Relationship Woes and Advice: The Thirteenth Woerier

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Pretty much. I was ranting about how damned oblivious guys apparently are, and how I somehow managed to end up in an awkward situation by actually having a clue, as opposed to wandering through life with my eyes closed.

Haha, fair enough. I just thought the way the last paragraph was phrased was ironic, with regard to earlier comments, I wasn't seriously accusing you of being sexist or anything like that.

[Saphy]

Saphy, can you expand a little bit more on why your parent's don't want you seeing him? Is he prone to violence, acting out, or anything like that? Why were they worried you'd be isolated from your friends? There may be a red flag your parents can see that you can't.

My mom always believed that if you dated, then other people will leave you alone to be a couple, etc. Give the happy people space, I guess. Spend more time with your significant other and not with other friends. The couple would make the others feel awkward, stuff like that.

I think I am partially to blame for my parents' opinion of him. I first met him in 8th grade when I first moved here, and I didn't know him well. I had a party and told my parents I did not want to invite him, because he could be pretty impulsive and crazy off his meds. It's been more than five years now, and he's changed, but my parents still think he's some crazy little boy. Sure, he can still be impulsive, but he's not violent. He just needs more time to take tests or do homework, he's not a psychopath.

[Pheehelm]

I just wish there was a way out of this painful situation that doesn't involve withdrawing myself from my friends.Some part of my brain is yelling "get a new crush and date him!" but I don't know if that's exactly helpful.

How much does your best friend know about your be-crush'd-ness? Can you tell her privately about it, and ask that she tone down any PDA around you? Or alternately, maybe go the half-truth route: tell her you're feeling kinda lonely and it makes you unhappy to see them together when you don't have an SO of your own.


Flirting and cluelessness -- Part of the problem is that a lot of guys misinterpret friendliness as flirting, and a lot of guys know that a lot of guys misinterpret friendliness as flirting, so when they see what may be flirting they think "oh, I'm just being an egotistical male misinterpreting friendliness as flirting" when in reality they're misinterpreting flirting as friendliness misinterpreted as flirting.


Saphy -- Try the line "is there something that would convince you he just needs more time to take tests or do homework, and he's not a psychopath?"

[Superglucose]

Flirting and cluelessness -- Part of the problem is that a lot of guys misinterpret friendliness as flirting, and a lot of guys know that a lot of guys misinterpret friendliness as flirting, so when they see what may be flirting they think "oh, I'm just being an egotistical male misinterpreting friendliness as flirting" when in reality they're misinterpreting flirting as friendliness misinterpreted as flirting.
*raises hand*

I think I do this a lot. Most recent girl I met basically told me I was really sexy and that she was bummed she was married.


I'm unsure if the other two posters were being misogynist or misandrist or both or neither

I actually want to bring this up for a lot of people. Humans are given to theatrics and hyperbole. When a guy is cheated on by his girlfriend and starts raging about how all women are skanks and he hates them and wants to give up on them? No, he's not being misogynistic. He's not being hateful towards you or anyone else. He's pissed off and venting that frustration as best he can. It's the same thing when a girl has her heart broken and goes on about how all men suck and they're only interested in one thing and blah blah blah. I know my friends don't actually mean to tell me that I'm only in it to get in a girl's pants, and I know they don't actually think I suck or that I'm terrible or whatever. It's just them... being emotional. Feeling instead of thinking. It's a coping mechanism, and I know I do it too.

Not to say that Eloi did anything wrong or that anyone here has done anything wrong, I just want to clarify. I want to clarify because I know so many people who've heard their friends rant like this, people who are ordinarily just normal people, and been quick to slap the "misogynist/misandrist" tag on them. That's not fair.

[Another_Poet]

Humans are given to theatrics and hyperbole. When a guy is cheated on by his girlfriend and starts raging about how all women are skanks and he hates them and wants to give up on them? No, he's not being misogynistic.

Yes, he is. Hyperbole would be calling her a troll, saying she is the worst person he has ever met, or making up stories exaggerating her bad qualities. Theatrics would be raising his voice, doing mocking impersonations of her, or pounding the table for emphasis.

When you choose to blame an entire gender for the actions of your ex, you're taking part in the whole idea that gender determines personality. You insult and pigeonhole all the other people of that gender who overhear you, whether you mean to or not, and whether they take offense and speak up or not. It's not only immature, it reinforces the idea that we can judge people by their gender.

I don't think you would make a similar argument for other kinds of stereotypes. If a Caucasian man's dark-skinned friend angered him, and the caucasian started making racist comments and saying all black people are such-and-such, would you say it's okay because humans are given to hyperbole? I doubt it (and I hope not). The same goes for sexist comments when angry at an ex.


He's pissed off and venting that frustration as best he can.

Which is understandable, but there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to vent. It might make the guy feel a lot better to throw bricks through his ex's window, but that is wrong, and him being angry doesn't make it okay. Sexist comments are not physically violent like throwing bricks, but they are still wrong, and anger is not an excuse. Part of growing up is learning how to express anger in acceptable ways. Sexism is becoming less acceptable, thank goodness, and hopefully that trend will continue and never reverse itself.

ap

[Superglucose]

*shrugs* I've had female friends talk for hours about how terrible men are. You know what? I can deal with it. See, I know that's not how they really think, and I can get them to admit it by simply agreeing and saying, "Yeah, I know, I'm like the worst of the bunch!"

So yes, I've been on the receiving end, and I've been ok with it. So in response to your example? Yes. I'd be ok with it. I'm not sure why I have to repeat myself, but here's a little truth: people can say racist things without being themselves racist, just as people can say mean things without themselves being mean.

[Another_Poet]

*shrugs* I've had female friends talk for hours about how terrible men are. You know what? I can deal with it...

So yes, I've been on the receiving end, and I've been ok with it. So in response to your example? Yes. I'd be ok with it.

Whether you're okay with it has little to do with the impact that it has.

According to your profile you are male. Males are the dominant gender in our still-pretty-sexist society, and I would suggest that it's much easier for you to shrug and say "sticks and stones, they don't mean it" than it would be if you were a female being told that all women are lying whores.

The bottom line is that the negative impact of sexist talk has been pretty well studied and linked to domestic violence, pay inequality between the sexes, and a variety of other problems. Whether you're okay with it is not the issue. People saying untrue, derogatory things about women are being misogynistic - both because they are slandering women generally, and because they are doing real harm. "But I was angry" doesn't make it less misogynistic.

[Superglucose]

Whether you're okay with it has little to do with the impact that it has.

According to your profile you are male. Males are the dominant gender in our still-pretty-sexist society, and I would suggest that it's much easier for you to shrug and say "sticks and stones, they don't mean it" than it would be if you were a female being told that all women are lying whores.

The bottom line is that the negative impact of sexist talk has been pretty well studied and linked to domestic violence, pay inequality between the sexes, and a variety of other problems. Whether you're okay with it is not the issue. People saying untrue, derogatory things about women are being misogynistic - both because they are slandering women generally, and because they are doing real harm. "But I was angry" doesn't make it less misogynistic.
That's pretty bad reasoning there. "It's ok for them to say it about you because it doesn't have any effect on you because you're in a dominant position, but it does have a huge effect on the non dominant gender!" If sexist talk is linked to domestic violence and pay inequity, that means that talking about how all men suck is linked to women making less money. That makes sense.

Clean your story up and get back to me. We'll have a talk then.

[Another_Poet]

Actually that's exactly the point. It's a one-way thing. Misandry (anti-male sentiment) is not even considered sexism by researchers who study gender relations and gender politics, because it is not a form of institutionalised oppression against a politically weaker group. Misogyny however is.

Unsurprisingly, misogynistic talk feeds into anti-woman violence and gender inequality, whereas misandrous talk has very little impact on those issues.

That said, I never stated that anti-male talk is okay. It also reinforces gender roles and judges an entire group unfairly. It does not have the severe social consequences of misogynistic talk, but it is still a bad way to express anger at an ex.

ap


Clean your story up and get back to me. We'll have a talk then.

I'm not keen on your tone here. I've tried to keep my side of the discussion respectful, and I'd appreciate the same.

[Quincunx]

No "passive acceptance" for you tonight.


That's pretty bad reasoning there. "It's ok for them to say it about you because it doesn't have any effect on you because you're in a dominant position, but it does have a huge effect on the non dominant gender!"

Incorrect and misleading. Another Poet supplied ". . .but it does have a huge effect on the non dominant gender!", and you yourself appended the insult to your own (dominant) gender, then argued against the entire statement. About the only good to be said of constructing this false premise is that you didn't continue building on it for the rest of the post.


If sexist talk is linked to domestic violence and pay inequity, that means that talking about how all men suck is linked to women making less money. That makes sense.

I can read the sarcasm of "that makes sense"; I'll leave it aside and address your second use of the same tactic. You appended the faulty conclusion about "talking about how all men suck is linked to women making less money" by muddying the distinction between verbal abuser and socially disadvantaged, and tried to use that nonsense to rebut Another Poet's statement. Everything that has been wrong in your post was your contributions to the theory. You have rebutted yourself and only yourself.


Clean your story up and get back to me. We'll have a talk then.

Talking down to the person whose argument is cogent and not emotional is a flame. I have insulted you in return (in my eyes--some people seem to regard this tactic as respectful and desirable) by breaking your quote block down line by line and rebutting it line by line, implying that you are too ignorant to follow a paragraph's worth of rebuttal.

[Superglucose]

That's pretty bad reasoning there. "It's ok for them to say it about you because it doesn't have any effect on you because you're in a dominant position, but it does have a huge effect on the non dominant gender!" If sexist talk is linked to domestic violence and pay inequity, that means that talking about how all men suck is linked to women making less money.


Actually that's exactly the point.


Incorrect and misleading.

So which one of you is right?

[Quincunx]

We both are. Another Poet has made the distinction between which group is doing the foul-mouthing, and hasn't realized that you have not.

[Coidzor]

Talking down to the person whose argument is cogent and not emotional is a flame. I have insulted you in return (in my eyes--some people seem to regard this tactic as respectful and desirable) by breaking your quote block down line by line and rebutting it line by line, implying that you are too ignorant to follow a paragraph's worth of rebuttal.

It seems people do this mainly for their own convenience so that they insure that they don't miss any talking points they would want to address. Though generally most people will keep smaller paragraphs together unless they really want separate rebuttals for whatever reason. generally enough is kept for some context though. Come to think of it, I might be describing something which is less line by liney than what you're talking about/doing. so maybe there's some more than just the two degrees of quot-blocking.


You're right. I've calmed down significantly since my last post, and realize that I may have been too harsh on myself.

I just wish there was a way out of this painful situation that doesn't involve withdrawing myself from my friends.

Making new friends, finding someone other than this one guy to get excited about, making sure you have plans next summer that don't involve spending much/any time back home.

[Another_Poet]

Superglucose and I have moved our discussion over to PMs, which is probably for the better. I am not sure where the line is between talking about sexism and debating real-world politics but the latter is against forum rules and I don't want to see this thread closed on my account.

I do appreciate the advice people have given me so far on my question about dealing with crutches, and I would love to see more answers on the question as well. Thanks everyone!

[J.Gellert]

You're right. I've calmed down significantly since my last post, and realize that I may have been too harsh on myself.

I just wish there was a way out of this painful situation that doesn't involve withdrawing myself from my friends.

I can only imagine how bad that is. Back in high school the girl I really liked dated some guy I knew a little and I still hated his guts. I don't know what I'd feel if he had been my friend. More recently, a closer friend of mine was hitting on a crush I had and I was secretly wishing he'd fail (he did) even though I didn't care all that much about the girl.

It's an ugly situation, but you need to remember it's hard for you. I've always thought it's ok to be a little egoistic as long as noone's getting hurt - because if you are miserable with all of this, who is going to help you?

The simplest thing to do would be to find a new person that interests you. You say your friends get together every summer, and you really shouldn't get "stuck" on a crush for longer than... one summer.

[Serpentine]

ARGH! Hate archiving time so much! Bah humbug. Try again:
That's pretty bad reasoning there. "It's ok for them to say it about you because it doesn't have any effect on you because you're in a dominant position, but it does have a huge effect on the non dominant gender!" If sexist talk is linked to domestic violence and pay inequity, that means that talking about how all men suck is linked to women making less money. That makes sense.Poet wasn't saying "because you're in the dominant position, it's fine to say that", they were saying "because you're in the dominant position, it's understandable that it would have a lesser impact on you". If someone says "all men are thuggish pigs", that would be wrong and sexist, but would not threaten your social position, so you don't react negatively. If someone says "all women are lying whores", that would be wrong and sexist, and my contribute to the threatening of women's social position, so women tend to react negatively.
Read this, because this is important: Your reaction has no impact on the validity of the reaction of others. You have no right to tell anyone that because you responded such-and-such a way, everyone else is wrong to respond otherwise. The world is getting better, but you're still coming from a very different position.

[Reluctance]

Psst. Serp. AP and Glucose moved their discussion to PM to avoid providing political/religious tinder. Feminism is flamebaity for the exact same reasons, so you may want to not nudge the discussion along.

Actually, that's more of an "everybody else after me" request. For the health of the thread, don't take the bait.

[Serpentine]

I saw that (and mentioned it in the first version but couldn't be bothered in the second), but wanted to say it anyway. Also, we've had whole threads basically on feminism before. At least one was quite long and successful. It may have gone down in flames eventually, but I think it just petered out. Out of curiosity, I'm gonna go find it...
edit: Yep, Gender and How Society Treats You made it to the second thread, when it got "far too sexually explicit and political" and was locked. Can't remember what happened and it's been taken now, but I think 51 pages mostly flame-free counts as a success.

[term1nally s1ck]

....People *are* aware that the only comment about women I made there was that women will almost never make the first serious move, right? The rest was complaining about guys, which would be my own sex...and it was fairly tongue-in-cheek, tbh. I'm nearly certain that any guy would pick up on that kind of thing, but wouldn't act on it, leading her to believe that guys just don't see hints like that, letting her use them as a method of hinting stuff to her sister.

[Neko Toast]

Some part of my brain is yelling "get a new crush and date him!" but I don't know if that's exactly helpful.

How much does your best friend know about your be-crush'd-ness? Can you tell her privately about it, and ask that she tone down any PDA around you? Or alternately, maybe go the half-truth route: tell her you're feeling kinda lonely and it makes you unhappy to see them together when you don't have an SO of your own.

I don't think the half-truth plan will work. We already hang out with two other friends who are dating each other. If I suddenly brought this up now that the two of them were dating, it would seem a bit suspicious. Not only that, but they would probably just tell me what you guys are already telling me, which is "get out there and go find someone".

As for telling my friend about it, I'd rather not. It seems selfish, and it has the possibility of hurting her feelings.


Making new friends, finding someone other than this one guy to get excited about, making sure you have plans next summer that don't involve spending much/any time back home.

I would say that I could do this once I went back to college for fall semester, but that's easier said than done. I have three times more friends there than I do at home, but virtually everyone I know there is dating someone. The few guys I had a slight interest in are already in a happy relationship. Guess I'll just have to try meeting more people or something.


It's an ugly situation, but you need to remember it's hard for you. I've always thought it's ok to be a little egoistic as long as noone's getting hurt - because if you are miserable with all of this, who is going to help you?

The simplest thing to do would be to find a new person that interests you. You say your friends get together every summer, and you really shouldn't get "stuck" on a crush for longer than... one summer.

I guess I've been doin' it wrong, then. I can't say that I'm experienced when it comes to these kinds of relationships, seeing as I've never dated anyone before.

I'll try my best to get over him. It's not going to be easy when his gf is around, though.

[Syka]

I wouldn't worry about having a long crush. I crushed on a guy for about 2 years and it only ended when I realized how limitless his jerkishness was. I knew he was a jerk, but it didn't stop the crush for a while. That was fun...having a crush on someone you wouldn't actually date, lol.

But yeah...I don't really have much advice. :| Why do they keep getting back together every summer though, especially if Best Friend is unhappy?

[J.Gellert]

I wouldn't worry about having a long crush. I crushed on a guy for about 2 years and it only ended when I realized how limitless his jerkishness was. I knew he was a jerk, but it didn't stop the crush for a while. That was fun...having a crush on someone you wouldn't actually date, lol.

It's not something to worry about, but consider: you could have been dating someone (and maybe someone great) in those two years!

Crushes are great and it's a nice change of routine, to actually get nervous before asking the other person out. But if they go on forever, they are not as fun anymore... And unless something "magical" happens you end up getting hurt more often than not.

Personal opinion, at least.

[Syka]

I was I think 14-16 or something during the time of the crush. I didn't want to date, anyway. I also met the guy I ended up being with for over three years during the tail end of that crush.

Crush=/=ignoring everyone else. I've definitely multi-tasked crushes before. ;)

[Neko Toast]

I wouldn't worry about having a long crush. I crushed on a guy for about 2 years and it only ended when I realized how limitless his jerkishness was. I knew he was a jerk, but it didn't stop the crush for a while. That was fun...having a crush on someone you wouldn't actually date, lol.

But yeah...I don't really have much advice. :| Why do they keep getting back together every summer though, especially if Best Friend is unhappy?

I really don't know why, and it's not in my place to ask her why she got back together with him again.

God, this isn't working. If I don't say something to them, then I'm going to be miserable for the rest of the summer, but at the same time I can't say anything, because it would likely ruin two of the closest friendships I have. I'm already a bit unstable when it comes to my moods, and I'm afraid that I might do something extreme if one or both of them become seriously upset with me.

[J.Gellert]

I really don't know why, and it's not in my place to ask her why she got back together with him again.

God, this isn't working. If I don't say something to them, then I'm going to be miserable for the rest of the summer, but at the same time I can't say anything, because it would likely ruin two of the closest friendships I have. I'm already a bit unstable when it comes to my moods, and I'm afraid that I might do something extreme if one or both of them get seriously upset with me.

I know a girl who had two of her friends dating - one of her closest girl-friends and a guy (close buddy of mine) that was also her friend and long-time crush (though she hasn't exactly admitted it).

Not long after her friend and her (friend + crush) started dating she made a small scene, saying she didn't want them to date... The next day she was terribly sorry, took back everything, and forgot all about it. Now she doesn't mind at all, or at least that's the impression she gives.

It's not like your case, because these two are not "on and off" but rather in a continuous (and happy) relationship, but I guess it comes down to that.

If you do end up saying something, do you think you will end up wishing you hadn't?

And if you say nothing, will you spend the entire summer wishing you were with other friends instead?

Also, do you have any other friend that you trust enough and can talk to about this, and get another opinion, without them knowing?

Forgetting about this may seem hard, but it really is the easy way out. You keep your friends (at least for now) and you find someone awesome to get involved with and be happy.

Just don't go crazy over it. Once you've dated more people you'll realize it's never worth it, pining over one person. There's dozens of people out there that are "right" for each of us, and thousands that we can at least have a great, fun time with. Finding a new crush is among the easiest things in the world.


Crush=/=ignoring everyone else. I've definitely multi-tasked crushes before. ;)

That's great, actually :D I've multi-tasked casual dating, but never crushes... Unfortunately (for me, and for the world!) I do ignore all other women if I have a serious crush.

[Syka]

I'm the opposite; I can multi-task crushes but not casual dating. I think it's because a crush is just a mild interest, but if I'm dating someone (even casually), it's deeper interest. Not too mention the drama that can come from it. *shudder*

I've only casually dated one person and I don't think I would do it again. Just not my cup of tea. It helps that I seem to have a tendency to date people I know and it kind of just evolves from "friendship" in to "relationship" smoothly and without much fuss. Oz and I had a heck of a time figuring out when our anniversary would be, lol.



Slayer, maybe you should chill with other friends for a little bit? Kind of put some distance there briefly and try to accept their relationship? I also second the finding of a friend with whom you can speak to. Preferably one who knows all parties and can give (hopefully) accurate advice.

[Neko Toast]

Slayer, maybe you should chill with other friends for a little bit? Kind of put some distance there briefly and try to accept their relationship? I also second the finding of a friend with whom you can speak to. Preferably one who knows all parties and can give (hopefully) accurate advice.

I wish that were possible, but it isn't. The only two friends that I actually want to hang out with when I'm at home are those two, and they're also the only two friends I have at home who I feel comfortable talking to. I have friends at college to vaguely know what's going on, but they obviously don't actually know both parties. It's just one of the many reasons why this predicament is so upsetting.

I'm at least going to call and set up an appointment with a therapist, though. This current problem is only icing on the cake of problems I've been having recently.

I just wish that I could at least hang out with him for once. Complicated feelings aside, he's still a good friend of mine, and I feel like I haven't been able to really chill and talk to him about stuff. We always hang out in groups, so it's hard to actually hang out with him with many other people around. I want to ask him if him and I could find a day to just chill together, but I feel like this is a faux-pas, since he's dating someone now.

[J.Gellert]

I want to ask him if him and I could find a day to just chill together, but I feel like this is a faux-pas, since he's dating someone now.

It isn't, but first try to predict if you will feel better or worse afterwards.

[Syka]

It isn't, but first try to predict if you will feel better or worse afterwards.

This. Also try to predict if you'd be tempted to make a move.

I've definitely hung out with guy friends one-on-one since I've been dating, and while it happens rarely and I don't make a habit of it, if you knew the guy beforehand...why not? Oz has also hung out with some of his female friends alone since we've been dating, including his ex (totally platonic now). Unless you think something would happen, there isn't a problem.

[Neko Toast]

This. Also try to predict if you'd be tempted to make a move.

I've definitely hung out with guy friends one-on-one since I've been dating, and while it happens rarely and I don't make a habit of it, if you knew the guy beforehand...why not? Oz has also hung out with some of his female friends alone since we've been dating, including his ex (totally platonic now). Unless you think something would happen, there isn't a problem.

I've never made a move on him before (because I'm a bloody coward), so there's no way that I would do so now. And I honestly believe that I'll feel better if I get some 1-on-1 hang out time with him.

Problem is that I don't know how to go about asking it. Our GURPS campaign meets today (and he's our GM), so there are going to be a lot of people around, his gf included. Wouldn't that seem awkward to bring up in front of a bunch of people?

[Serpentine]

You're pretty short on options, Slayer. I know from all-too-personal experience that there's one thing you need to do if you haven't already: You have these feelings - the crush, the loneliness, the jealousy, etc. You can't help it, they're there, that's the way it is. It's neither good nor bad. Don't stress on whether you "should" feel that way, because that just doesn't matter. You just do. If you don't acknowledge this now, it will get much, much worse later.

So. Your options. I've been kinda listy lately...

1. Stop hanging out with them when they're together.
2. Excuse yourself from the room when they're being couply.
3. Talk to him about it.
4. Talk to her about it.
5. Talk to another friend about it.
6. Deal with it.
7. Come to terms with the fact that you'll never act on this crush, and relegate it to "mere crush" rather than "lovesick puppyness". Start doing what you can to move on.
Bonus option: Next time they break up, after an appropriate period of time, man up and ask him out.

Any others I've missed?

[Neko Toast]

You're pretty short on options, Slayer. I know from all-too-personal experience that there's one thing you need to do if you haven't already: You have these feelings - the crush, the loneliness, the jealousy, etc. You can't help it, they're there, that's the way it is. It's neither good nor bad. Don't stress on whether you "should" feel that way, because that just doesn't matter. You just do. If you don't acknowledge this now, it will get much, much worse later.

So. Your options. I've been kinda listy lately...

1. Stop hanging out with them when they're together.
2. Excuse yourself from the room when they're being couply.
3. Talk to him about it.
4. Talk to her about it.
5. Talk to another friend about it.
6. Deal with it.
7. Come to terms with the fact that you'll never act on this crush, and relegate it to "mere crush" rather than "lovesick puppyness". Start doing what you can to move on.
Bonus option: Next time they break up, after an appropriate period of time, man up and ask him out.

Any others I've missed?

No, those are pretty much the only options I have at this point. 1 and 2 aren't going to work well. 1 wouldn't because it would mean I would stop hanging out with them altogether for the most part, and 2 would also be hard considering they cuddle up with each other when we're playing games or watching something.

3 and 4 are the options I want to try... but as I've mentioned before, if I don't choose my words carefully, something might go wrong (I may just be worrying too much about it, though).

6 and 7 are the most practical, but also the most painful, options.

Not sure about the bonus option. I would probably feel better if I tried it, but at the same time, I'm really pessimistic about it.

If I did go with either choice 3 or 4, what would be the best way to go about it?

[Serpentine]

Consider writing a letter. Keep in mind that there's no body language or tone in text, so you'll have to be careful to put in sufficient information to make up for that. At least, writing a letter might help to order your thoughts and make sure it's all there. Reading it to them, using it as a prompt, can help, too.

[Trellan]

So I met this girl recently. Great person, very much my type, we're getting along great, gone on a few dates (which went very well), yadda yadda. Good, right? I agree, but there's something that's kind of bugging me. She's really hot and cold in a slightly odd way. Whenever we start texting in a day (which we do fairly often), for example, she seems almost completely uninterested. We're talking one word responses, shorthand sentences, the works. She still prompts conversations and all that, she just doesn't seem like she wants to be involved in them at all. Then after an hour or two she's into it and we have nice conversations. It happens whether we start texting in the morning, afternoon, or evening, so I've more or less ruled out things like "she's just tired in the morning".

Dates are the same story. For the first half hour or so she's just completely checked out. I was actually convinced that I was totally tanking our first date and was literally one blank stare away from asking her if she would like me to take her home. Then all the sudden she warms up and we have a great time. That first time I just passed it off as nerves (everyone gets a little wound up on first dates, aye?), but it's still happening.

It's definitely not a deal breaker, but it is making me a little uneasy. It's kind of frustrating trying to have conversation with someone when they seem completely uninterested, even if I know that they will warm up after a little bit. It almost makes me feel like I'm forcing her to talk to me, even when she's the one initiating conversations. On top of that, I feel that any good relationship is one wherein those involved can talk about problems, and this is a good opportunity to see if she's the kind of person who can handle that in case this does develop into something more serious.

Which brings me (finally) to my point. I know that talking is the best option, and it's what I'm planning to do, but we haven't known each other a very long time. We've only been talking for a little under a month and gone on a few dates together. I don't want to come on too strong with a "WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME!?" kind of vibe, but I also want to make it clear that this is something that is a bit worrying to me. Any suggestions on how to start the conversation or theories as to what's up? I'm kind of clueless here. :smallredface:

[Syka]

Is she really busy or otherwise stressed in her life? Is there pressure from work/school/what have you?

I know sometimes it can make me, and others I know, more standoffish and not as engaged as we would be otherwise. Maybe she just has to get in the mental space of "now I can enjoy myself", ya know?

But yeah...just talk to her and say something along the lines of "Hey, sometimes I feel like you aren't as in to our conversations in the beginning as you are later. I was wondering how you feel?"

Or...something. Maybe not the BEST way, but my mind is admittedly addled right now. Something along those lines, though.

[Trellan]

Is she really busy or otherwise stressed in her life? Is there pressure from work/school/what have you?

I know sometimes it can make me, and others I know, more standoffish and not as engaged as we would be otherwise. Maybe she just has to get in the mental space of "now I can enjoy myself", ya know?

Hmm, I can see that being a possibility, but to the best of my knowledge she's not working under an abnormal amount of stress. I mean, she goes to college but it's out for the Summer, and she works, but not full time. That being said, I could still see her being stressed by something at work or other aspects of her life. I'll have to keep that in mind as a potential reason, thanks :smallsmile:

[John Cribati]

Alright, here's my story.
3 Girls: A,C, and D. We all attend (attended in C's Case) the same church.

C is my childhood friend. She's 3-4 years younger than me. We've known each other practically all our lives, and practically everyone who knows us (my father) said or implied we belonged together. The both of us denied it at every opportunity. She moved to Georgia four years ago. Three years ago, she came back to visit her grandmother for the summer, and we started hanging out again. It was during this time that it seemed that everyone who said we liked each other (more specifically, that I liked her) was right. Then she went back to Georgia, and I haven't seen her since.

2 years ago, I went to prom with A. She asked me. It was pretty much this:
A: You're a senior?
Me: Yeah.
A: You wanna take me to prom?
Me: Okay...

It was originally a joke, but I talked to her, like a month and a half before prom and we decided to go together. We had fun (Not too much fun. This isn't one of those church girls). Since then, everyone's been making the same implications about me and A as they were with me and C. Notably, when her own prom came up, she didn't ask me, or rather, I was too stupid to ask her (What's the protocol for that one?). Later on, she brought up the subject of hypothetical marriage, based on the idea that neither of us are married in ten years or so. Me being an idiot, I told her that I was still harboring pseudo-feelings for C. She didn't really know C as well as I did, so she went to some of the "older" members of the church (that is, people who were members of the church before she was; they were all in our age-group) who knew C, confirming that C and I had an apparently obvious pseudo-thing going on during the time that she was around. I got a bit of crap for it, though said crap was more about the age difference between me and C than about A's own feelings. The issue was left alone for a while, and I spent several months thinking about it, until this past Valentine's Day, I got her a card. We haven't really talked about the incident since, though we still see each other a lot. How do I bring that up?

D, I'm a bit concerned about. We're good friends, and I'm getting signals from her. I'm not oblivious, I notice things. The hand motions she makes, the sort-of-snuggle thing she does when she's around me, the way she says my name. It's flattering, yes, but I'm not exactly sure how I feel about her. I'm getting a bit of a "stalker" vibe from her. For example, she once mentioned that she knows how to navigate to her house from my house. I've never seen her house, nor have I mentioned my address to her. I've never had her over, either (Remember, I'm not dealing with those kinds of church girls, except possibly C, since I don't really know her whereabouts). Now, I could be reading far too much into this. She could have gotten my address from one of our mutual friends or something, but It's just a sort of vibe I'm getting, y'know?

[Dallas-Dakota]

Graaah. :smallsigh:

Woe-y whine about non-romantic relationship:

My mom and I....
Well I wouldn't say we're on good terms, or very bad terms.

I have sleeping medications(melatonine), which I take a hour orso before I go to sleep.

- I go downstairs, take it, call out to my mom (and dad, or dad if she's not home), they say''ok'' or something. I go upstairs.

Procededly, the first time whenever she goes upstairs in the next hour, she'l ask if I have taken my medication yet.
(Or simply yell from downstairs)

This has been steadily increasing(she only used to do it every fortnight, now it's up to most nights. And my annoyance and frustration has severely increased.
I know she's pretty forgetfull, and she knows this. However, tonight for the first time I let her know that I was annoyed with it and it turned into a fight.
:smallsigh:


I could go on about other stuff that's (increasingly) bad with the relationship with my mother, but I won't. Because it'd just turn into a endless rant.

Ty if your read it, just needed to vent.(I can't imagine advice for solving this problem....Even though it would be really appreciated(And no, I'm not going to ''just listen'' to my mother because there are far too many other things)

[faerwain]

@ DD:

Sorry to hear, but could'nt you make a simple sign?
I remember the time when my favourite pub was 30 kms away, and my mum had the habit of waking up in the middle of the night, checking if I'm back, and starting to worry when I wasn't(although she knew that I would regularly crash on a friend's couch if I had a beer too much); I, on the other hand, had the habit to make myself a snack before going to bed, which usually consisted of everything that was in the fridge with ketchup.
In the end, she simply started to prepare a big sandwich for me, and so she could just check if the sandwich is still there, without the risk of waking me up (and she still claims she saved a considerable amount of shopping money this way).

Long story short, couldn't you agree on something like: The pills are on the table, and you put them into the cupboard after taking? Or, if she's too forgetful for that, you leave a note "Took them"? Make a line on a chalkboard? A toothpaste message on the mirror?
I think something like that would work better for you, I can see how annoying it must be, getting waked up with "Did you take your sleeping pills?" :smalltongue:

[J.Gellert]

I will be blunt here and say that if that is the extend of your parent-problems, you have it easy. Having someone who worries enough about you to be bothersome is great, so, you know, take it in a good way and be nice to your folks.

[Coidzor]

I don't think the half-truth plan will work. We already hang out with two other friends who are dating each other. If I suddenly brought this up now that the two of them were dating, it would seem a bit suspicious. Not only that, but they would probably just tell me what you guys are already telling me, which is "get out there and go find someone".

As for telling my friend about it, I'd rather not. It seems selfish, and it has the possibility of hurting her feelings.

That last bit is a bit meh, as friends should be able to deal straight without having to worry about squishy stuff as tantamount to the relationship at all times. But yeah... on the selfish bit, I'm not really able to think about the situation in that regard properly, so I'll leave it up to others to advise you on whether that's being overreactive or appropriate. But I'd recommend giving that a second examination at the least.


I would say that I could do this once I went back to college for fall semester, but that's easier said than done. I have three times more friends there than I do at home, but virtually everyone I know there is dating someone. The few guys I had a slight interest in are already in a happy relationship. Guess I'll just have to try meeting more people or something.

Yeah, I was a bit brusque in putting it forth, but, there are things you can do. Find group dance lessons/classes, especially something that might cater to students. It can get you a fun skillset and aid in expanding your network of contacts in addition to just having a higher chance of exposing you to available guys. Other things that you're interested in or feel that if you gave 'em a fair shake you might enjoy can look around in the community you're in or the communities you have access to. Unfortunately I'm not the best at gathering information of that sort, so I can't really give much advice beyond asking your contacts and asking them to ask their contacts and searching online and with things like community message boards and bulletins. Libraries sometimes can have a bit of a hub of things, I think. Any schools, even a community college in the area might have things going on that would be open to general public.


Crush=/=ignoring everyone else. I've definitely multi-tasked crushes before. ;)

It also seems to be a prerequisite for taking the feat "Manly Man of Manliness." I know I usually have about a top 3-5, regardless of how hopeless of a situation it is.:smallwink:
Just a random thought that occurred to me. I am being at least somewhat tongue in cheek here as well.

[Pheehelm]

I love when the rain knocks out my connection and delays my posting for several hours.

Slayer Draco --
Not only that, but they would probably just tell me what you guys are already telling me, which is "get out there and go find someone".Actually, one thing I was kinda thinking of but didn't mention was that one of them might know another guy you would like and introduce you.

Hey, it happens.
As for telling my friend about it, I'd rather not. It seems selfish, and it has the possibility of hurting her feelings.I'm personally not seeing how...I dunno. Question to everyone else -- would you be hurt if your best friend admitted to crushing on your SO?

Coidzor beat me to the other thing I wanted to say, with the "friends should be able to deal straight without having to worry about squishy stuff as tantamount to the relationship at all times."


Trellan -- About the same as what Syka said, but I recommend putting it as an observation instead. Something like "wow, you take some time to warm up, huh?" Exactly how you word it depends on your personalities; you want her to take it as a prompt to talk about herself, not get defensive.

[Coidzor]

I love when the rain knocks out my connection and delays my posting for several hours.
Always fun, that. :/


Coidzor beat me to the other thing I wanted to say, with the "friends should be able to deal straight without having to worry about squishy stuff as tantamount to the relationship at all times." Probably could've put it better than my awkward way of putting it though.

Edit: I hate, hate, HATE, RAGEFACE my heart. :smallfurious: Being in love with a girl out here who I can't pursue because she has a girlfriend and I don't even have a car and in love with a girl back home who I can't pursue because she's my ****ing ex and is moving to Pennsylvania for grad school, well, it just makes me want to tear out all the weak, squishy fleshiness that is the emotional self and curbstomp it.

On the brightside though, I realized that I had at least a partial success this year. I shipped out to a place where I only knew one person who knew only two or three himself and managed to make some actual friendships.

I'd completely forgotten about that due to dwelling more on the things I messed up at.

But that was part of what I was trying to prove to myself, that I could actually make friends.

Now to work on actually feeling some kind of connection with others. Or maybe that's part of my emotional borkedness.

[skywalker]

Dates are the same story. For the first half hour or so she's just completely checked out. I was actually convinced that I was totally tanking our first date and was literally one blank stare away from asking her if she would like me to take her home. Then all the sudden she warms up and we have a great time. That first time I just passed it off as nerves (everyone gets a little wound up on first dates, aye?), but it's still happening.

I'm thinking drugs. It all fits!

Yes, this is a joke.

[Serpentine]

DD: The idea of having the night's pills on the kitchen table every day is a good one. Another one is to do this for a while:
1. Come down stairs.
2. Noisily take out tablets and pour glass of water.
3. Stand in front of mother - bonus points if you're between her and the TV.
4. Stand there until she looks at you.
5. Keeping your eyes on hers, swallow the tablets.
6. Give your mum a kiss and tell her goodnight.
7. Go upstairs.

[Ceric]

First time here.

Do you guys have any advice about long-distance relationships? I'm going to college in the fall but my boyfriend's still in high school. :smallsigh: We'll have various online IM, email, etc, but we just won't be able to physically see each other nearly as often as we'd like. (We might not have phone. See below.)

Also, any advice about what to do since his parents don't actually want him dating? Apparently we're just supposed to be "really good friends". They blocked my cell phone from texting him. They didn't block actual calls, but he thinks they meant to, forgot, and will once the month's phone bill comes in. (We've been getting around the texting by borrowing phones. Unfortunately they blocked my sister's phone as well as mine :smalleek: :smallannoyed:) I'm pretty sure the issue is more that he's not supposed to be dating rather than that they don't like me - he and I were friends for a few years before being together, so we've met each other's parents already and apparently they think I'm "a good kid", according to his younger sister.

Advice such as "don't" will be... well, disappointing but at least listened to.

[Pheehelm]

I myself don't have much in the way of advice for handling long-distance relationships (others will, though, don't worry), but I will say sneaking around his parents like that is bound to make things a lot worse, especially given that you expect them to catch one of your evasions within a month. That's gonna kill the whole "good kid" thing in their eyes, and dampen whatever trust they have in him.

Why don't they want him dating? Is there some condition he needs to fulfill, like getting his grades up? Is there some bargain he can drive with them? Get him to ask them what would convince them he can handle dating.

[Dallas-Dakota]

DD: The idea of having the night's pills on the kitchen table every day is a good one. Another one is to do this for a while:
1. Come down stairs.
2. Noisily take out tablets and pour glass of water.
3. Stand in front of mother - bonus points if you're between her and the TV.
4. Stand there until she looks at you.
5. Keeping your eyes on hers, swallow the tablets.
6. tell her goodnight.
7. Go upstairs.
No can do, she's usually sitting beind her computer and 'l just continue chatting with people on MIRC and what-not.

I will be blunt here and say that if that is the extend of your parent-problems, you have it easy. Having someone who worries enough about you to be bothersome is great, so, you know, take it in a good way and be nice to your folks.

because there are far too many other things)
Such as years of forced therapy, forced trying medication((For my authism)No way did I want that), also this is just one thing in the forgetfullness arguments.

Sure, there are probably people who have it worse then me considering parents. But I don't exactly have good parents either.
(Up to the point a few years ago that I was actually majorly depressed and suicidal for a good part of a year)

So please, I'm sorry, but I sadly don't ''have it easy''.

[Serpentine]

If she has a spinny or wheely chair, spin her around to do it. Otherwise, stand next to her saying "mother" repeatedly until she pays attention.
I wonder, if her memory is that bad, if there's not something up... Early-onset dementia, maybe? Either that, or she's just like me :smallsigh:

[Reluctance]

Ceric: Off thought. When did you two do most of your talking, and how much texting did you do? Depending on his family's plan, it may be an entirely financial decision. 5 cents a text can quickly add up when you're constantly sending each other sweet nothings.

Failing that, it's either them thinking that a relationship takes his time/attention away from more important things, or them being overprotective. If it's the former, his best bet is to make sure to get his other responsibilities out of the way before talking to you, and to show his folks how he's on top of his schedule. If it's the latter, you'll have to do something sneaky, as parents have severe denial issues when it comes to their children growing up.

[Serpentine]

How old are you both?

By the way, long-distance relationships have come up a few times. I don't think anyone so far has said "don't".

[Dallas-Dakota]

If she has a spinny or wheely chair, spin her around to do it. Otherwise, stand next to her saying "mother" repeatedly until she pays attention.
I wonder, if her memory is that bad, if there's not something up... Early-onset dementia, maybe? Either that, or she's just like me :smallsigh:
Surefire way to get her annoyed, which'l most likely spawn into a argument/fight.:smallfrown:

[John Cribati]

Alright, here's my story.
3 Girls: A,C, and D. We all attend (attended in C's Case) the same church.

C is my childhood friend. She's 3-4 years younger than me. We've known each other practically all our lives, and practically everyone who knows us (my father) said or implied we belonged together. The both of us denied it at every opportunity. She moved to Georgia four years ago. Three years ago, she came back to visit her grandmother for the summer, and we started hanging out again. It was during this time that it seemed that everyone who said we liked each other (more specifically, that I liked her) was right. Then she went back to Georgia, and I haven't seen her since.

2 years ago, I went to prom with A. She asked me. It was pretty much this:
A: You're a senior?
Me: Yeah.
A: You wanna take me to prom?
Me: Okay...

It was originally a joke, but I talked to her, like a month and a half before prom and we decided to go together. We had fun (Not too much fun. This isn't one of those church girls). Since then, everyone's been making the same implications about me and A as they were with me and C. Notably, when her own prom came up, she didn't ask me, or rather, I was too stupid to ask her (What's the protocol for that one?). Later on, she brought up the subject of hypothetical marriage, based on the idea that neither of us are married in ten years or so. Me being an idiot, I told her that I was still harboring pseudo-feelings for C. She didn't really know C as well as I did, so she went to some of the "older" members of the church (that is, people who were members of the church before she was; they were all in our age-group) who knew C, confirming that C and I had an apparently obvious pseudo-thing going on during the time that she was around. I got a bit of crap for it, though said crap was more about the age difference between me and C than about A's own feelings. The issue was left alone for a while, and I spent several months thinking about it, until this past Valentine's Day, I got her a card. We haven't really talked about the incident since, though we still see each other a lot. How do I bring that up?

D, I'm a bit concerned about. We're good friends, and I'm getting signals from her. I'm not oblivious, I notice things. The hand motions she makes, the sort-of-snuggle thing she does when she's around me, the way she says my name. It's flattering, yes, but I'm not exactly sure how I feel about her. I'm getting a bit of a "stalker" vibe from her. For example, she once mentioned that she knows how to navigate to her house from my house. I've never seen her house, nor have I mentioned my address to her. I've never had her over, either (Remember, I'm not dealing with those kinds of church girls, except possibly C, since I don't really know her whereabouts). Now, I could be reading far too much into this. She could have gotten my address from one of our mutual friends or something, but It's just a sort of vibe I'm getting, y'know?

I feel ignored :smallfrown:

[potatocubed]

Do you guys have any advice about long-distance relationships? I'm going to college in the fall but my boyfriend's still in high school. :smallsigh: We'll have various online IM, email, etc, but we just won't be able to physically see each other nearly as often as we'd like.

What you need to bear in mind is that an LDR only works as long as the potential exists for it to become an SDR (short-distance-relationship) at some point in the future.

You'll need to plan ahead, consider how things will work out, and then take steps to make sure they work that way.

[Syka]

Ceric, I am an advocate of LDRs. I've done 2. The one that ended ended due to other problems; the 2nd I'm still in and it has become a SDR.

HOWEVER, I'm going to have to advise against this. LDRs work when you are able to communicate on a regular and reliable basis. Having parents who don't WANT you to be dating will realllly put a crimp in this (as you have discovered). I think what you guys need to do is sit them down, and talk to them. Be adult about it. Let them know you guys have X plan in place to keep the relationship from effecting school, etc. If bills are a worry, tell them you will keep to skyping and skip on the texts and phone calls. If the concerns are religious in nature, address them. Basically...don't give them a reason to forbid their son from dating the good kid.

If your are mature and he is over 16, they very well might give in.

If you continue as an LDR, with or without parental approval, there are a few things:

1. Always have a plan in place as to when you will see them again, preferably before leaving from that visit. This gives you something to look forward to whether it's 2 weeks or 2 months in the future.
2. Make time everyday to talk, even if it's just a goodnight or good morning.
3. Have a plan for it becoming an SDR, as mentioned above.

Other than that...be conscious of how you are feeling and all that. If you find your eye straying (and it will) in a concerning manner, nip it in the bud. Pretty much...advice that is applied to an SDR should be applied to an LDR.


Herp, I have nothing. :\ Sorry.

[--Lime--]

I've been in an LDR for about five years now. It's working out fine. It all depends on the other person.

[J.Gellert]

Such as years of forced therapy, forced trying medication((For my authism)No way did I want that), also this is just one thing in the forgetfullness arguments.

Sure, there are probably people who have it worse then me considering parents. But I don't exactly have good parents either.
(Up to the point a few years ago that I was actually majorly depressed and suicidal for a good part of a year)

So please, I'm sorry, but I sadly don't ''have it easy''.

At first I read over your post and didn't think I had anything to reply that would be meaningful. I mean, I am just some random person on the Interblag, who am I to tell you anything?

Then I went to have lunch, and caught this story on the news; mother arrested for brutally beating her 5 year old adopted daughter. This kind of rekindled my interest in this.

Forced medication and therapy for a condition are not the end of the world. It means your parents care. Maybe they went about caring in the wrong way. But at least they have demonstrated an active interest in you and what (at least in their eyes) is best for you.

But I won't dwell on your parents because you may have suffered other, worse things that don't want to post here. I'll just write something for everyone else.

If your parents care about you, accept it for the good intentions. No one is perfect, and we cannot accept perfection from our significant other, or our friends. But unlike friends or lovers, parents that love you do so unconditionally, so we should accept their errors. They force us to do things we don't want. They force us to give up on people we like, even love. But if they do it because they honestly think that's best for us, then we should always forgive them, even if we don't understand it.

I have seen too much... both with people I know and in the hospital. People get old and sick, sometimes suddenly, before you know it. And many people have no one in the world except their children.

So if there is anything I, as a random person on the internet, can really tell you, I guess this is it. Please be kind to your parents.

[MountainKing]

Ceric: Honestly? You're young and going into college. Forgive me for being blunt, but I have a feeling that you shouldn't be holding your breath. Maybe he plans to go to the same college you do, maybe you guys want to be together forever, MAYBE everything is wonderful right now... or maybe you're about to take a very painful step. I'm not trying to be a downer, but it is a distinct possibility that distance and completely different environments will drive you two apart. :smallfrown:

Herpestidae: Tell stalker girl that she makes you uncomfortable; set her down and straighten her out. OR, suck it up and accept that you have somebody pining for you endlessly.

...try not to stare at the shrine.

[Syka]

As a bit of an encouragement, though, my sister and her fiance began dating at their senior prom (no joke). She stayed here, he went away to school about 3 hours. Then she went away to school last year, 3 hours away from here and 2 from him. They see each other...maybe once a month or so.

They're getting married in December. :) College hasn't done anything except bring them closer together and it's pretty adorable.

They aren't all like that (mine certainly wasn't), but there are success stories. I'd say as many LDR success stories, proportionally, as there are SDR success stories.

[loopy]

I feel ignored :smallfrown:

Well, I'm going to be blunt in my advice.

Reading through your issue:
A: If you like her, approach her, ask her out.
C: Irrelevant, out of state.
D: Not much you can do about a stalker. She may just be a bit socially awkward though. If you don't like her, tell her outright. Be friendly, but don't leave any hints that you may like her in the future (for example: I'm just not up for a relationship right now).

Anyway, hope it helps!

[Another_Poet]

Okay guys an update on the crutches situation. I thought about the idea of being confident and learning tricks with my crutches. I haven't learned any tricks but yesterday as I left work I could tell that two women were going to hold the door for me. Instead I got up to cruising speed on the crutches, reached the door ahead of them and opened it and held it for them with my crutches, ever the gentleman. They found it hilarious.

So I guess maybe this weekend I will just go to a coffee house and try to be my confident self without worrying about stupid cutcheses :)

[Serpentine]

Perfect! Beautiful exploitation of the situation! :smallbiggrin:

[Umael]

Way to go, AP!

[skywalker]

HOWEVER, I'm going to have to advise against this. LDRs work when you are able to communicate on a regular and reliable basis. Having parents who don't WANT you to be dating will realllly put a crimp in this (as you have discovered). I think what you guys need to do is sit them down, and talk to them. Be adult about it. Let them know you guys have X plan in place to keep the relationship from effecting school, etc. If bills are a worry, tell them you will keep to skyping and skip on the texts and phone calls. If the concerns are religious in nature, address them. Basically...don't give them a reason to forbid their son from dating the good kid.

Yes. Great advice. "Get along with your parents if at all possible" is hard advice to hear, but good advice to take. Also, SKYPE! I am in love with skype. Seriously. Getcha summat. A webcam is like $20. Or, I can mail you one if you really want it, but you'd have to pay postage and that's probably close enough to $20 that you should just buy a new one, because it will be loads better.


Herp, I have nothing. :\ Sorry.

Yo tambien. I would respond, otherwise.

[arguskos]

I have a conundrum. Would anyone who's interested in helping with something that's tangentially relationship-related mind PMing me? If not, that's cool, don't wish to intrude. :smallcool:

[Pyrian]

Ah, parents. Never got along with them until I was able to cut financial ties. Once they had no practical authority over me, we got along fine. :smallamused: ...Doesn't stop them from telling me to do stuff we all know perfectly well I'm not going to do, it just doesn't become a fight any more.

[Ceric]

Whoa lotta responses. Let's see if I can be organized here.


Why don't they want him dating? Is there some condition he needs to fulfill, like getting his grades up? Is there some bargain he can drive with them? Get him to ask them what would convince them he can handle dating.
Well, summer vacation's started so grades shouldn't really be an issue now... During the school year, I don't know his exact GPA but he was in the top 4%. Given our school, that's at least 4.0.


Ceric: Off thought. When did you two do most of your talking, and how much texting did you do? Depending on his family's plan, it may be an entirely financial decision. 5 cents a text can quickly add up when you're constantly sending each other sweet nothings.
We talked mostly at school and now we meet and hang out few times a week. His family has unlimited texting so I don't think that's the issue.


Failing that, it's either them thinking that a relationship takes his time/attention away from more important things, or them being overprotective. If it's the former, his best bet is to make sure to get his other responsibilities out of the way before talking to you, and to show his folks how he's on top of his schedule. If it's the latter, you'll have to do something sneaky, as parents have severe denial issues when it comes to their children growing up.
I'm pretty sure it's the time/attention one. Yeah, I'm trying to get him to do that. He's the one who doesn't like being responsible :smallannoyed:


How old are you both?
I'm 18 and he's 17.


HOWEVER, I'm going to have to advise against this. LDRs work when you are able to communicate on a regular and reliable basis. Having parents who don't WANT you to be dating will realllly put a crimp in this (as you have discovered).
Yeah, that's pretty much the main problem :smallsigh:


I think what you guys need to do is sit them down, and talk to them. Be adult about it. ...

If you continue as an LDR, with or without parental approval, there are a few things...
Okay, will try that :smallsmile:


Ceric: Honestly? You're young and going into college. Forgive me for being blunt, but I have a feeling that you shouldn't be holding your breath. Maybe he plans to go to the same college you do, maybe you guys want to be together forever, MAYBE everything is wonderful right now... or maybe you're about to take a very painful step. I'm not trying to be a downer, but it is a distinct possibility that distance and completely different environments will drive you two apart. :smallfrown:
I'm aware :smallfrown: And he doesn't plan to go to the same college as me, given his grades. Just gonna see what happens, I suppose.


As a bit of an encouragement, though, my sister and her fiance began dating at their senior prom (no joke).
Ahaha :smallredface:

[Eloi]

I feel ignored :smallfrown:

Your scenario is really complicated and long, I think people are just trying to take the time to actually read and understand all of it.

[Syka]

*hugs* If you approach it maturely, it hopefully won't go too badly. I mean, Oz and I are together a slightly disconcerting amount of time (not attached at the hip, but most free time is spent together), but his mom knows I'm not just letting him slack off. When he was in classes, I made sure he was studying etc, and now I make sure his film stuff is getting done. I think if she thought I wasn't encouraging him to do stuff other than just be with me, she'd be concerned.


I have a feeling its the same problem, but reversed, that another poster was worrying about- them thinking YOU will be separating him from his other friends.

But yeah...I've found that most adults, if you approach them maturely and with respect that they are pretty willing to listen. Unless they are just out-and-out unreasonable.




Yeah, my sister's situation was pretty hysterical. They went to the same school for over 5 years, had the SAME group of friends, and didn't ever meet until senior prom. At which point they danced and the rest is history.

[MountainKing]

I'm aware :smallfrown: And he doesn't plan to go to the same college as me, given his grades. Just gonna see what happens, I suppose.

Like I said, I don't want to be negative, but I can't stand to see people set themselves up for hurt like that (ironically, I do it to myself near constantly). As long as you're aware that that could be a very real ending, I think you'll do okay. Just don't turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Another_Poet]

Like I said, I don't want to be negative, but I can't stand to see people set themselves up for hurt like that (ironically, I do it to myself near constantly). As long as you're aware that that could be a very real ending, I think you'll do okay. Just don't turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

+1 for this. I do hope your situation goes well but I have a dim view of long-distance relationships generally, having done 3 of them myself.

[tomandtish]

a tangled mess


I feel ignored :smallfrown:

I think part of the problem is that it’s not entirely clear what sort of advice you’re looking for. I’m going to take a stab at this, but some clarification may be necessary.

In reading this, I get the following (please correct me if I’m wrong):

Girl C: Long time friend, but she’s out of state . You started realizing you had feelings for her 3 years ago when she came for the summer. You haven’t seen her in 3 years (any plans to see her in the reasonable future?). Also, your wording implies that the feelings are one sided (at least, as far as you know, or mostly). Did I get that mostly right?

Girl A: In reading, I get that you took her to your prom, she did not return the favor. Did you all actually do any serious dating? It’s hard to tell if you’ve actually seriously dated (other than the one prom), or if you’ve done the “Well, we don’t have anyone else in our lives right now” dating. I’m not getting the feel of any real dating, and that any potential is on hold because of what she has heard about girl C.

Girl D (by the way, what happened to B)?: Obviously interested in you. If you are not interested in her, nip it in the bud now, before she decides you are an item. There are people (men as well as women) out there who after a while assume the relationship exists.

As for knowing where you live, how concerning that is depends on how hard you are to find online. Many people spend time googling friends just to see what they can find, and unfortunately a lot of information is out there that you may not intend. My wife and I did a great job of keeping our address offline (and my wife’s name was not online as well) until a local realtor company paid the fees to access the public tax records. They then created an online listing of every property in the area, who owned it, as well as what the assessed property value was (all public information and all technically accessible if you want to file the paperwork). We complained, but there’s nothing we can do, although we did refuse to sell to anyone using that realtor, and won when he filed a discrimination lawsuit. Point is, if you typed in my name, you got my address and the assessed value of my home.

Now if she’s paying the fees to get the information, I suggest you run.

Anyway, if your question is which girl you should choose, the truth is I’m not sure you should choose any of them (at least with the information so far). C seems like a missed opportunity. She’s not instate, contact seems limited, and it sounds like the interest was (at least mostly) one-sided). As for A, I’m not getting the feeling that there’s serious interest on either part. Now if you’re just looking for someone for fun dates while you wait for something more serious to come along, she seems like the best bet.

When it comes to assessing a relationship, I’m a big believer in trusting your first instinct if something feels wrong. Given that, sounds like d is not a good choice at this time either.

Anyway, hope this helps. I’m not sure if I answered the question you intended to ask.

:smallsmile:

[John Cribati]

Girl C: Long time friend, but she’s out of state . You started realizing you had feelings for her 3 years ago when she came for the summer. You haven’t seen her in 3 years (any plans to see her in the reasonable future?). Also, your wording implies that the feelings are one sided (at least, as far as you know, or mostly). Did I get that mostly right?

Pretty much


Girl A: In reading, I get that you took her to your prom, she did not return the favor. Did you all actually do any serious dating? It’s hard to tell if you’ve actually seriously dated (other than the one prom), or if you’ve done the “Well, we don’t have anyone else in our lives right now” dating. I’m not getting the feel of any real dating, and that any potential is on hold because of what she has heard about girl C.

We haven't really gone out, but we've been closer since prom, and after much introspection, I've decided that want to ask her out. I want to know how best to bring it up, without sounding stupid or desperate.

As to the lack of girl B, I actually used the girls' first initials. And if you must know, there was a girl B, who I'm sorta-kinda (platonicly) flirty with. Let's leave her out of this. Also, Me, A, B, and D are on the same choir, so... yeah.

[tomandtish]

Pretty much



We haven't really gone out, but we've been closer since prom, and after much introspection, I've decided that want to ask her out. I want to know how best to bring it up, without sounding stupid or desperate.

As to the lack of girl B, I actually used the girls' first initials. And if you must know, there was a girl B, who I'm sorta-kinda (platonicly) flirty with. Let's leave her out of this. Also, Me, A, B, and D are on the same choir, so... yeah.

Sounds like this might be a “less is more” situation. Just ask her out (like you would anyone else). Don’t make a huge seal out of it, and don’t bring up the past issues unless she does. If she says yes, great. Have a good time.

If it’s a No, then it depends on the type of no. If it’s a clear cut No as in “Not going to happen now or ever”, then cut your losses and move on. On the other hand, if it’s a “No, I don’t think that would be a good idea”, then ask her why. If she brings up C, then it’s time to explain to her that C was someone you were interested in briefly, she was not interested in you, this was 3 years ago, and you’ve moved on. (I’m assuming you’ve moved on since you want to ask her out). Since it sounds like this church community is fairly open in its communication, make sure you’re honest with her.

If she’s upset about you having feelings for C while you and her were hanging out, all you can do is try and explain that you were still trying to sort things out, you weren’t sure where you stood with her (A), and you didn’t want to lead her on while you were not sure of your feelings (which is what I took from your original statements, so feel free to correct me if wrong).

[Totally Guy]

I need to feel sexy because I've never felt sexy before.

How can I go about doing that?

[Quincunx]

Austin Powers audience participation marathon?
. . .the "hamming it up" part works, at least. . .

[Keld Denar]

Try going to a naked corn maze. If that doesn't help, play D&D with your group...naked!

:smallcool:

In all seriousness, the best way to improve body image is to work out. Its hard, it may not be easy, or fun, but trust me when I say that nothing else in the world makes you feel the way you feel after a hard workout, especially immediately after the post workout shower.

[Serpentine]

Spiffy new clothes. Clothes you can strut in.

[Lioness]

Spiffy new clothes. Clothes you can strut in.

Like a suit. Suits are sexy.

[Quincunx]

Like a suit. Suits are sexy.

They're sexy for the viewer though. I don't know a lot of guys who look at their uniform and say, "Time to put on the sexy." I hear, instead, a lot of complaints, mostly about collars and ties.

[Serpentine]

A suit is a good contender, but anything that you can put on, know that you're dressed to the nines, and think "I look goooooooooood."

[Totally Guy]

Try going to a naked corn maze. If that doesn't help, play D&D with your group...naked!

:smallcool:

Cripes, we're doing that again in 5 weeks time. :redface:

I've lost weight. My arms are looking bulkier, waist is looking trimmer (no abs though). Moobs... grr... more persistent than everything else... (that makes it worse!)

I ought to get some really good clothes... But because I was taught that I'd always struggle to have enough money I always shop around and go for cheaper things... I ought to put a few hundred pounds in my pocket and go shopping with someone who knows style...

[Serpentine]

Any good op shops near you? You can often find some really good stuff in them, for dirt cheap.
Just going out and trying things on can be good, too. Especially if you've lost weight and can be pleasantly surprised at the sizes that fit you, instead of put on weight :smallsigh:

[YPU]

Not to talk you into big spending, but it is true that people often feel better looking in more expansive clothes.
So if I can go to town with a bit of money it might not be a bad idea. Else you might actually need to find clothes that actually look good besides having an expansive brand name on then.

[BSW]

Like a suit. Suits are sexy.

Agreed. With the caveat that the suit has to actually fit properly. Off the rack is perfectly fine but you always need to have the suit adjusted. Also, it can't be an overly cheap suit. The really cheap suits always look cheap.


The most important thing though is that you find something that you think you look good in. You also need to get comfortable wearing it. If you're not comfortable, then you'll always look a bit insecure while you're wearing it... and that isn't sexy.

[Eloi]

You know what's sexier than suits? Hoodies.

Who's with me?

...

...

...

Okay then suits it is then...

[skywalker]

In all seriousness, the best way to improve body image is to work out. Its hard, it may not be easy, or fun, but trust me when I say that nothing else in the world makes you feel the way you feel after a hard workout, especially immediately after the post workout shower.

Any physical activity will do, in my experience. Anything that reminds you that you're descended from a long line of warriors, hunters, and other highly active, sexy things.


They're sexy for the viewer though. I don't know a lot of guys who look at their uniform and say, "Time to put on the sexy." I hear, instead, a lot of complaints, mostly about collars and ties.

Not me. When I put on my suits, I turn and look in the mirror and go "F***... I look good."

BUT!:


Agreed. With the caveat that the suit has to actually fit properly. Off the rack is perfectly fine but you always need to have the suit adjusted. Also, it can't be an overly cheap suit. The really cheap suits always look cheap.

This. It doesn't need to be Savile Row tailored, but it does need to be made to fit your body properly.

Also, don't wear a suit to, like, McDonald's. Obviously. You look like you're trying too hard.


I've lost weight. My arms are looking bulkier, waist is looking trimmer (no abs though). Moobs... grr... more persistent than everything else... (that makes it worse!)

Abs are some of the hardest thing to get. We're designed to carry fat in front of them, so getting them to show is one of the most difficult things. You have to have really low body fat %, or be of a less-common body type. You might actually have abs that just aren't visible. I have tremendous abs but never any definition down there. Also, same with moobs. You can build up the muscle under the fat and that will actually make them more prominent. A lot of guys who work out a lot don't have the ripped chest look because of how bulk is carried. Needs moar cardio haha. (Ugh :smallyuk:)

[Quincunx]

This might also be the time to try different types of sexy. . .flashy sexy (not you, I think, but who knows?), debonair sexy (with suit), suave sexy (with suit and witty repartee), studly sexy, steady sexy, cuddly sexy, excuse me while I go take a shower.


You know what's sexier than suits? Hoodies.

Who's with me?

...

...

...

Okay then suits it is then...

You would be very happy here. Hope you like tracksuits to go with 'em. Hoodies are unhappy-making if you have any interest in longer hair though.

[snoopy13a]

Suits are great for slightly overweight people to look good. A quality suit will cover 20 or so extra pounds.

However, in the US, very few people wear suits on a daily basis. It is essentially down to most attorneys (lawyers are required to wear suits in the courtroom but some who aren't going to court that day won't wear a suit) and some people who work at more conservative places of business. Physicians don't usually wear suits. Some go with the lab coat and tie look while others will go without a tie. At the hospital, some will wear a lab coat for rounds while others will change into scrubs.

Personally, I think the business casual look is sloppy. A man wearing a golf shirt and carrying weight around the middle doesn't scream professionalism in my book.

[Serpentine]

Also, don't wear a suit to, like, McDonald's. Obviously. You look like you're trying too hard.Pft. Inappropriate situational formal attire rawks. Bit more comfortable in a group, though.

Hoodies... meh.

[Zeb The Troll]

Personally, I think the business casual look is sloppy. A man wearing a golf shirt and carrying weight around the middle doesn't scream professionalism in my book.Out of curiosity, what would you recommend we wear on a daily basis then?

[Nano]

So guys, I'm something of a social recluse, as a result of nature and focusing almost all my attentions on one person in what turned out to be an unhealthy way. Only now I'm going stir crazy, I'm driving myself further into depression and apathy as a result of loneliness, and I'm becoming increasingly irritable to anyone who actually does want to talk to me (2-3 people max.)

I need to recover. Also, I need to meet people. I've never been comfortable in crowds, though, and the drive to actually introduce myself to and start conversations with new people is practically gone. Anyone have any advice? Failing that, does anyone want to hang out sometime?

[Zeb The Troll]

So guys, I'm something of a social recluse, as a result of nature and focusing almost all my attentions on one person in what turned out to be an unhealthy way. Only now I'm going stir crazy, I'm driving myself further into depression and apathy as a result of loneliness, and I'm becoming increasingly irritable to anyone who actually does want to talk to me (2-3 people max.)

I need to recover. Also, I need to meet people. I've never been comfortable in crowds, though, and the drive to actually introduce myself to and start conversations with new people is practically gone. Anyone have any advice? Failing that, does anyone want to hang out sometime?If you're anywhere near Baltimore/Northern Virginia, you'd be more than welcome to come hang out with us. (Apologies if I should know where you are by now. I keep being surprised when I hear someone lives near me and then, when I comment on it, I'm told that we've had this conversation previously.)

[Nano]

Unfortunately I have the great displeasure of living in Texas, otherwise I'd gladly take you up on your offer. (And no, the only times I can think of us talking is over WAR or Aion.)

[Serpentine]

Where are you up to, life-wise?

[Nano]

Seventeen, coming into my final year of high school, no driver's license yet but it'll probably happen sometime this summer if not Monday.

[Serpentine]

Hm. That's a little trickier.
Any friendly acquaintances you could try getting to know better? Otherwise, have a look at what community education type things are around that you might be interested in (a book club or a pottery class or a writing course, something like that. Maybe whatever your equivalent to Tafe is), or join a club, or some charity work - something that gets you out and doing something, and interacting with other people.

[Scorpina]

Okay, I've been toying with the idea of posting in this thread for a bit now, and I've decided to bite the bullet: there's this girl. She's a co-worker, and she's gorgeous and we get on really well. Not long after I started at work I (accidentally, as it happens) came out as bi to most of the staff - her included. Later that day, she came up to me in private, said how inspired she was at my bravery and confided that she too enjoys the company of women.

Since then, we've been out together a couple of times on things that may or may not have been dates, we've kissed and I've told her directly that I want to be her girlfriend. She isn't ready for that, she says. Especially because it'd be taking a step closer to being 'out', which she is also not ready for (especially at work). Now, of course I respect this and I understand it completely, and I've told her that I can wait until she feels more comfortable - something that seemed to make her happy. I've also been looking for other work, which might help. (I haven't been looking because of this, it's just a happy coincidence).

Right now, I'm just doing my best to be patient and hope things will work out. Am I right to do that? Is there any good way to cope with it?

[SuperPanda]

Re: Scorpina

I don't think there is a "right" way to do those things. When I've been in situations where I wind up waiting on a person the people around me tell me that I shouldn't stop looking for other avenues. The way some of the less diplomatic men I know say it is "put her on the back burner and remember to stir every now and then."

Basically, you need to remember that you are just as important as she is and that her fear of coming out in contest with the affections you two share.

My own situation is not that different in its own way. I came out to China to work in education and while here I met a wonderful woman (though I am a man I will soon get to how it is similar). We hit things off well but there was a catch. Shortly after things started going well she got a good placement in the military with a branch of a security arm... for reasons that should be obvious she can't date foreign nationals or she might be accused of espionage.

Now she is highly qualified for a number of other jobs and this job wasn't her first pick, but its still a difficulty which she would have to overcome if she were to pick me.

Your case is better in some ways. Your lovely lady is looking for the courage to be true to herself, something she will more likely than not find eventually. My lady is probably never going to decide to chance her future on love and abandon a prestigious posting and risk being frowned on by her family.

We are both hoping that the situation will change and that they'll come our way, but neither of us have any idea when it will happen.

So, my advice (taken with a grain of salt since I am a man, in a foreign country, with very different experiences) is that you need to look out for you in the end. Set a time in your head that you think its reasonable to wait for, set it now and hold yourself to it. Don't burn her bridge if she takes longer than that, just stop waiting for her. If she shows up while your still around, great! If not, you were more than good to her.

Relationships where you have to risk public/familial disapproval are scary. Sometimes they do like you, but just not enough. I hope your case isn't like that and that you help her find the strength to be true to herself.

On how to cope with the waiting... Hopefully the next people will have great advice. :)

[MountainKing]

Right now, I'm just doing my best to be patient and hope things will work out. Am I right to do that? Is there any good way to cope with it?

As I am likewise a dude, I will do my utmost to give gender-neutral advice on this; at the moment, as I don't know you terribly well, I only have two things to say about your situation, Scorpina, and I hope they help.

1.) Absolutely. The list of cliches concerning patience is endless, but in my experience they're true to the last, and given that from the sound of things, at the very least you two care about each other on some level, I would have to say that patience will pay out well in the end. In this, I wish you the best. :smallsmile:

2.) Do NOT under any circumstances stop looking for other work, particularly if you want to pursue this further. Every single "at work" relationship I've ever witnessed, bar ONE, has ended in miserable, burning failure, complete with heightened tensions, thinly veiled irritation, and snippy remarks. Maybe that's just my experience; maybe it'll actually be just fine. My take on it? Don't risk it. Working with someone you're also in a relationship with can cause a serious amount of grief and awkwardness, and as such, it's a situation that I *always* advise against.

As the poster before me, take this with a grain of salt, though for me, it's because I don't have first hand knowledge of you or your attractee, nor your situation itself (both in the specific and general sense).

[skywalker]

Pft. Inappropriate situational formal attire rawks. Bit more comfortable in a group, though.

Yeah, if it's in a group, I suppose. But just by yourself? You look as though you're trying to be weird (or trying too hard, or are lost in a different era, depending on age), and at least for me, that's not what I'm interested in.


Right now, I'm just doing my best to be patient and hope things will work out. Am I right to do that? Is there any good way to cope with it?

I think Panda-guy is kinda right. If you don't mind waiting, then do so. But don't close your eyes to the rest of the world. Could be somebody even better around the next corner. I don't think you should necessarily have a set time or whatever, just don't close your mind either way (to other people or to her). Make sense?

[BSW]

Personally, I think the business casual look is sloppy. A man wearing a golf shirt and carrying weight around the middle doesn't scream professionalism in my book.

Common misconception right there. A man wearing a golf or polo shirt ISN'T in business casual attire. The best way to think of business casual for men is as literally half of a suit. It's what you have when you're wearing a suit and you take your jacket and tie off and undo the top button of your dress shirt. In other words, it's a dress shirt, nice slacks, and dress shoes.

The look you're thinking of is actually called semi-casual. It typically consists something like a polo and slacks or a dress shirt and nice jeans.



So guys, I'm something of a social recluse, as a result of nature and focusing almost all my attentions on one person in what turned out to be an unhealthy way. Only now I'm going stir crazy, I'm driving myself further into depression and apathy as a result of loneliness, and I'm becoming increasingly irritable to anyone who actually does want to talk to me (2-3 people max.)

I need to recover. Also, I need to meet people. I've never been comfortable in crowds, though, and the drive to actually introduce myself to and start conversations with new people is practically gone. Anyone have any advice? Failing that, does anyone want to hang out sometime?

I was a bit of a social recluse myself when I was your age. My advice is as follows:

1) Get off the computer. MMOs like WAR and Aion may be fun time-killers, but they're not very conducive to making friends in real life. You're not going to meet very many people on the internet who you can actually socialize with in real life on any sort of regular basis.

2) You visit this website, so you're clearly into gaming and the like. Find a local game/comic shop where people congregate and go hang out there. Make an effort to talk to people there. I think most, if not all, will be quite sympathetic to someone who has a hard time getting to know new people.

3) Join a club or some extra-curricular activity at school and actually participate. It's a good way of forcing yourself to meet and talk to people. Any clubs that require a lot of personal interaction are good for this.

4) Look into non-school affiliated activities to participate in. Taking martial arts lessons can be a good way to meet people. Whatever activity you choose, make the effort to speak to your fellows.

5) Make an effort to suggest activities with people who you seem to hit it off with. Suggest getting a group of people together to go see a movie.

Note, everything I suggested requires effort on your part. You said "the drive to introduce yourself and start conversations is practically gone." You've got to force yourself to do it anyway.

Friendship isn't just going to fall into your lap. You've gotta be proactive or you'll just continue to be alone.

[sktarq]

Right now, I'm just doing my best to be patient and hope things will work out. Am I right to do that? Is there any good way to cope with it?

Sound like the right course of action to me. But then again I've waited more than a few times. For relationship to end, for people to move, and most relevantly for someone to be ready to tell their parents that they didn't want to date within their Ethnicity/Religion. And been waited on.

So advice....Mostly the biggest rocks in the road that I've hit plus a couple coping ideas.

First thing I'd recommend is to remember that you are not dating. This may be easy or it may be a pain. If she can't accept a relationship with you now don't emotionally commit to her. It may mean you just flirt with whomever you find attractive. It helps with the pining and is generally better for your emotional health. And if something happens with someone else- well you're single-it's okay and see where life takes you. Other posters have mentioned this and I second them

On not letting things fizzle (hot). By the sounds of things you have already got your pseudo-dates and the occasional kiss going. This is good but dangerous. The lack of any defined relationship can set a few traps. Mostly it is just things to watch for. Depending on how sexually attracted/aggressive you are libido etc it is easy to let those occasional kisses to become outsize in importance....especially if you don't have other people. Even if you spend 99.99% of your time doing nothing "girlfriendy" it can come off wrong and spoil the whole thing. Thing to watch for here is emotional kicks. Even if he isn't ready for a relationship she is deeming you "special" and that can be a huge ego stroke. From time to time listen to your heartbeat or butterflies to tell you where you are getting your emotional connection. If it is becoming anchored by the physical (which is easier when you don't see each other regularly such as work) then bite the bullet and tone it down. That hurts but the other way is obsession.
Also watch for the Girlfriend in all but name. This is one that may be right for a while but should be entered with open eyes. Basically you are dating except for anything public or (often) sexual. It is sorta like very close friends with a lead on. The Real thing to watch for here is reciprocity. It's easy when you are ready for a relationship and they aren't for it to end up as a lopsided friendship, often without either side meaning to make it such. It kills the idea that they'd been better off making a change and eventually feels like you are being used which kills the romance.

On not letting things Fizzle (cold): Two main things here. Don't let your emotions shut off about it. That means knowing it will hurt when she is saying no with the position of her feet and that she will say that for a while at least. It's letting yourself be reminded why you have a crush on her and not shoving it down. Lots of people try to control "inappropriate" emotions. Don't let yourself control your emotions but only your actions.
As for the other main idea here, keep up the not-quite-dates. And make sure that every once in a while when you are meeting up just as friends that it is "date like". Don't forget to sneak in the flirt. Sounds easy but it is easy to get lazy and appear to be over the crush or just not be able for her to think of you "that way" or at least enough to overcome her "outing" worries

On Pedestals. When you have such a person who isn't quite ready it is very easy to put them on a pedestal. It doesn't help and feels a bit creepy to find yourself on one, which gives you less of a chance to ever actually HAVE the relationship. It also puts you in the position of having a very good reality not living up to your out-of-this-world expectations and the relationship suffers-often ending for it.

On coping. It's tough. Figure out how comfortable she is with you being date like and indulge every once in a while. Don't dream about a future together when you can help it-leads to all sorts of problems. Find a routine thing to do together (Movie Thursdays, Making pie on sundays, paintball etc) that gives you regular contact. It helps during emotional swings that you have a friend thing to do to break the ice if things got awkward last time, and to move past the pain without killing the emotion behind it. Also make sure you do something similar with a different friend/group to steady you...if you are going on a path you know will hurt for a bit having an emotional release (Id say both friends and something physical like a sport or gym) is critical.

Finally figure out what emotional conditions will get you to stop waiting. Having a known cut off point helps immensely. I'd recommend not making it a given amount of time but of a state of the relationship. Dates can always be pushed back. It's a known point and an emotional backstop that helps to tell you that you are not crazy and helps you stay that way.

EDIT: any ways of helping it along I will leave to you and deny all knowledge....and add it to the files.

[Coidzor]

How long should one wait for someone to make up their mind after the whole dating formally rather than doing things together as friends thing has been put forth before saying that it's doomed to failure even if she says yes?

If she does finally say yes and start formally dating my best friend, what can I do in order to stand her presence given the hell she's put me through by having to give advice to my best friend on a situation that seems like hell^2?

Also, if they do start dating, I'm pretty sure she hates me as despite my best foot forward she acts like I spontaneously suck the happiness and warmth out of her life just by existing within 50 feet of her, how do I confirm whether she actually has a problem with me or if she's just giving off inappropriate cues in keeping with her general lack of social exposure? I mean, after the initial five minute period she's able to suppress most outward signs of any unease, but whenever she sees me there's this moment of shock and abject horror that spreads across her face like a flood from the Mississippi River.

[Pyrian]

You don't like her, she doesn't like you, and she's currently dating stringing along your best friend? Feel free to advise your best friend (preferably not in her presence) that until he has a commitment from her he should act uncommitted himself. Other than that... I recommend that you keep your nose clean and your mouth firmly shut in all ways regarding her and their "relationship" (such as it is). Keep to the high road! You'll want to be on high ground when the tide-of-slime breaks...

[loopy]

I genuinely like a girl for once, but my mind shuts down whenever I'm around her.

Damn, relationships and dating are so much easier when I'm not emotionally involved! :smallsigh:

[Serpentine]

Sucked in :smalltongue:

[loopy]

Sucked in :smalltongue:

Its okay, whenever I get too down, I just indulge in meaningless sex and everything seems better again. :smalltongue:

On a more serious note: Not letting a girl lead you on is fine. Accidentally telling a girl your plans for not letting her lead you on... Not so much. :smallsigh:

[J.Gellert]

On a more serious note: Not letting a girl lead you on is fine. Accidentally telling a girl your plans for not letting her lead you on... Not so much. :smallsigh:

It's not that bad, if you try to be playful about it.

[The Succubus]

How long should one wait for someone to make up their mind after the whole dating formally rather than doing things together as friends thing has been put forth before saying that it's doomed to failure even if she says yes?

If she does finally say yes and start formally dating my best friend, what can I do in order to stand her presence given the hell she's put me through by having to give advice to my best friend on a situation that seems like hell^2?

Also, if they do start dating, I'm pretty sure she hates me as despite my best foot forward she acts like I spontaneously suck the happiness and warmth out of her life just by existing within 50 feet of her, how do I confirm whether she actually has a problem with me or if she's just giving off inappropriate cues in keeping with her general lack of social exposure? I mean, after the initial five minute period she's able to suppress most outward signs of any unease, but whenever she sees me there's this moment of shock and abject horror that spreads across her face like a flood from the Mississippi River.

Have you talked to your friend about it? Have you asked him how he truly feels about her?

Also, weird sig you have there. :smallconfused:

[loopy]

It's not that bad, if you try to be playful about it.

I think I've salvaged it. Was touch and go there for a while though.

[J.Gellert]

I think I've salvaged it. Was touch and go there for a while though.

The harder it is, the more XP you gain from it :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Have you talked to your friend about it? Have you asked him how he truly feels about her?

Also, weird sig you have there. :smallconfused:

He's convinced it'll work out beautifully if she'll just stop being flustered by the idea of romance in and of itself, gets to a less stressful place with her two jobs working with sexually/physically abused kids and orphans(who, let's face it... have a tendency to have some overlap with the prior case), and gets over herself and her crumbling religious issues with dating.

Me, I don't think anyone who keeps getting too flustered to talk even while attempting to approach the situation as talking openly about it is even capable of a relationship.

In short, I see everything wrong with homeschooling and attempting to coddle and cloister one's children away from the corrupting influences of the world in her. Also, what could've been if I hadn't shaped up and finally been able to get along with other humans after my initial pubescent orneriness, so she sorta freaks me out as well.

The thing that sucks is that we started out friendly enough and even seemed to be having some sort of developing friendship, but ever since my best friend first started courting her months ago and got a generic "I'm not in a place right now for thinking about it," she's been acting off. I'm not exactly sure what it was, but there were a number of things that happened around that time, my best friend started courting her, I started seeing the girl I'm still seeing, she started training for her victim advocacy thing...

And, yeah, it is a weird sig, but it amused me. And Elrond's the guy who made my current avatar.

I just don't know what to say when he brings her up and when he does bring her up... it dominates his thoughts and what he'll go on and on about for... well, a rather long time.

[Malfunctioned]

Okay, my situation has become a little more complicated. Not too much though.

First of all, M does have some feelings for me. I only really found this out due to my extremely maternal friend H, who I shall refer to here as I do in real-life. With the name Mum. The situation is essentially this, M has feelings for me but she's is quite apprehensive about the relationship thing due to both me being good friends with her ex J and due to the fact that me and her became quite close friends without really getting to know each other, which is actually true. So in short, she 'likes' me but isn't sure if she wants to be with me. Or at least that's what I've learnt from Mum.

And then there's E. We've still been texting a hell of a lot. As in from 11 PM on thursday night until 2:50 AM friday and then continuing from about 10 AM on friday to half 1 on saturday. I would of texted more but I ran out of texts on my mobile contract. I really do like her and I'm pretty sure she reciprocates the feelings. She finishes her exams next week and we've planned to meet up after that for the wine she suggested before. No solid date set yet but it's up there. She is also extremely cynical, I may have mentioned that before but it really is something that I find oddly attractive.

So yeah. That's about it really. I have M's 18th party coming up and I'll be trying not to do my usual thing at parties, in which I become quite amorous to say the least. Here's hoping.

[Aedilred]

This is going to be a difficult post.

I split up with my girlfriend yesterday. She initiated it, but I didn't really contest her decision- much as I wanted to- because even if I could have talked her out of it, it wouldn't have solved the underlying problems.

The specifics are probably not forum-friendly (if you want to know for any reason other than voyeurism, PM me) but basically boil down to "it's not you, it's me". It was about as amicable as a break-up gets, I suppose- we professed that we still loved each other, she said that she couldn't bear not to have me in her life, and we agreed to (at least try to) be friends. That didn't stop it being very upsetting.

I'm completely in pieces; everyone so far has told me that I'm coping with it very well, but this is just my putting on a brave face. The only reason I'm not in floods of tears is that I've gone past that point and out the other side. I feel completely emotionally dead; I can't summon up enthusiasm or amusement or even frustration about anything. The feeling reminds me of a couple of years ago when I was on antidepressants. I can feel nothing except the overriding pain and anguish. I know it's early days yet, but I think it still hasn't fully sunk in, the worst might still be to come, and I'm dreading it.

I don't really understand her reasoning, probably because it's not something rational. The problems that she says are the cause of it are not new and have been there for over four years. They bother me a little, but if I thought they were a serious problem I wouldn't still have been there- but it's her perception of how the problems affect me, and in turn, her, that seem to be the issue. Apart from anything else, I can't see how splitting up is going to make either of us happier. Certainly I can't see anything good about it at this stage.

I'm trying to keep myself busy and in company at the moment so I don't dwell on it too much- spend as much time at work as possible, and arrange to meet friends in the evenings. I'm seeing a mutual friend who might be able to offer some insight on Wednesday, and my now-ex (just typing that gives me the shivers) on Thursday to exchange various bits and pieces that we've kept at each others' places.

What I want more than anything is for her to change her mind and decide she's made a terrible mistake- indeed I made her promise that if she does to let me know. But when I listen to my head rather than my heart I can't see it happening. I don't know what to do- I'm trying to be dignified and adult about it, but I also feel I've just let the most important thing in my life walk away without putting up a fight, and I want to throw myself on my knees and beg and plead for her to reconsider. Every plan, hope, ambition that I've ever made or had for the rest of my life has featured her prominently; my whole existence has just been turned on its head.

Obviously I'm too close to this to make much sense of it now, but I do just feel completely lost and alone in the dark. My life before her was a long catalogue- five years- of despair and depression and, at the moment, I can't see life after her being anything but the same over again.

[Coidzor]

Gah... I want to strangle this situation. Or, an update.

First she tells him straight up that she's reconsidered and no, she still isn't ready to date him while inviting him home to meet her entire family over dinner. Also out of the blue announces she'll never have sex before marriage when the question of sex never came up and is a moot point. Then she reveals part of it is because she feels she gets enough emotional closure from her family.

While her family is throwing themselves at him in the sort of reception that's so positive and welcoming in that pseudo welcome to the family kind of way it would be bordering on creepy or possibly would be creepy for anyone who didn't have our particular set of tolerance built up against being creeped out. Still, definitely odd, since it was a combination of the "Thank the 12 gods someone is willing to put up with our crazy daughter to date her, also we actually like the guy for some strange reason" and "Why aren't you two dating yet? Here, 6 year old little sister, make sure he has her personal number and her work number, little brothers adopt him as if he already were dating her and you liked the both of them."

The worst part is he seems to be fooling himself enough to think that she's too dumb and inept in regards to relationships and new to the world of people who aren't her family due to being homeschooled that she couldn't be leading him on because she doesn't know what that is or how to do it.

Perhaps most ominously of all, neither of us were ever going to come back to this town after we left (well, unless we somehow acquired the power with which to smite our enemies, in which case as God-Kings we probably would do something suitably nasty, but I digress) but he's since... revised his posture on the situation.

So, I guess what I'm trying to ask here is. How do I stop caring?

Malfunctioned:
First of all, M does have some feelings for me. I only really found this out due to my extremely maternal friend H, who I shall refer to here as I do in real-life. With the name Mum. The situation is essentially this, M has feelings for me but she's is quite apprehensive about the relationship thing due to both me being good friends with her ex J and due to the fact that me and her became quite close friends without really getting to know each other, which is actually true. So in short, she 'likes' me but isn't sure if she wants to be with me. Or at least that's what I've learnt from Mum.

How are you close friends without her knowing more than jack all about you? Also, I think this is the point where you actually woo if you want to woo her.


And then there's E. We've still been texting a hell of a lot. As in from 11 PM on thursday night until 2:50 AM friday and then continuing from about 10 AM on friday to half 1 on saturday. I would of texted more but I ran out of texts on my mobile contract. I really do like her and I'm pretty sure she reciprocates the feelings. She finishes her exams next week and we've planned to meet up after that for the wine she suggested before. No solid date set yet but it's up there. She is also extremely cynical, I may have mentioned that before but it really is something that I find oddly attractive.

Otherwise this chick seems like she'll at least give you a chance to make time with her for awhile.

[Umael]

This is going to be a difficult post.

I split up with my girlfriend yesterday.

You were dating her for four years. You're going to be a wreck.

I'm sorry, but there isn't a lot anyone CAN do except be there for you, help you as they can, and give you lots of time.



The specifics are probably not forum-friendly (if you want to know for any reason other than voyeurism, PM me) but basically boil down to "it's not you, it's me".

If you think it would help, PM me and I'll listen.



I don't really understand her reasoning, probably because it's not something rational. The problems that she says are the cause of it are not new and have been there for over four years.

If you go back and question it, it will make you question yourself and your actions and her. You said you could have gotten her to change her mind, but you didn't - so don't second-guess yourself. Give yourself time before questioning what happened?



What I want more than anything is for her to change her mind and decide she's made a terrible mistake- indeed I made her promise that if she does to let me know.

Okay, but don't pin your hopes on it. Consider it over and work through that rather than pine that you aren't getting back together.



I'm trying to be dignified and adult about it, but I also feel I've just let the most important thing in my life walk away without putting up a fight, and I want to throw myself on my knees and beg and plead for her to reconsider.

This is normal. Like you said, you were dating her for four years, and you still love her. From all indications, neither of you did anything wrong. She just felt that you two weren't compatible.



Obviously I'm too close to this to make much sense of it now, but I do just feel completely lost and alone in the dark. My life before her was a long catalogue- five years- of despair and depression and, at the moment, I can't see life after her being anything but the same over again.

It won't be.

She's still a part of your life as long as you remain friends, and she was there for four years. That's a significant amount of time to impact someone for the better. Plus there is always the (likely) chance you will find someone else.

It hurts, but you can get through this.

[Castaras]

This is going to be a difficult post.

I split up with my girlfriend yesterday. She initiated it, but I didn't really contest her decision- much as I wanted to- because even if I could have talked her out of it, it wouldn't have solved the underlying problems.

It's good that you can see this. This goes a long way to healing.


The specifics are probably not forum-friendly (if you want to know for any reason other than voyeurism, PM me) but basically boil down to "it's not you, it's me". It was about as amicable as a break-up gets, I suppose- we professed that we still loved each other, she said that she couldn't bear not to have me in her life, and we agreed to (at least try to) be friends. That didn't stop it being very upsetting.

Of course it's going to be upsetting. You went out for a long time, you loved each other very much, it's going to be painful on both sides.


I'm completely in pieces; everyone so far has told me that I'm coping with it very well, but this is just my putting on a brave face. The only reason I'm not in floods of tears is that I've gone past that point and out the other side. I feel completely emotionally dead; I can't summon up enthusiasm or amusement or even frustration about anything. The feeling reminds me of a couple of years ago when I was on antidepressants. I can feel nothing except the overriding pain and anguish. I know it's early days yet, but I think it still hasn't fully sunk in, the worst might still be to come, and I'm dreading it.

I fully understand what you are saying. It's exactly how I felt after breaking up with my ex. (And I initiated the breakup... :smallsigh:). It will pass, eventually. Until then, keep yourself occupied, delve deep into your work, and start up something new and different - I went and got obsessed with World of Warcraft for a bit, and that helped.

Also good to have lots of chocolate. Chocolate contains chemicals that increase happiness. Plus, chocolate is tasty. Treat yourself to some.



I don't really understand her reasoning, probably because it's not something rational. The problems that she says are the cause of it are not new and have been there for over four years. They bother me a little, but if I thought they were a serious problem I wouldn't still have been there- but it's her perception of how the problems affect me, and in turn, her, that seem to be the issue. Apart from anything else, I can't see how splitting up is going to make either of us happier. Certainly I can't see anything good about it at this stage.
*snip*
What I want more than anything is for her to change her mind and decide she's made a terrible mistake- indeed I made her promise that if she does to let me know. But when I listen to my head rather than my heart I can't see it happening. I don't know what to do- I'm trying to be dignified and adult about it, but I also feel I've just let the most important thing in my life walk away without putting up a fight, and I want to throw myself on my knees and beg and plead for her to reconsider. Every plan, hope, ambition that I've ever made or had for the rest of my life has featured her prominently; my whole existence has just been turned on its head.

Going back to someone you broke up with is normally a very bad thing. The previous undercurrents and problems will still be there, and may surface quite often. What's done is done, and - hard as it can be to accept - you have to move on.



Obviously I'm too close to this to make much sense of it now, but I do just feel completely lost and alone in the dark. My life before her was a long catalogue- five years- of despair and depression and, at the moment, I can't see life after her being anything but the same over again.

The only person that can make you truly happy is yourself. Yes, with her it was easier to feel happy. But think - with her, she showed you how good a person you are, how brilliant a person - brilliant enough to be loved by someone as amazing as her. That is you, and you are still that good person, with the traits and looks to sustain a relationship. That is enough reason to stay happy - because you're a good person.

If you think it's going to be doom and gloom for the rest of your life, it will be. You have to - hard as it is - to say to yourself "Yes, that episode in my life is over. It was good while it lasted. Now it is time to move on." You don't have to say it straight away - let the pain and tears bleed off, let the sadness of the breaking up fade so that you remember the memories of the good things that occurred. It will happen - eventually. How long it takes you to heal is unknown to anyone - even yourself.

Don't be too hard on yourself, treat yourself to some fun - even if you don't feel like it - and take my *HUGS* with you as a keepsake. :smallsmile:

All advice taken with a pinch of salt - just going off my own experiences. I like hyphens - a lot.

[Keld Denar]

Splitting with someone is hard, especially after a long time. My advise, short-term find something to distract yourself from it. Talk to her, and tell her you need a bit to seperate yourself from her. I know she split from you, but you need that time too. How long is very dependant on the person. Me? About a week was good after my last 1.5 year relationship, but I'm a very pragmatic person who doesn't put a lot of stock in grief. I wouldn't recommend more than a month though. Just give yourself some time away from her to allow the sting to fade. Even though she wants to maintain friendship, IMO, this is bad for both of you. It inhibits recovery to a MASSIVE degree.

Once thats past, then you can reconnect with her and become friends. Chances are you'll remain fast friends for a while, but then it will fade. This is how things have gone with a few of my exes. Eventually, people more on, meet other people, those people take op more and more time, and your role as "best friend" or whatever fades, and what you are left with is a fond memory that will hopefully stay with you forever.

What you need to do is grow. Build upon the confidence you learned with her. You are a great person, and definitely desireable/datable. Be picky, date around. Find the prettiest girl you can and ask her out, you might be surprised. Its fun to have butterflies again and experience "firsts" again with new people. It'll happen in time. Its definitely not the end of the world.

[Syka]

I second taking a 'friendship' break. I've only known one long term relationship that was able to successfully transition back in to a friendship post-relationship. But they'd also been friends longer than they'd been together and took a couple months of very reduced contact. They aren't as close now, but they still count each other amongst their close friends (it's a "we don't hang out as much now, but we know we're there for each other).


Also, I got the same "wow, you're handling this so well!" after the implosion of my almost 3.5 year relationship. My secret? I handled it horribly. I threw myself in to school, my job, and my friendships. I refused to deal with it. I accepted it, but I didn't deal with it. I was very angry and upset for a long time. Because I kept my life normal, people assumed I was fine. I didn't let anyone see how upset I was. Even my MOM didn't know for a while how bad it was.

But on the other hand, his also kept me from breaking down. If I'd let myself do that I think it would have been worse (for me, anyway; for others it's better). If blocking off the emotions is how you deal with it, it's fine. As long as it is dealt with at some point, if it's done in a manner that keeps you from completely shutting down...I don't think it's bad. Just don't never deal with it.

Honestly...if you want to or need to talk, please PM me.

*hugs* You are strong and can do this; even though it will suck, you can.

[Dragonrider]

In short, I see everything wrong with homeschooling and attempting to coddle and cloister one's children away from the corrupting influences of the world in her.


The worst part is he seems to be fooling himself enough to think that she's too dumb and inept in regards to relationships and new to the world of people who aren't her family due to being homeschooled that she couldn't be leading him on because she doesn't know what that is or how to do it.

No stereotypes plz.

Homeschooled =/= coddled, socially inept, or naive.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

No stereotypes plz.

Homeschooled =/= coddled, socially inept, or naive.

Coid is only saying that's what his friend thought. Coid isn't perpetuating the stereotype, he's only saying his friend believes the stereotype.

[Dragonrider]

Coid is only saying that's what his friend thought. Coid isn't perpetuating the stereotype, he's only saying his friend believes the stereotype.

I was more referring to the first thing he said - again:


In short, I see everything wrong with homeschooling and attempting to coddle and cloister one's children away from the corrupting influences of the world in her.

[arguskos]

I was more referring to the first thing he said - again:
You are parsing wrong. Coid is saying that he sees everything that can go wrong in homeschooling and coddling one's children away from the world is exemplified in that individual. It is not a blanket condemnation of homeschooling, but more that everything possible that IS bad about homeschooling and other such behaviors is evident in that person.

[Eloi]

You are parsing wrong. Coid is saying that he sees everything that can go wrong in homeschooling and coddling one's children away from the world is exemplified in that individual. It is not a blanket condemnation of homeschooling, but more that everything possible that IS bad about homeschooling and other such behaviors is evident in that person.

How much socialization do most people do in school? Considering that a lot of schools (or at least he ones I've been to) have draconian policies on talking, no recesses (considering its Middle School-High School thats pretty understandable), and short lunches (30 minutes-1 hour). You don't get a lot of socialization at school.
What you do get a lot of socialization from is parks, playgrounds, gyms/places dedicated to sports, libraries, swimming pools, things like that. If you are sending your kid to school and depriving them of other socialization, they might be as bad or worse off as a homeschool'd child.

[Trellan]

How much socialization do most people do in school? Considering that a lot of schools (or at least he ones I've been to) have draconian policies on talking, no recesses (considering its Middle School-High School thats pretty understandable), and short lunches (30 minutes-1 hour). You don't get a lot of socialization at school.
What you do get a lot of socialization from is parks, playgrounds, gyms/places dedicated to sports, libraries, swimming pools, things like that. If you are sending your kid to school and depriving them of other socialization, they might be as bad or worse off as a homeschool'd child.

I gotta say that, at least in my school district, there was an insane amount of socialization going on at school. Sure, there might have been strict rules, but since when do kids follow rules? There was interaction between classes, during classes, during recess, and before/after school while waiting for buses and such stuff. Not to mention that existing within an environment governed by rules with multiple other people is an important social lesson as well, so even when I wasn't playing with my friends I was learning important behaviors. On top of that, most of my friends were made in school, and we then did things outside of school together. I'm not saying it's impossible to get those same interactions while home schooled - far from it really - I'm just saying that it's easier to miss out on those large-scale social lessons when your schooling is done in a solitary environment.

[Syka]

I can say there was also a fair amount of interaction. Not just between classes, but group projects before/after class during down times, the after school things, etc. The friends I am closest to now (C, M, Z, and to a now lesser extent K) I all met during middle or high school and that is where the majority of our interactions took place. Same with my secondary group; interactions out of school were limited for a variety of factors and if we hadn't gotten close in school, we wouldn't have maintained the friendships.

BUT, home schoolers can get this if their parent/teacher does it properly. C's nieces are home schooled, but they are part of a home school network and have regular interactions and 'classes' with other home schooled children.



Also...we got confirmation (after a week of curiosity due to a specific event that made us think this) that Z and the girlfriend-we-like are back together. :smallbiggrin:

[Force]

As a homeschooler, I can say that socialization (like most things homeschooling) is all about the effort that the homeschoolers in question put into it. Yes, you can use homeschooling to lock your kids away from the world. That's the bad kind of homeschooling and, unfortunately, the stereotype. However, the homeschool community where I live is very alive and well. If one chooses to be a part of the homeschooling community, one gets just as much socialization there as one would in a school. And, because homeschoolers tend to have more free time, we have plenty of opportunities to go outside the home environment to make relationships.

[Dragonrider]

Yeah, I may have misread Coidzor's post, probably in part due to touchiness on the subject, since I am sick of people I know saying that all homeschoolers are socially incapable (usually without realizing that I was homeschooled up till college - when they find out, they literally say, "But you're so normal!"). Sorry. :smalltongue: (I take as much issue as Coidzor does with certain brands of homeschooling. Unfortunately, all of us tend to be painted with the same brush.)

[Coidzor]

To clarify, most of my problem is that until the past year she's had relatives and others from her church for people she had any sort of regularity of contact. She even said as much herself. Even going so far as to say that's part of why she dealt so badly with people flirting with her, because before then she'd either dealt with old people or people who are related to her, being utterly unprepared for, say, a hormonally active, living heterosexual, available male below the age of 30 and above the age of 14.

She managed to make it to 19 without even having had anyone check her out before and was traumatized for a week afterward, even.

So that's part of it. (Another part of it is that she's playing the game while refusing to believe or acknowledge that she's doing it and both punishing and rewarding my friend for his actions. Somehow, it's even worse to see this sort of behavior done out of ignorance rather than out and out malice.)

The other part is that I do mistrust homeschooling in general anyway. Though I don't view them as quite the vile thing as child prodigies. :smallyuk:

[xPANCAKEx]

RE: "being friends" after a break

as a man going through it at the moment, i can vouch that it sucks.... DEFINATELY take time apart and make sure you're ready for it before trying to be friends

[Keld Denar]

So...on a scale of 1 to terribad, how bad an idea would it be for me to knock on the door of the cute single 20something indian girl who just moved next door from india 2 weeks ago and ask her over to help her "practice her english"?

[Superglucose]

So...on a scale of 1 to terribad, how bad an idea would it be for me to knock on the door of the cute single 20something indian girl who just moved next door from india 2 weeks ago and ask her over to help her "practice her english"?
Do it. Worst case scenario she'll think you're a creep, but then I would argue she's not worth it. To me, a girl who's a good match for me would see that invitation, laugh, and say something to the effect of "I'd rather get to know you better." Then again, I'm known to be rather wild and crazy and disinterested in social norms.



Also, I got the same "wow, you're handling this so well!" after the implosion of my almost 3.5 year relationship. My secret? I handled it horribly. I threw myself in to school, my job, and my friendships. I refused to deal with it. I accepted it, but I didn't deal with it. I was very angry and upset for a long time. Because I kept my life normal, people assumed I was fine. I didn't let anyone see how upset I was. Even my MOM didn't know for a while how bad it was.

That is what I did after my first breakup, which wasn't a 3.5 year long but still was horribly confusing and painful (it hit some of my basest insecurities and almost, but not quite, spiraled me into depression). I mean, I know why it happened and it wasn't because she broke up with me, it was the given reason why. Which turned out to be a lie.

Honestly I drowned myself in everything (which ended up being good for my school work) and then my dog died, so whenever people saw I was sad they thought, "Oh, it's because his dog died" (which is a huge part of it). Truth be told, only one person knew what was going on, but you're all sick of hearing about Meagan by now :smallwink: Speaking of which I finally called her which I should have done a long time ago. Voicemail. But just hearing her voice on the voicemail sent a flood of memories coming back.

[The Rose Dragon]

So...on a scale of 1 to terribad, how bad an idea would it be for me to knock on the door of the cute single 20something indian girl who just moved next door from india 2 weeks ago and ask her over to help her "practice her english"?

Her English might be better than yours, so be warned. You might appear condescending by assuming her English is poor.

Of course, if you have evidence that it is at least at an acceptably average level that it might need practice, then it might be less insulting.

((When we say "English", we actually mean "having sex", right?))

[Superglucose]

Or alternatively if she knows that it's a completely transparent attempt to spend more time with her. In my time, being strange, outlandish, and taking stupid chances has worked far more than looking for a "sure thing."

[Serpentine]

Bake some muffins and take them over as a "welcome to the neighbourhood".

Aedilred: Advice from all-too-personal experience.
- Give yourself space from her. Do the swap of stuff, and drop a line every now and then, but actively avoid contact.
- See people. Meet new people if you can.
- Do things. Organise outings and gatherings.
- Write your feelings down. If you feel like you need to say something to her, write it down instead. It can have the same therapeutic effect, and if you still want to tell it to her (which may or may not be ill-advised), go over and edit what you've written a few times, over several days, before saying it/giving it to her.
- Do things that you know make you happy.
- Make sure you sleep as well as you can and keep eating properly.

[Keld Denar]

((When we say "English", we actually mean "having sex", right?))

A little from column A, a little from column B...

I have spoken with her, briefly. Her english is ok, but not wonderful. She is smokin hot though! She looks kinda like Nazneen Contractor (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm748456704/nm1345890), the girl that Timmy was engaged to on Rules of Engagement...

She is a vegitarian, which probably makes her Hindu, right? I'm not an expert on indian customs, just indian food.

http://www.thundertreats.com/images/stories/nazneen4.jpg

[Superglucose]

She is possibly a Hindu if she is from India, but don't bank on that. Many Indians are just vegetarian because many Indians are vegetarian. Kind of like how most people I've met from Israel follow kosher, whether or not they practice any form of Judaism.

Really though why are you posting about it here? Go go go! :smallwink:

[Keld Denar]

Its 10:30 at night. We both work (I think, I know I do). Maybe tomorrow!

[Superglucose]

Its 10:30 at night. We both work (I think, I know I do). Definitely tomorrow!
Fixed it for you. If she's as hot as you say she is, don't wait.

[Quincunx]

Keld Denar: Indian culture can be more prudish than we're accustomed to--until you know the measure of her personality better, proceed with delicacy, restraint, and courtesy. Think 'gentlemanly' or the better part of 'good ol' boy'. Serp's got a great idea about bringing over snacks or nibbles and the metaphorical welcome basket.

On homeschooled children: If their social adjustment is so normal, why don't they notice they're pretty much vindicating the original opinion when they follow up any comment of "homeschooled shut-in" with "That Doesn't Apply To Me Personally So Stop Saying It You Ignoramus"? (Those of you who haven't posted such rebuttals: thank you, you've proven your point. 'Tis just the nature of the beast that it makes you all harder to be counted, though.)

Coidzor: I could say a lot, quite a lot both hopeful and bleak, but it'd be wasted air. Time and distance will do more than you or I ever could. Funny thing is, I don't know if time and distance will make them a couple or make them forget one another.

[Coidzor]

Yeah, you're right there, Quinx. Besides, I'm just whining, really. Mostly because I wish I didn't have both a front row seat and an emotional investment in the players involved. I can't utter a word elsewhere or I'd have the both of them eating me alive. :smallyuk:

[MountainKing]

Well, this is it. Today, at 5:35 PM Eastern, I "officially" depart on what could be my last ride. I was absurdly nervous last night; sometimes, I was having trouble packing. My hands kept shaking at points. Right now? I'm perfectly calm, experiencing no shaking. My stomach... honestly, feels okay. It's got the same feeling in it that I used to get just before the curtains opened during plays (plays I was acting in, of course). I can't decide if I'm actually okay now, or if I've freaked out so badly in my sleep that I came around the other side of the spectrum and back up to feeling okay. I have no idea.

All I know is, today, I leave to go see a friend I've wanted to meet for almost six years.

Somewhere, inside my head, I'm supposed to be scared, right? Nervous? Or is what I'm feeling normal? :smallconfused:

[Malfunctioned]

@MountainKing: To be honest I think that's pretty normal really, it's much better than being insanely nervous in any case. Good luck to you.



In other news I have decided that E is the most completely incomprehensible cynical, sarcastic closest-living-example-of-a-tsundere I have ever met. I have an odd taste in women.

EDIT:....And now she knows that I have feelings for her. And she remains in comprehensible, as her response to me asking if she was honestly trying to put me off was her saying "maybe" and her having no response to me asking whether she actually wanted to put me off.

[Superglucose]

Well, this is it. Today, at 5:35 PM Eastern, I "officially" depart on what could be my last ride. I was absurdly nervous last night; sometimes, I was having trouble packing. My hands kept shaking at points. Right now? I'm perfectly calm, experiencing no shaking. My stomach... honestly, feels okay. It's got the same feeling in it that I used to get just before the curtains opened during plays (plays I was acting in, of course). I can't decide if I'm actually okay now, or if I've freaked out so badly in my sleep that I came around the other side of the spectrum and back up to feeling okay. I have no idea.

All I know is, today, I leave to go see a friend I've wanted to meet for almost six years.

Somewhere, inside my head, I'm supposed to be scared, right? Nervous? Or is what I'm feeling normal? :smallconfused:
That... is normal.

I remember when my LDR flew out to spend the weekend with me. I remember freaking out on the way to the airport. I remember scanning the luggage area to try and find her. I remember being nervous... what if she didn't like me? What if she didn't like the way I looked (I mean, we'd seen pics of each other off course, but still!)?

Then I saw her, put my hand on her shoulder, and we didn't stop touching each other for like two hours. It was like a static build up, and as soon as I put my hand on her it all just rushed away.

[Serpentine]

It was like a static build up, and as soon as I put my hand on her it all just rushed away....and she was electrocuted. Sadly, she didn't make it v.v,

[MountainKing]

We've already agreed that the second I see her, we are so having a hug.

Now I'm scared I'll crush her to death. Dangit Serpentine. ;-;

EDIT: Naturally, I'm kidding. :smalltongue: Thanks you guys, it's a relief to know I've not gone crazier. :smallsmile:

[Eloi]

Hiiii relationships thread! *waves unintelligently*
I'll make this short: I have paranoia/nightmare induced insomnia, and I usually pass out of sleep deprivation instead of going to sleep voluntarily. However I sleep better when I'm with my girlfriend, I feel alot more secure. But the problem is that I doubt her parents, who are strict and paranoid people about her friends and personal life (they kind of hawk over her), would allow me to sleep with her on a fairly regular basis (or at all) or come over to her house that often. Oh, and neither my parent(s) or her parents know that we're in a romantic relationship, and probably wouldn't approve of it.
Thanks in advance.

[term1nally s1ck]

*big* teddy bear.

Not even kidding, I've heard of this problem repeatedly before.

If you could ask your gf to pick a big teddy bear and name him/her, it generally makes the person struggling to sleep secure enough that they can sleep.

[xPANCAKEx]

Hiiii relationships thread! *waves unintelligently*
I'll make this short: I have paranoia/nightmare induced insomnia, and I usually pass out of sleep deprivation instead of going to sleep voluntarily. However I sleep better when I'm with my girlfriend, I feel alot more secure. But the problem is that I doubt her parents, who are strict and paranoid people about her friends and personal life (they kind of hawk over her), would allow me to sleep with her on a fairly regular basis (or at all) or come over to her house that often. Oh, and neither my parent(s) or her parents know that we're in a romantic relationship, and probably wouldn't approve of it.
Thanks in advance.

firstly i'd seek some professional help for your insomnia - be it medicinal or psychological. Using your girlfriends company as a solution will put pressure on her in the situation whether you intend it or not. Also, if you end up using her company as the solution, then if things go to pot between you then you'll be back to square one

as for the situation itself - you kinda don't really have much of a choice in it the situation when you stay at her house. Its up to her as to whether she informs her parents of your relationships, and its up to them as to what form of hospitality they provide you. Going back to the first thing, if you deal with your insomnia on your own, then if you cant sleep in each others company at hers then at least its one less thing for you both to worry about in the situation

[Eloi]

*big* teddy bear.

Not even kidding, I've heard of this problem repeatedly before.

If you could ask your gf to pick a big teddy bear and name him/her, it generally makes the person struggling to sleep secure enough that they can sleep.
She already got me a big teddy bear (has a red bow, cream fur) for my birthday and named it Nikol (diminutive of 'Nikola'; pronounced 'Nicole'). I don't think its really helped me sleep much, tho'.


firstly i'd seek some professional help for your insomnia - be it medicinal or psychological.
Already having sessions with a therapist.

sing your girlfriends company as a solution will put pressure on her in the situation whether you intend it or not.
So like, even if she doesn't know I even have insomnia, it'd put pressure on her somehow? I'm kinda confused what you mean.

Also, if you end up using her company as the solution, then if things go to pot between you then you'll be back to square one
I think my sleeping would be the least of my worries in that event.

as for the situation itself - you kinda don't really have much of a choice in it the situation when you stay at her house. Its up to her as to whether she informs her parents of your relationships, and its up to them as to what form of hospitality they provide you.
True, but she could always come over to my house, I don't usually have people over so it didn't occur to me until you pointed that out. Tho' again, I'm not sure if they'd let her over here that much.

Going back to the first thing, if you deal with your insomnia on your own, then if you cant sleep in each others company at hers then at least its one less thing for you both to worry about in the situation
But I have no idea how to deal with it on my own. The aforementioned therapist has done little to help me sleep, and I really do have broader problems than not being able to sleep. I just feel a lot better when I'm with her in general, and its just I don't really have the ability to do that regularly , so I dunno, I just find it sad.

[skywalker]

I gotta say that, at least in my school district, there was an insane amount of socialization going on at school. Sure, there might have been strict rules, but since when do kids follow rules? There was interaction between classes, during classes, during recess, and before/after school while waiting for buses and such stuff. Not to mention that existing within an environment governed by rules with multiple other people is an important social lesson as well, so even when I wasn't playing with my friends I was learning important behaviors. On top of that, most of my friends were made in school, and we then did things outside of school together. I'm not saying it's impossible to get those same interactions while home schooled - far from it really - I'm just saying that it's easier to miss out on those large-scale social lessons when your schooling is done in a solitary environment.

I thirdly did a lot of socialization in school, almost exclusively.

Nobody actually studies during study hall, after all. Should be called "making out behind the bleachers and smoking pot in the dugout hall."

...

Wut? :smalltongue:

[Aedilred]

Thanks guys; that was actually pretty reassuring and helpful. It will probably become more helpful over the next few weeks, too, as the initial shock starts to wear off and I get more of a sense of perspective on things.

I seem to be oscillating between complete calm, sobbing helplessness and catatonic despondency. I sat in the park earlier with one of my old friends and discussed the whole matter for a couple of hours in a totally collected and pragmatic way, then got home and found an email from Her clarifying details for Thursday and nearly broke down in tears. My friends have so far been very supportive, though, as have my family, so I'm going to try to make the most of that while it lasts and before sympathy turns into frustration.

A couple of you may be getting PMs from me when I get a chance- maybe tomorrow or the day after- but thanks to all of you for the advice offered.

[Malfunctioned]

Thanks guys; that was actually pretty reassuring and helpful. It will probably become more helpful over the next few weeks, too, as the initial shock starts to wear off and I get more of a sense of perspective on things.

I seem to be oscillating between complete calm, sobbing helplessness and catatonic despondency. I sat in the park earlier with one of my old friends and discussed the whole matter for a couple of hours in a totally collected and pragmatic way, then got home and found an email from Her clarifying details for Thursday and nearly broke down in tears. My friends have so far been very supportive, though, as have my family, so I'm going to try to make the most of that while it lasts and before sympathy turns into frustration.

A couple of you may be getting PMs from me when I get a chance- maybe tomorrow or the day after- but thanks to all of you for the advice offered.
Just remember dude, we're here for you whenever. I've just been through something similar to what's happened to you and having the friends and family there really helps. Hopefully your situation won't turn out the way mine did but I came out of mine stronger and I'm sure the same will happen for you.

[Dragonrider]

On homeschooled children: If their social adjustment is so normal, why don't they notice they're pretty much vindicating the original opinion when they follow up any comment of "homeschooled shut-in" with "That Doesn't Apply To Me Personally So Stop Saying It You Ignoramus"? (Those of you who haven't posted such rebuttals: thank you, you've proven your point. 'Tis just the nature of the beast that it makes you all harder to be counted, though.)

:smallamused: I'm too socially awkward to understand what you're talking about.

[Superglucose]

I thirdly did a lot of socialization in school, almost exclusively.
Fourthed. From 4th grade on, if I didn't socialize at school I wouldn't have socialized at all. As much as I hate the American educational system (and man, do I hate it with a fiery passion) I'll still probably public school my kids because that experience is invaluable, and as much as you want it to be true, it's just something that can't be duplicated in homeschooling.

Not that homeschooling is wrong, mind! It has its advantages and disadvantages, and I am by no means saying people who are homeschooled can't be socialized or whatever.

@Quin, they're responding to being stereotyped as people who can't handle social situations. I think it's pretty normal to react to that with a "Hey! Cut that out!" whether or not you went to public school.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I often have to translate social hints for my homeschooled best friend, cause he wasn't used to them. Well, not anymore, as much, 'cause he's finally gotten used to being a social beast like me, but I used to.

[Dragonrider]

You know, I think it has as much to do with personality as anything. (This is on topic, right? Relationships, right? :smallbiggrin:) My third brother, who is thirteen, has never set foot in a classroom but is capable of becoming friends with anyone of any age, gender, or social standing. He is truly amazing to behold. It helps that he's quite good-looking (gonna have to watch out for him as he passes into teenagehood! :smallwink:) but he has this innate ability to carry out a conversation with every person that he meets; he has a huge cohort of friends his age, but he is also best friends with a 98-year-old woman who lives a couple blocks away.

I fully accept that I have been socially horrendous for periods of my life, but on the flip side, I know people who went all the way through public schools who are much, much worse than I have ever been.

I think a lot of the stereotypes (even if my brother defies them) come from the fact that homeschoolers tend to be relatively adept at conversation with adults, but that doesn't necessarily translate well to their peers. By the time people reach college-age, though, a lot of those gaps are easily bridgeable.

Again, relationships, right? :smallbiggrin:

[Superglucose]

I think what's fair to say is that public school (even private school) offers a much better opportunity for social interaction since, by definition, a child is in a class of 30 peers for seven hours in a day. That's an option that you just can't get when homeschooling (unless you have thirty kids :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek: or do some kind of multiple-family-school which would pretty much be the same as a private school).

It's kind of like everything else: practice helps you get better, and the more practice (in theory) the better you are, but there are some people who don't need as much practice to be good at it. Public school vs homeschool offers a better opportunity to practice the social aspect. Some people avail themselves of it, and some of those are going to be helpless and hopeless at it for their whole lives. Others don't.

[loopy]

Seems like a somewhat obvious question for someone as 'socially adept' as I'm meant to be, but eh.

I genuinely like a girl, which is interesting as it hasn't happened in a while. Picked her number up at a festival we were at a couple weeks back. Anyway, looks like I'm going clubbing with her/her friends this weekend.

Now, my question is:

How do I make it clear that I like the girl while (a) making a good impression with her friends and (b) not seeming clingy/all over her/whatever?

Blah, this is the exact reason I don't go to clubs to pick up! :smallyuk:

[Superglucose]

Be the loopy we all know and love. It's already pretty clear you like her, I'd wager... though remember to break the touch barrier! Touch her on the shoulder in the club to ask her (and by "ask" we mean "speak into her ear") if she'd like a drink or to dance or something. Try to include her in any conversation you're having. Above all, have fun!

[term1nally s1ck]

Seems like a somewhat obvious question for someone as 'socially adept' as I'm meant to be, but eh.

I genuinely like a girl, which is interesting as it hasn't happened in a while. Picked her number up at a festival we were at a couple weeks back. Anyway, looks like I'm going clubbing with her/her friends this weekend.

Now, my question is:

How do I make it clear that I like the girl while (a) making a good impression with her friends and (b) not seeming clingy/all over her/whatever?

Blah, this is the exact reason I don't go to clubs to pick up! :smallyuk:

Dance with her at least once or twice, physical contact, flirt a lot.

[cycoris]

I think what's fair to say is that public school (even private school) offers a much better opportunity for social interaction since, by definition, a child is in a class of 30 peers for seven hours in a day. That's an option that you just can't get when homeschooling (unless you have thirty kids :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek: or do some kind of multiple-family-school which would pretty much be the same as a private school).

It's kind of like everything else: practice helps you get better, and the more practice (in theory) the better you are, but there are some people who don't need as much practice to be good at it. Public school vs homeschool offers a better opportunity to practice the social aspect. Some people avail themselves of it, and some of those are going to be helpless and hopeless at it for their whole lives. Others don't.

Huhbuhguhwhat?!?!

If you're sitting quietly listening to a teacher bestow knowledge upon you, you're not interacting with your peers at all. Sure, you're sitting in the same room as a decent number of people your own age, but from what I understand, you're not supposed to socialise during class, you're supposed to listen to the teacher and quietly do your work and so on. :smallconfused:

[Superglucose]

Huhbuhguhwhat?!?!

If you're sitting quietly listening to a teacher bestow knowledge upon you, you're not interacting with your peers at all. Sure, you're sitting in the same room as a decent number of people your own age, but from what I understand, you're not supposed to socialise during class, you're supposed to listen to the teacher and quietly do your work and so on. :smallconfused:
Yeah. That's how it's supposed to work, but very often not how it actually works. Very many of my english courses were interactive, and I definitely remember a math class (it was the one I did the best in, pretty obviously) where instead of having the teacher teach us, we made a group of four people who figured it all out on our own, asking the teacher for help when we needed it.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Huhbuhguhwhat?!?!

If you're sitting quietly listening to a teacher bestow knowledge upon you, you're not interacting with your peers at all. Sure, you're sitting in the same room as a decent number of people your own age, but from what I understand, you're not supposed to socialise during class, you're supposed to listen to the teacher and quietly do your work and so on. :smallconfused:

See, I have never had a class like this. We always had class discussions, project, all sorts of things, and almost never had a straight "You kids sit down, and not say a word, I'm going to teach at you" session.

[Umael]

If you have the teacher up at the front just lecturing and making notes on a chalkboard, that's known as "chalk and talk", and it's not a very good way to teach. Yes, some students CAN learn that way, but a good teacher uses a variety of methods geared towards the student's capabilities. Interactive learning is just one of those possibilities.

[Coidzor]

Huhbuhguhwhat?!?!

If you're sitting quietly listening to a teacher bestow knowledge upon you, you're not interacting with your peers at all. Sure, you're sitting in the same room as a decent number of people your own age, but from what I understand, you're not supposed to socialise during class, you're supposed to listen to the teacher and quietly do your work and so on. :smallconfused:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. Oh you poor, naive dear.

[Dragonrider]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. Oh you poor, naive dear.

Dude, she grew up in China. She went to CHINESE SCHOOLS.

[Mando Knight]

Huhbuhguhwhat?!?!

If you're sitting quietly listening to a teacher bestow knowledge upon you, you're not interacting with your peers at all. Sure, you're sitting in the same room as a decent number of people your own age, but from what I understand, you're not supposed to socialise during class, you're supposed to listen to the teacher and quietly do your work and so on. :smallconfused:

Supposed to, but most American school teachers know it's impossible to expect students to stay quiet properly.

There's also always a few points in between classes where students always socialize...

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Dude, she grew up in China. She went to CHINESE SCHOOLS.

Cycoris grew up in China? The more you know...

[skywalker]

Huhbuhguhwhat?!?!

If you're sitting quietly listening to a teacher bestow knowledge upon you, you're not interacting with your peers at all. Sure, you're sitting in the same room as a decent number of people your own age, but from what I understand, you're not supposed to socialise during class, you're supposed to listen to the teacher and quietly do your work and so on. :smallconfused:

Like I said before, there's something called "study hall" that really ought to be called "making out behind the bleachers and smoking pot in the dugout hall." There are so many opportunities (in American schools at least) to socialize outside of class that whether you spend class doing study groups or "chalk and talk" is pretty moot. Study hall, lunch time, between classes, before and after school, etc, etc, etc.

For very accurate stats, my high school went from 8:25 to 3:30. We had 7 class periods that were 45 minutes each. We spent 20 minutes a day in assembly. That means that of 425 minutes spent in school each day, 335 were spent in class or assembly. That's only if you took 7 classes, which was highly discouraged/prohibited. That means that at least one of those 45 minute periods was spent in "study hall." As you can see, there's a massive amount of social time, even before accounting for "more social" classes, canceled classes, and other social benefits of going to school (dances, sports competitions, after-school clubs, etc, etc, etc).

Another thing to mention is that in the USA (and I'd suspect in other countries as well, considering that compared to some European countries we're very benign towards homeschooling), school is valued more for its aspects of socialization than what you actually learn, especially beyond a certain point. Surely, primary school skills have a huge impact on your life, but as far as high school is concerned, the socialization into American (or French, or German, national) culture is the driving force behind requiring school attendance.

[Serpentine]

Lets see... My high school was between about 8.56am* and 3.22pm*. People would start turning up from 8am and the last person would leave after 4. Recess went for, I think, 22* minutes, lunch for 42*. Year 11 and 12 had Free Periods (supposedly, but rarely, used for study). We had 2 minutes between classes to get to the new one. Few classes were always "sit down, shut up, listen/work or else" - one of those was run by Mr Burns (no joke), and he was generally despised. A lot of the time we'd be told "do this", and as long as we did that we could talk as much as we liked - often, we had to talk in order to do it. Even when it was just the teacher talking at us, they'd often ask us questions, and often other people could comment on the answer. Sometimes we even had full-blown arguments ("the girl who got gang raped and murdered in that story totally deserved it for dressing like a slut" :smallsigh:).

Yeah, high school is for social interaction.


*We had weird times...

[Coidzor]

Dude, she grew up in China. She went to CHINESE SCHOOLS.

And she knows Americans are very different from the Chinese. But, yes, she has my sympathies for that.

[Mando Knight]

Cycoris grew up in China? The more you know...

You didn't know that? It's been brought up who knows how many times all over Friendly Banter.

[The Rose Dragon]

Note that high school doesn't help you socialize if you simply don't want to. I went to a boarding high school, so I was there for four nights a week, with ample opportunities for off-class socializing (classes took a total of 6 hours a day, so you had 18 hours to do everything else with everyone else). I still mostly stuck to myself, because I'm that much of a loser.

Someone who wants to socialize with people will socialize with people, homeschooled or not. Someone who doesn't will grow up to be me.

[Serpentine]

I think the thing is it's easier to socialise at a normal school, and easier to avoid socialising when homeschooling. Sure, it's possible to avoid it at a normal school, and possible to do it when homeschooled, but when you average it all out, normal schoolers will overall be better socialised than homeschoolers. Unless there's an active homeschool socialising culture.

[Superglucose]

Most of my english classes were discussion.

I had ONE science class that was discussion. Needless to say, that was the greatest class I have ever had. AP Physics, Mr. Richardson. He had mastered the art of guiding students to the answer... I remember when we were talking about... ok I'll stop reminiscing. I learned so much and found a deep, unabiding love for physics.

Everyone who took that class did. It's where I discovered that deep in every human being there is an insatiable and unceasing curiosity and desire to learn. It's also where I discovered that it's amazing how the school system does a great job of squashing that desire.

@Serp, that's exactly what I was trying to say but apparently didn't get it across well :smallwink:

[The Rose Dragon]

Most of my friends in elementary and junior high were actually off-school. Just because there are more people to socialize with doesn't mean it's easier.

For one thing, 99% of them could turn out to be a-holes.

[Serpentine]

I'm talking averages, TRD. Your experience is not representative of the whole, and exceptions do not negate the rule.

[The Rose Dragon]

...Your experience is not representative of the whole...

What are you talking about? My experience is the only thing that matters! :smalltongue:

((Also, it wasn't 99% in my case. It was more like 20%. The point still stands.))

[Superglucose]

It may not be easy to socialize with someone, but that's how you get better at socialization period. Challenge builds us and makes us stronger... you don't get stronger by lifting 1lb weights all day, you get stronger by pushing yourself to the limit and doing things that are hard and challenging until they're no longer difficult.

[Mando Knight]

Unless there's an active homeschool socialising culture.
And if the parents are smart about homeschooling, they'll likely do research before starting their kids on such a program and realize that there usually is some kind of homeschool socialization group in the area. It's generally not as effective a system of socialization as sticking kids in a school, but it's still better than nothing. It can also help alleviate curricular weaknesses in the parents... there might be a parent in the group with a degree in English to help teach grammar and spelling, etc.
I learned so much and found a deep, unabiding love for physics.
So it was a temporary infatuation, or do you actually mean abiding? The latter means long-lasting and constant...

[Superglucose]

fine I mean abiding :smallwink:

In any case, I like the way my school system did "home schooling": there was an independent study program where your parent could get coursework (basically, the guidelines of "what we expect people to be able to do"), and if you registered with them you could sign your kids up for certain classes, like Band, the language classes, and especially the AP and honors classes.

In my opinion it's the best of both worlds: kids get to socialize and also get the advantages of personalized education.

[Castaras]

Very much at school it's the social aspect. At my current school (reaching end of second to last year - year 12), I have about 8 different classes. Without exception, it involves bantering with the teacher (One of my chemistry teacher's gets insulted by the kids in the class? He insults them back. Other chemistry teacher goes onto long tangents. One of my F maths teachers complains about her form to us and talks a lot also.)

Then after we get things to explained to us, or while we get things explained to us we talk with our classmates, or get into debates or talk about completely different things. Then there's the glory of free periods... working on work (occasionally) while in the sunshine talking to mates.

When I was younger, I never thought I'd say this but - I love school. And most of all, I love the social aspect of it. :smallbiggrin:

[Aedilred]

We did the stuff swap this evening. At first it was very awkward and difficult; considering we were used to being relatively tactile with each other during conversation, tip-toeing around each other, when each of us was obviously so upset, was tough. But once all the stuff was packed- and our relationship officially ended on Facebook (yeah, I know)- we sat down and had a chat. That was difficult too to start with, but there were a lot of things on both sides that we felt we could or should have said on Sunday, and it was obvious that neither of us was entirely happy with how things had been left. In particular, she had been feeling terribly guilty that she'd handled it badly, so I let her get started.

It got easier very quickly. It was still very upsetting, but there was obviously no bitterness or rancour on either side, and we were both (as far as I could tell) more honest with each other about how we felt than we'd really ever been before. Sure, there were regrets, but we dealt with them openly. We were both obviously upset that the relationship was finished, but we put it to bed in a relatively satisfactory manner. It was a reminder of how for four years I've been able to talk to her about anything, and that when it comes down to it we've been each other's best friends. If this is, as seems likely, the last word in our relationship, then I don't think it could have been much more amicable.

Of course, it's early days, and many of the things we've said to each other will be echoing round my head for a long time. In particular I wish- and she does too- that she'd tried to bring up and confront these issues when they first became a problem for her a few months ago rather than letting them linger until eventually she felt so trapped that she had to get out, but there's nothing that can be done about that now.

We're taking a break from each other for a couple of months. We didn't establish what would happen after that, except that we wouldn't rebuff contact out of hand and, if possible, we'd try to be friends. We both acknowledged that this would be difficult (for me more than her, I think), but that we have been such good friends for so long that it has to be worth a try at least. Mostly to rid myself of false hope, I asked for clarification on whether a romantic reconciliation was possible; probably not came the response.

It was difficult to bring myself to leave, and we could probably have talked for another couple of hours, but we'd said all the important stuff. It's just hard knowing that when the door closes behind you that's it, and that the person behind it is out of your life for at least the foreseeable future if not forever. I handled this rather better than her, in fact. Its having been earlier decided that hugs were inappropriate, we went for a handshake that she found it very difficult to let go of, and she was in floods of tears as I left her.

I've been so worried about this evening, but I'm really glad that I went over, and stayed for a conversation rather than just grabbing my gear and going. It'll be a long time before I'm over this, but I feel the healing process started today. I'm starting to accept the idea that life after, and without, her, is possible.

[cycoris]

And she knows Americans are very different from the Chinese. But, yes, she has my sympathies for that.

I was unaware that any discussion topic was assumed to only be about America unless stated otherwise. Forgive me. :smallsigh:

[Superglucose]

I was unaware that any discussion topic was assumed to only be about America unless stated otherwise. Forgive me. :smallsigh:
Well to be fair, I've heard that the scenario of "people not paying attention in class and actually talking" is pretty common in western europe and Canada as well.

Also, Australia is in Western Europe :smallwink::smalltongue:

[The Rose Dragon]

Well to be fair, I've heard that the scenario of "people not paying attention in class and actually talking" is pretty common in western europe and Canada as well.

In Eastern Europe as well. And in Turkey!

EDIT: I think the Western standard is more common around the world than the Chinese variant, actually.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I was unaware that any discussion topic was assumed to only be about America unless stated otherwise. Forgive me. :smallsigh:

Everyone always defaults to talking about their locality, often without mentioning what that locality IS. Also, the majority of people on this website are American, or at least the largest minority.

[Worira]

And a discussion of homeschooling, on an English-language forum, started by an American, can be pretty safely assumed not to be talking about homeschooling in China unless specifically mentioned as such.

[Jokasti]

I just ran out to the supermarket to pick up din~din for the family, and two girls that go to my school said Hi to me. :smallcool:

[Superglucose]

I like girls :smallbiggrin: Especially when they talk to me!

(which isn't all that often :smallfrown:)

(the above is a joke)

[term1nally s1ck]

I just ran out to the supermarket to pick up din~din for the family, and two girls that go to my school said Hi to me. :smallcool:

did you do more than say hi back?

[Jokasti]

Well, I said Hey.
But no.

[Superglucose]

Fail? Next time ask one of them out! Or both.

[The Rose Dragon]

Fail? Next time ask one of them out! Or both.

Preferably not at the same time, though it can work. It's just really unlikely to.

[term1nally s1ck]

Bah. Not even that much is required. Just go up and have a conversation. it's not hard to do.

Just as Super said, you need to exercise your social muscles. My personal favorite way of getting people over shyness is the Mall challenge.

Basically, you go to a mall for the day.

Every time you make eye contact with asomeone of the opposite sex, or see someone you find attractive/interesting, go say hello, and have a short conversation.

You're not going for dates, you're not going for the phone no., you're just having a quick conversation with a complete stranger. After that, starting a conversation with a girl is easy, and you can learn to progress things from there later.

EDIT: Yeah, I got 2 phone numbers at once once, and then went on a date with both at the same time. Was hilarious. they spent half the date trying to out-do each other with the flirting. I burst out laughing when one of them nibbled my ear a lil under the cover of whispering something to me, which I think annoyed her slightly...I only saw the other one of the two after that.

[Jokasti]

I'm not Austin Powers <.<
And I really have no inclination to date right now. Maybe when I'm in college.
I'm in a small town, so the Mall challenge fails when you know everyone and their sister, and their parents, and kitten Sonic.

[term1nally s1ck]

Then when you next have chance to go to a nearby bigger town, have a go. It's fun.

[Eloi]

I'm not Austin Powers <.<
And I really have no inclination to date right now. Maybe when I'm in college.
I'm in a small town, so the Mall challenge fails when you know everyone and their sister, and their parents, and kitten Sonic.

My dog* Mario growled at the kitten Sonic.

*Well, its a stuffed animal, but still

[Jokasti]

The next biggest city is the Capitol, too big. I usually only go there for LazerTag with the pals. Not old enough to hit the bars, so yeah. Don't think there are any malls there.

[Coidzor]

I was unaware that any discussion topic was assumed to only be about America unless stated otherwise. Forgive me. :smallsigh:

Oh, I do. I just like ribbing you. Mostly because it's been forever since we've actually talked and yadda yadda yadda.

I just figured since you knew that the three of us (that is, you, me, Dragonrider) are all currently living in the same state and all.

[Eloi]

I was unaware that any discussion topic was assumed to only be about America unless stated otherwise. Forgive me. :smallsigh:

I assume any discussion is about the great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, I mean what other European country is there? Well, besides Iceland, Sweden, Finland, Norway, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Portugal, Belarus, Georgia, Ukraine, Russia, Netherlands, Belgium, Hungary, Switzerland, Germany, I could go on. But besides all of those, the U.K. is probably the only one going to be discussed.

[Superglucose]

So bringing this back to relationships:

I found a very cute girl on facebook by complete accident. You see, the other day I met this cute blond girl who was cosplaying as Edward Elric (and anyone who knows me knows I love FMA) and didn't get her number (I was bowling with three other girls, actually, two of whom had begged me to come, full story printed elsewhere).

She and I have some interests in common, she has a cute pic (my profile pic is [ur=http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs293.ash1/22060_262929937129_707192129_3865392_3867914_n.jpg]this[/url] just because I like picking random pics, and the first picture of an earthrise just gets me every time), has red hair and blue eyes (mmmm +++)... let's just say the stars have aligned here.

Sent her a facebook message saying that I stumbled across her page, that we have similar interests, it was her hair that caught my eye (honesty is the best policy!) and that if she was in town and unbusy this summer that we should grab some ice cream.

*crosses fingers* it's not the ideal storybook meeting, but throwing out a line isn't ever a bad idea, right? Worst case scenario she thinks I'm a creeper and files a restraining order... hmmm... let's not think about that! Best case scenario I just started the process to making a new best friend, one that I can share some more sexytimes with.

Yes. Let's focus on the best case scenario for a change :smallwink:

[Lillith]

So on a good note, my bf showed me an article about 'nine signs that makes you know you found the one' and he said he counted 8 and the last was something we're working on. Which makes me happy he's confident in our relationship.

My problem though, I've been diagnosed a while with something which pretty much makes me emotionally unstable. Making me very susceptible to drama. Combine that with a habit of taking things the wrong way (either cause I take things literally a lot and English not being my first language) and I tend to explode. Funnily enough around 'that time' for women. Now I don't want to stay offline for a week every single time. My therapist actually said that with a specialized therapist I could even sort this out and learn coping mechanisms.

Thing is, that there's a waiting list for 6 weeks. I'd like to learn to be more stable before that time. So is there a way you guys can recommend to well... not blow up when something is not like I want it? I know it sounds selfish but that's what I'm trying to change. Or are there any ways I can express my dislike without making a whole bloody stage show? One thing I'll have you guys know is that try to keep the ball at my court so to speak. So I'm trying to pay attention to not say things like 'you always do this, you never do that, you keep doing stuff'. But that's pretty much the only 'rule' I discovered in fighting.

So I guess the things I'm looking for is how to keep myself calm when I become edgy and what are the rules of telling my dislike?

[Superglucose]

Well I think the first step is to recognize when you're losing control and just taking a step back. Saying, "Ok, I'm not sure I can control myself right now and this is important. So I'm going to go *over there* for a bit and calm down." You even have the built-in excuse of being diagnosed with something! (Seriously, EVERYONE should do this in their conversations.) Oh and be sure not to beat yourself up over it if you do lose control... that'll just make things worse. Recognize when you've made a mistake, admit the mistake, and work to correct it: in this case, the mistake would be blowing up over something that's not big, and correcting it would be first putting yourself in a situation where you can calm down.

Yeah it's damage control, but I promise you your boyfriend will appreciate it. A lot.

One good way to pre-empt these fights that I've discovered is to not have expectations. It sounds weird, but if you don't expect people to do anything, you won't be disappointed and everything will be a pleasant surprise. If you're not disappointed, it's harder to be angry.

Really the most I can say is that what you're talking about doing requires a very significant amount of self-discipline even without legitimate medical concerns. I wish you the best of luck.

[potatocubed]

Basically, you go to a mall for the day.

Every time you make eye contact with asomeone of the opposite sex, or see someone you find attractive/interesting, go say hello, and have a short conversation.

:smallconfused:

This sounds like a really good way to get ejected from a mall.

[xPANCAKEx]

Lillith

Every time you're about to take something in a negative manner, stop for a moment and ask "do they mean it in a certain way" - ask for clarification if neccessary. Your boyfriend wont mind the extra patience in explaining himself if it will help avoid an arguement

make sure when you ask for clarification you don't ask in a hostile manner, and as long as he know thats why you're asking (to avoid an arguement) then it shouldn't be a problem

[Syka]

Talk to your boyfriend about a safe word. No, really. When one of you says that (make sure it's not a trigger for you getting angrier), the fight is on hiatus until both parties have calmed down. You can try to get yourself under control, maybe go talk to a third party who could help. That sort of thing. This can also work by setting up a minimum time- say, 5 minutes. You have to wait 5 minutes before you respond to each other in order to collect your thoughts and not make it personal.


As for feeling out of control, the only thing that really helped me was changing my birth control. The dose of hormones I was on was way too high for my body to handle. By the same token, hormonal birth control may help you even out your mood swings if they occur around that certain period in your menstrual cycle. If you've noticed that's when it normally occurs...that would be a good thing to mention to the doctor. I had some bad PMS prior to going on the Pill, as well, and the low-dose versions have helped curb that. YMMV as everyone's body chemistry is different, but if there is a correlation...then it could work.

What also worked for me was warning my boyfriend. I could generally tell when I was getting in A Mood that I would have trouble controlling. So...I'd warn him. It helped him to not take it as seriously, and understand that if I was pissed...I wasn't really pissed at him, so instead of getting angry back he'd just try to comfort me instead. Surprisingly, this helped. It wasn't easy, since it took a toll on us both, but it was less of a toll than arguments.



*hugs* I know those sorts of mood swings aren't fun. I've been mood-swing free for about a year, but the couple of years where I dealt with them were horrendous. I hated myself for it because that wasn't me.

Edit: I'll be getting to my PM's...soon. Ish. It's been a crazy week with my sister being home and all.

[J.Gellert]

*crosses fingers* it's not the ideal storybook meeting, but throwing out a line isn't ever a bad idea, right? Worst case scenario she thinks I'm a creeper and files a restraining order... hmmm... let's not think about that! Best case scenario I just started the process to making a new best friend, one that I can share some more sexytimes with.

The first thing to remember about facebook is that this kind of thing is normal, and no one is going to file a restraining order (or, really, be surprised) after receiving something like that. So it's cool. Good luck :smallwink:

The second thing to remember is that cute girls with many friends can get 2-3 such messages daily, and will not even bother with most. So when you do send one, make sure you make it unique and interesting.

[Serpentine]

Glucose, if you jerk that other girl around even more, so help me I'll disown you!

[Syka]

Just a random question:

What are your thoughts on changing surnames after marriage? Typically it's the woman in a heterosexual relationship, but this can apply to either party.


Personally, I don't buy the whole "We're making a new family!" argument for taking the mans name. But I'm also not attached to my current surname. I've talked with Oz about this and we came to the conclusion that when/if we get married, we'd maybe take an entirely different name. Aside from that, I'm already planning to change my name to my great grandmothers maiden name because A. it sounds cool and B. it's closer to my Italian heritage. Thankfully, Oz likes said surname that I want to change to, so there is a chance he'd be 'technically' taking my name, lol. Most likely, though, I'll get my new surname of my own and he'll keep his.

tl;dr: It's up to the person, but I'd rather change both our surnames to something different, if we're set on changing surnames.

[Pheehelm]

I wasn't really pissed at him, so instead of getting angry back he'd just try to comfort me instead. Surprisingly, this helped. It wasn't easy, since it took a toll on us both, but it was less of a toll than arguments.On that note, any tips for those people on the other side of the mood swings?

[Kaiser Omnik]

tl;dr: It's up to the person, but I'd rather change both our surnames to something different, if we're set on changing surnames.

I guess it just makes it harder for those Genealogy people hehe.

[Coidzor]

I don't really care and as such would just default to tradition unless she brought it up. And let's face it, that's generally the way of it.

Which in my family's case would be the woman taking an additional last name on at the end. At least from what I've gathered it's usually a complete replacement job.

It'd have to be a suitably awesome last name on her end for me to even consider attaching it to my own, of course. Something like Fink in the case of one of my ex's mother's maiden name would be right out.

[Syka]

On that note, any tips for those people on the other side of the mood swings?

Just nod and make conciliatory noises "Mhmm" and such, particularly if it is a non-directional rant (ie, at something other than you). Reason, even if the person is normally very reasonable, is...pretty much useless.

Also talk with the mood-swinger in question. Everyone deals with it differently. When I feel the moods goin' a-crazy, I give Oz (and my family members, lol) the option of my just hiding until the mood subsides. You may be able to work something like that out. If you decide to slog through, though, just avoid arguing.

I know Oz will stick it out in silence and then teases me mercilessly afterwards about being crazy. :smallwink: It ends up lightening the mood later. This only works if your partner normally has a good sense of humor, though, and the moods are constant. Mine were very transient and periodic (20 minute or so spurts a few times a day for about 3 days right before my period), so this may not work for someone whose moods swing wildly on a regular basis.

[Coidzor]

Mine were very transient and periodic (20 minute or so spurts a few times a day for about 3 days right before my period), so this may not work for someone whose moods swing wildly on a regular basis.

Well, no, because someone like that and acting like that is basically blurring the line between being a mood-swingy git and abusive. :smalltongue:

[Phaedra]

Just a random question:

What are your thoughts on changing surnames after marriage? Typically it's the woman in a heterosexual relationship, but this can apply to either party.




I'm planning to keep my own name if I ever get married, but that's mostly just because I'm planning to go into academia and don't want to mess up my reputation and publication list by changing name after a few years. :smallwink:

I don't really have any strong feelings on name changes really. I like my name and changing it wouldn't gain me anything, but if people want to, go for it, I suppose.

[Umael]

Surname changes: Talk. Communicate. Resolve.

Some are "traditional" and both take the man's name.
Some go for female empowerment and take the woman's name.
Some decide to hyphennate both of their names - or just one.
Some don't bother having them changed at all.
Some even take a different (random) name.

It's all good, so long as all parties involved are happy with it.

[skywalker]

I was unaware that any discussion topic was assumed to only be about America unless stated otherwise. Forgive me. :smallsigh:

To be fair, while we made not specification that we were talking about an American schooling experience, you made no clarification either. Since we were all talking about American schooling, it might have been helpful to mention that your experience might differ due to location, eh?


What are your thoughts on changing surnames after marriage? Typically it's the woman in a heterosexual relationship, but this can apply to either party.

It's strange, but I think I would find it shocking if my wife didn't take my name. I know that's silly, and not particularly egalitarian, but it would seem weird to me. I would at least want my name hyphenated in. I dunno. It's not driven by possessiveness or anything like that... Taking my name is just what marriage typically entails to me.

I've never thought about an entirely new name, or taking the female's name... My gut reaction is that I couldn't surrender my sense of self to someone else, but then why would I expect that of my spouse? After some consideration, I also usually wouldn't surrender myself to another person's wishes in the way that marriage entails, so I suppose it would already be a step outside my usual boundaries.

I know one reason I prefer having a same last name (regardless of which one you choose) is because children should "belong" to both parents, not just the one they have the name of.

I will have to consider this matter further.

[J.Gellert]

I'd take my wife's surname if it's better than mine. Greek surnames are often funny. I'm not at all attached to mine :smalltongue:

[Lord Loss]

Am I Imagining things...

Does anyone remember how I like some girl who's afraid/mistrusting of guys? Well, I got to know her and, instead of being very shy around me and any other guy like the first few times I saw her, she repetitively sat beside me instead of other girls. With any other girl, I wouldn't think much of it, but she has a reputation for fleeing from guys. Am I imagining things? I think so. Still, posting in case I'm not. (Now I feel stupid :smallfrown:).

[Superglucose]

What are your thoughts on changing surnames after marriage? Typically it's the woman in a heterosexual relationship, but this can apply to either party.
I would be honored if my wife chose to take my name. I would also not be disappointed or unhappy if she didn't want to. I think it's a crying shame that we don't get to pick our own names... why are we given names at birth, many times before birth? No one can possibly know who we are before we're even born.

That being said, my first daughter's name is already picked out :smallbiggrin::smallwink:



The second thing to remember is that cute girls with many friends can get 2-3 such messages daily, and will not even bother with most. So when you do send one, make sure you make it unique and interesting.
I like to think I'm very unique and interesting. Even if just from the standpoint of writing talent, I'm head and shoulders above the rest of the chumps I know (ok, ok... "friends" :smallwink:) but I have the kind of fun-loving attitude of "Let's go do something!" "What do you have in mind?" "I dunno... something!" that really makes for some fun adventures.

Right now, I'd settle for a girl to take a walk around the park with looking at trees and flowers and making an ideal dream garden. I'm thinking a mature valley oak surrounded by lots of sage...

Though I will be honest and admit I don't hold much hope for her responding.

Also the girl I liked from work? She was fired for showing up to work drunk! Glad I avoided that :smallwink:

[Mando Knight]

I think it's a crying shame that we don't get to pick our own names... why are we given names at birth, many times before birth? No one can possibly know who we are before we're even born.

How can you know who you are if you don't have a name at all? A given name and a family name tell you who you are as much as any other set of names you could give yourself. A chosen name tells you a little about yourself as you were when you chose the name, but a given name tells you about yourself and your family: who you are to those who gave you the name, and who your family is.

I'm not opposed to adding titles or names to your own to remember or show who you've become, so long as you do not forget or reject yourself by throwing away your old name. A wife who takes her husband's name usually doesn't forget or throw away her maiden name, but she does use the new one because that is who she has become. The old name is remembered as who she was, the new name is used as it is who she is.

But, y'know, that's just my opinion on the matter.

[Coidzor]

Am I Imagining things...

Does anyone remember how I like some girl who's afraid/mistrusting of guys? Well, I got to know her and, instead of being very shy around me and any other guy like the first few times I saw her, she repetitively sat beside me instead of other girls. With any other girl, I wouldn't think much of it, but she has a reputation for fleeing from guys. Am I imagining things? I think so. Still, posting in case I'm not. (Now I feel stupid :smallfrown:).

That sounds like a fairly clear indication that she's comfortable with you. Especially if she's seeking you out rather than merely tolerating your presence.

[Dragonrider]

Oh surnames: I hate my last name. Assuming I get married, I will probably take my husband's name, because I feel little attachment to the one I have (as much as I love my family). If the new name is worse, or if it clashes with the name I already have, I will probably just change mine to something else (a la Syka).

[Serpentine]

Just a random question:

What are your thoughts on changing surnames after marriage? Typically it's the woman in a heterosexual relationship, but this can apply to either party.Eh. Six to one, half dozen to the other. I'm probably coming from a funny angle, though - my mother didn't change her name at all for professional reasons (even though my birth certificate says it's different. Also it doesn't record her job :smallannoyed:), and my sister probably will never get married at all.
For me, it probably depends on his last name. I might keep my surname in addition to his (5 names, woo!), but on the other hand I already have my mother's surname as a middle name, so I probably wouldn't be losing much by swapping out mine.
I was thinking about this with my kids recently, though. I think I'd do the same thing as I have - one parent's surname as a middle name, the other as a surname. I was thinking that I'd switch them around for each child. That might be dumb, though. Maybe instead I'll say that whoever's surname is a middle name gets to choose the other middle name...

[Quincunx]

Too much boopin' bureaucracy, that's my thought on it, that and it would/will require me to relinquish my death grip on my only home-country-valid form of I.D. Maybe it's less of a pain if you only have to deal with one country's rules on the matter at a time, or a more up-to-date country's universal rules of renaming instead of the rules of marriage chattel which assume she will take his name at the time of the wedding and you have to petition out of the arrangement, but however the pain is dealt I'm feeling no benefit or loss, not even in shedding a surname that's already got overtones of crazy cat lady (which is not, I might add, my fault). It means something to my husband though, filed under the same mental category as what main dishes require boiled potatoes, the relative significance of holidays, and other subtle cultural distinctions I do not see until my nose is rubbed in them--not an issue of identity or love, but of propriety. All the same, it does show that a Wife exists in his head which does not exist in mine, overlapping a stack of Quincunxes, like a blurry 3-D image.

[Coidzor]

So, wait. Your married state doesn't occupy a place in your mind like some sort of on/off switch in one of the corners? Or you don't have a specific identity you associate with Quincunx, the wife of XY?

[Quincunx]

Oh, there's at least three or four phases of "married" in that stack, but none of those have come with the 'hostessing, name-has-been-changed, and holiday awareness' skill set.

[Coidzor]

Oh, there's at least three or four phases of "married" in that stack, but none of those have come with the 'hostessing, name-has-been-changed, and holiday awareness' skill set.

Huh. One'd think that'd be known and dispelled that it was not gonna happen well before marriage was on the table. :smallconfused: Guess it could never really come up though...

Sorta weird thinking about cultural hospitality, come to think of it.

[Form]

There is an issue I need help with. I wish I could handle it all by myself, but I feel I need someone's else advice.

I am a loner. I have been so for over 22 years now with no close friends and I’ve never had a significant other. There are some folks I talk to on a regular basis and little group I see on a fairly regular basis, but I still feel like an outsider. I seem to be unable to get close to people and unable to connect with them. In the past I’ve always managed to ignore it simply by keeping myself distracted, but that is just running away from the problem rather than solving it. The realization is depressing, but I must deal with it in a better way than I have in the past.

I want to finally find myself a girlfriend and there is a girl at work I am genuinely interested in, but I do not know if it is a good idea to do so whilst I still am like this. She seems like a fairly shy person, though I can’t really tell since I hardly know her. I have spoken to her a few times, but always only briefly and these days I only see her on occasion when passing through the hall. I am thinking of simply asking her to lunch or for coffee at the workplace one of these days, but I am unsure whether I should or what to do afterwards should she even agree.

Another thing that concerns me is that I’ve asked another girl out a little while back, also at the workplace. She wasn’t interested and that’s fine, but I’m worried whether it would be appropriate to make a move on another girl at work. I don’t want to be some creep who’s always hitting on his colleagues.

All of this is absolutely terrifying to me. I’ve only asked a girl out once in my life, I am entirely incompetent at flirting, I have no idea whether she’d be even remotely interested and I have no experience with any of this whatsoever. Should I just ask her for lunch one of the next days? Should I wait? Or should I just leave things be?

My concerns probably look very silly to all of you, but I just don’t have a clue. I don’t want to live the rest of my life in effective solitude and I know I have to do something, but I don’t know what and could use an outside observer.

[Serpentine]

Eh, I think at least, if you think you'd like her, you should talk to her and hang out. You don't have to - and it's not necessarily a good idea to - go in seeking a girlfriend. Just get to know her better. Make a friend. It might help your social skills in general, and if you end up with a girlfriend, bonus.

[skywalker]

Huh. One'd think that'd be known and dispelled that it was not gonna happen well before marriage was on the table. :smallconfused: Guess it could never really come up though...

Sorta weird thinking about cultural hospitality, come to think of it.

I think the main point is that his perception of her (or what she ought be) is not quite coterminous with her perception of her, both of which may or may not approximate the "real Quincunx." I think that's right.

[loopy]

Clubbing with the girl I mentioned last post went well, though I had to leave early due to work the next day.

Now all I have to do is stop teasing her quite so much. Seriously, can't help it, its a problem. :smalltongue:

[term1nally s1ck]

Boys of 10 and under tease the girls they like. This never really seems to stop. I take the mick out of every girl I meet, and the more I'm attracted to them, or the closer we are, the more I tease. Never caused a problem yet :smalltongue:

[loopy]

Boys of 10 and under tease the girls they like. This never really seems to stop. I take the mick out of every girl I meet, and the more I'm attracted to them, or the closer we are, the more I tease. Never caused a problem yet :smalltongue:

True enough, and its my normal modus operandi as well, but after a certain point the teasing hits a point where its: "Hey, I like you! Pay attention to meeeee!"

Just gotta stop it from going that far, haha.

[Superglucose]

Boys of 10 and under tease the girls they like. This never really seems to stop. I take the mick out of every girl I meet, and the more I'm attracted to them, or the closer we are, the more I tease. Never caused a problem yet :smalltongue:
That's part of my hypothesis on growing up, specifically, that we never grow up and just over time grow more cynical and forget what fun is :smallwink:

[xPANCAKEx]

True enough, and its my normal modus operandi as well, but after a certain point the teasing hits a point where its: "Hey, I like you! Pay attention to meeeee!"

Just gotta stop it from going that far, haha.

good sir

i reccommend a strategem of not only teasing her, but large quantities of teasing other people - that way shes not the sole focus of your attention, and also she can feel she can have fun and laugh in your presence

[Superglucose]

Awww... nuts.

So my buddies and I went to the XKCD meet today, I got something signed by Randall Monroe, which was cool (XKCD 0 SP 1, which is quite brilliant by the way), met some people from around the world, etc. We played a game of Mafia which was mostly charactarized by me making friends by going, "IT WAS IONDRAGON" only substituting his real name.

After the initial festivities had died down and it was reduced to people waiting in line for Monroe's autograph (which I got later), this really cute asian girl named Kim started congregating near the bread and cheese area (by the way, minuet cheese is FANTASTIC on bagels as well as sourdough). We (Ion and myself) started giving her some cheese as everyone talked about just... stuff.

She left to go get her autograph, and afterwords came back over to where we were to say goodbye to me. As she was leaving she patted me on the shoulder and left.

I am also the biggest idiot on the face of the planet.

*sigh* instead of calling her tomorrow and arranging a second meetup (one of a more private nature) I will be sitting at home playing a video game and preparing for my all-store meeting. Oh well, maybe I'll run into one of her friends on IRC/XKCD fora and they'll help me get in touch with her.

[term1nally s1ck]

....yeah, I've been there. Not a fun feeling, but there's always another opportunity.

[Jack Squat]

I'm seeking a little bit different advice than normal. How do I get people to stop being interested in me? I'm currently seeing someone, and I've been asked out 3 times in the past week, and had another two girls admit to having a crush on me. While the ego boost is nice, and the offers would have been entertained a month ago, I'd rather not have this be a (more) common occurrence.

[term1nally s1ck]

Well known phenomenon, unfortunately. The natural confidence boost and comfortableness with yourself that comes with a relationship tends to increase your attractiveness. No known way of preventing it, unfortunately.

[Dornath]

I've got what I assume is a common issue.

I've been with my girlfriend for a few months, and we're pretty close. Coming up on the last year of highschool together. Because I took a year off to go on a foreign exchange, I'm 18 where she is 16 (Turning 17 in december, my birthday is in february).

She has told me that while she IS attracted to me, she doesn't want to be physical beyond making out. The problem is here. I feel, due to my paranoia, that it's because she doesn't actually find me attractive.

Does anyone have any advice on how to NOT be paranoid?

PM for more details if you need them.

[Lillith]

@ Dornath: It doesn't have to be anything about if she's attracted to you or not. I remember from personal experience that anything past making out was extremely terrifying for me. Though that was more or less because I have intimacy issues, but the thing is, some girls are maybe not ready at that age. Or she wants to wait till marriage. Maybe she is kind of scared of it. There are a lot of reasons why she might not want to go further that have nothing to do with you or if she's attracted to you. Hell with my current boyfriend I am absolutely attracted to him but dear Lord the intimacy thing was and still is a big problem for me. While hell I won't be able to keep my hands off him if I see him. Anyways, long story short, don't be paranoid. It's not uncommon for girls here age to not be ready yet. Give her time. :smallwink:

[Jack Squat]

Well known phenomenon, unfortunately. The natural confidence boost and comfortableness with yourself that comes with a relationship tends to increase your attractiveness. No known way of preventing it, unfortunately.

My confidence level and comfortability with myself hasn't changed. If it'd have been any higher when I was single, I'd have been jumping off buildings, convinced I was Superman :smalltongue:

Really though, this has been happening before I started seeing the girl I am (not really a true relationship yet as neither of us have the time to commit), just not at this past frequency - maybe every other week or so. It's only now that it's become (more or less) unwanted. Helps that recently a good number of them have been fairly underage too...(16, I'm 21)

[Keld Denar]

Update: I screwed up the courage to go talk to the cute indian chick next door. Her name is Laxmi. She works for Boeing as an engineer! I'm an engineer too! She was cooking when I went over there to talk to her, so she gave me some! Its califlower and potatoes with indian spices. I'll try it in a bit. I asked if she liked to go hiking, and she said yes, so I offered to take her into the Olympic National Park some time soon. Fun fun fun!

Probably should wait a bit before I take her to the hotspings over there. Its kinda a clothing optional place...

[Superglucose]

Flawless victory! Congratulations, my friend!

[Trellan]

I second the congrats Keld; it's nice to hear of things going well. You gotta keep us updated about how the hike goes :smallbiggrin:

[term1nally s1ck]

My confidence level and comfortability with myself hasn't changed. If it'd have been any higher when I was single, I'd have been jumping off buildings, convinced I was Superman :smalltongue:

Really though, this has been happening before I started seeing the girl I am (not really a true relationship yet as neither of us have the time to commit), just not at this past frequency - maybe every other week or so. It's only now that it's become (more or less) unwanted. Helps that recently a good number of them have been fairly underage too...(16, I'm 21)

Hm. Ok, how about this. Wear a VERY risque t-shirt. Like the "I f- on the first date" ones.

Seriously, same thing happened to me. I'm naturally confident and outgoing anyway, but still there was some signal they were picking up on. I never solved it. I think it's that you don't appear interested, which intrigues them and makes you seem like a challenge.