Redeemed Evil Creatures

[Eloi]

Redeemed Evil Creatures

Acquired Template: Redeemed Succubus

Requirements: A succubus who turns to a good alignment can take this template, which requires certain vows she would break by using the abilities it removes. The LA lost can be replaced by levels in paladin or cleric. Optionally she can gain fewer levels than she sacrifices in LA in order to play at a lower level than a normal starting succubus character. If the succubus uses her prohibited abilities, she loses the benefit of the class levels gained in place of her LA (possibly until atonement).

Background: The Redeemed Succubus is one who flies in the face of their evil heritage in order to become a champion of good. They abstain from using their natural charm or demon-derivative special abilities in order to prove to themselves and others that they can get ahead with their rigid faith and excellent skills. They are sometimes seen as naturally evil by their peers, but others admire their commitment to be good despite their heritage.

Succubus/Incubus Abilities Restrained:
You may not use Energy Drain (Su).
You many not use your Spell-Like Abilities.
You may use Summon Demon (Sp), but the demons will fight against you.
You may use Change Shape (Su)
The LA of the Succubus is set to +2.

Why would I want to play this?: Good question! Well, it sets up some good role-playing scenario of a Succubus struggling to be good despite other expectations. On the crunch side of things, they have lowered LA whilst still retaining the great things that come with being a demon sans special abilities.

Acquired Template:Redeemed Half-Fiend

Requirements:A Half-Fiend who turns to a good alignment can take this template, which requires certain vows they would break by using the abilities it removes. The LA lost can be replaced by levels in paladin or cleric. Optionally they can gain fewer levels than they sacrifices in LA in order to play at a lower level than a normal starting Half-Fiend character. If the Half-Fiend uses their prohibited abilities, they lose the benefit of the class levels gained in place of her LA (possibly until atonement).

Background:*The Redeemed Half-Fiend is a bit of a worst of both worlds scenario, unlike the Succubus who can partially hide their demonic heritage with shapeshifting abilities, look and sound like pure evil even if they have the best intents. They are looked down heavily upon by other Half-Fiends, other Paladins and Clerics do not prefer the company of a Redeemed Half-Fiend but not nearly as vocal with their disapproval as other Half-Fiends. They refrain from using their natural weapons as they are considered a part of their demonic heritage, instead preferring to use the holy weapon of their deity.

Half-Fiend Abilities Restrained:
You may not use your natural weapons.
You may not use Smite Good(Su).
You may not use your Spell-like abilities.
The LA of the Half-Fiend is set to +2.

Why would I want to play this?: You get interesting role-playing material, isn't that good enough? If it isn't, you still get all of the juicy resistances that the Half-Fiend has while trading in some special abilities for reduced LA.

[Jair Barik]

Is this homebrew? If so it seems as though the thread should be in the homebrew section. If not is there a question or something you forgot to post?

[Eloi]

Is this homebrew? If so it seems as though the thread should be in the homebrew section. If not is there a question or something you forgot to post?

I simply forgot to put it in the homebrew section is there any way I can move the thread or do I just re-make this one in the Homebrew section?

[kamikasei]

You can PM a mod to move it, I think. I already reported it as probably needing to be moved, though.

[Eloi]

You can PM a mod to move it, I think. I already reported it as probably needing to be moved, though.

Thanks. ^_^ Still relatively new to the forums, joined about six days ago if I recall correctly, so sorry about any newbie mistakes I may make.

[Murdim]

Succubus/Incubus:[/B]
You may not use Energy Drain (Su).
You many not use your Spell-Like Abilities.
You may not use Summon Demon (Sp).
You may use Change Shape (Su) but not much outside of using it to remove demonic features from yourself, and its kind of a moot feature with the complex garb required.
The LA of the Succubus is set to +0.
Even without their Supernatural and Spell-Like abilities, Succubi still have :

_ Outsider type and demon traits : darkvision 60m, weapons and armor proficiencies, no need to eat or sleep, immunity to electricity and poison, resistance (10) to acid, fire and cold, and telepathy.
_ 50ft Flight speed, two claws as primary natural weapons, +9 natural armor, damage reduction 10 / Cold Iron or Good, spell resistance 18.
_ Six Outsider hit dices.
_ Insane ability modifiers

[panaikhan]

This sounds a lot like the "Fallen From Grace" character from Planescape: Torment (PC game, and a good one - look it up :smallbiggrin:)

Though she was not prevented from using any of her demonic powers, she only used them for 'good', and I'm guessing the summon Demon power is not a clever idea, as they would attack the summoner on arrival...

[Eloi]

Even without their Supernatural and Spell-Like abilities, Succubi still have :

_ Outsider type and demon traits : darkvision 60m, weapons and armor proficiencies, no need to eat or sleep, immunity to electricity and poison, resistance (10) to acid, fire and cold, and telepathy.
_ 50ft Flight speed, two claws as primary natural weapons, +9 natural armor, damage reduction 10 / Cold Iron or Good, spell resistance 18.
_ Six Outsider hit dices.
_ Insane ability modifiers

Should I bump up the LA to +1?

[KillianHawkeye]

Covering Drapery, Cost: 10 gp Armor/Shield Bonus: 0 Max. Dex Bonus: 8 Armor Check Penalty: 0 Arcane Spell Failure Chance: 0% Speed: Same Weight: >10 lb.
Bandages, Cost: 5 gp, No Special bonuses or penalties except for an Arcane Spell Failure Chance of 10% for spells with a speaking component.

Why does a loose-fitting robe carry a max Dex bonus limitation? Why does covering your mouth constitute a chance for arcane spell failure? (ASF is normally only for spells with somatic rather than verbal components.)

Also, I think you think this is cooler than it really is. I wouldn't play one, nor do I see why any Succubus would submit itself to such a sexist and intolerant lifestyle. Being Good is one thing, but wearing a bhurka is crossing the line IMO.

EDIT:

darkvision 60m

That's 60 ft.


This sounds a lot like the "Fallen From Grace" character from Planescape: Torment (PC game, and a good one - look it up :smallbiggrin:)

Though she was not prevented from using any of her demonic powers, she only used them for 'good', and I'm guessing the summon Demon power is not a clever idea, as they would attack the summoner on arrival...

Slightly related is the article about the Succubus Paladin. Although there isn't any RAW to back it up, in the article they said that she couldn't use her summon demon power because no demons would answer her call.

[Eloi]

Why does a loose-fitting robe carry a max Dex bonus limitation? Why does covering your mouth constitute a chance for arcane spell failure? (ASF is normally only for spells with somatic rather than verbal components.)

Also, I think you think this is cooler than it really is. I wouldn't play one, nor do I see why any Succubus would submit itself to such a sexist and intolerant lifestyle. Being Good is one thing, but wearing a bhurka is crossing the line IMO.

:smallsigh: Um, okay.
I'll just put a "-" where the Dex bonus limitation is.
Because covering your mouth probably limits your ability to say arcane words of power?
Sexist? *examines character description* Sexist? I'm very confused at why you would level that. How is wearing non-form fitting clothes and not using your evil demon powers to seduce people, sexist in any way? But uh, thanks for your critiques.

[panaikhan]

Slightly related is the article about the Succubus Paladin. Although there isn't any RAW to back it up, in the article they said that she couldn't use her summon demon power because no demons would answer her call.

If I was the DM in that situation I would say that, if the 'good' succubus used their summon power, they would simply alert demon-kind to their EXACT location. Demons would indeed turn up, but not to help the character, and probably in much greater numbers than the power indicated...

[Eloi]

If I was the DM in that situation I would say that, if the 'good' succubus used their summon power, they would simply alert demon-kind to their EXACT location. Demons would indeed turn up, but not to help the character, and probably in much greater numbers than the power indicated...

Indeed, they still have the ability to summon demons (and all other things restricted), they just volunteer not to. So I suppose if the DM somehow got control of a Chaste Succubus PC, summon demon could be used against them, eh?

