Relationship Woes and Advice: The Thirteenth Woerier

[tomandtish]

Just a random question:

What are your thoughts on changing surnames after marriage? Typically it's the woman in a heterosexual relationship, but this can apply to either party.


Personally, I don't buy the whole "We're making a new family!" argument for taking the mans name. But I'm also not attached to my current surname. I've talked with Oz about this and we came to the conclusion that when/if we get married, we'd maybe take an entirely different name. Aside from that, I'm already planning to change my name to my great grandmothers maiden name because A. it sounds cool and B. it's closer to my Italian heritage. Thankfully, Oz likes said surname that I want to change to, so there is a chance he'd be 'technically' taking my name, lol. Most likely, though, I'll get my new surname of my own and he'll keep his.

tl;dr: It's up to the person, but I'd rather change both our surnames to something different, if we're set on changing surnames.

We both took the hyphenated name when we got married (my wife prefers to stay internet anonymous so I won't list the real ones), but she was a "Smith" and I was a "Doe" and now we are both "Smith-Doe". No problems so far (although it took 5 years before one of my very conservative grandmothers accepted it).

[Superglucose]

Operation: Reconnect with Meagan is away in full force. I got in contact with a mutual friend (and forgot how much I miss hanging out with my old high school buddies in the meantime... also this girl is hot and she just got back from a 19 day trip down the Grand Canyon... I mean AWESOME?! or what?) who is working on procuring her address for me so I can send a letter.

Honestly that just makes me feel more like there are forces at work beyond my control... because the first message that I received was "It's right on her facebook page, but I don't think that address is right so I'll go check for you."

This girl is smart (is studying physics at Brown smart), so she probably made the connection of me not having access to Meagan's facebook profile (especially since our communiques are via facebook) and said she'd look into it as quickly as possible. She probably has a very good clue as to what's going on.

I also happen to know (from being friends with her during High School) that she understands me. Like, I've never had to explain why I did something or what I was thinking, because she understood where I was coming from immediately.

Since about last fall (when my at-the-time gf visited me and we spent an entire night talking about this) it's slowly feeling more and more like everyone who knows us has been slowly working on pushing us together. Seriously, when Rachel and I broke up, my best friend Steffy said, "I always thought you and Meagan would make a great couple." That was years ago.

That being said, I am not going to put my life on hold because something might possibly begin to work out. I'll still be doing my normal life thing and procuring numbers. Just... hopefully I'll be able to delete all of them in a month or two :smallsmile:

*crosses his fingers*

Seriously. Meagan is the only reason I rescinded my old policy of "never date close friends." I want this to work out very much. It may not, but then again it might. Right now it comes down to whether or not I'm right, and whether or not I'm too late. I hope the answers are "Yes" and "No" and precisely in that order.

[Quincunx]

Jack Squat et alia: There's a period right after you get into a relationship but before you cultivate an air of being 'taken' or 'part of a couple' and it's like chum in the water to good yet single people. You can project the relationship by dragging along the stepladder and bullhorn (http://www.xkcd.org/684/), but that's annoying and doesn't exactly fix the disconnect. What you have to do is consciously change what you're projecting from "by myself and happy with myself" to "in a relationship, please don't ask".

[xPANCAKEx]

Jack Squat

don't sweat it - it dies down eventually. Sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes it never completely stops, but as long as it doesn't make your other half unhappy, and you handle it in a polite/mature way then no-harm-no-foul really

[onthetown]

This has been driving me crazy:

I've just started going out with this amazing guy. We've been best friends for five years, he's actually my DM, and we're almost completely happy together. He adores me and it's been killing him to watch me go through abusive relationships over the years, so he's determined to make me as happy as possible.

The problem is that I have been in a lot of abusive relationships, either with boyfriends or fathers or other men in my life or even just friends. It's my last boyfriend that's driving a stake between us. He would lie to me about illegal stuff he was doing, try to pressure me into sex with open-ended threats ("I don't know how much longer I can wait," and when asked if that meant he would cheat on me, "I don't know, I just can't wait anymore"), make up stories about how he had to leave early or how he couldn't hang out, ignored me for a week or more at a time, and the piece de resistance: he had been sleeping with my other ex for the entire time we had been going out and for years before we had ever met. My father was very physically and emotionally abusive toward me while I was growing up (nothing like sexual abuse, he was just very, very rough with me when he found out he was a schizophrenic alcoholic and I was a pretty small kid, but we've sort of made up now) and my step-father is currently very emotionally abusive toward me. My other ex was just a moron and was playing me. All of my friends (most of them are guys) have ditched me or stopped talking to me over the years so they could be nasty to me to appease their new friends. Needless to say, I don't trust people but I especially distrust men.

I am desperately trying to get over my last boyfriend (the one who was sleeping with my other ex) so that I can trust this guy. He's wonderful and patient and not without baggage of his own, but we try to work through all that. But every time he says he's busy one day and can't hang out, or says he has to leave early, it makes me wonder if there's something else going on. I had actually started falling in love with him/got a crush on him several months before the last boyfriend and I broke up, but I thought it was just because of how I was being treated and I really wanted somebody who actually loved me; now I've been going out with this guy for a few months and I know that I love him because I just love him.

The problem, obviously, is me. But I don't know how to get over all of this. I'm scared it's going to drive him away.

[J.Gellert]

He adores me and it's been killing him to watch me go through abusive relationships over the years, so he's determined to make me as happy as possible.

First of all, congratulations, very few people realize such things. We often push away those that try to help us.

I might have said "if you've been in such relationships, and didn't realize it until they were over, how can you tell that now it's different?". However, you seem to acknowledge that you did have some abusive relationships, so at least you know what the problem is.

Some people are just busy. That doesn't mean they don't care. Don't consider it a bad thing unless many more clouds are gathered.

Try to look for other warning signs, or compare this relationship and past ones. It's hard to do objectively, but you might spot things you hadn't before. Alternatively, if you find none, then you will have an easier time calming yourself and trusting someone. Then at least you will know you have trust issues and acknowledging such personal problems really is half the solution. If it comes to that, you can even talk this over with the guy.

Still, the cynic in me wants to say "don't trust anyone, ever" but I'll just say "don't trust anyone until they earn it".

At least keep in mind that if he really cares, he won't be driven away easily.

[Syka]

onthetown, ouch. :smalleek: I read the post before you changed it and just wow.

The best advice I can give you is to be open with him. Maybe let him know when you are getting worried, but add that you KNOW it's nothing he's doing; you just need reassurance. You'd be surprised how much keeping the lines of communication open in such a manner can help. If it's just a minor twitch in the back of your mind, distract yourself. But if it's becoming overwhelming, that is when talking about it can help tremendously.

There are probably other methods, but that was what helped me the most in getting over the baggage from my past relationships in regards to my new one. I mean, even 3 years on I still have flashes of paranoia with Oz but...it's easier to squelch now. It's no longer consuming and I'm comfortable enough with him to know that an "I'm tired" or something is nothing against me. In the beginning, for instance, if he got angry I would start to shut down and get passive aggressive- which is what worked in my previous relationship. It took a bit, but now if he gets angry I know it's not me personally and I'm able to instead calm him down, instead of making it worse.

I can empathize about your feelings. After having mostly unhealthy relationships, a healthy one can seem so weird. When I began dating Oz, and I was freaked out because I didn't really know how to have a healthy relationship. I've seen the same thing happen with my friends who were in bad relationships who then got in good ones. The only thing that can cure that is time, though. Practice and time.

[Rama]

Hey all.

First time posting on this thread, and this is probably more venting/cleansing than asking for help, but here goes.

So I was sitting down with my girlfriend of two years+ last night, who's been living with me a long time now, and we're going through her digital camera looking at some pictures she'd just taken of her cat. And we flip to a picture of, to keep it clean, an extreme closeup of a woman's privates. She skips past it and says something like "where the hell did that come from, who's been messing with my camera".

But I'm concerned about it. We've been having some intimacy issues as is and been talking for a while about it, trying (or so I thought) to work through it. So when she goes to work this morning, I do something bad - I pull up some of her skype chat logs with other guys. Just to check, because I can't get it out of my head.

And I find esex. Lots of it, over the past three months. Including discussions of times to get on webcams while I'm out of town on business trips. As well as disparaging comments about me, the tamest of which is "she doesnt know why she ever moved in with me".

So now I'm sitting here waiting for her to get home, any minute now, to break up with her. Fortunately the house and everything is in my name, not hers, so that's not a problem. But the worst part is, I had thought we were about to turn the corner and we're improving, and I love her; so I put down a deposit on a ring last week. I guess it's good I found out now, but this really hurts.

I guess I should have known better. A couple of my female friends told me when I first explained the situation as it existed two months ago that she probably didn't want me anymore and was just waiting for me to initiate the breakup. But like an idiot I didn't listen, and believed her when she said she wanted to work it out and fix the problems.

Honestly if she says when I confront her that she really wants to be with me, I know I'll have a hard time not accepting it. I don't know whether that's more pathetic or stupid. Either way I'm feeling extremely both at the moment.

Thanks for putting up with this; it does help at least temporarily to write it out.

[Syka]

*hugs* Good luck. That's...about all the advice I can give. If you need to talk, feel free to PM me.

[Eadin]

@Rama
Oh my, I'm so soryy this happened to you:smallfrown:
*hugs* Good luck

[loopy]

Jack Squat

don't sweat it - it dies down eventually. Sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes it never completely stops, but as long as it doesn't make your other half unhappy, and you handle it in a polite/mature way then no-harm-no-foul really

I write this for all current and future posters. Every post, and I mean every post that xPANCAKEx makes has my full and unwavering approval. He's a scumbag, but he's a wise scumbag.

[xPANCAKEx]

I write this for all current and future posters. Every post, and I mean every post that xPANCAKEx makes has my full and unwavering approval. He's a scumbag, but he's a wise scumbag.

oh that is so getting sigged

[xPANCAKEx]

Rama

calling it off is wise

telling her why may not be so wise... after all, at this point you don't actually OWE her an explaination. Unless she was using skype on your computer, then admitting to her that you went through her computer could give her something to throw back at you and try and make herself seem like the victim in all this

it will be difficult, but just get it done - get her out of your house, and when you feel ready to re-enter the world of romance hopefully you'll meet someone who will treat you with respect

[Aedilred]

<snip>
The problem, obviously, is me. But I don't know how to get over all of this. I'm scared it's going to drive him away.
TALK TO HIM.

I cannot emphasise that enough. If he loves you, he'll understand, and if you don't communicate with him it will drive you apart, maybe not immediately, but in the long run.

If you look a couple of pages back you'll see that I've just come out of a relationship- which started in a very similar way to yours, by the sound of things, with a similar, if less serious, set of issues on her part. Four years later and those same issues have split us up. For six months she kept her own counsel, not wanting to tell me in case I got upset, and eventually tied herself in such knots she couldn't see any way out except to end things, which was something neither of us really wanted. I still don't really understand, to be honest. But none of the problems we had were ever insurmountable; if she'd talked to me about them a couple of months ago we could have worked round them. We had a very open conversation last week (after we split up) and all I could think was that we should have had it several years earlier. By the time she felt she could talk to me about it, it was already too late.

Don't do this. Please. For my sake as much as yours. I don't think anything could really make me feel better at the moment, but if my experience can help you save your relationship, at least my woes won't have been entirely in vain.

[Lillith]

@onthetown: I can't agree enough with what Aedilred said. If your boyfriend loves you he will understand. If you don't tell him what is bugging you he might start to wonder and try to fill in the blanks, which is never a good thing. Also you said he has his own baggage so the chance is big he'll understand. I mean honestly it's not weird that someone starts to distrust men when most men she knew have been abusive to her. Please tell him what is bothering you, I know it is hard but it will be a relief to you and for him a way to understand you better and support you.

[Rama]

Rama

calling it off is wise

telling her why may not be so wise... after all, at this point you don't actually OWE her an explaination. Unless she was using skype on your computer, then admitting to her that you went through her computer could give her something to throw back at you and try and make herself seem like the victim in all this

it will be difficult, but just get it done - get her out of your house, and when you feel ready to re-enter the world of romance hopefully you'll meet someone who will treat you with respect

Yeah thats pretty much exactly how it played out. Now I'm the bad guy. You'd think that complaining that someone looked at your computer is acknowledging that there's something to find on your computer...but somehow it doesn't.

Honestly if she'd come clean and said 'yes I did all this, I'm sorry, I was going through a bad patch', whatever, I don't know if I'd have been able to follow through. But she chose the deny-everything, blame-it-all-on-me approach. In retrospect, I shouldn't be surprised. That's how she's handled everything else we've ever had an issue with.

I'm actually not as bad off as I expected. I'm sad, but that's mostly what-might-have-been sadness. And after being together for so long I'm not looking forward to being on my own again. I tend towards isolation as is so being the only one in this house is going to be difficult. And I'm going to miss her cat, he's a goofball and a sweetheart.

The hard part is going to be getting back out there and finding someone new I think. This is the worst ending to a relationship I've ever had (granted I've not had very many at all to end), and I think it's going to take a long time for me to be able to trust again.

As far as actually getting her out of the house, what are y'alls thoughts on that? She doesn't have anywhere local to go (her family is over 8 hours away) and she has a crappy job so not a lot of money. I'm not going to foot the bill, so what's a reasonable approach for resolving that?

[Eadin]

you could give a deadline...
say she has a month to move out
or if you are wealthy offer to pay her a train ticket to where her family lives or something...

But you know, she (in my book) 'cheated' on you...
you don't owe her anything, I know this sounds cruel ..

Also, now is not the time to be thinking about finding someone new...
it's the time for healing, you'll know when you're ready to go out dating again

[onthetown]

Thanks guys :smallsmile: We do talk about those things together, as he has some issues of his own, it's just hard for me to realize that he probably isn't trying to trick me or pull the wool over my eyes.

[Eadin]

Thanks guys :smallsmile: We do talk about those things together, as he has some issues of his own, it's just hard for me to realize that he probably isn't trying to trick me or pull the wool over my eyes.

I always had a lot of trouble believing my ex boyfriend actually did care about me.
I had the same problem as you, although my issues were a lot less serious
We broke up because he couldn't handle it anymore
I really hope you find happiness with your boyfriend , I don't want that what happened to me to happen to you..

[Syka]

Yeah, I'd say give her a deadline (a month at most) in which she has to be out. She can stay in the area or move back with her family or live in a shelter, but she's got to be out by X day.


I'm sorry it went over so poorly, and I can't say I'd be happy if someone went through my computer without my knowledge (I'm private, I'd gladly give my boyfriend access, but I don't like someone doing it without express permission), but...in this case I'd say the "You were e-boinking someone else!" trumps the "How dare you go through my Skype!"

Unless she's given you previous permission to use/look at her Skype. I have standing permission from Oz to look at and/or use his email, facebook, etc. I know his passwords for everything, and have the spoken permission that I can go on them whenever I want. He couldn't use the "How dare you!" card for that. Oz knows my passwords to somethings, but it has the caveat that they won't be used except on occasions where I give permission and after that occasion, permission is revoked.

It's not that I have something to hide (I definitely don't), I'm just reallly weird about it. Not even my mom knows all my passwords.

[Keld Denar]

Get a cat of your own. That'll give you at least some companionship while you search for someone else. Better yet, get a puppy. Chicks dig puppies. Take it to a public park and play with it. Get the number of EVERY girl that comes up to you and exclaims how cute it is.

I've always found breakups to be bittersweet. On the one side, it is sad, and you are exactly right on the "what coulda beens", but on the otherside, there is a huge level of the exciting unknown. There's the butterflies in your tummy of meeting someone new, earning their affection, being sweet and the satisfaction that comes with her appreciating your sweetness. Its scary, but its also an adventure! Especially if things were going rather grimmly at the end before the breakup, its like a stone has been lifted and you almost feel like you can fly, or conquer the world, or both, with 1 hand behind your back! Flex those dating muscles and get out there.

PS, I dunno what kind of person you are, but join a gym. Gyms are simultaneously a good way to meet active girls (who also tend to be in decent shape, or at least are working on it), and exercise releases endorphines and dopamine, your body's natural euphoria drugs. If you feel glum, go to the gym and beat the crap out of a set of freeweights for an hour or so. Channel it into positivity. You get free drugs, a toner body (with the self-confidence that comes with it), and the prospect of meeting a cutie. Its a win-win situation!

[Syka]

Puppies are golden. Anecdote: Leaving my local Best Buy, which is located near a pet store, I spotted an adorable puppy with a guy and pointed said puppy out to my mom. As we go "D'aww!" I hear another pair of girls the next row of cars over doing the same. Exact. Thing.

As long as you raise said puppy right, grown dogs can also be lady-winners. :smallwink: Roscoe (the younger of Oz's parent's two dogs) plays up the puppy-dog-eyes despite being 8 years old and loves on everyone, which in turn endears everyone to him. Missy is the grumpy old lady (she's 15) and everyone loves on her because she gives off this aura of "I'm an old lady. Serve me." But neither have a tendency towards barking, biting, or jumping upon you (well...Roscoe will lean heavily, but it's not as bad as jumping). Those traits are...less than endearing. We've had random people in the neighborhood come up as we're walking the dogs to compliment their looks, including the few who are our age.

[Rama]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the support.

And yeah Syka, I do feel kinda meh about going through her computer. If it hadn't been for the picture I never would have even considered it. I do respect her privacy, it was just killing me all night. Didn't sleep at all.

Really I was hoping to be proven wrong more than anything. Ah well.

Thanks again everyone.

[Rama]

Puppies are golden. Anecdote: Leaving my local Best Buy, which is located near a pet store, I spotted an adorable puppy with a guy and pointed said puppy out to my mom. As we go "D'aww!" I hear another pair of girls the next row of cars over doing the same. Exact. Thing.

As long as you raise said puppy right, grown dogs can also be lady-winners. :smallwink: Roscoe (the younger of Oz's parent's two dogs) plays up the puppy-dog-eyes despite being 8 years old and loves on everyone, which in turn endears everyone to him. Missy is the grumpy old lady (she's 15) and everyone loves on her because she gives off this aura of "I'm an old lady. Serve me." But neither have a tendency towards barking, biting, or jumping upon you (well...Roscoe will lean heavily, but it's not as bad as jumping). Those traits are...less than endearing. We've had random people in the neighborhood come up as we're walking the dogs to compliment their looks, including the few who are our age.

Actually I do have a dog, a chow-lab-something mix that was found on the side of the road by a coworker. She was about 5 weeks old at the time, and between that trauma and the chow side she's a bit antisocial though - barking mostly. She's a sweetheart too. And I have a cat of my own. Her cat is just odd and hilarious. Drinks beer out of the bottle, chirps when he sees a bird, and just has so much personality.

I guess I'm just crazy about animals :p

[Syka]

As I said, you're "OMG you were e-boinking" really outstrips the "How are you!" on the scale of "things to be offended and pissed off about". And this is coming from someone who is fiercely private, lol.

Good luck. :) Make sure to take care of yourself...it's far too easy to not eat (or overeat, depending on your inclination during stressful times) during and after a break up. >> I remember having to force myself to eat.







Also...those friends who broke up over something ostensibly silly (at least from the news we had)? Back together. :smallbiggrin: So frakking happy.

Also also...planning weddings suck. At least we're getting in to the fun food and cake tasting stages. I was able to turn my sister on to a local family run bakery that does some amazingly tasty treats. And they are Italian. I now know where we get our never-ending appetites for food and conversation.


Edit: If you want odd, get a Russian Dwarf Hamster. They are the wacko's of the hamster world, apparently. They tend towards being mean and ornery, as well as bizzare. My friend's will push his face in to a corner and sleep with his neck at an odd angle. Saffron tends towards sleeping on her side and/or back....but only occasionally. Scares me half to death, lol.

[Lillith]

I was able to turn my sister on to a local family run bakery that does some amazingly tasty treats. And they are Italian. I now know where we get our never-ending appetites for food and conversation.


Gee, did you find the Cake Boss bakery? :smallbiggrin: I love that program, their cakes look so taste. Prolly not though, unless you live in New Jersey. Though I heard Italians are pretty good bakers. (I wish I could get a Buddy wedding cake, that guy is amazing with cake)

[Superglucose]

Puppies are golden. Anecdote: Leaving my local Best Buy, which is located near a pet store, I spotted an adorable puppy with a guy and pointed said puppy out to my mom. As we go "D'aww!" I hear another pair of girls the next row of cars over doing the same. Exact. Thing.
One of those was probably me :smallbiggrin:

ALso get a lab. They are lady killers at ANY age! When they're puppies, they're puppies. When they're adolescents, they are just the most adorably awkward things on earth with their sprawling, lanky bodies. When they're 2-8ish, they're super high energy, love to chase balls and just have fun meeting people, and above 8 they like to just lie about and be beautiful.



As long as you raise said puppy right, grown dogs can also be lady-winners. :smallwink: Roscoe (the younger of Oz's parent's two dogs) plays up the puppy-dog-eyes despite being 8 years old and loves on everyone, which in turn endears everyone to him. Missy is the grumpy old lady (she's 15) and everyone loves on her because she gives off this aura of "I'm an old lady. Serve me." But neither have a tendency towards barking, biting, or jumping upon you (well...Roscoe will lean heavily, but it's not as bad as jumping). Those traits are...less than endearing. We've had random people in the neighborhood come up as we're walking the dogs to compliment their looks, including the few who are our age.
Dogs are always puppies, as an owner you should know this :smallwink:

[Daschnaya]

I need help.

I don't post a lot (at all, really) on the Playground, but I've been lurking recently, and you guys are always really helpful on this thread. So I thought I might as well try.

Backstory (spoilered for length, but I'll try to keep it short):
For almost three years, my best friend was a guy (I'll call him Douglas) who lived many states away from me. We met over the Internet and hit it off instantly.
As our friendship continued, we started to get a bit more personal with each other - using each other's real names, telling our secrets, that kind of thing. This led to one of my teachers becoming concerned about my safety, so she offered to call his school to see if Douglas was indeed who he said he was. And yeah, he was a real person.

Somewhere along the line, we both took a silly quiz and found out that we were compatible (as in, romantically). We found this hilarious, and started jokingly flirting with each other and pretending we were a couple.
But this reached a point where I actually developed feelings for him. I thought it would be bad for both of us if I ever told him, so I went into denial and refused to admit my crush to anybody - even myself.

Then I entered my first year of high school, which was a dramatic change from my old school. Standard teenage angst + increased stress + having no friends + self-esteem problems = me becoming suicidal and clinically depressed (at least, my mother was pretty sure I had depression. She didn't want to take me to a doctor because she has something against them).
The only thing that I thought was worth living for was Douglas. We were such good friends that just a conversation with him could make it all go away. So I fought and didn't give in, and with the support of my mother, eventually managed to claw my way out of it (mostly).

But by that time, Douglas was having problems of his own. He wrote a letter to me (not actually mailed, just on a web page) expressing his troubles and how much he valued my friendship, because I understood and helped him through it. He ended the letter saying that he loved me (platonically).

And that's when my denial went away. I just came right out and told him, and surprise surprise, he felt the same way. We started up a long-distance relationship, and were happy together for quite a long while.
It was the most incredible thing I'd ever had happen to me. I'd been in romantic relationships before, but they were all started because of either physical attraction or because I was feeling lonely. My attraction to Douglas was because of who he was.
I have my doubts as to whether people as young as me can love. But he made me forget all that. I felt that I was in love, and that we would conquer all obstacles in our way and nothing could tear us apart.

But Douglas's problems didn't go away. Aside from a bad (understatement!) relationship with his mother, his closest male friend had turned on him, and he started telling me how much he wanted to die. I offered him a listening ear. I was his shoulder to cry on. But I began to worry that he needed more help than I could give, so I offered him the link to a website with several links to help resources. He got angry and turned them down (but later apologized).
So I talked to my teacher about it, because I was worried and didn't want to lose him. And she called his school, who connected her to his counselor.
When Douglas found out what I'd done, he got so angry with me. He refused to speak to me for days.

We eventually started talking again. He apologized for the way he'd acted. But we didn't talk nearly as much as we had before the incident.
I tried my best to keep the relationship alive, but every conversation we had was initiated by me.
The day we hit three months, he updated his profile on a website we both frequented. Many of his 'dislikes' were things about me I'd mentioned: long hair (my hair is long), skirts (I'm kind of girly and like wearing them), lilac (my room is lilac).
And his journal said that he'd been having doubts about something (he didn't say what).

The following day, he broke up with me. He said that he didn't feel "that way" about me anymore, and that his heart wasn't in it, and that if we got "stuck in a relationship," it would be bad.

So now, here I am. It's been at least two weeks since it ended.

I feel foolish for investing so much feeling into a high school romance, especially a long-distance one. I feel lost and broken without him - I wasn't emotionally dependent on him (I hope) as I had made several new friends and was managing to enjoy life while we were together.
But he was my best friend. He knew more about me than anyone else. I'm always pretending when I'm around people, pretending I'm somebody I'm not. It got to the point where I didn't know who I was anymore - but around him, I could be myself. We could talk about anything, and I mean anything.

And I don't know who I am anymore. I'm so confused about myself and I wish I could have somebody to talk about it with. But I don't.

I guess what I'm asking is...
1. How do you get over a breakup?
2. Is there any hope for us ever becoming friends again?
3. How do I get a hold on my identity and stop pretending?
4. How do I get closer to my real-life friends so that I can have people to talk to?

If you made it through all that... thank you. I'm really nervous about posting this, but I'm just going to go ahead and click the button.

[Trellan]

I guess what I'm asking is...
1. How do you get over a breakup?
2. Is there any hope for us ever becoming friends again?
3. How do I get a hold on my identity and stop pretending?
4. How do I get closer to my real-life friends so that I can have people to talk to?

I'm going to preface this by saying I may not be the best person to take this kind of advice from (not exactly the king of social situations), but here are my thoughts.

1.) Time. That's really the only answer. It helps if you fill that time with friends who can keep you occupied or some other form of activity, but even then you're still going to hurt. Relationships, especially serious ones like the one you described, hurt when they end. A lot. It's an old cliche and incredibly unhelpful in situations like this, but you just have to go with the old standby of "time heals all wounds". Give it a while. It will stop feeling like someone forcefully ripped out the most crucial chunk of your soul, then it will fade to minor flare-ups every now and then, then it will be a slightly bad memory overshadowed by the good times you two had together.

2.) Yes, although you shouldn't expect it to ever be the same kind of friendship. A few things happened here that are going to prevent it. A.) You had a relationship. No matter what, your friendship is going to be different because of that. There is absolutely nothing you can do to change this. B.) He obviously lost trust in you. I'm not saying what you did was wrong (in fact, I agree with it. If someone is talking about suicide, you should try to get them help. I don't know the whole story though, so maybe his counselor tried to force help upon him), but he obviously feels that you have betrayed him. If your friendship continues, it may take some time for him to start opening up. C.) His reaction to your attempt at help will likely cause you to be worried about helping him in the future. The way he snapped will stick with you and possibly stop you from trying to be there for him if he starts opening up to you again. In short, you may become friends again, but he won't be the same friend you had before.

3.) This is... well, this is tough. As someone who has dealt with the same issues most of my life, I can tell you that there is no real answer to this. The simple response is, of course, "just stop pretending", but I understand just how impossible that can be. Perhaps try becoming more yourself just a little bit at a time. Stop pretending about the things that are most important to yourself first, then progress from there. That way you don't have to face the monumental task of opening up your full nature all at once, and it also allows you to change parts of what you might see as the "real you" to better fit who you'd like to be. Or maybe not. Like I said, this is something I don't think I have an answer for.

4.) My advice here is twofold: always be available when they need someone to seriously talk to (and learn to recognize the signs when they won't or can't verbalize that need themselves) and open yourself up to them (or at least the ones you trust). Perhaps you can tie this into number three as well. Do you have any friends that you trust more than others? Begin opening up to them. Talk to them about your hopes and fears. Tell them about what happened with your "Douglas" and ask for their advice. Don't just treat them like a depression dump though, also tell them when you had a really good day, or about that perfect dream house you hope to own some day, etc. Hopefully that will cause them to open up to you as well, and your friendship can become deeper.

[Keld Denar]

*hug*


1. How do you get over a breakup?
2. Is there any hope for us ever becoming friends again?
3. How do I get a hold on my identity and stop pretending?
4. How do I get closer to my real-life friends so that I can have people to talk to?

1. Time. Find something you enjoy that is healthy and focus on that. Something like running or working out would be good, as would any creative outlet you might have. Reflect. Every time you think "I should still be in this relationship", focus on the fact that you aren't, and that you are still doing fine. Its hard, but you can will yourself through it.
2. Maybe. It won't be soon though. Depending on how much time you need, take at least 4 weeks of complete not talking to each other. After that, talk. The time you spent apart will help you grow in yourself. Once you see that, it'll change things. You'll still feel fondness for him. I still feel fondness for almost every girl I've been in a relationship with. Its natural. But you won't feel the same as you did.
3-4. These are kinda tied together. Find out what you are good at and focus on it. Do things you are interested in with those who share those interests. Indulge in things that interest you. Cultivate your friendships. You'll be busy with that, and at some point, you'll look back and this'll all be a memory.



If you made it through all that... thank you. I'm really nervous about posting this, but I'm just going to go ahead and click the button.

Live life like just like you posted this. Plan it out, and regardless of whether it scares you, click send, metaphorically. Its scary, but once you click send, you just have to ride it out!

[arguskos]

I guess what I'm asking is...
1. How do you get over a breakup?
2. Is there any hope for us ever becoming friends again?
3. How do I get a hold on my identity and stop pretending?
4. How do I get closer to my real-life friends so that I can have people to talk to?
I am not the best one to talk, but I've been fighting hard to get over my last relationship (2.5 years, in person, was very invested emotionally in it, ended badly, didn't handle it well, it's been 6 months now).

1. You don't. I hate saying it, but I STILL dream about my ex, the laughs and good times we shared, the mistakes I made, the tears I cried, the times I hurt her and she hurt me. I think this is natural, that it's our way of holding onto those people, those memories, and I think it's a good thing. Though I don't want anything to do with her anymore really, I keep those memories (though I didn't want to for a long time, up to very recently actually), and try to just remember the good times. I'll carry it with me for a long time though, sappy as that is.

2. I don't know. It's quite possible that you'll never regain that connection that you used to have. My dad told me once, long ago, "Argus, always plan for the worst, hope it's not actually that bad, but if it is, you're damn well prepared!" I think that's good advice for damn near anything. Take it here. Plan for the possibility that you'll never be friends again, and move on. Make new friends, build those connections with other people, but don't neglect the old connection. If something happens and you do reconnect, hey! Great! If not, well, you were prepared, and won't be hurt twice.

3. I wish I knew, I really do. :smallsigh: I have a similarly tough query (how do I interact in a social setting and not be a total bellend?), and the answer seems to be "well, you just sorta do, you know?" Not very helpful, I know, but hey, there you have it. Only thing I can say is just try, be you, open up, take risks, sure you'll be hurt, but you'll learn and grow too. That's how it was explained to me, long ago, and it seems to work I guess.

4. Again, the answer would look to be "well, just open up and try, ya know?" It's not super useful, but, well, at some point you just have to go for it, to take a chance. It's like bungee jumping. At some point, you just have to jump off that ledge and hope and pray you make it out alive.

Sorry I'm not amazingly useful here, but I hope you take a little solace from my ramblings, and if not, well, I tried. :smallredface:

[MeatShield#236]

As someone who has gone through clinical depression and feels the need to act around others, I understand what you are going through. I'm not very good at giving out advice, so just listen to what these fine people have said.

*hugs*

[Daschnaya]

Thank you, guys... thank you so much. Even if you don't think you're being helpful, or that you aren't good at advice giving, you are. It's wonderful that you can be so kind to people you know nothing about. :smallsmile:

I've been doing a lot of things - playing video games, watching TV, sleeping, eating excessive amounts of ice cream, etc. It helps to distract myself, although I was worried that I was just trying to cover up the problem and not deal with it.
But I guess the only answer is time. Yeah, I have plenty of that now that summer's here. I suppose that now, after two weeks, I'm more upset about the fact that he seems to dislike me, not that he doesn't love me.

I suppose I ought to elaborate on the "pretending" issue - don't get me wrong, your advice is very helpful, but I don't really know how to use it. See, when I say that I don't know who I am, I guess I really mean that I don't know how to act like myself.
To friend A, I might act laid-back, relaxed, and slightly aloof, but when I'm with friend B, I would get more bouncy, loud, and start quoting Internet memes like nobody's business. I do this subconsciously, and I don't know which one of those is more "Daschnaya." Maybe they're both me. Maybe neither one is. Maybe this is all a natural part of growing up/being human and I just have to deal with it.
But it's a problem because I end up feeling bad about what I've said. Sometimes I say very awkward things because it just seems like what my persona would do. I even do this on forums - on a forum where I'm required to reveal my age, I act childish and immature, even though that's not me. If my age can be kept ambiguous, I act more like myself.
And it makes me sick inside, because I know that those things I said may as well not have come from my mouth. It feels fake. Like I'm putting on a costume to either impress others, or fit their expectations.
Eh, I don't know. Maybe this is the wrong place to ask about this - it's not very relationship-related. -shrugs-

I've prodded a couple of my most-trusted friends, asking if they have the time/patience to just talk with me over emails. Now, if I absolutely have to talk in person, face to face, I can probably set something up, but I'm very introverted and don't like to go out a lot. (This is why I have trouble making friends.)
It makes me nervous, because I'm afraid they might not want to listen to me whine (even though I don't plan on doing that exclusively) even though I listen to them a lot. I also don't quite know what I'd say, and I don't know how they'll react to what I might say.

But... I'm going to try. Again, thank you.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Daschnaya, you just described me a few years ago, to the T. I called it masks. Different masks for different people. Nobody saw under the mask.

I don't know what exactly changed between now and then. I think part of what happened was... well, I was able to find a friend I could talk to, but only because she needed a friend to talk to as well. I found that, through helping her, I gained the confidence to deal with my own problems.

[term1nally s1ck]

Who you are at your most relaxed, when you feel the least pressure to fit in, is you. You probably will never find that feeling, unless you are very very lucky. Most people only have it with their 'the one'.

[xPANCAKEx]

Rama

re: her moving out

At this time the best thing to do is look after yourself. If you haven't already, express that you want her out of the house soon so she should start looking for a place to live. Ask for an update after 3 days to show you're serious about it.

If she has to move 8 hours away to be with family, so be it. But she cant stay there, and it is (technically) your house, so the onus is on YOU to stay there

prepare to get painted as the bad guy, and some may frown upon your actions/stop talking to you - but this is a good thing. Real friends will ask your side of things before making a judgement. At times like this it really is good to rid yourself of the flakes who wont even hear you out

[Serpentine]

Of course, some real friends will still frown on your actions, but only after hearing your side of it.

[Superglucose]

I need help.
I think you need confidence. More on that later :smallbiggrin:


I feel foolish for investing so much feeling into a high school romance, especially a long-distance one.
High-school is a terrible qualifier for a relationship and I feel like it should be burned into a tiny pile of ashes. Just because you are aged 14-18 does not make your feelings any less valid. It only means that you're less experienced in dealing with them (in theory) than people who are twice your age. Unfortunately, humanity as a whole tends to build its self esteem by belittling those around them, i.e. "My love is real, your love is fake because it's blah blah blah" (exchange "homosexual" or "high school" or "teenage" or "heterosexual" for "blah blah blah"). It's just a way of reaffirming superiority over the other person.

In my opinion, it's a mistake the vast majority of parents make. "You don't know what love is" and "it's foolish to get invested in a relationship at your age" basically say, whether or not that's the intent, "Your emotions and feelings are invalid."

Whatever the qualifiers were on your relationship, you were as invested in the relationship as you wanted to be, and while it's easy to hindsight "Man, I shouldn't have been as into this" understand that you did not make any mistakes by loving this person or trusting him or letting him love you back. You also didn't make any mistakes by warning your counselor.



I feel lost and broken without him - I wasn't emotionally dependent on him (I hope) as I had made several new friends and was managing to enjoy life while we were together.
Let's be fair, you were best friends with him for several years and dating him for at least a fair amount of that time. Losing him is a huge blow. That's understandable, normal, and to be expected.



But he was my best friend. He knew more about me than anyone else. I'm always pretending when I'm around people, pretending I'm somebody I'm not. It got to the point where I didn't know who I was anymore - but around him, I could be myself. We could talk about anything, and I mean anything.
See above. When you lose someone like this, it will crush you. The trick is putting yourself back together.



And I don't know who I am anymore. I'm so confused about myself and I wish I could have somebody to talk about it with. But I don't.
I mean, I'll always talk to you about anything. But I definitely know what you mean. I kind of got involved with my best friend too, and when I found out that a miscommunication had broken her heart I found... well I found that I had no one to talk to and no one to console me. My "best friend" was over there nursing a deep hatred of me because of what she thought I had said, and all of our mutual friends, while they weren't shunning me or making me out to be the bad guy, were definitely more interested in hanging out with her and my presence was causing problems. So I lost all of those friends too.

I definitely spiraled into depression after that one.


I guess what I'm asking is...
1. How do you get over a breakup?
2. Is there any hope for us ever becoming friends again?
3. How do I get a hold on my identity and stop pretending?
4. How do I get closer to my real-life friends so that I can have people to talk to?
1) Time. Time does not heal all wounds, but it is a necessary component of most cures.
2) Yes but don't push it.
3) You just have to meet the right people. That's how it happened with me... months after the breakp I ended up being friends with Steffy and Meagan. I am now joined at the hip with Steffy and I want Meagan more than I've wanted anyone in my life. In short? A few months after losing my best friend I made new best friends who helped me regain touch with who I am.
4) Trust begets trust. Trust them and they will trust you, which is a nice little spiral of awesome.



If you made it through all that... thank you. I'm really nervous about posting this, but I'm just going to go ahead and click the button.
I know that feeling.

Oh, and one more thing? You're young. You don't have to know who you are, you can certainly still be in the process of finding that out. Some people haven't figured it out by their fifties, and others figure it out by age like twelve.

Life is a journey, don't get so focused on the destination that you miss the scenery. Every time you hang out with people, as long as you're comfortable and enjoying yourself, I submit that it really doesn't matter how you're acting (within reasonable limits of course). "I don't know who I am" isn't a bad thing, it's an excuse to go out and do exciting things and explore and figure it out!


Of course, some real friends will still frown on your actions, but only after hearing your side of it.
My response would be, "Kind of messed up that you went through her skype bro, but I can't BELIEVE she did that to you! What a <expletives deleted... lalala lalala nothing here>! I mean it's obvious now, but you're so much better off without her. That's... that's just wrong." Real friends will frown on your actions, and then that frown will probably be drowned in an unrelenting sea of rage towards your (now) ex.
I'm agreeing with serpentine by the way
You don't come out of it squeaky clean, but comparatively you are close. If I was her friend and she was like "Invasion of privacy!" I would respond with, "You do realize that you were cheating on him, right? And that's messed up, right?" If she didn't accede to that, she's no longer a friend of mine.

[Keld Denar]

I do this subconsciously, and I don't know which one of those is more "Daschnaya." Maybe they're both me.

This. You aren't simply one person who can be described in a single phrase. You are a multifaceted person with a broad spectrum of interests and tastes. You are comfortable being bubbly and over the top, yet enjoy being refined and intellectual. NOBODY is gonna tell you you can't be both. Everyone, and I mean everyone, adapts a little bit to the the environment and every encounter. Thats just how we are as human beings. A little bit of our environment is imprinted upon us every day for the short term and the long.

No facet of you is more you than you. You are you. That is that. Embrace it. Do things that make you feel comfortable, regardless of the situation. You are the master of your own domain, its one of the biggest perks of being an adult. If you are uncomfortable with how you act in certain situations, avoid those situations. Distance yourself from people that make you feel uncomfortable, and cling to the people who make you most relaxed. Cherish your friends, but don't be closed to the possibility of making new ones. People bump into each other all the time, figuratively and literally. Next time that happens, smile big, hold out your hand and say "Hi, I'm Daschnaya." Its intimidating, but just like that first message, once you click "send", you've already set into motion a conversation, so you might as well continue it.

Does this make sense?

[Lillith]

I guess what I'm asking is...
1. How do you get over a breakup?
2. Is there any hope for us ever becoming friends again?
3. How do I get a hold on my identity and stop pretending?
4. How do I get closer to my real-life friends so that I can have people to talk to?

Just trying to add my two cents because I can relate somewhat to what you´re saying.

1. A tough one, it is different for everybody. You mentioned that you´re keeping yourself busy and that you may be worried about not dealing with the situation. Some people deal with it by staying busy. Sitting on the couch eating ice cream while crying (sorry for the cliche) is not for everybody. Personally I think it is good of you to keep going on with your life. How hard it may be.

2. These things are usually very difficult. Especially if one of the two is still in love with the other. The best thing I think you could do now is keep your distance from him. Not only because he has many difficult issues in his life going on, but also because you need to heal. Get over him so to speak. Perhaps it is best to let the contact come from him. Maybe he'll realize that what he did was... well kind of mean (honestly, posting a page with things he dislikes that indirectly refer to you is kind of mean after the things you did for him), but he is right now emotionally tied up. Maybe even in a state where he can't see that you wanted to be there for him. This doesn't mean he'll fall for you again, but at least realize in time that you were a good friend.

3. Well this is a silly answer but well, stop pretending. If you don't know when you're pretending anymore or what is your real opinion, you might have to take time and sort this out first. Get a blank piece of paper and write down your feelings and thoughts. Or maybe go find a question list about your likes and dislikes and think about it for a while. Then when you're in a conversation with someone, speak your mind and what you truly think/believe. Baby steps, just start with something simple.

4. You could call your friends and ask them to go see a movie. Then you'll be spending time with them but don't have to talk a lot yet. Or maybe just go out to grab a snack. Invite them to do small fun things to do, you don't have to plan a while day out. During these events you'll automatically start to talk and through talking you can create a bond with your friends.

I hope this helps. Also, don't feel bad about investing so much time in this relationship. It might be during high school but 'adults' do these things too. It just happens more regularly in high school. Maybe its hormonal, maybe it's psychological, I don't know. I just know that during that time people will fall and can fall hard.

[Umael]

I need help.

Most of us do. Many of us just aren't brave enough to admit it.



I guess what I'm asking is...
1. How do you get over a breakup?
2. Is there any hope for us ever becoming friends again?
3. How do I get a hold on my identity and stop pretending?
4. How do I get closer to my real-life friends so that I can have people to talk to?

1) Time. Just like everyone said. Also, keeping yourself busy. And for goodness sake, don't pick at it! Seriously, an emotional wound is like a physical wound in many ways - clean it, wrap it, and don't pick at it! I examined and analyzed one break-up from here to two states over, and it just made me an emotional, mental case for the duration. It happened, don't dwell on it, move on as best you can, but move on.

2) Yes. But that depends on both of you. It is also a good idea if you give each other time to re-center yourselves. When you come back into contact, do NOT expect to ever get back together. It might happen, but not if you expect it and/or push it, it is very unlikely to ever happen so start playing the lottery if you want better odds, and remember that there was a break-up for a reason. Ergo, take time apart, then go back and see if you can get a friendship out of the broken timbers of your romance.

3) Not sure. Not sure what you are asking, or if I am sure what you are asking, I'm not sure how you do it. Sometimes you just do. You know who you are, you force yourself to be self-aware. Start a diary, write down your thoughts, staying with "I am...". Don't think about it, just write. That will become you.

4) Walk up to them. Say hi. Ask how they are doing. Say you want to hang out. Ask if they are up for that, and if so, when, where, and is there anything you guys want to do together.

Seriously, the first part is to just spend time with your RL friends. The second part is to look for those moments when you know you can trust them a little more - just like you did with him.

[Daschnaya]

I think you need confidence.
...Yeah, probably. I could ramble forever about why I lost my self-confidence and why I really need it, but that would be off-topic.

I think that the 'getting a piece of paper and writing my thoughts down' is a good idea. I have all these thoughts in my head that I desperately want to sort out, and maybe that would help.

And I don't want us to get back together. I don't trust him not to break my heart again. Right now, I'm not even remotely interested in/attracted to any men (is this normal after a breakup? This and a related thing is at least part of my identity freakout... PMs would be welcome).
The only way I could see it happening is if we had a long (very, very long) conversation about why our relationship ended, no secrets, no conclusion-jumping, and dealt with it. And even then, probably not.

[Superglucose]

Next time that happens, smile big, hold out your hand and say "Hi, I'm Daschnaya." Its intimidating, but just like that first message, once you click "send", you've already set into motion a conversation, so you might as well continue it.

Hmm... if I dash downtown I can just barely make the lunch special at the Silver Dragon, and then spend the next two hours walking around the arboretum doing EXACTLY THAT to every girl I think is even moderately attractive.

Will bring my phone as well.

What a fun sounding day! Meeting new people!

Oh and this is a trick someone taught me: Someone somewhere loved you at one point. That means that you can be loved, and if yuo can be loved, someone will love you and someone does love you. Never forget that.

[Keld Denar]

And even then, probably not.

Very few relationships that end but then start again after a shortish period of time make it. Its like breaking a vase. You can glue it back together, but you still see the cracks. Old disagreements come to the surface, old embitterments come to light, and it can get just plane ugly.

With time (and I'm talking a lot of time, 4-5 years+, maybe more), it might be possible. People change. He could grow out of the things that drive you away, and you might grow out of the things that he dislikes. Maybe. Probably not, though, so don't hold your breath. Thats a bridge to cross for another day.

I agree with your agreement to agree with Umael on the writting things down. Part of the theraputic nature of therapy is getting it out. Fortunately, there is the annonymous face of the intarwebz to vent to, as you've found. Write things down. Something fun to do is then to go back and read what you've written after a couple days or a week. Sometimes you look at what you've written and things "man, that was silly. I can't believe I was upset/concerned/hopeful/fearful/whatever". Reflect on this. Learn WHY you react the way you do, and what the symptoms are. Once you learn this, you can actually step outside of yourself in situations and do the same thing. Look down on yourself from your mind's eye and say "man, who is that silly girl, and why is she so upset/concerned/hopeful/fearful/whatever?" This is what I do and I find its REALLY helpful for handling things like anxiety and depression. I recover from sadness really quickly, because I'm able to step outside of myself and ask myself "bummer dude, but what is being sad going to acomplish? you should totally go work out right now".

Anyway, thats just what helps me. If you need something, PM myself, arguskos, Syka, Serpentine, xPancakex, or any others. Trust me, you are never imposing and you are never asking too much if it helps you get better.

[Lighturtle]

Brace for incoming wall of text!
Already posted my story on XKCD forums, but, well, whatever, maybe someone here has an idea.


Sorry if I got confused someplaces, this is a bit murky.

Now then, this is old, started several years ago. Memories are a blurry mess and I'm not sure of their validity.

Bit of a background before. As a child I was very isolated, borderline autistic. Didn't meet any interesting persons except a male friend which is irrelevant to the story. Spent all my time squatting alone, reading, and thinking about stuff.
Soo there was this girl. Let's call her M. She was 15 at the time, and I was a year younger than her. Now you see, I didn't notice her immediately. T'was just a chick that could be pretty if she didn't use makeup. Then we had some work to do in a randomly-assigned group. Well, the other were damn lazy and loafed around, so I headed toward the computers to do it alone. But to my surprise, she came with me to help. We finished the work, and turned it in.

Next evening, after classes, she kissed her boyfriend (more on this later) goodbye, then turned toward me. We talked a bit about the project then she remarked that I did most of the work and without me she would have had a poor grade. Then she said "merci, j'tadore" (that more or less means "I really like you", striking me as odd. I still don't understand why she said that).
Now as she has a "perfect record" (top grades every trimester every year in her whole life) and very low self-esteem, that probably meant much to her, for some reason. Failing at something would have been crushing.
It was then that it hit me: among the group, that person was the only one that helped me, then thanked me. Furthermore, she was extremely interesting to talk with. People up to now were extremely boring and predictable, but she was not. It was probably then that I started to love her. It was certainly then that I started feeling friendship.

Over the next few months, we got along better and better. This period of time is quite a bit fuzzy; but M and me got along better and better, and started conversing a lot. I also started to notice she was extremely beautiful. Her boyfriend, tough, was apparently some sort of a boor. She eventually broke up with him, and we kept growing closer. On February (we met on september), after a two-week long vacation, and seeing her again, I realized how much I had missed her, and the extent of my infatuation. We kept talking a lot, and she was... sort of flirtatious (sitting next to me, asking "are my legs ugly?", taking tips about her appearance to heart). However, I was confused, wimpy, and valued the friendship very much anyway. It was fine as it was. We didn't see each other much outside of school, tough, but this was apparently the case with all her friends. M looked extremely fine in a swimsuit, by the way.

And then, a morning in May, we met up, walked up toward an alcove, and she went toward this guy. Turned back, looked at me strangely, and started kissing him. I blinked and suddenly it was the afternoon. This is a bit cliche, yes, but something... shattered in my mind. I was sitting on a bench, and there was this girl, S, a friend of M. S was apparently pretty concerned, I suppose I must have looked strange. My mind kept feeling wonky and hazy. S suggested we move somewhere else: I followed her automatically. Then she peered at a corner, said "Oh there's M, but better not disturb her now", and giggled. I kept getting more dizzy and things swirled in an alarming fashion. I dug out my phone and called my mother for a lift home. She must have thought I was sick or something.

On the next few day, M saw her new boyfriend as much as possible. She was, however, worried about me, as I kept staring into space. I started hearing mocking, stiffed laughs from nowhere. I started remembering events that didn't happen. Things were losing their color. I became very resilient against physical pain, lost most of my appetite, and my hands started shaking, for some reason.
Meanwhile, M was apparently very happy, and very much in love. She stayed very much in love with him at least two more years.

School ceased and summer vacation started.
We started messaging. The burden of hiding it from her was too much pressure and I started to crack, letting out I loved someone. M was extremely curious "Who is it? Do I know her!? Is it even a girl?", even using "!" instead of her usual "...". And pressing. She made a list according to my answers ("Do I know her?" "Is she in our class?' etc) and then I told her curtly she had overlooked a possibility.
Her answer? I don't remember in detail, but it went something like that: "no... no... I don't know what to say... this is a very bad idea..."
Then I told her I was merely jesting, we made small, tension defusing talk, and then kept on mailing as normal.

The mysterious laughs turned to voices. Indistinct voices but undeniably hostile. My parents took my sister and me on a trip on the mountains. It was a really miserable experience (we kids HATED travelling, exercise, nature and let them know over and over) but I didn't give a ****. Was was getting to me was that there was not internet, and no way to talk to her (she didn't have a cell yet). On a walk I saw some hemlock. The voice got stronger, everything got bleak. I let the rest of the family go ahead, dug out the plant, and chewed the roots. As you probably noticed I didn't die. Just had vertigo and sharp, sharp stomach pains. After coming back from the mountain we got back in touch. For some reason I mailed her about the hemlock (her answer? "what the hell, don't do that... it would be too bad..."). Then we mailed even more than before. She went to see her boyfriend in Paris but didn't tell me much about this at all (wishing to spare me I guess). She also gave me her email password, so that I could check funny chain-emails as I sounded bored. I felt undeserving of her trust. But the voices sort of... died down, and the turmoil more or less froze. I wrote a lot those months, and sent her the results. She apparently liked my stories very much. I think they sucked. Then again, she liked Da Vinci Code.

The next school year started. Then I saw her again. And... some kind of gutwrenching... thing... seized me. M, S and me were in the same class (and M said she was very happy because of that). Then later on that day I saw her holding fondly the hand of her BF, gazing at him lovingly. The gutwrenching thing turned much worse, it started burning. The voices in my head woke up, but they were much worse now. Not only voice but full fledged... entities, vying for control. Most of them were incoherent masses of hatred, their sole goal to wrestle control away from me, leap on her, and bash her brains out. The self hatred started at this time. The voices were weak tough. I garbled something to her, staggered out of sight, and vomited in a trashcan. Later on my mother asked "What happened? It looks like the sky fell on you head!".
Then nightmares.

Oh, and it got much worse. The fact that I was now a danger to her, and lack of happiness lead to the birth of a compulsion to cease existing. I tried to die again, this time by ingesting paracetamol in large quantities. It did not do much but cause weakness and a disturbance in spacial perception. For some reason, I told her about it. She was horrified, and I started hating myself more for hurting her that way.
Then the... addiction got a whole lot worse. I systematically placed myself behind her in class ( S was next to her). I looked at her way too often. Craved contact, interaction. She seemed really unconfortable. Self hatred!

After a while, I finally told my feelings to her, and of course she rejected me. But... I couldn't let go. She very patient and understanding, but I kept insisting. I knew very well I didn't have a chance, and the healthy thing would have been to put some distance. But the craving was way too strong. And I was too busy with the insanity (imagine a dozen people who hate you very much and know you better than you do; now imagine then talking to you 24/24) to stop. The guilt added to the self hatred, and it added to the insanity. And the obession somehow grew stronger.
I started implying I was reading her emails, to get her to change her password, as I did not trust myself. She did not so I barked at her.

I naively tought of a way out. "Hey, I love her too much... but what if I hated her?" and told her about it. That was probably my worst idea ever. A while after I told her that, she became a bitch toward me. Cold, cruel... As there were a few moments where she was extremely nice and compationate, this seemed like some sort of... an act. But I was not in a state to reason at all. Soon afterwards I learned that intense love and hate don't cancel each-other: they just multiply and become something very ugly. The obsession grew worse and worse. I started writing poems and giving flowers because I loved her, because I hated her, because I felt so inferior to her, because I was confused. The confusion, guilt, love, hate, self-hate, wanting for it to end kept clashing and feeding the insanity.

I became horrible to her. I stared at her all day, followed her whenever she wasn't with her boyfriend, and manipulated whole conversations to cause her grief and frustrations (I usually can't predict her, but if angry she becomes... as simple as the others). In my eyes I became lower thant a worm, something that absolutly had to die. That was one of the reasons I was horrible to her: a calculation to cause the guilt to soar above the tought of her guilt and fear of death. "The only way she'll have peace is if you die. Sure, she will feel very guilty, but it's better in the long run. And you will have peace at last."
Except yeah, she was kind of a nice person. She didn't want to let me die. I asked her, again and again. I asked her to let me end it. But hey, she wouldn't.

And that guilt, along with extreme bad luck, made me somehow survive. Trying to fall from the roof? At the last moment, instinct and the tought of the pain my death would cause her took over and prevented me from landing roughly, merely ****ing up my knees. Hanging? Bad luck there: why did my father get up in the middle of the night and interrupt me? Blood loss in a warm bath? I ended up thinking about her, and getting out at the last moment, spraying blood everywhere, and then fainting. When I came to, the bleeding ceased. Had to clean up everything. Trouble using my wrists for a while.
I ended inflincting physical pain on myself. It was not a signal or anything: it was just to make the toughts and the voices stop.

About the voices... the second most "powerful" one did not have a "KILL HER KILL HER KILL" mindset. Instead, he had human-level intelligence, and was very distressed about being the product of a deaseased mind. M was the only one who knew about his existence. I still told her everything, except wanting to kill her. I didn't tell her that until years later.

Then there is a black hole in my memories. Nothing. For about two months, I have no recollection. The others didn't tell me what happened and I couldn't access their memories. I still don't know what happened then.

For some reason, S and I grew closer. My single minded obsession seemed to... well... fascinate her at some extent. Yes, pity and fascination. I didn't care about her. Was I more sane, she would have been a friend. But she was just a tool that I could use to get information and M, and find a way to hurt her.
The amusing thing is that while being a complete **** to M I was also very protective. Seeing her in pain was unbearable, even if the pain had another source than me. Of course, I couldn't "protect" her in any way. Her grandfather died. Then I used that to hurt her. Even years afterward this

Then summer came. She didn't answer to any mail for obvious reasons. That didn't prevent me from writing to her, again and again and again.

Then the next school year! We weren't in the same class. Didn't prevent me from stalking her everywhere tough. I did have rules.
"Don't touch her"
"Don't phone her"
"Never go in her town"

Second Voice got stronger and I grew weaker. When the stress was too much I simply "locked". Before I trusted Second Voice, I apparently just stood motionless for about half an hour, drooling (according to S). Now he replaced me. Only M knew about him, tough. He was under a great deal of stress also, tormented by his nature. Once as I was semiconscious I heard Second Voice and M talking: she told him "I don't want to talk to you. You are not the real him" and that wounded him deeply. He didn't hold a grudge tough. He seemed to completly lack rage or anger or hatred, for some reason.

For some reason, M got nicer to me. Smiling, and talking normally. My hatred for her vanished. I still wanted to die very badly, but couldn't do anything to hurt her. She was just so... nice and... beautiful. Later on, she told me that she tought I was getting better. She just saw me less because I didn't harass her anymore (so now I was hidden while staring at her) but that would explain the niceness.
Only mid year, she suddently got extremely cold and hateful again. I felt betrayed and didn't understand why. The rage came back, and it was just like the last year.

S apparently develloped a weird crush of sorts on me. Called me "daddy" by lapsus, and before every time she tried another boyfriend (went trough them like shirts), the day before going out with him, she'd pull the
"-I love you
-I don't.
-Hahaha just joking"
thing on MSN.
As this was getting annoying I just confronted her and told her that I did not like her that way. May sound presomptuous but didn't care at all about her feelings.

The year neared it's end. M got nice again. Out of pity, I guess. Or perhaps she didn't want me to suicide when we stopped seeing each other. My inferiority to her had grown plainer by the weeks. That girl is more intelligent than me, more attractive, far kinder, far more sane, cooks very well, can fly a plane, etc. This didn't help with the self-hatred thing.
Something that amuses me a great deal now is that my sister had an inferiority complex toward me.
Yeah so back to the story, M was kinder and kinder, until the last day arrived (I asked her if she wanted to keep in touch, the answer was an unseasy "..." as expected) . I looked toward her on the distance. She waved goodbye. I couldn't tear my eyes off. She looked exasperated. Then her boyfriend came out of the room and I turned back, never to see her again.

The next year, I got in a... Classe Préparatoire (basically it's a place where you work like crazy for 2 years to prepare for entrance exams) we kept moderatly in touch. I wrote to her. A lot. She anwsered once or twice.
The loss was completly unbearable, so I snapped yet another way. Well y'see there was this young, intelligent girl that was really nervous when we talked to each other, in a cute sort of way. That one was extremely predictable tough. And extremely easy to hurt (making people cry feels best when it is easy). Which I did, for fun. No guilt. My marks were rock bottom, as I didn't have any energy. Long term just didn't matter at all. She was gone. Nothing really matters.

One more year passes. With my marks a second year of Classe Préparatoire is out of the question; yet I had nice recommandation letters from the teachers (as a lack of energy didn't deprieve me from my intelligence).

So then I went to an engineering school. Minimal energy came back, and I was able to crawl to second year. Did meet some more or less interesting people (a young man in particular has interesting conversation) but am still feeling completly down in the dumps. I still wrote M an ungodly amount of emails. She almost nevers answers. She did answer once, very harshly. In shock, I tie my hands between my back after tying a trash bag around my head. Unfortunatly I forgot to tie my feet and survive. The experience was quite traumatic so doing it again is not an option.

Second year: near the end of the year I start getting more or less infatuated with someone else (let's call her L!), to my extreme surprise (she is very inferior to M in most domains. The only thing I can thing she's better at is ancient egyptian history). However, she turns me down. Don't have the quote in mind, but it is something to that effect: "Several things you said completly change how I think of you. I don't want to have anything to do with you anymore". I suppose my lunacy must have shown once or twice.
Old habits die hard, so I hurt L a tiny bit. Being a very shy, "obviously heavy past" person and since we were friends, she took it very badly. This slightly irritated me.
I keep mailing to M again, striking a balance between "BAAAH DON'T ANNOY HER DON'T HURT HER" and "AAARGH MUST INTERACT".

Third Year: L ferociously hates me. S friended me on facebook out of the blue then completly ignored me (wtf?).
And about M... internet stalking tells me she's doing well, in a prestigious Magistère (apparently they churn out physicists there). Still writing to her. She answered once, writing that she didn't understand why I was going after her, and that I should go after someone else. I answered that I was going after her because I was bonkers, and that I tried going after someone else and was rejected and didn't care nearly enough.


So what now?

[Dallas-Dakota]

Go to professional help.

I am not kidding, it looks like you seriously need it before you should even try to involve yourself in a romantic relationship.

Sorry if this seems short, but it's really the most pressing point.

[Kuma Da]

@lightturtle: seek therapy. Seriously. Dallas is exactly right.

[Keld Denar]

Yea man, it sounds like you might have some psycho-chemical issues that are far greater than rather significant amount of trauma you've experienced. Therapy is awesome. Find a good one. If you are dissatisfied with the one you get, get a different one. You NEED someone you are comfortable with to work this out. Please please please get help.

[Lighturtle]

Okay, guess since everyone say "seek professional help", it must be the correct thing to do.
They said the same on XKCD forums, thanks for the confirmation!

[shadow_archmagi]

So, the girl I like has a habit of not being very good about communicating. Which isn't to say she has a hard time saying what she means or anything, it's that she very rarely answers her phone or return calls, or emails.

Now, normally, at this point, I'd say "oh man I'm being ignored. Harsh" and take the hint, except everyone who knows her has the same complaint. Except that it isn't that she's ignoring me, or mad for any reason... whenever I see her in person we get along really well. I asked her best friend about it and she said that she has the same problem.

Indeed, her entire circle of friends is aware that she doesn't really do email or phones. I don't know why. I brought it up to her once and she was very apologetic about it but didn't really give a reason beyond not liking electronics much.

I can live without talking to her on the phone... but if I can't call and ask when she's free, how can I see her? I don't want to just show up out of nowhere...

[xPANCAKEx]

shadow_archmagi

if she likes you enough, she'll make the effort. as is, the balls firmly in her court, so i'd leave it up to her

frustrating, i know, but you really shouldn't have to try and start something thinking "ok, will she ever call"

[Dallas-Dakota]

What the wise Pancake said, as always.

And perhaps Skype? It might add in a touch of personal-feeling with the voice-chat and being able to see eachother?
Not to mention that its free, easy to download and the basics are reasonably simple.

[Daschnaya]

shadow_archmagi:
I (really) don't like phones either, so I have experience in dealing with the other side of this situation.
Try asking her if there's a time that would be convenient to call her? I don't answer the phone unless I've been told ahead of time that somebody's going to call, or if my parents tell me to.

[skywalker]

if she likes you enough, she'll make the effort. as is, the balls firmly in her court, so i'd leave it up to her

Heh, heh, you said... Waitaminute, I'm an adult.

Nevermind.

[Coidzor]

Hm. How does one open communications with the girlfriend of the last girl you were going after and really, really flirting rather heavily with but didn't quite manage to sync up with in order to actually start dating but you both admitted the mutual attraction to one another and so you're pretty sure this girl knows that you have the hots for her girlfriend and has just sent a friends request to you on facebook?

:smallconfused:

Part of me gets the feeling that this is some kinda test and another part of me just thinks I have to avoid sounding too friendly to avoid seeming greasy and like I just want to try for a threesome with them.

And yet another part of me is thinking that it's probably just her trying to mark her territory and to show that their relationship is... demarcated without being openly hostile.

I'm probably overthinking this, yes? Please tell me I'm just overthinking this.

[Pyrian]

Accept the request? :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Accept the request? :smalltongue:

I already did.

Unfortunately I didn't know if I should do anything else so I panicked and sent a "Hello, heard about that birthday bash you planned which was particularly impressive, nice work that," followup message.

:smallfrown::smallsigh: I don't even know why I feel like I did the wrong thing there.

I think my functional intelligence might be inhibited by the sleep deprivation of the cross country bus trip.

[Jalor]

It's been a long time since I've posted here, and I don't plan on sticking around long after this, but I need advice URGENTLY (within an hour if at all possible) and can't just get it from a friend - I have the most experience out of all my currently online friends. I only knew one other place I could go, so here I am.

I had a rather unusual date planned for tomorrow (details would only overcomplicate), after which the two of us would join up with a group of mutual friends to see a movie. Everything seems to be going great, but then she messages me on Facebook. Her exact words:
Also, would it okay if I bring a friend of mine? She's all depressed and that jazz

It's possible that she just means the movie, in which case everything is fine, but if she doesn't then I have a problem. Ordinarily I would just say no, this is our time and not hers, but the arrangement of events throws a monkey wrench into that. I'm not worried as much about the date as I am about the movie afterwords, since the wrong move could end in drama of the worst sort. What in the Nine Hells do I say?

(Sorry if I'm ranting or not making much sense, I am in a hurry and have numerous distractions)

[shadow_archmagi]

(What in the Nine Hells do I say?)

"Wait, are you wanting to bring your friend on the date, or just to the movie?"

[Jalor]

"Wait, are you wanting to bring your friend on the date, or just to the movie?"

Captain Obvious swoops in to save Captain oblivious once again. Thank you.

[Jokasti]

"I'm cool with trying new things." :smallcool:

[Pyrian]

Unfortunately I didn't know if I should do anything else so I panicked and sent a "Hello, heard about that birthday bash you planned which was particularly impressive, nice work that," followup message.

:smallfrown::smallsigh: I don't even know why I feel like I did the wrong thing there.Off-hand, I'd say your message was more friendly than flirty, which may not be the effect you're looking for. Messages like that (especially on Facebook) tend to be read and ignored rather than stimulate conversation. Asking a question which doesn't have an appropriate yes/no answer would be a good idea. Maybe something directly flirtatious as well - her response (or lack thereof) would give you a very quick indication of your chances.

...Or you could just ask for her number. :smallcool:

[Superglucose]

So I have good news:

The girl I was upset about not getting the number of?

She got her friend to go onto the XKCD fora and pm me. THIS IS NOT A LOST CAUSE!

(Unfortunately, she's the only girl (and quite cute) in a circle of 5 guys. I'm in heavy competition, as in, none of them are going to like the fact that I'm hedging in on "their" girl, and I'm fairly sure she's not with any of the guys considering she spent the whole time with us instead of them, which means that she's probably not interested in them, so you know...)

Solution? "Can I has docs on the lot of you? I go to the bay area a lot and would love to hang out with you guys again."

If this message doesn't turn up what I need I'll be blunt: Kim's number plox.

[Coidzor]

^: Wait, what? She had a friend hunt you down online and yet you don't have her contact info?

GET IT. GET IT FROM THE FRIEND WHO HUNTED YOU DOWN, EVEN. @_@

That's like, the clearest sign of interest I've ever received from a girl. That's how I knew that my ex-fiance was in to me for reals when she managed to find me through mutual LiveJournal friends and get my AIM info. Not a week later and we were dating, haha.

Just, uh, show a bit more restraint and don't let yourselves get carried away on the first date. Going on auto-pilot and taking a virgin's top off in the middle of a heated makeout can, uh, lead to potential complications. Which in my case, fortunately, just meant she made me wait even longer to get back to second base just to watch me squirm.
Off-hand, I'd say your message was more friendly than flirty, which may not be the effect you're looking for. Messages like that (especially on Facebook) tend to be read and ignored rather than stimulate conversation. Asking a question which doesn't have an appropriate yes/no answer would be a good idea. Maybe something directly flirtatious as well - her response (or lack thereof) would give you a very quick indication of your chances.

...Or you could just ask for her number. :smallcool:

Wait, are you recommending I try to seduce her and by extension her girlfriend who I was interested in to begin with?

Hmm. I hadn't actually considered actually trying for that. The thought is both terrifying and yet like blinders have been taken off of my eyes.

[Pyrian]

:smallcool: Well, that might work, too. But in review I'm not sure which girl is which from your posts. If you're Facebook friended to the "wrong" one, surely you can mine her profile for the "right" one?

[Superglucose]

^: Wait, what? She had a friend hunt you down online and yet you don't have her contact info?
Well that is me being a bit overly dramatic. The guy made an account on the XKCD fora and as far as I can tell he waited 2 days, made 0 posts, and the only thing he's done is send me a PM saying "I'm from the group from Stanford" because I was looking for the group from Stanford.

But, you know... me and my friend were spending the whole time with this girl and the girl seemed interested, and my friend did say to her, "Get on the fora and pm superglucose."



GET IT. GET IT FROM THE FRIEND WHO HUNTED YOU DOWN, EVEN. @_@

Working on it.

[Coidzor]

:smallcool: Well, that might work, too. But in review I'm not sure which girl is which from your posts. If you're Facebook friended to the "wrong" one, surely you can mine her profile for the "right" one?

I no talk too good, sorry.

So. Girl...Let's say, Alicja. So, meet Alicja, hit it off with her, have huge hots for her but want to ask her out on date next time I see her. Unfortunately don't see her again even with trying to do so before winter break, then find out she moved back to her hometown over winter break and so is outside of my ability to travel easily to visit. Resign self to seeing what happens via telecommunications and such. Still get along very well and make a few attempts to get together that get aborted by her work or her brother moving back in with her family after his fiance had a psychotic episode and had to be committed or something. Eventually I start casually seeing another girl while still hoping that I can find a job and a car to be able to visit her often enough to be able to have any basis with which to ask her out.

Anyway, about the same time she finds out I've been having some casual dates she gets herself a girlfriend. Let's call her... Patricia.

Now, before I really knew what was what with Alicja and Patricia, I had a convo with Alicja where we both aired out our mutual attraction for one another, starting with how we met because when we were on our bus to commute to school together, neither of us could keep our eyes off of the other. So, I'm pretty sure Alicja knows for a fact that I at least did have the major hots for her and the only thing that's changed is that she has a girlfriend.

Presumably, since Patricia knows of my existence at all, I'm assuming that she knows about the whole me wanting Alicja so much it's not even funny.

As a result, when I got a friend request from Patricia, I didn't know what exactly to make of it, or really what to say to her to get things off diplomatically in the hopes that at least some kind of cordial contact could be established.

I'm very much heavily of the mindset that it's at least partially a way of her asking me to back off of Alicja while Patricia is dating her by making herself known to me as one of the potential people who might try to make a move on Alicja due to being a known factor who has already been revealed to want to both do her and date her.

[Pyrian]

:smalleek: Oh. Yes, that's much clearer.

Does Patricia have a Facebook gender preference listed? If she's bi, too, you should totally go for the threesome. :smallcool:

[Superglucose]

Operation: Keep My Friend Alive has begun in ernest.

Her cancer might be returning, and she doesn't want to go through that again.

Dear Whomever,

Why in the name of hell does my friend have to suffer breast cancer at age 15, lose her family because they went to visit her one winter, and then suffer a resurgence? Take me instead please, give me some of that **** you're dumping on her. She's an amazingly wonderful person, and you need to treat her accordingly.

**** you,

Superglucose

[Serpentine]

"lose her family"?

[Superglucose]

Her family was driving to visit her and was in a car crash. None survived. So she was dumped with NO FAMILY in an ICU trying to survive breast cancer. At age 15.

Sometimes I hate the world.

But I love her to death. She is so strong and wonderful, though she's convinced no guy could ever love her because of the scars on her chest. She's wrong. She's wonderful and amazing and she should have an equally wonderful and amazing guy sweep her off her feet.

Not me though, I odn't speak dutch.

[Serpentine]

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's extreme.

[term1nally s1ck]

If I spoke dutch, I'd consider asking for some kind of contact info. As crazy as it sounds, I've started to think that the only women who would be anywhere near strong enough for me to be interested are those who've suffered a similar amount to myself. I can't stand the women who go on and on about some little piece of gossip like it's the only thing that matters to them, I'm looking for someone who will happily walk down a street with me and just be happy that we're alive, and I know they're out there (I've met 2-3).

All I can say is that she WILL find someone amazing. If she's survived that she has a strength of personality that the very best of guys find incredibly attractive, and she'll run into one one day.

[Syka]

Lightturtle, seriously...I can't say this enough- get professional help. I'm not a psychologist, but what you described sounds a lot like what happened to a friend of mine with schizophrenia. Obsessive thoughts, voices urging him to hurt others, memory loss around the time of onset, etc.

Even if it's not something that serious, you need help. A bit of advice: what with the voices and all, they'll likely put you on an anti-psychotic. These can sometimes have pretty icky side effects (one particular drug made my friend constantly shake and made him unable to be around groups of people longer than about an hour). Additionally, some may not work for you. Do NOT be afraid to let your doctor know if the medicine isn't working, if that is the route they decide to take, because it's YOUR health.


Coid, that...well, it's actually very likely she's marking territory AND/OR actually extending an olive branch. It could be both or either. In befriending That Girl on Myspace, it was partly a "Hey, look, we're happy. Back off." but also a "Well, my boyfriend is friends with you so there must be something cool, lets talk." My advice? Actually engage in conversation with Patricia. The fact you sent the first message is very good in that respect.

Just...make no moves on Alijcia. Patricia would likely not like that.

Also, bi does not open to threesomes make. :smalltongue: I mean, she might be open, but...unless you know for sure their stance, I'd avoid that. :smallwink:

[loopy]

Anyone have any advice on being torn between three girls? :smalleek:

[Umael]

Anyone have any advice on being torn between three girls? :smalleek:

Avoid the ones with sharp teeth and claws.

[J.Gellert]

Anyone have any advice on being torn between three girls? :smalleek:

Yes, remember that you need to switch protection between them.

[Lillith]

Her family was driving to visit her and was in a car crash. None survived. So she was dumped with NO FAMILY in an ICU trying to survive breast cancer. At age 15.

Sometimes I hate the world.

But I love her to death. She is so strong and wonderful, though she's convinced no guy could ever love her because of the scars on her chest. She's wrong. She's wonderful and amazing and she should have an equally wonderful and amazing guy sweep her off her feet.

Not me though, I odn't speak dutch.
Dutch can always be learned. For one there are some Dutch people on this forum (including myself) else you can buy like 'Dutch for Dummies'. :smallwink:

[loopy]

I meant emotionally torn, but thanks for the sage advice, Playgrounders. :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

^: Well, you have to examine your feelings for them, why you have the feelings you do, and contemplate the nature of the feelings for each.

Then you have to do calculus to determine who it is you want and whether the opposition to it is sufficient to actually change your answer to who you'll go after instead.

Now if you get into a tie in the middle of this process, I sadly don't know of how to break the deadlock other than continuing casually with them and seeing how things develop.
Coid, that...well, it's actually very likely she's marking territory AND/OR actually extending an olive branch. It could be both or either. In befriending That Girl on Myspace, it was partly a "Hey, look, we're happy. Back off." but also a "Well, my boyfriend is friends with you so there must be something cool, lets talk." My advice? Actually engage in conversation with Patricia. The fact you sent the first message is very good in that respect.

Just...make no moves on Alijcia. Patricia would likely not like that.

Also, bi does not open to threesomes make. :smalltongue: I mean, she might be open, but...unless you know for sure their stance, I'd avoid that. :smallwink:

Indeed. I'm just... I dunno, completely out of my element here. I've never even had something similar happen with a heterosexual relationship before, so, yeah, first time completely. It being new to me means I don't know what to make of it and I'm one of those losers who has difficulty when first encountering something new because it's new rather than for any actual legitimate reason.

I hate having my brain setup sometimes. Is so weird, I love exploring, but when it comes to having to do new things or interpersonal stuff, uncharted territory or things I've never done before and am not completely sure of my abilities and knowledge terrify and vex me despite my best efforts to A. stop being a social **** wit and B. stop being a perfectionist at all.

I guess part of me just hates the feeling that it might be something coordinated by the both of them as some kind of test to determine whether to completely break off contact with me or not.

I hate the feeling of being tested or under the microscope. It sorta brings up the dim memories of my ancestors and their barbarian rage.

And Yeah, most of me (that is, the parts that actually think rather than trying to slide through life like a dagger) doubts they'd be receptive, given the stereotype of people either fantasizing about such things about them or trying for 'em, at least not at this stage. See, I thought they were rather loveydovey when I only saw Alicja's facebook page. Now that I see Patricia's too. @_@ Just...:smalleek: It sorta makes me want to curl up and die, and I can't tell if that's the jealousy talking or my lack of stomach for such extreme public things.

[Superglucose]

If I spoke dutch, I'd consider asking for some kind of contact info. As crazy as it sounds, I've started to think that the only women who would be anywhere near strong enough for me to be interested are those who've suffered a similar amount to myself. I can't stand the women who go on and on about some little piece of gossip like it's the only thing that matters to them, I'm looking for someone who will happily walk down a street with me and just be happy that we're alive, and I know they're out there (I've met 2-3).
If you were able to speak dutch or anywhere near the Netherlands I would give it to you. She's totally fluent in english else I wouldn't be able to talk to her (what do you call someone who can only speak one language? american. Yadda yadda) and it's not like it's *hard* to talk to her at all. She just wants to live in the Netherlands, and I am not willing to live in a country who's language I do not speak. At the very least, she could use a friend or two to hang out with outside of school.



All I can say is that she WILL find someone amazing. If she's survived that she has a strength of personality that the very best of guys find incredibly attractive, and she'll run into one one day.
I know. She is also extremely pretty with a very mature look and the most excellent dreads you will ever see. This girl is a catch but no one in that country seems to realize it :smallwink:



Dutch can always be learned. For one there are some Dutch people on this forum (including myself) else you can buy like 'Dutch for Dummies'. :smallwink:
It could be learned, but how well? I'm terrible at learning new languages. Plus there are other reasons I want to live in California. First, pretty much my whole family is here or Arizona, second, the geography here is amazing.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Frist, you've prolly thought about this a lot, but think over it again, moving to another country(Especially inter-continental) is a really big step(even more so if only to support a girl(Even if you think she's awesome and such))

The geography in the Netherlands...Well sucks, unless you like water, loads of it. We mainly have cities and farmland. Family is important, especially if you have strong bonds with them, soo...yeah.

Maybe you could look up other dutch immigrants or something in the area/state?

Dutch is reasonably easy to learn the basics of. I strongly recommend starting to learn before you move. The dutch are pretty accepting of foreigners/americans moving in and most of us speak english(Not fluently but good enough).
Your biggest problem is, is that as soon as we notice a accent or a lacking dutch, most of us will switch over to english to ''help you'' or whatever and this might be troubling for your learning dutch.(Or the occasional case of their english being bad)

Lillith: You should come to the next Dutch Meet-up, whenever that is.:smalltongue:

[Superglucose]

EDIT: Just realized the misconception.

This girl is fluent in english. Well fluent enough, at least. She misses out on some of the nuances of the language at times and her vocabulary surprises me sometimes considering the quality of her grammar (as in, her vocabulary isn't as big as I would expect from someone who had that grasp on grammar). As I've told her many times, it's depressing that her English is better than half the idiots in my honors english class (no joke) back in high school.

When i say "someone will sweep her off her feet, but not me because I don't speak dutch" I mean to say "Someone will sweep her off her feet, but it won't be me because I don't want to live in the Netherlands, and the big reason I veto living in the netherlands is because I don't speak dutch."

As for the family, that's... not an issue. She may have been close with her family, but she has no family now except the nurse who adopted her. Because of all that happened, she is really shy and doesn't think anyone could find her attractive.

[Eadin]

Like Lillith said, dutch is easy to learn
only problem is grammar, dutch grammar lacks logic...

Also, I quite like the Netherlands.And water...
Much better than Belgium, anyway...
But I wouldn't move there because of a girl.
You should visit before you decide things like that ...
If she needs a friend close to the netherlands, you can always give her my info:smalltongue:I'll take her shopping and stuff:smallbiggrin:

[Lillith]

Lillith: You should come to the next Dutch Meet-up, whenever that is.:smalltongue:
Yeah, though I'm not sure if the Dutch community is that big over here. I'm sure that the closest meet up is in the UK. Though over here would be easy, everything is just an hours drive anyway!



EDIT: Just realized the misconception.

This girl is fluent in english. Well fluent enough, at least. She misses out on some of the nuances of the language at times and her vocabulary surprises me sometimes considering the quality of her grammar (as in, her vocabulary isn't as big as I would expect from someone who had that grasp on grammar).
Common misconception is that some other speaking countries don't speak English. I remember when my boyfriend (also an American) came here, I couldn't convince him he didn't have to worry about a language barrier. Most people here are pretty good in English. At least my generation is.



As I've told her many times, it's depressing that her English is better than half the idiots in my honors english class (no joke) back in high school.
Still they can't even spell or use grammar in Dutch. But hell, that's a problem in every country. I hate 'internet speak'. English is an easy language to learn though. I was near fluent when I was 10/11 years old.



As for the family, that's... not an issue. She may have been close with her family, but she has no family now except the nurse who adopted her. Because of all that happened, she is really shy and doesn't think anyone could find her attractive.
Sounds like someone I've heard of via others. I feel kind of bad for her. Things must be so hard on her right now. She's just as old as my students and I can't see them dealing with things like this. :smallfrown:

[Superglucose]

Common misconception is that some other speaking countries don't speak English. I remember when my boyfriend (also an American) came here, I couldn't convince him he didn't have to worry about a language barrier. Most people here are pretty good in English. At least my generation is.

That's mostly not the point though. I wouldn't like to live in a country where I don't speak the native language...and I'm sure I could pick it up if I moved right now, but I can't do that nor do I want to do that. Leave my friends and family for a girl? Nope. Not happening.



Much better than Belgium, anyway...
My grandmother was Belgian and then emmigrated to the US with some US army mechanic who later ended up being my grandfather :smallwink:

[Eadin]

My grandmother was Belgian and then emmigrated to the US with some US army mechanic who later ended up being my grandfather :smallwink:

Awww, that's so cute :smallbiggrin:
Ever been there?

[Superglucose]

Awww, that's so cute :smallbiggrin:
Ever been there?
No I have not. I have been to central America, Hawaii, most of the contiguous 48 states, and British Columbia. I intend to study abroad either during my next couple years of undergrad or during med school/residency/fellowship and take that time to visit all over Europe to do the things I need to do.

So far I have to play drunk Allegiance in Edinburgh, London, and London, have dinner and a movie with Fay Gordon, settle a bet with someone in England as well, have this dutch girl buy me a beer, ski in Austria with a guy named Bathawk, have an all-night movie marathon with a girl in Rome, visit Belgium, have beers with a guy in Croatia, have beers with a guy in Hungary, and convince a guy in Finland to play wingman for me in a Finnish bar while I have wonderfully raccuous arguments with him about everything and anything.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Yeah, though I'm not sure if the Dutch community is that big over here. I'm sure that the closest meet up is in the UK. Though over here would be easy, everything is just an hours drive anyway!


Well considering we've had something like 4-5 meet-ups before.:smallwink:
The big thing is though, most people don't just announce they're dutch or have it in their location. And I'm no that in touch with the newer kids on the block like you.:smalltongue:

Most of us oldies don't post that much anymore(if any) but are still up for meet-ups. So we want to, but don't really get around to organising stuff.

Also the belgian people itp are growing suddenly, I noticed. Weird.:smalltongue:

Glucose: You said it yourself: Not happening.
Perhaps my advice of seeking some native dutch/belgian /speaking people in your area? That might help her''homesickness'' or whatever?
Dunno how I can offer advice on her wanting to move back, you not wanting to go(Very understandable) and you still wanting to help.

[Eadin]

Also the belgian people itp are growing suddenly, I noticed. Weird.:smalltongue:



Really?
The only other Belgian here I know is MrEdwardNigma , who showed me this place...

[Superglucose]

Glucose: You said it yourself: Not happening.
Perhaps my advice of seeking some native dutch/belgian /speaking people in your area? That might help her''homesickness'' or whatever?
Dunno how I can offer advice on her wanting to move back, you not wanting to go(Very understandable) and you still wanting to help.
Oh.

No, she lives in the netherlands right now. I live in California right now.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Really?
The only other Belgian here I know is MrEdwardNigma , who showed me this place...
Ah, knew he was behind it!
There's Captain Happy, and some others I think.
Oh.

No, she lives in the netherlands right now. I live in California right now.
Ah.

[Eadin]

Ah, knew he was behind it!
There's Captain Happy, and some others I think.


lol, really? how?
I shall go introduce myself to Captain Happy now :smallbiggrin:

[Dallas-Dakota]

He's a devious dude he is, just knew he was behind it, met him at one of the meet-ups.

In fact, you should ask him about the next dutch meet-up(he's one of regular attendees)

Which may possibly be held in Antwerpen. Or at my place(hour away by train from Antwerpen)

Anyway, on topiiic.
I have a date tomorrow. I really have no idea what I'm going to do or am supposed to do except be kind and not rude and such.:smalltongue::smalleek:

[Eadin]

He's a devious dude he is, just knew he was behind it, met him at one of the meet-ups.

In fact, you should ask him about the next dutch meet-up(he's one of regular attendees)

Which may possibly be held in Antwerpen. Or at my place(hour away by train from Antwerpen)
Yeah, I know about the meet-ups:smalltongue:, we used to date
I might come if it's not near the end of august...


Anyway, on topiiic.
I have a date tomorrow. I really have no idea what I'm going to do or am supposed to do except be kind and not rude and such.:smalltongue::smalleek:
you've got the basics :)
make sure you look decent and be yourself, that's the most important thing :smallbiggrin:

[The Succubus]

SuperGlucose, I'm actually in a position very similar to yours, or perhaps one step ahead. I'm currently in a LDR with a girl from Denmark and she is the light of my life. Flying out there was one of the easiest things in the world to do, because I really wanted to. The hardest bit was plucking up the courage to kiss her for the first time, given the length of time we've known each other (8 years, on off). I've been out there a further couple of times and she's heading over here in August for a week (at Centreparcs :D). Like your Dutch friend, she's fluent in English and I can speak only a few words of Danish...but I'm trying and that's the key bit. Granted, most of my attempts at pronunciation usually induce fits of giggles from her but it makes me smile when she laughs, so hell with it.

I'm rambling again and I'm sure my personal life isnt that interesting but let me ask you one question:

If you were together, would it make you both happy?

If the answer is "Yes", grab that phrasebook, grab that passport and don't look back. I haven't. =)

*****

DD - My advice to you would be to avoid thinking "date". Thinking "date" is much like thinking "exam" in that it induces excessive amounts of anxiety. which doesn't make things easier. If you think "meeting a friend", it becomes a lot easier and less intimidating. If you play it by ear, so to speak, then your natural personality will show through and that's what she's really interested in finding out about.

Please note that previous relationship advice dispensed by MasamuneSSX has resulted in trauma, psychosis, one incident of arson and two separate weddings. You have been warned.

[shadow_archmagi]

I have a date tomorrow. I really have no idea what I'm going to do or am supposed to do except be kind and not rude and such.:smalltongue::smalleek:

Do you have a sister or something? I find that talking to girls is a great way to finding out all the signals and hidden meanings and crap. Obviously this forum also has girls who can give helpful advice, but one in your area/age-group will probably be your best bet.

Suggestion: Give her a flower. A bouquet might be a bit much for a first date but just a little pink thingummy should do it.

[term1nally s1ck]

.........

Arson??????

[Quincunx]

Arson, indeed. *sniff* All I ever had burned in my name was a forum. :smallfrown:

[Superglucose]

Massume, you're wrong. My situation is this: My friend's cancer is coming back. This isnt' an LDR, this isn't a question of whether or not I'm moving to the netherlands (I'm not) or whether or not I want to date her.

It's simply that I'm not sure how I'm going to help her hold herself together if her cancer comes back.

I'm not in or interested in an LDR (except with one person), I'm not going to move out of the country, and I definitely can't afford to move out of the country.

[Dallas-Dakota]

GlucoseMan: Skype, loads of it, instant visual and verbal contact work much better then other long-distance stuff, especially for things like this. Not to mention that its free. Just try it out?



DD - My advice to you would be to avoid thinking "date". Thinking "date" is much like thinking "exam" in that it induces excessive amounts of anxiety. which doesn't make things easier. If you think "meeting a friend", it becomes a lot easier and less intimidating. If you play it by ear, so to speak, then your natural personality will show through and that's what she's really interested in finding out about.

Please note that previous relationship advice dispensed by MasamuneSSX has resulted in trauma, psychosis, one incident of arson and two separate weddings. You have been warned.
That's what I've been doing, but a friend of hers(Whom I know)and a good friend of mine(both female, if you're wondering) keep talking about it.
Which is like o.0

Edit: Great, top of the page.:smallbiggrin::smallsigh:
I'd talk more, but it'd be just more woes and drama which there really isn't much advice for that I don't know already.

[Eadin]

Edit: Great, top of the page.:smallbiggrin::smallsigh:
I'd talk more, but it'd be just more woes and drama which there really isn't much advice for that I don't know already.

just talk, it always helps
even without advice (and sometimes it's nice to hear it from someone else)

And yeah, girls like to talk about these things
they are probably already planning your wedding :smallbiggrin:

[term1nally s1ck]

Don't scare the poor boy...

[Superglucose]

You litrally cannot handle the truth!

[arguskos]

You litrally cannot handle the truth!
Literally. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

I am harsh because I love you, Supes. :smallwink: Not like that dammit! D:

[Dallas-Dakota]

just talk, it always helps
even without advice (and sometimes it's nice to hear it from someone else)
True, but a good deal of it is heavy stuff and I respect their privacy too much to talk about it to people on the internet, on a public forum.

I might later, about some of the lighter stuff.


And yeah, girls like to talk about these things
they are probably already planning your wedding :smallbiggrin:
True. And my good friend I do have a deal that if we're both still single in 10 years, we're going to get married.:smalltongue
(she and I are 15 and 17 respectively at that, LOL.:smalltongue:)

For those of you who watch scrubs(Those of you that don't go watch it): If I were J.D., she'd be my Turk. Or the other way around.:smalltongue:

[Eadin]

True, but a good deal of it is heavy stuff and I respect their privacy too much to talk about it to people on the internet, on a public forum.

I might later, about some of the lighter stuff.
yeah, I do have that problem too...
names can be changed , but still...

But I like the getting married idea , although 25 and 27 is still young too...
Also, wow you're young...
you make me feel old...
When Edward was talking about the peeps he met at the meet-ups, I was always scared I would be the youngest if I were to go with him...
Dear god, He's even older then I am.Ancient even.I'm gonna pester him about his age ..

[shadow_archmagi]

You litrally cannot handle the truth!

Well, of course he LITERALLY cannot handle it. It's not a tangible object.

[Superglucose]

Name changing is an art form.

[Coidzor]

Me, I like the idea of choosing names from other cultures. Behindthename is a good resource if you want something that'll help you keep them clear in your own mind who they sync up with in the real world while also being a broadening influence on the forum at large.

Panic is a wiggy thing.

[Syka]

they are probably already planning your wedding :smallbiggrin:

Sadly, probably true. :smallsigh: I've been on the wrong end of that sort of deal lol.


DD, what do you have planned for the date?

I advise against flowers (I know a number of people who are allergic, so until you know for sure she isn't...I'd avoid that. And chocolate and stuffed animals and all that cliche stuff). Maybe after a few dates, assuming this first one goes well, do something weird and kinda different. Oz got me a card the first time he came to visit and wrote a little poem inside it and that was completely adorable. Way better than flowers or chocolate. I STILL have that card, 3 years later.


Edit: I just realized Oz and I are fast approaching that 25 and 27 age range (23 and 25 at the moment). I still don't feel old enough to rent my own apartment, let alone get married, lol.

But then, I never did understand the mentality "If I'm not married by X age, I'll do Y (marry for money, marry a good friend, etc)."

[Eadin]

doesn't always help
if they are on the same forum, they'll know you're talking about them...

[arguskos]

ARGH SO ANGRY DAMMIT! :smallfurious:

Ok, so, at a friend's urging, I decided to do something very uncharacteristic: sign up for a dating site I've seen some ads around for. I figured "eh, might as well get out there, do something risky, might go somewhere". Well, I sent this rather lovely seeming girl a message just a bit ago, and she responded. Only... I can't read it. Because I haven't paid them money. I would just pay them for a month and get to the flirting and the whatnot, but I can't, because my new debit card (old bank account was closed for inactivity, just got it reopened+stocked, ordered a new card) is in the mail! :smallfurious:

I feel like a dumbass, especially because this girl looks really REALLY interesting (and rather pretty to boot). I had a good interest-grabbing message too! AUGHSOSTUPID

I really hope the probably multi-day (possibly a week+) delay till I can respond doesn't put her off, but it probably will (it would for me, and it's not unreasonable to be put off by such a delay). :smallfrown:

[Eadin]

ARGH SO ANGRY DAMMIT! :smallfurious:

Ok, so, at a friend's urging, I decided to do something very uncharacteristic: sign up for a dating site I've seen some ads around for. I figured "eh, might as well get out there, do something risky, might go somewhere". Well, I sent this rather lovely seeming girl a message just a bit ago, and she responded. Only... I can't read it. Because I haven't paid them money. I would just pay them for a month and get to the flirting and the whatnot, but I can't, because my new debit card (old bank account was closed for inactivity, just got it reopened+stocked, ordered a new card) is in the mail! :smallfurious:

I feel like a dumbass, especially because this girl looks really REALLY interesting (and rather pretty to boot). I had a good interest-grabbing message too! AUGHSOSTUPID

I really hope the probably multi-day (possibly a week+) delay till I can respond doesn't put her off, but it probably will (it would for me, and it's not unreasonable to be put off by such a delay). :smallfrown:
nah
that way, she'll think you have a busy social life or something :smallwink:

EDIT: I also heard some sites send 'fake' messages if you don't use a pay-account
don't know if it's true

[Syka]

You could also maybe send her a message explaining why you can't read her message at the moment (new card in the mail) and give her your email/AIM/what have you. ;) Maybe you'll get out of having to pay, period.



Also, avoid pay-for-talking dating sites. There ARE free ones that I've heard are good (OKCupid and PlentyOfFish, I think...not entirely sure...I think at least one of those is free). Most of the pay ones are just a rip off, especially as a dude.

And don't buy claims of "matching based on deep compatibility." It's bull. Psychologists who have been researching for decades can't even fully describe what makes people tick and work well together. You can be a perfect match on paper (keep in mind...what they match on is only what you consciously know and share about yourself), but be missing something. I've met people whom I should by all accounts have gotten on very well with, yet we ended up completely disliking each other.

[arguskos]

You could also maybe send her a message explaining why you can't read her message at the moment (new card in the mail) and give her your email/AIM/what have you. ;) Maybe you'll get out of having to pay, period.
Can't. The *!&%&!^@*!@%&*! system locks you out. I'm angry, can you tell? :smallsigh:


Also, avoid pay-for-talking dating sites. There ARE free ones that I've heard are good (OKCupid and PlentyOfFish, I think...not entirely sure...I think at least one of those is free). Most of the pay ones are just a rip off, especially as a dude.
Dude, I didn't realize until RIGHT then it was a paysite, since I avoid paying for anything if I can (and I usually can).


And don't buy claims of "matching based on deep compatibility." It's bull. Psychologists who have been researching for decades can't even fully describe what makes people tick and work well together. You can be a perfect match on paper (keep in mind...what they match on is only what you consciously know and share about yourself), but be missing something. I've met people whom I should by all accounts have gotten on very well with, yet we ended up completely disliking each other.
Totally agreed on this one. I'll make my own judgments about who I'm happy with thank you very much! :smallamused:

[Syka]

Might as well talk a risk and try it, then. Message her after you get your card back or whatever and let her know what happened.

...Or have someone else make another account and use it to message her from with your contact info. :smallamused:

(Yes, I dislike pay-for-play dating websites and advocate finding any means by which to not pay.)

[arguskos]

Might as well talk a risk and try it, then. Message her after you get your card back or whatever and let her know what happened.
Going to be SO doing this. Even got it planned out and everything.


...Or have someone else make another account and use it to message her from with your contact info. :smallamused:
...XD TOTALLY want to do that... but don't want to tell anyone I know off-line about this. >_> They'll mock me mercilessly probably.


(Yes, I dislike pay-for-play dating websites and advocate finding any means by which to not pay.)
Amen, amen. :smallsigh:

[Syka]

What about your friends who conned you in to it in the first place?

I'd say a little teasing is OK if you meet someone cool out of it. :smallsmile:

[Superglucose]

And don't buy claims of "matching based on deep compatibility." It's bull. Psychologists who have been researching for decades can't even fully describe what makes people tick and work well together. You can be a perfect match on paper (keep in mind...what they match on is only what you consciously know and share about yourself), but be missing something. I've met people whom I should by all accounts have gotten on very well with, yet we ended up completely disliking each other.
I knew a girl who shared the same taste in movies, TV shows, books, food, activities, morality, world outlook, and pretty much everything else like that. We also happened to have absurdly compatible career goals and lifetime wants.

We broke up.

In other words? Syka is right.

[arguskos]

What about your friends who conned you in to it in the first place?
Net friend. I'll ask, but he'll probably go "pfft, haha, sucks to be you, duuuude" cause that's how he rolls. Course, we'll have a good laugh and roll on like nothing happened.


I'd say a little teasing is OK if you meet someone cool out of it. :smallsmile:
Haha, yeah, this is pretty true. I can ask a buddy.

[Superglucose]

Mmmm... just went and had a burrito with my dad.

Also the girl behind the register was cute. Very cute. And she definitely waved goodbye.

[term1nally s1ck]

Why do you not have her number?

[Superglucose]

Because it's me we're talking about :smallwink:

EDIT: Also because I have a slinking suspicion she's going to the high school with no good way of making sure. What's the best way to ask, "Are you going to Davis High?" Because if she goes to the high school then she's probably too young. But if she's going to the college I look like an idiot.

GAH.

[Coidzor]

Hmm... it would be a bit awkward for me to try to get a girl's name, let alone her number with my father within line of sight.

Re: Highschool thing. See, you can just delete her number later on if it turns out she's in Highschool. At the very least, it's something that you should check before boinking someone.

Sorry for the stupid venting earlier guys, by the way. Hopefully I didn't cause anyone to be neglected with my silliness.

[The Succubus]

Ah, ignore what I said SG - thought you had romantic intentions towards your Dutch friend. DD is more on the money here - Skype is good, video calling over interwebz would be even better - a lot of free programs exist to help but make sure you get a good webcam. If it looks like she has a particularly rough patch coming up, try to fly out and see her if you can, even if its just for a few days. Pretty obvious stuff I know but meh.

[skywalker]

Also because I have a slinking suspicion she's going to the high school with no good way of making sure. What's the best way to ask, "Are you going to Davis High?" Because if she goes to the high school then she's probably too young. But if she's going to the college I look like an idiot.

Dude. You ask if she's at... Wherever the heck the nearby Uni is. If she says "no, I'm at Davis High," you're that (probably college) guy who thought she looked mature enough to be a peer. It's an ego boost for her, and you've done a good deed. If she says "why, yes I do go to school there," then, uh, profit???

[J.Gellert]

Because if she goes to the high school then she's probably too young. But if she's going to the college I look like an idiot.

Naaah, it's a compliment, you know if a woman wants to believably lie about her age, she has to start young :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, are you sure this kind of thing isn't just rationalization for you chickening out a little? I know I used to come up with all sorts of explanations, but eventually you need to get over this kind of excuse to start talking to people.

[Moonshadow]

Couple of minor things.

1) It's that time of the month for my girlfriend, but she seems different to how she usually is, and I'm wondering if that could be attributed due to the fact that she skipped her last period via contraception because she had a big scout camp that she was a leader on that would have fallen smack dab in the middle of her period, and freezing cold + blood = not a happy camper. I'm slightly concerned about her, and just wonder if it's because of this.

2) Girlfriend thinks that my money is somehow worth more than hers because I work my butt off for it, yet still live paycheck to paycheck, while she has a fair amount of cash due to inheritance, etc. I'd like to gently convince her that money is worth the same amount regardless of how it's obtained, but I'm unsure how to word it.

Danke for the help :smallsmile:

[Totally Guy]

I just asked a girl out!

She was already seeing someone.

At least I'm able to do it when the opportunity comes. But unfortunately the opportunities are very few and far between.

[Quincunx]

1) . . .You're even thinking about this?! :smallsigh: It's womanhood. It requires diagnosis about as much as random half-hearted erections do, that is to say not at all.

2) Ok, this is, if it exists in her own head and given you are making #1 into a problem I am not sure that it is, a legitimate concern. Again, and more gently this time, the problem may be more in your own head (as the wage-earner A) than in hers (as the guaranteed income B). We could ease the problem with doing as little with joint accounts as possible--bill A was always to be paid by person A, bill B by person B, etc.--but there wasn't anything we found to lessen the fact that A had uncertainty about income and B did not. B had to derive more self-worth from being a creator, whereas A could coast on the knowledge that life was spent earning income.

[Syka]

Glug, good for you. :) You know that you can do it now, and you gave her a very nice compliment in the mean time.


Naoto:

1. What kind of problems? On my low-dose Pill, I've never had issues skipping periods (I've been doing so for a year on this Pill). On the regular dose Pill, I had few issues when doing the normal period-every-month deal, but when I went to continuous (skipping periods), it went downhill. Some physical, some mental. Switching back to a low-dose alleviated those problems.

Also, if she's never skipped before it may just be her body adjusting to it. Keep in mind- it's USED to the period-every-month thing. Even though the period on the Pill is not medically the same as a period off the Pill, your body has trouble recognizing that sometimes. For instance, I've been doing a period every three months. Every month, without fail, around the time I "should" have a period I end up getting some minor cramping. In this case, her body might be making up for lost time, so to speak.

It can't hurt to talk to a doctor, though. Whenever my body does something weird I ask my mom and if she doesn't know, my doc gets a call, lol.

2. I understand where she's coming from. Yes- money is money. But if you feel you have done nothing to earn it it makes you feel bad when you are with people who did work to earn it- especially when said people want to treat you to something. What you can tell her, if that's the problem, is that you make the money so that you can do stuff you want with it. And what you want to do with it is make her happy. Ergo, she should let you spend it on her. :smallwink:

[Totally Guy]

Glug, good for you. :) You know that you can do it now, and you gave her a very nice compliment in the mean time.

Yep.

But clearly my current life pattern is not one that frequently crosses paths with girls, that are single and like guys.

When I do try to break out of that I just end up in the city centre shops where the ubiquity of the crowds make me feel very alone.

[Superglucose]

Naaah, it's a compliment, you know if a woman wants to believably lie about her age, she has to start young :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, are you sure this kind of thing isn't just rationalization for you chickening out a little? I know I used to come up with all sorts of explanations, but eventually you need to get over this kind of excuse to start talking to people.
Well I wish it wasn't a rationalization but it's happened like three times now and I'm kind of sick of "So, are you going to school here?" "Nah, I'm a high school student" "Well that's wonderful! I'll be going off now trying not to seem like a creepy pedo..." *sprints off into the sunsest*

[Syka]

Well I wish it wasn't a rationalization but it's happened like three times now and I'm kind of sick of "So, are you going to school here?" "Nah, I'm a high school student" "Well that's wonderful! I'll be going off now trying not to seem like a creepy pedo..." *sprints off into the sunsest*

I never thought of people who did that as pedo's. Heck, when I was 15 I had a guy think I was a sophomore at the college we were at (it was for a concert thing). It was flattering rather than creepy, mostly because the mild flirting he'd previously been doing stopped. Had he kept going (like I had another guy do later that year), that is when it moves in to creeper territory.

[Pyrian]

Quincunx: I don't think I should sig that (half-hearted...), but I would've. :smallbiggrin:

Superglucose: Don't let it throw you! The vast, vast majority of potential relationships don't work out but we need to keep trying. :smallcool:

[Superglucose]

**** it I'll go for it. Besides, if I recall correctly she's been working there for at least a year and a half now (I go intermittently) and I know from experience that the youngest person they hire is 16.

[Coidzor]

Well I wish it wasn't a rationalization but it's happened like three times now and I'm kind of sick of "So, are you going to school here?" "Nah, I'm a high school student" "Well that's wonderful! I'll be going off now trying not to seem like a creepy pedo..." *sprints off into the sunsest*

Hm. This exit strategy you have for disentangling yourself from awkwardness seems to only breed further awkwardness.

Needs review and possibly modification by the joint chiefs of staff.

[Superglucose]

Perhaps if I tried it earlier in the day?

[Umael]

Super: You can try something like this:

"Hey, I was wondering something and I was hoping you could answer. So first, is it okay with you if I ask a semi-not-really-personal question? Okay? Great. So I was thinking that either you are very cute and in college, in which case I want to ask you out, or you're in high school, in which case I cry because asking you out makes me look like a creep. So... which is it?"

[Superglucose]

Alternatively just ask her out and then find out what she's doing/planning on doing/etc. during the coffee-drinking/walk-taking/whatever-doing meeting and then hastily change my intentions based on the information gathered.

[Eadin]

yeah, that should work...

[Dallas-Dakota]

We hung out for eleven hours.

And it was awesome.:smallcool:
Yeah, just telling you guys.:smalltongue:

[Eadin]

Yaaaay for DD :smallbiggrin:

[Superglucose]

I think after much deliberation that I may have a burrito for dinner :smallbiggrin:

(I better put the whole rejection process up a few days, right? Faster I do it, faster I get shot down, faster I get over it)

[Eadin]

I want a burrito...
why go for rejection?

[Superglucose]

I'd be willing to buy you one if you were closer. I mean seriously, a veggie burrito is $4.50 a pop where I'm going, that's pocket change! But a flight out to Belgium costs about what, $1100? $1104.50 is a bit pricey for a burrito. They're pretty good, but they're not that good.

That got me to thinking as well, what are people's "standards" for dating? Me, personally, it takes a lot for me to be interested in a girl to the point where I'd ask her out. But part of the reason rejection sucks so much for me is because it would similarly take a lot for me to be so disinterested in a girl that I'd say "no." I mean if any guy or girl was like, "Do you want to hang out?" my initial reaction is always "Yes," even before checking my schedule. If it turns out I'm not interested in dating them, I can just say "Sorry, I only like you as a friend." But honestly, most of a relationship isn't about the physical beauty, it's about who the people are... and saying "no" before you even know a person strikes me as premature.

Of course I know a girl who refuses to date anyone she's not already friends with. I think she's nuts, that would not work for me at all. How about any of you? What's your opinion?

As for the rejection thing? I find joking about a situation makes it easier. Humor, as they say, is a defense mechanism for me. If my jokes start to seem forced, it's probably time to start hugging me and telling me everything's ok. Except the jokes I force just because I want to be funny but actually I'm not so all my jokes seem forced. Those are ok :smallwink:

[Pyrian]

why go for rejection?It's like DM'ing. You're not trying to make an encounter that'll wipe out the entire party. You're just trying to make it difficult enough that they get some decent XP and a sense of accomplishment in fending you off. ...Or maybe that's just me? :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Honestly, I'd rather just be myself and get rejected for that than put a whole lot of effort into doing things "right" and still get rejected. :smalltongue: But I suppose I'm kind of absurdly bitter about it all, these days.

[arguskos]

Of course I know a girl who refuses to date anyone she's not already friends with. I think she's nuts, that would not work for me at all. How about any of you? What's your opinion?
I'll only date someone I actually like as a person and/or would be friends with otherwise. I won't say no to going out a few times, but to make it more serious requires that I actually like them. :smalltongue:

[Superglucose]

I'll only date someone I actually like as a person and/or would be friends with otherwise. I won't say no to going out a few times, but to make it more serious requires that I actually like them. :smalltongue:
I don't disagree with that, but what I'm talking about is an attitude wherein she will not even go on a first date with you unless you've previously been friends.

By the by, girl I was going for at the restaurant wasn't working. I elected to throw caution to the wind and throw out the line on the asian girl from the XKCD meetup.

I also kind of am starting to feel sleazy. I seriously am not interested in dating more than one girl at a time! But I'm not dating any of them! So it's not like I'm being polygamous! I swear! Serpentine makes matters slightly worse :smallyuk: :smallwink: :smallbiggrin: but honestly, I'm just looking for some quality companionship. So far I have found none.

[Coidzor]

haha. Completely different game in terms of looking for a date.

[MountainKing]

I need someone to drop a great big tactical nuke into my mind. Just, wipe everything out and leave me empty. I feel awful; I want off this goddamned emotional rollercoaster.

I just want to be friends with her again... I'm giving her some space now, as of yesterday, but... it hurts. It feels like I've physically distanced myself from my heart (which, oddly enough, is NOT off to the left side of my chest; it sure as Hell feels like it's dead in the center...).

I know, I'm probably too attached... that, maybe I should walk away... but I can't. I genuinely care about this girl. As frustrating as it can be, I have some kind of tunnel vision; now that I've met her, she is unshakably set in my eyes. Other women are just that; other women. I don't mean it to sound creepy, it's just how it feels. None of them seem to compare, and while I know that, were I to just sever everything, in time, that would fade... I also don't *want* them to compare.

She told me the night before yesterday that she doesn't know if she'd want to see me again... I haven't been able to untwist my stomach since.

...I want my friend back... I want her to be happy... I want to hear her say she loves me again... I want this cluster**** to end, so everything can go back to normal...

Sorry. I don't know if this is really the appropriate thread. Maybe it isn't. It's not a follow-up to my last couple posts concerning this matter... more like an aftermath... :smallfrown:

[Syka]

Mountainking, I'm sorry. :smallfrown: It sucks when things can't go back to normal.


Super, if I have not had so much as even superficial interactions with someone, I won't go on a date. Cold calls don't sit well with me. Some stranger on the street approaches me to tell me I'm attractive? I'm flattered. To actually ask me out? Not happening.

If it's a situation where there has been some previous interactions, even something like a customer I've seen a few times, I would maybe do it. In general, I'd prefer to have had more rather than less interactions prior to going on a date or really anything delving into a romantic relationship. The best way to approach me would be as a friend, rather than prospective romantic partner.

[J.Gellert]

I know, I'm probably too attached... that, maybe I should walk away... but I can't.

Yes, you can. I can't say anything else, except that everyone's at that point eventually (I should know, got it twice).

Bottom line is, yes you should walk away, no it's not easy, but you can do it. Mankind has been doing that kind of thing for generations. And it beats being Mr Clingy Guy who can't let go.

[Syka]

Currently having issues coming to terms with the fact that I am old enough to have attended school and grown up with people who now have multiple children. At least one couple is pregnant with their third, another's wife is pregnant with their second. :smalleek: These people are my age.

I mean...wow. I just can't believer we're old enough. My sister getting married has elicited similar responses from me.

I'm going to go play Pokemon Blue now...:smallamused:

[Pyrian]

I'm 36 and have a friend my age who's a grandparent. :smallamused:

[arguskos]

I'm 36 and have a friend my age who's a grandparent. :smallamused:
...what.

Ok, so they had a kid at 18, and their spawn did as well, and so they're a grandparent at 36. :smalleek:

That's messed up dude.

Also, the girl I dated in my senior year of high school had a kid like a year ago. That was a good "mind=blown" moment.

[Superglucose]

I mean...wow. I just can't believer we're old enough. My sister getting married has elicited similar responses from me.
One of my friends is engaged. This is absurd and freaking me out because every time I think about it I go, "WTF He's ENGAGED!" and my other friends go "Yeah, that's pretty much how we react." And I'm several years younger than you >.<

ALso I know a girl my age who has a little boy who she had at 18.


I'm going to go play Pokemon Blue now...:smallamused:
I may be in the minority but I think that series peaked in the second generation.

[Syka]

How old are you, Super? I could sworn I saw somewhere on here that you're 21. oO I mean...you can't be THAT much younger than I (I'm 23).

I've long passed by the "shocked at engagement" phase for people my age, lol. That was pretty much over when my sister (2 years younger than I) got engaged at 19. It didn't help that one of HER friends got married BEFORE my sister got engaged.




Also, Blue is nostalgia for me. I, admittedly, loved Silver and even Crystal. I haven't played any since 3rd Gen, though. Probably because I only have a GBColor, lol. My sister has still shelled out for the new gen pokemon games, though. Apparently it's still very popular among the college group as evidenced by the many people my sister runs in to with PokeWalkers like her.

[Superglucose]

I'm 20 and I feel my age for a variety of reasons, mostly concerning my 7 year old little brother.

And if you knew the guy I was talking about, you'd be like, "He's... engaged? What?"

I occasionally get off my butt and play on Netbattle, but other than that I don't do much Pokemon anymore. In 3rd gen I could build a party in my mind, and in 4th gen I haven't been able to do so... I just don't know what's out there anymore. Playing the games through once or twice helps you learn what's out there in terms of type coverage and stats...

[Jokasti]

I may be in the minority but I think that series peaked in the second generation.

Is it still a minority if you are alone? :smalltongue:

[Syka]

:smalltongue: That ain't several years younger, lol.


I feel ya, though. I know a girl who got engaged a few weeks back and Oz and I took bets on how long the engagement will last. >> Yeah...But that can happen at any age.

This is more of an "oh man...we're old enough to make life long commitments, as well as be entrusted with another's life. Well...crap. I still don't feel confident enough to take care of myself."

[arguskos]

I'm 21 and I feel my age for a variety of reasons, mostly concerning my 2 year old little brother.
Numbers changed to reflect the current poster. :smallwink:

Also, lolPokemans. I liked the 3rd Gen remake of the original (FireRed/LeafGreen), and LeafGreen is actually my favorite (it's the original, but nice graphics and in color!). Crystal's my second favorite though, not gonna lie. Everything pre-Crystal rocks, everything post-Crystal (sans the remakes) sucks horrifically.

[MountainKing]

One of my friends is engaged. This is absurd and freaking me out because every time I think about it I go, "WTF He's ENGAGED!" and my other friends go "Yeah, that's pretty much how we react." And I'm several years younger than you >.<

ALso I know a girl my age who has a little boy who she had at 18.

I may be in the minority but I think that series peaked in the second generation.

Hahaha, what? I have two friends who are married, two friends who are engaged, one friend who has HAD their first kid, one who has a kid on the way, and when I was 18 I dated a single mom. :smalltongue: I'm 23 now; having such distinct memories of the night I gave up my virginity makes it feel kind of weird that it was five years ago.

So don't feel so bad. :smallsmile:

[Pyrian]

Ok, so they had a kid at 18, and their spawn did as well, and so they're a grandparent at 36. :smalleek:I think it was more like 16-17 in each case.


That's messed up dude.Indeed. It certainly caps the spread, so to speak. But it makes it hard to shock me any more. I have friends who've been married and divorced twice... Who are grandparents... And so on. (Oddly, while I do have one ex-living ex-roommate, I haven't had any friends die yet.)

[MountainKing]

...wait... what? How does that work, Pyrian? If you don't mind me asking, that is.

[Pyrian]

Hmm? Which part of that?

[Jokasti]

When a mommy and a daddy love each other very much....

[MountainKing]

The ex-living but nobody has died bit.

[Umael]

The ex-living but nobody has died bit.

The roommate is the ex who died, not one of his friends.

I recall a few years after I graduated finding out that someone who was in the same class as me died in a mountain-climbing accident. Sombering to think about that.

[Pyrian]

A person with whom I shared an apartment for a few months died shortly thereafter. He was not a friend; in fact, he was barely an acquaintance, and I hardly ever saw him even while we lived in the same place. Yet that's the closest I've come to having a peer die (my grandparents are all long gone, though).

[MountainKing]

Ah. I had thought you meant the former room-mate was also a friend; hence the confusion.

[Superglucose]

Well I threw caution to the wind and just flat out came clean with the guy who has the number of the girl I seek. We'll see if that turns out ok.

Dutch friend turned out to be all right, in fact, better than all right! She gets to reduce her regimen of pills because her body's doing better than expected! I'm so happy for her I could scream.

[MeatShield#236]

All this talk about feeling old make me feel young. (If that make any sense.) I'm only 16. Course that might change... (I'll be 17 in a month.:smalleek:)

[skywalker]

I think it was more like 16-17 in each case.

My ex-girlfriend knew an interesting girl, call her Sandra. Sandra's mother was 16 when she had Sandra. Sandra's grandmother had been 16 when she had Sandra's mother, and Sandra's great-grandmother had been 16 when she had Sandra's grandmother. In middle school, Sandra swore she wasn't even having sex until she was 18, to break the cycle. A glance at her Myspace 4 years later revealed that 15(!) year old Sandra was having a baby. :frown:


Indeed. It certainly caps the spread, so to speak. But it makes it hard to shock me any more. I have friends who've been married and divorced twice... Who are grandparents... And so on. (Oddly, while I do have one ex-living ex-roommate, I haven't had any friends die yet.)

Had one of the unfortunate car accident deaths at my high school, senior year. That was pretty rough. My dad still freaks out that his peers are dying, and he's 53...

[Zeb The Troll]

I'm 36 and have a friend my age who's a grandparent. :smallamused:

Ok, so they had a kid at 18, and their spawn did as well, and so they're a grandparent at 36. :smalleek:

That's messed up dude.In August, my daughter will celebrate her 22nd AFONAL day and I will celebrate my 39th a week and a half later. The GrandTroll turned 3 in January.

If we get into "grandparents by marriage" territory, GrandTroll was born the year Alarra turned 26. :smalltongue:

[Superglucose]

Someone killed himself in my 8th grade class. I was supposed to be super sad about it because everyone was wearing black or whatever to signify the passing of this noble hero...

who's method of introducing himself to me was to bite my arm. In 7th grade.

EDIT: I hate guys. I'm like 90% sure this guy is interested in Kim and that's why he's not responding to me at all :smallyuk: Just any response would be fine even if it was the lie of "She's not interested" (or if that was the truth, but my point is, AT LEAST LIE). I can see that you've logged in like five times and still made 0 posts.

Just gimme her number :P

[skywalker]

Someone killed himself in my 8th grade class. I was supposed to be super sad about it because everyone was wearing black or whatever to signify the passing of this noble hero...

who's method of introducing himself to me was to bite my arm. In 7th grade.

Still sad when a person dies...

[Superglucose]

If I were to be sad with every death that ever happened, I'd never be able to function. Period.

I hate, hate, hate the idea of mourning the passing of people. Instead, I feel I should celebrate the time we had together. I don't want people to be sad that I'm gone, I want them to be happy that I was here. Only it's a bit difficult to celebrate someone biting me on the arm because I wanted to get into my locker... to whit that's the primary reason I never used my locker in Jr High/High School: I didn't want to get bitten by that one guy so I just didn't use it 7th grade, and the habit stuck with me.

[Marillion]

I am feeling...conflicted.

I've just come out of a particularly nasty break up, which you may remember being posted in the depression thread a few months back, and while I'm still not at 100% (or even 75%) I'm doing better. So that's good. But I'm, ahh...Lonely. Wink wink nudge nudge. And everyone I know who might be interested is in a long term relationship, so I'm certainly not going to bother them. But this isn't a big deal, just a minor frustration.

But then, I have an acquaintance. She's only ever *ahem* experienced her boyfriend, and her boyfriend wants her to *ahem* experience another man. To get it out of her system, so to speak. He's personally given me the go-ahead, which I guess is only fair, seeing as how he *ahem* experienced my ex fiance before she was officially my ex. And while my acquaintance had been having mixed feelings, she told me that if she did go through with it she would want it to be me, and she seems to have resolved those mixed feelings and has also given me the go-ahead. We're both very clear that while it might turn into a recurring thing, in the end, she is endlessly devoted to her boyfriend and I'm not looking for anything long term right now. It would just be an *ahem* experience.

So far, our schedules have kept it from happening, and while I was initially all for it, now that I've gotten some time to think about it, I'm feeling a little uneasy. My longing for "companionship" notwithstanding, I'm not sure how I feel about the whole situation. On the one hand, if they're both ok with it, so am I. But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure that they only THINK they're ok with it, and I wouldn't want to be the thing that drives them apart. Not to mention, what if afterwards her boyfriend just doesn't measure up? I have it on good authority that he is, frankly, terrible, especially when compared to me, and suffice it to say my ex was not the kind of person who would lie about her *ahem* experiences, past or present, to spare my feelings.

I guess what I'm asking is, am I overthinking the whole thing? Should I go for it?


tl;dr: My awesomeness might break my friends up and I'm not sure how I should feel about that.

[Jokasti]

Like 5 people in my school have died and I still have two more years.

[Superglucose]

... what? :smallconfused:

No. This has "bad idea" written all over it in so many ways and languages and fonts and sizes and colors that even *I* would pause before this.

And then I would say "no." And probably "... what?" Maybe even a little bit of "wow you guys are insane."

[Malfunctioned]

@Marillion - To be honest I can't really see of any way that this could go well. There just seems too many ways for something like this to go horribly wrong so I'm just gonna go and say that it would be better for you to refuse.

[Adumbration]

In some months, I'm going to be moving out on my own and start studying in a college.

And why I'm posting this here? I'm feeling intimidated. Not because I'm moving out, and not because I'm going to college. (Well, okay, for those too, but that wouldn't have made the required dramatic entrance.)

Out of all the students entering the college in question - school of veterinary medicine - only two others are male. Out of about 60-70 people. :smalleek:

Any particular advice? I have a feeling I'm going to stand out, and not necessarily in a good way. Horrific images passing through my mind: 1) either or both of the other guys are jerks, 2) I make some sort of embarrasing blunder that will give me a bad reputation (that would make my life a hell for 6 years) or 3), I won't make any new friends and get really really lonely. Or any combination of three. With possible sidedishes of other horror scenarios.

I feel quite ill-equipped for this situation. I can deal with guys, and make good friends over time, but I've never really had female friends for one reason or the other. Situation is also not aided one bit by the fact that I'm usually fairly uneasy around people I don't know, and it shows. I sweat, stutter occasionally and am generally slightly dim-witted and uninteresting.

[Asta Kask]

Like 5 people in my school have died and I still have two more years.

You should move from Sunnydale.

[Superglucose]

Yeah.

My first response is... 57/60 people are FEMALE?!??! Wow. That's an absurd level of gender-imbalance I don't think we've seen since the '50s.

My second response is... chill, and don't worry about it. Over time you'll discover that girls are remarkably similar to guys, and if you look around here you'll find that there are plenty of girls who do things like watch Star Wars/Trek, play D&D, etc., which really just means that hobbies don't actually have gender lines.

Out of 60 people you should be able to find at least one person you can hang out with repeatedly.

[Jokasti]

Marillion: I don't think any part of that plan would work out. Even if everything went according to plan, there would be a level of awkwardness that wouldn't go away.
Adum: While bros are nice, you should probably get used to the idea of a female friend if your class has but three males. I know your situation, my English class last year had three males and twenty seven females. Granted it was only one period, but most of my pals in that class were female.

[Pyrian]

I am feeling...conflicted.Do you want to keep these friends? (If I understand the sequence of events correctly, I would understand if you did not.) Personally, I would run for the hills, but I can't help thinking that (A) you're invited and (B) you've got nothing worthwhile to lose.

[J.Gellert]

Do you want to keep these friends? (If I understand the sequence of events correctly, I would understand if you did not.) Personally, I would run for the hills, but I can't help thinking that (A) you're invited and (B) you've got nothing worthwhile to lose.

I agree with the above. As always, the best way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it.

[Force]

Yeah.

My first response is... 57/60 people are FEMALE?!??! Wow. That's an absurd level of gender-imbalance I don't think we've seen since the '50s.



Nursing is similar. My school is proud of having a 10% male nurse graduation rate as the norm is closer to about 6-7%.

Adumbration, remember that there are lots of people at school other than vet students. You'll be hanging out with a lot of girls (which isn't a bad thing) but you should be taking at least a few classes outside your vet courses. If I remember correctly, a vet degree requires a pre-vet degree (similar to med & pre-med); I'd imagine that's what you're doing now? If so, I'd imagine that a lot of your biology/chemistry courses would include non-vet students and probably a higher proportion of males. What about your gen ed courses?

Finally, there are tons of student organizations on campus. While you won't have a ton of spare time if you want to have good grades, you should have enough to build a few relationships.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Out of all the students entering the college in question - school of veterinary medicine - only two others are male. Out of about 60-70 people. :smalleek:
Wait, that's a BAD thing? :confused:

Any particular advice?
Want a little secret? Girls are just like guys. Act the same way you would with guys and you're all set. Okay, not exactly the same way - avoid rude sexual comments/innuendo and don't burp (or, uhm, "burp" from the other end), but otherwise there's nothing special to it. Be prepared that many more girls will like things like "Princess Barbie Horse Adventures" compared to stuff like Rammstein, UFC and Arnold Shwarzenegger. Don't beat them up for it, they probably feel the same way about "stupid action movies where no-one even falls in love." That's it.

I am feeling...conflicted.

Short answer - Don't. Long answer - Don't, in a million years, unless you really don't care if you're friends or not with the couple. If they really want to, uhm, experience another dude, tell them put up a personal ad or something. That way any potential problems that (will) arise will be kept to the side.

PS: Vancouver is weird. At any given nursing school, at least 30% of the students will be Philippino guys. Not white, not Chinese, not Indian (all three of these are quite rare in nursing) but Philippino. Cultural thing I guess, but still. About half of them either are or just act like they're totally fabulous, if you get my drift. Another cultural thing I guess, quite a few Philippino guys act "fabulous" even when they're straight. Another half are, ahem, enjoying life to its fullest.

[Pyrian]

A friend of mine wanted to throw a "guys night", cooking meat on a stick and watching Conan. Once the womenfolk heard "watching Conan", though, the guys ended up being outnumbered by the, erm, "ladies". :smallamused:

[Umael]

I am feeling...conflicted.

Well... if you are the cause of them breaking up, it would be a measure of karma...

Seriously... talk about it. ALL of it. With them. Don't mention anything negative, just put what you can in the most neutral light, if not a positive one (i.e., not that he is a terrible lover, but if you turn out to be a better lover, what then?).

Bottom line: If all three are okay, it is okay. If one is not okay, it is not okay.

[Superglucose]

I disagree with Umael considerably.

What pyrian said is right on: This whole thing stinks of foul play and I wouldn't even touch the subject. SHe says "the only other guy I'd get with is you" you say "I'm flatterd." He says "I want my girlfriend to experience another guy" you say "Well that's a bit odd but ok."

If there was no history of this polygamy thing getting between you and your friend? I probably wouldn't worry too much about it... but you guys have a history of sleeping with each other's girlfriends. That's what makes this a "hmmmm?" scenario to begin with.

[MountainKing]

I on the other hand, Marillion, have seen relationships with casual, polygamous, whatever-sex work out remarkably well... Okay, I've seen it work well *once*, so, the exception exists.

That's... that's a terrible basis for an argument...

...I'm just gonna snip myself and everything I was going to use to work up to it, and just say, "Talk to them about it, then look at it the way Pyrian suggested you should."

[Superglucose]

I would like to go on record here:

I do not say that polygamy can't work or won't work and have no issues with polygamy. It's just not my cup of tea, but then again, men aren't my cup of tea either and I don't go around telling homosexual men or heterosexual women that their love can't work.

In this case; however, there is a strong and compelling gut feeling that screams at me "DANGER WILL ROBINSON!" There's something vaguely unsettling about the fact that the guy who boinked your girlfriend is saying "I want my gf to experience you." It's especially disturbing that this whole conversation is in your domain.

If I were you, and I am not, I would say "I'm cool with whatever you guys decide, but I don't want to be involved." Not because you or they couldn't handle it, but because something smells fishy.

[Umael]

I disagree with Umael considerably.

So... don't talk with them? Put it in negative terms? It can't be okay even if all three know it is okay? It can be okay even if one thinks it isn't?



What pyrian said is right on: This whole thing stinks of foul play and I wouldn't even touch the subject.

...

You don't believe in polyamory, do you?

(Note: I'm not saying that you are wrong, that everything is roses, but what have you got against communication? He thinks something is up, he needs to proceed with caution, if he does proceed, and a little more information will probably go a long way.)


If there was no history of this polygamy thing getting between you and your friend? I probably wouldn't worry too much about it... but you guys have a history of sleeping with each other's girlfriends. That's what makes this a "hmmmm?" scenario to begin with.

:smallconfused:

How are you getting that there IS a history of polyAMORY getting in the way? Existing, yes, but getting in the way?

(Polygamy is being married to multiple partners at the same time. Polyamory is having multiple lovers.)

[MountainKing]

I think you kinda got ninja'd, Umael. Super answered most of your questions.

As for the polyamory bit, I don't think it's actually getting in the way, it's just that... well, given the circumstances, it's a bit weird.

[arguskos]

(Polygamy is being married to multiple partners at the same time. Polyamory is having multiple lovers.)
My opinions on this issue aren't super relevant, but, I wanted to say think you, for giving the clearest definition of this difference that I've EVER read. For someone like myself, who's easily confused with similar wording, this is useful.

[Superglucose]

So... don't talk with them? Put it in negative terms? It can't be okay even if all three know it is okay? It can be okay even if one thinks it isn't?
What? I'm disagreeing with your stance which is "get more involved."



You don't believe in polyamory, do you?
What?



(Note: I'm not saying that you are wrong, that everything is roses, but what have you got against communication? He thinks something is up, he needs to proceed with caution, if he does proceed, and a little more information will probably go a long way.)
Communication is wonderful and awesome. I'm saying that he should communicate a desire to have no part in the discussion.




:smallconfused:

How are you getting that there IS a history of polyAMORY getting in the way? Existing, yes, but getting in the way?




I've just come out of a particularly nasty break up, which you may remember being posted in the depression thread a few months back, and while I'm still not at 100% (or even 75%) I'm doing better.


He's personally given me the go-ahead, which I guess is only fair, seeing as how he *ahem* experienced my ex fiance before she was officially my ex.

Am I the only person who read this and thought those two statements might be even remotely co-related?

And then there's statements like these:



tl;dr: My awesomeness might break my friends up and I'm not sure how I should feel about that.


But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure that they only THINK they're ok with it, and I wouldn't want to be the thing that drives them apart.


Not to mention, what if afterwards her boyfriend just doesn't measure up?

The prevailing attitudes here are silly and ridiculous. On the one hand I see his friend being all, "I boinked your fiance and so now it's only fair if you boink my gf." That's weird as hell. Then his girlfriend is like "Well... I don't want to do this... but I'd be ok doing it with you I guess." Then our buddy here is all, "I think I'm going to break them up because I'm a god in the sack!"

There is alltogether too much ego flying around for anything good to come of it. And more communication won't necessarily make anything better, unless everyone is completely and 100% honest about what's going on, which, frankly, I find highly unlikely.

Especially considering that Marillion is not in a good place right now, this also stands a very good chance of wounding him.

So like Pyrian said, if you're ok with losing a friend (and possibly getting a girlfriend out of the deal) go for it. But if you want to avoid drama and/or any hurt feelings, politely decline the offer. Trust me when I say that this is not something that you want to be a part of.

Ok, here's a list of why I don't like the situation:

1) This is the "friend" that cheated on this dude's now ex-fiance.
2) Marillion has admitted that he is not completely over the breakup with this ex-fiance.
3) The girl doesn't seem into it and sounds like she's being pressured.
4) To be honest the guy doesn't sound into it either and I can't fathom his reasons for it.
5) Polyamory is the idea of "you can be with other people if you want" not "you have to be with other people." It is possible for a monoamorous or monogamous (through coloquial usage their meanings are the same) person to be with a polyamorous or polygamous person, whatever you want to call it. $guy is not looking for polyamory. I can't fathom what his goal is here, actually. That alone bothers me.
6) Marillion's got a huge ego going into it regarding his "talents"

[Umael]

I think you kinda got ninja'd, Umael. Super answered most of your questions.

Please... I've been ninja'd so often, I invested in clothing enhanced with heavy fortification.


As for the polyamory bit, I don't think it's actually getting in the way, it's just that... well, given the circumstances, it's a bit weird.

Which is why he posted - because he has conflicting feelings, and if he has conflicting feelings, he needs to get a handle on said feelings before he continues, if he continues.

The only other two options are to run for the hills without asking questions or charge blindly forward. Neither one is something I would do.

[Umael]

:smallsigh:
What? I'm disagreeing with your stance which is "get more involved."

No.

If you are going to attribute something to me, get it right.

My stance is NOT get more involved, my stance is about communication. Which apparently, you believe is fruitless.


Communication is wonderful and awesome. I'm saying that he should communicate a desire to have no part in the discussion.


And more communication won't necessarily make anything better, unless everyone is completely and 100% honest about what's going on, which, frankly, I find highly unlikely.

...:smallsigh:

Speaking of communication...

[Superglucose]

Discussing it more is inherently getting more involved.

[arguskos]

Discussing it more is inherently getting more involved.
Soooo, communication=good, but communication in this context=bad, since to communicate about it requires he be a part of it further, which you discourage? Is that about what you mean here?

<--- is trying to get the point correctly, so I understand more fully what's being said.

[Umael]

Discussing it more is inherently getting more involved.

*snort*

I'm done talking about this with you.

[Coidzor]

Well, Superglucose does bring up one good point. The burden of proving themselves not dangerous and insane lies with the couple approaching someone outside of the couple.

If attempts at communication do not better the transparency of the situation, then you know that you should avoid the situation at all costs if you value your life and property.
Out of all the students entering the college in question - school of veterinary medicine - only two others are male. Out of about 60-70 people. :smalleek:

Any particular advice? I have a feeling I'm going to stand out, and not necessarily in a good way. Horrific images passing through my mind: 1) either or both of the other guys are jerks, 2) I make some sort of embarrasing blunder that will give me a bad reputation (that would make my life a hell for 6 years) or 3), I won't make any new friends and get really really lonely. Or any combination of three. With possible sidedishes of other horror scenarios.

I feel quite ill-equipped for this situation. I can deal with guys, and make good friends over time, but I've never really had female friends for one reason or the other. Situation is also not aided one bit by the fact that I'm usually fairly uneasy around people I don't know, and it shows. I sweat, stutter occasionally and am generally slightly dim-witted and uninteresting.

Well, remember, when/if sleep with one of them, everyone is going to know, even if the female-male ratio weren't so skewed. Unless they just don't care in which case, huzzah. If you're into girls

You're going to get **** for being a guy in that situation at some point, though, to be honest, unless you've got someone with a psychosis itching to see how your liver performs as a hat, you'll probably be able to deal with the level of it you're going to receive. It's not like you're trying to become an engineer while being a woman in the 1950s or something like that.

And I doubt you're dim-witted if you think you have a ghost of a chance as a doctor of veterinary medicine. :smalltongue: And, hey, you just got an interesting thing about yourself. You're one of the minority of men going into a field that the newblood of which is just being dominated by women.

[Superglucose]

Definition 4: "connected by participation or assosiation" (http://www.answers.com/topic/involved) I believe he, through communication, would be connected by assosiation, ergo, involved.

[Coidzor]

Definition 4: "connected by participation or assosiation" (http://www.answers.com/topic/involved) I believe he, through communication, would be connected by assosiation, ergo, involved.

Wait, did I miss something while I was glossing over things? The couple under investigation for doing something off with minors or something? Because usually that's just a bad stereotype of polyamorous people. No idea where that one came from.

Anyhoo, it'll take a bit more than what I read to make him closely tied enough to them to risk jail time if they are up to anything illegal, unless I grossly misread things.

[Serpentine]

...what.

Ok, so they had a kid at 18, and their spawn did as well, and so they're a grandparent at 36. :smalleek:

That's messed up dude.My mother knows someone who was a grandfather at 30. He had a kid when he was 15, and his kid had a kid at 15. More specifically, 18's not such a bad age to have a child. Certainly not bad enough to warrant a "messed up".
1) either or both of the other guys are jerksSo what? You don't have to be friends with them, and their jerkitude is no reflection on you.
2) I make some sort of embarrasing blunder that will give me a bad reputation (that would make my life a hell for 6 years) or 3)Welcome to life.
I won't make any new friends and get really really lonely.To this and the previous: Do unto others as you would have done unto you, be a friend to others to make friends, invite people round for tea (has fewer connotations than coffee, I reckons), talk, engage, make conversation, etc.

I can deal with guys, and make good friends over time, but I've never really had female friends for one reason or the other.Too bad. Learn. There's no reason to not make friends with the women there, and lots of reasons to.
Throwing in my hat to Marillion: If everyone's comfortable, go ahead. If someone's at all not comfortable - including yourself - don't. Best way to determine comfort is to discuss it. The greatest risk to you is loss of friendship. That doesn't appear to be of concern, so whatever.

Incidentally: Glucose, "he bonked my ex" IS NOT EQUAL TO "polyamory".

[Superglucose]

Wait, did I miss something while I was glossing over things? The couple under investigation for doing something off with minors or something? Because usually that's just a bad stereotype of polyamorous people. No idea where that one came from.

Anyhoo, it'll take a bit more than what I read to make him closely tied enough to them to risk jail time if they are up to anything illegal, unless I grossly misread things.
... what? No. Just as I'm involved in a D&D game despite it being not illegal.

@Serpentine, "my ex was boinking my best friend while we were together" however does equal polyamory.

[Serpentine]

No, it doesn't. Well, it might, but I expect it's more along the lines of "my ex cheated on me with this guy", which is explicitely not polyamory. Or, alternatively, "we had an open relationship and so she got it on with this guy", which is still not polyamory.

[Marillion]

Super, I think I might be getting the vibe that you think it's a bad idea. But I'm not sure, you're being a little vague, would you mind clarifying? :smalltongue:


Am I the only person who read this and thought those two statements might be even remotely co-related?
This guy was the symptom, not the cause. No, it was the married man she cheated on me with first that sounded the death knell. And I was willing to forgive her and work things out, and it seemed like she was too...and then she went and slept with this guy. And that guy. And the other guy. So yeah. May she be happy with the life she has chosen for herself.


No, it doesn't. Well, it might, but I expect it's more along the lines of "my ex cheated on me with this guy", which is explicitely not polyamory.
Yep.



Short answer - Don't. Long answer - Don't, in a million years, unless you really don't care if you're friends or not with the couple


1) This is the "friend" that cheated on this dude's now ex-fiance.


@Serpentine, "my ex was boinking my best friend while we were together" however does equal polyamory.
You'll notice that I described her as an acquaintance and him as 'that guy'. They aren't close friends of mine. In fact, I only started talking to them regularly when my ex slept with the guy. I think that's part of why they are ok with it being me; because they won't be losing a close friend if things go poorly.


The prevailing attitudes here are silly and ridiculous. On the one hand I see his friend being all, "I boinked your fiance and so now it's only fair if you boink my gf." That's weird as hell.


4) To be honest the guy doesn't sound into it either and I can't fathom his reasons for it.

He'd been telling her to go sleep with someone else long before he met my ex. He wants her to sow her wild oats, as it were. I don't pretend to understand his thought processes, as I am the kind of person who would have been ok having only slept with my ex for the rest of my life, but apparently, experience is important to most people. The fact that it would be the guy whose fiance he slept with is coincidence.


Then his girlfriend is like "Well... I don't want to do this... but I'd be ok doing it with you I guess."


3) The girl doesn't seem into it and sounds like she's being pressured.
If I were sure that were the case, I wouldn't have passed Post or collected 200 dollars, I'd have gone straight to No. However, it is her initial hesitance that is giving me pause. It's not that she doesn't want to, it's that she had mixed feelings, which, again, she resolved. I told her that she shouldn't do this because HE wants her to or because I want her to, but because SHE wants to. The very next day, she says she talked to her boyfriend and he was ok with it. I asked her if SHE was ok...and she responded with several graphic messages. So I guess she's ok with it.


6) Marillion's got a huge ego going into it regarding his "talents"

I would just like to point out that I don't have THAT big an ego. I'm just going with what I'm told. The tl;dr was just a bit of humor. I mean, I'm sure I'm adequate. I've just been told that I'm pretty good, and he's...not. And again, she did NOT care about sparing my feelings.

[Pyrian]

The vast majority of proponents of polyamory take great pains to separate their lifestyle from the basic practice of cheating. I.e., normally discussions of polyamory assume all partners are aware and consenting. Umael's definition, in contrast, included cheating. (You can't really blame that on 'glucose.) And whether the subject under discussion's ex-fiance's dalliance was with his consent or not was not even specified nor entirely clear in its original context.

EDIT: Now we know it was cheating.

Okay, one more question, did this guy know your ex was engaged at the time, or was he an essentially innocent party?

[Coidzor]

My mother knows someone who was a grandfather at 30. He had a kid when he was 15, and his kid had a kid at 15.

Ahh, family traditions! :smallsigh:


You'll notice that I described her as an acquaintance and him as 'that guy'. They aren't close friends of mine. In fact, I only started talking to them regularly when my ex slept with the guy. I think that's part of why they are ok with it being me; because they won't be losing a close friend if things go poorly.

Yeah, I can't give you anything that'll be of use to you. Sorry I can't help you at all, and I wish you luck with this situation.

[Marillion]

EDIT: Now we know it was cheating.

Okay, one more question, did this guy know your ex was engaged at the time, or was he an essentially innocent party?

He knew that she was *technically* with me, but she wanted out, and at the time, I was just a nameless, faceless guy who happened to live in the same apartment as the girl he wanted to sleep with. So yeah, jerk move on his part, but I'm not terribly mad at him over it.

[Pyrian]

Okay, you're not risking a whole lot, and you're not raining on any parades that couldn't use some moisture anyway. Yeah, there's a reasonable chance things get messy, but hey, it's not like that didn't happen with your last relationship anyway. I think that if you want to, go ahead.

[Umael]

The vast majority of proponents of polyamory take great pains to separate their lifestyle from the basic practice of cheating. I.e., normally discussions of polyamory assume all partners are aware and consenting. Umael's definition, in contrast, included cheating.

:smallconfused:

Wait, what?

It would think the "if all three are okay, it is okay" it would imply that cheating is NOT part of polyamory and is NOT okay.

(Not challenging what you said, Pyrian, just honestly trying to figure out where I gave that impression.)

[Marillion]

(Polygamy is being married to multiple partners at the same time. Polyamory is having multiple lovers.)

I believe that is where they're getting the idea. Given that you didn't explicitly say "having multiple lovers who are all aware of and consent to each other", cheating could be considered polyamory (which it *technically* could be anyway but whatever)

[Coidzor]

Yeah, I think the thing is, a lot of people have a negative stereotype from those polyamorous groups that don't take pains to insure that they're not being used as a way to cheat on someone else, and frankly, don't care due to an actively hostile mentality towards those who follow a more traditional lifestyle. An expected part of being a more or less hostilely treated group by those more in line with monogamy, sure, but it's still a source of friction as it's memorable enough when it actually happens to perpetuate and spread the stereotype.

[Pyrian]

...just honestly trying to figure out where I gave that impression.

This was the "definition" you gave - I would have overlooked it's lack of specificity a bit more, except that others in the thread seized upon it and made an issue of what I suspect was a simple misunderstanding:
(Polygamy is being married to multiple partners at the same time. Polyamory is having multiple lovers.)

Further, the situation we now know was cheating and which 'Glucose and I suspected as such was described by you as follows:
How are you getting that there IS a history of polyAMORY getting in the way? Existing, yes, but getting in the way?Here, it can easily be taken that you are describing cheating as "polyamory". (The alternative is that you assumed that said history was consensual, which would be incorrect, albeit not entirely clear.)

Anyway, with Serpie taking shots at 'glucose for essentially (over-)running with your (mis-)take on the situation, I felt that clarifying semantics would be appropriate! :smallcool:

[Umael]

...

Yeah.

Okay, slap me with a trout. That was sloppy defining.

[FoE]

I wasn't sure if this was a better question for the Relationship Woes thread or the LGBT thread, but I'll try here first.

So! I've got one of those, whatchamacallit, hypothetical questions. This is not about me, but it's about someone I know. A friend of a friend of a friend. "That's what they all say," right? But I assure you, that's not the case. I ain't dating anyone at the moment.

So, Guy meets Girl. Girl seems a bit apprehensive about dating him at first, but after hanging out with each other, they reach that point where one could safely say they're in a relationship. They get along very well together, she seems to be very happy around him (and he feels very happy around her) and the Girl seems to enjoy the, ahem, physical portion of the relationship, in as much as the Guy can tell. The Guy himself has no complaints in that regard.

Eventually, it reaches that point where the Guy tells the Girl "I love you," and she tell him — without hesitating — that she loves him right back.

So things seem all merry and well for the happy couple. EXCEPT, as they spend time together and learn more about each other's past, the Guy learns that he's the Girl's first boyfriend. Up until this point, the Girl has only had other girlfriends, and in fact, the last very serious relationship she was in was with a Woman. That relationship had lasted for years and might have lasted forever had the Woman not done something really, really terrible to the Girl that she could never make up for.

This is all terribly confounding to the Guy, and he questions the Girl about it, and she says she preferred women but was OK with men.

Now the Guy is in love with the Girl, but being the romantic, chivalrous fool that he is, he briefly contemplates breaking up with her. Why? Because he really wants her to be happy. He has no problems with her past or her sexuality, but he really loves her and wonders if she couldn't find someone who was a better fit for her — namely, another Girl. He's a nice Guy and all, but he ain't no prize catch, or at least that's what he tells himself; the Guy has some self-esteem issues. He contemplates this even though there aren't any other women currently in the picture for the girl.

I tell the Guy that he's a damn fool, that the Girl can make up her own mind about who she dates and that he'd be doing her a greater disservice by breaking up with her. He grudgingly accepts my advice, but still wonders if that's The Right Thing to Do, something he constantly obsesses over. He's kind of Lawful Stupid.

What do you think?

[Coidzor]

He's stupid, yeah. That's probably the worst reasoning I've ever run into.

And approaching relationships in entirely the wrong direction. I think it's like sideways and upside down at the same time.

While going not quite parallel.

[Marillion]

I tell the Guy that he's a damn fool, that the Girl can make up her own mind about who she dates and that he'd be doing her a greater disservice by breaking up with her. He grudgingly accepts my advice, but still wonders if that's The Right Thing to Do, something he constantly obsesses over. He's kind of Lawful Stupid.

What do you think?

A damn fool indeed. While he might (might) be doing the right thing if she was unhappy with the way things are going or there was a girl that she wanted to be with, that isn't the case and he's blowing her past out of proportion.

I've never understood people who would just give up someone they love like that. My personal feeling on the matter is that if you love someone, you should strive with everything you have to be the CAUSE of their happiness. Sure, if things aren't working out and your lover is unhappy and all your efforts are bootless, you should go your separate ways, but to just give up and throw away a relationship that hasn't really had a chance to bloom just on the off-chance that they'll be happier without you? That says a lot to me about his self image.

[Zeb The Troll]

I tell the Guy that he's a damn fool, that the Girl can make up her own mind about who she dates and that he'd be doing her a greater disservice by breaking up with her.FoE - This is exactly what I'd say to him. She's made a decision about who she wants to see. She'd likely find it insulting for him to make that decision for her. I would if I were in her shoes.

[Pheehelm]

I'm with everyone else. Deciding who she's most happy with is her call, not his. The "prefers women" thing is distracting him, I think; a person may prefer a particular hair/eye/skin color, height, body type, personality, whatever, but still be perfectly happy with someone who doesn't match that particular.

[FoE]

He has some self-image issues, yes. He's not had much luck with women in the past, so I think that plays into it. But he doesn't want to lose her, so it wasn't too hard to convince him.

[xPANCAKEx]

hes being a bellend - hes worried that she'll leave him so hes trying to pre-empt it by calling it off

tell him not to be so stupid - if he wants her to be happy, he'll stay with her as he is the PERSON (not the man, not the woman - the person! she is attracted to both after all) that she is in love with

[Quincunx]

Fishmongers' paradise, these last few pages. . .a trout for FoE's friend, a trout for Umael (by request), a trout for Marillion, a trout for Marillion's friend, and an electric trout for Marillion's female friend. :smallamused:

Adumbration, the last time I saw an imbalance that severe was in an algebra class, and the two guys did slip pretty quick into a 'got your back, bro' stance despite not knowing one another beforehand. Friendship? I don't know. On the other hand, I did see the ratio flipped when I started college (university) (whatever); in those first few weeks when relationships set as swiftly as epoxy glues, there was a rush to get acquainted with member-of-the-minority. Don't count on having much alone time until the social jockeying has been completed. :smalltongue:

[The Extinguisher]

Someone slap me really hard please. I want to know if this is all a nightmare.


I dated this girl for a while, now she's doing this long distance thing with the same person she was dating before we got together. We broke up, it was tough at first, but we managed to stay friends, which was nice, because she's a great girl. We hang out and drink together a lot, but she's always been weary of just the two of us hanging out by ourselves. I mostly thought it was because her boyfriend really, really doesn't like me.

Anyways, I'm planning a fairly standard evening of getting drunk and watching bad movies when she just straight up says (after being excited about it before hand) that she doesn't want to hang out with me when it's just the two of us anymore. After we talk a bit, she tells me that she can't do it, because she still wants to sleep with me, but can't because of her internet boyfriend.

We get into an argument over this, because I've basically put myself through hell trying to make the friendship work despite any history we had, because I value her friendship. I don't make good friends very easily, so I hold on to the ones I have. I'm trying to work at it despite any feelings, physical or emotional, I have for her still, and she doesn't want to be friends because she's still physically attracted to me, and really only wants to have sex with me because her boyfriend is in another country.

Maybe I'm being selfish over this? Probably. But I just don't think it's fair.

[xPANCAKEx]

The Extinguisher

Shes the one being selfish - not you... So we'll have no more of that talk from you young man!

Things are never "fair" when it comes to the world of romance. As much as i can understand not having many people to call friends and valuing the ones you do have (i know LOTS of people. LOTS... but theres not many of them i'd put on my christmas card list), you sometimes have to walk away. Shes not willing to make the same effort to maintain a friendship as you are. While i admire her honesty in the situation, even the compliment of "i still want in your pants roflzzz" doesnt diminish that fact. Take stock in two things: you've put yourself into an emotionally difficult situation, and while you may not have ended with the result you wanted (a decent friendship), you HAVE persevered even in hard times, and thats not an easy thing to do. Secondly, shes 'walking away' because SHE cant handle it, not because you've made things uncomfortable.

I know despite all this it feels like a kick in the teeth, but just hang out with other friends for a while and keep yourself busy. The balls in her court, and in all fairness, you've made more than enough effort on your part so you have zero reason for any self-recrimination

[MountainKing]

Someone slap me really hard please. I want to know if this is all a nightmare.


I dated this girl for a while, now she's doing this long distance thing with the same person she was dating before we got together. We broke up, it was tough at first, but we managed to stay friends, which was nice, because she's a great girl. We hang out and drink together a lot, but she's always been weary of just the two of us hanging out by ourselves. I mostly thought it was because her boyfriend really, really doesn't like me.

Anyways, I'm planning a fairly standard evening of getting drunk and watching bad movies when she just straight up says (after being excited about it before hand) that she doesn't want to hang out with me when it's just the two of us anymore. After we talk a bit, she tells me that she can't do it, because she still wants to sleep with me, but can't because of her internet boyfriend.

We get into an argument over this, because I've basically put myself through hell trying to make the friendship work despite any history we had, because I value her friendship. I don't make good friends very easily, so I hold on to the ones I have. I'm trying to work at it despite any feelings, physical or emotional, I have for her still, and she doesn't want to be friends because she's still physically attracted to me, and really only wants to have sex with me because her boyfriend is in another country.

Maybe I'm being selfish over this? Probably. But I just don't think it's fair.

...holy crap it's like looking in a frigging ASCII mirror! :smalleek:

Pancake already covered you, but I'll reinforce his point; it's not *your* fault that she can't handle her feelings. You do not deserve a smacking, though for the sake of waking from a potential nightmare, *ker-POW!*, now brush your shoulders off man. I understand what it's like to not make good friends easily, and the drive to hold on to the ones you have. If she can't sort herself out though, you don't have much of a choice.

And believe you me, it's hard. Hard as balls. :smallfrown:

[Pyrian]

:smallconfused: And group activities are impossible because...? I don't think her position is particularly unreasonable. Temptation is a nuisance and just because you're willing to suck it up and deal doesn't mean anybody else will want to.

[MountainKing]

...curse you and your ineffably logical, objective perspective on everything, Pyrian! :smallfurious: :smalltongue:

I'm still on Extin's side though; it could be that all of her friends are annoying, or maybe she doesn't have any other friends. It's possible, though kinda unlikely... It's not often I encounter someone who legitimately has *nobody* to hang out with.

[skywalker]

Okay, you're not risking a whole lot, and you're not raining on any parades that couldn't use some moisture anyway. Yeah, there's a reasonable chance things get messy, but hey, it's not like that didn't happen with your last relationship anyway. I think that if you want to, go ahead.

I like the sound of this, but!

Is a (potentially?) emotionally entangling situation really what you need right now? You said yourself, you're not even 75%. I don't know what your baseline is, but that don't sound too great.

I'd recommend taking a little more time before you do any of this stuff, not because of the stuff inherently, but because sometimes when you break up (especially with a fiance), time is a good, good thing. So long as you're not being a shut-in about it. Which you aren't, but staying away from romance (or... sex) for a little while could have positive benefits. It's not like you met some really great girl who you'd like to pursue a thing with and who you don't have the luxury of time with. As I recall, some guy wants his GF to have sex with another dude. He picked you. What you're getting out of the deal is free, no-strings, short-term sex. Just doesn't seem worth it to me.


I've never understood people who would just give up someone they love like that. My personal feeling on the matter is that if you love someone, you should strive with everything you have to be the CAUSE of their happiness. Sure, if things aren't working out and your lover is unhappy and all your efforts are bootless, you should go your separate ways, but to just give up and throw away a relationship that hasn't really had a chance to bloom just on the off-chance that they'll be happier without you? That says a lot to me about his self image.

He (stupidly, immaturely) thinks he's being the bigger man, and also probably thinks that he's smarter than her, and she needs (needed) him to make this decision for her. Now, if I were a more aggressive feminist, I might tangent-ize about how this is a typical male viewpoint, being smarter than women, but it's quite possible that he thinks he's smarter than everyone, or only believes himself to be smarter than her on this issue. Either way, he's being a colossal dillhole in this situation.


We get into an argument over this, because I've basically put myself through hell trying to make the friendship work despite any history we had, because I value her friendship. I don't make good friends very easily, so I hold on to the ones I have. I'm trying to work at it despite any feelings, physical or emotional, I have for her still, and she doesn't want to be friends because she's still physically attracted to me, and really only wants to have sex with me because her boyfriend is in another country.

Maybe I'm being selfish over this? Probably. But I just don't think it's fair.

Selfishness is not always a flaw, especially not the horrific one we make it out to be in popular culture.

Also, it is not entirely out of the question that she wants to sleep with you for reasons other than (or in addition to) physical attraction.

I personally think until you can be around her, even think of her without any pangs of "it would be great to have what we had," it might be best to keep contact down low, around minimal.

Just trying to put a more moderate (and thus more likely) face on things.

[Pyrian]

Semantic gripe regarding "selfishness":

Selfishness means without regard for others. It is usually a moral failing, when defined as such (except, of course, when no others are involved anyway, or when such regard would not change anything).

Selfishness does not simply mean doing things for yourself (despite the root term). Doing things for yourself is normal, necessary, and even dare I say often quite moral. It can be moral to take care of yourself first and foremost because that allows you to take care of others and relieves others of the burden of taking care of you. E.g., we're instructed to put our own oxygen masks on first because otherwise we might not manage to put them on our children before passing out, and not because we're fundamentally more important than them.

Note that even motivations of avoiding punishment are still taking others into account (albeit in a self-centered fashion) and therefore can escape being truly selfish. ...Suspicious, though. :smalltongue:

Now, let's take Extinguisher's ex as an example. Her motivation is to avoid temptation to cheat. She doesn't want to cheat because that would be cruel to her boyfriend. (And, frankly, I suspect her boyfriend might be a bit uncomfortable with her hanging out alone with her still-attractive ex, anyway.) This cannot possibly be classified as "selfish" as the fundamental motivation is for somebody else!

[Coidzor]

Rather silly of her not to make a move to start including others though, if it was wearing on her.

[MountainKing]

Rather silly of her not to make a move to start including others though, if it was wearing on her.

I think this is also another acceptable, if not even excellent, point. If it was such a big deal, why didn't she make any suggestions to include others (unless my other point, that maybe she just doesn't have any friends, was true) in order to rectify the situation?

[Marillion]

Is a (potentially?) emotionally entangling situation really what you need right now? You said yourself, you're not even 75%. I don't know what your baseline is, but that don't sound too great.

My baseline is "Cantankerous, grouchy, and sarcastic...But in a lovable way" and it goes down from there. Waaaaaaaay down.




He (stupidly, immaturely) thinks he's being the bigger man, and also probably thinks that he's smarter than her, and she needs (needed) him to make this decision for her. Now, if I were a more aggressive feminist, I might tangent-ize about how this is a typical male viewpoint, being smarter than women, but it's quite possible that he thinks he's smarter than everyone, or only believes himself to be smarter than her on this issue. Either way, he's being a colossal dillhole in this situation.

If I hadn't seen so many women make the exact same judgment call for their boyfriends, I might agree. I would say it's less an "I'm smarter than my lover and he/she can't make this decision" thing than an "I'm not that great a person and my lover would be better off without me" thing.

Extinguisher: It really does suck. But...she's kind of right. If she still has feelings for you but doesn't want to act on them, and you still have feelings for her, you two being alone together is not a good idea. That's why my ex and I only hang out in mixed company or in public places. And there's no reason why you and she can't hang out in mixed company or public places.

[Syka]

Um...why is she getting flack for recognizing something that could potentially ruin her romantic relationship, and take appropriate measures?

I mean, when I had a thing for a friend of mine whilst in an LDR, I knew better than to hang out with him alone or in a situation where something could happen. I never told him such, and we continued hanging out in public and group situations on a regular basis, but I didn't trust myself. Being in a non-LDR I know I could trust myself now if I was in such a position.


So...I'm just curious why people are digging on the girl? I applaud her for recognizing this rather than setting herself up for a potentially disasterous situation. Her decision is NOT a reflection upon Extinguisher, nor her boyfriend, nor really herself. If anything I'd say it's positive that she is that self-aware.

I'll note, I didn't see where she said no to being friends period, or hanging out period. Just hanging out in a situation that could lead to something less than savory.



On the potential love triangle: I'd advise against it for 3 main reasons.

1. You are not in a place after your break up to get entangled in such a mess, it seems. And the likelihood of this turning in to a mess are large.

2. There is a past here (namely, Guy cheating with Ex-Fiance). This increases chance of Mess significantly.

3. Girl didn't really seem to be in to it and just doing it to appease Guy. Once again, increases chance and amount of Mess.


If there was no past, and Girl wanted to do it of her own violition, I wouldn't be opposed even with your recent break up. But all three together? Make me very, very wary.

Plus, there is a chance that Guy could not be as OK with it as he thinks, and then spread a lie that you and Girl cheated or some such.

[Coidzor]

Um...why is she getting flack for recognizing something that could potentially ruin her romantic relationship, and take appropriate measures?

Because she just said, "NOPE, NOT GONNA HANG OUT WITH YOU ANYMORE, BYE." instead of "Y'know what, I don't really want to just hang around alone getting drunk anymore, we should do something more sociable when we hang out."

Sure, it's appropriate to no longer want to hang out one on one getting drunk. Incredibly rude to not even give the semblance of trying and not telling him she doesn't give a rat's fig for him anymore.

There, I just expounded upon the last time I said it. Still moonspeak?

[Syka]

I got the impression that she canceled the movie night or whatever, not put an embargo on ever hanging out again EVAR. I could be wrong, though.



And...yeah, I just checked. Extinguisher said she said, and I quote:



when she just straight up says (after being excited about it before hand) that she doesn't want to hang out with me when it's just the two of us anymore.

Emphasis mine.

[MountainKing]

I think part of the problem was that she was perfectly okay with it earlier in the day, and then out of nowhere, she suddenly had issues with it.

[Syka]

I think part of the problem was that she was perfectly okay with it earlier in the day, and then out of nowhere, she suddenly had issues with it.

Because people can't be excited about something and then realize "Oh..wait...that probably isn't such a good idea for X, Y, or Z reason."? As someone whose been in a similar (but different) position, she probably WAS really excited. Once the excitement died down, she realized the issues that can come from A. being alone with him while B. drunk.

Better judgement and all that.

[MountainKing]

Nyeeeeeh, okay, I guess. That doesn't change what I said earlier, that if going in a group wasn't a big deal, she could've just invited somebody to come with, instead of just canceling.

[Syka]

Since it's at Ex's house (presumably), it would be rude to invite someone over. Honestly, if for some reason I had to cancel due to something not involving someone else, I'd not invite that someone else and would feel a bit awkward asking the person whose house it would be at if Someone Else could come. Since, well, it's their place.

Now, that is a good idea, though- perhaps Ex could talk to her about rescheduling the drunken-movie night later this week with both of them including friends who won't let them do something stupid.

[Coidzor]

See, that's the thing, she delivers this ultimatum and breaks off contact, rather than attempt to work around the impasse or be diplomatic about it.

Rude.

[Marillion]

Wisdom

+1

As for my love triangle thing, you are right about the chances of it becoming a mess being uncomfortably high. But if it does, again, I wouldn't be losing close friends, and the mess would be easily cut out of my life as I am not required by social or financial obligations to interact with them at all.


See, that's the thing, she delivers this ultimatum and breaks off contact, rather than attempt to work around the impasse or be diplomatic about it.

Rude.

We don't know that for certain. From what it sounds like, the fight may have occurred when Extinguisher took it too personally before she ever got a chance to work around this problem.

[Syka]

But I saw nowhere in Ex's post that an ultimatum was delivered beyond, "I'm not comfortable hanging out with you ALONE." That is NOT the same as "I'm not hanging out with you PERIOD, because I'm not comfortable around you."

Where is an ultimatum and where, in God's name, did she break contact? I did not get that impression, beyond maybe Ex jumping from "I don't want to hang out with you one-on-on" to thinking that means "She no longer wants to be my friend despite me working SO hard on it". Two VERY different things.


Mar (mind if I shorten it?), is there any possible other social fall out that can occur via mutual friends? If not, it's up to you. I'd still lean towards advising "no" for your own mental wellbeing, unless you don't think it would cause an issue.

The only remaining thing...would you see this as "revenge" of sorts?

[Coidzor]

We don't know that for certain. From what it sounds like, the fight may have occurred when Extinguisher took it too personally before she ever got a chance to work around this problem.

Hmm, maybe I am jumping to conclusions then. From what I read and interpreted of it, that's how things had gone down, hence why I found her behavior a bit odd that she didn't suggest something more social off the bat.