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Mainlander
2010-06-09, 10:03 AM
Hey, Playground! First off, I wasn't sure if this should go here or in the Homebrew Design section. I decided to default to here, as I'll probably add in a campaign journal when I get the chance to run the game in the summer.

Mouse Guard: Spruce Woods

Alright, so what's this all about? Those of you familiar with Mouse Guard know that the Mouse Guard Roleplaying Game rulebook comes with a finely crafted setting placing the characters in an area called only 'the Territories'.

While skimming the comics and the rulebook, though, I couldn't help but picture that kind of grand adventure in areas I was personally familiar with: in the forest outside my backyard, my family's private land, the bay up by my university, and the area where I grew up (all forested areas, but each pretty unique).

Eventually, I decided I wanted to flesh it out. I wanted to recreate Mouse Guard in my own campaign setting, if you will. I settled on an area near where I grew up as a rough basis (Spruce Woods, Manitoba: home to Spirit Sands, a desert, Lake Sewell, a lake, the Woods themselves, and the endless fields of Manitoba). It was a perfect place to set a game like Mouse Guard; so many vibrant environments in an area small enough that you could believe a mouse could interact with them all.

So, I don't have the actual rulebook yet, but I want to get the setting out of the way (as play will start soon after I do get the book). As far as I know, the game makes two major assumptions: the characters are members of a non-profit organization known as Mouse Guard, and the mice in the gameworld are sentient with midieval level technology, while normal animals are normal (except weasels, which are intelligent, and humans, which don't exist). Verification on this would be good, as would any other major assumptions the game makes.

I've taken the liberty to assume that the Playground would actually like to read about my various worldbuilding designs. I figured it would be a great place to get input and suggestions along the way, but I guess I should ask first: would you guys mind? Familiarity with Mouse Guard isn't needed, as I'll be working on fluff only for now.

Thank in advance,
Mainlander

Thieves
2010-06-09, 12:23 PM
Hello. The answer to actually all your questions is positive; not here, this belongs in Homebrew, but this will get moved by a moderator (so look for it there if you can't find it). What you know about the setting so far is true.

As for brewing the setting: in the Playground, yes, people do start such projects and read them; you have to watch, however, not to get discouraged if you don't get much response, because Mouse Guard is not very popular and is a very un-crunchy game. D&D 3.5 is good for homebrewing, as it's all about numbers; in MG they are of background value - so this means there's not much to be put in there.

As for Manitoba, well, I couldn't know any better because I'm like half the world away, but I guess that the habitat is quite similar to the temperate one already depicted in MG. (The difference being MG is warm temperate and Manitoba is probably cold temperate... maybe double cold temperate) This means, that while I do acknowledge it can be a personal venture for you, it might be difficult finding a following for people who don't have such good ties to nature...

So, what I have to say, be patient about the feedback.

For once, after I get some of the exam-strain off of my head, I'll be glad to try to help you in one way or another.

Totally Guy
2010-06-09, 12:29 PM
A good thing about building a world in this system is that you can leave plenty of gaps. There's a skill called a Wise which is like a knowledge skill.

So a player could take the "Manitoba Sands-wise" skill and could then have some say over defining facts in play.

A player could say "The sand is home to a colony of tasty worms if you know where to look. I want to test Manitoba Sands-wise". You'd then set the obstacle for the test, say Obstacle 2. Then the player would roll the dice and with two successes the tasty worms become canon.

So you don't need to think of *everything*. But big picture is important. What of weasels? What do the denizens of Spruce Woods think of the guard?

The mouse villages tend to have certain traits associated with them. Like characters from the science town might be able to pick up "inquisitiveness", or the miner town might tend to have "big paws". So when you design a town think about the culture of the people and what kind of traits and skills they might have.

If I were you I'd talk to the players about what sort of character they want to play and then back-design the hometowns of the protagonists around that. Or even let them tell you about the towns.

Once you get the book you could have a look at the animals that might be missing from your world. There are no rats or cats in the book. Fortunately Animal Nature looks like quite an simple thing to homebrew. Maybe lake Sewell has mighty swans to hide from.

Weather is a big element to the nature of the conflicts. I suggest leaving that alone.

Outside the world building aspect I recommend not changing any of the game rules. There are non-trivial reward cycles hidden away, not immediately obvious.

Edit:


very un-crunchy game.

Don't mistake it for rules light. There is a lot of depth to this game.

Thieves
2010-06-09, 12:47 PM
Don't mistake it for rules light. There is a lot of depth to this game.

Well, I yet have to get a really good look at the whole mechanics part, but with "not crunch-much" I meant that in MG you don't have (/ don't seem to have) the question of D&D-like homebrewing, like optimization, making up dozens of PrCs / abilities just to make Wizard #23-B who happens to have Wizard #3-A spellcasting and Ranger #20-xA fighting techniques. Long story short, not much to fiddle and not much use fiddling too extensively with mechanical stuff. (Although while skimming I got the impression there's not a lot to do except play as the Guard...)

Not saying it's bad, hell no! It's quite refreshing when RP is a number of times more important than numbers.

CarpeGuitarrem
2010-06-09, 12:48 PM
So, I don't have the actual rulebook yet, but I want to get the setting out of the way (as play will start soon after I do get the book). As far as I know, the game makes two major assumptions: the characters are members of a non-profit organization known as Mouse Guard, and the mice in the gameworld are sentient with midieval level technology, while normal animals are normal (except weasels, which are intelligent, and humans, which don't exist). Verification on this would be good, as would any other major assumptions the game makes.

Correct. The Mouse Guard is in charge of keeping order throughout the Territories, protecting them from the Weasels, providing safe escort between towns (after all, the in-between bits are filled with wild animals and such). The weasels are evil, and need some sort of evil place to be evil. In Mouse Guard, that's a network of tunnels dug beneath the Territories, which the mice keep a close guard on. The weasels once invaded, long before.

You're going to want to "stat out" towns. For the major towns and cities (the MG rulebook has eight), there's a name, a short description, and then notes on Location/Structure, Size, Government, Major Trades, and Imports/Exports. You may not need all of those. Then there's a slew of lesser-known towns and settlements, which have a small one-line description. Rules-wise (can I use my rules-wise?), each major town has two/three skills associated with it, and a trait, or sometimes two. These characterize the town's culture, and help shape MG characters who grew up there.

I happen to really, really like Mouse Guard, by the way...though I have yet to play, I've burrowed left and right through the rules.

Britter
2010-06-09, 12:53 PM
It is my opinion that this sort of world-burning should be done at the table, with the players of the game. By locking a lot of details in, you are minimizing the players ability to add authorship to the setting. Glug pointed out how wises interact with the world, and I feel that you will lock your players out of that possibility by using a more standardized "world building process". I feel that such a process is counter to the spirit of games such as Mouse Guard and the rest of the Burning Wheel Family. Such games are less about the setting, and more about the conflict facing the characters and how the characters beliefs are shaped and challenged by the conflict.

Over on the Burning Wheel forums, Luke Crane has a list of questions to use in order to frame a setting within the context of MG and BW, and I would recomend heading over there to check them out.

Mind you, this is just my opinion, and is in no way meant to discourage you from continuing the project.

Good luck.

Totally Guy
2010-06-09, 12:57 PM
It is my opinion that this sort of world-burning should be done at the table, with the players of the game. By locking a lot of details in, you are minimizing the players ability to add authorship to the setting.

If you can do this, you should do this! :smile:

Mainlander
2010-06-09, 01:18 PM
It is my opinion that this sort of world-burning should be done at the table, with the players of the game. By locking a lot of details in, you are minimizing the players ability to add authorship to the setting. Glug pointed out how wises interact with the world, and I feel that you will lock your players out of that possibility by using a more standardized "world building process". I feel that such a process is counter to the spirit of games such as Mouse Guard and the rest of the Burning Wheel Family. Such games are less about the setting, and more about the conflict facing the characters and how the characters beliefs are shaped and challenged by the conflict.

Perhaps, then, I was being too eager? I was under the impression that the rulebook already provided a 'set in stone' setting, with communities and settlements from the comic book, like Lochaven or Darkheather. Do these not provide the same restrictions as the ones you think a homewbrewed setting would?

That being said, I like your suggestion. Should I set aside a sort of pre-session to work out the general setting with the players alongside character creation? Or do I just leave it blank, so to speak? I assumed that a structured setting would be beneficial to the game, but it appears I may've been wrong. :smalltongue: I apologise for not knowing the general functions of the game yet. I get the game's not like the usual RPG, but I at least thought a thought out setting would help. I feel ignorant :smalltongue:


Over on the Burning Wheel forums, Luke Crane has a list of questions to use in order to frame a setting within the context of MG and BW, and I would recomend heading over there to check them out.