[Mongoose87]

Even without their Supernatural and Spell-Like abilities, Succubi still have :

_ Outsider type and demon traits : darkvision 60m, weapons and armor proficiencies, no need to eat or sleep, immunity to electricity and poison, resistance (10) to acid, fire and cold, and telepathy.
_ 50ft Flight speed, two claws as primary natural weapons, +9 natural armor, damage reduction 10 / Cold Iron or Good, spell resistance 18.
_ Six Outsider hit dices.
_ Insane ability modifiers

Since when are six levels without class features an advantage?

[Eloi]

I would also like to note in regards to the garb being 'sexist' (which I guess its possible for me to offend myself, but I digress.):
They're more like a jilbāb mixed with a sarashi (that are used as a lower half niqāb as well), but thats beside the point. If they were human females, I'd understand the criticism but they are evil humanoids with etheral beauty. They already don't blend in with other Paladins/good-Clerics aesthetically having demonic features, and it would not make sense to take away the +2 charisma modifiers based on attraction if their faces/bodies were very visible. Thus, I'd like to emphasize that I really don't understand why its considered sexist.

[kamikasei]

Okay, reading the actual class now.

First off: this doesn't seem to be a class. I don't see anything to indicate how one would take levels in it or what those levels would grant you. It seems more like a template. You might want to check the guides in the homebrew section for indicators on what information is expected for different types of homebrew.

Secondly: the robe-thing is a bit odd. I don't see why it couldn't be something worn over any armor you wanted. At most I'd peg it as taking up a cloak slot rather than armor.


Sexist? *examines character description* Sexist? I'm very confused at why you would level that. How is wearing non-form fitting clothes and not using your evil demon powers to seduce people, sexist in any way? But uh, thanks for your critiques.

The impression you could get from the class is that a succubus who doesn't want to be evil has to stop being sexual. Not only is she not to do evil or to seduce others into doing evil, but she's not even to allow her beauty to be seen for fear it'll cause evil. That's a problematic link to make. For my money a succubus who wants to be good should be prioritizing not manipulating people in to doing evil and not energy draining people to death, rather than not showing too much skin. :smalltongue:

[Grumman]

Sexist? *examines character description* Sexist? I'm very confused at why you would level that. How is wearing non-form fitting clothes and not using your evil demon powers to seduce people, sexist in any way? But uh, thanks for your critiques.
The evil demon powers that are inherently a problem are her Charm Monster SLA and her Energy Drain. I don't see why she'd need this sort of garb as a crutch if all she needs to do is not cast SLAs on people and not kiss people. Not kissing people is easy, unless you're in a shoujo manga.

[KillianHawkeye]

I would also like to note in regards to the garb being 'sexist' (which I guess its possible for me to offend myself, but I digress.):
They're more like a jilbāb mixed with a sarashi (that are used as a lower half niqāb as well), but thats beside the point. If they were human females, I'd understand the criticism but they are evil humanoids with etheral beauty. They already don't blend in with other Paladins/good-Clerics aesthetically having demonic features, and it would not make sense to take away the +2 charisma modifiers based on attraction if their faces/bodies were very visible. Thus, I'd like to emphasize that I really don't understand why its considered sexist.

I don't know all the terms you just threw up, but what you described sounds a lot like what women in certain middle eastern countries are currently forced to wear. We're talking about probably the most sexist culture in the world right now, and that's all I'm going to say.

[Eloi]

I don't know all the terms you just threw up, but what you described sounds a lot like what women in certain middle eastern countries are currently forced to wear. We're talking about probably the most sexist culture in the world right now, and that's all I'm going to say.

Well I'm sorry for hurting your feelings or anyone elses, I'll just erase that then. :smallfrown:

[KillianHawkeye]

Well I'm sorry for hurting your feelings or anyone elses, I'll just erase that then. :smallfrown:

You didn't hurt my feelings. It just didn't make any sense to me. It's just something I don't think people ought to be emulating, that's all.

[Eloi]

The evil demon powers that are inherently a problem are her Charm Monster SLA and her Energy Drain. I don't see why she'd need this sort of garb as a crutch if all she needs to do is not cast SLAs on people and not kiss people. Not kissing people is easy, unless you're in a shoujo manga.

Well if you aren't full Succubus you'll look vaguely-demonic anyway, which isn't probably the look you want to be parading around, but logic aside I just deleted the section on garb.


You didn't hurt my feelings. It just didn't make any sense to me. It's just something I don't think people ought to be emulating, that's all.

Well I enjoy robes, cloaks, hoods, and bandages, but oh well.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well I enjoy robes, cloaks, hoods, and bandages, but oh well.

Do you have to wear them every day (or at least whenever you go out in public), or do you have some choice in the matter?

[Reinboom]

Not only that, but on just a roleplaying note... you have made this template/class too focused on just a single character concept and restricted it to such.
There's a certain "line" there you have to be careful with in order to have it more broadly appealing.

For example, you said you have to specifically where a special type of garb (or, did say if you have edited that out by now). However, that is culture and/or region specific. What if a succubus wants to commit to some of these restrictions but never came into contact with a civilization where this type of garment is normal?
Or what if the succubus has other means to hide her beauty? Like also being an ex-fiend of possession and just animating objects.

The tone you write these with and how it's presented when it is so flavor controlled matters heavily. Doing a "must hide her natural beauty.", (though I still disagree with even that sentiment) "One of the main methods a succubus can go about this is by using a special garb, such as---".

[Eloi]

Do you have to wear them every day (or at least whenever you go out in public), or do you have some choice in the matter?

Look, can we drop it because:
a) This is not a forum to discuss politically volatile subjects such as sexism in the Middle East.
b) Its massively off-topic in regards to my Prestige Class.
c) I dislike debates because they make me either very sad or very frustrated, or both, and I am sure the feeling is mutual.
So, can we move on?

[Kylarra]

How is this a prestige class rather than an acquired template? There are no levels...

[KillianHawkeye]

I dislike debates

That's a shame.


I am sure the feeling is mutual.

It's not.


So, can we move on?

If you insist.

[Eloi]

Not only that, but on just a roleplaying note... you have made this template/class too focused on just a single character concept and restricted it to such.
There's a certain "line" there you have to be careful with in order to have it more broadly appealing.

For example, you said you have to specifically where a special type of garb (or, did say if you have edited that out by now). However, that is culture and/or region specific. What if a succubus wants to commit to some of these restrictions but never came into contact with a civilization where this type of garment is normal?
Or what if the succubus has other means to hide her beauty? Like also being an ex-fiend of possession and just animating objects.

The tone you write these with and how it's presented when it is so flavor controlled matters heavily. Doing a "must hide her natural beauty.", (though I still disagree with even that sentiment) "One of the main methods a succubus can go about this is by using a special garb, such as---".

:smallsigh: I'll just delete the whole thing, I'm getting tired with debating, and it was obviously not a good idea to begin with.

[Pink]

:smallsigh: I'll just delete the whole thing, I'm getting tired with debating, and it was obviously not a good idea to begin with.

I'm curious why you would post at all if you didn't want criticism and comments. I don't think anyone has been too overly harsh in their opinions either.

[KillianHawkeye]

:smallsigh: I'll just delete the whole thing, I'm getting tired with debating, and it was obviously not a good idea to begin with.

Not to be harsh, but if you can't take a little criticism, maybe posting stuff you've written on a public forum for other people to review was a mistake.

[kamikasei]

...it would not make sense to take away the +2 charisma modifiers based on attraction if their faces/bodies were very visible...

There seems to be a weird mix of considerations at work here. You describe the class as being about redeeming oneself from evil, but in practice it appears to be a prestige class which has as its only feature a non-magical magic item which alters your racial abilities. That's a really odd mishmash. And ultimately, the real purpose of the class seems to be purely mechanical: to make succubi who take it more playable at lower levels. While that's a worthwhile aim, the implementation is messy. (What happens if the character takes off her robe?)

Incidentally, I don't know about the homebrew race you refer to, but succubi just have a straight-up charisma bonus with no reference to who finds them sexually attractive. That is to say that they're more persuasive, more compelling, and more seemingly trustworthy than an average human whether you can see them or not and whether you like what you see or not. They're also more capable as sorcerers (ECL issues aside), and fantasy artwork traditions aside that's not usually considered to be a function of distracting the laws of the universe with a low cut top.

