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Another_Poet
2010-06-10, 09:28 AM
Hi everyone,

A druid PC in my Pathfinder game has a Large animal companion. Normally, Enlarge Person wouldn't work on an animal, but if the druid casts it on her Animal Companion it will.* This is because of the "Share Spells" ability:

*I realize Enlarge Person isn't a ddruid spell but for sake of argument let's say she can cast it.


A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion’s type (animal).

Okay, fair enough.

So what if she crafts an item that casts Enlarge Person? Can she craft a use-activated item of Enlarge Person and have a permanently Huge animal companion? This would be way cheaper than making an Animal Growth item.

Is this possible? Or does Share Spells only apply to spells she casts actively and not to spells she puts into items she crafts?

bartman
2010-06-10, 11:00 AM
I don't think it says explicitely, but if I were DMing, I would rule that it applied to spells you cast, not magic items.

Kaiyanwang
2010-06-10, 11:04 AM
Well, Ithink that RAW an item that cast EP if activated by the druid would work..

Fax Celestis
2010-06-10, 11:05 AM
I think the intention is to allow a spell that applies to either the animal or to the druid also applies to the animal. Allowing the use of non-druid spells in this fashion opens the way for abuse (such as an animal under the effects of dragonshape or righteous might).

Another_Poet
2010-06-10, 11:15 AM
I think the intention is to allow a spell that applies to either the animal or to the druid also applies to the animal. Allowing the use of non-druid spells in this fashion opens the way for abuse (such as an animal under the effects of dragonshape or righteous might).

Fair enough. Let's asssume a person-only Druid spell then instead of EP. Would you allow the magic item made by the Druid to put the effect on the aminal pomcanion?

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 11:28 AM
Fair enough. Let's asssume a person-only Druid spell then instead of EP. Would you allow the magic item made by the Druid to put the effect on the aminal pomcanion?

I would not, especially since items and artifice are inherently unnatural.

Fax Celestis
2010-06-10, 11:31 AM
Fair enough. Let's asssume a person-only Druid spell then instead of EP. Would you allow the magic item made by the Druid to put the effect on the aminal pomcanion?

An item that uses a druid spell in its crafting and that replicates a druidic power? Sure. If not druidic, no, I wouldn't allow it.

Another_Poet
2010-06-10, 11:47 AM
Hmm... so far it is a 2/2 split vote.

Anyone else want to weigh in?

reefwood
2010-06-10, 11:50 AM
I agree with the thinking that the druid can only share spells that she casts. Not items, even if she makes the items because at that point, the item is casting the spell, not the druid. Of course, perhaps a special item could be created that works this way, but that would certainly delve into the homebrew realm which can sometimes lead in a direction contrary to the spirit of the rules.

Anyway, I also think it is important to look at the entire description of the share spells ability instead of just the one sentence highlighted in the opening post:


Share Spells (Ex): The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on herself. A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal). Spells cast in this way must come from a class that grants an animal companion. This ability does not allow the animal to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells.

Enlarge person does not typically come from a class that grants an animal companion, so based on this caveat, even if a druid could share spells through a magic item (which I don't think is possible), it wouldn't work for this spell.

The only way I can see to possibly get around this is to be a Cleric with the Animal and Strength domains. In this way, your (Cleric) class grants an animal companion and the enlarge person spell. Though, I'm not sure how appropriate this would be...to improve your animal companion by taking levels in a class that traditionally (and still now for the most part) does not even grant you an animal companion...especially since these two abilities come from separate domains. Then again, druids always used to have animal companions, but 3.5 expansion books introduced alternatives, and now in Pathfinder, a druid can opt for a Domain instead, so maybe this Cleric route isn't as off-base as it seems at first. Especially since a Cleric animal companion will have a level -3 than a druid of the same level. But I'd still say "no" to using this through an item.

CarpeGuitarrem
2010-06-10, 11:52 AM
I agree with the thinking that the druid can only share spells that she casts. Not items, even if she makes the items because at that point, the item is casting the spell, not the druid. Of course, perhaps a special item could be created that works this way, but that would certainly delve into the homebrew realm which can sometimes lead in a direction contrary to the spirit of the rules.
That's what I would say too. It's the item, not the druid, casting.

Another_Poet
2010-06-10, 12:12 PM
The vote is now 4:2 against allowing the animal companion to benefit from the item crafted by the druid.

Thanks everyone especially Reefwood and Fax for your detailed analyses.

It's a shame Wild Cohort doesn't grant Share Spells, otherwise a PF Druid could use Nature Bond to take a domain with Enlarge Person and then the Wild Cohort feat to get an AC to put it on.

I suppose a gestalt Druid (Nature Bond: Domain)//Druid (Nature Bond: AC) could do it but that is a pretty weak gestalt. Well, for a druid. So... stronger than most gestalts :)

Ah well, thanks again for the thorough responses everyone!

Paul H
2010-06-10, 07:08 PM
Hi

Suggest you read the rest of the 'Share Spells' ability. AFAIK it only applies as long as you stay withing 5' of eachother.

There again - you really don't need Enlarge Person - your companion's hard enough!

In PFS my 6th lvl Dog has 57 HP. BAB +4. Attack +8. Dam D6+6. AC 23.

Cheers
Paul H

Another_Poet
2010-06-10, 07:57 PM
Hi

Suggest you read the rest of the 'Share Spells' ability. AFAIK it only applies as long as you stay withing 5' of eachother.

Not in PF. Only in 3.5.