PDA

View Full Version : Wizard PrCs and Items



Myth
2010-06-10, 11:08 AM
Hey GITP! :) Thank you so much for giving me great advice for my NPCs a while back! Now I'm thinking of joining a new game, and the DM has decided to give us:

Books: Any official 3.5 books
Ability scores: 30 point buy
Character Level: 12
Gold: Max+500

HP per level: Max at 1st level + con mod, 1/2 HP+ con mod every level thereafter

My immediate thought was that I wanted to go for a melee character, just for the heck of it. Then I remembered that it's DnD 3.5 :smallconfused: Aaanyway, I'm toying with the idea of taking a Vampire character (maybe a Vamp cleric or Vamp bard) but depending on the party roles, I might go with the good ol' Wizard.

But If I'm going Wizard I'm going in with the nastiest cheese (well bar infinite loops). So I read http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002 < this guide. I'm considering going with Incantatrix / Initiate of the seventh vale. I do have a few questions though:

How does the best Wizard/Incantatrix progerssion go? Is it worth it to get IOTSV levels as well or should i go for something like Archmage?

What tips do you have for using Incantatrix?

Should i start off as a Conjurer and get that abrupt jaunt everyone has been talking about?

Item selection - pearls of power and rods of x i know about. What else? Complete mage has some good things i hear..

Throw in feat advice if you want to.

Thank you *bow*

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-10, 11:14 AM
Tips: don't be a vampire.

That LA is far too much for the limited benefits (it doesn't synergise particularly well with casters) and slew of random weaknesses.

No, seriously. You will be level four.

You won't even qualify for the PrC.

Greenish
2010-06-10, 11:17 AM
It's Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_of_the_Seven_Veils), not "of the Seventh Vale". :smallwink:

AmberVael
2010-06-10, 11:24 AM
You won't even qualify for the PrC.

You will, however, qualify for being stabbed with a stake. At which point you could start over. :smalltongue:

Anyway, the good thing about Incantatrix is metamagic. Metamagic metamagic metamagic. If you don't have enough metamagic to sink a battleship, you're doing it wrong.
Find other metamagic reducers, pick out the best metamagic feats, and go to town.
Arcane Thesis on certain key spells will help a ton.

Myth
2010-06-10, 11:32 AM
Well my Vampire NPC in my campaign is really fun but then again she has 16 character levels on top of being what she is. You are probably right. What about the path of Lichedom? He is planning to take us to lvl 20 (Savage Tide is the campaign)


It's Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, not "of the Seventh Vale". Damn, i messed that one up.. :redcloak:

Any equipment tips? I've read about someone's fortifying bedroll that cuts down resting times for casters, a ring of Evasion is nice too. What else?

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-10, 11:34 AM
Liches are not worth it either.

You will be 2 spell levels behind for some paltry bonuses to spell save DCs and spells per day.

You get the same boost to spellcasting for being a grey elf (LA +0), and none of the other lich abilities really apply to a PC spellcaster.

AmberVael
2010-06-10, 11:36 AM
Any equipment tips? I've read about someone's fortifying bedroll that cuts down resting times for casters, a ring of Evasion is nice too. What else?

Considering what I just posted, this might seem like I've got a one track mind, but...

Metamagic Rods. Particularly, rods of Quicken, Extend, and maybe Empower.

Runestaves are also fun, but more so for spontaneous casters, so you might not want to go for them. Because you could just buy scrolls instead (and you should.)

Obviously you'll also wants the typical Casting Stat item booster. I tend to like keeping a couple of pearls of power around too.

Myth
2010-06-10, 11:38 AM
Thanks guys! I felt bad for my DM and i put up a disclaimer. Here is how it went:


I'm toying with several ideas, ... one being a Wizard/Incantatrix + other stuff. Probably a Conjurer with Abrupt Jaunt to boot. This last character however is said to be very freaking unbalanced. I haven't played a high-powered Wizard before (my modest resume includes: one blaster with blasting PrCs who ran out of steam in a lvl 20 campaign and another wizard/warrior Gish type char only). Any comments on that choice of character?


A wizard would be of some help in the coming adventures, but so would an up-front tough fighter as well, a wizard would probably be a little harder to play for someone new but it could fill a good role in the party, up to you.


Umm I'm not that new, I know which spells to take and how to protect the character. I'm sort of placing a disclaimer here that if i go for yet another Wizard, I'm bringing home the damn bacon and making him/her a really strong character with all the best PrCs, spells, equiopment etc. But If you're fine with it, I'm ok as well


I'm fine with it, this AP is loaded with potential TPKs, so stronger characters are better.

*snicker* OK I'm definitely taking the Incantatrix and doing this!

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 11:39 AM
Considering what I just posted, this might seem like I've got a one track mind, but...

Metamagic Rods. Particularly, rods of Quicken, Extend, and maybe Empower.

Runestaves are also fun, but more so for spontaneous casters, so you might not want to go for them. Because you could just buy scrolls instead (and you should.)

Obviously you'll also wants the typical Casting Stat item booster. I tend to like keeping a couple of pearls of power around too.

You totally have a one-track mind.

And you're running a rocket-powered maglev bullet train on it.:smallamused:

Greenish
2010-06-10, 11:42 AM
*snicker* OK I'm definitely taking the Incantatrix and doing this!You should maybe look into what he considers "strong" before proceeding.

Myth
2010-06-10, 11:43 AM
Well for my lvl 20 wiz i did take : ring of evasion + ring of (oh the one that gives lvl 4 spells, for more quickened True Strikes), rods of empower/quicken, scrolls of utility spells, robe of the Archmagi, pearls of power to compensate for the burning of 5th lvl spells from Archmage, Ioun stones for + caster lvl, saving throws etc.

I am good with the SRD equipment, but I haven't read trough all the magical items from the splatbooks (I'm a latecommer to 3.5). Hence me asking.

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 11:45 AM
You should maybe look into what he considers "strong" before proceeding.

I agree. Very agree. Go down with the blow by blow on what you plan to do.

AmberVael
2010-06-10, 11:47 AM
You totally have a one-track mind.

And you're running a rocket-powered maglev bullet train on it.:smallamused:

:smallbiggrin:


...robe of the Archmagi...

Generally a bad choice. You can pretty much get (better) armor and resistance bonuses for cheaper, and the other two don't matter (Spell resistance 18 is horrendous, and +2 vs SR is trivial).

Ishcumbeebeeda
2010-06-10, 12:32 PM
I'll preface this with saying that I only skimmed some of the posts here, so if what I say is redundant or no longer relevant to your interests I apologize. Anywho... If you still want some undead flavor for your character, but without the kick in the, er, tenders that things like Vampire give you, there are various part-undead races and templates that can be quite fun. I'm on a work computer right now, which doesn't have any kind of PDF reader (which sucks, but then again I had to kinda hack it to get IE (which I HATE) working in the first place, so meh) but I'm fairly sure there are at least some with entries in the crystalkeep indeces. "Katane" seems to ring a vague bell... I think it might be daywalkery... But yeah. They can be fun.

Keld Denar
2010-06-10, 01:32 PM
Get a Circlet of Rapid Casting, and then stick a +Int bonus on it with the rules in the MIC about adding stats to afinity slots. Circlet is basically a half price Lesser Rod of Quicken. If you do it right, you can get a LOT of versatile value out of even your low level slots.

If you really want to be strong, pick a single good spell, and focus on it. Typical choices are Orb of Fire (SpC) and Enervation. Now, stack on some MM. Orb of Fire is gonna want Searing Spell (+1 adj, Sandstorm) because it negates resistance and still allows the spell to deal half damage vs [Fire] subtype creatures and other creatures natural immune to fire. It also adds +1 damage per die, or +15 damage at max potency.

Now you have the magical equivalent of a NATO 7.62 FMJ. It'll go through just about anything, but it won't make a very big hole. So...how do we make a bigger exit wound?

Empower (+2), Twin (+4), Energy Admixture (+4), Occular Spell (+2) + Split Ray (+2).

But, what is that you say? A Searing Empowered Twinned Energy Admixtured Occular Split Orb of Fire is a 19th level spell! Not for long. Since you are only using one weapon, you can take Arcane Thesis for it, reducing the cost of everything by 1. You are also a 10th level Incantatrix, reducing the cost by another 1. So...what do we have then?

Searing (-1), Empower (+0), Twin (+2), Energy Admixture (+2), Occular Spell (+0), Split Ray (+0) and a 4th level spell makes 7th level.

You could even go lower than that with Practical Metamagic or Metamagic School Focus, but its already castable by mortals, so lets stick with that.

Now, what do we get? Well, since you are the caster, and none of the feat explicitly interact in a specific way with one another (like Empower + Maximize does), I'll apply them however I want.

15d6+15 base, due to Searing Spell, thats an average of 67 damage, rounded down.

Empower it, and you have 100 damage, rounding down again.

Now, you shoot 2 of them from your eyes with Occular Spell, and each eye ray is doubled with Split Ray, so thats 4 rays total, each doing 100 damage each, totalling 400 damage. But wait, there's more. Twin Spell means this all happens twice, for 800 damage, and Energy Admixture means you double the effect, picking a new flavor, for 1600 damage, half Acid, half Fire, in nice 100 point incriments spread across up to 16 targets within 30' of each other.

Congratz, you just turned your NATO 7.62 FMJ into the magical equivalent of a claymore mine that you can carry around with you. The amount of death and destruction you can reap is amazing, and the most anyone can do is resist a quarter of it if they are IMMUNE to fire. All you have to do is make the Touch Attack...

And thats only mostly optimized. You could probably squeeze a bit more juice out of a slightly lower spell slot if you had enough patience.

If you do something like this with Enervation, you are talking about handing out dozens of negative levels, possibly even HUNDREDS of negative levels. How many levels do you have? Its probably not enough...

EDIT: I wouldn't take it to this extreme. Your DM will probably make you reroll. But you can combine some tricks. An Empowered Twinned Searing Orb of Fire would be a good place to start, clocking in at ~200 damage, average from a 5th level slot. You don't need too much more than that.

Greenish
2010-06-10, 01:40 PM
"Katane" seems to ring a vague bell... I think it might be daywalkery... But yeah. They can be fun.Katane are some sort of half-vampires with more LA than anyone wants.

Now Necropolitans, they cost you 3000 exp, but that'll be one-time investment.

Stompy
2010-06-10, 01:44 PM
Easiest thing I found for being undead is the Necropolitan template from Libris Mortis. No LA*, and fun undead immunties. I would try to avoid pimped out turning clerics of the sun though. :smalleek:

Also, because the theme is optimization beyond belief, look at Faerie Mysteries Initiate. (I don't know what book it is from.) It will allow you (through a ritual) to use your INT score instead of your CON score to determine your hit points.

I can't verify if both can be combined, but if so, laugh. (Then, cry because this would be one of the worst fluff machinations in existence.)

*you do lose a level though in your career and I not sure how this will play into your level and exp. See also, I got ninja'd here.

Keld Denar
2010-06-10, 01:56 PM
(Then, cry because this would be one of the worst fluff machinations in existence.)

What? Even undead elves need luvin. There is even a goddess for that, in Libris Mortis: The Book of Bad Latin.

Ishcumbeebeeda
2010-06-10, 05:00 PM
Katane are some sort of half-vampires with more LA than anyone wants.

Now Necropolitans, they cost you 3000 exp, but that'll be one-time investment.

That's true. I forget that people don't like LA, cuz it doesn't usually bother me. Then again, I'm a terrible optimizer... the two are probably related. There is the Gheden, though, for some undead flavor without a massive LA. It's only +1, so not bad. Especially if your group uses buy off. Here's what Crystalkeep has to say about it: (With some minor editing for GUM. Also, I can't remember how accurate it is in this instance, but I know I've looked at the actual issue of Dragon before, and I don't remember any glaring inconsistencies...)
Often Neutral Evil.
Darkvision 60’
+4 Racial bonus on Intimidate checks.
Immune to energy drain.
Immune to fear & confusion effects.
+2 Racial bonus on saves vs. Fear, Poison, Disease, Paralysis, & spells from the Necromancy school.
Gain the Endurance, Diehard, & Toughness feats.
Str +4
Dex –2
Con –2
Int –2
Cha –4
Lvl +1
CR +0
When it dies, there is a 3% per HD chance the Gheden will rise as
a mindless Undead (typically a Zombie).
Spells such as Detect Undead will detect a Gheden as if it were an
Undead of half its HD.
Fortification – there is a 50% chance that any Sneak Attack and/or
Critical Hit on the Gheden will be negated. Does not stack with
other forms of Fortification.
When saving against Negative Energy damage (such as from an
Inflict Wounds spell), the Gheden takes no damage on a
successful save and half damage on a failed save.
Slow Aging – the Gheden ages at ¼th normal rate after it reaches
maturity.
A Gheden Cleric receives a +2 bonus to Turn or Rebuke mindless
Undead.
Takes 1d4 damage from a direct hit of Holy Water.
Vulnerability to Turning – A turning attempt that would Turn or
Rebuke an Undead of half the Gheden’s HD causes the Gheden
to receive a –4 penalty on attacks, saves, skill checks, & ability
checks until the ‘turner’ attacks the Gheden, up to 10 rounds. If
the attempt would have Destroyed or Commanded the Gheden, it
is Stunned for 2d4 rounds.
Dead Nerves – Gheden have a minimal sense of touch and no
sense of pain. Not effected by non-lethal damage, stunning, &
death from massive damage. The Ghaden receives a –8 penalty
on skill checks involving touch (such as Open Lock), but
receives a +4 bonus on Concentration checks to ignore damage.
Detect Undead (mindless only), at will at Caster level.

It does have an awful lot of negative stat mods, but I rather like the other things you get, and ultimately it's a matter of personal preference as to whether you think it's worth it or not. But yeah...Necropolitan's probably better anyway. (I haven't actually looked at it yet. It's on my to do list, though.)


Snip Libris Mortis: The Book of Bad Latin.

LOL, yes!

Gorbash
2010-06-10, 05:47 PM
Problem with Vampires and Savage Tide is that lot of stuff in the AP happens on water, in which case, you're screwed.

Starbuck_II
2010-06-10, 05:49 PM
Problem with Vampires and Savage Tide is that lot of stuff in the AP happens on water, in which case, you're screwed.

Amphibious template overrides vamp + water issue. LA 0, in Stormwrack (-2 Dex)

Myth
2010-06-11, 02:16 AM
Well thank you all for the replies! The DM is really OK with my character I suppose:


Well I've been reading The Player's Guide to Faerun, and it seems Incantatrixes are almost exclusively female.. sigh.. So, I will be playing a Human Conjurer 5 /Incatatrix 7 for starters, going for Conjurer 5 / Incantatrix 10 / Archmage 5 ultimately.

She will be a baad baaaaad girl and so i'm warning you (DM), this is arcane power incarnate (well not Pun Pun or infinite shadow dragons, but.. well you'll see)


good luck, Arcane power Incarnate is OK with me, whatever keeps you and the party alive.

Okay then :) So I've been reading around (it seems the Incantatrix is a horse that has been molested so badly that is near death by now). It seems that keeping one's familar is actually a very good idea with Incantatrix, as this allows you extra spellcasting per turn, and more persistend buffs. But I do want that Abrupt Jaunt goodie. So, some people have suggested to go with Obtain Familiar. I'm OK with that, so long a si get all the important feats. Applying for Archmage requires Skil Focus: Spellcraft and i might as well take that on char creation seeing as how the Incantatrix needs every bit of Spellcraft she can get.

So starting with Conjurer 5 / Incantatrix 7, what would be the feats to take? He will allow regional feats as well (all 3.5 books allowed, DM not probably though)

I will post my sheet here for any one who would want to help. Thanks again!

Endarire
2010-06-11, 02:30 AM
Incantatrix3 (Player's Guide to Faerun). The rest matters much less.

Also, snuggle up with Treantmonk (http://community.wizards.com/forumhandler?t=956548)!

Keld Denar
2010-06-11, 02:39 AM
If you change Conjourer5/Incantatrix7 to Conjourer3/MasterSpecialist2/Incantatrix7, you turn your Wizard5 feat into Skill Focus:Spellcraft, and if you ever take those 2 levels of Wizard later, you still get that feat at a later point (when it may be more valuable).

This would bring you to something like Conjourer3/MS2/Incant10/Archmage3/Conjourer+2 or whatever. Thats pretty solid.

PId6
2010-06-11, 02:40 AM
Extend Spell -> Persistent Spell is a necessity for Incantatrix, since half their class features help you Persist better. Easy Metamagic on Persistent Spell is also good just for more overkill meta-reducer.

You should take Master Specialist to get Skill Focus (Spellcraft) and Greater Spell Focus for free.

Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Incantatrix 10/Master Specialist +1/Archmage 4

Myth
2010-06-11, 02:52 AM
Oh this sounds even better! Any advice on which familliar I should take? Rat gives fort saves which is always good, but there are extra familiars in one of the Complete books.

PId6
2010-06-11, 03:51 AM
Trade it for Immediate Magic (PHB2). It basically lets you say "No" for Int times per day.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-06-11, 04:06 AM
Wait, Searing Spell adds +1 damage per die of damage? Since when?

Also, I'll just point out that Metamagic Effect works on a stored Ocular spell, meaning those orbs of doom take 4th level slots.

And if you can swing it, one of the Dragon mags has a moth familiar, +3 to spellcraft. Also try to swing a custom item of +spellcraft. Max your spellcraft so hard it hurts, and you will destroy all that is sacred.

Low(ish) level personal range spells that you may consider persisting, should you go that route:
Shield
Arcane Sight
Fly, Swift
Greater Invisibility (assuming You = Personal)
Greater Blink
Ray Deflection
Alter Self

Myth
2010-06-11, 05:33 AM
Trade it for Immediate Magic (PHB2). It basically lets you say "No" for Int times per day.If you read the thread you'll see me saying I'll get Abrupt Jaunt AND get Obtain Familiar. Problem is whether or not it's worth it, and if it is, which Familiar should i get. Dragon Magazin won't be allowed, and i shouldn't push it anyway :)

PId6
2010-06-11, 05:53 AM
If you read the thread you'll see me saying I'll get Abrupt Jaunt AND get Obtain Familiar. Problem is whether or not it's worth it, and if it is, which Familiar should i get. Dragon Magazin won't be allowed, and i shouldn't push it anyway :)
If Dragon's not allowed, most regular familiars aren't really worth it. Improved Familiars might be, but that's two feats down. I'd say skip it.

Myth
2010-06-11, 06:06 AM
Skip it yes but what about Incantatrix applying metamagic to her familliar's spells? And see this:


Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability: this little gem makes your familiar useful. Give it the ability to cast (CL/3) spells of up to (CL/3) level: this is great because it acts independently, which means more spells per round. If you cast a Quickened Spell and a regular spell, and so does it, that's four spells that round. That's enough spells to end an equal-CR fight, sometimes. Certainly enough to buff up fast.

Wings of Peace
2010-06-11, 06:29 AM
The question: Would you like to spend a feat on a familiar or would you like to spend a feat to qualify for Primal Scholar and have a limitless pool of spells each day with the dip of a single level?

Keld Denar
2010-06-11, 08:40 AM
Wait, Searing Spell adds +1 damage per die of damage? Since when?


My bad, I'm confusing that and Firey Spell, which does that. I thought that Searing did both. Ooopse.

Myth
2010-06-12, 10:48 AM
Oh crud I started doing my char sheet and came to a dilemma. Since I'm going for the previously suggseted Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 2 / Incantatrix x I have to ban 2 schools for being a Conjurer and another one upon entering Incantatrix at level 6 :( What to ban is the question? I think I'll go with Evocation and Enchantment for lvl 1, and then (sigh) Illusion at lvl 6. Suggestions? And keeping my Necro spells obtained before Incantatrix 1 (if i ban Necromancy but still want to have Eneveration) is against RAW and i'm not going to push it with the DM.

PId6
2010-06-12, 11:10 AM
I'd go with Illusion. The greatest loss come from Greater Shadow Evocation (and all hopes of Contingency), and a few defensive spells that are beaten by True Seeing. You're better off keeping Necromancy's debuffs and Abjuration's dispels. You can dump Abjuration if someone else has dispels covered, but I'd still keep it for spells like Superior Resistance.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-12, 11:15 AM
The usual choices are Abjuration, Illusion, or Necromancy. Abjuration is absolutely necessary for the party to have - but a Cleric can handle it about as well as a Wizard, so if there's a Cleric, you may be able to ban that. Failing that, it comes down to Illusion or Necromancy. Illusion has a ton of powerful defensive spells (Mirror Image, Blur, Displacement, etc), plus with Evocation banned it's your only way to get Contingency. Necromancy has a ton of rather powerful debuffs (Enervation most notably), but ultimately between Conjuration and Transmutation, you do have debuffing pretty well covered...

Swiftest
2010-06-12, 11:43 AM
You should ban Necromancy in my opinion. Illusion is just too good with Shadow Evocation (contingency is basically a must-have for any wizard that wants to fight other optimized casters and live) and Simulacrum is stupid good. You don't want to go without those. It's better to lose (sigh) Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion, Enervation, etc, than to lose your ability to cast Contingency ever. It's unfortunate to have to make such a trade, but make it and don't look back, you'll be far sorrier if you choose the other path. This is without even taking into consideration spells like Mirror Image (one of the best defensive spells there is at low levels) and the straight up invisibility/non-offensive-spellcasting that can be a wizard's bread and butter when things get rough until truesight starts being ubiquitous.

It should be noted that Craft Contingent Spell *is* a viable option but will cost you time and XP -- resources that you don't usually have in high supply in D&D.

Myth
2010-06-12, 05:47 PM
Craft Contingent Spell will work for me. I can live without Mirror Image since we are starting at lvl 12 and are to be fighting high level fiends and demons (who most of the times have True Sight or similar spells). Plus i can get a Ring of Invisibility.

Blur and save-or-dies are nice but not necessary, mass Enervation is what I am going for with chain spell, arcane thesis, twin ray etc. Plus Finger of Death is a great follow up after a buffed level drain spell.

And no way am i giving up Ray of Dragon Rape. Here is my level advancement (i like making those to make sure I don't miss anything):

1: Conjurer

HP: 6 (4+2)

Saves: Fort: +0, Ref: +0, Will: +2
BAB: +0

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 4, Knowledge (Arcana) +4, Knowledge (The planes) +4, Knowledge (Religion) +4, Knowledge (Nature) +4, Spelllcraft + 4

Gain:
Scribe Scroll
Wizard spellcasting
Summon Familliar
7 first level spells

Trade:
Banning Evocation (Conjurer)
Banning Enchantment (Conjurer)
Summon Familliar for Abrupt Jaunt (PHBII)
Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative (UA)
Noncombatant flaw (UA) for extra feat
Vulnerable flaw (UA) for extra feat

Feats: Improved Initiative (free), Extend Spell (lvl 1), Spell Focus: Conjuration (flaw), Empower Spell (flaw)

__________________________________________________ ___________

2: Conjurer

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +0, Ref: +0, Will: +3
BAB: +0

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 5, Knowledge (Arcana) +5, Knowledge (The planes) +5, Knowledge (Religion) +5, Knowledge (Nature) + 5, Spelllcraft + 5

Gain:
2 first level spells
__________________________________________________ ___________

3: Conjurer

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +3
BAB: +1

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 6, Knowledge (Arcana) +6, Knowledge (The planes) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Knowledge (Nature) + 6, Spelllcraft + 6

Gain:
2 second level spells

Feats: Repeat Spell (CAr) (lvl 3)

__________________________________________________ ___________

4: Master Specialist (Conjuration) (CM)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +5
BAB: +1

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 7, Knowledge (Arcana) +7, Knowledge (The planes) +7, Knowledge (Religion) +7, Knowledge (Nature) + 7, Spelllcraft + 7

Gain:
2 second level spells
Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
+ 1 Int

Feats: Skill Focus (Spellcraft) (free)

__________________________________________________ ___________

5: Master Specialist (Conjuration) (CM)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +6
BAB: + 2

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 8, Knowledge (Arcana) +8, Knowledge (The planes) +8, Knowledge (Religion) +8, Knowledge (Nature) + 8, Spelllcraft + 8

Gain:
2 third level spells
1 third level Conjuration spell
Expanded Spellbook

Feats: Iron Will (Otyugh's Hole - CS)

__________________________________________________ ___________

6: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +8
BAB: + 2

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 9, Knowledge (Arcana) +9, Knowledge (The planes) +9, Spelllcraft + 9, Craft: Drawing +1, Heal +1

Gain:
2 third level spells
1 third level Conjuration spell
Bonus metamagic feat, Focused study

Trade:
Banning Illusion (Focused study)

Feats:
Arcane Thesis: Enervation (lvl 6)
Quicken Spell (Incantatrix bonus)

__________________________________________________ ___________

7: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +9
BAB: + 3

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 10, Knowledge (Arcana) +10, Knowledge (The planes) +10, Spelllcraft + 10, Craft: Drawing +2, Heal +2

Gain:
2 fourth level spells
1 fourth level Conjuration spell
Cooperative metamagic

__________________________________________________ ___________

8: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +9
BAB: + 3

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 11, Knowledge (Arcana) +11, Knowledge (The planes) +11, Spelllcraft + 11, Craft: Drawing +3, Heal +3, Balance (CC) + 0.5

Gain:
2 fourth level spells
1 fourth level Conjuration spell
Metamagic effect
Int + 1

__________________________________________________ ___________

9: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +10
BAB: + 4

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 12, Knowledge (Arcana) +12, Knowledge (The planes) +12, Spelllcraft + 12, Craft: Drawing +4, Heal +4, Balance (CC) + 1

Gain:
2 fifth level spells
1 fifth level Conjuration spell
Bonus metamatic feat

Feats:
Split Ray (CAr) (lvl 9)
Persistent Spell (CAr) (Incantatrix bonus)

__________________________________________________ ___________

10: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +10
BAB: + 4

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 13, Knowledge (Arcana) +13, Knowledge (The planes) +13, Spelllcraft + 13, Craft: Drawing +5, Heal +5, Balance (CC) + 1.5

Gain:
2 fifth level spells
1 fifth level Conjuration spell
Metamatic spell trigger

__________________________________________________ ___________

11: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +3, Ref: +3, Will: +11
BAB: + 5

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 14, Knowledge (Arcana) +14, Knowledge (The planes) +14, Spelllcraft + 14, Craft: Drawing +6, Heal +6, Balance (CC) + 2

Gain:
2 sixth level spells
1 sixth level Conjuration spell
Sieze concentration

__________________________________________________ ___________

12: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +3, Ref: +3, Will: +11
BAB: + 5

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 15, Knowledge (Arcana) +15, Knowledge (The planes) +15, Spelllcraft + 15, Craft: Drawing +7, Heal +7, Balance (CC) + 2.5

Gain:
2 sixth level spells
1 sixth level Conjuration spell
Bonus metamagic feat
Instant metamagic 1/day
Int +1

Feats:
Chain Spell (CAr) (lvl 12)
Craft Contingent Spell (Incantatrix bonus)

Fouredged Sword
2010-06-12, 06:14 PM
Take any ray spell, or magic missile. I like to work with acid splash. Now take the Fell Drain metamagic feat. Apply easy metamagic to Fell Drain. Apply arcane thesis to acid splash. Now your level 1 acid splash deals a negative level when it hits for free. It deals 2 as a level 1 spell, 3 as a 2nd, 4 as a 3rd, and so on.

If you use magic missile there is no rolling anywhere, don't have shield? Take a negative level. Foes close together, one for each! This almost makes magic missile mage worth it. Anywho this gets better with more metamagic reducers. You eventualy can get scid splash to be the equivelent of an enveneration as a level 0 spell.

This gets nasty fast. Foes lose BAB and spellcasting fast. One hit will likely remove the top teir of any caster's spells entierly.

To make things worse, be evil and be an elan. Now you take improved unarmed strike, Weapon focus (unarmed strike), and I think Alertness and now you take one level of souleater. You now qualify for three feats. Look in the Book of bad latin. One gives you temp Hp when you cause a negative level. One gives you basicly a reverse negative level each time you cause one, as an untyped bonus, lasting an hour! The last give you the ability to cast the spells you drain from foes with negative levels.

Myth
2010-06-12, 06:39 PM
Great but no DM stuff is allowed, so no Easy Metamagic or the likes. Plus this is too far into the world of extreme cheese for me to go, and i hate Elans to boot :)

AstralFire
2010-06-12, 06:48 PM
Great but no DM stuff is allowed, so no Easy Metamagic or the likes. Plus this is too far into the world of extreme cheese for me to go, and i hate Elans to boot :)


:elan: :elan: :elan: :elan: :elan: :elan: :elan: :elan: :elan:
But we love you!

DragoonWraith
2010-06-12, 06:49 PM
Great but no DM stuff is allowed, so no Easy Metamagic or the likes.
Practical Metamagic is in Races of the Dragon. Requires the Dragonblooded subtype, but lots of races can get that pretty trivially by taking the variants in Dragon Magic.

PId6
2010-06-12, 06:52 PM
Practical Metamagic is in Races of the Dragon. Requires the Dragonblooded subtype, but lots of races can get that pretty trivially by taking the variants in Dragon Magic.
It also requires spontaneous casting, which, you know, is a problem for wizards that didn't take their 5th level and pick Spontaneous Divination.

EvilJoe15
2010-06-12, 07:03 PM
Dip Mindbender 1 at level 6 and take mindsight(Someone sneaking up on me? I don't think so), then later(Level 12) dip Warblade 1 and get Iron Heart Surge(Oh no! Anitmagic! IRON HEART SURGE ACTIVATE!!! What antimagic?)

I always dip Mindbender, and Warblade.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-12, 07:05 PM
It also requires spontaneous casting, which, you know, is a problem for wizards that didn't take their 5th level and pick Spontaneous Divination.
Does it really? Oh, well nevermind then.

PId6
2010-06-12, 07:14 PM
Does it really? Oh, well nevermind then.
Sad thing is that it doesn't actually affect anything. Wizards can easily get around it via Spontaneous Divination. Clerics/Druids get around it by virtue of being Clerics/Druids. I guess it might be a problem for Archivists... as a feat tax...


Dip Mindbender 1 at level 6 and take mindsight(Someone sneaking up on me? I don't think so), then later(Level 12) dip Warblade 1 and get Iron Heart Surge(Oh no! Anitmagic! IRON HEART SURGE ACTIVATE!!! What antimagic?)

I always dip Mindbender, and Warblade.
I'd rather spend two feats for Iron Heart Surge than lose a caster level. Or, just use the tin foil hat trick.

EvilJoe15
2010-06-12, 07:26 PM
Those two feats are better used to get Infinity Spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153510), and the tin foil hat isn't nearly as satisfying.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-12, 07:49 PM
1 Spellcasting level >> 2 Feats.

Swiftest
2010-06-13, 06:14 AM
1: Conjurer

HP: 6 (4+2)

Saves: Fort: +0, Ref: +0, Will: +2
BAB: +0

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 4, Knowledge (Arcana) +4, Knowledge (The planes) +4, Knowledge (Religion) +4, Decipher Script +4, Spelllcraft + 4

Gain:
Scribe Scroll, Wizard spellcasting

Trade:
Banning Evocation (Conjurer)
Banning Enchantment (Conjurer)
Summon Familliar for Abrupt Jaunt (PHBII)
Noncombatant flaw (UA) for extra feat
Vulnerable flaw (UA) for extra feat

Feats: Scribe Scroll (free), Extend Spell (lvl 1), Spell Focus: Conjuration (flaw), Empower Spell (flaw)

__________________________________________________ ___________

2: Conjurer

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +0, Ref: +0, Will: +3
BAB: +0

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 5, Knowledge (Arcana) +5, Knowledge (The planes) +5, Knowledge (Religion) +5, Decipher Script + 5, Spelllcraft + 5

__________________________________________________ ___________

3: Conjurer

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +3
BAB: +1

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 6, Knowledge (Arcana) +6, Knowledge (The planes) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Decipher Script + 6, Spelllcraft + 6

Feats: Repeat Spell (CAr) (lvl 3)

__________________________________________________ ___________

4: Master Specialist (Conjuration) (CM)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +5
BAB: +1

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 7, Knowledge (Arcana) +7, Knowledge (The planes) +7, Knowledge (Religion) +7, Decipher Script + 7, Spelllcraft + 7

Gain:
Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
+ 1 Int

Feats: Skill Focus (Spellcraft) (free)

__________________________________________________ ___________

5: Master Specialist (Conjuration) (CM)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +6
BAB: + 2

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 8, Knowledge (Arcana) +8, Knowledge (The planes) +8, Knowledge (Religion) +8, Decipher Script + 8, Spelllcraft + 8

Gain:
Expanded Spellbook

Feats: Iron Will (Otyugh's Hole - CS)

__________________________________________________ ___________

6: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +8
BAB: + 2

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 9, Knowledge (Arcana) +9, Knowledge (The planes) +9, Spelllcraft + 9, Craft: Drawing +1, Heal +1

Gain:
Bonus metamagic feat, Focused study

Trade:
Banning Illusion (Focused study)

Feats:
Arcane Thesis: Enervation (lvl 6)
Quicken Spell (Incantatrix bonus)

__________________________________________________ ___________

7: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +9
BAB: + 3

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 10, Knowledge (Arcana) +10, Knowledge (The planes) +10, Spelllcraft + 10, Craft: Drawing +2, Heal +2

Gain:
Cooperative metamagic

__________________________________________________ ___________

8: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +9
BAB: + 3

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 11, Knowledge (Arcana) +11, Knowledge (The planes) +11, Spelllcraft + 11, Craft: Drawing +3, Heal +3

Gain:
Metamagic effect
Int + 1

__________________________________________________ ___________

9: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +10
BAB: + 4

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 12, Knowledge (Arcana) +12, Knowledge (The planes) +12, Spelllcraft + 12, Craft: Drawing +4, Heal +4

Gain:
Bonus metamatic feat

Feats:
Split Ray (CAr) (lvl 9)
Persistent Spell (CAr) (Incantatrix bonus)

__________________________________________________ ___________

10: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +10
BAB: + 4

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 13, Knowledge (Arcana) +13, Knowledge (The planes) +13, Spelllcraft + 13, Craft: Drawing +5, Heal +5

Gain:
Metamatic spell trigger

__________________________________________________ ___________

11: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +2, Ref: +2, Will: +11
BAB: + 5

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 14, Knowledge (Arcana) +14, Knowledge (The planes) +14, Spelllcraft + 14, Craft: Drawing +6, Heal +6

Gain:
Sieze concentration

__________________________________________________ ___________

12: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +2, Ref: +2, Will: +11
BAB: + 5

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 14, Knowledge (Arcana) +14, Knowledge (The planes) +14, Spelllcraft + 14, Craft: Drawing +6, Heal +6

Gain:
Bonus metamagic feat
Instant metamagic 1/day

Feats:
Chain Spell (CAr) (lvl 12)
Craft Contingent Spell (Incantatrix bonus)

I feel like you'd be better doing this is a blaster/disabler of sorts with an orb spell rather than enervation, but to each their own.

Do you think you'll use scribe scroll? If not, I recommend taking the variant wizard from the SRD to get a fighter bonus feat instead of scribe scroll and taking improved initiative. After all, wizards that go first win first.

Secondly have you considered focused specialist (complete mage)? It would require that you ban yet *another* school of magic (super harsh at this point, I know) but you could get another spell per day per level, which is pretty damn good.

Myth
2010-06-13, 07:31 AM
I can't afford to ban 4 schools. Period.

I am already taking a variant for my conjurer where i sawp my familiar with Abrupt Jaunt. I thought it would not be possible to take two variants at the same time (Imp. Init. is nice though)

I'm actually sort of stumped now, because starting gold is max + 500, which means 88,500 for CLV L12 I think I should get a Blessed Book to cut down on scribing costs, but damn do i really need to pay full scroll price for each extra spell in want in my book? This is absurd :smallannoyed:

dextercorvia
2010-06-13, 08:11 AM
You ought to be able to do this:

Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll

A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.

If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. She cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until she gains another rank in Spellcraft. A spell that was being copied from a scroll does not vanish from the scroll.

In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level × 50 gp.

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-13, 08:28 AM
I can't afford to ban 4 schools. Period.

I am already taking a variant for my conjurer where i sawp my familiar with Abrupt Jaunt. I thought it would not be possible to take two variants at the same time (Imp. Init. is nice though)

I'm actually sort of stumped now, because starting gold is max + 500, which means 88,500 for CLV L12 I think I should get a Blessed Book to cut down on scribing costs, but damn do i really need to pay full scroll price for each extra spell in want in my book? This is absurd :smallannoyed:

Isn't the cost to copy from a friendly wizard something like 50gp per spell level?

Alternatively, take Leadership and get a Wizard cohort. Crib from him.

Doc Roc
2010-06-13, 08:54 AM
Isn't the cost to copy from a friendly wizard something like 50gp per spell level?

Alternatively, take Leadership and get a Wizard cohort. Crib from him.

50gp*SL is correct. Recommend Blessed Book or the spellshard from ECS, Aureon's, I believe. It's just a BBB cut in half. Empowered spellshard may be worth snagging as well. My personal pick is Heward's Bedroll.

Myth
2010-06-13, 09:06 AM
Great! Thanks so much. Here is a list of my magic items, might need to cut something back in order to get all the necessary spells for a lvl 12 caster:

Headband of Intellect + 6 36,000 gp.
Amulet of Health + 4 16,000 gp.
Cloak of Resistance + 3 9,000 gp.
Ring of Feather Falling 2,200 gp.
Heward's handy haversack 5 lb. 2000 gp.
Heward's Fortifying Bedroll 2 lb. 3000 gp. (CM)
Wand of Benign Transposition 1 lb. 750 gp. (SC)
Wand of Protection from Evil 1 lb. 750 gp.
Wand of True Casting 1 lb. 750 gp. (CM)
Rod of Metamagic Silent 1 lb. 3000 gp.
Blessed Book 1 lb. 12,500 gp.

Entry for Otyugh's Hole: 3000 gp.

Keld Denar
2010-06-13, 11:39 AM
No Circlet of Rapid Casting? Its 15,000g in the MIC, and using the rules in the MIC for adding bonuses, you can upgrade your Circlet with +Int for only the price of the +Int.

Circlet is amazing. 3 extra quickened 1st or 2nd level spells per day, it really makes those slots worth while.

Myth
2010-06-13, 01:02 PM
Right but what should i give up to squeeze in the 88,500 gold we start with? Mind you I still haven't purchased the spells.

BTW the entry for Specialist says i get 1 extra spell from my school per level, does that include 0 level spells as well?

