Please Examine And Criticize This Homebrew Prestige Class.

[Il_Vec]

I've played my share of casters. I know what they can do. So, one friend of mine is starting an anything-goes Eberron campaign. I wanted to play meelee, but aside from the horizon tripper, everything seemed... Well, weak. More like, out of options. I mean, they are down in the Tier scale for a reason.
So, after scouring some books trying to find a PrC... I decided to make one myself. Keep in mind it was designed for an Eberron campaign to go along DMM clerics, ToB classes and IotSV.

Destined Warrior

Concept
A veteran from the great war against Khyber, the Destined Warrior vows to find and purge all of Evil's servants.

Requirements:
BAB: + 5
Skills: Tumble 4 ranks, Knowledge (Arcane) 8 ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks
Feats: Mage slayer, Endurance, Blind-Fight, Power attack, Cleave
Cannot be Dragonmarked.
HD: d10

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier Per Level): Balance, Climb, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (The Planes), Listen, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble

Weapons and Armor Proeficiency: All Destined Warriors are proeficient with all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor, and all shields (except tower shield).

Die Hard - As Feat

Unnatural Sense - Detect Evil always on. Can also detect Dragonmarks and know what kind of mark he sees. Also detects non-evil servants of Khyber.

Supreme Cleave - May take a 5ft-step before or after making an extra attack granted by Cleave or Improved Cleave.

Fearless(Ex) - Immune to Fear

Thicket of Blades - As Stance

Dispelling Burst(SL) - Can Dispell Magic, only burst version, at will, using his Destined Warrior Level as Caster level. Disconsider all caster level penalties (Such as Mage Slayer) for this.

Undying Destiny(Ex) - Cannot be killed even after -10 hp or Death Effects, for 3 + Con modifier rounds after reaching -10. Can be healed if HP damage. Cannot be healed if Death Effect(Dies after).

Improved Power Attack - +3 for -2 one handed, + 3 for -1 Two handed.

Shadow Stride(Su) - As Maneuver, At Will, usable once per round

True Death(Su) - Servants of Khyber, Evil Outsiders, Undead and Evil Aberrations are always utterly destroyed when they reach 0 HP while fighting a Destined Warrior.

Ravaging Dispell(SL) - Can use Improved Dispell, as the spell, every 1d6 rounds. For each effect dispelled, can deal 1d6 + Con modifier damage per effect's level on the user. Can choose whether will cause damage for each effect.

Blindsight(Ex) - 30 ft

Shadow Blink(Su) - As Maneuver, At Will, usable once per round.

Destined of Eberron(Ex) - + 2 on all saves, + 2 AC, permanent Death Ward, Immune to fatigue & Ehxaustion, nonlethal damage, disease, poison, ability drain & damage.

Supreme Power Attack - +3 for -1 one handed, + 4 for -1 2 handed.

Disjunctive Purge(SL) - Can use Mordenkainen's Disjunction, 1 + Con times per day.

Vessel of war(Su) - As a swift action, can draw upon the essence of Eberron to fight. + 1/2 Character Level on STR, CON & DEX, Haste, Enlarge Person, Flight, gain Fast Healing 5, DR 10/-, SR = Character level + Con modifier, Immunity to enchantments & Illusions. Can end this effect as an immediate action. Can use this for a number of rounds equal to his character level + 3.

Destined Warrior
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Unnatural Sense, Die Hard

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Supreme Cleave, Fearless

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Thicket of Blades, Dispelling Burst

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Undying Destiny, Improved Power Attack

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Shadow Stride, True Death

6th|
+6|
+5|
+2|
+5|Ravaging Dispell, Blindsight

7th|
+7|
+5|
+2|
+5|Shadow Blink, Masterful Warrior

8th|
+8|
+6|
+2|
+6|Destined of Eberron, Supreme Power Attack

9th|
+9|
+6|
+3|
+6|Disjunctive Purge

10th|
+10|
+7|
+3|
+7|Vessel of War[/table]

[Mongoose87]

This might just be me, but allowing that capstone at-will seems totally OP.

[Il_Vec]

I made that capstone looking at what spells a cleric could DMM persist at level 15, but looking back, yeah, it seems OP. I'll wait some more input from other playgrounders and probably will change it to a pool of rounds per day, based on character level.

[jiriku]

It really feels like a grab-bag of powerful abilities, rather than a class built around a focus or a theme. Improved power attack? At-will dispel magic? At-will teleportation? There's really no synergy, and abilities seem disconnected from one another.

Power-wise, sure, you're all right when compared to your desired power level, but if I were a DM presenting this class as a player option, I'd have a lot of trouble explaining what Destined Warriors are, and why they can do what they do.

[Il_Vec]

It is a grab-bag of offense, defense, control and mobility. His job, his everyday life, is fighting the servants of Khyber, who include, but are not limited to, Demons, undead, aberrations and evil mages and clerics. That takes a lot of different abilities, I guess. No?

[jiriku]

His abilities are unquestionably well-suited to his job description, I just don't see how the class acquires its abilities. It feels like five classes at once.

These are the themes I see in your class:

Supernatural ability to detect evil and immunity to fear. Feels like a paladin, but paladins are courage, blessed by their gods, and wholly devoted to their duty.
He also gets Improved power attack, Diehard and temporary immunity to death from damage like a frenzied berserker. They're traditionally half-mad foaming ragers who with a barely-leashed urge for violence and murder
Shadow stride, shadow blink, and blindsight. These are shadow dancer-type abilities that imply mysticism, introspection, and an intuitive understanding of the nature of creation.
Dispelling burst, ravaging dispel, and disjunctive purge: the tools of a mage hunter, someone who dedicates himself to the pursuit of spellcasters and learns enough of their own tricks to be able to defeat them.
True death, destined of Eberron, and Destined of War: these powers imply a character chosen by the gods, or by fate. He's an epic hero, destined for things more important even than the victories and glories of the typical high-level adventurer. Like an Heir of Siberys, he's a great man, one who will be remembered for generations.


So we have a noble warrior devoted to the fight against evil, frightening spellcasting beasts who attempts to understand the world through meditation and mysticism but fights by lashing out with incredible violence and using superhuman endurance and willpower to fight through the devastating harm that he expects to receive in turn. Truly, he is an epic hero meant by fate to have a great destiny. Just like ll of the other war veterans who took this class.

Again, I'm not criticizing the power or utility of the class. It's a solid chassis with nice features. But to me it feels like you just cherry-picked a bunch of good features from several other classes. There's no central organizing theme that unites all of thisand explains why one person has all these powers.

Think of the classes I mentioned above. Paladin. Frenzied berserker. Shadow Dancer. Mage Slayer. Heir of Siberys. Each one has a single uniting theme that unites all the elements of the class.

[Milskidasith]

Concept
A veteran from the great war against Khyber, the Destined Warrior vows to find and purge all of Evil's servants.

I don't normally comment on fluff, but this doesn't explain anything about them.


Requirements:
BAB: + 5
Skills: Tumble 4 ranks, Knowledge (Arcane) 8 ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks
Feats: Mage slayer, Endurance, Blind-Fight, Power attack, Cleave
Cannot be Dragonmarked.

This is a grab bag of completely random feats, and the skill requirements are hard for many martial classes. I can't recall if initiators get those knowledge skills, but most core classes do not.


HD: d10

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier Per Level): Balance, Climb, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (The Planes), Listen, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble

Weapons and Armor Proeficiency: All Destined Warriors are proeficient with all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor, and all shields (except tower shield).

Normally PrCs don't grant proficiencies if they're designed to be entered by classes that already have them. It's got a decent chassis overall.


Die Hard - As Feat

Not powerful, but completely random.


Unnatural Sense - Detect Evil always on. Can also detect Dragonmarks and know what kind of mark he sees. Also detects non-evil servants of Khyber.

This PrC lets you join as evil, so why is it an anti evil PrC?


Supreme Cleave - May take 5ft-steps between cleaves

You only have regular cleave, so why would you need a step between multiple cleaves?


Fearless(Ex) - Immune to Fear

Again, this is simple, but why is it here? PrCs are normally designed around a theme, not a grab bag of abilities.


Thicket of Blades - As Stance

Again, decent, but random.


Dispelling Burst(SL) - Can Dispell Magic, only burst version, at will,at + PRC Lvl. Disconsider all caster level penalties (Such as Mage Slayer) for this.

OK, at PrC level means that it is completely worthless... you'll never dispel anything.


Undying Destiny(Ex) - Cannot be killed even after -10 hp or Death Effects, for 3 + Con rounds after reaching -10. Can be healed if HP damage. Cannot be healed if Death Effect(Dies after).

So this gets, at minimum, 13+ rounds to act after dying? This essentially means anybody taking this class can't ever lose in combat. Even if you meant con mod, it's still broken and should be entirely removed, because it makes anybody with this PrC guaranteed to draw any combat against an appropriately powerful encounter.


Improved Power Attack - +3 for -2 one handed, + 3 for -1 Two handed.

Why would you improve one of the best feats in the game?


Shadow Stride(Su) - As Maneuver, At Will, usable once per round

This is random.


True Death(Su) - Servants of Khyber, Evil Outsiders, Undead and Evil Aberrations are always utterly destroyed.

So... they instantly kill all of these when they take this? This ability is vague and seems to imply that whenever they meet any of these things, they instantly die.


Ravaging Dispell(SL) - Can use Improved Dispell, as the spell, every 1d6 rounds. For each effect dispelled, can deal 1d6 + Con damage per effect's level on the user. Can choose whether will cause damage for each effect.

Improved dispell doesn't exist. It won't dispel anything if it's dispelling at your PrC level as caster level, but dealing 1d6+at minimum 10 per spell is nuts. If you meant 1d6+ con modifier damage, then it's not really that great, and if you meant 1d6 con damage per spell, it's broken.


Blindsight(Ex) - 30 ft

Again, random.


Shadow Blink(Su) - As Maneuver, At Will, usable once per round.

Seeing as it is a standard action, it would be hard to shadow blink more than once a round anyway.


B]Destined of Eberron[/B](Ex) - + 2 on all saves, + 2 CA, permanent Death Ward, Immune to fatigue & Ehxaustion, nonlethal damage, disease, poison, ability drain & damage.

Again, this is random, but this is really powerful... this guy, at this point, has high saves, can't be killed by death effects, can't be killed by HP damage because he'll just keep fighting for more rounds than combat usually lasts, and can't be killed by any other method. Also, what is "CA?"


Supreme Power Attack - +3 for -1 one handed, + 4 for -1 2 handed.

Again, why are you buffing one of the most powerful melee feats in the game?


Disjunctive Purge(SL) - Can use Mordenkainen's Disjunction, 1 + Con times per day.

Disjunction is broken and should be removed from all games. No character would use it because it would destroy their loot, and no DM should use it because it's worse to die and lose a level than it is to lose all your gear.


Vessel of war(Su) - As a swift action, can draw upon the essence of Eberron to fight. + 1/2 Character Level on STR, CON & DEX, Haste, Enlarge Person, Flight, gain Fast Healing 5, DR 10/-, SR = Character level + Con, Immunity to enchantments & Illusions. Can mantain this form for 3 + Con rounds. After it ends, cannot use again for as many minutes as spent rounds. Can use at will.

OK, what? Why does it get either worthless (SR + con mod, which is what I assume, so you'd only fail on a roll of six or seven or lower), or absurd SR (SR + con, where you'd resist all spells)? Why do you get so many abilities? Why do you get it for so many rounds (even with con mod, it's a full encounter for sure)? Why is it at will? Why do you get so many buffs?

In short, this class is random and offers little besides a bunch of random numerical bonuses with no clear theme. It's powerful, since it lets you be essentially impossible to kill in a standard encounter (you'd die afterwards) and gives you tons of flat out numerical bonuses, but it's just... random.

Destined Warrior
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Unnatural Sense, Die Hard

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Supreme Cleave, Fearless

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Thicket of Blades, Dispelling Burst

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Undying Destiny, Improved Power Attack

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Shadow Stride, True Death

6th|
+6|
+5|
+2|
+5|Ravaging Dispell, Blindsight

7th|
+7|
+5|
+2|
+5|Shadow Blink, Masterful Warrior

8th|
+8|
+6|
+2|
+6|Destined of Eberron, Supreme Power Attack

9th|
+9|
+6|
+3|
+6|Disjunctive Purge

10th|
+10|
+7|
+3|
+7|Vessel of War[/table][/QUOTE]

[Il_Vec]

Think of the classes I mentioned above. Paladin. Frenzied berserker. Shadow Dancer. Mage Slayer. Heir of Siberys. Each one has a single uniting theme that unites all the elements of the class.

And each of them, except FB and individual powerful builds, is low powered at higher levels.
But I see your point here. I indeed had in mind some greater-than-life type warrior, one who could adapt to all kinds of encounters and was meant to grand things in service of Eberron. I need to give the class more focus, but I'd like him to stay versatile.




This PrC lets you join as evil, so why is it an anti evil PrC?

Heroes may hunt evil while being evil themselves. If that's what it takes to purge the damned Khyber.



You only have regular cleave, so why would you need a step between multiple cleaves?

My bad, sorry. I meant take 5-ft step after each cleave attack. If you only have one, that may mean that you can take 2 5-ft steps during your full attack.



So this gets, at minimum, 13+ rounds to act after dying? This essentially means anybody taking this class can't ever lose in combat. Even if you meant con mod, it's still broken and should be entirely removed, because it makes anybody with this PrC guaranteed to draw any combat against an appropriately powerful encounter.

Sorry, Con modifier. It's about the same duration of Rage.



Why would you improve one of the best feats in the game?


Because it's one of the best melee feats. And plain melee just isn't that good.



Improved dispell doesn't exist. It won't dispel anything if it's dispelling at your PrC level as caster level, but dealing 1d6+at minimum 10 per spell is nuts. If you meant 1d6+ con modifier damage, then it's not really that great, and if you meant 1d6 con damage per spell, it's broken.

Greater Dispell, sorry. And I really meant dispelled effect level x (1d6 + Con modifier)



Seeing as it is a standard action, it would be hard to shadow blink more than once a round anyway.

Shadow Blink is a swift action manuever. You're thinking Shadow Jaunt.



Again, this is random, but this is really powerful... this guy, at this point, has high saves, can't be killed by death effects, can't be killed by HP damage because he'll just keep fighting for more rounds than combat usually lasts, and can't be killed by any other method. Also, what is "CA?"

CA is a typo for AC. My bad.



Disjunction is broken and should be removed from all games. No character would use it because it would destroy their loot, and no DM should use it because it's worse to die and lose a level than it is to lose all your gear.


You don't need to use it on your loot. You can use it to get rid of battlefield control spells, magical barriers, walls of force, and heavily buffed enemies.

I am thinking about all the points you made, I just answered the ones I saw needed clarification.I really appreciate the input on this. It is the first time I try to make a homebrew class.

[jiriku]

And each of them, except FB and individual powerful builds, is low powered at higher levels.
But I see your point here. I indeed had in mind some greater-than-life type warrior, one who could adapt to all kinds of encounters and was meant to grand things in service of Eberron. I need to give the class more focus, but I'd like him to stay versatile.

This is true, they aren't exactly inspiring classes. But you are in little danger of creating a weak class here. I could also point out that IotSV, Planar Shephard, incantantrix, dweomerkeeper, and abjurant chapmpion also have pretty coherent themes. but I think we understand each other.

Much of what I find lacking could probably be fixed pretty easily simply by writing up a paragraph or two of fluff, then going through the crunch, discarding any abilities that don't match the theme established by the fluff, and replacing them with abilities of equivalent power and versatility that or more tightly associated with the theme. Sort of the game design equivalent of doing a find-and-replace in a word document.

[Milskidasith]

Heroes may hunt evil while being evil themselves. If that's what it takes to purge the damned Khyber.

That's still contradictory and wouldn't make sense unless your hero was a very specific type of evil (thinks he's still good); a warrior in it "for the evulz" could (sort of) easily take this PrC and never use the detect evil.


My bad, sorry. I meant take 5-ft step after each cleave attack. If you only have one, that may mean that you can take 2 5-ft steps during your full attack.

That's reasonable, then.


Sorry, Con modifier. It's about the same duration of Rage.

Rage doesn't make you invincible. Remove the ability entirely.


Because it's one of the best melee feats. And plain melee just isn't that good.

This doesn't solve the problem... you talk like you understand that melee is weak, but you don't know why. Strictly numeric bonuses don't help melee, they just make Ubercharging even more absurd and encourage DMs to limit melee from doing their tricks more because they're going to one shot foes if they get in. Basically, adding higher numbers to melee damage doesn't improve melee, it just makes it seem broken to DMs who don't have foes who can defend against it.


Greater Dispell, sorry. And I really meant dispelled effect level x (1d6 + Con modifier)

Still won't be dispelling anything, since you'll be, at best, five levels below the enemy in terms of casting. Since it's based on this guys class level, greater dispel will never even matter since you'll never have more than an effective CL of ten.


Shadow Blink is a swift action manuever. You're thinking Shadow Jaunt.

You still only get one swift action per round; if you use abilities to get more, no reason to specifically limit it.


CA is a typo for AC. My bad.

The feature is, overall, still a bunch of random immunities for no reason.


You don't need to use it on your loot. You can use it to get rid of battlefield control spells, magical barriers, walls of force, and heavily buffed enemies.

It hits everything... if you use it, it'll burn up your loot even if you only want to dispel buffs. It's DM Fiat if it doesn't.

[Fawsto]

I am the DM to whom this PrC will be presented. I must say that I have some issues with it, I don't know if you see them too, or it is just me.

First: Detect Evil Always on is kind of... Let's say... A Slap on the Paladin's Face? I mean, it is not a big deal or anything, but it does not seem fine. Another friend of ours who DMs constantly for us decided that any "Detect Evil Class Feature" would turn into a "Disturbance in the Force" thing. The "Detect X" spells on the other hand function normaly.

Seccond: Undying Destiny mimics and does better than a 8th level stance from ToB: Immortal Fortitude from Devoted Spirit. Also, you get it earlier than a Crusader would get Immortal Fortitude (if my calculations are right).

Third: The PA improvements. Seriously, besides making an ubbercharger more ubber, I do not have issues against it. Salvo one: Why the hell no other Meleers are able to do this naturally? I mean, what kind of special training makes you able to PA more efficiently while a same level Fighter cannot, neither a Paladin, or any other martial PrC besides Frenzied Berseker? I mean, to do this the Frenzied Berseker gives up its ability to be totally controled by it's player (you, of all people should know this, Vec).

Fourth: Destined of Eberron. Untiped Bonuses for Saves and AC? Maybe if you tipe them? I mean, this class already has 2 good saves, would a +2 bonus really matter? Would a +2 to AC matter at this level (when most creatures bypass your AC by attacking to +26?). Now, perma-DeathWard is something without pair. This and the other abilities granted by this feature can be found at the Bone Knight, still them, the BK has only 3 really good features: d10 HD, Spellcasting (the best one of course) and those Imunities. Everything else is more fluff than anything, not a bunch of powerful class features.

The biggest issue, though, is that, for some reason, this is the only melee class that is worth taking levels. Creating this class has not improved even the slightest the relation between casters and non-casters. This is why we must put this class on a table and allow our entire gaming group to discuss it. I do not feel able to decide this alone.

Edit: For the record: AC = CA -> "Armor Class" = "Classe de Armadura". The translation in our lenguage.