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View Full Version : How does one make the fastest character...ever!(3.5)



Protecar
2010-06-11, 05:43 PM
That is the question. Minimal cheese please--ideally the speed would always be in effect, bonus points for alternate forms of movement(flight, burrow, etc.). Preferably not a spellcaster primarily(obviously they can do anything).

It seems rather interesting for a potential hit-and-run-very-far-very-fast melee character, which is kind of what I'm looking for.

So...any ideas? :smallbiggrin:

(I know, blame the optimizing speed thread for this :smalltongue:)

Edit: all of 3.5 is open to you. If there's any helpful(and well-thought) homebrewed/third party, feel free to mention it.

Asheram
2010-06-11, 05:46 PM
That is the question. Minimal cheese please--ideally the speed would always be in effect, bonus points for alternate forms of movement(flight, burrow, etc.). Preferably not a spellcaster primarily(obviously they can do anything).

It seems rather interesting for a potential hit-and-run-very-far-very-fast melee character, which is kind of what I'm looking for.

So...any ideas? :smallbiggrin:

(I know, blame the optimizing speed thread for this :smalltongue:)

Edit: all of 3.5 is open to you. If there's any helpful(and well-thought) homebrewed/third party, feel free to mention it.

Well, there's always Chuck E. Cheese (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19861942/Chuck_E._Cheese) but it's all in the name, I'm afraid.

Protecar
2010-06-11, 05:59 PM
*looks over build* Wow....that's....ridiculous. lol. It'd be awesome to play...but wow!

The Glyphstone
2010-06-11, 06:02 PM
Slightly less ridiculous. Chuck can't actually break the speed of light anymore, since Footsteps of the Divine got Errated to be (D). He's just absurdly fast now instead of lucicrously fast.

arguskos
2010-06-11, 06:04 PM
I like a Centaur Barbarian/Scout/Horizon Walker. Why? Centaurs are quick, Barb/Scout gives movement benefits, and Horizon Walker gives you Dim Door once every 1d4 rounds, which can cover immense distances in a leap. It lets you break up your running with large jumps. It's not the best (not Chuck after all), but it is quick.

Protecar
2010-06-11, 06:07 PM
Still, I'm looking for something I could actually play without my DM hitting me with 3d10 books. :smalleek: Something mundane:

like in the other thread, I think it was mentioned monk 3/scout 3/barabarian 1 all give speed boosts. Assuming they stack, I guess that would be a (rather mediocre) start to a build. Maybe take the run feat? I think someone once mentioned being able to break up your movement score using a feat or something(i.e. move in, attack, move out in a round). Anybody know where I could find that?

Edit: @arguskos Hmmmm...not a bad idea. Centaurs are a...LA +1? or +2?

Curmudgeon
2010-06-11, 06:18 PM
I think it was mentioned monk 3/scout 3/barabarian 1 all give speed boosts. Assuming they stack
They don't stack, because both Monk and Scout fast movement are enhancement bonuses.

Protecar
2010-06-11, 06:19 PM
They don't stack, because both Monk and Scout fast movement are enhancement bonuses.

You're killin' me smalls.

hafgan
2010-06-11, 06:19 PM
Human Cleric 1/Barbarian 1 with the Quick Trait and Celerity domain can have 60ft base speed at lvl 2

Curmudgeon
2010-06-11, 06:25 PM
You can boost your base speed quite a bit with Alter Self. The Varag (Monster Manual IV, pages 168-171) is only 3 HD but has a base speed of 60'. Then you add Quick (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick3), the Celerity domain, and whatnot. :smallcool:

Protecar
2010-06-11, 06:26 PM
Human Cleric 1/Barbarian 1 with the Quick Trait and Celerity domain can have 60ft base speed at lvl 2

hmmm...that's a nice start. I suppose some clerical persisting wouldn't be too bad if it helped. Bleh. I'd rather avoid going down that route. If I ever tried a character like this, I think a cleric would be in the group already.

So...cleric 1/Barb 1.....Scout 3? Maybe as a Centaur? What does that add up to?

Edit: Already tried the later self route for changing into things--DM is kinda tight-fisted with using that power so that's out. Maybe I could take a LA creature/template for extra speed though(ie centaur)

Starscream
2010-06-11, 06:26 PM
The Shadow Template increases your speed by 50%, rather than a specific amount. This doesn't include speed boosts from classes, but simply add it to the fastest race you know and Bam!

Seems to apply to all movement modes, as well. An Air Elemental with the template would be able to fly at 150 feet, for example.

RandomNPC
2010-06-11, 06:29 PM
Still, I'm looking for something I could actually play without my DM hitting me with 3d10 books. :smalleek: Something mundane:

like in the other thread, I think it was mentioned monk 3/scout 3/barabarian 1 all give speed boosts. Assuming they stack, I guess that would be a (rather mediocre) start to a build. Maybe take the run feat? I think someone once mentioned being able to break up your movement score using a feat or something(i.e. move in, attack, move out in a round). Anybody know where I could find that?

Edit: @arguskos Hmmmm...not a bad idea. Centaurs are a...LA +1? or +2?

spring attack, but remember one attack, not full. This is phb fyi (yeay abreviations!)

Protecar
2010-06-11, 06:31 PM
@ Starscream What's the LA on a shadow template? That sounds nice, but I'll have to find the lowest LA with fastest base speed creature I can(looked up centaur and +2 for 50 base seems weak[not to mention no alternate movement forms])

Spring Attack! Cool, thanks. What book is that?

Starscream
2010-06-11, 06:33 PM
@ Starscream What's the LA on a shadow template? That sounds nice, but I'll have to find the lowest LA with fastest base speed creature I can(looked up centaur and +2 for 50 base seems weak[not to mention no alternate movement forms])

Spring Attack! Cool, thanks. What book is that?

It's a +2 template. I'm playing a rogue with it right now. Fun template.

