly needed. I loved how Aang subverted that by knowing it and running away, but I don't think it would work twice.

Still, as long as they don't use Energybending to restore airbenders as above and then just have the new series happen as though they were never slaughtered, I'd be happy.

Actually, having two generations down (earth/Fire bending avatar?) the energy bent airbender line decides to take revenge on the fire nation and, not having the old teachings clearly recorded, become violent. That would make for a strange role reversal set up that might work... I'd prefer the first idea though.

[Pink]

I'm more concerned about dragons going extinct. They're cooler and it could very well happen. I was never a fan of the flying buffalo. Or Bison. Or whatever the heck Aappa is.

I wonder if this series will have another guy obsessed with cabbages?

But there are two dragons left, and as dragons they can probably live forever.

Also...I cannot recall, but did we ever learn where water bending came from?

[Mystic Muse]

But there are two dragons left, and as dragons they can probably live forever.

Also...I cannot recall, but did we ever learn where water bending came from?

It was said to be the moon that was the first water bender IIRC.

I don't think we have to worry about those going extinct.

[Zevox]

Also...I cannot recall, but did we ever learn where water bending came from?
Yue said that the myth among her tribe was that they learned it from the moon, seeing how it pushed and pulled the tides. Personally, I'd favor the idea of it being more that they learned it from the Moon Spirit, since it seems a bit ridiculous that just observing the moon's effect on the tides could let them figure it out completely on their own.

Zevox

[Pink]

It was said to be the moon that was the first water bender IIRC.

I don't think we have to worry about those going extinct.

Oh right. And well, you can always put a sickly kid each generation in the pool as a back-up just in case.

[Zevox]

Four generations from now a new Air bending avatar will need to be born.
Remember that that's four Avatar generations, though, which could be a couple hundred years per Avatar.


Numbers growing like that, there simply wouldn't be enough airbenders to be widely known and to guarantee that when the next fire avatar croaks a baby airbender is being born. So what happens is a baby avatar is being born. Everyone knows the avatar was born. Nobody knows who the avatar is, especially the avatar.
I imagine that whatever techniques the other nations use to figure out who the new Avatar is should still work. Aang knows how the Air Nomads did it, and hopefully would think to pass that knowledge on before he dies. Neat as the plot hook could be, I can't honestly see it becoming impossible for them to figure out who the new Avatar is.


Still, as long as they don't use Energybending to restore airbenders as above and then just have the new series happen as though they were never slaughtered, I'd be happy.
Oh, I should certainly hope not! Even if they do use energybending to restore the airbenders, I'd hope the show's creators are good enough writers that they wouldn't just have the Air Nomads be back to the way they were before. They'd have to be pretty different - and much fewer in number - after the nation was wiped out like that. Even if Aang teaches any new energybent airbenders the old culture, you have to imagine that not all of them are going to take to it and just set up a carbon-copy culture in the Air Temples just because he taught them what the old Air Nomads were like.

Actually, it reminds me of how the Star Wars EU had to deal with Luke restoring the Jedi Order after the events of the movies. It was slow going - took decades before they were back up to a size beyond a handful - and the result was a very different Order from the one we see coming before it. Of course, that could just be because not much about the old Jedi Order was made concrete before the prequels were released, but still.

Zevox

[Pink]

I imagine that whatever techniques the other nations use to figure out who the new Avatar is should still work. Aang knows how the Air Nomads did it, and hopefully would think to pass that knowledge on before he dies. Neat as the plot hook could be, I can't honestly see it becoming impossible for them to figure out who the new Avatar is.

I believe there are also a couple of miscellaneous 'mystic' types beyond benders as well that would probably assist in this avatar finding too. That guru sure knew alot about Aang and avatar stuff, despite having no real reason why he should.

I imagine that the new airbender culture, at least the one around the southern air temple, would turn out to be rather technology inclined, having the gliders living with them and all.

[AstralFire]

Air Bison > Dragons, as much as I like Fire > Air.

Most things > Dragons. :smallamused:

[Zevox]

I imagine that the new airbender culture, at least the one around the southern air temple, would turn out to be rather technology inclined, having the gliders living with them and all.
I think you mean the Northern Air Temple, where the Mechanist and Teo's people were. Yeah, that could be interesting. Though I do wonder if any new airbenders would even settle there rather than just let them have it, since Aang came to terms with their taking it as their new home.

Hm, actually, maybe Aang and/or Aappa could teach some of them to airbend.

Zevox

[Pink]

I think you mean the Norther Air Temple, where the Mechanist and Teo's people were. Yeah, that could be interesting. Though I do wonder if any new airbenders would even settle there rather than just let them have it, since Aang came to terms with their taking it as their new home.

Hm, actually, maybe Aang and/or Aappa could teach some of them to airbend.

Zevox

...Hang on a tick...memories fuzzy...did something happen to the south temple that caused Teo's people to move to the north temple? Because I'm quite sure they start north and head south, which means that the first temple they visit is the north one, which was abandoned.

[Zevox]

...Hang on a tick...memories fuzzy...did something happen to the south temple that caused Teo's people to move to the north temple? Because I'm quite sure they start north and head south, which means that the first temple they visit is the north one, which was abandoned.
Er, no, you have that backwards. They start south and head north. Katara and Sokka's people are the Southern Water Tribe, and they spent the entire first season heading to the North Pole to meet the Northern Water Tribe. Aang was from the Southern Air Temple, and the Mechanist and Teo's people settled in the Nortern Air Temple.

Zevox

[Pink]

Er, no, you have that backwards. They start south and head north. Katara and Sokka's people are the Southern Water Tribe, and they spent the entire first season heading to the North Pole to meet the Northern Water Tribe. Aang was from the Southern Air Temple, and the Mechanist and Teo's people settled in the Nortern Air Temple.

Zevox

...I blame it on being awake for 24 hours straight....:smallsigh:

[Jerthanis]

Or how many Identical Grandsons will be main characters?

I'm hoping this is restricted to like... Cabbages guy and foam-mouth fanboy/girl.

I'm hoping for more spirit-world travel/turmoil this time around. Aang belonged to an animist setting where he was the one in charge of regulating interactions between the spirit world and the human world, and he had like, one or two episodes dealing with conflicts and characters tied up in the spirit world, and otherwise the Spirit world was just a convenient place to expose information.

After a whole series about preserving the balance between nations and stopping a war criminal, a new series might be cool to present an Avatar upholding the balance between worlds.

[Zevox]

I'm hoping this is restricted to like... Cabbages guy and foam-mouth fanboy/girl.
...you know, for some reason, I like the thought of a foam-mouth girl being in this one once or twice as an homage to the first guy. Which is odd, because I never really liked the first foam-mouth guy.


I'm hoping for more spirit-world travel/turmoil this time around. Aang belonged to an animist setting where he was the one in charge of regulating interactions between the spirit world and the human world, and he had like, one or two episodes dealing with conflicts and characters tied up in the spirit world, and otherwise the Spirit world was just a convenient place to expose information.

After a whole series about preserving the balance between nations and stopping a war criminal, a new series might be cool to present an Avatar upholding the balance between worlds.
I like this idea. I was certainly under the impression that the Spirit World would be more important to the first series' story than it was after the big role played in the first season finale, especially since they hinted that Iroh had visited it somehow, and could even see spirits in the real world (he seemed to see Aang ride past on Roku's Dragon back in the first episode featuring the Spirit World). But then it never showed up again except to mentioned a couple of times in season 3, when they were speculating on the cause of the disappearances during the full moon and wondering where Aang had disappeared to at the beginning of the finale. Actually, I wish they had used it during the finale instead of the Lion Turtle/energybending - would have made for much less of a deus-ex-machina, even if it conveniently supplied Aang with a way to win without killing Ozai.

So yeah, a greater focus on the Spirit World in the new one sounds like a very good idea to me. Plus I imagine plenty of fans would just love to see Koh again :smallwink: . (Damn, he's creepy...)

...actually, now I'm suddenly extremely interested in seeing how he's handled in the movie. Maybe if we're lucky he'll be one thing they can't screw up.

Zevox

[Maximum Zersk]

Actually, to be honest, I hope they make some new random Ensemble Darkhorse. Of course, homages to Cabbage Guy would be awesome.

[Yulian]

Yue said that the myth among her tribe was that they learned it from the moon, seeing how it pushed and pulled the tides. Personally, I'd favor the idea of it being more that they learned it from the Moon Spirit, since it seems a bit ridiculous that just observing the moon's effect on the tides could let them figure it out completely on their own.

Zevox

Well...the fish. I just naturally assumed it was from the two spirit-fish.

I wouldn't be happy with the energy bending to impart air bending thing either. It was made out to be this huge deal when he did it to Ozai, light in the sky and everything.



So yeah, a greater focus on the Spirit World in the new one sounds like a very good idea to me. Plus I imagine plenty of fans would just love to see Koh again :smallwink: . (Damn, he's creepy...)

...actually, now I'm suddenly extremely interested in seeing how he's handled in the movie. Maybe if we're lucky he'll be one thing they can't screw up.

Zevox

Koh is indeed awesome. I love mukade-style monsters. But do we know if he's even going to be in the film? Still not sure I'm gonna see it until I hear some reviews. I checked the cast list and it's just devoid of Asians in any up-front roles for the most part. Except Dev Patel...still an odd Zuko to me.

But frankly, just having Aang's descendants being the only air benders left, and very, very slowly expanding their numbers as generations go by would be fine with me. It would give fans an automatic connection to them, as they all must be Aang's family, and not too far removed. Of course that depends how long they decide Aang will have lived. It would also lend weight to the decimation of the Air Nomads in the past. The world would still be recovering.

- Yulian

[Mystic Muse]

I apologize for this but I don't remember. Who's Koh?

[AstralFire]

I apologize for this but I don't remember. Who's Koh?

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Koh

I liked your last avatar better, btw.

[Mystic Muse]

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Koh

I liked your last avatar better, btw.

I got rid of it because it was tormenting Psycho.

Ah yes. I remember Koh now.

[Zevox]

Koh is, indeed awesome. I love mukade-style monsters. But do we know if he's even going to be in the film? Still not sure I'm gonna see it until I hear some reviews. I checked the cast list and it's just devoid of Asians in any up-front roles for the most part. Except Dev Patel...still an odd Zuko to me.
We don't know if he'll be in, no - at least, not that I've heard. But personally, I would guess they wouldn't want to cut anything out of the Siege of the North, since that's the most important part of the first season's plot. Of course, I guess I shouldn't underestimate their ability to screw up, but still.

Personally, I'm interested enough to see the movie, but the highest expectation I have for it is that it'll be a good enough action flick that it will have been worth seeing no matter how much they botch other aspects of it. I'll probably see the second too, assuming it gets made, mostly because two of my favorite characters, Azula and Toph, won't show up until then.

And yeah, I agree with you about the airbenders.

Zevox

[Pink]

By all accounts I'm sorta excited about the movie. Action looks good, actors don't seem too off, though I'm unsure of the kid they chose for aang, seeing as Katara gets most of the screen-time in the trailers.

The one thing that concerns me is the condensing they're doing, and if they can really pull of anything near the story of the first season with just one movie. Ah well, I'll go and see it and maybe be pleasantly surprised.

[Zevox]

By all accounts I'm sorta excited about the movie. Action looks good, actors don't seem too off, though I'm unsure of the kid they chose for aang, seeing as Katara gets most of the screen-time in the trailers.
Odd, the kid they have for Aang is the one I figure I'll be least likely to be disappointed with. At least he looks the part. The others... not so much.

Zevox

[dehro]

Odd, the kid they have for Aang is the one I figure I'll be least likely to be disappointed with. At least he looks the part. The others... not so much.

Zevox

uhm..slumdog guy for zuko, if I'm right..doesn't sound too bad to me.

I personally have a feeling that the new series will be quite a bit in the future.
placing it in the past brings up a lot of issues with continuity and with events that SHOULD have been referenced in the show so far... and if they follow up on that, there's only so much freedom, plotwise, because whatever they do must allow for it to not overshadow aang and his accomplishments and era, nor must it negate what we know of the past so far...I don't believe in retcons.
(I'm not sure I explain myself, but it works in my mind..try to read it :smallbiggrin:)

placing it only a 100 years or so in the future brings up the same limitation that the story so far has, namely no air people except in flashback.
for this reason, I'm thinking that it will take place at least a few thousand years away from Aang, taking in consideration the lenght of their lifespan.
this would allow him and Katara to ...go forth and multiply:smalleek:, and for a new wave of air people to estabilish themselves.
I'm also thinking that this fact may introduce a slightly different level of technology (hoping it won't. I like them just as they are, but, there you go. It IS a possibility)

also, IF my reasoning proves to be true, it could be quite interesting to see whether the "new" air people will adhere to the monastic lifestyle of their ancestors or if Aang will set a new kind of example to his offspring.

[Zevox]

uhm..slumdog guy for zuko, if I'm right..doesn't sound too bad to me.
Don't know exactly what you're referring to there, but Zuko's actor is one of the worse ones when it comes to not actually looking like his character - especially since they've made his scar much less noticeable than it really should be.


I personally have a feeling that the new series will be quite a bit in the future.
placing it in the past brings up a lot of issues with continuity and with events that SHOULD have been referenced in the show so far... and if they follow up on that, there's only so much freedom, plotwise, because whatever they do must allow for it to not overshadow aang and his accomplishments and era, nor must it negate what we know of the past so far...I don't believe in retcons.
(I'm not sure I explain myself, but it works in my mind..try to read it :smallbiggrin:)
I don't think I necessarily agree with you, as I really doubt any series set in the past would be set so close to Aang's story that events which impacted it would be part its focus. I mean, presumably the new main character will be another Avatar - or, if not, the Avatar will still play a main role in the show at least - and we know who the four Avatars preceding Aang were, and at least a little about each (a pretty fair amount about Roku). If Korra is an Avatar and the show is set before TLA, it would likely be at least five Avatar-generations back - and with the 100-year time skip for Aang and Kyoshi living to be over 200 herself, that'd be quite a long time before Aang. Far enough back that nothing which happens in the new show would necessarily have a direct effect on TLA.


placing it only a 100 years or so in the future brings up the same limitation that the story so far has, namely no air people except in flashback.
for this reason, I'm thinking that it will take place at least a few thousand years away from Aang, taking in consideration the lenght of their lifespan.
this would allow him and Katara to ...go forth and multiply:smalleek:, and for a new wave of air people to estabilish themselves.
I don't quite understand. We've been discussing how the airbenders might survive beyond Aang, and you explicitly acknowledge the Aang-Katara children method in your post, so why would there be no airbenders at all only a century or two in the future? There wouldn't likely be many, sure, but there don't necessarily have to be - it could in fact make for an interesting aspect of the setting to see how the few airbenders that now exist are struggling to keep their art alive. And as Yulian said, not only would it give viewers a certain connection to them, since they would mostly - or all - be immediately descendants of Aang and Katara, it would also help drive home how devastating the war was, since the world would still be recovering from it in various ways, such as with the airbenders.

Zevox

[SpiderMew]

I just recently (last week actualy) got into and watched all of Avatar the last airbender.

If he and katara have babys, what would probably happen is there would be a new tribe of people living in the southern air temple who are mixed of air and water benders. Or atleast i would hope so.
Also i defently would want more spirt world stuff.

Oh what if say some dark and evil spirit from beyond the stars come to the world and it was up to the new avatar from stopping this monster from crossing over?

Perhaps some Cthulu like acient evil.

[Zeful]

B) Closure on the family arc.

What family arc? Are you referring to the whole Ursa thing at the end of the series? That doesn't qualify as an arc, as it's placement was designed to reinforce that life moves on now that The Avatar's story (mastering the elements and defeating the Fire Nation so that balance may return) has come to an end.

[Lord Seth]

What family arc? Are you referring to the whole Ursa thing at the end of the series? That doesn't qualify as an arc, as it's placement was designed to reinforce that life moves on now that The Avatar's story (mastering the elements and defeating the Fire Nation so that balance may return) has come to an end.While it doesn't necessarily qualify as an arc, it was yet another thing in season three that was set up only to have no real follow-through, especially given the fact they brought it up again at the end of the finale, only to not bother actually giving any answer at all. It felt more like a game of Keep-Away on the part of the writers than anything else. "You want this plot point we've brought up multiple times resolved, huh, huh? Well too bad, we're not giving it to you!"

[NeoRetribution]

This thread is too interesting to leave untouched.

The chronological series of Avatar: The Last Airbender begins peacefully enough. But Aang spends most of the series learning about the consequences of his actions and trying to right the wrongs of himself, Avatar Roku, and others.

According to Zhao, who had visited Wan Shi Tong's library, the moment the Avatar dies he is immediately reincarnated as a member of the next element culture in the cycle and implied as a gifted bender. So let us suppose that Korra is a water-like name. This is fairly reasonable. Of the five Water Tribe names beginning with K in the series, three are female. Of those three all of them were blood relatives: Kanna, Kya, and Katara.

Now let us assume that guru Pathik was correct about Aang's potential as a guru. That might add, roughly, an extra one hundred to one hundred fifty years to Aang's ten years of development. This does not include the amount of time Aang spent imprisoned in ice. The extra century of Aang's life as a possible guru does not count outside disturbances such as what happened to Avatar Roku. Given the theme of correcting past errors in the series one could assume that Aang might spend anywhere from fifty to seventy-five years building both Air Nomad and Southern Water Tribe cultures. Assuming that Avatar: Korra relates to the immediate Avatar reincarnation Korra would likely arrive to continue Aang's work whether born to the Southern Water Tribe or not.

That said, both the series and the creators admit that bending is not genetic. Anyone can learn any bending discipline which is why Aang could learn other bending disciplines at all. Aang could have simply spent the majority of the rest of his life teaching others how to bend air. The inhabitants of Northern Air Temple are prime candidates for this.

It is only my personal opinion that Aang's history would be focused in building Air Nomad culture because the next Avatar is water. But it would be fascinating to watch Korra smite Koh to retrieve or steal Ummi. This would correct Avatar Kuruk's error. It would also be fascinating to watch Avatar Aang advise Korra as Roku did for Aang.

It does not seem as a great stretch to me that Korra would either meet or converse with Yue during the possible series. What really intrigues me is the possibility that Toph might last as long as Bumi and that Sokka might achieve a mastery greater than Piandao. If Sokka's straight sword is ever found by the Order of the White Lotus it could be harbored on Kiyoshi Island for his descendants.

Unfortunately it is more reasonable to me that the series title Korra might relate to The Last Air Bender as a culture or people group instead of a specific name. Possibly a reference to a culture like the Yu Yan.

It is a shame that Mako Iwamatsu was unable to complete the Last Airbender Series. Had he been able to Iroh would have likely been shown in far more scenes and given Zuko a full explanation about Lady Ursa's location in exile. According to the creators of the series, Lady Ursa returned to the Fire Nation shortly after the series end and was presently involved in Azula's mental therapy.


As for the live-action film I would not even accept money to view it.

[Zevox]

That said, both the series and the creators admit that bending is not genetic. Anyone can learn any bending discipline which is why Aang could learn other bending disciplines at all.
You sure about that? What I heard was that they said it is a combination of a few factors, including genetic and spiritual. Hence why they said any children of Aang and Katara's could potentially be air or waterbenders (or not benders at all), but not earth or firebenders, even though Aang can bend all four elements due to being the Avatar. This was also why the Air Nomads, the most spiritual of the nations, had a population where everyone was a bender, while the Fire Nation, the least spiritual of the nations, had the lowest number of benders relative to their population.


Unfortunately it is more reasonable to me that the series title Korra might relate to The Last Air Bender as a culture or people group instead of a specific name. Possibly a reference to a culture like the Yu Yan.
I wouldn't bet on that myself. It follows the exact same name pattern they used for the European version of the show - Avatar: The Legend of Aang.


It is a shame that Mako Iwamatsu was unable to complete the Last Airbender Series. Had he been able to Iroh would have likely been shown in far more scenes and given Zuko a full explanation about Lady Ursa's location in exile.
Er, why would Iroh know that :smallconfused: ? He was still away when it happened, on his way home from the siege of Ba Sing Se, and it was Ozai who exiled her. I doubt he'd have told Iroh about it.


According to the creators of the series, Lady Ursa returned to the Fire Nation shortly after the series end and was presently involved in Azula's mental therapy.
Really? Where'd you hear that one? I thought they'd left Ursa's fate a complete a mystery.

Zevox

[Kobold-Bard]

re: Airbenders.

I definitely remember (not sure where) reading that the idea that every last Airbender was at the temples when the genocide happened was crazy, because we know they travelled a little at least.

So there should be at least some who survived, maybe passing on Airbending as a secret cult thing/pass on the inherent memory of it (hence where the Temple people's talent in the air come from).

No that that has any basis, but I like the idea.

[dehro]

I don't quite understand. We've been discussing how the airbenders might survive beyond Aang, and you explicitly acknowledge the Aang-Katara children method in your post, so why would there be no airbenders at all only a century or two in the future? There wouldn't likely be many, sure, but there don't necessarily have to be - it could in fact make for an interesting aspect of the setting to see how the few airbenders that now exist are struggling to keep their art alive. And as Yulian said, not only would it give viewers a certain connection to them, since they would mostly - or all - be immediately descendants of Aang and Katara, it would also help drive home how devastating the war was, since the world would still be recovering from it in various ways, such as with the airbenders.

Zevox

just how many airbenders are we talking about though?
if we agree on the aang-katara offspring as the most likely source for airbenders, just how many children do you want them to have, in about a century?
grandchildren too, granted, and great grandchildren..
but even then, you're still talking about a family, not exactly what I am hoping for, i.e. a civilisation/country/culture, with internal conflicts, different roles, several different facets...
it's mostly wishful thinking, I agree, but it's based on the, I think reasonable, desire/expectation to see the air people at their full potential.. Aang's children and (great)grandchildren wouldn't, couldn't be that, simply because of the strong influence of having an avatar grandaddy...and being closely related with one another
the previous series are all about discovering the different people that live in the 3 nations, how they work, what their beliefs and values are, not just how they "bend".
this voyage of discovery couldn't be done ovbiously in the fourth nation, but having a chance to work in a different era, with the balance restored (or never broken if they do decide to go in the past), it would be too much of a juicy opportunity not to explore the air people beyond their temples.
again, I don't believe that could be done if all the airbenders there were were closely related to each other and basically in a very small number.

another thought...I don't seem to remember any mixed marriages (element wise)... could a new "generation" of benders be born out of Aang and katara who isn't a member of aang's own nation?
by which I mean benders who bend either both elements or something different altogether

[thubby]

wasn't avatar originally supposed to be set in the future? any chance that's where this series happens?

[Zevox]

just how many airbenders are we talking about though?
if we agree on the aang-katara offspring as the most likely source for airbenders, just how many children do you want them to have, in about a century?
grandchildren too, granted, and great grandchildren..
but even then, you're still talking about a family, not exactly what I am hoping for, i.e. a civilisation/country/culture, with internal conflicts, different roles, several different facets...
That's the thing though - I don't think we should expect them to put it far into the future just to have the airbenders consist of a full nation of people. In fact, I'd say it would be far more interesting to see them at a point where they are just an extended family, or just far enough removed from that to consist of a small monastery or school of benders. A group still struggling to keep their bending art and their heritage, alive, still trying to recover from the effects of the war.

Now, if they have another reason to set the show that far forward, perhaps, but I don't think seeing a new Air Nomad nation alone is a good enough reason to do that. To the contrary, I think it would lessen the impact and importance of what they suffered in TLA to just skip ahead to a point where they've fully recovered.


another thought...I don't seem to remember any mixed marriages (element wise)... could a new "generation" of benders be born out of Aang and katara who isn't a member of aang's own nation?
Though they didn't cover any in the show, I somehow doubt this is anything that has never happened in the world before. Plus, as I said, the creators have already mentioned how Aang and Katara having children would work.

Zevox

[Prime32]

wasn't avatar originally supposed to be set in the future? any chance that's where this series happens?...what? :smallconfused:

[thubby]

...what? :smallconfused:

i could be wrong, but i seem to recall some bonus feature or interview with the creators talking about it.

[Prime32]

You don't spend much time on TVTropes, do you? Because just about every fantasy series has a few theories like that.

[Lord Seth]

That said, both the series and the creators admit that bending is not genetic. Anyone can learn any bending discipline which is why Aang could learn other bending disciplines at all.When did they claim this? That claim doesn't seem to fit with the series at all.


It is a shame that Mako Iwamatsu was unable to complete the Last Airbender Series. Had he been able to Iroh would have likely been shown in far more scenes and given Zuko a full explanation about Lady Ursa's location in exile. According to the creators of the series, Lady Ursa returned to the Fire Nation shortly after the series end and was presently involved in Azula's mental therapy.Why the heck were you using a different font? It just looks weird.

While I don't accept "well Mako died" as an excuse for the fact Iroh did practically nothing in season three (both because I thought the new guy did a good job and because if that was the case they shouldn't have spent so much time building up like Iroh was going to do some really awesome stuff), it's especially no excuse for them actually bringing up the plot point of Zuko's mother and then immediately dropping it as soon as they bring it up. In fact, how the heck would Iroh know anything about that? It's hard to believe he did given that he never brought it up. Iroh's lack of presence had nothing to do with the fact that they left that plot point unresolved.

[NeoRetribution]

...it's especially no excuse for them actually bringing up the plot point of Zuko's mother and then immediately dropping it as soon as they bring it up.


During the San Diego Comic-con, it was announced that a reunion between Ursa and Zuko had been arranged, made into a storyboard then dropped just before the finale was finished, as requested by show co-creator Michael Dante DiMartino.


Ozai and Azula were both defeated by the Avatar and his allies during the arrival of Sozin's Comet, and while Ozai is being held in the Capital City Prison, Azula was sent to a secret mental facility elsewhere in the Fire Nation. It is probable that Ozai's favor for Azula was badly tarnished when he learned that she was defeated by Zuko.


This marked Azula's final appearance in the series. It is stated on Nick's website that after her Agni Kai, Azula was transferred to a mental health facility on a nearby island where she was monitored around the clock.
Unfortunately it seems that the initial reference at Nick.com was taken down. The site is very Flash heavy. This link (http://www.tv.com/avatar-the-last-airbender/what-happened-to-azula-nick-gives-the-answer-spoilers/topic/13281-1122721/msgs.html) corroborates the steps used to find it.




Er, why would Iroh know that? He was still away when it happened, on his way home from the siege of Ba Sing Se, and it was Ozai who exiled her. I doubt he'd have told Iroh about it.

...it's especially no excuse for them actually bringing up the plot point of Zuko's mother and then immediately dropping it as soon as they bring it up. In fact, how the heck would Iroh know anything about that?

Iroh is a Grand Master in the Order of the White Lotus. If he does not know personally then someone else in the organization very likely does. This may, or may not, be completely independent of the specific story-board planned for the reunion between Zuko and Ursa. Speaking reasonably it makes no sense for Lady Ursa to return to meet with Zuko and not her own daughter.




I wouldn't bet on that myself. It follows the exact same name pattern they used for the European version of the show - Avatar: The Legend of Aang.

Thank you for making that point. I was not aware of a European syndication.





You sure about that? What I heard was that they said it is a combination of a few factors, including genetic and spiritual.

When did they claim this? That claim doesn't seem to fit with the series at all.


Very accurate, Zevox! Let this put an end to all doubt.
We always have liked the idea of who will be a bender and who won't be to be kind of an ambiguous mystery, even to the people in the Avatar world. From early on we thought the Air Nomads would be all benders. Again it's like Mike was saying, it's more of a spiritual connection. But they have...they had...the smallest population. Earth Kingdom has the biggest population but the smallest percentage of benders. So yeah, there were these notions we kicked around that it wasn't going to be regimented or ruled through specific lineages. We liked the idea that each of the cultures have a different spiritual vantage point...coming at it from a different angle.

The above (http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/interviews.php?id=19) is Part Two of a three part article. The beginning can be found here (http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/interviews.php?id=18).

[Prime32]

Thank you for making that point. I was not aware of a European syndication.I believe the title Avatar: The Legend of Aang was used in most English-speaking countries outside North America - in the UK and Australia at least. I know the German title translates as something like Avatar: Master of Elements.

I've seen theories on why the different names were chosen...

[John Cribati]

Part Two of a three part article. The beginning can be found here (http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/interviews.php?id=18).

***Interviewers note: About 20 mins after the interview, Bryan came back to me and we spoke a little more about the basis of bending off recorder. He described bending as more of a talent. You have some genetic basis for potential, but you could go your whole life without developing the talent into ability. Some people have more inherent talent than others, while others with minimal inherent talent can still develop it through hard work and practice. He reiterated a connection to the spiritual energies is the underlying basis. How it manifests is based on upbringing and experience.




I've seen theories on why the different names were chosen...

"Bender" is a slur/insult in many European countries. Sort of like "F-gg-t" in America.

[Zevox]

Iroh is a Grand Master in the Order of the White Lotus. If he does not know personally then someone else in the organization very likely does.
Don't know why you'd assume that. I didn't get the impression that the Order of the White Lotus operates like some kind of spy network - heck, I believe Pakku said that the group was mostly a philosophical one in the finale, just a secretive one which brought together people from all nations. I suppose there's a chance that someone connected to it might learn her whereabouts, depending on how large the group is, but if Iroh doesn't even know she was banished, as opposed to Ozai killing her or something, he wouldn't even know to ask around about her. Plus I'd wonder why he'd keep that information from Zuko if he did know.


***Interviewers note: About 20 mins after the interview, Bryan came back to me and we spoke a little more about the basis of bending off recorder. He described bending as more of a talent. You have some genetic basis for potential, but you could go your whole life without developing the talent into ability. Some people have more inherent talent than others, while others with minimal inherent talent can still develop it through hard work and practice. He reiterated a connection to the spiritual energies is the underlying basis. How it manifests is based on upbringing and experience.
Plus the portion of the interview he quoted didn't even indicate there was no genetic component to it, just that they rejected the idea of it being restricted to being passed down in certain lineages, i.e. particular (probably noble/royal) families.

Zevox

[dehro]

That's the thing though - I don't think we should expect them to put it far into the future just to have the airbenders consist of a full nation of people. In fact, I'd say it would be far more interesting to see them at a point where they are just an extended family, or just far enough removed from that to consist of a small monastery or school of benders. A group still struggling to keep their bending art and their heritage, alive, still trying to recover from the effects of the war.

Zevox

whilst I agree that it would be interesting to see, you must admit that yours is wishful thinking too, just like mine.
the only difference is that I base mine on precedent (3 series, all 3 based on exploration of a different nation and of it's ways..the air nation being the only one missing).
it's also very unlikely that the new protagonist will be an airbending avatar, which would suggest that either the air nation gets properly explored (for which you need a nation or you'll be done in 2 episodes),or else, whatever their size, they get anecdotical screentime..which in my opinion would be a wasted opportunity.

there is one final consideration that makes me think that your alternative is unlikely to be the one: your idea, however intriguing, seems to suit a more mature audience than the target audience of what is ultimately a show for children. not that that rules it out...I just think it unlikely.


I admit of course that all of the above is purely speculation/opinion, and is aimed at giving some substance to what is ultimately wishful thinking..
but then..I suppose that that's how most online debates go :smallbiggrin:

P.S. does anybody know if it's going to be another 3 series or a one off?

[Zevox]

whilst I agree that it would be interesting to see, you must admit that yours is wishful thinking too, just like mine.
the only difference is that I base mine on precedent (3 series, all 3 based on exploration of a different nation and of it's ways..the air nation being the only one missing).
it's also very unlikely that the new protagonist will be an airbending avatar, which would suggest that either the air nation gets properly explored (for which you need a nation or you'll be done in 2 episodes),or else, whatever their size, they get anecdotical screentime..which in my opinion would be a wasted opportunity.
I think you've misread the basis of the seasons. The point was not to explore each nation and its ways - indeed, we got relatively little of that, save as it pertained to Aang's quest and the plot that developed around it. The seasons were named for the element Aang learned to bend in them. As that involved going to each nation to find a teacher (and to face the Firelord, in season 3's case), that meant that we saw each of those nations in turn. But the focus was more on the effects of the war on those nations, not on their culture and way of life, though those of necessity came through at times as well.


there is one final consideration that makes me think that your alternative is unlikely to be the one: your idea, however intriguing, seems to suit a more mature audience than the target audience of what is ultimately a show for children. not that that rules it out...I just think it unlikely.
A whole lot of The Last Airbender is better suited to a more mature audience than the theoretical target audience. The show starts out with the premise being that the world has been embroiled in a war for 100 years, and spends a good deal of time treating the effects of that war as a very serious topic - see episodes like "Imprisoned" or "Zuko Alone." Heck, one of the first things Aang has to confront and come to terms with is the genocide of his people! If ever there was a plot point unlikely to be a major part of a kid's show, I'd think that would be it, yet there it is.

This kind of thing is precisely why the show is so popular not only with its original target demographic, but with older audiences as well.


P.S. does anybody know if it's going to be another 3 series or a one off?
We have no idea. As I said in the first post, all we have now is the name, because the only information on it is the trademark Viacom filed.

Zevox

[Bryn]

One other fact about The Legend of Korra: there is apparently going to be a character named Meelo, and this fellow (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3488781/) was auditioning for the role. No idea whether he got it, and in any case actors' twitter feeds may not be entirely reliable :smallwink:

Here (http://www.toonzone.net/news/articles/33286/nickelodeon-studios-staffing-up-for-new-avatar-the-last-airbender-project) are some earlier details, in which Nickelodeon were recruiting storyboarders.

I'm imagining that it will be a sequel in which Korra is a female Avatar from the Water Tribe. Less realistically, I really want Water Tribe (http://noselfcontrol.deviantart.com/art/Water-Tribe-001-69837313) to be canon.

Edit: Also, regarding dates, apparently I posted this on TV Tropes a while ago (why don't I remember that :smallconfused:). This may not be true anymore.

Another wiki quote:


KONIETZKO: ....Also, we're just trying...we do have a new idea, and we're just seeing if it's going to happen or not.
TZN: Can you say if it's Avatar-related, or is it something new?
DIMARTINO: Yeah. It's a new incarnation of the Avatar story.
KONIETZKO: But, we don't know. We'll see if we can get to make it. There are things that we control and things we don't. That's all I can say.

It has been confirmed that Bryan Konietzko and Michael Dante DiMartino are planning on creating another series in the Avatar Universe. Not much is known about it because it is still in the early stages of development.

It is said this new series will come out in late 2010, possibly September or October. In the 2007 Comic Con they said Aang's story will end but they are trying to get "something in The Avatar World going".

The creators and Co-Creators of Avatar are not entirely sure about a new series. It remains to be seen whether they will commit to a new series.

What is Known

* At San Diego Comic-Con, the creators and director of the Sozin's Comet made it clear that there would be no Book 4 in the series, and hinted that the series was definitely complete. They referenced the open-ended plot point of Zuko's mother and said that the sequence had been story-boarded, but was not included in the finale by request of Mike. They spoke a lot about the upcoming live action film, but refused to acknowledge more seasons in the series, and outright denied the rumor that they had signed on for six seasons.
* The creators are currently dedicated to the live-action films of the original series, so this may interfere with the creation of a new series.

If the above rumours are true, things should be extremely awesome towards the end of this year.

[Zevox]

One other fact about The Legend of Korra: there is apparently going to be a character named Meelo, and this fellow (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3488781/) was auditioning for the role. No idea whether he got it, and in any case actors' twitter feeds may not be entirely reliable :smallwink:
Plus it's possible that character concepts could change between now and when the show is actually made and aired - like how Katara's name was originally going to be Kya, or how Toph was originally going to be a guy.

Edit:

Edit: Also, regarding dates, apparently I posted this on TV Tropes a while ago (why don't I remember that :smallconfused:). This may not be true anymore.

Another wiki quote:

KONIETZKO: ....Also, we're just trying...we do have a new idea, and we're just seeing if it's going to happen or not.
TZN: Can you say if it's Avatar-related, or is it something new?
DIMARTINO: Yeah. It's a new incarnation of the Avatar story.
KONIETZKO: But, we don't know. We'll see if we can get to make it. There are things that we control and things we don't. That's all I can say.

It has been confirmed that Bryan Konietzko and Michael Dante DiMartino are planning on creating another series in the Avatar Universe. Not much is known about it because it is still in the early stages of development.

It is said this new series will come out in late 2010, possibly September or October. In the 2007 Comic Con they said Aang's story will end but they are trying to get "something in The Avatar World going".

The creators and Co-Creators of Avatar are not entirely sure about a new series. It remains to be seen whether they will commit to a new series.

What is Known

* At San Diego Comic-Con, the creators and director of the Sozin's Comet made it clear that there would be no Book 4 in the series, and hinted that the series was definitely complete. They referenced the open-ended plot point of Zuko's mother and said that the sequence had been story-boarded, but was not included in the finale by request of Mike. They spoke a lot about the upcoming live action film, but refused to acknowledge more seasons in the series, and outright denied the rumor that they had signed on for six seasons.
* The creators are currently dedicated to the live-action films of the original series, so this may interfere with the creation of a new series.
If the above rumours are true, things should be extremely awesome towards the end of this year.
*raises eyebrow at the date* Very interesting - if it turns out to be true. Even that post acknowledges it to be rumor.

Zevox

[Prime32]

Less realistically, I really want Water Tribe (http://noselfcontrol.deviantart.com/art/Water-Tribe-001-69837313) to be canon.It's a cool series, but Zhao starts to feel like a Mary Sue after a while.

[Lord Seth]

Unfortunately it seems that the initial reference at Nick.com was taken down. The site is very Flash heavy. This link (http://www.tv.com/avatar-the-last-airbender/what-happened-to-azula-nick-gives-the-answer-spoilers/topic/13281-1122721/msgs.html) corroborates the steps used to find it.Why do you keep using a different font? It looks rather annoying. I've never understood why people do that.

However, saying "well there was originally a reunion" doesn't change the fact that in the show there wasn't. It's left hanging. But if they decided to pointlessly cut the scene out, then why leave in the scene with Ozai and Zuko? If you're going to (again, pointlessly) cut a scene out, why keep in a scene which has the sole purpose of setting up that other scene?


Iroh is a Grand Master in the Order of the White Lotus. If he does not know personally then someone else in the organization very likely does. This may, or may not, be completely independent of the specific story-board planned for the reunion between Zuko and Ursa. Speaking reasonably it makes no sense for Lady Ursa to return to meet with Zuko and not her own daughter.That doesn't address my point at all. Whether Iroh was there or not had no bearing whatsoever on the issue. You're basing this completely on simple speculation. And Iroh was there sufficiently that he could've mentioned it if he did know.

Now as for the article, let me give a quote:

RM: Okay, next I know I'm going really left brained and you can call me a geek because I am, but in "The Fortuneteller" you have a pair of twins...kids...one is an earthbender and one isn't. So is bending genetic, or is it some sort of spiritual thing? How does it work?

BK: Mike and I just got new puppies. They're brothers. They have the same mother and father. Same litter. Mike's dog can just sit in a crate and be happy as a clam. My dog just loses all control...everything. Who knows why these things happen? They're beyond our full understanding.

MDD: Yeah, Katara's mom and dad weren't benders. Maybe it's a recessive gene. I've always seen it as more spiritual connections, though. A little bit mysterious...

BK: I mean we've definitely talked about it. I think, again, sometimes we might not know...it's more of what we don't want it to be. We didn't want it to be like there is a lineage...a royal family or something...and these people can bend and then there's everyone else as non-bending, people who never will. Some sort of caste system. Mike and I are more attracted to more of the flux type universe. The only constant is change, variation, that sorta thing. I'm sure it's a bunch of factors.I've bolded the especially pertinent portions. It all ends up the writers saying "We don't know". Even the "We didn't want it to be" isn't them saying "It isn't like this". At any rate, the show itself seems to reinforce the belief that there are people who can bend and some people who just can't.


***Interviewers note: About 20 mins after the interview, Bryan came back to me and we spoke a little more about the basis of bending off recorder. He described bending as more of a talent. You have some genetic basis for potential, but you could go your whole life without developing the talent into ability. Some people have more inherent talent than others, while others with minimal inherent talent can still develop it through hard work and experience.This doesn't seem to quite fit with what we've seen in the series, but even ignoring that, it still seems to fit with the "some people just can't and never will be able to no matter what."

[Lord Raziere]

Most things > Dragons.

I respectfully disagree and think you have that backwards. However you are entitled to your opinion. :smallcool:

[Blayze]

I shall parade you before their conquered peoples as the fallen idol of a pathetic ideal. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klGN8HWbUmk)

Wait. Wrong Avatar.

Seriously, hoping this is at least as good as the original. And if Sokka appears for some reason, he'd better be awesome.

[Caewil]

Sokka should be an old sword-master and have that ridiculous beard.

[Maximum Zersk]

Sokka should be an old sword-master and have that ridiculous beard.

I can just imagine a scenario. A character comes all the way to learn from a master. Then when he finally reaches Sokka, the old warrior, expecting someone wise and mature, they find an old man acting like... Sokka.

[Zevox]

I kinda doubt we'll see Sokka. The interview NeoRetribution linked to earlier mentions why exactly some characters, like Bumi and Kyoshi, live so long - they have "enhanced Chi fields," likely because of their bending - so I doubt Sokka would end up with an extended lifespan like that. Which means that unless the new show is set close enough after TLA that all or most of the original heroes are still alive, Sokka will almost surely have died before the new show starts. Especially if Korra or one of the other new characters is the new Avatar, which would require Aang to be dead - he'll surely outlive Sokka unless he's killed in battle or an accident.

Exact quote on the longevity thing:

RM: There are a lot of things that are related to Avatar on the internet and such that are official from Nick. You have the comics, the Nick.com material, the trading card game. What is canon? Sometimes these things will talk major things. New characters in the game cards. The comics mention Kyoshi died at 230 year old. How much is canon?

[...snip...]

MDD: But as for the online 'spirit world' thing, I wrote it and we all worked on it so I'd say that is real.

BK: (spooky voice) It's Dogma.

MDD: And yes, the Kyoshi thing is true. We sat down and decided yes, she lived to be a really old lady.

BK: You know Bumi lived over 100 years. We had kind of set it up. It's not so foreign in Chinese mythology to have like the Taoist immortals, these characters or legendary figures who lived 500-600 years. It wasn't one of the earliest ideas we had, but pretty early on Mike and I were of the idea that these people with such enhanced Chi fields might live a longer time. We've shown that Kyoshi was a pretty robust person.
Zevox

[Pink]

Dunno, but these (http://www.sisterclaire.com/blog/avatar-sketchdump/) might be relevent (http://www.sisterclaire.com/blog/more-avatar-portfolio-work/) to the thread.

[dehro]

I think you've misread the basis of the seasons. The point was not to explore each nation and its ways - indeed, we got relatively little of that, save as it pertained to Aang's quest and the plot that developed around it. The seasons were named for the element Aang learned to bend in them. As that involved going to each nation to find a teacher (and to face the Firelord, in season 3's case), that meant that we saw each of those nations in turn. But the focus was more on the effects of the war on those nations, not on their culture and way of life, though those of necessity came through at times as well.

what you say is true, but it doesn't really go against what I say. the voyage, the learning path, so to speak, and understanding the elements can't be done without exploring the nations. you could equate it to the genetics Vs misticism debate... finding masters is important but so is learning to know what he's supposed to fight for. had they brought 3 masters to him instead of the other way around, he might have learned the technique, but would he know what was at stake and would he have made friends and known people and have matured enough not just technically but "in spirit", to face ozai? I like to think not
(also, the show would have been considerably shorter:smallbiggrin:)

I think it's appropriately zen/mistic an idea, to come full circle and explore the air nation. mostly though, what makes it intriguing for me, is the potential of drawing up a "new" culture, new country and society. what made the show interesting to me aside it's overal awesomness, was the fact that each nation was very subtly detailed, their differences and common traits as important as the plots of the single episodes. having potentially a fourth nation to come full circle with and expand upon and not doing so would be, in my view, a wasted opportunity.



This kind of thing is precisely why the show is so popular not only with its original target demographic, but with older audiences as well.


yup..but the marketing people will still want it to focus on the main target.
mature audience are unlikely to buy gadgets related to the show..well..some might, but..you get the idea.

[Yora]

My oppinion on a new Avatar show is mixed.
I like the setting and the creators that made the original series have shown they are able to make very interesting characters. So if it turns out there will be a new show, there's a good chance I will like that one too.
But it probably would be something very different from what we had in the past. The show is massively character driven and relies a great deal on group interaction. With new characters, it can still be really good, but it just wouldn't be the same.

[Green Bean]

Why on earth would different be a bad thing? :smallconfused:

[Pink]

My oppinion on a new Avatar show is mixed.
I like the setting and the creators that made the original series have shown they are able to make very interesting characters. So if it turns out there will be a new show, there's a good chance I will like that one too.
But it probably would be something very different from what we had in the past. The show is massively character driven and relies a great deal on group interaction. With new characters, it can still be really good, but it just wouldn't be the same.

Yes, it is character driven, but look at the sheer number of loveable characters they made and populated the first story with. Even minor one like Iroh are just as intriguing as the main cast. I see no reason that they can't make a new cast of characters that create a connection with the audience just as good as the first cast.

[Lord Seth]

Yes, it is character driven, but look at the sheer number of loveable characters they made and populated the first story with. Even minor one like Iroh are just as intriguing as the main cast. I see no reason that they can't make a new cast of characters that create a connection with the audience just as good as the first cast.How the heck is Iroh a minor character?

[AstralFire]

I think the word Pink was looking for was 'supporting' rather than 'minor.'

[Pink]

I think the word Pink was looking for was 'supporting' rather than 'minor.'

*cough* this.

[John Cribati]

If nobody minds me bringing up the bending thing one more time, my personal theory is that Bending is determined by spirituality, but constrained by genetics. Two Fire Nation citizens might bring forth a firebender, even if they're not benders themselves, but there's no way, say, an earthbender would be naturally born from them.

[Zevox]

If nobody minds me bringing up the bending thing one more time, my personal theory is that Bending is determined by spirituality, but constrained by genetics. Two Fire Nation citizens might bring forth a firebender, even if they're not benders themselves, but there's no way, say, an earthbender would be naturally born from them.
That's pretty much what I figured as well. Genetics determine things insofar as which element you can bend goes, and perhaps your degree of inherent power at the art - more personal factors like spirituality do the rest.

Zevox

[Kobold-Bard]

I saw it like this:

- You can technically learn any bending discipline.
- Once you bend one element however the others are forever lost (unless you're the Avatar obviously).
- The nation you come from (and the spiritual and lifestyle/world view that go with it) makes it much easier to learn that particular element, so that's why people do so, though if a Fire Nation baby was adopted by the Water Tribe he could learn Water Bending, but if he didn't and a Fire Nation soldier came along he would be able to pick up Fire Bending much easier.

That probably makes sense, but is obvious and rubbish.

[AstralFire]

I like your theory, Deekin :smallamused:, and it's one I share; though I think Zevox's is more likely the correct one.

[Kobold-Bard]

I like your theory, Deekin :smallamused:, and it's one I share; though I think Zevox's is more likely the correct one.

...........I hate you more than human languages can describe, and unfortunately I don't know Abyssal.

You suck.

;P

[Zeful]

That's pretty much what I figured as well. Genetics determine things insofar as which element you can bend goes, and perhaps your degree of inherent power at the art - more personal factors like spirituality do the rest.

Zevox

I always saw the Bending constrained genetics to be much simpler. "The Bending Gene" doesn't determine how you bend, just that you can. In effect it's simply a toggle for the "Can Bend" boolean operation. Everything else is related to personality and philosophy. A citizen of the Fire nation, could potentially learn Airbending, depending on personality (see: Ty Lee) but citizens that fall into that group wouldn't be approached to learn Firebending, because they lack the personality traits that would allow them to Firebend, so their talent gets wasted, thus they never develop any bending.

In short:
If Can Bend==1 AND Born== ("Fire Nation") AND Personality== ("Fire")

Then: Can Firebend==1
Else: End

[The Shadowmind]

Could Toph gone on to teach metalbending to others? This could have a large impact on the technological level of the civilization.

[Kobold-Bard]

Could Toph gone on to teach metalbending to others? This could have a large impact on the technological level of the civilization.

Well she taught Aang Blindsight, so maybe if someone had enough talent at it she could teach them Metalbending too.

[Zevox]

I always saw the Bending constrained genetics to be much simpler. "The Bending Gene" doesn't determine how you bend, just that you can. In effect it's simply a toggle for the "Can Bend" boolean operation. Everything else is related to personality and philosophy. A citizen of the Fire nation, could potentially learn Airbending, depending on personality (see: Ty Lee) but citizens that fall into that group wouldn't be approached to learn Firebending, because they lack the personality traits that would allow them to Firebend, so their talent gets wasted, thus they never develop any bending.
Er, Ty Lee can't airbend. :smallconfused:

And that seems to go against what we see in the show. Benders of each type can come with a variety of personalities and philosophies - compare Katara to Hama or Pakku, or Bumi to The Boulder. Heck, Bumi's personality shares more in common with Aang's than with most Earth Kingdom people - carefree, creative, often juvenile. And if people from different nations could learn to bend elements other than their nation's, you'd expect people to have figured that out, and each nation to have a small subset of individuals in it who bend the other elements. Perhaps not in wartime Fire Nation, and perhaps you couldn't expect the other nations to allow the study of Firebending during the war, but I would expect that during times of peace, when each nation is willing to live in harmony with the others, there would be teachers willing to go to the other nations and find people who could be taught, and set up schools there. Thus we'd at least have seen some water and airbenders in the Earth Kingdom, even if the Water Tribes were too small to attract any airbenders and their terrain unsuited to earthbending.


Could Toph gone on to teach metalbending to others? This could have a large impact on the technological level of the civilization.
I'd imagine she could, but it would probably be difficult to master. They'd need to be extremely good at that tremorsense technique she uses to see in order to locate the impurities in the metal to bend, and would probably have to be pretty gifted benders to bend them even once they can find them.

Plus I don't know if she's really the type to settle down as a teacher. I see her as more likely to go around winning earthbending tournaments myself.

Zevox

[Zeful]

Er, Ty Lee can't airbend. :smallconfused:No she can't but was an example of the type of difference involved between personalities. She's very much a free spirit. More so than Bumi who still went on to become a king later.


but I would expect that during times of peace, when each nation is willing to live in harmony with the others, there would be teachers willing to go to the other nations and find people who could be taught, and set up schools there.I doubt that, while this is a different world than the earth cultures they were based on, I don't think many families would take to kindly to the thought that their child could bend another element other than their nation's.


Thus we'd at least have seen some water and airbenders in the Earth Kingdom, even if the Water Tribes were too small to attract any airbenders and their terrain unsuited to earthbending.First, there was no one around to teach airbending for 100 years. And the first benders learned their element from something else. So Airbenders are out of the question. Second, we did see waterbenders in the Earth Kingdom, who looked nothing like natives from either Water Tribe, in Foggy Swamp.

I feel that, given the evidence on the show, my theory is valid.

[John Cribati]

I can see a non-earthbender going into an earthbending Dojo to earn to firebend in Earthbending-style
http://piandao.org/screencaps/ep6/ep6-341.png
Just as Zuko took on some waterbending style with his firebending.

[Prime32]

Let's not forget the flashback where teen Sozen starts jokingly imitating different bending styles while talking to Roku.

EDIT: Random note.
Roku's VA gets a lot of work as a voiceover for movie trailers. His role in the series was basically to tell Aang about an event which was going to happen THIS SUMMER.

[Zevox]

I doubt that, while this is a different world than the earth cultures they were based on, I don't think many families would take to kindly to the thought that their child could bend another element other than their nation's.
Some, maybe, but I doubt all would be. Which is one reason I said the groups in each nation who learn to bend the other elements would be small.


First, there was no one around to teach airbending for 100 years. And the first benders learned their element from something else. So Airbenders are out of the question. Second, we did see waterbenders in the Earth Kingdom, who looked nothing like natives from either Water Tribe, in Foggy Swamp.
On the first, there would be in the scenario I was mentioning - bending each element isn't restricted by heritage, so teachers of each art go to the other nations. Thus there would be Air Nomads in the Earth Kingdom when the war began, and any Earth Kingdom students of theirs could pass the art on even if those Air Nomads were later wiped out as well. Heck, there would probably be a handful of Earth Kingdom born individuals who were master airbenders themselves, who could also teach the art.

On the swamp tribe, they seem to be an entirely different group from the rest of the Earth Kingdom - and indeed, one of them remarked that the fact that Katara could waterbend as well meant they were "kin," and Katara doesn't contradict him (she instead just looks disgusted), so it seems that the general understanding among them is that their bending of particular elements is passed on genetically. Most likely this would mean that the swamp tribe were descended from a third Water Tribe, or a group that emigrated from one of the two tribes to the Earth Kingdom.

Zevox

[cha0s4a11]

You sure about that? What I heard was that they said it is a combination of a few factors, including genetic and spiritual. Hence why they said any children of Aang and Katara's could potentially be air or waterbenders (or not benders at all), but not earth or firebenders, even though Aang can bend all four elements due to being the Avatar. This was also why the Air Nomads, the most spiritual of the nations, had a population where everyone was a bender, while the Fire Nation, the least spiritual of the nations, had the lowest number of benders relative to their population.

Sorry to back up to this far but I just spotted this thread and was reading through it and spotted this.

I would have pegged the Earth kingdom as having the lowest bender/population ratio for a couple of reasons:

1) Prevalence of non-bending Earth Kingdom military forces (Kyoshi Warriors; Thuggish Earth kingdom sentries in Zuko, Alone; etc) vs non-bending Fire Nation forces (Piandao, who rarely teaches and when he does, teaches regardless of what nation that person is from; Ty Lee who probably learned chi-blocking from the circus, not from Fire Nation military; Mai who can use throwing knives; and I believe that is it.) While I can name groups of non-bending forces for the Earth Kingdom and Water Tribe, I can't for the Fire Nation, where it would seem that every soldier (in a pretty military based culture) can bend fire.

2) Counterbalance with the natural prevalence of benders for the Air Nomads. The Earth Kingdom would be more "down to earth" and "grounded" and thus a lower bender/population ratio. This is compensated for by larger amounts of Earth Kingdom territory and (given no sign that Fire Nation has a significantly greater population density than the Earth Kingdom) probably more population total, resulting in a similar amount of benders.

If I had to guess at where each of the nations stood as far as bender/population ratio, I'd guess:

Air >>> Fire > Water > Earth

I would guess that this is contradicted somewhere, I just don't know where.

Also, as far as the Live Action movie goes, I'm currently using "What the Ember Island Players Would Have Made With Modern CGI" as a baseline for whether it is good or not.

[Pink]

Also, as far as the Live Action movie goes, I'm currently using "What the Ember Island Players Would Have Made With Modern CGI" as a baseline for whether it is good or not.

That line is made of win and awesome.

[Zevox]

I would have pegged the Earth kingdom as having the lowest bender/population ratio for a couple of reasons:
An interview with the creators linked to earlier confirmed that, actually - although the actual reason was because they have the largest population, due to being the largest nation. My second-hand knowledge was wrong in that regard.


Ty Lee who probably learned chi-blocking from the circus, not from Fire Nation military
I'd actually wager that she has some formal martial arts training which taught her that myself. That doesn't seem like something you'd learn in a circus, and she was a noble, so she could probably have access to whatever sort of teachers she'd want in that regard, assuming parental approval. That may also explain where her interest in acrobatics developed from, which ultimately lead to her running away to the circus.

Strictly speculation of course, but it seems sensible to me.


While I can name groups of non-bending forces for the Earth Kingdom and Water Tribe, I can't for the Fire Nation, where it would seem that every soldier (in a pretty military based culture) can bend fire.
There were non-benders among the Fire Nation forces seen during season 1, especially among Zuko's crew and during the Siege of the North. They mostly fought with spears. And the Fire Nation military forces that we saw after season 1 were mostly elites - Azula's entourage at the start of season 2, and the forces guarding the capital city and the Boiling Rock in season 3.

Edit: Also, the Yu Yan Archers.

Zevox

[SpiderMew]

I was wondering. If an earth bender studied some fire and water bending moves, would that equal lava or magma bending?

[Zevox]

I was wondering. If an earth bender studied some fire and water bending moves, would that equal lava or magma bending?
Correct answer: we have no idea.

Speculative answer: I doubt it. If there's any way to bend lava or magma, I'd imagine it would require both fire and earth bending - meaning either two benders or the Avatar. Studying different bending styles seems more to allow creating techniques to do things with your own element you might not otherwise think to do, as the one example we have is Iroh taking the waterbenders' propensity for turning their opponents' force against them by redirection and applying it to lightning.

Zevox

[SpiderMew]

I think both an earthbender and a fire bender could move it.

Its like how both a water bender and earth bender can move mud.

Lava is just a fire mud if you think about it.

[Pink]

Correct answer: we have no idea.

Speculative answer: I doubt it. If there's any way to bend lava or magma, I'd imagine it would require both fire and earth bending - meaning either two benders or the Avatar. Studying different bending styles seems more to allow creating techniques to do things with your own element you might not otherwise think to do, as the one example we have is Iroh taking the waterbenders' propensity for turning their opponents' force against them by redirection and applying it to lightning.

Zevox

I don't think it would be impossible for a strong enough earth bender willing to learn some water bending techniques. Water benders are able to control things made mostly out of water, the plant golem and on full moons blood bending, why shouldn't an earthbender be unable to control liquid earth because of it's temperature?

Speculative thought: If water benders indeed, did learn their bending in imitation of the tide, would that make it the most human centered bending, and therefore the easiest to learn or employ it's techniques into other bending?

[The Rose Dragon]

Can they? I was of the opinion that a waterbender could take away the water away from mud and bend that, but couldn't bend it while retaining the impurities.

[SpiderMew]

Can they? I was of the opinion that a waterbender could take away the water away from mud and bend that, but couldn't bend it while retaining the impurities.

They can, they can also bend the water thats in plants and do wood/vine bending.

[Zevox]

I think both an earthbender and a fire bender could move it.

Its like how both a water bender and earth bender can move mud.

Lava is just a fire mud if you think about it.
Actually, Lava is just extreme hot rock, so hot it is in liquid form. Mud is an actual mixture of dirt and water, hence why both water and earthbenders can bend it. I was mostly assuming that firebending would be used for it due to the general fire theme associated with lava/magma due to its heat - if you want to get more scientific, it should be an earthbending thing, if at all.

But my main thought is that we saw lava struggled against twice during the series - once in season 1, when Aang and the others helped the fortune teller's village survive an eruption; once in season 3, when we saw Roku's ultimate fate in his flashback. In Aang's case he couldn't yet bend anything but air and a little water at that point, so we can write off the fact that he only used airbending there. But Roku was a fully realized Avatar, and he still only manipulated the magma with airbending. This means either it can't be manipulated with bending at all, or the technique to do so is obscure enough that he didn't know it - and neither did any of his past lives, since he did briefly enter the Avatar State during that event.


Speculative thought: If water benders indeed, did learn their bending in imitation of the tide, would that make it the most human centered bending, and therefore the easiest to learn or employ it's techniques into other bending?
Perhaps you could clarify that a bit, because I'm not sure what you mean "the most human centered bending" or why this would cause the conclusions you mention.


Can they? I was of the opinion that a waterbender could take away the water away from mud and bend that, but couldn't bend it while retaining the impurities.
Remember Katara and Toph's mud fight in season 3? Katara bent the mud during the fight, splashing Toph in the face with it once; Toph bent it afterward to quickly clean herself off. So yes, both water and earthbenders can bend mud.

Zevox

[The Rose Dragon]

They can, they can also bend the water thats in plants and do wood/vine bending.

Bending plants makes sense, since plant cells have cellular walls to prevent dehydration from deforming the plants. Mud has no such justification.

[Pink]

Just because an avatar doesn't know how to do it, doesn't mean it can't be done or is just yet to be discovered. Toph's metal bending for instance. I think it should also be noted that the concept of combining bending techniques outside there element may also be something that just never occurred to avatars before, as Zuku teaches Aang the lightning redirection technique.

As for the human centered learning is, I mean, well, we know for certain the other bendings originate from specific creatures, and by learning from them directly one is able to regain the most pure and potent forms of bending. Water is a bit of a toss-up, because while we have the moon fishies, we never actually see them bend, so it's reasonable to think that this is something that could just be inherently human discovered and created. Maybe this means nothing, or maybe this means that it is a more universal method than other bending, or has techniques that can be used in greater application. We know it can at least be used in conjunction with firebending to great effect. Anyway, just speculation.

[Zevox]

Just because an avatar doesn't know how to do it, doesn't mean it can't be done or is just yet to be discovered. Toph's metal bending for instance.
Hence why I said it either couldn't be done or was so obscure that neither Roku nor any of his past lives knew how to.


I think it should also be noted that the concept of combining bending techniques outside there element may also be something that just never occurred to avatars before, as Zuku teaches Aang the lightning redirection technique.
True, but Aang didn't have access to the Avatar State at the time - he had to learn everything for himself. We don't know if any of his past lives might have known that. The one time he faced a lightning bolt in the Avatar State was Azula's sneak attack that nearly killed him.


Water is a bit of a toss-up, because while we have the moon fishies, we never actually see them bend, so it's reasonable to think that this is something that could just be inherently human discovered and created.
We do see the Moon Spirit waterbend, actually. Yue creates a huge wave to help speed Aang along towards the Fire Nation in the first episode of season 3. Plus the Ocean Spirit seems perfectly capable of waterbending during the season 1 finale even after it leaves Aang on the shore - it kills Zhao by itself, after all.

Zevox

[AstralFire]

Didn't Roku magmabend to remake the Tower of Sages or w/e, according to the web episode that detailed Aang restoring the Avatar connection?

I think the volcano was a matter of the strength of the source.

[John Cribati]

Plus the Ocean Spirit seems perfectly capable of waterbending during the season 1 finale even after it leaves Aang on the shore - it kills Zhao by itself, after all.

I always justified the "Waterbending without the moon" as "ocean-bending." The very spirit of the ocean was simply commanding its physical manifestation, just as our brains control our movement, using Aang as a catalyst.

Just my 2 cents.

[Zevox]

Didn't Roku magmabend to remake the Tower of Sages or w/e, according to the web episode that detailed Aang restoring the Avatar connection?

I think the volcano was a matter of the strength of the source.
*pops in bonus disc from season 2 to check* Nope. Roku's story there details his difficulties learning to master the Avatar State - the fire sage says he'll have to rebuild the temple at the end there, but they don't show him doing that.

But now that you mention it, he did seem to bend magma when his spirit filled in for Aang in the Avatar State during the Winter Solstice episodes. But then again that may just have been earthbending (and maybe some firebending for the floors of the temple) to open cracks through which the magma was pushed by natural pressures.


I always justified the "Waterbending without the moon" as "ocean-bending." The very spirit of the ocean was simply commanding its physical manifestation, just as our brains control our movement, using Aang as a catalyst.
Apparently not even necessarily requiring Aang as a catalyst, since it still worked just fine after dropping him off. Still, point taken - the more important part was that we did see the Moon Spirit waterbend.

Zevox

[Zeful]

Apparently not even necessarily requiring Aang as a catalyst, since it still worked just fine after dropping him off. Still, point taken - the more important part was that we did see the Moon Spirit waterbend.

When did we see the moon spirit waterbend? I remember the Ocean Spirit throwing the smack-down on the Fire Nation navy, but not the moon spirit doing anything.

[cha0s4a11]

They can, they can also bend the water thats in plants and do wood/vine bending.

Only wood that is part of a tree or plant that is currently living, I think.

Otherwise the wooden cell that Katara and Toph were stuck in during the episode where Toph was scamming people for money would have presented far less of an obstacle.

[Zevox]

When did we see the moon spirit waterbend? I remember the Ocean Spirit throwing the smack-down on the Fire Nation navy, but not the moon spirit doing anything.
As I mentioned a few posts ago, we see Yue create a massive wave to help speed Aang along to the Fire Nation in the first episode of season 3.


Only wood that is part of a tree or plant that is currently living, I think.
Actually, we never see waterbenders control wood at all. And they probably can't - it's too rigid to move with the water in it. What we do see is the swampbenders bending the water in vines to effectively control them, but they're much more flexible than wood. And we see Hama teach Katara to pull water out of any plant, but that kills the plant in the process, it doesn't grant control.

Zevox

[cha0s4a11]

Actually, we never see waterbenders control wood at all. And they probably can't - it's too rigid to move with the water in it. What we do see is the swampbenders bending the water in vines to effectively control them, but they're much more flexible than wood. And we see Hama teach Katara to pull water out of any plant, but that kills the plant in the process, it doesn't grant control.


Ah. Point taken.


A couple things that I would like to see in a new Avatar series set a couple+ hundred years after Aang defeating Ozai:

1) Air Nomad Assassins: Seriously, they would be awesome at it and a real tough enemy to contend with. All they would need to do is trap someone in an enclosed space and bend out the air. Sure the monks would be greatly against doing that sort of thing, but there should be some evil air-benders in a rebuilt nation of Air Nomads.

2) History Gags: If any of the main characters are stuck in school for a day (like Aang was in Season 3) they should hear something about how "While the evil Fire Lord Ozai was defeated by the Avatar, Ozai's daughter Azula was defeated by then Prince Zuko, who enlisted the aid of the Painted Lady spirit to help him win the battle. Ozai's entire airship fleet was destroyed singlehandedly through the swordmanship and tactical genius of Wang Fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Fire)". Something about having history which gets the big events right but is off about the details makes me laugh.

[Zevox]

A couple things that I would like to see in a new Avatar series set a couple+ hundred years after Aang defeating Ozai:

1) Air Nomad Assassins: Seriously, they would be awesome at it and a real tough enemy to contend with. All they would need to do is trap someone in an enclosed space and bend out the air. Sure the monks would be greatly against doing that sort of thing, but there should be some evil air-benders in a rebuilt nation of Air Nomads.
Hm, could be either very interesting or very stupid, depending on how well they pull off the explanation for their origins and motives - which would itself be directly dependent on how they work the situation with the airbenders after Aang - and how well-developed the individual characters involved were. I do doubt we'd see them actually kill anyone that way though. However many adult-level themes the creators work into the show, it is still theoretically a kid's show, so showing an actual assassination is unlikely.

I also think I should point out that there wouldn't be a full rebuilt nation of Air Nomads just a couple centuries later, though - unless Aang could use energybending to restore their numbers or Aappa turned out to be able to teach a hell of a lot of non-benders to airbend, anyway.


2) History Gags: If any of the main characters are stuck in school for a day (like Aang was in Season 3) they should hear something about how "While the evil Fire Lord Ozai was defeated by the Avatar, Ozai's daughter Azula was defeated by then Prince Zuko, who enlisted the aid of the Painted Lady spirit to help him win the battle. Ozai's entire airship fleet was destroyed singlehandedly through the swordmanship and tactical genius of Wang Fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Fire)". Something about having history which gets the big events right but is off about the details makes me laugh.
Heh, that could indeed be funny.

Zevox

[John Cribati]

I read somewhere that Bryke planned for Appa to actually be female and pregnant with a whole litter of baby Sky Bison, but decided against it. Not sure if they could have pulled it off right, IMHO.

[Kobold-Bard]

Hence why I said it either couldn't be done or was so obscure that neither Roku nor any of his past lives knew how to.


...

Don't we see a past Fire Nation Avatar explode a load of volcanoes? I think when Roku is explaining the Avatar State to Aang. So somewhere down the line one of them figured it out.

[Zevox]

I read somewhere that Bryke planned for Appa to actually be female and pregnant with a whole litter of baby Sky Bison, but decided against it. Not sure if they could have pulled it off right, IMHO.
Yeah, that does sound like a needless complication that would've been difficult to do right. Plus it'd seem awfully convenient that the one Sky Bison who survived the start of the war due to being the Avatar's animal guide happened to be a pregnant female.


Don't we see a past Fire Nation Avatar explode a load of volcanoes? I think when Roku is explaining the Avatar State to Aang. So somewhere down the line one of them figured it out.
Hm, you know, I do believe you're right about that.

Zevox

[dehro]

I saw it like this:

- You can technically learn any bending discipline.
- Once you bend one element however the others are forever lost (unless you're the Avatar obviously).
- The nation you come from (and the spiritual and lifestyle/world view that go with it) makes it much easier to learn that particular element, so that's why people do so, though if a Fire Nation baby was adopted by the Water Tribe he could learn Water Bending, but if he didn't and a Fire Nation soldier came along he would be able to pick up Fire Bending much easier.

That probably makes sense, but is obvious and rubbish.
uhm... no, I don't see that we have an example of this anywhere, so I really don't see how you can support such a theory


Yeah, that does sound like a needless complication that would've been difficult to do right. Plus it'd seem awfully convenient that the one Sky Bison who survived the start of the war due to being the Avatar's animal guide happened to be a pregnant female.


more in keeping with having different themes for different episodes, appa could feel some sort of "call of nature" and find a valley of surviving air bisons hidden away somewhere...

I must agree with zevox with regards to how bending and nationality are linked...it's the most rational explanation and it's coherent with all we have seen so far.

if Iroh didn't learn to waterbend using waterbending techniques, I honestly doubt anybody else but the Avatar could learn to bend an element alien to their genetic makeup (I was going to say nationality, but swamp people are in the wrong nation for that...and yes, I believe they somehow descend from one of the water tribes)

as for the bending of wood... all we see is swamp people (and not even all of them, I assume that the bloke I quote in my siggy is the strongest of the lot) bending vines... there are a lot of vines that are herbaceous (bamboo falls under that category too)..in other words, they're a grass (mostly made of water).. I'm no botanist, but..doesn't that mean that wood doesn't really come into it?

on that note...I'd be interested to see what the "hyper element" of airbending is.
firebending to the max gives electricity/lightning bending (although I'm not really sure "how"...I mean..electricity and fire? what's the link?)
hardcore waterbending allows for bloodbending (although it's questionable whether that isn't simply a nasty trick as opposed to an actual different class of bending) and swampy stuff bending, to which the same objection applies (and if that's the case, what is the next step up the ladder?)
really strong earthbending skills gives access to metalbending
how about air? what could be the VIP/elite form of airbending?

[Zevox]

on that note...I'd be interested to see what the "hyper element" of airbending is.
firebending to the max gives electricity/lightning bending (although I'm not really sure "how"...I mean..electricity and fire? what's the link?)
hardcore waterbending allows for bloodbending (although it's questionable whether that isn't simply a nasty trick as opposed to an actual different class of bending) and swampy stuff bending, to which the same objection applies (and if that's the case, what is the next step up the ladder?)
really strong earthbending skills gives access to metalbending
how about air? what could be the VIP/elite form of airbending?
I don't really think there's supposed to be a "hyper element" to each.

Waterbending can bend blood because blood is mostly water anyway, and waterbending has been shown to be able to bend water in any form it takes - solid (ice), liquid, gas (vapor), mixed with other substances (i.e. mud), the works.

Earthbending can bend metal by bending impurities within the metal that are still mostly earth, thereby forcing the metal around those impurities to bend with them.

Firebending's creation of lightning is a little odd, even with the full explanation we get of it from Iroh. Apparently firebenders can manipulate the energy in the air around them, based on his explanation (separate positive and negative energy, when those energies come crashing back together they will create lightning). Maybe that's linked to the reason why they don't need pre-existing fire to bend, but can create their own? Still, I suppose there's some thematic link there, since both are destructive sources of heat and energy - and I did like Iroh's nickname for it, "the cold-blooded fire."

There isn't really anything comparable to any of those I can imagine for airbending. Theoretically airbending should allow the bending of any gas, but I can't really imagine anything special you could manipulate with that.

Zevox

[SpiderMew]

I don't really think there's supposed to be a "hyper element" to each.

Waterbending can bend blood because blood is mostly water anyway, and waterbending has been shown to be able to bend water in any form it takes - solid (ice), liquid, gas (vapor), mixed with other substances (i.e. mud), the works.

Earthbending can bend metal by bending impurities within the metal that are still mostly earth, thereby forcing the metal around those impurities to bend with them.

Firebending's creation of lightning is a little odd, even with the full explanation we get of it from Iroh. Apparently firebenders can manipulate the energy in the air around them, based on his explanation (separate positive and negative energy, when those energies come crashing back together they will create lightning). Maybe that's linked to the reason why they don't need pre-existing fire to bend, but can create their own? Still, I suppose there's some thematic link there, since both are destructive sources of heat and energy - and I did like Iroh's nickname for it, "the cold-blooded fire."

There isn't really anything comparable to any of those I can imagine for airbending. Theoretically airbending should allow the bending of any gas, but I can't really imagine anything special you could manipulate with that.

Zevox

The power to bend farts back into the nose of the one who delt it.

I would imagine, the epic level use of airbending, would be weather manipulation. Moving the storms and starting them by creating powerful currents and what not. Or maybe making sonic booms or something.

[AstralFire]

A few people have speculated (and I used, for both Avatar 3.5 and Avatar Saga Edition) that soundbending is Air's special trick that depends more on skill than raw power.

[Zevox]

I would imagine, the epic level use of airbending, would be weather manipulation. Moving the storms and starting them by creating powerful currents and what not. Or maybe making sonic booms or something.
Doubt either. We know that bending clouds requires waterbending. Airbending could be used to push them along, but not really manipulate the start or end of storms. Of course airbending could create tornadoes, but that's not news - Aang created what amounted to small tornadoes all the time, and the occasional not-so-small one, such as during his fight with Bumi. And sonic booms require some object to pass the speed of sound, creating a pressure wave in the air - I doubt that could be replicated just with airbending, unless you could actually use airbending to push something past the speed of sound, in which case you're not really creating the sonic boom with the bending itself, are you?


A few people have speculated (and I used, for both Avatar 3.5 and Avatar Saga Edition) that soundbending is Air's special trick that depends more on skill than raw power.
:smallconfused: How would that work?

Zevox

[SpiderMew]

If your using airbending to push something faster then sound, then yes, you are creating the sonic boom with airbending.

Also sound travles easyest though air, and probaly with skillfull bending, one could throw his voice thousands of feat away or mute someone by not allowing the air to pass though his meaty flaps that controll sound, or perhaps out of the targets mouth

[Lillith]

So I started reading this thread a whole while in but I have to go soon so I am sorry if this has already been mentioned. What I was wondering about the theory of survival of the Airbenders is if anybody remembers the predictions that were made to Katara by that seer. If I remember correctly it was predicted that Katara would die peacefully while being surrounded by her billions of kids, grandkids and great grandkids. Not only does that suggest that she and Aang were pretty busy, but also that in three generations there is a vast Aang descendants group after him already.

[dehro]

So I started reading this thread a whole while in but I have to go soon so I am sorry if this has already been mentioned. What I was wondering about the theory of survival of the Airbenders is if anybody remembers the predictions that were made to Katara by that seer. If I remember correctly it was predicted that Katara would die peacefully while being surrounded by her billions of kids, grandkids and great grandkids. Not only does that suggest that she and Aang were pretty busy, but also that in three generations there is a vast Aang descendants group after him already.

true, but that would still mean we're talking about basically... a family, as opposed to a nation/village, however small. personally, I find it a little less interesting than a more complex setting..anyhoo..personal tastes.

@zevox, yes, I agree there doesn't need to be an epic level of bending...but it would be cute :P
and if we accept there to be an epic level at all, it need not be a different element altogether, as rather an application of the bending of element of choice open only to the most powerful adepts
firebending vs lightningbending is a little controversial, as I suspect it's mostly a case of "Rule of cool trumping a rational explanation"(edit: there is however blue fire bending, which is of course not lightning but still elite), but swampbending, bloodbending and metalbending would fall nicely in this definition.
and on that note, lol to fartbending:smallbiggrin:

[Prime32]

On "soundbending", there was an episode where Aang used airbending to blow a whistle really hard.

[SuperPanda]

Metal bending, Lightning, Blood bending, Sand bending, redirecting lightning all had very good in universe explanations for their manifestations that lined up well with the spiritual science that bending seems to represent.

Sound bending would kill that for me (Energy bending as an Avatar only ability didn't because of the great bridge idea... the way it was introduced however did kill what was in itself a good resolution).

Sound, however you want to dice it, is vibration. It travels in water, it travels through ground, it is a form of kinetic energy (Fire), and it travels in air.

Using Air bending to mess with sounds - Cool and great idea... but other benders can do that too.

Vacuum would make for a great advancement of air bending. You not only master the flow of air, you can tell it where not to be. Things like a tornado can create a vacuum but they require an enormous about of power. Being able to just part the air and make a zone of nothing in the sky would be a sign of incredible skill and very powerful. You could use it make powerful sonic booms and air blasts(when you release the ability), zones of silence (sound can't travel if it never crosses the barrier) and such which "sound bending" would do so long as they don't describe it as bending sound itself.

[Xondoure]

Not sure if this has been posted or not, but what makes us so sure that Kora is the main character? It could be a new continent, or some mysterious new power, or who knows. Sure, the protagonist's name seems the most likely but it's always possible it could be something else.

Edit: That said, if it is the name of the character. Then I want to see the First Waterbender. As the discovery of bending would be soooo cool.

[Zeful]

Vacuum would make for a great advancement of air bending. You not only master the flow of air, you can tell it where not to be. Things like a tornado can create a vacuum but they require an enormous about of power. Being able to just part the air and make a zone of nothing in the sky would be a sign of incredible skill and very powerful. You could use it make powerful sonic booms and air blasts(when you release the ability), zones of silence (sound can't travel if it never crosses the barrier) and such which "sound bending" would do so long as they don't describe it as bending sound itself.

I shot the same suggestion down on Tvtropes. Airbending to create a vacuum would be very, very impractical. Every instance of Airbending in the show start from Aang and move outward. For Aang to create a vaccum, he has to be on the edge of it. This places him within arm's reach of whoever he's trying to use this on. A more appropraite combat skill would be very thin wind blades that move very, very fast allowing very precise and small cuts.

[SuperPanda]

I completely agree on Vacuum being an impractical application of Air bending, at the very least as far as using it in an attack.

Honestly I don't think there is an "upgrade" for air that makes sense at this is likely the reason that one hadn't been introduced somehow in the series.

When you look at the way its used in the show, Air is already incredibly versatile. It doesn't really need to get any better.

If there is an "upgrade" for air bending then I hope it comes from a well explained source. Like Toph discovering metal bending through bending impurity in the metal, or vine bending.

Thinking about the martial art basis for air bending though, Ba Gua doesn't really lend itself to "air blades". Air needles, or small compressed air blasts aimed for pressure points and joints fit Ba Gua very well, so potentially a ranged version of Tai Lee could come out of that style, especially if the benders.

As impractical as Vacuum would be, I could greatly prefer it to "sound" which while much more potentially useful/awesome would kill the mood bending has had for me to this point unless it was explained very well and the uses were limited to what made sense by that explanation. Without assuming a future air bender will be able to control individual air molecules instead of air as a mass, I don't see how Sound could be "bent" A Vaccum on the other hand is on the same lines as a water bender holding the water away from themselves... only in this case its next to foolish and useless.

[Revlid]

You know, I'd like to see more esoteric forms of bending. Combustion Man, for example, was able to channel specialised firebending through his tattoo, eschewing the normal katas - stuff like that. Bendertech, if you will.

Of course, I'd also like to see Shriek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeAIWRZ1Zs8)meets the Listening Monks (http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Listening_Monks)as an Airbending villain, so take that with a pinch of salt.

And Aang didn't exactly finish his Airbender training, despite his apparent "mastery" - there's lots of stuff he could have missed. Having an Airbender learn Vacuumbending by adapting Earthbending stances (in the same way that Iroh adapted Waterbending stances to get to redirecting lightning) would be cool - he raises his arms, and one leg, and stomps forward, pulling them down to his chest. Around him, people start choking.

If you wanted to take it further and darker and have the Airbenders as an organized villain group... Well, I wouldn't like to see what a group of Airbenders could do with poison gas.

[Prime32]

Well, there's always the techniques which use airbending for cutting, which airbenders swear to use only on inanimate objects.

[SpiderMew]

I prefer to call him "Sparkey-Sparkey-BOOM Man"

[Zevox]

Not sure if this has been posted or not, but what makes us so sure that Kora is the main character? It could be a new continent, or some mysterious new power, or who knows. Sure, the protagonist's name seems the most likely but it's always possible it could be something else.
Because it follows the exact same name convention used for the European English and Australian versions of the first show - Avatar: The Legend of Aang. Makes any other explanation seem incredibly unlikely.


You know, I'd like to see more esoteric forms of bending. Combustion Man, for example, was able to channel specialised firebending through his tattoo, eschewing the normal katas - stuff like that. Bendertech, if you will.
I'd rather just forget Combustion Man ever existed, thanks (and hey, with how pointless he was to the story, it's actually not that hard). I don't know what they were thinking with him and his weird powers.

Zevox

[The Glyphstone]

I'd rather just forget Combustion Man ever existed, thanks (and hey, with how pointless he was to the story, it's actually not that hard). I don't know what they were thinking with him and his weird powers.

Zevox

I'd rather they had expanded on him. As it is, Combustion Man was an irrelevant side character, but I think it would have been very cool if he had actually been developed a bit, weird powers and all.

[Zevox]

I'd rather they had expanded on him. As it is, Combustion Man was an irrelevant side character, but I think it would have been very cool if he had actually been developed a bit, weird powers and all.
Perhaps if they had developed him at all, I'd agree with you. As it is, he's worse than an irrelevant side character (you can, and the show did, have good irrelevant side characters, after all). He's an irrelevant side character with no personality, no apparent motivation, and an odd power that doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the world, who was set up as though he were going to be important but then just used as an excuse for a couple of action scenes and summarily discarded as soon as he had outlived that narrow purpose.

So yeah, I'd rather just leave him behind and never look back, personally.

Zevox

[Kobold-Bard]

They should have him make a League of Evil with Hanna, the loony who tried to force Aang to Avatar State and Appa's evil twin (since we saw
no evil Airbenders).

They'd fight the White Lotus in a big multi-nation battle royale :biggrin:

[Lord Seth]

Because it follows the exact same name convention used for the European English and Australian versions of the first show - Avatar: The Legend of Aang. Makes any other explanation seem incredibly unlikely.Well, there's actually a big precedent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_Of_Zelda) for a name like "The Legend of Korra" to not actually have Korra be the main character...

[GenPol]

With Combustion Man, I would have either liked for him not to exist, or to at least be provided with a backstory. I didn't really like the way they just sort of threw him in there without any context.

....

My two copper pieces. :smalltongue:

[Zevox]

They should have him make a League of Evil with Hanna, the loony who tried to force Aang to Avatar State and Appa's evil twin (since we saw
no evil Airbenders).

They'd fight the White Lotus in a big multi-nation battle royale :biggrin:
Honestly, both of those characters (that were actually in the show) provide good counter-examples to Combustion Man - story-irrelevant side characters who were actually well-executed.

The General from the first season 2 episode who wanted to force Aang into the Avatar State especially is a good example. He served multiple purposes. On the most basic level, he enabled us to learn more about the Avatar State, so we knew how exactly it actually worked, and what risk it carried. But he was more than that. He reminded us, and perhaps more importantly Aang, of how deadly serious the war is, by showing us some of the wounded - and reminding us that "they're the lucky ones," that people die every day in this conflict. He thus had a motivation for what he did that not only made sense, but that you could sympathize with, as Aang did. He went too far in pursuit of his goal and proved a fool in doing so, but that's just him being human - and in doing so he also provided us one of our examples of an Earth Kingdom person who was flawed rather than just a "good guy" ally for the team, yet who was also not really a villain. If he were more important, he might have been a tragic figure, like Jet. He was a side character, and utterly irrelevant to the story, but he was a good character who enhanced the show in other ways.

Hama is not as good an example, but still better than Combustion Man. On the most basic level, she provides us with a flawed, even "evil," Water Tribe character, and serves as a good contrast to Katara. She also explains to us exactly what happened to the Southern Tribe's waterbenders, something that had been a mystery ever since Katara proclaimed herself the only waterbender in the south pole in the very first episode. And she teaches Katara bloodbending, which, while under-utilized, does provide a single powerful moment in a future episode, when she unhesitatingly uses it on the man she believes to be her mother's murderer even though she had previously been horrified by it even when she had used it only briefly and only to save Aang's life. And Hama had a decent motivation: revenge for what the Fire Nation did to her and her people. How that translates into her excessive desire to teach Katara bloodbending is flimsier, but also there - she wanted Katara to have, and be willing to use, every weapon she could against the Fire Nation, and bloodbending was her greatest weapon. I have a few complaints about her, sure, but she was a decent side character who served several good purposes even though she was ultimately irrelevant to the main story, which is far more than I can say for Combustion Man.

In contrast, Combustion Man had no personality - not so much as a single line of dialogue, and nothing that could be gleaned from his actions or expressions. He had no discernible motivation - he was hired by Zuko, but it doesn't seem that money motivated him, given Zuko both threatened not to pay him and offered him more to stop attacking in that last encounter; it seems unlikely that he continued out of some sort of professional pride, since it was his employer who was calling him off; and with no further knowledge of him, we have absolutely no clue what else could have been motivating his actions at the end there - anything else would be shot-in-the-dark speculation (heck, the professional pride thing was shot-in-the-dark speculation itself). And he had apower which don't seem to fit with the rest of the world - it uses fire (or more specifically, explosions), but doesn't seem anything like firebending, since he displays only the one ability, and it has that strange "backfiring" problem after he's hit in the head that is unlike anything we see among any bending styles. Not to mention that firebending itself tends not to explode on its own, which is why Azula would use lightning when she needed to bust through things. And the sole purpose he served was to provide a few action scenes in the first half of the season. Sure, you could argue he helped the group accept Zuko, but that could have easily been accomplished with Toph's willingness to risk taking him on combined with Aang's hesitation on the matter - or, you know, the group just taking Zuko hostage as they were going to before Combustion Man showed up, then slowly growing to trust him.


Well, there's actually a big precedent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_Of_Zelda) for a name like "The Legend of Korra" to not actually have Korra be the main character...
Lets see here, completely unrelated video game name, or an alternate name for the show's predecessor, which is more likely to indicate whether the name in the title is the main character's or not?


With Combustion Man, I would have either liked for him not to exist, or to at least be provided with a backstory. I didn't really like the way they just sort of threw him in there without any context.

....

My two copper pieces. :smalltongue:
That would certainly have helped, yes. Maybe with a backstory he might have had, I don't know, a motivation. Or some discernible character traits.

Zevox

[Prime32]

He had no discernible motivation - he was hired by Zuko, but it doesn't seem that money motivated him, given Zuko both threatened not to pay him and offered him more to stop attacking in that last encounter; it seems unlikely that he continued out of some sort of professional pride, since it was his employer who was calling him off; and with no further knowledge of him, we have absolutely no clue what else could have been motivating his actions at the end thereI thought Azula started paying him after Zuko ran off.

[thubby]

With Combustion Man, I would have either liked for him not to exist, or to at least be provided with a backstory. I didn't really like the way they just sort of threw him in there without any context.

My two copper pieces. :smalltongue:

i don't think he needed a story, he was a mercenary out for money.
i would have liked to see him get a better final fight than "he explodes himself... again"

[GenPol]

i don't think he needed a story, he was a mercenary out for money.
i would have liked to see him get a better final fight than "he explodes himself... again"

He pretty much was that, but I felt he was too unique to just be thrown in as a random mercenary. He was interesting enough to warrant a backstory, interesting enough to appear to be sort of out of place as as some random mercenary.

[The Glyphstone]

i don't think he needed a story, he was a mercenary out for money.
i would have liked to see him get a better final fight than "he explodes himself... again"

That's just it. He was cool, intriguing, unusual. He needed a story. He didn't get one, all he got was 'mercenary for money'.

[Zevox]

I thought Azula started paying him after Zuko ran off.
There's no indication of that in the show. As far as it shows, Azula never knew he existed. Heck, his death occurs in the episode immediately following Zuko's departure, so there's practically no time for that to occur.


i don't think he needed a story, he was a mercenary out for money.
Except, you know, for the part where ignored Zuko threatening not to pay him/offering to pay him more to stop.

Zevox

[Lord Seth]

I didn't like Hama or whatever her name was much. Her entire episode is devoted to setting up an ultimately pointless technique, and while her character was slightly interesting, we had already been over this--and over it in a better way--with Jet. She wasn't even the kind of "evil" waterbender I'd be interested in; what I would've loved to see was waterbenders or earthbenders working willingly for the Fire Nation. As in, ones who agree with the Fire Nation and are on their side. We've seen Firebenders that have defected so I'm a bit disappointed that I don't believe we saw any Earthbenders or Waterbenders that were willingly the bad guys. But she still did have more personality than Combustion Man, even if her episode was ultimately yet another boring and pointless filler episode.


Lets see here, completely unrelated video game name, or an alternate name for the show's predecessor, which is more likely to indicate whether the name in the title is the main character's or not?Um, what I said was a joke.


I thought Azula started paying him after Zuko ran off.But as Zevox noted, that's a shot-in-in-the-dark speculation with no apparent basis in the show itself.

[Pink]

I didn't like Hama or whatever her name was much. Her entire episode is devoted to setting up an ultimately pointless technique, and while her character was slightly interesting, we had already been over this--and over it in a better way--with Jet. She wasn't even the kind of "evil" waterbender I'd be interested in; what I would've loved to see was waterbenders or earthbenders working willingly for the Fire Nation. As in, ones who agree with the Fire Nation and are on their side. We've seen Firebenders that have defected so I'm a bit disappointed that I don't believe we saw any Earthbenders or Waterbenders that were willingly the bad guys. But she still did have more personality than Combustion Man, even if her episode was ultimately yet another boring and pointless filler episode.


Dude, Azula totally commanded the elite earth bender soldiers as her personal body guards. The ones with the clay hands.

[Bryn]

The Dai Li, specifically. They were some pretty great villains.

[Lord Seth]

Dude, Azula totally commanded the elite earth bender soldiers as her personal body guards. The ones with the clay hands.But that was a case of them thinking "no sense being on the losing side, let's join with them." I was talking about Earthbenders that were in agreement with the Fire Nation and were loyal to it, not Earthbenders that just are loyal to whoever's currently on top of the heap.

[AstralFire]

While a lot of your criticisms make sense, I think the Dai Li did a fine job for showing evil Earthbenders.

[Lord Seth]

While a lot of your criticisms make sense, I think the Dai Li did a fine job for showing evil Earthbenders.Well they honestly barely did anything on-screen after joining Azula, if I remember correctly.

I don't know, I just thought it would be interesting to see Earthbenders who were on the Fire Nation's side not because the Fire Nation was the "top dog" or anything like that, but because they agreed with what it was trying to do.

[AstralFire]

I would much rather have seen Firebenders who were earnest true believers.

[Revlid]

I don't know, I just thought it would be interesting to see Earthbenders who were on the Fire Nation's side not because the Fire Nation was the "top dog" or anything like that, but because they agreed with what it was trying to do.
...Wipe out non-Firebenders?

I don't know. It doesn't seem like non-Firebenders would be able to reconcile very easily with that policy.

[AstralFire]

...Wipe out non-Firebenders?

I don't know. It doesn't seem like non-Firebenders would be able to reconcile very easily with that policy.

Not wipe out (until the end) - subjugate into an Empire for rapid technological and scientific advancement.

[Lord Seth]

...Wipe out non-Firebenders?

I don't know. It doesn't seem like non-Firebenders would be able to reconcile very easily with that policy.Except that was never the Fire Nation's goal. Their goal was pretty simple: Take over the world (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8u7px_GzWQ). So yes, they were going to take down any Earthbenders that got in their way, but I don't recall them ever trying to in fact wipe out Earthbenders specifically. The only times I remember anything even close to that was "Imprisoned" where it was illegal to Earthbend (but that was more of a security thing), or Ozai's plan in the finale, but that was to defeat the Earth Kingdom, not specifically get rid of Earthbenders. Yeah, they'd go after Earthbenders if they were enemies, but not Earthbenders in general. (of course, almost all Earthbenders were enemies, but again, they would go after them because they're enemies, not because they're Earthbenders)

[Prime32]

They also seemed to be trying to destroy the cultures of the lands they conquered.

[Pink]

There's also the general fact that they destroyed an entire race of benders that would kinda put people off from siding with them.

[Bryn]

Quotes from the Avatar Wiki on what Fire Lord Sozin said about the war before it started:

During the wedding, Sozin took Roku aside and remarked that the Fire Nation was going through a period of great prosperity. With him as the Fire Lord and Roku as the Avatar, he believed the two of them could spread the Fire Nation's influence and create an empire. Roku was greatly disturbed by this, telling Sozin that the Four Nations are meant to be kept separate and to abandon such thoughts.

One hundred and thirty eight years ago, Fire Lord Sozin began to feel that because his nation was so fortunate in so many ways, that he should "share" this prosperity with the rest of the world.
Will transcribe the exact quote (if it's still relevant) tomorrow.

Of course, 'what Sozin said' and 'what the Fire Nation did' are not necessarily the same.

[Zevox]

what I would've loved to see was waterbenders or earthbenders working willingly for the Fire Nation. As in, ones who agree with the Fire Nation and are on their side. We've seen Firebenders that have defected so I'm a bit disappointed that I don't believe we saw any Earthbenders or Waterbenders that were willingly the bad guys.
I kind of doubt that would be possible, outside of self-preservationists like the Dai Li. The Fire Nation were pretty clearly the aggressors in the war, with no real justification for their actions. Heck, the excuse they sold their own population - that they were out to "share their greatness with the world" - was so flimsy that it probably only worked because of the strong blind patriotic love of their nation they apparently instill in their people from a young age. Ultimately, the only characters who really believed in the Fire Nation's true goal of world conquest were those at the top ranks of the Fire Nation itself - the Firelords Sozin, Azulon, and Ozai; the top brass of their military such as Zhao; and Azula.


Um, what I said was a joke.
I kinda figured, but for some reason I wanted to respond with sarcasm anyway. No impulse control on that one I guess.

Zevox

[Xondoure]

Reposting first waterbender idea... anyone else think it would be cool to see the origin of bending in person?

[Zevox]

Maybe as something like a flashback episode, or a mini-series, or even comic book or something, but I don't think that alone could sustain a full cartoon series. Plus we already know a lot about bending, so the best time to make a series like that - when we'd be discovering everything right along with the characters - has passed.

Zevox

[Lord Seth]

I kind of doubt that would be possible, outside of self-preservationists like the Dai Li. The Fire Nation were pretty clearly the aggressors in the war, with no real justification for their actions. Heck, the excuse they sold their own population - that they were out to "share their greatness with the world" - was so flimsy that it probably only worked because of the strong blind patriotic love of their nation they apparently instill in their people from a young age. Ultimately, the only characters who really believed in the Fire Nation's true goal of world conquest were those at the top ranks of the Fire Nation itself - the Firelords Sozin, Azulon, and Ozai; the top brass of their military such as Zhao; and Azula.It was a more minor point on my part to be fair. I just felt there should have been more "spreading" of the powers. It seemed a bit too simplistic for me that (even if it fit their names) the bending powers seemed so regimented among the nations. But I suppose it's okay enough the way it was, I just wish there wasn't so much regimentation. Ah well.

Though if there were Earthbenders living in the Fire Nation and were loyal to it when the war started, I can see them buying into the premise and thinking they should get the Earthbenders in the Earth Kingdom to be like them.

[Xondoure]

It was a more minor point on my part to be fair. I just felt there should have been more "spreading" of the powers. It seemed a bit too simplistic for me that (even if it fit their names) the bending powers seemed so regimented among the nations. But I suppose it's okay enough the way it was, I just wish there wasn't so much regimentation. Ah well.

Though if there were Earthbenders living in the Fire Nation and were loyal to it when the war started, I can see them buying into the premise and thinking they should get the Earthbenders in the Earth Kingdom to be like them.

Isn't it pretty clearly stated that the firebenders found every other type of bending to be barbaric and crude in comparison to their graceful and magnificent art?

[Zevox]

Isn't it pretty clearly stated that the firebenders found every other type of bending to be barbaric and crude in comparison to their graceful and magnificent art?
I think you're confusing the one guy running the Earthbender prison for all Firebenders. None of the rest display that kind of snobbery - Azula is even quite happy to praise the Dai Li's "killer instinct," and Zhao warns the other military leaders under him that there's a good reason the Northern Water Tribe has survived a hundred years of war.

Zevox

[Teron]

Zhao gives a little speech about fire being "the superior element" in The Blue Spirit, though. It might just be another difference between what the people in charge know and what they tell the troops/populace; but Zhao, at least, is arrogant enough to believe what he said, and acknowledging that the Northern Water Tribe isn't entirely helpless doesn't contradict that. He thought he could beat them easily enough, anyway (and he did, more or less).

For that matter, most benders would probably tell you theirs is the best element. The philosophies associated with each bending style (I'm thinking of Bitter Work in particular) probably ensure that, Avatar aside, the kind of person who can learn a style would find it best suited to them.

[Revlid]

Airbenders - Complete genocide. Women, children, fighters and old men, all slaughtered.

Earthbenders - Earthbenders were rounded up and put in concentration camps. The Dai Li weren't purely because they were quislings who helped maintain order. The moment it's a feasible plan, Ozai decides to murder the entire Earth Kingdom with fire.

Waterbenders - Waterbenders were rounded up and put in concentration camps. Zhao actually went so far as to kill the source of their power.

So yeah, I'd say killing and/or imprisoning non-Firebenders is pretty much Fire Nation policy.

Fire is considered the superior element. All other benders are worthless barbarians in comparison, and they'll only get in the way of the glorious destiny of the Fire Nation and its colonies.

[tomandtish]

If your using airbending to push something faster then sound, then yes, you are creating the sonic boom with airbending.

Also sound travles easyest though air, and probaly with skillfull bending, one could throw his voice thousands of feat away or mute someone by not allowing the air to pass though his meaty flaps that controll sound, or perhaps out of the targets mouth

The science geek in me feels compelled to point out that sound actually travels faster through denser materials. It travels much faster (1482 meters/sec) through water than it does through air (331 meters/sec), and can be even faster through solids (5960 meters/sec for steel). What it doesn't do is transition well. Sounds starting in air do not do well transitioning through a solid, like a wall.

As for things I'd like to see answered in any new series, I'd love more answers on why the four nations are so divided to begin with, and why it is so necessary for them to stay that way. Admittedly, Ozai’s “let us share our greatness” seemed flawed from the beginning, especially knowing that he plans on sharing it by force, but I got the impression that Roku would be opposed to any plan that united the nations, even if every person in all of the nations supported it. Is there a fear that blending the nations will weaken the ability for people to bend. For instance, do we know that two people with different bending genes can have a bending child, and if so, would there be a tendency for one lineage (maternal or paternal) or one element to dominate? Or would the child not be able to bend at all? Would this be affected if the elements were in direct opposition (fire and water)?

[Yulian]

Earthbenders - Earthbenders were rounded up and put in concentration camps. The Dai Li weren't purely because they were quislings who helped maintain order. The moment it's a feasible plan, Ozai decides to murder the entire Earth Kingdom with fire.


I'm just gonna point this out again. Remember the fleet of dirigibles with a solid wall of flame surging before them? They were going to do their equivalent of nuking the Earth Kingdom into so much charcoal and ash. The Fire Nation had already killed every Air Nomad in the world save Aang in their not-so-distant past, too.

While the Dai Li were useful, I don't think Ozai or Azula would have cared if they had ended up becoming the last, small organization of earth benders in the world.

- Yulian

[deuxhero]

A new seris with a (possibly) female main character?
*Remembers the blatant fanservice in the last season*
Uh... Woot!

[Lord Seth]

Airbenders - Complete genocide. Women, children, fighters and old men, all slaughtered.I'll give you this one I guess.


Earthbenders - Earthbenders were rounded up and put in concentration camps.I don't recall the prison in "Imprisoned" being anything close to what a concentration camp would be, but they're in occupied territory, they have something that can be used against the Fire Nation, it makes sense for the Fire Nation to be making security precautions. If it was some random other power I'd expect they'd do the same thing.


The moment it's a feasible plan, Ozai decides to murder the entire Earth Kingdom with fire.But that has nothing to do with them being Earthbenders. That has to do with them being his enemies, who also happen to be Earthbenders.


Waterbenders - Waterbenders were rounded up and put in concentration camps.I don't recall that, remind me?


Zhao actually went so far as to kill the source of their power.They were trying to take over the Northern Water Tribe, which were using Waterbenders to repel their force. Waterbending was a weapon being used against them, so Zhao was trying to stop that weapon. That doesn't indicate hatred of waterbending itself, just that it's being used against them.

[The_JJ]

I think the whole rounding up Waterbenders, concentration camp thing was a. why what's her faces mom got kidnapped/killed (took her place) and b. why the whole bloodbender... witch went through what she went to to make her do what she did, yeah? And the Earthbending was an insta-imprison offence.

So he was engaging in a targeted campaign to destroy potencial Avatars (Waterbenders) made Earthbending illegal, and killed all the Airbenders.

'Course all I've seen the whole thing out of order...

[Pink]

Could also be just as simple as any earth or water benders that, for some bizarre reason, didn't last long enough to be of any note. Either being a scape goat for a tactical failure, claiming they're a spy, or being an easy target of the opposing army as a traitor, or just being pushed around by the rest of the soldiers who probably think they're superior in every way until one push was when the bender was beside a cliff.

[Zevox]

I don't recall that, remind me?
He's probably referring to what they did to the Southern Tribe, rounding up its benders and imprisoning them in the Fire Nation. Not exactly a concentration camp so much as a prison, of course. But that was probably a precaution in case they were wrong about the last Avatar having escaped the Air Nomad genocide - round up the waterbenders and keep them powerless but alive and any potential Water Tribe Avatar cannot trouble them, and cannot be reborn into their strongest enemy nation, the Earth Kingdom.

Zevox

[dehro]

avatar or no avatar, bending is a powerful weapon and it makes perfectly sense for ozai to want to destroy the weapons of the nations he's trying to conquer.
the air nation was wiped out because most if not all of them were benders.
all of the benders of the earth tribe were being captured...the "anyhilation" of ba-sing-se makes sense. it's full of earth benders and has resisted invasion for years and years..the city is a powerful stronghold of their enemy, but also it's last stronghold. anyhilate it and the rest of the nation will fold.
same thing happens with the waterbenders. one nation's benders are round up. the non-benders are ignored, not killed off..simply ignored.
the other tribe suffers a massive attack because they're offering a strong resistance.
why would ozai order an all out attack? quite simply because he needs to win the war during the passing of sozin's comet..otherwise he'll go back to a stalling situation that has been dragging on for years.
other than a "cultural hatred" for the enemy at large, ingrained by years of warfare, I don't see any particular hate for other-than-fire-bending as such.

[Xondoure]

avatar or no avatar, bending is a powerful weapon and it makes perfectly sense for ozai to want to destroy the weapons of the nations he's trying to conquer.
the air nation was wiped out because most if not all of them were benders.
all of the benders of the earth tribe were being captured...the "anyhilation" of ba-sing-se makes sense. it's full of earth benders and has resisted invasion for years and years..the city is a powerful stronghold of their enemy, but also it's last stronghold. anyhilate it and the rest of the nation will fold.
same thing happens with the waterbenders. one nation's benders are round up. the non-benders are ignored, not killed off..simply ignored.
the other tribe suffers a massive attack because they're offering a strong resistance.
why would ozai order an all out attack? quite simply because he needs to win the war during the passing of sozin's comet..otherwise he'll go back to a stalling situation that has been dragging on for years.
other than a "cultural hatred" for the enemy at large, ingrained by years of warfare, I don't see any particular hate for other-than-fire-bending as such.

Just because it makes military sense doesn't mean the practice isn't horribly wrong, and from what we've seen in the show deeply ingrained in racist ties. Not going to make many people willing to serve you.

[dehro]

Just because it makes military sense doesn't mean the practice isn't horribly wrong, and from what we've seen in the show deeply ingrained in racist ties. Not going to make many people willing to serve you.

I'm not justifying it. any war of agression is wrong. but I don't agree that there was "institutionalised" racism. ozai was a third generation nutcase, and some of his men were brutal murderers and may have fostered a "firenation uber alles" attitude, but that hardly speaks for the entire nation, and I struggle to remember anything as strong as outright racism being mentioned or acted on, in any episode.
hating/despising the enemy, even when it's not justified, doesn't automatically mean racism.

[Zevox]

Oh.

Oh dear.

This is alarming. I was checking that fansite that I first heard about the new show on for any news about the movie (which is mainly what I've been using it for - want to know what changes are being made for that before I see it, but I digress), and instead they have a news post with an observation that I really should have made when I checked on the trademark for Korra myself. I'd best just quote the trademark for you:


IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: ENTERTAINMENT SERVICES IN THE NATURE OF CONTINUING PROGRAM SERIES, FEATURING LIVE ACTION, COMEDY AND DRAMA PROVIDED THROUGH CABLE TELEVISION, BROADCAST TELEVISION, INTERNET, VIDEO-ON-DEMAND, AND THROUGH OTHER DISTRIBUTION PLATFORMS; PROVIDING ONLINE INFORMATION IN THE FIELD OF ENTERTAINMENT CONCERNING TELEVISION PROGRAMS
For reference, the trademark for the first show has "featuring animation" there.

So, yeah, that's raising all kinds of alarm bells in my mind. There would be so many potential problems with the show being live action even aside from the very different flavor it would be sure to have - visually with the setting and bending, actors, budget, I'm sure I don't need to spell it all out. Checking the other bits of info we have on the series that Bryn linked earlier, though yields mixed evidence.

The guy who let slip what might be one of the new characters' names said specifically that he was auditioning to be the "voice of Meelo," which would seem to indicate an animated series, since I don't think voice acting is generally used in live action shows beyond the normal actors themselves. But then again that is just some random actor's twitter post, and thus the least reliable bit of evidence there is, so as much as I'd like to, I can't draw too much hope from that.

The job postings he linked include several jobs that they'd need regardless - storyboard artists, revisionists, and supervisors, plus character designers - but two that may be hints about this. A prop designer, which is not something I'd generally think an animated show would need, and a "Live-Action/Animation Reference Coordinator," which... well, I have no idea what that's about. A google search of it turns up a full first page of links pertaining to that particular job opening, so it's apparently not a common job title, either.

The one thing I can think of with that is that they did work with that martial arts master, Sifu Kisu, to show them the moves they needed for the action of the first show, then translated those into animation, which could be what a "Live-Action/Animation Reference Coordinator" is about. And the prop designer could then be someone designing things like weapons for him to use for that purpose. But that then still doesn't explain the trademark.

I'm hoping there's just some mistake there, and the show isn't actually going to be live action. But until we learn what's what with this, I think my hopes for the show just took a nosedive. :smallfrown:

Zevox

[dehro]

can't it just be motion capture technology?
my brain is utterly vuvuzelad, right now, so I'm not sure I'm making much sense, and that's about all I can contribute with.
live action sequel to avatar would suck in too many ways to need any explanation

[Zevox]

can't it just be motion capture technology?
I don't know... would that qualify as "live action" for a trademark? How would that even work unless they moving to some kind of GCI animation :smallconfused: ? I'm not honestly sure how I'd react if that were the explanation...

Zevox

[Xondoure]

I don't know... would that qualify as "live action" for a trademark? How would that even work unless they moving to some kind of GCI animation :smallconfused: ? I'm not honestly sure how I'd react if that were the explanation...

Zevox

It's possible it could have both or rather, different storylines with one being either a "story" "other world" or "different time.

[Zevox]

Thing is, wouldn't the trademark then mention the multiple different kinds of animation/live action it will have? :smallconfused:

...of course, now that I think of that, the answer to that question seems to lie with the fact that they were looking for a "Live-Action/Animation Reference Coordinator," which means there has to be at least some animation involved in it, yet the trademark just says live action. So, there's something odd there no matter how you slice it.

...and now I'm going to have mixed hopes and fears about the new series up until Nickelodeon actually announces it and we learn what exactly it will be like. Can't bring myself to just give up on it when there's still so little to go on, yet I can't help fearing the worst after seeing there's evidence that it might be a live action series. :smallsigh:

Zevox

[John Cribati]

Pardon me if this sounds, well, racist, but "Meelo" doesn't sound like the sort of Asian-ish name I expect from a sequel.

[Prime32]

...of course, now that I think of that, the answer to that question seems to lie with the fact that they were looking for a "Live-Action/Animation Reference Coordinator," which means there has to be at least some animation involved in it, yet the trademark just says live action. So, there's something odd there no matter how you slice it.Maybe the actors will interact with CG characters/objects a lot? CGI is animation.

[dehro]

Maybe the actors will interact with CG characters/objects a lot? CGI is animation.

that's the point...I don't want there to be any actors :smallbiggrin: and I assume zevox thinks the same?

[Kuma Da]

Pardon me if this sounds, well, racist, but "Meelo" doesn't sound like the sort of Asian-ish name I expect from a sequel.

Only the most Asian of names are allowed in the Avatar-verse!

:smallamused:

Nah, I don't think it sounds racist, but I do think it's much too early to get worried about 'Meelo'.

[SpiderMew]

If its live action, i picture in my mind it having a power-rangers level of budget.

[Zevox]

Maybe the actors will interact with CG characters/objects a lot? CGI is animation.
...oh. Right. Like Appa and Roku's Dragon appear to be in the movie. That would make sense. And it could be the explanation for why you'd have a voice actor in a live action show too. Well, there goes some of my hopes that the live action thing might be a mistake...

Zevox

[Bryn]

Apparently (http://youbentmywookie.com/entertainment/rumors-of-new-avatar-the-last-airbender-animated-series-confirmed-9311), Mike and Bryan have confirmed The Legend of Korra is happening, but they couldn't say anything except that there would be an announcement soon.

Also, from some time before - has this been mentioned? - there is someone claiming that the new series will take place 100 years after the series (http://www.dongbufeng.net/site1/content/view/1108/188/). Interesting.

[Zevox]

Apparently (http://youbentmywookie.com/entertainment/rumors-of-new-avatar-the-last-airbender-animated-series-confirmed-9311), Mike and Bryan have confirmed The Legend of Korra is happening, but they couldn't say anything except that there would be an announcement soon.
All right. Guess we just cross our fingers and wait for that announcement. Article says they expect it before Comic-Con, which a google search says is July 22-25 this year. So in theory we don't have long to wait.


Also, from some time before - has this been mentioned? - there is someone claiming that the new series will take place 100 years after the series (http://www.dongbufeng.net/site1/content/view/1108/188/). Interesting.
Interesting, if true. That would mean that either Aang is still around, or if there is a new Avatar he either died in battle/an accident or his lifespan wasn't extended beyond the typical human's for some reason.

Zevox

[Maximum Zersk]

Wait, wait, wait a second. About the motivation for the Fire Nation starting the war.

When has an evil dictator ever needed a motivation.

Seriously, when I think back into history, I don't see much motivation.

[John Cribati]

All right. Guess we just cross our fingers and wait for that announcement. Article says they expect it before Comic-Con, which a google search says is July 22-25 this year. So in theory we don't have long to wait.


Interesting, if true. That would mean that either Aang is still around, or if there is a new Avatar he either died in battle/an accident or his lifespan wasn't extended beyond the typical human's for some reason.

Zevox

I personally believe anything that comes from dongbufeng. That guy used to moderate a forum I used to frequent (the "used to's" are connected), and he's never been wrong yet. Except for that one prank where he said that The Day of Black Sun aired in Zimbabwe before the US. Much lulz were had. Anyway, one of them (not sure if it's Jake or Dylan) interns at Nickelodeon Studios, IIRC (if I don't RC, he's similarly connected to the Studio), so I trust his word.

[Bryn]

This (http://twitpic.com/25l2u6/full) popped up over at TV Tropes. It has a little information that we didn't have already but since it's a picture we can't follow the links.

The protagonist will be a Waterbender, the next Avatar, and Avatar Aang will have a similar role to Avatar Roku. Which is kind of awesome. I guess we should hope for an official announcement soon with the whole Comic Con thing.

[Zevox]

This (http://twitpic.com/25l2u6/full) popped up over at TV Tropes. It has a little information that we didn't have already but since it's a picture we can't follow the links.

The protagonist will be a Waterbender, the next Avatar, and Avatar Aang will have a similar role to Avatar Roku. Which is kind of awesome. I guess we should hope for an official announcement soon with the whole Comic Con thing.
Better yet, it says it's an "upcoming animated series," which means unless that information is totally false, the whole "live action" thing from the trademark was a false alarm. That alone is enough to raise my hopes again. Now to just wait for the official word with fingers crossed.

Zevox

[Jahkaivah]

I'm curious to how the plot would go:

I mean another war between the countries would seem innappropriate, I would like to think Zuko's end to the Fire Nation's war would last beyond his reign. The only other country with the power to be a threat would be the Earth Kingdom and they are hardly likely to start another war after having just recieved such a beating from one.

I am thinking the Spirit World could make a good source of antagonists, Koh the Facestealer could make a great villain, and there are no doubt evil spirits which desire the mortal world. Plus there would be a bit of complexity as the Avatar would be the reason the spirits can even pass over into the world meaning there will be well-intentioned anti-villains trying to kill her as well.

Could also be why Aang dies early, when the spirits start attacking he is caught off guard and is left with no option but to end his own life as so to stall the attacks while they have to figure out of the pass through via a new Avatar.

[endoperez]

Could also be why Aang dies early, when the spirits start attacking he is caught off guard and is left with no option but to end his own life as so to stall the attacks while they have to figure out of the pass through via a new Avatar.

...wut?

Aang is twelve or so. 100 years later, the new avatar is old enough to go adventuring, probably somewhere around 12-15 or so. That means Aang died at or near 100-year-old, physically. How is that an early death?


While the Spirit World could be a source of antagonists, I think re-establishing the airbenders could be one of the themes of the new series. Avatar may be the only person able to talk with the dead spirits of past airbenders...

[Prime32]

Better yet, it says it's an "upcoming animated series," which means unless that information is totally false, the whole "live action" thing from the trademark was a false alarm. That alone is enough to raise my hopes again. Now to just wait for the official word with fingers crossed.

ZevoxMaybe the live action thing had something to do with recreating the moves of real martial artists? Or there will be live-action shorts at the end of the episode?

[CoffeeIncluded]

This (http://twitpic.com/25l2u6/full) popped up over at TV Tropes. It has a little information that we didn't have already but since it's a picture we can't follow the links.

The protagonist will be a Waterbender, the next Avatar, and Avatar Aang will have a similar role to Avatar Roku. Which is kind of awesome. I guess we should hope for an official announcement soon with the whole Comic Con thing.

*Squees repeatedly* I can't wait!

[YPU]

I am hesitantly hopeful for this new series. That is to say I would be screaming like a schoolgirl at a boyband concert if it wasn't for that horror that is the movie.

[Adumbration]

A new Avatar season! A new Avatar season! Giant in the playground, its a -

I mean, big deal, a new avatar season. :smalltongue:

Cookie for anyone who figures out the reference.

[Zevox]

Aang is twelve or so. 100 years later, the new avatar is old enough to go adventuring, probably somewhere around 12-15 or so. That means Aang died at or near 100-year-old, physically. How is that an early death?
Because the series indicates that particularly spiritual individuals can live much longer than normal humans. Avatar Kyoshi lived to be over 200. Bumi and Guru Pathik both lived to be over 100 themselves. For an Avatar, living to "only" 112 may well be an early death.


A new Avatar season! A new Avatar season! Giant in the playground, its a -

I mean, big deal, a new avatar season. :smalltongue:

Cookie for anyone who figures out the reference.
Sokka, discovering Appa actually can fly, way back in episode 2.

Zevox

[Neko Toast]

Because the series indicates that particularly spiritual individuals can live much longer than normal humans. Avatar Kyoshi lived to be over 200. Bumi and Guru Pathik both lived to be over 100 themselves. For an Avatar, living to "only" 112 may well be an early death.

He might have had an early death because of those 100 years when he was frozen inside the iceberg. I mean, it didn't look like it affected his age or health at all when they cracked him out of there, but you'd think that being encased in ice and essentially falling into a coma for 100 years would affect a person.

[Zevox]

He might have had an early death because of those 100 years when he was frozen inside the iceberg. I mean, it didn't look like it affected his age or health at all when they cracked him out of there, but you'd think that being encased in ice and essentially falling into a coma for 100 years would affect a person.
Maybe, but I always figured that the obvious fact that his body wasn't affected by that time meant his Avatar powers had put him into some form of temporal stasis in order to preserve him while in that iceberg.

Zevox

[Adumbration]

Sokka, discovering Appa actually can fly, way back in episode 2.

Zevox

Here, have a cookie. You've earned it.

Hmm. I've started rewatching the series, and a thought occurred to me.

The original firebenders were the dragons, and Avatar Roku's animal guide was a dragon. Aang's animal guide is Appa, the flying bison/buffalo, and I recall that their kind were the original airbenders as well. Presumably one of the giant mole things that were the original earthbenders (and that taught Toph) would be the animal guide for an Earth Kingdom Avatar.

Hence my question. Who were the original water benders? Who or what will be the Avatar Korra's animal guide?

Could it be the Unagi?

[The Rose Dragon]

Hence my question. Who were the original water benders?

It was the moon.

Apparently, Korra will travel around with Yue.

[Adumbration]

It was the moon.

Apparently, Korra will travel around with Yue.

Aaand there goes my theory. I had completely forgotten that particular piece of lore. :smalltongue:

[Zevox]

Hence my question. Who were the original water benders? Who or what will be the Avatar Korra's animal guide?

Could it be the Unagi?
As mentioned, the moon was the original waterbender. What, if anything, would be the animal guide for a Water Tribe Avatar is still a valid question though, since obviously the moon cannot fulfill that role. The Unagi is about the only thing from the series I can think of that may work thus far, but it'd be kind of limited in helpfulness, being confined to the water. Hm, don't know.

Zevox

[Bacon Barbarian]

If this takes place after Avatar, how is (s)he going to learn Airbending? And if it happens before Avatar: The Last Airbender, who cares? The only way (I think) that could work is if we followed Roku around. Which wont happen ... Darn

[Zevox]

If this takes place after Avatar, how is (s)he going to learn Airbending?
We discussed different ways the Air Nomads could be restored earlier in the thread. The most obvious simply being descendants of Aang's - any children he and Katara had could be airbenders, and he'd surely teach them if they were. As the generations go by that could cause a slowly but surely increasing population of airbenders to exist. If the new show is in fact only 100 years after the first the group would likely be very small, but could exist.

In addition, since Sky Bisons were the original airbenders, it's possible Appa could instruct some people who otherwise can't bend in how to airbend. How precisely that works I don't know, but it's apparently how humans came to be able to airbend to begin with, so it's theoretically possible.

The other major option is that energybending may allow Aang to impart bending abilities as well as take them away - it does appear that was how the Lion Turtle gave him energybending - but personally I'm really hoping that's not what happens, since that whole power still reeks of deus-ex-machina to me.

Zevox

[Bacon Barbarian]

We discussed different ways the Air Nomads could be restored earlier in the thread. The most obvious simply being descendants of Aang's - any children he and Katara had could be airbenders, and he'd surely teach them if they were. As the generations go by that could cause a slowly but surely increasing population of airbenders to exist. If the new show is in fact only 100 years after the first the group would likely be very small, but could exist.

That would take far too long to be, but I suppose if their were still 10 Airbenders, this Korra could learn


In addition, since Sky Bisons were the original airbenders, it's possible Appa could instruct some people who otherwise can't bend in how to airbend. How precisely that works I don't know, but it's apparently how humans came to be able to airbend to begin with, so it's theoretically possible.

Didnt all the other Sky Bison die to? Appa would have to be ridiculously old


The other major option is that energybending may allow Aang to impart bending abilities as well as take them away - it does appear that was how the Lion Turtle gave him energybending - but personally I'm really hoping that's not what happens, since that whole power still reeks of deus-ex-machina to me.

Spiritending, and yes, it does reek of Deus ex Machina. Lets hope its avoided for nigh the entire series

[Xondoure]

Hey, I liked spirit bending... even if it was a complete deus ex machina, at least it was an epic one. It might be spirit bending that allows an avatar to bend in the spirit world...
I worry about the sky bisons, but it's possible there are wild ones still roaming the skies of the mountains.
Fingers crossed for animation.

[Yora]

Neither of Tophs parents were earthbender and she also wasn't trained by a relative, so bending doesn't seem to be an inherited talent but something that can be learned.
When Aang lives for another 80 years or so, that's far enough time to train several generations of new airbenders, which in turn could train new airbenders themselves. It wouldn't be as much as there are earth and fire benders, but several hundreds would be no problem in that time.

[Bacon Barbarian]

Neither of Tophs parents were earthbender and she also wasn't trained by a relative, so bending doesn't seem to be an inherited talent but something that can be learned.
When Aang lives for another 80 years or so, that's far enough time to train several generations of new airbenders, which in turn could train new airbenders themselves. It wouldn't be as much as there are earth and fire benders, but several hundreds would be no problem in that time.

You assume Aang lived a happy life after the end of the series ...

[Zevox]

Neither of Tophs parents were earthbender and she also wasn't trained by a relative, so bending doesn't seem to be an inherited talent but something that can be learned.
More accurately it's a talent you either have or don't, depending on genetics (can't bend elements from nations you don't descend from at the least, that much is clear) and spirituality.

Zevox

[Adumbration]

There's also the vague possibility of descendants of airbenders alive somewhere - after all, Aang only searched the most obvious locations, the air temples, which had been scoured time after time by the Fire nation.

[Jayngfet]

It's highly doubtful every single airbender and bison went down. I mean even in a hunred years outside four buildings the airbenders didn't have many specific places to gather, you'd need to scour a whole country for every man woman and child, and every single bison.

Odds are there's a few in some caves in some mountain far, far away.


Also, I'm wondering exactly how the setting was ever balanced to begin with. I mean, fire and earth have lots of cities and some fairly advanced technology, meanwhile the air nomads were small wandering groups only centered around religious and water is still stuck in a tribal civilization.

Not to mention balance now, I mean even without war fire still gained massive technological advantages that've allowed them to travel through air, fire, and water reliably with their own element.

[Adumbration]

Perhaps one of the other nations will make its mission to put Fire nation back into its place? I mean, after seeing Ba Sing Se, I wouldn't put it beyond Earth Nation to retaliate severely, particularly in the intervening time when the Avatar is still a child.

There's also the question of what changes exactly does Zuko make with the Fire nation, with the cooperation of Aang.

[Zevox]

Didnt all the other Sky Bison die to? Appa would have to be ridiculously old
Well, we don't know what the life span of Sky Bisons is. But that's not what I meant anyway - I was talking about him teaching non-benders, not Korra. Thus creating a group of new airbenders who could teach Korra when the time comes.


It's highly doubtful every single airbender and bison went down. I mean even in a hunred years outside four buildings the airbenders didn't have many specific places to gather, you'd need to scour a whole country for every man woman and child, and every single bison.

Odds are there's a few in some caves in some mountain far, far away.
Eh, I wouldn't bet on it, since the whole airbender genocide was kind of the entire reason they named the first series what they did.


Also, I'm wondering exactly how the setting was ever balanced to begin with. I mean, fire and earth have lots of cities and some fairly advanced technology, meanwhile the air nomads were small wandering groups only centered around religious and water is still stuck in a tribal civilization.

Not to mention balance now, I mean even without war fire still gained massive technological advantages that've allowed them to travel through air, fire, and water reliably with their own element.
Seems pretty plain just from the way the world works that "balance" does not mean "all four nations are exactly the same in all ways except for which element they can bend."

Zevox

[TheLaughingMan]

What, if anything, would be the animal guide for a Water Tribe Avatar is still a valid question though, since obviously the moon cannot fulfill that role.

Discrimination!

Seriously, though, I'm overjoyed at the prospect of a new series. If it's a new series.

[thorgrim29]

Some air nomad descendants surely survive, in assimilated enclaves or as descendants of renegades who married outside their tribe.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Some air nomad descendants surely survive, in assimilated enclaves or as descendants of renegades who married outside their tribe.

Unlike the other nations all members of the air nomads were also benders, and by cannon they were entirely exterminated except for Aang.


Maybe, but I always figured that the obvious fact that his body wasn't affected by that time meant his Avatar powers had put him into some form of temporal stasis in order to preserve him while in that iceberg.

Zevox

Maybe when Katara died of old age, he decided with his wife gone it was time to move on and simply passed away.

[Zevox]

Maybe when Katara died of old age, he decided with his wife gone it was time to move on and simply passed away.
Possible I suppose, particularly if the world didn't seem in particular need of the Avatar at the time, thus making it a safe point at which his successor could be born. Not entirely sure that's the explanation I'd prefer, but in any event I guess we'll find out what happened when the new series arrives.

Zevox

[Lord Vukodlak]

Possible I suppose, particularly if the world didn't seem in particular need of the Avatar at the time, thus making it a safe point at which his successor could be born. Not entirely sure that's the explanation I'd prefer, but in any event I guess we'll find out what happened when the new series arrives.

Zevox

Well the new series begins 100 years after the last. The first episode could be the birth of the new avatar. [then skipping 15 years ahead]. Which would mean Aang died at 113 which is fairly old.

Kyoshi may have lived for 214 but that could be the exception not the rule,
like say many people would die of old age in their fifties a thousand years ago but a few people still lived to 100.
Or maybe someone forgot a digit when marking down her birth year.

[Prime32]

Kyoshi was supposed to have lived the longest of any Avatar... and had the largest feet.

[Yulian]

I doubt they'd have Aang wholesale energybend a bunch of new airbenders. It was just too huge of a deal when he did it to Ozai.

I'm voting on descendants and large families to expand their numbers as much as possible. Remember, we're looking at 5 generations down the line.

The problem with a waterbender's animal companion is mobility, of course, unless the whole show takes place by coastlines.

- Yulian

[Bacon Barbarian]

The problem with a waterbender's animal companion is mobility, of course, unless the whole show takes place by coastlines.

- Yulian

Who says their needs to be an animal companion? Where was Kyoshi's and Roku's?

[The Rose Dragon]

Who says their needs to be an animal companion? Where was Kyoshi's and Roku's?

Roku's was the dragon. Also, it is more of a "spirit guide" and less of an "animal companion".

[Yora]

Unlike the other nations all members of the air nomads were also benders, and by cannon they were entirely exterminated except for Aang.
In that case it seems like bad writing. Get the retcon!

I've seen the entire show three times, and there's nothing that says that all the talent for bending must be inherited or that all persons with the genetic trait of airbending talent in the world have been killed.
Neither Tophs nor Kataras parents were Benders, and in the case of Kataras parents, it is very unlikely they were not tested if they had the talent. Aang was raised by monks, as apparently it is common for young arirbenders. Which I see as very strong evidence, that they couldn't be trained by their own parents, which means there have been air nomads that were no airbenders.
I really don't see the problem here?

[RedBeardJim]

In that case it seems like bad writing. Get the retcon!

I've seen the entire show three times, and there's nothing that says that all the talent for bending must be inherited or that all persons with the genetic trait of airbending talent in the world have been killed.
Neither Tophs nor Kataras parents were Benders, and in the case of Kataras parents, it is very unlikely they were not tested if they had the talent. Aang was raised by monks, as apparently it is common for young arirbenders. Which I see as very strong evidence, that they couldn't be trained by their own parents, which means there have been air nomads that were no airbenders.
I really don't see the problem here?

The creators have stated (not in the show, but in interviews) that all the Air Nomads were in fact Airbenders. We don't know anything about their mating/marriage customs except that they were obviously not celibate. Boys were apparently raised by the monks at the Northern and Southern Air Temples, girls by the nuns at the Eastern and Western temples.

But yeah, they did call the first series "The Last Airbender" for a reason.

Oh, and the new series has been officially announced (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100721/ap_en_ot/us_tv_legend_of_korra).

[Neko Toast]

According to this article (http://www.lastairbenderfans.com/index.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1279705557&archive=&start_from=&ucat=4&), the new Avatar will be taught airbending by Aang's son. We now know how she'll learn airbending.

I'm excited for the setting of Republic City. Steam Punk FTW!

[Adumbration]

I think I squee'd a little there.

[Morty]

My personal theory about the return of Airbending into the world was that after some time, some people would be born with a talent for Airbending and start a new Airbending culture, because now that the Avatar has brought balance to the world, it can fix itself, as it were. But if Korra will be tutored by Aang's son, it might be that no other Airbenders will be there. We'll see.

[Bacon Barbarian]

According to this article (http://www.lastairbenderfans.com/index.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1279705557&archive=&start_from=&ucat=4&), the new Avatar will be taught airbending by Aang's son. We now know how she'll learn airbending.

I'm excited for the setting of Republic City. Steam Punk FTW!

Steampunk, cool.

Being taught by Aang's son? Bad idea. Bad, BAD idea.

[Woodsman]

Ooh, this looks interesting. Let's hope they don't screw it up too bad. :smalltongue:

I doubt they will, though. If they do as good a job with this series as they did with the original, it should be good.

[Bacon Barbarian]

Ooh, this looks interesting. Let's hope they don't screw it up too bad. :smalltongue:

I doubt they will, though. If they do as good a job with this series as they did with the original, it should be good.

We're ignoring the Movie as part of the series then? Good. Motion carried.

[Zevox]

Oh, and the new series has been officially announced (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100721/ap_en_ot/us_tv_legend_of_korra).
And the image accompanying it is definitely animated. I am happy indeed :smallbiggrin: .

Also confirms the main character is a girl this time. Sounds like she's sort of Aang's opposite in personality - where he never wanted to be the Avatar, she's if anything overly enthusiastic for it. Interesting.


According to this article (http://www.lastairbenderfans.com/index.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1279705557&archive=&start_from=&ucat=4&), the new Avatar will be taught airbending by Aang's son. We now know how she'll learn airbending.

I'm excited for the setting of Republic City. Steam Punk FTW!
Hm, interesting bit of info. It also says the series is actually 70 years after the first, which pushes Aang's death date back by quite a bit, since Korra is already a teenager. He'd then be in his 60s upon death. Hm...


Being taught by Aang's son? Bad idea. Bad, BAD idea.
Why, might I ask? :smallconfused:

Zevox

[Bacon Barbarian]

Why, might I ask? :smallconfused:

Zevox

Too horribly cliched. Well, IMO.

Master Roshi taught Grandpa Gohan, Grandpa Gohan taught Goku. Goku went back and got training from Master Roshi.

I realize it isnt (quite) like that, per se, but ... We've seen it before.

[Zevox]

Too horribly cliched. Well, IMO.

Master Roshi taught Grandpa Gohan, Grandpa Gohan taught Goku. Goku went back and got training from Master Roshi.

I realize it isnt (quite) like that, per se, but ... We've seen it before.
Okay... I honestly don't see the problem, particularly given that one of the few ways for airbending to be passed on at all is via Aang's descendants, but I guess that's just different perspectives for you.

Zevox

[Yora]

According to this article (http://www.lastairbenderfans.com/index.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1279705557&archive=&start_from=&ucat=4&), the new Avatar will be taught airbending by Aang's son. We now know how she'll learn airbending.

Is that her?
http://www.lastairbenderfans.com/cutenews/data/upimages/KorraAnnounce_bigger.jpg
I allready like her. :smallbiggrin: