Calculating APL/CR of party

[Aeromyre]

Ok I'm the DM of a group of five about to get started again this sunday for the first time in almost a year. We had a AD&D Campaign but i've converted characters and whatnot to Pathfinder.
My party consists of this
Geon Treebark, Barbarian level 6 Player Has 30 year exp (in AD&D)
Jabu Moondust, Cleric of Dionysis level 5, 10 years exp (been my partner in learning 3.5/PF rules)
Madi, Summoner wizard level 5, 2 years exp (also plays Mutants and Masterminds with Jabu and I)
Thomore, Ranger level 3, Very limited exp made it to sessions 1/3 of the time
Illidan, Warmage (from Complete Arcane) level 3, (Thinks everything is world of warcraft... also limited experience because he failed to come to sessions)

But anyways, when calculating APL or the party's effective CR, do i simply average the levels? Because i find you could have two level 20s and 10 level 1s and their APL would be 4.
So when calculating the CR of a monster encounter i get the APL then count the number of creatures and use this table to adjust the CR.
http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb83/radmaster64/?action=view&current=CRADJUSTTABLE.png
So would it make sense to do the same thing for the party?
i mean you could have 16 level 4s and their APL would be 4 no matter what but with this adjustment their CR would be 12.

So if I used this method to determine the party's CR it would be 8.
I really want to know because it give me an idea how powerful my bosses should be.

if you can't see the picture it's here http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb83/radmaster64/?action=view&current=CRADJUSTTABLE.png

Thanks in advance

[kamikasei]

This (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm) encounter calculator can be used to check disparate PC levels as well as monster CRs, and claims your party are party level 5.3 (higher than the average because there are more than four of them).

[Aeromyre]

This (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm) encounter calculator can be used to check disparate PC levels as well as monster CRs, and claims your party are party level 5.3 (higher than the average because there are more than four of them).

Oh wow that's a great tool thank you very much :smallbiggrin:

[jiriku]

A useful way to figure the effective party level of an odd group of PCs is to calculate their Challenge Rating as if they were a monster encounter, then subtract four. By my figuring, that also comes out to be 5th level or slightly higher. Working in your favor, the players who are unreliable are also low-level. That means that their presence or absence has relatively little impact on the party's ability to defeat encounters.

[Another_Poet]

Be aware also that in Pathfinder it is assumed that most party members will be very close to each other in levels. For instance everyone is level 7 or 8, or everyone is level 3 or 4 or 5.

Converting the XP might leave you with 2nd level characters and 15th level characters in the same party. While that was more common in AD&D you will find it will make battles very .... interesting in PF.

Monsters of, say, CR 9 will be easily defeated by the 15th level PCs while possibly killing the 2nd (or even 4th) level PCs with a single hit.

It's going to be a little brutal and the best tactic may be for the lower level characters to simply hide or run. If this is amusing to your players then no problem. Otherwise you might consider toying with their XP a little, making the inexperienced characters 8th level and the uber experienced characters 10th level for example. This will be more survivable and allow for balanced encounters.

[Aeromyre]

Be aware also that in Pathfinder it is assumed that most party members will be very close to each other in levels. For instance everyone is level 7 or 8, or everyone is level 3 or 4 or 5.

Converting the XP might leave you with 2nd level characters and 15th level characters in the same party. While that was more common in AD&D you will find it will make battles very .... interesting in PF.

Monsters of, say, CR 9 will be easily defeated by the 15th level PCs while possibly killing the 2nd (or even 4th) level PCs with a single hit.

It's going to be a little brutal and the best tactic may be for the lower level characters to simply hide or run. If this is amusing to your players then no problem. Otherwise you might consider toying with their XP a little, making the inexperienced characters 8th level and the uber experienced characters 10th level for example. This will be more survivable and allow for balanced encounters.

Yes i thought of this, I don't like to give anyone anything that they didn't earn. I also find the fun of D&D is to actually work to level up and be the best. I may take my two noobish players on some solo adventures, to catch them up with my level 5s and 6. all of these characters were converted from AD&D. Iroically the Ranger and the Warmage have some good magic items, http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/items.php?ID=274 and a wand of fireball. They earned these items and i think it gives them a boost up with the other players.

[Another_Poet]

Yes i thought of this, I don't like to give anyone anything that they didn't earn. I also find the fun of D&D is to actually work to level up and be the best.

That's a fine and perfectly fair philosophy. The question that arises though is... do your players share that view? If they do not, then you might see them getting very frustrated. If they are not having fun then its time to think of other things besides who earned what and start to address game balance.

Good idea on offering them solo side-quests to help even the odds.

Out of curiosity, what is the level spread on these characters? 1st to 10th? 2nd to 6th? How far apart are they?