Order of the Stick: Book 1 - Dungeon Crawlin' Fools

[chipelp3]

I want to buy this book and the other OOT books, but I intend to share them with my kids (6 and 8 yr olds). Is there any foul language or inappropriate material like in the web comic?

Thanks all for your input.

[ZerglingOne]

It is the same as comics 1 through 120 with a bit of added bonus material. It is fundamentally unchanged aside from the fact that the edges are cleaned up, typos are fixed, and certain things like the words "mind flayer" are edited out due to trademark issues.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I believe the comic is roughly aimed at PG13. Since the bulk of the material on the collections is in the archive you could always do a few spot checks. Some of the humour may go over their heads.

For my part I would have been happy having my daughter reading the collections and OOTPCs at that age. Not that she is likley to read anything Daddy reads...

Now, if you are looking at a 6 and 8 year old you might want to hold back on SOD, as the themes are a little darker than the rest of the comic.

[Basooned]

All the print comic books are just fine for children, except (imo) Start of Darkness, there is some strong language ("S" word) and its more of a Dark Fantasy genre than the giddy-happy-go-lucky of the rest of the OotS.

[Mystic Muse]

I don't recall anything particularly bad about the first book. There was the one thing about Haley's top and the thing with the fruit pie guy but beyond that I can't think of anything. The fruit pie guy is probably the only thing I'd be concerned about. Your kids probably won't get the joke about Haley's top.

[Dr.Epic]

I want to buy this book and the other OOT books, but I intend to share them with my kids (6 and 8 yr olds). Is there any foul language or inappropriate material like in the web comic?

Thanks all for your input.

Depends on how you view Elan's little invisibility stunt.

[Nimrod's Son]

If you've read the comic online and consider it suitable for your kids, then the books will be too. If you haven't, you really shouldn't be asking for advice on what is suitable to show to your own children. Especially from strangers on the internet. :smallwink:

With the arguable exception of a single use of the word "chickensh*t" in Start of Darkness, there is nothing in the books that is any worse than in the online strip. But then, the online strip contains the words "bastard", "bitch", "wanker" and "bugger", and some moderately racy innuendo, so yeah. If that's past your limit, don't go there.

Also there's a lot of killing if that makes any difference

[Ancalagon]

Well, these days kids start to see pornography on some friend's mobile phone in school when they are ten.

I think the times where you could be concerned about subtle hints in some online comic are quite are over. The current time and modern technology just shot that down pretty thoroughly.

But really... the books are the same as the online strip. So you know what is coming and it's really only your job as parent to decide if that's ok or not. I think it surely is. No kid with a healthy education will become a robber just because of a few bad words, you cannot protect your kids anyway from them (as in someone in real life will know them anyway)... but deciding stuff on your own what you subscribed to when you got kids. ;)

Start of Darkness needs a few years to understand it as what it is. Personally, I think the violence and most stuff in there is too abstract for kids anyway. SoD is more about morals, evil, deprivation and whatnot (not about violence or so), so wait until your kids are in the state to understand what's going on and why.

[Conuly]

If you don't think the webcomic is appropriate for your kids, you won't think the books are either.

[SaintRidley]

I direct you to the first comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html) in the book. There is a goblin being cut in half in the first panel.

It only gets worse from there.

I'd recommend keeping your kids far away from this sort of gratuitous violence.



Seriously, if you read the comic you should already know what you think about it. Why ask?

[factotum]

Seriously, if you read the comic you should already know what you think about it. Why ask?

Given that he said "foul language or inappropriate material like in the online comic", I think that (a) he already DOES know what he thinks about it and (b) he's under a significant misapprehension as to what Dungeon Crawlin' Fools actually IS--e.g. he thinks it's all new material and not mostly a reprint of the online strip.

[Accersitus]

6 years old may be a bit young for some of the content,
but the world is going in this (http://xkcd.com/751/)(xkcd.org webcomic) direction.

[Ancalagon]

I direct you to the first comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html) in the book. There is a goblin being cut in half in the first panel.

It only gets worse from there.

I'd recommend keeping your kids far away from this sort of gratuitous violence.

I think that's just Disney Violence. But as was pointed out several times before: It does not really matter what me or you or anyone else who is not "parent" or "other parent" thinks.

[Zevox]

I want to buy this book and the other OOT books, but I intend to share them with my kids (6 and 8 yr olds). Is there any foul language or inappropriate material like in the web comic?

Thanks all for your input.
Most of the books, as has been noted, are simply print versions of the online comic. Dungeon Crawlin' Fools covers comics 1-120, No Cure for the Paladin Blues covers comics 121-301, War and XPs covers comics 302-484, and Don't Split the Party covers comics 485-672. Each includes a handful of bonus strips not available online, which are comparable in terms of content to the strips contained in each book (so Dungeon Crawlin' Fools bonus comics are more light-hearted and one-off-joke style than later books, for instance).

The two books completely unique to print are On the Origin of PCs and Start of Darkness. The former details the Order's origin stories and is comparable in content to Dungeon Crawlin' Fools. The latter details Xykon and Redcloak's origins and is very much so a darker, more serious story, more comparable to the Darth V arc than anything else in the online comic (but it's even better).

Basically, if you've read the online comic, you should be able to determine which books, if any, you're comfortable letting your kids read based on those comparisons.

Zevox

[Lord of Syntax]

I think that's just Disney Violence. But as was pointed out several times before: It does not really matter what me or you or anyone else who is not "parent" or "other parent" thinks.

You are right. chipelp3, you are their parent, not random weirdos online. Granted, I am not the best example because I was "dropping f-bombs" left and right (how I hate that phrase) at age 10.

[SaintRidley]

I think that's just Disney Violence. But as was pointed out several times before: It does not really matter what me or you or anyone else who is not "parent" or "other parent" thinks.

I was trying to be tongue in cheek. Did I overdo it?

[Lord of Syntax]

Yeah. I deal with people that are like that for real all day, so I am sensitive.

[Vemynal]

6 years old may be a bit young for some of the content,
but the world is going in this (http://xkcd.com/751/)(xkcd.org webcomic) direction.

drat u beat me to linkin that!

[Lecan]

With the arguable exception of a single use of the word "chickensh*t" in Start of Darkness, there is nothing in the books that is any worse than in the online strip. But then, the online strip contains the words "bastard", "bitch", "wanker" and "bugger", and some moderately racy innuendo, so yeah. If that's past your limit, don't go there.

Also there's a lot of killing if that makes any difference

Wouldn't the violence be more objectionable? I mean, if I had to choose, I would rather my child swore instead of stabbing someone (not that I would be thrilled over either).

[Zevox]

Wouldn't the violence be more objectionable? I mean, if I had to choose, I would rather my child swore instead of stabbing someone (not that I would be thrilled over either).
One would guess that unrealistic depictions of violence are less likely to be imitated than the use of particular words. Especially given most TV, movies, and games these days involve some form of violence or another, so they're pretty likely to have been exposed to that already anyway.

Zevox

[Lord of Syntax]

If you've read the comic online and consider it suitable for your kids, then the books will be too. If you haven't, you really shouldn't be asking for advice on what is suitable to show to your own children. Especially from strangers on the internet. :smallwink:

With the arguable exception of a single use of the word "chickensh*t" in Start of Darkness, there is nothing in the books that is any worse than in the online strip. But then, the online strip contains the words "bastard", "bitch", "wanker" and "bugger", and some moderately racy innuendo, so yeah. If that's past your limit, don't go there.

Also there's a lot of killing if that makes any difference

And the rebuttal:

Here we have perhaps the most common, well-known of infringements on young people’s free speech, the idea that if they say one of a certain set of words deemed “evil”, and therefore only adults may say them, then they have sacrificed their bodily autonomy (what little they are allowed anyway). Once a young person has said one of these words, all his purity and innocence is suddenly gone, and a nearby adult must assault him in some way to somehow cleanse him, I guess.

