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Moonlitdreams
2010-06-08, 04:26 PM
Hi, playgrounders. I could use some help. In a game of Pathfinder rules with 3.5 supplements allowed that I DM, the players have gotten it into their heads that they are going to track down a villain that is much higher level than them. I did not intend them to directly fight this guy for at least 5 more levels, so I was thinking of having the "feeler" spies they sent out to look for the guy return with the location to some backup bases the BBEG has, not the big one. That is also because they could not find the main base.

Now, comes the hard part. I need to populate these backup bases with the BBEG's grunts and lieutenants that might have a hint to where the real base is, as well as to make them a significant challenge to the party. With luck, they could level a few times before they get the hint to the main base.

The party consists of a Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker, a Warlock, a CoDzilla type Cleric, a Monk, another Fighter, a Cavalier, a Dragonfire Adept and a Scout. All in the levels 9-10 range.

Now, I know that I want one base to have kobolds, as the BBEG is a half-dragon. Another base is going to have followers of Tiamat, and the third... possibly some planar bound critters that Lawful Evil BBEG has around.

What I need assistance with is the actual builds for the enemies and suggestions for layout of the bases and tactics. Reasonably optimized, please, as this party is rather experienced and difficult to challenge. Thanks for the help! :smallsmile:

Moonlitdreams
2010-06-08, 06:22 PM
Anyone? I have virtually all books available except for Tome of Battle and Magic of Incarnum, if that helps.

subject42
2010-06-08, 07:36 PM
You could totally mess with your party by creating multiple Simulacra of your BBEG in your various bases, and apply varying contingencies to each Simulacrum.

Not only would it misdirect them a bit, but it would let them hone their dragon fightin' skills.

Moonlitdreams
2010-06-08, 07:38 PM
That would be interesting, and I have a few ideas that could work with that, but what sort of contingency would you suggest?

subject42
2010-06-08, 09:57 PM
With craft contingent spell?


Teleport, to hide the body
Cloudkill, four rounds after death
Animate dead, so they have to fight a zombie simulacrum after the fight.
Summon swarm, just to eat the body
Maximized Fireball when struck with a critical hit.
Teleport, to launch the dead body 20d6 points of damage above the party.

Moonlitdreams
2010-06-09, 04:17 PM
Bump..
So many active threads are pushing this real far down.

jiriku
2010-06-09, 05:10 PM
I think the issue you're having is that while the Title is asking for help optimizing an encounter, what you're actually asking is for someone to write you 10-15 encounters in three separate areas. That's more or less like writing a complete adventure, and it's incredibly time-consuming. No one is likely to do that for you.

Some requests you could make that are more likely to get results:
Build a monster and post the build here asking for advice.
Build a room and ask how it could be made a more entertaining encounter area.
Sketch out a single encounter in basic detail, such as a thumbnail description of the encounter area, a list of monsters and their challenge ratings, and a sentence or two describing monster tactics. Then ask for opinions on how it could be made more interesting.

aeauseth
2010-06-09, 05:48 PM
Instead of specifics I’ll provide a “how would I start” ramble...

I would start by giving the villain the Leadership feat. Then fill out his bases with appropriate minions based on Leadership rules. Enhance the encounters with monsters friendly to the villain or ones the villain could hire. I think hirelings are cheap!

As to a significant challenge you need to determine your parties strengths and weaknesses. It’s a cheap shot, so consider sending scouting parties to determine the parties attack strategy, then let one of the scouts escape (use invisibility/hide) to report back the parties strength.

Build the difficult encounters to take advantage of their environment. An illusionary fog cloud provides cover for the foes, but the party must “interact” with the cloud or it provides TOTAL cover. Make a narrow hallway with huge AC blockers taking total defense, while casters let loose.

Another idea for casters is to use golems that heal with fire/acid damage, and then lob fire/acid balls into the fray.

No PC rogue? Lay down a few traps, possibly pit or portcullis that contain them in a small area, and then attack at range.

Will a water, underwater, cliff side, or aerial environment be appropriate? These cause problems with most parties.

For theme look at the Tiamat entry in the planar/diety book(s). There is a agent (wrong term) for each deity. One of these minor-agents of Tiamat might be a good foe.

Don’t forget to keep things varied, and make sure at least one party member is equipped to win the fight. Nothing worse than a custom encounter where no party member can do any damage. Just because they win the encounter doesn’t mean nobody died.

The dragon books might also provide some themes, monsters, and templates that might be appropriate.

Base setup? Try a tower with an obvious lower enterance, no windows, and a secret top entrance. A cave is obvious. A tiny hut style dimensional base is unique (I’ve actually never seen a module that did this). An old fort. Volcano with lava tubes (caves). Illusionary terrain?

Don’t be afraid to fill out your foes. Give them one time use items. Use minions to alert the more experienced lieutenants of the PCs so evil cleric/mage types can start their buffs.

I once had a rogue/assassin/sniper type using bane arrows + poison + true strike + buff potions. The party knew which building he was in but couldn’t locate him because he was hidden. Took the party 10 rounds to cover the open field, every other round the assassin would hit and do huge damage to the fighter. Once in the building he used swift invisibility to escape out the window. Party did managed to kill him with entangle and aoe attacks.

I'm uncear what skill they are using to TRACK your villian. It would seem pretty easy for you to evade the party. You could limit their progress based on their XXX skill, encouraging them to put more ranks in it, thus pushing the encouter off for 5 levels or so.

The fact they want to track down the villian means you did a good job getting the PC's involved in the story.

Moonlitdreams
2010-06-09, 06:11 PM
Thank you both for your advice. :)

I will post more details, but for now, one example:

One of the encounter areas was going to be inside of a series of caverns in which most of the interior has been disintegrated to make room for the rooms. The first floor is a sort of labyrinth with lots of debris for cover and scouting kobold parties. Once they get wind of the party I was going to have some retreat to the next room where there is a levitating platform that holds the quarters for some of the BBEG's lieutenants (and possibly his cohort, a Winter Wolf Monk). I like the idea of the kobolds having a few casters that use golems and heal them with their own spells.

Is there any specific flaws with this idea or ways that I can make it better?