Protecar
2010-06-11, 06:36 PM
Hmmm....a +2 hurts. I may have to try for a +0 race then so I'm not totally a pile of suck if this was to work.

The Glyphstone
2010-06-11, 06:37 PM
Centaur would cost you 4 racial HD and +2 LA, a total of 6 class levels, for +20ft. base speed. Not a good tradeoff.

I'd go Shadow Human Cloistered Cleric 1/Scout 3/Ranger 14, with the Quick trait and focus on archery. You'll have a base speed of (30+10+10)x1.5+10=85ft./round, at level 5. Take pure Ranger after that and get the Swift Hunter feat at level 6, for delicious Manyshot Skirmish shenanigans.

Expeditious Retreat will be your Domain spell from the Celerity domain, overlapping with Scout for a movement speed of 105ft.

balistafreak
2010-06-11, 06:37 PM
I believe the Freedom Mantle for Ardents also gives an untyped +10 ft. bonus to base land speed.

Protecar
2010-06-11, 06:41 PM
Where's this Shadow thing from? I looked it up online and it said it was an LA+3, not two. Different shadows maybe? I like the idea of pushing for Ranger, and I could probably take the quickness trait for another +10...

Curmudgeon
2010-06-11, 06:42 PM
Centaur would cost you 4 racial HD and +2 LA, a total of 6 class levels, for +20ft. base speed. Not a good tradeoff.
Varag is slightly better: 3 racial HD and +2 LA, for +30' base speed. Also Run as a racial bonus feat.

nedz
2010-06-11, 06:43 PM
Does having a mount count ?

Wildshaping Ranger ?

Lycanthropy ?

How about a Marshal cohort - Grant Move Action 1/day/4 levels ?
Oh and Major Aura-Motivate Urgancy

Fiend of Possession
Become Ethereal at will.
Possess an arrow, get someone to fire you.

Favoured Soul (or several other classes/PrCs)
Wings

Warlock - Fell Flight

Templates - I guess you could stack several of these
Half Fiend, Lemorian - Fly at Base Move
Half Dragon(if Large), Half Fey - fly at twice Base Move
Half Janni - Planer Jaunt
Half Raksghasa, Half Minotaur, Half Ogre +10 move
Air Elemental Creature - Fly 100
Wendigo - Fly 120
Shadow Creature - +50% Movement
Arachnoid - Climb at half base

Protecar
2010-06-11, 06:43 PM
Blah. Races don't seem to show much love for a better base speed.

Edit: Oh wow. That's quite a list.

I like shadow, but if it's +3 I don't think I'd bother. If warlock could be blended in for flying that would be interesting. I would still like to be able to zip in and out of combat, but I like Warlocks so I could settle. I think those other templates would really hurt in terms of LA/HDs though. :smallconfused:

The Glyphstone
2010-06-11, 06:47 PM
Where's this Shadow thing from? I looked it up online and it said it was an LA+3, not two. Different shadows maybe? I like the idea of pushing for Ranger, and I could probably take the quickness trait for another +10...

It's printed in Lords of Madness, a LA+2 template. You get some other nice HD-dependent goodies as you level up (Cold Resistant, Fast Healing, DR/Magic), but the real kicker is Supernatural Hide in Plain Sight whenever you're not exposed to natural daylight.

Quick is already included in the 85ft. calculations.


Varag is slightly better: 3 racial HD and +2 LA, for +30' base speed.
True, but we're sacrificing a lot of class levels at that point. The Shadow Human with Quick and Celerity domain has a unmodified speed of 75ft by sacrificing 2 class levels. A Shadow Varag with Quick and Celerity domain would have a unmodified speed of 120ft, but at the cost of 7 class levels. I'd rather keep the Ranger levels to ensure getting over +16 BAB.

Protecar
2010-06-11, 06:49 PM
Hmmm...would a dip of Barbarian 1 work for another +10 that way? Plus rage is nice. :D

The Glyphstone
2010-06-11, 06:52 PM
Nope, it won't stack with the Scout movement boost. Since you'll be Archery-focused, you won't need the Pounce ACF, and Rage only helps if you take Whirling Frenzy, which isn't really necessary, and counterproductive to movement. Better to stick with Ranger levels, since 17 combined levels of Scout and Ranger will get you 4 Favored enemies and +5d6/+4 AC Skirmish.

Protecar
2010-06-11, 06:54 PM
:smallconfused: These non-stackable land speed things are quite the nuisance. What about the ratite race? http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Beastfolk,_Birdfolk_%283.5e_Race%29 It has a base land speed of 40--giving an effective +15 base land speed(thanks to shadow). It'd be another +1 LA though.

The Glyphstone
2010-06-11, 06:55 PM
That's homebrew. Homebrew is icky. It'd also cost you that precious +1d6 skirmish damage from having 17 Ranger/Scout levels, which is probably worth more than another 15ft. of speed.

Protecar
2010-06-11, 06:56 PM
Oh. Whoops. Well....dang :/

The Glyphstone
2010-06-11, 06:57 PM
Honestly, over 100ft. of movement/round with only Expeditious Retreat should be all you need for actual combat. Much more and it's just a thought exercise, where Chuck E. Cheese has you beat already.

Protecar
2010-06-11, 06:59 PM
Hmmm...I suppose you're right. That doesn't seem too bad either. I know rangers aren't great, but I'd like an archer--and an archer that's fast would be pretty cool. Any ranger prestige classes worth branching into?

arguskos
2010-06-11, 07:00 PM
That's homebrew. Homebrew is icky. It'd also cost you that precious +1d6 skirmish damage from having 17 Ranger/Scout levels, which is probably worth more than another 15ft. of speed.
You know, all the folks who make that for the community might be annoyed that you so casually dismiss an entire way of playing the game. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

Also, yes, sorry, I suggested Centaur (and Varag IS better, I just forgot it at the time) because I thought this was a thought experiment to make a very fast character who wasn't absurd levels of cheese like Chuck is. For a serious character, I'd probably suggest Varag and use LA buyoff liberally.

The Glyphstone
2010-06-11, 07:04 PM
You know, all the folks who make that for your enjoyment might be annoyed that you so casually dismiss an entire way of playing the game.
You're right, my bad. I should have said "That's D&D Wiki, D&D Wiki is icky." (yay rhyming). It's like the Mos Eisley of 3.5 homebrew in terms of variability of quality. Homebrew in general is also a bad thing to depend on for builds unless it's already been cleared with the DM.



Hmmm...I suppose you're right. That doesn't seem too bad either. I know rangers aren't great, but I'd like an archer--and an archer that's fast would be pretty cool. Any ranger prestige classes worth branching into?


Not really, and you want to stick with Ranger all the way through, because you'll be taking the Swift Hunter feat at level 6 with your first ranger level. It's a feat in Complete Scoundrel that combines your Ranger levels and Scout levels for Skirmish and Favored Enemy. With Manyshot and Greater Manyshot, you cap out getting to move and full-attack at range with +5d6Skirmish damage applied to every arrow fired, along with your Favored Enemy bonuses if they apply (+8,+6,+4,and+2 since you get 4 of them).

The Shadowmind
2010-06-11, 07:09 PM
Dark from the Tome of magic I think is a +1 LA, for +10 speed, and the (Ex) Hide in plain sight, and other bonuses: it can be gotten from a item from 22,000gp for constant or a cheaper 10 minute a day version.

The Glyphstone
2010-06-11, 07:14 PM
Dark Template is really inferior though, even at LA +1. It's version of HIPS is the weakest one out there, since it still requires you to supply a source of concealment or cover, which shadows alone aren't sufficient to grant.

Soras Teva Gee
2010-06-11, 07:15 PM
Just throwing this in there while it only add a +20 enhancement bonus to base speed if you have room for 6 (or 5 with BAB from elsewhere) Wizard levels and are still under 10 then the Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) should be a force magnifier for you. Adding a number of nice benefits but particularly the 9th level ability which gives you an entire extra action letting you have up to three move actions to use your speed in. And haste adds a +30 enhancement that stacks with the other for collective of +50 enhancement.

The Glyphstone
2010-06-11, 07:16 PM
OP said he didn't want a primary caster, otherwise Swiftblade would definitely have been an excellent option.

The Shadowmind
2010-06-11, 07:22 PM
Dark Template is really inferior though, even at LA +1. It's version of HIPS is the weakest one out there, since it still requires you to supply a source of concealment or cover, which shadows alone aren't sufficient to grant.

Yes it is far inferior to shadow, but they stack, and if you have the gold it isn't LA +1, is it LA +0.

Soras Teva Gee
2010-06-11, 07:37 PM
OP said he didn't want a primary caster, otherwise Swiftblade would definitely have been an excellent option.

Its more of a swordmage class though, you could keep it as low as CL 11 I believe... yeah I know. Aww nuts.

Brock Samson
2010-06-11, 07:45 PM
I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone mention Travel Devotion feat, since one level of Cloistered Cleric was mentioned, it seems like a no-brainer. It's not a direct movement speed bonus, but it's an extra move action on your swift action, which seems even more valuable with your increased base speed. Not to mention move in, standard fire, swift move away.

arguskos
2010-06-11, 07:53 PM
You're right, my bad. I should have said "That's D&D Wiki, D&D Wiki is icky." (yay rhyming). It's like the Mos Eisley of 3.5 homebrew in terms of variability of quality. Homebrew in general is also a bad thing to depend on for builds unless it's already been cleared with the DM.

I will agree that relying on brew sans pre-approval is bad, though, same could be said for any material in the entire game (and should be so said more frequently).

D&D Wiki... does tend towards a high degree of utterly unchecked stuff, this is true. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. >_>

Stompy
2010-06-11, 08:23 PM
I don't think some one has mentioned the catfolk from Races of the Wild, but it is a race with a 40' base land speed and it is LA +1, no racial HD.

Brendan
2010-06-11, 09:05 PM
awakened cheetah?

lokoone
2010-06-11, 09:43 PM
feathered wings(twice land speed) from fiend folio to fly speed =]

Samb
2010-06-11, 09:48 PM
I believe the Freedom Mantle for Ardents also gives an untyped +10 ft. bonus to base land speed.

Other psionc sources:
speed of thought adds 10 ft
atavist level 9 adds 5

HunterOfJello
2010-06-11, 10:55 PM
Also don't forget the Travel Devotion feat which lets you move your full move speed as a swift action for 1 minute and can be used 1/day. It can also be used extra times per day by spending 2 Turn Undead attempts.

That feat will easily double your speed a few times per day and can be taken instead of the Travel Domain.

Cleric with Celerity and Travel Devotion would be pretty fast at level 1.

Kaulesh
2010-06-11, 11:04 PM
If the DM allows using stuff from the Midnight Player's Handbook, take the Quickened heroic path. At level 18, you have a total of +20 fast movement (+5 at four different levels).

I seem to remember a third-party class (or maybe race) that has 110ft movement speed at level 20.

Darkxarth
2010-06-11, 11:06 PM
I know that there have been characters posted that are faster than this, but I thought I would bring it to attention since I built it. :)

Running 60+ mph at ECL 6. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96605)

Protecar
2010-06-12, 09:59 AM
Oh wow, a lot of helpful posts while I've been away. :smallbiggrin:

@Darkxarth--nice build you have going: I think I would really enjoy giving something like that a shot. Maybe stack the shadow template onto that character.

Soo....level 9 Shadow Catfolk Druid with Druidic Avenger/Swift and deadly hunter variants--taking both quick and run(Not bothering with dash)....

40 + 20 + 10 + 10 *1.5 = 120ft/round if I'm not missing something. And then 600ft/round when running. :smallbiggrin:

Hmmm...I think I like that. It's a druid that's pretty much forsaken all of it's broken magical abilities.

The only bad thing about that build is I'm not a melee and just a really fast caster it seems. :smallconfused: How can I take advantage of this speed?

Also, does anyone have an idea to do this outside of druid? I'm pretty open in melee and I'm find with a gish build of some sort. I just don't want a primary caster.

In short: I've decided that, if magic can make me extra fast and let me still be melee, I'm willing to open my mind to it.

Right now I'm thinking Barbarian 1/Scout 3 maybe....or Monk 3....or all of 'em. I just can't decide how to go about this best! :smallyuk:

Ryfte
2010-06-12, 03:00 PM
If oriental adventures is allowed (you did say all 3.5 sources but many groups allow OA with that) then you could look into the blade dancer PrC as well. It triples your base speed in 10 levels. As a varag with a 60' base along with shadow (lords of madness) allowing for +50% that's a base speed of 90'... blade dancer would give you a 270' base at 10th level of the PrC. *shrug*

And varag does give you the run feat AND the spring attack feat as bonus racial feats... and this doesn't include any other types of bonuses at all. In a gestalt game you could really take advantage of that druid build along with this... all legally without cheese or caster add ins. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Oh, technically... the +50% base speed from shadow template ONLY applies to your racial base speed. Each addition is counted separately and added on. Unless your DM rules otherwise... and if they do then you can really go way out there! Using that ruling and applying that to the Blade Dancer PrC it would get incredibly high.

Also, if you don't have to be ground based then the half-fey template (already listed by another) really is great as it simply doubles your base speed as a flight speed. So a varag for example ends up at 60' land speed as normal but a 120' flight speed not counting anything else. Not only that but you can take the flyby attack feat (or the entire line) which is inherently better than the other "move and attack" feat(s).

The Glyphstone
2010-06-12, 03:04 PM
Oh wow, a lot of helpful posts while I've been away. :smallbiggrin:

@Darkxarth--nice build you have going: I think I would really enjoy giving something like that a shot. Maybe stack the shadow template onto that character.

Soo....level 9 Shadow Catfolk Druid with Druidic Avenger/Swift and deadly hunter variants--taking both quick and run(Not bothering with dash)....

40 + 20 + 10 + 10 *1.5 = 120ft/round if I'm not missing something. And then 600ft/round when running. :smallbiggrin:

Hmmm...I think I like that. It's a druid that's pretty much forsaken all of it's broken magical abilities.

The only bad thing about that build is I'm not a melee and just a really fast caster it seems. :smallconfused: How can I take advantage of this speed?

Also, does anyone have an idea to do this outside of druid? I'm pretty open in melee and I'm find with a gish build of some sort. I just don't want a primary caster.

In short: I've decided that, if magic can make me extra fast and let me still be melee, I'm willing to open my mind to it.

Right now I'm thinking Barbarian 1/Scout 3 maybe....or Monk 3....or all of 'em. I just can't decide how to go about this best! :smallyuk:

Remember, Barbarian, Scout, Monk won't stack for extra movement, they're all Enhancement bonuses. And of the three, Monk is by far the worst option for both speed and effectiveness.

Thiyr
2010-06-12, 03:23 PM
Nitpick, Glyph, barbarian is actually untyped +10 (ref) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/barbarian.htm#barbarianFastMovement)

Volthawk
2010-06-12, 03:27 PM
It's printed in Lords of Madness, a LA+2 template. You get some other nice HD-dependent goodies as you level up (Cold Resistant, Fast Healing, DR/Magic), but the real kicker is Supernatural Hide in Plain Sight whenever you're not exposed to natural daylight.


Thing is, as Curmudgeon pointed out in another thread, you need a standard action to do it.


One important thing to note about the Shadow Blend ability is that it's Supernatural.


Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise.

The Shadowdancer's Hide in Plain Sight "notes otherwise" by using the Hide skill, which normally takes no action. But Shadow Blend is going to eat up a standard action whenever you use it.

Make of that what you will.

Protecar
2010-06-12, 03:55 PM
If oriental adventures is allowed (you did say all 3.5 sources but many groups allow OA with that) then you could look into the blade dancer PrC as well. It triples your base speed in 10 levels. As a varag with a 60' base along with shadow (lords of madness) allowing for +50% that's a base speed of 90'... blade dancer would give you a 270' base at 10th level of the PrC. *shrug*

And varag does give you the run feat AND the spring attack feat as bonus racial feats... and this doesn't include any other types of bonuses at all. In a gestalt game you could really take advantage of that druid build along with this... all legally without cheese or caster add ins. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Oh, technically... the +50% base speed from shadow template ONLY applies to your racial base speed. Each addition is counted separately and added on. Unless your DM rules otherwise... and if they do then you can really go way out there! Using that ruling and applying that to the Blade Dancer PrC it would get incredibly high.

Also, if you don't have to be ground based then the half-fey template (already listed by another) really is great as it simply doubles your base speed as a flight speed. So a varag for example ends up at 60' land speed as normal but a 120' flight speed not counting anything else. Not only that but you can take the flyby attack feat (or the entire line) which is inherently better than the other "move and attack" feat(s).

Hmmm...this is interesting. What are the LAs for Varag(base 60ft?) and half-fey? I mean, I'm already pushing a rough LA with shadow(although I love it).

So...shadow would just boost the varag base land speed to 90? + 10 = 100, Barbarian 1 = 110. Then the Prc would = 330? With half-fey that'd give me a flight speed of 660ft/round? Is that right or am I missing something?

Also, what kind of perks does a Blade Dancer come with? I'm not familiar with it.

Edit: @volthawk--honestly I haven't looked too much into the other perks of Shadow so if HiPS isn't that good, well, *shrug* no big. I've never had a character with that ability so I won't know the gem I'm missing out on. I'd just be happy figuring out how to make a ridiculous movement speed applicable in combat somehow.

Jyokage
2010-06-12, 06:38 PM
I don't know if maybe you already have decided on a route, but I am also a speed loving character maker. My idea for your fast character is

Catfolk /La +1 = +40 base land speed
Quick Trait= +10 untyped increase to base
Barbarian/1= +10 Fast movement
If you want to go ranger take the barb variant that loses rage and gains favored enemy at level 1. Also, there are some other ranger variants I found on crystal keep, and somewhere I keep seeming to remember I found a ranger that got fighter feats instead of something...Anyways, for 1 LA you can be rocking a constant 60 base land speed. For more LA you can have crazier speed, but this is a nice simple ramp up for a fast melee character at ECL 2. By level 4 you can buy off your LA and only be about half a level behind your other teammates. This having been said, from here you could take the character anywhere melee wise. I hope this helps. :smallamused:
Personally I would be crazy and add the mineral warrior template to this for a burrow speed, damage reduction 8/adamantine, and other goodies. Then make a sweet backstory involving a crazy medusa as a nemesis that got away. :-}

Protecar
2010-06-12, 07:26 PM
I don't know if maybe you already have decided on a route, but I am also a speed loving character maker. My idea for your fast character is

Catfolk /La +1 = +40 base land speed
Quick Trait= +10 untyped increase to base
Barbarian/1= +10 Fast movement
If you want to go ranger take the barb variant that loses rage and gains favored enemy at level 1. Also, there are some other ranger variants I found on crystal keep, and somewhere I keep seeming to remember I found a ranger that got fighter feats instead of something...Anyways, for 1 LA you can be rocking a constant 60 base land speed. For more LA you can have crazier speed, but this is a nice simple ramp up for a fast melee character at ECL 2. By level 4 you can buy off your LA and only be about half a level behind your other teammates. This having been said, from here you could take the character anywhere melee wise. I hope this helps. :smallamused:
Personally I would be crazy and add the mineral warrior template to this for a burrow speed, damage reduction 8/adamantine, and other goodies. Then make a sweet backstory involving a crazy medusa as a nemesis that got away. :-}

Oooo....I like the way you think. :smallsmile: Umm, what's the LA of a mineral warrior template? And where does that come from? I'm not really set on any particular character style--although archer or quick-attacking character would be cool. I would love to add another move type to my repertoire: and burrowing is pretty nice.

How do you utilize the movement speed though? Is there anything in combat that can take advantage of large move speeds? I think spring attack would be good, but is there any other way to utilize hit-and-run or some such tactics?

Jyokage
2010-06-12, 09:04 PM
Well I snagged mineral warrior from crystal keeps list of templates, but I hear it is from an underdark supplement for faerun pg. 96. Mineral warriors are created from people who were partially petrified. A small blurb might help:
LA: +1
Abilities: The character's abilities are modified as follows - Str +2, Con +4, Int -2, Wis -2, Cha -2.

Size and Type: The creature's type remains the same but gains the Earth subtype. Size is unchanged.

Speed: Gain a burrow speed equal to one-half the base creature's highest speed. If the base creature could fly, it loses that ability.

Armour Class: Natural armour improves by +3.

Special Attacks: In addition to the special attacks of the base creature, the mineral warrior gains Earth Strike (Ex). Once per day, the character adds its Con score to its attack roll and adds +1 damager per character level.

Darkvision (Ex): Darvision out to 60 ft

Damage Reduction (Ex): Gains damage reduction of 8/adamantine.
So I think that with all the advantages here you could have a seriously fun (If slightly weaker than normal) melee character. You would be LA2, so take that into account. However +4 con, +3 NA, and decent damage reduction would make him (or her) slightly less squishy. Definately not a maxed out character, but one with some interesting character development there to exploit. :smallbiggrin:
Ah, btw a Catfolk Mineral warrior would look like this:
Catfolk Mineral Warrior
Medium Humanoid (Earth)

Stat Adj: STR:+2 CON:+4 DEX:+4 INT:-2 WIS:-2 CHR: +0
Natural Armour: +4
Low Light Vision: x2 Human in low light conditions (Can still see color)
Darkvision: 60 ft.
Base Land Speed: (Assuming quick and barb 1) 60
Burrow Speed: 30 (Doesn't work on stone I believe; only dirt)
Racial HD: None :-(

Special Abilities: ~
Damage Reduction (Ex): Gains damage reduction of 8/adamantine
Special Attacks: In addition to the special attacks of the base creature, the mineral warrior gains Earth Strike (Ex). Once per day, the character adds its Con score to its attack roll and adds +1 damager per character level.
Whoo! Well hope this idea sees the light of day somewhere. :-}

Angrist
2010-06-12, 10:55 PM
You should try Longstride Shifter from Eberron, that plus the Longstide elite feat will give +20 movement. Races of Eberron has the Reachrunner PrC that gives another +10 movement and Lion's charge at 5th level mix that with barbarian or scout and you have a fast mover that hits hard.

true_shinken
2010-06-13, 09:39 AM
No one is faster than Chuck (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19861942/Chuck_E._Cheese).

The Glyphstone
2010-06-13, 09:44 AM
No one is faster than Chuck (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19861942/Chuck_E._Cheese).

Who was linked in the second post of the thread...

Kaulesh
2010-06-13, 10:50 AM
As an update to my previous post, the class I was thinking of is Oathsworn from Arcana Evolved. At level 25, you've got an unarmored speed of 110 if you're Medium or Large. It seems to replace your racial speed. I guess it can stack with other increases.

Hague
2010-06-13, 11:21 AM
The Skate power is a Psychoportation power. It grants +15 enhancement to movement speed on level ground, +0 uphill and +30 downhill. The cool part about Skate is that it can be applied to objects, meaning you can manifest it on a boulder and roll it down a hill for lots of extra damage (at the DM's discretion). Additionally, manifesting on objects will let you move really heavy things quite easily. Use Psionic Device and a Dorje of Skate will get you where you need to go in this regard. Though, after looking at Expeditious Retreat, this bonus seems a little weak :P

Gametime
2010-06-13, 12:39 PM
Don't use Catfolk, if you have access to Oriental Adventures anyway; the Nezumi race has a 40 ft. base speed and no level adjustment.

Stompy
2010-06-13, 04:20 PM
How do you utilize the movement speed though? Is there anything in combat that can take advantage of large move speeds? I think spring attack would be good, but is there any other way to utilize hit-and-run or some such tactics?

Depending on terrain, "kiting" (the act of using ranged attacks and then running away from melee combatants) can be really good. I would say that if you are doing archery, grab long shot, and if you are going the magic route, look at long range spells or get a metamagic rod of enlarge, lesser. I say this because sometimes you do not want to be within (normal) medium range of someone.

Also, a large speed can help you do hit and run tactics. Hide, launch an attack, and then run away until the opponent can no longer see you, and repeat. This works best if you can take out their method of transportation (horses, carriage, etc.).

Protecar
2010-06-14, 06:07 AM
Don't use Catfolk, if you have access to Oriental Adventures anyway; the Nezumi race has a 40 ft. base speed and no level adjustment.

You sir, have made my day: an LA +0 with 40 base land speed is what I was looking for. :smallbiggrin:

Are there any decent LA 0 templates with alternate move forms? Flying, burrow, climbing, etc? I'm still set on using the Shadow template so I want to keep my LA use in other places to a minimum. LA 1 would be acceptable too, but preferably an LA 0 something.

Thanks for the help all!

2xMachina
2010-06-14, 08:20 AM
Dragonborn for wings. (Keep speed/size, but lose other race features though).

Is your class set? Cause DFA can get wings that are base speed+30 whole day.

Volthawk
2010-06-14, 11:33 AM
Amphibious gives you a swim speed and amphibiousness for -2 Dexterity. Stormwrack.

9mm
2010-06-14, 12:38 PM
featherd wings graft: 2x landspeed flight. really cheap too.

Jallorn
2010-06-14, 01:58 PM
Did you know that Boots of Expeditious Retreat cost 4000 gp.

Yup, that's it for a +30 boost to your speed.

Rowan Intheback
2010-06-14, 02:35 PM
Ok here's my advice. Go catfolk they are one of the few practical races with a 40' base speed, something with a bonus to Str, or human cause duh.

Then do barb 1/scout 3/rouge as many as you want and then go into Dervish
take the swift ambusher feats to stack sneak attack and skirmish. That way you hit hard and keep moving by climbing the mobility tree into dervish. Or you just take travel devotion. Acrobatic Skirmisher and Improved Acrobatic Skirmisher add dice for moving super fast.

This build keeps you mobile and makes you a very hard hitter.

ALMOST FORGOT:

Take mobility skill tricks. Why? They are fun and the give you an excuse to take the Freerunner feat. Also They help when pesky buildings get in the way.

Protecar
2010-06-14, 05:21 PM
Again, thanks for all the replies! I'll try to address most of the suggestions:

Race--I'm pretty set on Nezumi(OA) now. 40 base land speed, +2 Con, and scent for no LA is pretty nice.

Template(s): Shadow is still something I would really like to fit in(even with the painful +2LA. Will it's 50% speed boost compliment any of the other boosts I'm trying to get though?

Class--still thinking a dip of Barb 1, or Ranger 1 with Barb variant(I'd take both if they'd stack). After that, most anything is up in the air, I'd rather buy a graft then invest in a class that doesn't seem to work well with my melee orientation.

I'll have to look into Dervish. I'm not familiar with the class but it sounds like it has my cup of tea. Might shell out 3 levels in Scout if it helps progress my melee prowess.

Items/Misc:

Boots of expeditious retreat granting a +30 to base speed? Yes please!
Feathered Wings Graft: Double my landspeed for my flight speed for 10k? Again, sign me up!

Also: taking Quick. Run Feat? I have to figure out if it's worth going from x4 to x5 in a situation.

So, right now it's looking like: Shadow Nezumi: Barb 1/Scout 3/Dervish X(tentative) with feathery wings and sweet boots!

So: 40 *1.5 + 10 + 10 + 10 = 90 + 30 from boots = 120/6 seconds.
Giving me either 480ft/6 running or 600ft/6s. Also, I'd have 240 flight speed.

I'm liking this quite a bit! :smallbiggrin: I just have to make an effective build with this stuff now. *goes back to check if he's missing any boosts*

Edit: looking back over, maybe I should be a Varag: gives me a couple free feats I would want, and starts with 60 base land speed. I could effectively give up the Shadow template and save me and LA and have the same speeds as above. Of course if I did both....amazing speed ensues.

Also: perhaps I could dip Cloistered Cleric for...Travel Devotion for an extra move action?

Edit again: Blah, Varag doesn't have 60 base speed. I misread. Oh well, Nezumi look cooler :smalltongue:

Gametime
2010-06-14, 06:49 PM
If you're going into Dervish, Ranger instead of Barbarian is a good idea for the two-weapon fighting feats. Also, depending on how many levels of Dervish you take, rounding out the build with Ranger levels and taking Swift Hunter for more skirmish damage is a good way to take advantage of all the scurrying around you'll be doing.

The Glyphstone
2010-06-14, 08:13 PM
Did you know that Boots of Expeditious Retreat cost 4000 gp.

Yup, that's it for a +30 boost to your speed.

So do Gloves of Continuous True Strike.:smallcool:

Protecar
2010-06-14, 08:29 PM
If you're going into Dervish, Ranger instead of Barbarian is a good idea for the two-weapon fighting feats. Also, depending on how many levels of Dervish you take, rounding out the build with Ranger levels and taking Swift Hunter for more skirmish damage is a good way to take advantage of all the scurrying around you'll be doing.

I looked at Dervish and it seems like it is the class I'm looking for. Does anyone know of where I can find a guide to stacking bonuses(i.e. enchantments, base, unnamed, etc.)--because it looks like the Dervish movement speed boost wouldn't stack with my other boosts.

@Glyphstone: Where are these speed boosting gloves? A quick google came up blank.

Edit: also, where can I find the celerity domain? That sounds like a nice way to boost my base land speed if I dip cleric 1 level. And it says it boosts the race's base land speed--so does that mean it will combine with the boost from being a shadow?

Jallorn
2010-06-14, 09:13 PM
So do Gloves of Continuous True Strike.:smallcool:

Nope, it doesn't have a proper duration and so cannot be made into a continuous cast item.

2xMachina
2010-06-15, 03:21 AM
Use activated then?

Protecar
2010-06-15, 09:42 AM
Updated: I was looking through the Fiend Folio and found the fast leg graft: for a mere 4k I can improve my character's speed by another 10ft(and since it applies to the character itself, I would think it counts with the shadow template): totaling up to 135ft/6 sec and a 270 flight speed! :smallbiggrin:

Anyone have anything else to add? Any suggestions for other templates, classes to add? I'm still sitting with Barbarian1/Scout 3/Dervish 10 right now.

Volthawk
2010-06-15, 09:46 AM
Updated: I was looking through the Fiend Folio and found the fast leg graft: for a mere 4k I can improve my character's speed by another 10ft(and since it applies to the character itself, I would think it counts with the shadow template): totaling up to 135ft/6 sec and a 270 flight speed! :smallbiggrin:

Anyone have anything else to add? Any suggestions for other templates, classes to add? I'm still sitting with Barbarian1/Scout 3/Dervish 10 right now.

I suppose you'll be neutral/evil, then.

Also, how about the Maug graft Rollers. That's +20ft.

Jallorn
2010-06-15, 11:07 AM
Use activated then?

Same restriction.

Protecar
2010-06-15, 11:22 AM
Maug Rollers does seem better--but I don't like the idea of rolling around like Professor X or something--I'd get no respect! :smallyuk:

Also, I think that Scout won't stack if I have boots of Expeditious Retreat so I don't really need both of those. I'm not sure if I need Scout going into Dervish. Maybe dip Scout so I get the stacking from Dervish? So Barb 1/Scout 1/Dervish X/Blade Dancer 1--I might have to see about modifying this for 3.5 because that's pretty awesome boosts for a one level dip. Anyone know a mod for this class?

2xMachina
2010-06-15, 11:25 AM
Wealth is easier to get than lvls, so buy the item rather than take a lvl.

EDIT:

Same restriction.

Hmm, where did you find it? I can't seem to find it.

Jallorn
2010-06-15, 11:35 AM
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/magicItemsCreation.html

2xMachina
2010-06-15, 11:39 AM
I don't see the 'duration needed' thing though

Jallorn
2010-06-15, 11:42 AM
I don't see the 'duration needed' thing though

Second table.


2 If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

Which means 1 hour/level is x1.

True Strike doesn't have a duration in this sense.

Kaulesh
2010-06-15, 11:46 AM
The text for True Strike says it affects one attack taken before the end of your next turn. Therefore, isn't its duration one round? Sure, it's not in the spell's statblock, but doesn't text trump table?

It doesn't say that. It says "during your next attack." My bad.

Jallorn
2010-06-15, 11:48 AM
The text for True Strike says it affects one attack taken before the end of your next turn. Therefore, isn't its duration one round? Sure, it's not in the spell's statblock, but doesn't text trump table?

Except it can last longer. What if you don't take an attack until the next day?

Protecar
2010-06-15, 08:08 PM
Thanks for all the advice playground!

I think I'm going to end up with this as the tentative final for this:

Shadow Nezumi Barb 1/Scout 1/Blade Dancer 1/Ranger1/Dervish 10/Something else X with quick, run, spring attack, boots of expeditious retreat, fast leg graft, feathered wings graft.

For something like this:

40*1.5(60--75 if you think like I do that the fast leg graft should stack with shadows speed boost) + 30 boots + 10 quick + 10 barb + 30(or 40) blade dancer + 10 fast leg

140ft/round(145 if you think the shadow stacking with the graft sounds reasonable).

This comes with a 280 flight speed(average).

Any final suggestions or comments?

Edit: Could also dip Cloistered Cleric for another + 10 (150) and 300 flight.

Running I would be up to 750ft/6 seconds or about 85mph(or 75mph in D&D measurements).

eldon18
2010-06-15, 08:18 PM
hey i know this is off topic but i need help with my cleric i want to be able to persist wraithstrike but i cant figure out how

Cadian 9th
2010-06-15, 08:25 PM
I don't know If its been said, but the Freedom Mantle for Ardents, the Speed of Thought feat all give 10 ft insight and untyped bonuses. Also, the Quick Trait, and the dash feat. Fleet of Foot from Xendrik campaign world also gives untyped I think. Xeph race grants a bonus per day, as does burst and expeditous retreat (empowered :smallbiggrin:)

Dante

The Glyphstone
2010-06-15, 08:25 PM
hey i know this is off topic but i need help with my cleric i want to be able to persist wraithstrike but i cant figure out how

Then...make a thread for it, instead of hijacking someone else's?

I'm not sure how you're confused though. Wraithstrike is 2nd level, so you'd spend an 8th level spell slot to make it Persistent. You'd also get every book in reach at the table thrown at you by the DM, because this is Grade-AAA Cheese.

eldon18
2010-06-15, 09:21 PM
yes im a cleric and wraithstrike is arcane spell so how could i could i use and my DM is allowing me to do this

Protecar
2010-06-15, 10:01 PM
I don't know If its been said, but the Freedom Mantle for Ardents, the Speed of Thought feat all give 10 ft insight and untyped bonuses. Also, the Quick Trait, and the dash feat. Fleet of Foot from Xendrik campaign world also gives untyped I think. Xeph race grants a bonus per day, as does burst and expeditous retreat (empowered :smallbiggrin:)

Dante

Interesting thoughts that have been brought up--but the Mantle involves me indulging in psionics true? Not really something I'm looking into. Unless there's an easy step into it to compliment my build.

I am taking the quick trait though--the dash feat seems pretty insignificant in my build(I just don't have the feats for it). And I also like the Nezumi race.

I'm not familiar with Fleet of Foot though--is that a feat or class feature or...?

Thanks for the info though--they're pretty solid ideas!

Jallorn
2010-06-15, 10:08 PM
Interesting thoughts that have been brought up--but the Mantle involves me indulging in psionics true? Not really something I'm looking into. Unless there's an easy step into it to compliment my build.

I am taking the quick trait though--the dash feat seems pretty insignificant in my build(I just don't have the feats for it). And I also like the Nezumi race.

I'm not familiar with Fleet of Foot though--is that a feat or class feature or...?

Thanks for the info though--they're pretty solid ideas!

Ardent is a psionic base class.

You can get the mantle with 1 level dip, then feel free to ignore the rest of the class if you want.

Cadian 9th
2010-06-16, 01:22 AM
I am taking the quick trait though--the dash feat seems pretty insignificant in my build(I just don't have the feats for it). And I also like the Nezumi race.

I'm not familiar with Fleet of Foot though--is that a feat or class feature or...?

Thanks for the info though--they're pretty solid ideas!

Ditto above, and you're welcome. Fleet of Foot is from Player Guide to faerun, it's in the crystal keep feat index file, Its a feet granting +10 ft speed, 1st level only.

Dash is handy for core classes, as it puts you 1 square away from all those nasties. Really good for rogue/wizard/monk.

Dante

Endarire
2010-06-16, 01:28 AM
Hood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872838/Little_Red_Raiding_Hood_A_Tale_of_38_Guide_to_the_ 35_Dragoon) has some builds that break 100' land speed by level 20.

Blade Dancer1 (Oriental Adventures 37-38) DOUBLES your move speed while Blade Dancer10 TRIPLES it! Hard to go wrong with that!

ZeroNumerous
2010-06-16, 01:36 AM
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but Catfolk(girls) from RotW is a base 40ft. Downside is, I believe, an LA of +1.

Jallorn
2010-06-16, 01:38 AM
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but Catfolk(girls) from RotW is a base 40ft. Downside is, I believe, an LA of +1.

He already has a race with a base of 40 feet, and without the LA.

And yes, it was mentioned.

Protecar
2010-06-16, 09:31 AM
Wow, I thought I had exhausted my playing room for speed boosts and now there's more ideas for me to add! :smallbiggrin:

I looked up fleet of foot though and it said it only allows you to turn while running, not actually increase foot speed. :smallconfused:

I'm still debating on the Ardent dip--another 10ft would be nice, but it wouldn't really compliment anything else buildwise(no BAB or nifty melee tricks).

However, here's the rundown again:

40(Nezumi)*1.5 from Shadow(60) + 30 item of expeditious retreat + 10 quick + 10 barb + 40 blade dancer + 10 fast leg

160ft/round + 10 if dip Ardent for Freedom Mantle: 170
+10 if dip Cloistered Cleric for Celerity domain

This gives 160--180 base speed and 320-360(average) flight speed thanks to feathered wings graft.

Again: all the help has been very much appreciated! I'm very happy with how this has shaped out! :smallbiggrin:

Cadian 9th
2010-06-17, 08:04 PM
Wow, I thought I had exhausted my playing room for speed boosts and now there's more ideas for me to add! :smallbiggrin:

I looked up fleet of foot though and it said it only allows you to turn while running, not actually increase foot speed. :smallconfused:

I'm still debating on the Ardent dip--another 10ft would be nice, but it wouldn't really compliment anything else buildwise(no BAB or nifty melee tricks).


Fleet of Foot is from Players Guide to Faerun, you're thinking of the one from Complete Warrior. It only affects land movement so, with your wings, it's not worth it.

Ardent dip would be cool for just general Doing Something with your speed, i.e. actually being able to do something with your speed :smallbiggrin: /Dante

Jallorn
2010-06-17, 08:15 PM
If homebrew is allowed, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151910) class has some nice speed boosts.

Protecar
2010-06-17, 10:32 PM
Fleet of Foot is from Players Guide to Faerun, you're thinking of the one from Complete Warrior. It only affects land movement so, with your wings, it's not worth it.

Ardent dip would be cool for just general Doing Something with your speed, i.e. actually being able to do something with your speed :smallbiggrin: /Dante

?? How would an Ardent help utilize my speed?

@Jallorn: Thanks, I'll check it out. :smallbiggrin:

Cadian 9th
2010-06-17, 10:40 PM
just sayin' Ardent can be good at dealing damage and aura effects, as well as close range debuffs and wierd awsome. /Dante

Protecar
2010-06-17, 11:27 PM
just sayin' Ardent can be good at dealing damage and aura effects, as well as close range debuffs and wierd awsome. /Dante

Thanks. It sounds good. And honestly I'd love to play one--but this character is actually getting put into a game I'm running and his story is that his parents were consumed by a pretty much epic generational demonic pact. That leaves his parents dead(One is an Anuchu--a fox race, his father was a Nezumi, hence he is one).

And the curse has spread to him and he's doing everything possible to avoid the curse of being taken by the demon trying to chase him down. Hence the speed, the fiend grafts, and the shadow template. I want him to be powerful--but more in body than mind. He has high constitution and lots of stuff orienting him around speed.

In combat I think he'll be okay. He's level 9(11 with Shadow). That's about as high a level as I want to make him for the time being.

Mind you I'm not too familiar with Ardents, I just saw I'd lose BaB and was like "oh noes!" :smalleek:

I'm open to suggestions though. Thanks for the advice! I might have to look at the class more thoroughly sometime. :smallsmile: