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Octopus Jack
2010-06-08, 12:50 PM
Ok this is for a character concept that I want to play as. A Gnome bard/barbarian as a front liner/party support/buffer/all rounder. How could I make this concept work without sucking, any amount of optimisation would be appreciated.


Thanks in advance :smallbiggrin:

Another_Poet
2010-06-08, 01:13 PM
That's a pretty tough call. You're not even getting full bard spell progression which means you are now getting spells more slowly than almost anyone in the world. You're giving that up for mediocre melee abilities from barbarian, which don't complement bard much. And you're MAD. You'll want Str, Con, and CHa for sure and I would argue that a bard without at least 12+ Int and Dex has failed.

That said... awesome. I like it.

I would start by getting a mount. Take the Wild Cohort feat if you have feats to spare, to essentially get an animal companion; otherwise just buy a riding dog. It get a free trip attempt every time it hits with its bite. This will also give you a lot of mobility, letting you change between front line and party support as needed. Assuming you buy Ride ranks you can also have your mount full attack or move/attack without giving up any of your actions.

Normally I suggest ranged weapons for a bard and lances for mounted builds but neither of those will fit you. You want to be front line (and shooting from a mount sucks anyway), and probably shouldn't waste feats on being a mounted charger.

Consider taking Spiked Chain profic and Combat Reflexes if you have good dex.

I would invest a lot of money in scrolls and wands and max my UMD ranks if I were you to increase versatility.

ap

Eldariel
2010-06-08, 01:26 PM
I'd say you might want to abuse the fact that Sublime Chord can actually make Rage Mage work somewhat. The level 7 ability is actually quite good (though the rest of the class kinda sucks) and with Versatile Spellcaster (or Sanctum Spell or Dragonsblood Pool or any other early entry trick), you can get in early enough to still get full Sublime Chord casting.

Warblade has many Barbarian-like maneuvers; that could be a good choice given you can stack Inspire Courage with Warblade-levels. Bard 3/Barbarian 1/Warblade 16 with Song of the White Raven and Extra Rage could work out to an extent.

Bard 4/Barbarian 1/Rage Mage 5/Sublime Chord 2/Rage Mage +3/whatevergishprc (Abjurant Champion, Sacred Exorcist, something of the sort) for the rest would work out quite well.


That's some options. Pick what exactly it is you desire. I'm thinking you might really like the Barbarian/Bard/Warblade since Warblade supplements both, the "Rage Hulk Smash!" and the group buffing, while advancing Inspire Courage.

Khatoblepas
2010-06-08, 01:34 PM
Bard 1/Warblade 19 with Song of the White Raven and a Ring of Undersong*

*Undersong is in the Spell Compendium, for the duration it replaces any Concentration checks with Perform checks.

Most of the "Replace with skill checks" manuevers use concentration.

Slaughter your foes with the POWER OF ROCK.

Eloi
2010-06-08, 01:35 PM
Bard 1/Warblade 19 with Song of the White Raven and a Ring of Undersong*

*Undersong is in the Spell Compendium, for the duration it replaces any Concentration checks with Perform checks.

Most of the "Replace with skill checks" manuevers use concentration.

Slaughter your foes with the POWER OF ROCK.

You could get an Axe that you can both play and chop down foes with.

Escheton
2010-06-08, 01:53 PM
Warchanter comes to mind. Mostly due to being a halfling bardbarian in ddo.
There are plenty of songsubstitution feats that rock. Not sure where though.
Dipping dragon shaman might be nice for the feedback and vigor.

Keld Denar
2010-06-08, 02:05 PM
Bard 1/Warblade 19 with Song of the White Raven and a Ring of Undersong*

*Undersong is in the Spell Compendium, for the duration it replaces any Concentration checks with Perform checks.

Most of the "Replace with skill checks" manuevers use concentration.

Slaughter your foes with the POWER OF ROCK.

Bard1/Warblade19 is bad, as it requires to to invest unneeded feats in Extra Music for fear of being a 1 hit wonder (see what I did there?). While Song of the White Raven advances IC progression, it doesn't give you more music per day.

More balanced would be a Bard4/Warblade16. This also has the side effect of netting you one 2nd level spell. Trogform (aka Alter Self) is a good choice for boosted AC, but Mirror Image and Whirling Blade are also decent choices. This gives you the 1st level spell slots you need to power Inspirational Boost ~3 times per day, and 4 bardic music attempts, all of the loss of a single extra IL and no BAB.

Octopus Jack
2010-06-08, 02:21 PM
Bard 4/Barbarian 1/Rage Mage 5/Sublime Chord 2/Rage Mage +3/whatevergishprc (Abjurant Champion, Sacred Exorcist, something of the sort) for the rest would work out quite well.



As I havn't used ToB things before and neither has my group this looks like the most likely option, just going to sort out feats and the like. Thanks for the help so far guys, if you think of anything more keep it coming in please

Keld Denar
2010-06-08, 02:48 PM
In that case, I'd HIGHLY suggest using Human as a chassis here. Sublime Chord has some NASTY skill prereqs that are pretty tough to meet if you aren't straight bard or bard+bard PrCs. Able Learner goes a long way toward helping you meet those prereqs as it pretty much makes all skills you've ever had as class skills, class skills for all time, allowing you to buy points on a 1:1 basis.

Eldariel
2010-06-08, 02:56 PM
In that case, I'd HIGHLY suggest using Human as a chassis here. Sublime Chord has some NASTY skill prereqs that are pretty tough to meet if you aren't straight bard or bard+bard PrCs. Able Learner goes a long way toward helping you meet those prereqs as it pretty much makes all skills you've ever had as class skills, class skills for all time, allowing you to buy points on a 1:1 basis.

This is good advice. Also, look at the PHBII Retraining rules; you can basically retrain 4 points per level from skill to skill. This allows you to kinda streamline your initial skills into fewer, more developed skills as you gain level and your max skill cap grows (first level in Bard earns you a ton of SP).

Octopus Jack
2010-06-08, 04:40 PM
I'm trying to stick with gnome as much as possible but I'll go human if it is absolutely necessary, would one of the ACF totem barbarians work better or just stick with core barbarian?

Greenish
2010-06-08, 04:43 PM
I'm trying to stick with gnome as much as possible but I'll go human if it is absolutely necessary, would one of the ACF totem barbarians work better or just stick with core barbarian?AFC stacking, woot! Barbarian 1: Spirit Lion Totem (Fast Movement -> Pounce), Whirling Frenzy. Barbarian 2: Wolf totem (Uncanny Dodge -> Improved Trip). Frenzy and whip trip your way to victory (while singing).

Keld Denar
2010-06-08, 05:05 PM
You could just plead with your DM to open up Able Learner to other races than just humans. It wouldn't break the game. Trust me though, when I say you will NOT have enough skill points to qualify for Sublime Chord without it though. Too many cross class skills in too many places.