Os1ris09
2010-06-13, 01:53 PM
Headband of Intellect + 6 36,000 gp.
Amulet of Health + 4 16,000 gp.
Cloak of Resistance + 3 9,000 gp.
Ring of Feather Falling 2,200 gp.
Heward's handy haversack 5 lb. 2000 gp.
Heward's Fortifying Bedroll 2 lb. 3000 gp. (CM)
Wand of Benign Transposition 1 lb. 750 gp. (SC)
Wand of Protection from Evil 1 lb. 750 gp.
Wand of True Casting 1 lb. 750 gp. (CM)
Rod of Metamagic Silent 1 lb. 3000 gp.
Blessed Book 1 lb. 12,500 gp.

Entry for Otyugh's Hole: 3000 gp.

Honestly, I like the MIC rules but MY DM won't allow them. Check with your DM first and see if he allows the enhancing rules in the back of the MIC that lets you add + INT to any item slot that qualifies. I agree with Keld Denar about the Circlet of Rapid Casting. Can you say web + acid/solid Fog = GG to those creatures..... You use the Circlet to Cast your quickened Web Spell without having the increase in Spell Level AND THEN you hit them with Acid/Solid Fog to further impede them AND maybe do Damage. :smallbiggrin:

PId6
2010-06-13, 04:02 PM
I am already taking a variant for my conjurer where i sawp my familiar with Abrupt Jaunt. I thought it would not be possible to take two variants at the same time (Imp. Init. is nice though)
They're not variants, they're Alternate Class Features. You can use as many ACFs as you want as long as you trade away different things for each of them. In this case, you trade familiar for Abrupt Jaunt, and Scribe Scroll of Improved Initiative. No conflict there.

Endarire
2010-06-13, 04:23 PM
Ban Enchantment/Necromancy right off and Evocation at level 6. Since you can write spells into your spellbook from the school you ban at level 6 ('Evocation'), the rules are vague on what happens once you 'forbid' it. Ask your DM.

The spell secret page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretpage.htm) changes the text "to show even another spell." Check with your DM whether each casting gets you a free spell. If so, say you cast this a buncha times at L5 to get all your needed spells.

Os1ris09
2010-06-13, 05:23 PM
I also just remember another tactic with that Rapid Casting Circlet...

Quicken True Strike + Split Chained Ray of Enervation OR Ray of Fatigue..... Basically 2d4 negative lvls OR exhaustion to all within 30 of eachother.

I would say HELL YEAH to that combo + the one previously mentioned.

First round of combat: Quickened Web + Solid Fog (hopefully they fail save and become flatfooted and lose DEX bonus to AC)

Second Round: Quickened True Strike + Chained Split Ray of Enervation or Ray of Exhaustion.

Good game sir.... :smallbiggrin:

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-06-13, 05:31 PM
Whether or not one can apply Chain Spell to a ray is a matter of some contention.

Os1ris09
2010-06-13, 06:24 PM
Whether or not one can apply Chain Spell to a ray is a matter of some contention.

Personally I don't see why not since an Eldritch Blast is a touch attack invocation that can be chained to many targets due to another invocation that has the same effect. Pretty sure the pro Optimizers can bring forth a better argument than the one I just presented. :smalltongue:

dextercorvia
2010-06-13, 09:50 PM
It depends on the way you read spell with a single target vs. targetted spell.

Os1ris09
2010-06-14, 05:02 AM
It depends on the way you read spell with a single target vs. targetted spell.

Explain further.... Because I don't want to assume what you mean.

Assume = Ass (out of) u (and) me

Myth
2010-06-14, 05:58 AM
1: Conjurer

HP: 6 (4+2)

Saves: Fort: +0, Ref: +0, Will: +2
BAB: +0

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 4, Knowledge (Arcana) +4, Knowledge (The planes) +4, Knowledge (Religion) +4, Knowledge (Nature) +4, Spelllcraft + 4

Gain:
Scribe Scroll
Wizard spellcasting
Summon Familliar
7 first level spells

Trade:
Banning Evocation (Conjurer)
Banning Enchantment (Conjurer)
Summon Familliar for Abrupt Jaunt (PHBII)
Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative (UA)
Noncombatant flaw (UA) for extra feat
Vulnerable flaw (UA) for extra feat

Feats: Improved Initiative (free), Extend Spell (lvl 1), Spell Focus: Conjuration (flaw), Empower Spell (flaw)

__________________________________________________ ___________

2: Conjurer

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +0, Ref: +0, Will: +3
BAB: +0

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 5, Knowledge (Arcana) +5, Knowledge (The planes) +5, Knowledge (Religion) +5, Knowledge (Nature) + 5, Spelllcraft + 5

Gain:
2 first level spells
__________________________________________________ ___________

3: Conjurer

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +3
BAB: +1

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 6, Knowledge (Arcana) +6, Knowledge (The planes) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Knowledge (Nature) + 6, Spelllcraft + 6

Gain:
2 second level spells

Feats: Repeat Spell (CAr) (lvl 3)

__________________________________________________ ___________

4: Master Specialist (Conjuration) (CM)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +5
BAB: +1

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 7, Knowledge (Arcana) +7, Knowledge (The planes) +7, Knowledge (Religion) +7, Knowledge (Nature) + 7, Spelllcraft + 7

Gain:
2 second level spells
Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
+ 1 Int

Feats: Skill Focus (Spellcraft) (free)

__________________________________________________ ___________

5: Master Specialist (Conjuration) (CM)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +6
BAB: + 2

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 8, Knowledge (Arcana) +8, Knowledge (The planes) +8, Knowledge (Religion) +8, Knowledge (Nature) + 8, Spelllcraft + 8

Gain:
2 third level spells
1 third level Conjuration spell
Expanded Spellbook

Feats: Iron Will (Otyugh's Hole - CS)

__________________________________________________ ___________

6: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +8
BAB: + 2

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 9, Knowledge (Arcana) +9, Knowledge (The planes) +9, Spelllcraft + 9, Craft: Drawing +1, Heal +1

Gain:
2 third level spells
1 third level Conjuration spell
Bonus metamagic feat, Focused study

Trade:
Banning Illusion (Focused study)

Feats:
Arcane Thesis: Enervation (lvl 6)
Quicken Spell (Incantatrix bonus)

__________________________________________________ ___________

7: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +9
BAB: + 3

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 10, Knowledge (Arcana) +10, Knowledge (The planes) +10, Spelllcraft + 10, Craft: Drawing +2, Heal +2

Gain:
2 fourth level spells
1 fourth level Conjuration spell
Cooperative metamagic

__________________________________________________ ___________

8: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +9
BAB: + 3

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 11, Knowledge (Arcana) +11, Knowledge (The planes) +11, Spelllcraft + 11, Craft: Drawing +3, Heal +3, Balance (CC) + 0.5

Gain:
2 fourth level spells
1 fourth level Conjuration spell
Metamagic effect
Int + 1

__________________________________________________ ___________

9: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +10
BAB: + 4

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 12, Knowledge (Arcana) +12, Knowledge (The planes) +12, Spelllcraft + 12, Craft: Drawing +4, Heal +4, Balance (CC) + 1

Gain:
2 fifth level spells
1 fifth level Conjuration spell
Bonus metamatic feat

Feats:
Split Ray (CAr) (lvl 9)
Persistent Spell (CAr) (Incantatrix bonus)

__________________________________________________ ___________

10: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: +10
BAB: + 4

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 13, Knowledge (Arcana) +13, Knowledge (The planes) +13, Spelllcraft + 13, Craft: Drawing +5, Heal +5, Balance (CC) + 1.5

Gain:
2 fifth level spells
1 fifth level Conjuration spell
Metamatic spell trigger

__________________________________________________ ___________

11: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +3, Ref: +3, Will: +11
BAB: + 5

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 14, Knowledge (Arcana) +14, Knowledge (The planes) +14, Spelllcraft + 14, Craft: Drawing +6, Heal +6, Balance (CC) + 2

Gain:
2 sixth level spells
1 sixth level Conjuration spell
Sieze concentration

__________________________________________________ ___________

12: Incantatrix (PG)

HP: 4 (2+2)

Saves: Fort: +3, Ref: +3, Will: +11
BAB: + 5

Skills (2 + Int): Concentration + 15, Knowledge (Arcana) +15, Knowledge (The planes) +15, Spelllcraft + 15, Craft: Drawing +7, Heal +7, Balance (CC) + 2.5

Gain:
2 sixth level spells
1 sixth level Conjuration spell
Bonus metamagic feat
Instant metamagic 1/day
Int +1

Feats:
Chain Spell (CAr) (lvl 12)
Craft Contingent Spell (Incantatrix bonus)
Done, added Imp. Initiative, fixed my saves, shifted some skills around (realized Decipher Script is useless). Now i only have to choose spells and I'll be done. I'll post the whole sheet here for anyone else who wants to follow or improve this build (i'm sure it's quite popular).

Do you guys state which spells you persist at the beginning of the day? Do you figure the stats in your sheet?

Also, where can i find these Spellcraft boosting items i keep reading about?

PId6
2010-06-14, 06:02 AM
Do you guys state which spells you persist at the beginning of the day? Do you figure the stats in your sheet?
You should probably state your Persisted spells and calculate them separately, since Dispels are quite possible. You should also get a Ring of Enduring Arcana (CM), again because Dispels are quite possible.

Os1ris09
2010-06-14, 02:21 PM
You should probably state your Persisted spells and calculate them separately, since Dispels are quite possible. You should also get a Ring of Enduring Arcana (CM), again because Dispels are quite possible.

i second the ring. Also I am gonna try pitching that Circlet one more time.

For how to get it reduce your INT to +4 and add it to the 15,000gp Circlet for a total of 31,000. You now have an extra 4,000gp to buy a metamagic rod of extend lesser..... :smallbiggrin:

dextercorvia
2010-06-14, 03:09 PM
Explain further.... Because I don't want to assume what you mean.

Assume = Ass (out of) u (and) me

Many spells (including rays) state that there is a target in the description, even though they don't have a target line. Other spells have a line which says Target: One creature, or the like.


Acid Splash (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidSplash.htm) is an example of the first type, while Daze (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/daze.htm) is an example of the second. There is no doubt that Chain Spell (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Chain_Spell) can be used on Daze, but it is less clear if there are two meanings for target (one game defined, and the other intuitive) which is meant in Chain Spell. If Chain Spell specified that it needs to be a targeted spell (have a target line), then only spells like Daze would work. Since it doesn't, we are left wondering whether we can Chain Acid Splash. I haven't seen a ruling on this. Most TO folks seem to assume it works, but I believe the RAI behind the wording of Chain Spell is Target: spells only. It's unclear though, and I wouldn't try to make a RAW argument for or against.

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-14, 03:15 PM
Spells without a "Target" line are not targeted spells.

dextercorvia
2010-06-14, 03:20 PM
Spells without a "Target" line are not targeted spells.



If Chain Spell specified that it needs to be a targeted spell (have a target line),...


I didn't say they were. Some spells with out a Target line specify a single target though. The question is what specifically Chain Spell applies to.

Keld Denar
2010-06-14, 03:39 PM
I did some investigation into chaining rays here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112408) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112907), and the results were pretty mixed. There really doesn't seem to be a whole lot of support. So...when in doubt, ask your DM.

Another good Circlet combo is Ray of Clumsiness + Freezing Fog. FF has a Ref save like a heightened Grease, and if you can't get up, you can't move slowly through the fog. Ray of Clumsiness penalizes your Ref save, keeping you down for the count. Then you just let the 1d6 cold damage per round tick away until everyone inside is dead.

Yet another combo involves the 2nd level CMage spell Escalating Enfeeblement. It states that it functions exactly like Ray of Enfeeblement, unless the target is already enfeebled or fatigued, then its 1d10+ 1/2 CL. Open with Ray of Exhaustion (or Waves of Fatigue/Exhaustion) and then Escalating Enfeeblement (empowered with a Lesser Rod) for maximal Str drainage. Big bad Giant McPowerAttacky won't look to hot when you drop him down to 1 Str in one round. ZzZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZzzappppp!

Myth
2010-06-15, 03:29 AM
i second the ring. Also I am gonna try pitching that Circlet one more time.

For how to get it reduce your INT to +4 and add it to the 15,000gp Circlet for a total of 31,000. You now have an extra 4,000gp to buy a metamagic rod of extend lesser..... SOLD! :)


Yet another combo involves the 2nd level CMage spell Escalating Enfeeblement. It states that it functions exactly like Ray of Enfeeblement, unless the target is already enfeebled or fatigued, then its 1d10+ 1/2 CL. Open with Ray of Exhaustion (or Waves of Fatigue/Exhaustion) and then Escalating Enfeeblement (empowered with a Lesser Rod) for maximal Str drainage. Big bad Giant McPowerAttacky won't look to hot when you drop him down to 1 Str in one round. ZzZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZzzappppp! Nice! Sure glad i read this before i chose my spells :P

Os1ris09
2010-06-15, 01:19 PM
SOLD! :)

Nice! Sure glad i read this before i chose my spells :P

Finally. GITP succeeds at selling items. Maybe we should all become marketers for dungeons and dragons.... ROFL

@ Myth: Make sure that MiC rules are allowed first. THEN you should do the circlet ok.