Could you provide a link? My google-fu is weak.

Also: whether or not this project gets off the ground (it appears it needs plenty of rethinking. That's what I get for assuming, I guess) would anyone like to see a small campaign journal during the Summer?

Thanks for all the replies and encouragement! :smallsmile:

Britter
2010-06-09, 01:34 PM
Mainlander, you can start here with this link:

http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?4236-Setting-up-a-Burning-Wheel-campaign-world

The above deals with Burning Wheel games, but should be a good jumping off point for Mouse Guard as well. I recomend those forums for questions relating to this subject, as they deal specifically with the games in question and are frequented by the designers.

Regarding your eagerness to build the setting. I would set aside a pre-session to burn a world up, focusing on the conflict and what the players want their characters to believe. Playing a game like Mouse Guard is not really about playing a member of the Guard as much as it is about playing a character who explores WHY someone would want to be a member of the Guard. The setting itself should be malleable enough that it can accomadate player input and ideas, but it should also have a strong conflict that the players find interesting. I like your idea for a setting, however I don't think you need to do much more work beyond coming up with a few towns and villages, and then work with the players to figure out what the conflict is. The rest will write itself.

I don't think that an overly structured setting is helpful to a Mouse Guard/BW game. You need a framework to hang the conflict upon, and then just go at it and let the players, the character's beliefs, and your attempts to drive the play at challenging those beliefs add details, texture, and volume to the setting.

Honestly, if you haven't read the rulebook yet, you might want to wait until you have before diving too deeply into this project, not because the rules are challenging, but because the style and goal of the game is, in my opinion, VASTLY different then the standard style of RPG gaming.

Mainlander
2010-06-09, 01:43 PM
Mainlander, you can start here with this link:

http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?4236-Setting-up-a-Burning-Wheel-campaign-world

The above deals with Burning Wheel games, but should be a good jumping off point for Mouse Guard as well. I recomend those forums for questions relating to this subject, as they deal specifically with the games in question and are frequented by the designers.

Regarding your eagerness to build the setting. I would set aside a pre-session to burn a world up, focusing on the conflict and what the players believe. Playing a game like Mouse Guard is not really about playing a member of the Guard as much as it is about playing a character who explores WHY someone would want to be a member of the Guard. The setting itself should be malleable enough that it can accomadate player input and ideas, but it should also have a strong conflict that the players find interesting. I like your idea for a setting, however I don't think you need to do much more work beyond coming up with a few towns and villages, and then work with the players to figure out what the conflict is. The rest will write itself.

I don't think that an overly structured setting is helpful to a Mouse Guard/BW game. You need a framework to hang the conflict upon, and then just go at it and let the players, the player's beliefs, and your attempts to drive the play at challenging those beliefs add details, texture, and volume to the setting.

Honestly, if you haven't read the rulebook yet, you might want to wait until you have before diving too deeply into this project, not because the rules are challenging, but because the style and goal of the game is, in my opinion, VASTLY different then the standard style of RPG gaming.

Hmm, thanks for the honest input. I've only yet skimmed the rulebook, and it was mostly just reading and rereading the conflict section to wrap my head around it. My book doesn't come until the end of the month, which is chalk full with exam stuff (final year of high school) and then the game is scheduled to start at the beginning of summer, so I was hoping to get as much done beforehand as possible. It sounds as if it doesn't require a whole lot of effort on my part as say, a D&D world would, so I guess I'll just use the outline I have and present that to my players on a presession prior to gameplay.

Thanks for the help, guys! :smallsmile: Sorry for my ignorance and coming into this whole idea so uneducated on the topic. :smalltongue: You've been great help. I'm going to put off any hard and fast worldbuilding until I get the book, I think.

Britter
2010-06-09, 01:47 PM
Mainlander, I would strongly recomend checking out the Mouse Guard section of the Burning Wheel forums. It will help you out a lot more then just about anything else will, short of reading the rules, finding some players, and trying the game.

As a long time gamer with nearly two decades of DnD, Shadowrun, MERP/ICE and similar games under my belt, it has taken me the better part of 4 months to even start to grok what exactly makes BW and the other games in the family different, and without a resource like the BW forums, I think I would still be rather lost in understanding the point of the games.