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Calintares
2010-06-09, 04:54 PM
I find the list of availible poisons in the DMG to be a bit limited, and I would like to introduce new types of poisons in my world; but I have a few questions

first, what does the prices in the DMG entail? Does the price of dragon bile include the extremely risky task of aquiring the bile of a dragon, or is it the price that is representative for a poison with those qualities described?

second, would it be possible to carry around a menagerie of something poisonus such as scorpions and destill the poison yourself

third, I guess the skill that would be used to make your own poisons would be Craft (alchemy), how do I determine the DC for different poisons, the cost of making them and what price I could sell them for.

Specifically I'm looking for the price for a ingested poison with a DC of 30 that causes uncounciousness for one hour.

Eldariel
2010-06-09, 05:01 PM
first, what does the prices in the DMG entail? Does the price of dragon bile include the extremely risky task of aquiring the bile of a dragon, or is it the price that is representative for a poison with those qualities described?

Poison rules assume you're acquiring it from the black market or something and it's hugely expensive; CAdv and CScoundrel go into detail with this. Those are the "full prices" and you can easily cut 0s or more out of each. But they assume you're buying ready poison in places where it's illegal.


second, would it be possible to carry around a menagerie of something poisonus such as scorpions and destill the poison yourself

Sure. There are rules for that in Drow of the Underdark, making Vermins provide poison with Handle Animal, that is. You should also be able to harvest poison from recently deceased creatures if you act quickly. And note that Craft: Poisonmaking has special rules for the raw material expenses; they only cost 1/6th when you have the source of the raw materials available (and as much as 3/4th if you buy the ingredients from the black market). Also, the progress is counted in GPs, not SPs as usually with Craft.


third, I guess the skill that would be used to make your own poisons would be Craft (alchemy), how do I determine the DC for different poisons, the cost of making them and what price I could sell them for.

Craft: Poisonmaking is the skill. The DCs...you gotta eyeball them. Same for Craft DCs. Though the mechanics themselves are a bit bad and could use rewriting.


Specifically I'm looking for the price for a ingested poison with a DC of 30 that causes uncounciousness.

Ingested poisons in general tend to be a bit cheaper. Unconsciousness (for what duration?) is in general one of the lesser effects (for whatever reason), but DC 30 is pretty high. I'd look at Dragon Bile as a baseline. You could even use the same cost as the higher DC is made up for by the "weaker" effect and worse injection method. For rules as written. I, personally, just use another set of poison rules entirely (I cover it somewhat in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8390205&postcount=63)).

Mystic Muse
2010-06-09, 08:26 PM
Where's dragon bile? Our group is fighting one and getting a nice poison from it might be a good idea.

Although, I wonder if harvesting poisons counts as a violation of the Paladin code...

WarKitty
2010-06-09, 08:30 PM
Where's dragon bile? Our group is fighting one and getting a nice poison from it might be a good idea.

Although, I wonder if harvesting poisons counts as a violation of the Paladin code...

Bile is generally stored in the gallbladder. Look sort of around the stomach.

Eldariel
2010-06-09, 08:30 PM
Where's dragon bile? Our group is fighting one and getting a nice poison from it might be a good idea.

Although, I wonder if harvesting poisons counts as a violation of the Paladin code...

Dragon Bile is in the DMG, but I'm thinking it's just a moniker.

Mystic Muse
2010-06-09, 08:31 PM
Bile is generally stored in the gallbladder. Look sort of around the stomach.

......I really need to start making my posts clearer.

I meant what page.

Eldariel
2010-06-09, 08:32 PM
......I really need to start making my posts clearer.

I meant what page.

Page 284 IIRC.

flabort
2010-06-09, 08:50 PM
6th from the top on the table. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#poison)
contact poison, DC 26, does 3d6 strength damage with no secondary damage, costs 1500 gp.

really nice, but expensive.

now, oil of taggit, an ingested 15 DC poison dealing absolutely NO damage, but causing unconsiosness for 1d3 hours, costs only 90 gp.
uh... DC 30?... double the dose, perhaps...?

the highest DC on that chart is 26, dragons bile, and the next highest is 24, purple worm poison, an injury poison.

sorry, can't help with a DC 30 ingestion poison dealing unconsiosness, but you could talk with your DM about refining some oil of taggit into something stronger?

Mystic Muse
2010-06-09, 09:02 PM
Okay. Now I just have to not disintegrate the dragon. Unfortunately, due to his AC that's going to be easier said than done.

Xuc Xac
2010-06-09, 09:04 PM
If you want an ingested poison, you can either roll really well on an alchemy or poison use skill check or roll really badly on a survival or knowledge (nature) check to pick some berries and mushrooms for a snack.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-06-09, 09:12 PM
There's rules for using the Craft skill (Craft: Poisonmaking) to make poison in the Complete Adventurer. There's also some new poisons listed in there, as well as in the Book of Vile Darkness.

The absolute best character ability for making poison is the ability to cast Summon Nature's Ally. If you summon a monstrous scorpion and it stings someone, then the spell ends and the scorpion disappears, the poison will remain in their system as they still have to make the secondary save. Similarly, you can summon creatures and milk poison from them, and it will remain after the spell ends. Given the crafting rules in Complete Adventurer, you'll end up only paying 1/6 the base price to craft a given poison this way rather than the typical 1/3.

You can also use Summon Nature's Ally/Monster VII to get a Djinni, who can use his Major Creation spell-like ability to create permanent vegetable matter. He can create finished poisons for you in huge quantities, or if your DM won't allow that he can create the raw materials so you only pay 1/6 the price to craft it. Druids are among the best poison crafters due to summong spells and since they get Venom Immunity at 9th level, there's no risk of poisoning oneself.

Finally, you could Wild Shape or Polymorph yourself into a creature which has a poisonous attack, put as much as you want to into a jar, and return to your normal form to craft poison from that. If you attack and poison an opponent while Wild Shaped or Polymorphed and then return to your normal form, they still have to make the secondary save just like with summoned creatures, so any poison milked from that form will remain after the effect has faded. Furthermore, "A creature with a poison attack is immune to its own poison and the poison of others of its kind." A character can get a Wizard to Polymorph him into a Wyvern, milk some poison into a jar, wait for the effect to run out, and make Wyvern Poison for 500g per dose that he's immune to so there's no risk of poisoning himself.