Because, of course, it’s okay to harm a child or teen if they have - gasp! - offended an adult somehow. And how have they offended the adult? Because everyone knows “c...hildren” are supposed to be pure and innocent, and they must retain this purity and innocence at all times, and should they deviate from it even in the slightest, such as by spouting “damn it!” after stubbing a toe, then they are worthless. People often think our society reveres children, but not really. What is revered is the adult ideal of children, the ideal of how children should be, how they should, by adults’ definitions, be always pure and innocent, and it is the highest crime for that purity and innocence to be breached. Such as by the child hearing or saying these “evil” words. You know, the words they’re already going to use once they’re older anyway, if they aren’t already secretly.

Therefore, adults’ ideal of childhood purity and innocence is always more important than a young person’s free speech or bodily autonomy! And this is somehow supposed to be protecting children. If by protecting children you really mean protecting adult privilege, sure.

You can’t truly believe in free speech yet have the nerve to believe young people shouldn’t have it. Oh, you’re bothered that “some punk kid” is using filthy language? Well, too bad. Because there is absolutely nothing that kid could have said that could be anywhere near as repugnant as your sanctimonious urge to silence him violently.

[Edna]

My kids starting reading the OoTS books around ages 8. The online strips you can preview yourself, so Dungeon Crawlin' Fools should be fine. A little bit of PG language, but nothing too bad.

One of the other books (SoD?) did bring a question from my eight-year-old on what a "whore" was, so you might want to preview that one. (For the record, I simply refused to answer that question until my daughter was a bit older--10 or so.)

[Ancalagon]

I was trying to be tongue in cheek. Did I overdo it?

Actually... I don't know. Or better, I cannot tell you that. You have to decide that. Also others have to decide what they think.

About the topic (and assuming "you" were concerned about the starting question): Personally, I think it's ok to ask and if you are concered about those things (if OotS was too much for...) then it surely is a legit question to ask. While many people replied "well, your call" I think you also got various positions on the topic (in general as well as in regard to OotS)... so I think you have more information than before.

That you have to make the descision does not have to mean you cannot (or should not) ask anyone!

[KoboldRevenge]

the books are the same as the comics.

[Nimrod's Son]

And the rebuttal:
Well, that's all very nice and all but I can't see any possible way that could be described as a "rebuttal" to my post. In fact I pretty much agree with your quote there, but if it has any kind of relevance whatsoever to what I wrote then I'm not quite getting it.

[ekedolphin]

All in all, I'd rate both Books -1 as being PG-13, and almost, but not quite, R. For example, people's faces get shattered; people's heads get bashed in (off-panel); Right-Eye loses his eye; Redcloak kills his own brother; Dorukan and Lirian are killed and their spirits are imprisoned; and goblin children are senselessly massacred by the Sapphire Guard. Only the fact that the "limitations" of the artwork mean that there isn't heavy bloodletting prevented me from giving it an R-rating. I would use extreme discretion before allowing either of your children to read Start of Darkness.

I'd rate Book 0: On the Order of PC's as PG, but almost PG-13. It uses the word "whores", and even shows a character soliciting them. I suppose if I were rating it for the MPAA or something, I'd also mention that there's a heavy imbibing of alcoholic beverages, used for comedic effect.

In the interest of full disclosure, however, I have no children.

[chipelp3]

Thank you all very much for your replies.

Bottom lines are:

1) I did not know that the book is same as online comic (hence, is why I am asking in the first place).

2) I did not come here to ask "online weirdos" about how to be a parent - I came here to ask those of you who have been here more than me - just look how many posts/threads I have made... I did not think/assume/preceive that any of you are/were "online weirdos" - if so, then I am one as well :smallredface:

3) Although, I did not mention it, as the father of my children, I do not mind them seeing the violence. It was mainly the language and induendos that I was concerned about.

In essence, this was overall the best simple answer to my question:

06-09-2010 07:36 AM
Conuly
Re: Order of the Stick: Book 1 - Dungeon Crawlin' Fools
If you don't think the webcomic is appropriate for your kids, you won't think the books are either.

For anyone who is curious about my course of actions from this point forward - I have decided that I will not buy the book for my household (yet). I have enough things to worry about as it is without adding to the arsenal of bad influence aimed at my children. Albeit, OOTS isn't "that" bad compared to other stuff out there, but still.


Thanks all again for your inputs and insights! :smallsmile: