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Segial
2010-06-11, 04:01 AM
A player in my campaign wants to craft a periapt of wisdom+5. Does anyone know where I can find the rules and/or discussion threats about crafting items with uneven attribute boni? Are there any reasons I should not allow it?

Grumman
2010-06-11, 04:09 AM
They don't exist by default, but there's no reason why you can't create them. I think it's a good idea to make them available, since it means you don't have to worry so much about getting your stats perfect.

Since the attribute bonus costs are of the form k*x^2, it's easy to work out how much they should cost:

+1 is 1,000 gp.
+3 is 9,000 gp.
+5 is 25,000 gp.

Thurbane
2010-06-11, 04:10 AM
^ What Grumman said.

They don't exist by default, but there's no real balance reason they couldn't...it's a very basic formula to calculate cost.

Eloel
2010-06-11, 04:10 AM
A player in my campaign wants to craft a periapt of wisdom+5. Does anyone know where I can find the rules and/or discussion threats about crafting items with uneven attribute boni? Are there any reasons I should not allow it?

He's likely doing it because he has an odd score. Odd scores are a waste, so you should let him do that.

+5 Wisdom should cost 25k by the formula.

AslanCross
2010-06-11, 07:41 AM
Nitpick: It's bonuses, not boni.

QuantumSteve
2010-06-11, 08:37 AM
These are common homebrew items. The reason they don't already have these is they give disproportional boosts to your ability bonuses.

i.e. if you have a 18 dex(+4 bonus) and buy gloves +6 you end up with a 24 dex(+7 bonus). So you get +3 to your dexterity bonus for 36000gp. Because the dex bonus is what we want, really. We could give a crap about our actual dex score

If you have, say, a 13 dex(+1 bonus) and buy custom gloves +5 you end up with a 18 dex(+4 bonus) Same +3 to your dexterity bonus, but only 25000gp.

On the other hand, such items do reward players that use level bonuses and build points to give themselves an otherwise less useful odd ability score. So it has its pros and cons.

Starbuck_II
2010-06-11, 09:07 AM
Feats care about odd stats though.
Power Attack is 13 Str (not 12)
Dodge is 13 (not 12)

gbprime
2010-06-11, 09:44 AM
Hey, if your players want to spend XP to make the stuff, let them. In a few levels, the PC will have another +1 to that stat anyway, and will go back to that custom item and re-enchant it, paying the difference to boost it from a +5 to a +6. No biggie.

Stat boost items rarely break games. If the PC's spend all their cash on them, fine. It beats them shopping for Candles of Invocation. :smallamused:

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-11, 10:18 AM
Don't you mean 'bony'? Is he a necromancer? Or perhaps undead?

Maybe he's just really really skinny?

balistafreak
2010-06-11, 10:43 AM
Don't you mean 'bony'? Is he a necromancer? Or perhaps undead?

Maybe he's just really really skinny?

Hey, undead do have uneven attributes. No Constitution score. :smallwink:

Segial
2010-06-11, 12:11 PM
Nitpick: It's bonuses, not boni.

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boni

Tyger
2010-06-11, 12:16 PM
Not according to dictionary.com or my paper Websters dictionary. Bonuses is the plural of bonus. Only Wikipedia seems to think otherwise. Maybe a different language??

On the original point, yeah, as has been said ten times, there's nothing to prevent it, and lots to say in its favour. Run with it.

Cogidubnus
2010-06-11, 12:38 PM
No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boni

Wikipedia is an awful reference tool. It's a nice place to start, and good for seeing what people think, but not much good otherwise. My brother ones put two letter "g"s in all references to the instrument ganban. His entire class then used wikipedia for their music project and used the wrong word. Hilarity ensued.

Grank
2010-06-11, 02:32 PM
bo·nus
–noun, plural -nus·es.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Bonus

Fax Celestis
2010-06-11, 02:43 PM
Maybe a different language??

Yes. Latin. However, the correct singular is "bonum", and the plural therefore is "bona" (as in bona fide), following a similar pattern to medium/media, datum/data, and maximum/maxima. "Bonus" is, quite literally, a "good man".

gbprime
2010-06-11, 03:37 PM
Yes. Latin. However, the correct singular is "bonum", and the plural therefore is "bona" (as in bona fide), following a similar pattern to medium/media, datum/data, and maximum/maxima. "Bonus" is, quite literally, a "good man".

Latin is fun like that, as is the evolution of language in general. My favorite is the root of sincere... sine cera... meaning "without wax".

Lateral
2010-06-11, 03:40 PM
Latin is fun like that, as is the evolution of language in general. My favorite is the root of sincere... sine cera... meaning "without wax".

When things like that happen, it probably means that somewhere in the history of English and Latin, 'without wax' was an expression for 'sincere'. Which makes sense, if you think about it...

Well, either that, or the word came from another language/Latin word/etc.

gbprime
2010-06-11, 03:45 PM
The story I got back in school when I studied latin was that it came out of stone merchants of the time. Stone was all hand carved by masters and apprentices, and the best (most expensive) stone was the stuff that was free of cracks and errors. Some merchants would disguise the flaws in the stone by filling the cracks with wax, making it SEEM like it was unblemished.

So the stone merchants with the best reputations were known as being the ones "without wax". Sine cera. Which has become "sincere" in modern English.

Eldariel
2010-06-11, 03:48 PM
When things like that happen, it probably means that somewhere in the history of English and Latin, 'without wax' was an expression for 'sincere'. Which makes sense, if you think about it...

Well, either that, or the word came from another language/Latin word/etc.

It's a Latin-based word. The word can be found in all the Romance languages (French, Spanish, Italian) in an almost identical guise. That said, there's little support for the "sine cera" etymology; far as I understand it's a folk tale as much as anything, if an appropriately amusing one (about Roman sculptors covering the flaws in the sculptures with vax).

Rothen
2010-06-11, 03:58 PM
If you have, say, a 13 dex(+1 bonus) and buy custom gloves +5 you end up with a 18 dex(+4 bonus) Same +3 to your dexterity bonus, but only 25000gp.

That sounds like an odd reasoning to me. After all, to -get- that 13 dex, you invested points (either from point buy or advancement*) in that skill. So you lose points in other attributes.


*: I'm ignoring rolled scores, since we're talking about balance.

Kalirren
2010-06-11, 04:02 PM
Yes. Latin. However, the correct singular is "bonum", and the plural therefore is "bona" (as in bona fide), following a similar pattern to medium/media, datum/data, and maximum/maxima.

What? That's not right. "Bona fide" translates directly "in good faith"; "bona" = 1st/2nd declension feminine singular adjective in the ablative, agreeing with "fide" = 3rd declension singular noun in the ablative. No plural is involved.

I don't know if there's a 2nd-declension noun "bonum, -um" which carries the same meaning as "bonus" or "windfall" would in English but in any case that's not where the "bona" in "bona fide" comes from.

Fax Celestis
2010-06-11, 04:08 PM
What? That's not right. "Bona fide" translates directly "in good faith"; "bona" = 1st/2nd declension feminine singular adjective in the ablative, agreeing with "fide" = 3rd declension singular noun in the ablative. No plural is involved.

I don't know if there's a 2nd-declension noun "bonum, -um" which carries the same meaning as "bonus" or "windfall" would in English but in any case that's not where the "bona" in "bona fide" comes from.

My Latin teacher disagrees with you, but this was some time ago. Sic semper Celestis!

okpokalypse
2010-06-11, 04:32 PM
Just follow the rules for Magic Item creation in the DMG.

I would get concerned if your players were trying to make Ability Bonus items with bonus-types other than Enhancement.

I've seen PCs with +6 Enhancement, +6 Luck, +6 Insight and +6 Divine Bonuses on the same stat, all stacking. Granted, the latter three were (I believe) 72,000 gpv each and thus took a crap-load of days & xp to make - but that stacking gets real dangerous when DCs are involved....

J.Gellert
2010-06-11, 04:42 PM
Leaving the discussions on bonuses aside, I'd definitely allow such items in a game where players roll for attributes, but never in a point-buy based game.

AslanCross
2010-06-11, 06:44 PM
No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boni



Boni is also used (albeit improperly) as the plural of Bonus

:smallconfused:

AmberVael
2010-06-11, 07:33 PM
:smallconfused:

Yeah, I was going to post on that too (actually did, but deleted quickly after), but if you check the history of that page, you'll see that the relevant section was actually edited in today. As in, quite recently- probably in relation to this discussion, even. At the very least, after it was cited.