I'd say a redeemed succubus ought to keep her charisma-related abilities - they're part of what make her a succubus - and work with the DM to tone down some abilities (teleport, shapechanging etc) and remove others (the evil ones) to reduce LA. (There's the tricky question of whether they should get a break on evil abilities since they're not really forbearing their use if they've actually been removed entirely, but really ECL in 3.5 is sufficiently borked that the player and DM should work it out on a case-by-case basis anyway.)

[Eloi]

I'm curious why you would post at all if you didn't want criticism and comments. I don't think anyone has been too overly harsh in their opinions either.

Well I was hoping for my statistical help and critique, or maybe broadening the Redeemed template to other demonic races, but the issue was with the concept itself, which apparently was offensive for reasons that still escape me, and sense people's moral beliefs are not something I can change a few numbers and it'll be fixed, so I just deleted the whole thing.

[Reinboom]

:smallsigh: I'll just delete the whole thing, I'm getting tired with debating, and it was obviously not a good idea to begin with.

Ak!

No no! I warmly welcome a succubus variant that strips them (teehee) for favor of goodly manners. Or any succubus variant there-of!

Personally, I would love to play a succubus more often if not but for their outrageous LA - which correctly could be skimmed off if dropping the most non adventuring party oriented stuff off the succubus as well (the summoning demon and self-only greater teleport mostly). In that respect, I encourage this line of development.

[Killer Angel]

Thanks. ^_^ Still relatively new to the forums, joined about six days ago if I recall correctly, so sorry about any newbie mistakes I may make.

Wow... a really impressive rate of posts/day, indeed... :smallwink:


Not to be harsh, but if you can't take a little criticism, maybe posting stuff you've written on a public forum for other people to review was a mistake.

Maybe she was ready to accept criticisms on mechanics, not on the various correlated things (flavour, etc) of the idea itself...

[Eloi]

Not to be harsh, but if you can't take a little criticism, maybe posting stuff you've written on a public forum for other people to review was a mistake.

I agreed with your sentiments that it was a bad idea, did you not want to win your debate? Honestly I have no idea what you want from me, but please tell me, I'll give it to you readily.

[Eloi]

Ak!

No no! I warmly welcome a succubus variant that strips them (teehee) for favor of goodly manners. Or any succubus variant there-of!

Personally, I would love to play a succubus more often if not but for their outrageous LA - which correctly could be skimmed off if dropping the most non adventuring party oriented stuff off the succubus as well (the summoning demon and self-only greater teleport mostly). In that respect, I encourage this line of development.

Thanks for the encouragement, I'm going to try to rework the concept and repost it, so worry not. :smallwink:

[Pink]

Well I was hoping for my statistical help and critique, or maybe broadening the Redeemed template to other demonic races, but the issue was with the concept itself, which apparently was offensive for reasons that still escape me, and sense people's moral beliefs are not something I can change a few numbers and it'll be fixed, so I just deleted the whole thing.

Then may I suggest that you specify as such and respond to comments on the flavour with such a rebuttal. It is fair enough that you are allowed to determine the fluff of your build. However if you are trying to make a successful 'product' you also need to tend to that aspect. You might also want to leave it up for more than a couple hours to see if you get more opinions on the matter.

If you plan to do homebrew, you're going to need a thicker skin is what I'm saying.

[Killer Angel]

Thanks for the encouragement, I'm going to try to rework the concept and repost it, so worry not. :smallwink:

This is the way! go on, Eloi! :smallsmile:


No no! I warmly welcome a succubus variant that strips them (teehee) for favor of goodly manners. Or any succubus variant there-of!


Given your Avatar, you're clearly not objective on the matter... :smalltongue:

[KillianHawkeye]

I agreed with your sentiments that it was a bad idea, did you not want to win your debate? Honestly I have no idea what you want from me, but please tell me, I'll give it to you readily.

What? :smallconfused:

I'm just talking. Conversing. I'm not trying to defeat you. I'm not trying to get anything other than an exchange of ideas. I posted a comment about something which I thought was a little strange, then I waited around for a conversation to start. I don't know you, and I don't bear you any malice. Please don't take this personally. And I never said it (as a whole) was a bad idea, I only disagreed with the excessively specific and distasteful clothing part. If there had been anything resembling an actual class, I'd have been happy to help you out with it.

[Eloi]

What? :smallconfused:

I'm just talking. Conversing. I'm not trying to defeat you. I'm not trying to get anything other than an exchange of ideas. I posted a comment about something which I thought was a little strange, then I waited around for a conversation to start. I don't know you, and I don't bear you any malice. Please don't take this personally. And I never said it (as a whole) was a bad idea, I only disagreed with the excessively specific and distasteful clothing part. If there had been anything resembling an actual class, I'd have been happy to help you out with it.

Oh okay, sorry for taking it personally. I'll um, use your helpful advice to uh... better the thingie for the future.

[KillianHawkeye]

Heh, sorry for not being actually helpful. :smallamused:

[Eloi]

Heh, sorry for not being actually helpful. :smallamused:

Oh, I forgive you, worry not, I harbor no seething rage or two-page long rants disputing your arguments etc. against you. I am very calm and open-minded, so I guess I'll re-work the concept with yours and other criticisms in a few days when I feel up to homebrewing again. :smallsmile:

[kamikasei]

Incidentally, was this idea prompted by a particular character or game?

[Eloi]

Incidentally, was this idea prompted by a particular character or game?

Well I enjoyed Fall-From-Grace in Planescape but that was more of a subconscious influence. Basically I wanted to have a good-aligned Succubus with low LA, with an air of mystery about her (or him). I find cloaks mysterious because they imply you are hiding something, and bandages are aesthetically interesting so I wanted to factor those in. Indeed, the modest dress sense was supposed to contrast with the normally...non-modest dress sense of non-good aligned Succubus. Basically, a morally, aesthetically, and mechanically different succubus for good alignment was my intention.

[Reinboom]

Given your Avatar, you're clearly not objective on the matter... :smalltongue:

Oh, clearly this avatar is based entirely on myself. My love of fiends is incidental.


Indeed, the modest dress sense was supposed to contrast with the normally...non-modest dress sense of non-good aligned Succubus.

Hey! That is not exclusively true! :smalltongue:
Page 94 of Fiendish Codex I has a good example of where it's not.

Though I believe the caster of that spell had other well meaning intentions for those clothes. :smalltongue:


If you remake this and do "stuff over mouth = ASF%"... you might want to word it more specifically.
You ignore ASF if your spell doesn't have somatic components. (see: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#arcaneSpellFailure)
This means that... if a spell is verbal only, that the ASF you would be adding by placing something over the mouth doesn't actually add ASF.

Just to bring you light of that rule.

[Eloi]

Thank you for the info, I am admittedly very bad at keeping all the rules straight. I'm going to have to start from scratch because I...well, I didn't save the prestige class anywhere else, so yep. I need to be more careful not to destroy things I make, heh.

[Pink]

chance i get ninjaed on this but... oh well.

Prestige Class: Chaste Succubus/Allurin (uses some pre-existing homebrew for the Allurin)

Requirements: You must be a good-aligned Paladin or Cleric, or any class with a rigid code of honor. You have to be an Allurin (LA +0 or LA +1 variants) or a Succubus/Incubus inorder to qualify for the prestige class.

Background: The Chaste Succubus/Allurin is one who flies in the face of their evil and somewhat perverted heritage in order to become a champion of good. They abstain from using their natural charm or demon-derivative special abilities in order to prove to themselves they are worthy of being a good Paladin or Cleric.


LA +0 Allurin:
You lose the +2 to Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks against those who are sexually attracted to their race and gender, +1 per Abyssal Heritor feat you posses.
You lose the Succubus Heritor feat.
You may not use Delicious Kiss (Su).

LA +1 Allurin:
You may not use Compelling Kiss (Su)
You lose the ability to use Spell-Like Ability: 3/day—Charm Person. Caster level is equal to character level. The save DC is Charisma-based.
The LA of the Allurin is set to +0.

Succubus/Incubus:
You may not use Energy Drain (Su).
You many not use your Spell-Like Abilities.
You may not use Summon Demon (Sp).
You may use Change Shape (Su) but not much outside of using it to remove demonic features from yourself, and its kind of a moot feature with the complex garb required.
The LA of the Succubus is set to +2.

Why would I want to play this?: Good question! Well, it sets up some good role-playing scenario of a Succubus or Succubus-bloodline person struggling to be a good aligned class, and they have mysterious and cool looking robes and bandages with a vaguely Arabian vibe. What's not to like? On the crunch side of things, they set the LA of the chosen race to 0 whilst still retaining the Charisma gains at the cost of losing the abilities of the race without losing the weaknesses. Succubus retain the Change Shape feature, tho' largely useless with the garb, but its still an option.

[Eloi]

^ Thank you for that. :smallbiggrin:

And now everything is (hopefully) fixed. :smallsmile:

[Killer Angel]

Oh, clearly this avatar is based entirely on myself.

this is... interesting. :smallwink:

[kamikasei]

It still feels very odd, mechanically. A template that requires you to have a particular class, and reduces your LA...

It might work a little better if you word it as something like, "a succubus who turns to good can take this template, which requires certain vows she would break by using the abilities it removes. The LA lost can be replaced by levels in paladin or cleric (or whatever). Optionally she can gain fewer levels than she sacrifices in LA in order to play at a lower level than a normal starting succubus character. If the succubus uses her prohibited abilities, she loses the benefit of the class levels gained in place of her LA (possibly until atonement)."

That's probably still rather clunky - that's going to be unavoidable unless you just make a Lesser Succubus race and don't allow characters to switch between versions in game - but seems a little cleaner to me and, more importantly, better able to handle the PCs doing something weird...

On actual changes:

Perhaps change shape could be replaced with a modified version of the changeling racial ability (expanded to allow body type to be changed at least enough to remove wings).

Allowing your RHD to stack with class levels for things like smite etc. would probably be helpful.

[Eloi]

Well I'm unsure how RHD works, and I really don't see any reason to modify Change Shape, but I will be updating the requirements, thanks. :smallsmile:

[Zeta Kai]

1) This is a cool template. It's a great RP tool, to be sure. I'd like to see more Redeemed-style template for other creatures, or maybe a generic Reformed Monster template.

2) OMG Eloi, you have the highest post-per-day ratio that I've ever seen! 52.42 posts per day! Wow, that's incredible. What are you saying? I'm sorry, I know that talking about that kinda stuff is frowned upon, but you said that you joined the forums last week, & I noticed that you were already an OrcITP, which is... impressive. Certainly noteworthy. Again, wow.

[Eloi]

1) This is a cool template. It's a great RP tool, to be sure. I'd like to see more Redeemed-style template for other creatures, or maybe a generic Reformed Monster template.

2) OMG Eloi, you have the highest post-per-day ratio that I've ever seen! 52.42 posts per day! Wow, that's incredible. What are you saying? I'm sorry, I know that talking about that kinda stuff is frowned upon, but you said that you joined the forums last week, & I noticed that you were already an OrcITP, which is... impressive. Certainly noteworthy. Again, wow.

1) I'm thinking of more high LA, evil monsters that would be more balanced without its special abilities to apply the redeemed template to. Thanks for the compliments. ^_^
2) Its summer, I have a lot of free time to just be on my computer, think of homebrew ideas, participate in RPs, and comment in random threads that are new that I find interesting. Pretty much it.

[Strudel110]

Cool idea I can't wait for more, unfortunately I have nothing to add.

[Fable Wright]

Indeed, they still have the ability to summon demons (and all other things restricted), they just volunteer not to. So I suppose if the DM somehow got control of a Chaste Succubus PC, summon demon could be used against them, eh?

... "MALCONVOKER" as a PC. That would still be a good use for the power. So, please make a note in the first post that you can still use the power, but the summoned demon wouldn't usually help you.

[Eloi]

Redeemed Half-Fiend has been added, check first post.