PDA

View Full Version : Optimize my knight



dob
2010-06-10, 11:39 AM
I'm working on a knight build, and would love your thoughts on improving it. I'm going more for battlefield control than damage, obviously.

Strongheart Halfling

32 point buy:
STR 13
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 8
CHA 16

1 Knight 1 combat reflexes, stand still { handle 4+3=7, ride 4+1=5, intimidate 1+3=4 }
2 Knight 2 mounted combat { handle 5+3=8, ride 5+1+2=8, intimidate 2+3=5 }
3 Knight 3 combat expertise { ride 6+1+2=9, intimidate 3+3=6 }
4 Knight 4 [DEX 14] { ride 7+2+2=11, intimidate 4+3=7 }
5 Paladin 1 { ride 8+2+2=12, spot(cc) 1-1=0 }
6 Paladin 2 improved trip { ride 9+2+2=13, listen(cc) 1-1=0 }
7 Paladin 3 <wary swordknight> { ride 10+2+2=14, listen 2-1=1, spot 2-1=1, intimidate(cc) 5+3=8 }
8 Knight 5 [STR 14] ride-by attack { ride 11+2+2=15, intimidate 6+3=9, handle 6+3=9 }
9 Paladin 4 <wary swordknight> mounted archery [STR 14] { ride 12+2+2=16, listen 3-1=2, spot 3-1=2, intimidate(cc) 7+3=10 }
10 Paladin 5 { ride 13+2+2=17, spellcraft(cc) 1+1=2 }
11 Halfling Outrider 1 alertness { ride 14+2+2+1=19, intimidate(cc) 8+3=11, spellcraft(cc) 2+1=3 }
12 Halfling Outrider 2 [CHA 17] mage slayer { ride 15+2+2+2=21, ... }
13 Halfling Outrider 3 { ride 16+2+2+3=23, intimidate(cc) 9+3=12, ... }
14 Halfling Outrider 4 { ride 17+2+2+4=25, ... }
15 Halfling Outrider 5 blind-fight { ride 18+2+2+5=27, intimidate(cc) 10+3=13 }
16 Halfling Outrider 6 [CHA 18] { ride 19+2+2+6=29, ... }
17 Halfling Outrider 7 { ride 20+2+2+7=31, intimidate(cc) 11+4=15, ... }
18 Halfling Outrider 8 pierce magical concealment { ride 21+2+2+8=33, ... }
19 Halfling Outrider 9 { ride 22+2+2+9=35, intimidate(cc) 15+4=19 }
20 Halfling Outrider 10 [INT 14] { ride 23+2+2+10=37, ... }

My questions include:

Is it worth getting both stand still and combat expertise/improved trip? If I don't go for the latter, I can keep INT at 8, bump up my CON and DEX out of the gate. If I don't go for the former, I can dump on STR a bit. I'm vaguely considering getting EWP: spiked chain instead of stand-still, though that won't start being useful until levels 6-7. Assuming I don't go that route, I was figuring lances and/or glaives to be my weapons of choice, and try demoralizing enemies when I can't usefully attack.

That said, is there any point in bumping intimidate since it's cross-class for much of the build? If not, what might be useful to invest in? Handle animal seems cool, but I get my paladin mount at level 10. Should I keep investing in ride after my score reaches 24 or thereabouts?

We're starting at level 3, so I'm looking to optimize for ECL 3-12 probably. For starting magic items, I'm going to pick up a healing belt and maybe an amber amulet of vermin, either giant bee for a cheap flying mount, or maybe a giant stag beetle to actually hit the things chasing me around the battlefield. Any other ideas?

G3N3R3L GHOST
2010-06-10, 11:46 AM
It seems like you are leaning towards ranged combat to a certain extent with mounted archery? Or is that just for versatility purposes. If you are leaning towards ranged maybe picking up ranged trip would be fitting for you. There is also a prestige in the dragon magazines called bowman charger. Which gets bonuses for both melee and ranged as well as upgrading their special mount. Might be worth checking out for at least a level or two if it fits your idea.

dob
2010-06-10, 11:53 AM
I was really only picking up mounted archery is because it's a prerequisite for halfling outrider. That said, ranged trip is an interesting idea; were you thinking of using bolas or something else?

Person_Man
2010-06-10, 12:51 PM
Knight Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109429)

Commentary:

Your chosen writing format and lack of capitalization is very difficult to read.
Your Test of Mettle Save DC is going to suck. Knights in general should have a debuff combo, and Knights who multi-class or PrC absolutely need one.
If you want a mount, you can get one via feats or magic items. See the Handbook above for details.
It is not worth it to take both Stand Still and Improved Trip. Pick one or the other. Stand Still is more efficient and has a higher chance of success. Combat Exp -> Improved Trip -> Knock-Down deals damage and makes your enemy Prone instead of just stopping them.

dob
2010-06-10, 01:50 PM
Thanks, Person Man, I've been over your Knight's Guide several times.

Perhaps straight Knight would be better:

STR 15
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 16

Knight 1 Combat Reflexes, Stand Still
Knight 2 Mounted Combat
Knight 3 Wild Cohort
Knight 4 [STR 16]
Knight 5 Ride-by Attack
Knight 6 Power Attack
Knight 7
Knight 8 [CHA 17]
Knight 9 Mage Slayer
Knight 10 Spirited Charge
Knight 11
Knight 12 [CHA 18] Blind-Fight
Knight 13
Knight 14
Knight 15 Pierce Magical Concealment
Knight 16 [CHA 19]
Knight 17
Knight 18 Robillar's Gambit
Knight 19
Knight 20 [CHA 20]

Myth
2010-06-10, 02:45 PM
I opted to go 20 Knight in a game - a nobleborn pup with heavy prejudice vs Drow. I figured that a d12HD, heavy armour, full BAB class with battlefield control, save re rolls etc. will be nice. That was about the time i first stubmled upon this forum, and someone said that the PHBII classes were inferior to even vanilla ones, and that a Cleric will "outknight" a Knight fairly easily.

Still, full progression is nice, or if you want to you can get levels in Cavalier (although you must work out the mechanics behind a mount that does not get fried to a crisp the minute fireballs start exploding). As ever, levels in Crusader from TOB will work out, exotic weapon master or Kensai can be squeezed in as well. I'm not good enough a player to give specific number crunching advice, but I hope this helps.

Person_Man
2010-06-10, 03:47 PM
Looks good to me. Other tidbits:

Note that you also get a bonus feat at level 15, in addition to the feat gained from levels.
If your DM allows them, you should also take Flaws.
Int 8 means you'll only get 1 Skill point per level. Maxing out Ride is a requirement. Maxing out Intimidate is handy for roleplaying and certain Fear combos, but not strictly necessary. At higher levels you'll want to 12-4ish ranks of UMD, which you'd have to purchase cross class (with high Cha, you should have no trouble using wands around ECL 14ish+), which will give you easy access to Pounce and numerous cheap and effective buffs. And if your DM is studious and follows the animal Trick rules you'll also need ranks in Handle Animal. So you might want to consider an Int of 10-14, though you could skirt by with Int 8 if your DM is nice and houserules retroactive Skill points if you buy an Int boosting magic item.