Question regarding a found object (moral/ethical/whatever)

[Pocketa]

My school has closed of a certain sector that students walk through to get from one side to another. We have an open campus, and we're allowed to walk on the perimeter of the school to get to classes. This perimeter is used by the general public as well.

Walking along this path, I see something crumpled, on the ground. I pick it up. It's a Burberry scarf, in their signature "camel", cashmere. The Burberry tag (the one signifying it is indeed Burberry) is still on it. There are two small holes in the scarf.

I went home and looked it up.

http://us.burberry.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3926928&cp=3769621&parentPage=family

It's a $335 scarf.

If I turn it into Lost and Found, it might not get claimed, and then it will be sent to Goodwill. Plus, L+F has a very lax policy, letting students basically pick clothing they like out without verification of ownership.

It also might not have been dropped by a student at my high school. Seeing as it's that expensive, it's not likely that a kid at my school had bought it or worn it, etc. It smells like expensive perfume. Most people at my school go to thrift stores or Urban Outfitters, and nobody wears perfume (legit), so it's not likely that it belongs to a high school kid.

What should I do with the scarf? I really really like it, and it's going to be impossible to figure out who it belongs to. Is it okay if I keep it?

If there are posters that go up around school about it, I will return it to the owner, btw. I won't be wearing it around school seeing as it's basically summer, and I won't be giving it back to anyone that just claims it is theirs without properly identifying it (color, holes, etc.).

Is this an okay plan?

[mucat]

Put up fliers of your own near where you found it, and a few more on the campus. Put one by the lost-and-found, so anyone who checks there will see it. And maybe a Craig's List ad.

In all of these, just say that you found a nice piece of clothing, and ask the owner to call/email you and describe it. If no one does, then it's yours.

[arguskos]

Is this an okay plan?
Given lack of other real options, personally, I say yes. I feel bad for whomever lost it, since Burberry makes very nice things, but since it's that or give it to the apparently very lax Lost and Found and hope the right owner gets it back, I see no objections.

Perhaps, one might argue that you should post signs saying you found it, and offering to return it to anyone who can correctly identify it and give an email address that you have routed into your private one. That might be the best option.

[Runestar]

Get rid of it.

I wouldn't keep something which I know does not belong to me.

[Fay Graydon]

Burn it!
Fiyah Must Clense that which is Worshipped by Chavs! :smallbiggrin:
Nah hand it in to someone at college or to the police

[Pocketa]

Put up fliers of your own near where you found it, and a few more on the campus. Put one by the lost-and-found, so anyone who checks there will see it. And maybe a Craig's List ad.

In all of these, just say that you found a nice piece of clothing, and ask the owner to call/email you and describe it. If no one does, then it's yours.

The thing is, I have no burning desire to return something to somebody, especially if it involves my time and energy to make posters. Posters are an ineffective means of communication at my school, and for reference, it is a high school.

[Syka]

Ever since Busch Gardens claimed no camcorder had been dropped off recently the day after we turned in a lost one, our policy is to give or number to the appropriate authorities (lost and found, police, etc), give them our number, and have any callers identify the item.

Minimal effort, you know it is in good hands, and you are more likely to be able to keep it if it isn't claimed.

[Sneak]

The amount of effort you would have to expend to try to get it back to its owner coupled with the fact that there exists no effective way to verify ownership legitimizes a finders keepers mentality.

Keep it.

[Pocketa]

The problem with school Lost and Found:

I found a jacket once. It had the name inside and everything. I took it to Lost and Found and asked them to call her in so she could get it from them. They said it wasn't their job. I had to go on Facebook, get her number, call her, and go on a wild goose chase just to be told it was okay if I kept it.

Multi-hundred dollar Abercrombie and Fitch winter jacket, for context.

[Erloas]

Given the difficulty in finding the rightful owner of something like that, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

And chances are that anyone who can afford to spend $335 on a scarf is also someone that isn't going to go through a lot of effort to get it back. A scarf simply isn't the sort of item that someone is going to spend enough money on to worry about, so chances are no matter how much it costs, its not really that personally valuable for that person to look for.

The other, probably more likely scenario given that it still had the tags on it, is some kid(s) decided to shoplift somewhere and go worried and tossed it. If there is a store that sells them close by you could see if someone stole it from them. Or if the person was going to look for the lost item they would probably return to the place they purchased it first to make sure they even got out of the store with it.

[Copacetic]

I would say keep it. The lost and found box sounds more like a "free stuff" box then anything else. But up a few posters if you feel bad about it, but eh.

[Lev]

Personally I'd sell it and give the money to charity, no way am I letting some brat get ahold of their gimmick scarf while people die because of it.

[Worira]

Man, I love giving other people's money to charity.

[Tirian]

I would go to L&F after a few days and ask if anyone had been looking for a lost scarf. If so, I would then put out some effort in putting up a poster or two to reunite them, otherwise I would assume that it was a lost cause.

Alternatively (or better yet, in addition), you could overtly wear the scarf for a few days and see if someone on campus excitedly shrieks and points and says "OMG my scarf!!," which is behavior you would only expect from someone who had lost a valuable scarf.

[Copacetic]

Personally I'd sell it and give the money to charity, no way am I letting some brat get ahold of their gimmick scarf while people die because of it.

Yeah, It's definitely their fault children die of hunger because they got a nice scarf. I mean, who do they think they are, shelling out for a scarf like that? :smallannoyed:

[sktarq]

Personally I'd sell it and give the money to charity, no way am I letting some brat get ahold of their gimmick scarf while people die because of it.

I thought We are trying to avoid work in this solution...
I'd just keep the fluffy thing. Also who wears a scarf in June?

[Lev]

Yeah, It's definitely their fault children die of hunger because they got a nice scarf. I mean, who do they think they are, shelling out for a scarf like that? :smallannoyed:
Then buy them a $40 scarf and donate the rest, my scarf cost $40 and it's the nicest piece of fabric I've ever seen... these are scarves we are talking about... a rectangle of fabric.

I don't even wear my scarf 90% of the time, because my coat has a neck bracing that flips up so whenever it's cold enough for a scarf I wear my coat then don't need it-- I mostly carry it around in my backpack when it's cold incase someone else needs it, for neck or hands or whathaveyou.

[Copacetic]

Then buy them a $40 scarf and donate the rest, my scarf cost $40 and it's the nicest piece of fabric I've ever seen... these are scarves we are talking about... a rectangle of fabric.

I don't even wear my scarf 90% of the time, because my coat has a neck bracing that flips up so whenever it's cold enough for a scarf I wear my coat then don't need it-- I mostly carry it around in my backpack when it's cold incase someone else needs it, for neck or hands or whathaveyou.

Why spend even $40? There are people dying, after all.Go without a scarf, like aforementioned dying people.

[Runestar]

Personally I'd sell it and give the money to charity, no way am I letting some brat get ahold of their gimmick scarf while people die because of it.

By that logic, we should be donating our entire paychecks to charity, barring setting aside the bare minimum for food and bills. Heck, we shouldn't even be buying dnd splatbooks because the cost of each book could easily feed a family in some 3rd world country for a month! :smalltongue:

[Arakune]

Keep it? At this point is improbable they will return for it, and even if they did it's difficult to prove they own it.

At best say that you found some scarf at the lost and founds and ask them to let you know if someone lost it. Keep for a few days and call it yours later. If anything, share the info that you found it and even if the owner comes back and have means to demand it back he can't call you a thief.

[Lev]

By that logic, we should be donating our entire paychecks to charity, barring setting aside the bare minimum for food and bills. Heck, we shouldn't even be buying dnd splatbooks because the cost of each book could easily feed a family in some 3rd world country for a month! :smalltongue:
There's a certain balance that needs to be kept in moderation, I'd like that but it would cause an economic crash.
And you caught me, I've only ever payed for the core books, and I gave those away to my mentor's son.

But yes, you can choose where your money goes, the DnD splatbook point is interesting since a PDF isn't technically real and therefore kind of goes into a gray zone when it comes to pirating, but IMHO WotC seems to be doing alright without my business.

Well, off to spend $15 for a story telling event in a zen buddhist garden that starts in an hour.

People gotta live, people don't need $350 scarves, don't need 15 wisdom to get that.

[The Succubus]

Local lost properties, be they schools, hospitals, etc tend to be notoriously light fingered. Turning it in to the police will give you peace of mind in that they *will* ask for verification and usually have a 30-day unclaimed policy, whereby it is returned tot the kind person that handed it in.

Trying to claim it as your can lead to a whole world of trouble - just ask Gizmodo about how they obtained a top secret iPhone prototype and why their lead editor is potentially facing jail.

[Seffbasilisk]

I'd say keep it with your plan. It's sound, you give them adequate time to make it known if it is trés important, and if not, well. Enjoy your new scarf! I've heard cashmere is zer comfy.

[Tirian]

Why spend even $40? There are people dying, after all.Go without a scarf, like aforementioned dying people.

Everyone is dying people.

Frankly, I don't think that the excessive value of the scarf is a reason to dump on the original owner or feel her worthy of punishment. If anything, it would make me more eager to find her before she spent hundreds more dollars replacing it, you know?

[jlvm4]

Ever since Busch Gardens claimed no camcorder had been dropped off recently the day after we turned in a lost one, our policy is to give or number to the appropriate authorities (lost and found, police, etc), give them our number, and have any callers identify the item.

Minimal effort, you know it is in good hands, and you are more likely to be able to keep it if it isn't claimed.

I like this idea. Or bring it to the office, rather than the lost and found. I got something back to its original owner (the principal of the local middle school about two miles away--she was visiting our school) that way. This all assumes they are willing to participate. But even if not, an attempt should be made.

If you make a good faith effort to return it, and no one claims it, then I would consider it truly lost and able to be kept. But only then. Put the shoe on the other foot. If it was your scarf (subsitute cared-for personal items as needed), would you want someone to make an effort to get it back to you, should you look for it.

The cost, owner, etc are irrelevant. The item does not belong to you. I don't think I would feel at all comfortable 'just keeping' it. It would be too much like stealing for me.

[Pocketa]

The thing is, the scarf was found near school property, in the street, rather than near an actual building, etc. It could have been lost by anyone. There are no school facilities that will adeptly handle the Lost and Found process, seeing as our Lost and Found is, as somebody else put it rather aptly, a "free box".

It's not that I want to keep it, it's that I don't see a good way of giving it back. Anybody could claim it, and asking for a description is ridiculous. It's camel, like pretty much everything Burberry, from their scarves to their swimsuits. Plus, end of school, routes get changed due to a different finals schedule, and the fact students are not allowed to post posters anywhere, and in the places they're postable, they're taken down by other students or covered with bigger posters.

EDIT: Also, everything, regardless of what it is, is sent to the L+F, no exceptions. It's just that usually things that aren't worth much to anyone but the individual are sent there, because most people at my school don't lose stuff. I am not giving it to anyone else, it's not school policy, the last thing I need is more work for myself.

Also, I did check Craigslist. No results.

[Worira]

Local lost properties, be they schools, hospitals, etc tend to be notoriously light fingered. Turning it in to the police will give you peace of mind in that they *will* ask for verification and usually have a 30-day unclaimed policy, whereby it is returned tot the kind person that handed it in.

Trying to claim it as your can lead to a whole world of trouble - just ask Gizmodo about how they obtained a top secret iPhone prototype and why their lead editor is potentially facing jail.

This. Honestly, you seem to be trying just a little too hard to come up with reasons not to return it.

[Yarram]

Meh. Just inquire at the office of your school if anyones lost their scarf. If not, it's yours now. Go to it and good luck.

On the other hand, I hate owning anything that I didn't buy or earn. I'd just give it in to the L&F and never think about it again. But then again, I'm pretty anti-materialism in the first place.


This. Honestly, you seem to be trying just a little too hard to come up with reasons not to return it.
On the other-hand, the amount of effort required to actually do so... Especially when it's not really your prerogative to look after other peoples belongings. But on the other hand, neither is it to take advantage of other peoples misfortune.

[Kobold-Bard]

I'd have no issue with keeping it, if they were wearing a ~£300 scarf and didn't notice they'd lost it then that's their problem. Finder-keepers/losers-weepers unless they find you, then you give it back or it's stealing.

Of course this is just me and if I found it it'd be on ebay within the hour, so feel free to ignore my lack of morals.

[Nefarion Xid]

... how does one lose a scarf in June anyway? This is kind of the lost-and-found equivalent of a Darwin Award.

[J.Gellert]

I'd say "keep it", but I suspect you came in this topic asking for justification in order to quell your conscience telling you otherwise, so I won't say it :smallbiggrin:

Although I did kind of say it already.

[Brother Oni]

If you're worried about your school's lost and found being unreliable, just hand it in to the police.

Minimal effort on your part and if the owner really cares about their lost scarf, they should ask there as well. If it's been dropped from someone's shoplifting spree, then it's also with the correct authorities.

[Jack Squat]

I don't see a reason that you need to turn it in to anybody. If someone can't keep track of their $300 scrap of fabric it's their own fault. My policy has always been that if there's any way I can identify who lost an item (I see them drop it, their name/address is somewhere on the item, they put up posters, etc.) then I'll return it, otherwise I'll keep it.

There's no sense in doing all the legwork for somebody else's problems.

[kusje]

Personally I'd sell it and give the money to charity, no way am I letting some brat get ahold of their gimmick scarf while people die because of it.

It is their money to be spent as they please so how is it your concern?

[Copacetic]

Everyone is dying people.


Point.

Again, from what I can gather, it's still probably the best choice that you keep it.

[Lev]

It is their money to be spent as they please so how is it your concern?
When life gives you scarves, you make 3rdworld-aid.

[Eloi]

Sell it on eBay and hope the original owner finds it, if not, hey $300 bucks.

[Pocketa]

Meh. Just inquire at the office of your school if anyones lost their scarf. If not, it's yours now. Go to it and good luck.

On the other hand, I hate owning anything that I didn't buy or earn. I'd just give it in to the L&F and never think about it again. But then again, I'm pretty anti-materialism in the first place.


On the other-hand, the amount of effort required to actually do so... Especially when it's not really your prerogative to look after other peoples belongings. But on the other hand, neither is it to take advantage of other peoples misfortune.


This. Honestly, you seem to be trying just a little too hard to come up with reasons not to return it.



First...


I live in a town of 170,000 people, not counting people from other parts of the metropolitan area known as the Bay Area.
My school alone has about 4,000 people, staff and students.
It wasn't found on my school's property, per say, and my school is not conducive to taking care of other people's problems. Leaving it in Lost and Found means it will just be taken by somebody else. Next week is the week they leave all the lost things out for people to take before they are sent to Goodwill.
The person who dropped it was wearing the perfume known as "Romance Always Yours", retailing for $225, from Sephora.
Everybody in my area uses craigslist to report lost things. It has not been recorded.
It was lying on the ground for a while.


And regarding, "How would I feel if it happened to me"? I wouldn't care. I've lost things before, mostly gloves, and so I never buy expensive gloves. Everything of worth that I have contains a label with my name and contact information on it. It means changing my phone number is a real hassle but hey. I've had many, many things returned to me that way. Well, out of the things I've lost that are of worth.

[snoopy13a]

I wouldn't turn it into the school's lost and found because it might not have been lost by a student.

You may have a legal duty to turn the scarf to the police. While under common law a finder of lost property has valid claim against all but the true owner (person who lost it) some states have laws governing finding lost property. For example, in New York, if one finds lost property over $20, they must turn it over to the police. I don't know what California law is on the subject so I don't know if you have a legal obligation or not.

[Pocketa]

The thing is, the more I examine the scarf, the less legit it looks. It might be a counterfeit seeing as the pattern and edging are different from the scarf I linked. Pattern is repeated more on my scarf than the web one. It could be a seasonal thing, but the tag doesn't say Burberry, it says "Burberry's", also, "Made in England" vs. "Made in Scotland", bring down its value to less than a hundred dollars which is the amount it would have to be for me to have to bring it into the police.

Also, don't forget. I'm a minor, my police department is very busy, and I don't want more trouble for myself. Nobody has posted anything on Craigslist or online about any lost scarves at all.

[Copacetic]

When life gives you scarves, you make 3rdworld-aid.

So, instead of treating themselves to something nice they might've worked weeks for because they really like, they should donate to a charity with no real assurance it'll help?

I do not understand.

[Mando Knight]

When life gives you scarves, you make 3rdworld-aid.

Oh. OK. *Grabs Kenya and a juicer*

...
...
...
...No, wait, this doesn't seem to be working right.

[Silly Wizard]

I have a scarf that looks exactly like that (sans Burberry identification), but it cost me $10.

Anyways, don't bother turning it in. When someone loses something so carelessly that is wrapped around their neck, less than four inches from their face, and not notice obviously doesn't care too much about it. Either that or won't even notice it's gone.

[Pocketa]

Turns out it's genuine.

Friend who loves Burberry checked it out.
The tag just meant it was a premium scarf.

[Worira]

I really would recommend giving it to the police. It's not going to put a strain on their resources, as they'll most likely have a specific portion of the force who's main job is to deal with exactly this sort of situation. Don't worry about getting into trouble, either: returning lost or stolen goods isn't typically a sign of a hardened criminal. And if the owner really doesn't care about the scarf, chances are you'll be able to claim it back if it's not claimed by a certain period of time.

[thubby]

i would be inclined not to keep it, if only to avoid influencing my efforts to return it.

if you really wanted to go all out, there's probably only 1 or 2 stores that sell it in the area, and I seriously doubt it was paid for in cash. they may have some way of contacting the buyer.

[Pocketa]

Burberry is sold in a ton of luxury stores though.

Outlets:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=OrI&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=burberry+berkeley&fb=1&gl=us&hq=burberry&hnear=Berkeley,+CA&view=text&ei=ikEUTILKMuXunQeR09zrDQ&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQtQMwAA

Nordstrom's:

http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/2987060?Category=&Search=True&SearchType=keywordsearch&keyword=burberry+scarf&origin=searchresults

Macy's.

Etc.

Also, online, seeing as it's an overseas company.

Also, the scarf is a popular item.
It's in the most popular print.

It could have been anyone's.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I do want to point out that people buying $350 scarves can most likely afford to lose them. Why? Well, a person buying brand name stuff they can barely afford would most likely stick to very visible things that are also worn much more often than a scarf. Things like shirts, jackets or belts. Less affluent people who buy expensive clothing are more likely to do it so they can be seen wearing it, not because it's that much better in quality (hey, when it comes to fashion, price rises geometrically but quality only rises arithmetically... I just made this sentence up, but tell me it isn't true... :smallamused:).

A scarf isn't something you wear too often, therefore you have to be fairly rich to buy one that expensive, since when you're rich and you buy expensive clothing, it could just as easily be out of habit (i.e. you simply go to Holt Renfrew when you need to buy something instead of American Eagle).

As for the actual question... Keep it. If a person who lost it hasn't done much legwork to recover the scarf (such as posting an ad on Craigslist), chances are it's not something terribly important to them. And keeping in mind what I wrote above, it probably isn't.

PS: I've always subscribed to finders keepers unless the owner actually tries to recover the item. Even though I lose an order of magnitude more stuff than I find (lemme see... two graphing calculators, my dad's Parker pen, 16 umbrellas since I started keeping count 5 years ago, an Armani Exchange jacket, a bunch of normal jackets when I was a kid, my old RAZR v3t (I actually got it back.. a month later... after it accidentally made its way to my buddy who recognized the break pattern on the front display and a few dents that he put in it), a backpack back in high school with 1 textbook and all of my pens&pencils (I had a lot))...

Found? 1 graphing calculator (and even that... it was in lost and found in a cafe I worked at for the better part of three months, until I finally decided to keep it since no-one else wanted) and an iPhone 3G with a shattered display (it's in perfect working condition despite the fact that the screen looks like it got run over by a bike... about 20 times... and can be used if jailbroken). Had no contacts, no memos and the sim card wouldn't work so I had no way to return it to anyone. The downside? I already have an iPhone and mine doesn't have a broken screen (Yet, knowing my luck).

[Lev]

So, instead of treating themselves to something nice they might've worked weeks for because they really like, they should donate to a charity with no real assurance it'll help?

I do not understand.
Well, you do have a point. Overpopulation is a growing problem, letting people die horribly is starting to make more and more sense in the big picture.

How about you donate the money directly to your government, or a drive to improve the living quality of you locally? That divides the wealth evenly, maybe not to the people who really need it, but screw them?

What I'm saying is that when life drops that in your lap, balls in your court.

[Ravens_cry]

Give it to the police. If it is claimed, fine. It was either the person who owned it previously, or some person who decides to steal a lost item from the cops. That's their conscience.
Whatever, it's out of your hands.
And if it isn't claimed, great ,you get to keep it. Nice.
But I am not going to give you a rationalization to keep a lost item without making an attempt to return it to its rightful owner. Maybe they won't miss it. Maybe they will. It doesn't matter either way. It's not yours, not yet anyway.
Doing the right thing, even when it is hard, is still the right thing.

[J.Gellert]

Burberry is sold in a ton of luxury stores though.

Outlets:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=OrI&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=burberry+berkeley&fb=1&gl=us&hq=burberry&hnear=Berkeley,+CA&view=text&ei=ikEUTILKMuXunQeR09zrDQ&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQtQMwAA

Nordstrom's:

http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/2987060?Category=&Search=True&SearchType=keywordsearch&keyword=burberry+scarf&origin=searchresults

Macy's.

Etc.

Also, online, seeing as it's an overseas company.

Also, the scarf is a popular item.
It's in the most popular print.

It could have been anyone's.

Alright, you are officially spending too much time worrying over it.

It's a scarf. Life goes on. So forget about it.

I hope it looks good on you :smallsmile:

[Eloi]

Alright, you are officially spending too much time worrying over it.

It's a scarf. Life goes on. So forget about it.

I hope it looks good on you :smallsmile:

Quoted for emphasis.

Alternatively, if it is an expensive scarf after all, you could sell it, neh?

[The Succubus]

Well, I think I have a compromise for you.

Keep the scarf for now. Should you ever decide to sell it, donate some of the money to charity. Or when you get tired of it, drop the scarf on the ground and let someone else have some good fortune and an ethical dilema.

[Brother Oni]

Also, don't forget. I'm a minor, my police department is very busy, and I don't want more trouble for myself.

If you turned up at your local police station to hand over lost property and they turn you away saying "Sorry miss, we're too busy to take it", then you should be more concerned with the state of your police force than a lost scarf.

As others have said, it's highly unlikely that they will suspect you of stealing it if you turn it in, with an explanation of where you found it.

If you really can't be bothered with it anymore, stick it in the bin. That way, you can't be accused of stealing and/or benefiting from lost or stolen property.

[Nave Senrag]

Well, you do have a point. Overpopulation is a growing problem, letting people die horribly is starting to make more and more sense in the big picture.

How about you donate the money directly to your government, or a drive to improve the living quality of you locally? That divides the wealth evenly, maybe not to the people who really need it, but screw them?

What I'm saying is that when life drops that in your lap, balls in your court.

Please, when you aren't starving, the ball is always "in your court" in the sense that you can always give something to someone else. You for instance could give up internet or your computer to help someone else eat rather than telling everyone else to.

And another thing, I would like to know how you can tell someone how important it is to donate to help those who need it in one breath, and then say "screw them" in another

[kusje]

Please, when you aren't starving, the ball is always "in your court" in the sense that you can always give something to someone else. You for instance could give up internet or your computer to help someone else eat rather than telling everyone else to.

And another thing, I would like to know how you can tell someone how important it is to donate to help those who need it in one breath, and then say "screw them" in another

I thought it was pretty obvious that he was trolling because he's jealous of people who can afford expensive branded goods.

If he were serious, he wouldn't be on the internet complaining about others in his free time. There are plenty of people that need help so he should be out helping them or working part-time so he can donate the proceeds to them.

[Zanaril]

This is why people should put nametags in their clothes.

Especially if part of those clothes is a $335 scarf.

[onthetown]

I do want to point out that people buying $350 scarves can most likely afford to lose them. Why? Well, a person buying brand name stuff they can barely afford would most likely stick to very visible things that are also worn much more often than a scarf. Things like shirts, jackets or belts. Less affluent people who buy expensive clothing are more likely to do it so they can be seen wearing it, not because it's that much better in quality (hey, when it comes to fashion, price rises geometrically but quality only rises arithmetically... I just made this sentence up, but tell me it isn't true... :smallamused:).

Not necessarily. Some people save up their entire paychecks just to have one nice item, or relatives will give it to them as a gift. I have a beautiful $700 violin that I honestly could not afford otherwise because it was a gift from my father... But, by your logic, all of my instruments should be in the $700 range because I should routinely have enough money left over from my paychecks to buy such things. Yeah... no. A person who bought an expensive scarf might have saved up for ages for it or received it as a gift. It may not be worn often, but they might have just liked it and wanted it.

If you have no burning desire to work to return what was essentially somebody's paycheck or a gift to them, and you wouldn't care if it happened to you, then you obviously have no intention of returning it anyway. I really don't see how any of our suggestions could move you to do anything by what you said... And if you still have no burning desire to return it after two pages, the discussion of what to do is kind of moot.

Either way:

Least amount of work: Wear it around school for a bit and see if anybody notices.

Other: Put an ad out on the radio about it. Drop it off at the police station (they won't fault you for finding something, even if you're a minor, and they probably have their own, legit lost and found box that they'll throw it in with no work added to them). This is, technically, less work than making and printing out posters. Avoid the school lost and found, because a scarf like that should be in better hands. :smalltongue:

Also, women wear scarves all through summer as a fashion accessory. They're very light. You couldn't wear those types of scarves in the winter.

If you did the radio thing or wore it around school and you still haven't found the owner after a few months, then you can keep it or give it to charity or sell it on eBay because you did try. That doesn't take away from the fact that it's somebody else's property, but you did the best you could with what you had and there's no point going completely out of your way for a nice piece of clothing -- nobody really expects you to except for the lawful good paladins of the modern world. Most people would assume you would just keep it for yourself, especially if you're only in high school. The thing is, we can only do as much as we can with what we have.

All in all, though, it's probably better if you give it to the police (generally safe) and put out an ad for it on the radio, saying that you can pick it up there. You're obviously concerned enough about what to do to post here, so it should take some weight off of your conscience instead of just keeping it right off the bat. Some police stations have a policy where, if it isn't claimed in x amount of time, the person who found it can pick it back up and keep it.

Giving it to charity might blow up in your face if it's placed in a charity auction and the owner has to bid for it, but that's one of those crazy stories you can tell your friends later.

I'm just concerned because that's a really freakin' nice scarf. :smallbiggrin:

[Moff Chumley]

The amount of effort you would have to expend to try to get it back to its owner coupled with the fact that there exists no effective way to verify ownership legitimizes a finders keepers mentality.

Keep it.

As per usual, I'm going to go with Sneak on this one...


Man, I love giving other people's money to charity.

Good times... :smallbiggrin:


I thought We are trying to avoid work in this solution...
I'd just keep the fluffy thing. Also who wears a scarf in June?

Bay Area people? :smallamused:


Oh. OK. *Grabs Kenya and a juicer*

...
...
...
...No, wait, this doesn't seem to be working right.

I love you.


Alternatively, if it is an expensive scarf after all, you could sell it, neh?

Eh.

Someone had to respond. Can't let an Ender's Game reference go unacknowledged...

[Copacetic]

Well, you do have a point. Overpopulation is a growing problem, letting people die horribly is starting to make more and more sense in the big picture.

How about you donate the money directly to your government, or a drive to improve the living quality of you locally? That divides the wealth evenly, maybe not to the people who really need it, but screw them?

What I'm saying is that when life drops that in your lap, balls in your court.

And what I am saying is that people have a right to do what they want with the money they earned. Believe me when I say I know exactly how bad third world countries can be, but this does not mean that one is never allowed to purchase something nice for themselves until world poverty is solved.


And onthetown, what kind of violin? I am very curious.

[Worira]

The amount of effort it takes to go down to the police office and hand it in is negligible, and they do determine ownership. I agree that doing things like visiting individual stores would be excessive, but that doesn't mean Pocketa should just keep it, either.

[Wardog]

I'm slightly disturbed by the number of people who are basically taking the view of "Lol - if you're so stupid that you lost an expensive scarf, you deserve to lose it".


I'd say:

If your school has an intranet, or a physical bullitin board in the main entrance (or some other area where almost everyone goes), then post a message saying something like:

"Found: Scarf. If you have lost one, tell me the description, and if its this one, I'll let you have it".

(Or alternatively, put it up at the place you found the scarf).

That doesn't take much effort, and it should mean only people who lost it will get it (if they respond).

If that's not feasible, or no-one responds, hand it in to the police.

If the police don't want it, or no-one responds after a reasonable amount of time, then I don't see anything wrong with keeping it. (Or if you would be uncomfortable with that, give it to a charity shop, or something).

[Moff Chumley]

I think that we're running into a regional thing here... the Bay Area is simultaneously one of the wealthiest and most impoverished areas in America. Since I doubt that scarf belongs to the latter, it probably belonged to some fantastically rich woman with eight more identical scarves... if not, and they made an effort to look for it, that's one thing. However, it's odds on that the person who lost it has long since replaced it.

[Worira]

Then she won't be claiming it from the police, and Pocketa will have the scarf, legally and with a clear conscience.

[kusje]

Clear conscience? I think not. It doesn't belong to her; it doesn't matter if the owner can afford 10000 of them and it also doesn't matter if she has replaced it.

My advice is to dump it in the lost and found. You'd have done your part and if else someone steals it, it isn't your fault. If you want your own expensive scarf then go work for it.

Wearing it around to attract the owner's attention is a bad idea because the owner will probably take you for a thief and you'd have a hard time proving otherwise. I'm vindictive enough to report you for theft or just mock you for wearing my old crap and I'd let everyone know about it.

[Eloi]

I'm vindictive enough to report you for theft or just mock you for wearing my old crap and I'd let everyone know about it.

Over a scarf? Don't you think you'd be overreacting a little?

[Worira]

Clear conscience? I think not. It doesn't belong to her; it doesn't matter if the owner can afford 10000 of them and it also doesn't matter if she has replaced it.


I think you may have missed my point there.

[Serpentine]

Wow, this has turned out to be a contentious issue o.O

My 2c: Scribble up 2 or 3 posters with "Scarf found, contact XXXXXXXXXX". Put one near where you found it, one near the lost and found, and maybe give one to the police. Consider it yours until contact indicates otherwise.
Minimal effort; if the owner's hanging around they'll probably spot one of the posters; if not, score! guilt-free and all.

[Pocketa]

Wow, this has turned out to be a contentious issue o.O

My 2c: Scribble up 2 or 3 posters with "Scarf found, contact XXXXXXXXXX". Put one near where you found it, one near the lost and found, and maybe give one to the police. Consider it yours until contact indicates otherwise.
Minimal effort; if the owner's hanging around they'll probably spot one of the posters; if not, score! guilt-free and all.

This.

But...

Posters are only allowed to be hung in designated areas at my school. They're really strict about this. I'll put up one by the front office, because if somebody lost it that wasn't from the school, the most likely situation, they would be sent to the front office anyways. And the front office has its own bulletin board, rather sparse.

If I am not contacted, it's mine.

Oh, and I'm obviously not going to wear it around school. I'll get it dry cleaned in a week or so if it is unclaimed. And I will expect the owner to compensate me for that expense if they claim it. If not, whatevs, but it would be a nice gesture on their part.


EDIT: I posted a Craigslist ad about it. I won't post the link but it basically says I found a scarf, no name, brand name, whoever can describe it can have it if I believe that they are the owner.

I don't think I have to make any other sort of notice. It costs money to place an ad and I don't think I need to waste the time or money to get it back to the owner sheerly due to their irresponsibility, which, when the issue gets down to it, is what it is. Irresponsible.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Not necessarily. Some people save up their entire paychecks just to have one nice item, or relatives will give it to them as a gift. I have a beautiful $700 violin that I honestly could not afford otherwise because it was a gift from my father... But, by your logic, all of my instruments should be in the $700 range because I should routinely have enough money left over from my paychecks to buy such things. Yeah... no. A person who bought an expensive scarf might have saved up for ages for it or received it as a gift. It may not be worn often, but they might have just liked it and wanted it.
No, see... A scarf is closer to buying a $700 case for a violin. Sure, it may be a nice case, but more likely than not, you wouldn't buy one if you couldn't afford to since a case doesn't help you play music in any way. And in any case, we're talking about clothing. A violin is something that will not only last you a lifetime after you buy it, but also something that you need. Clothing... it's something that you wear for a few seasons and you throw out.

It's just like buying a car - there's nothing wrong with a rich guy buying a Porsche. However, when a guy who bought it lives in a dump, still has student loans and can barely make payments for the car, chances are, he only did it to show off, since a Kia would do just as well for getting around and a souped up Japanese ricer would do just as well for street racing.

And a scarf isn't something you can show off very much since 1. you can't wear it year round and 2. most people won't recognize that it's a very nice designer one and won't see the difference between it and a $30 scarf with a similar pattern from CK or somesuch. Except those people who routinely buy clothing in the $300-700 range, but they'll be able to tell you're showing off anyway because your socks are wrong or your shirt is from last season.

[Worira]

Again, police. Why do you keep ignoring this option?

[Nevitan]

Personally I would probably just keep it.
Well I would have just left it there in the first place actually, as I'm not that interested in scarves and I would be worried about how clean a piece of clothing found on the ground is. However, if I were to have taken it and looked up it's monetary value I would probably keep it.

[Thajocoth]

I think you're looking a gift horse in the mouth. It's your scarf now, unless someone else claims it... So keep it and wear it.

[Worira]

The term "gift horse" refers to an item that is, in fact, a gift. Not exactly the most applicable saying here.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Again, police. Why do you keep ignoring this option?
Frankly, police have better things to do, especially in a place like SF Bay Area than try to track down the owner of a scarf. Such as, y'know, arresting crooks.

[Worira]

And they typically have an office dedicated to exactly this. It's not like they'll be pulling officers off a homicide investigation for this.

[Xyk]

I'm forced to ask what the hell is wrong with all you "keep it" types. This is something someone paid very much for or was given to them as a very nice gift. Go to the police. They have someone specifically paid to track down owners of expensive items.

[Dr.Epic]

Keep on to it until someone puts up posters or you hear something.

[SDF]

300+ for a scarf? Pfft I'd keep it for the karmic lesson it would give. Though, I doubt they would care that much if they can not only afford $300 for a scarf, but can afford to be careless with a $300 scarf.

On second thought forget keeping it. Hock it and donate the money to charity. :smallamused:

[Thajocoth]

The term "gift horse" refers to an item that is, in fact, a gift. Not exactly the most applicable saying here.

It's a gift of circumstance. The universe gave her an expensive scarf.

More specifically than a gift, the term "gift horse" is a reference to a large wooden horse that was full of Greek soldiers. Looking it in the mouth would've actually been a good idea for the Trojans...

[Worira]

No, it isn't. It's a reference to checking the teeth of horses to determine the age. It has nothing to do with the Trojan horse.

And no, finding something doesn't make it a gift from the universe.

[onthetown]

No, see... A scarf is closer to buying a $700 case for a violin. Sure, it may be a nice case, but more likely than not, you wouldn't buy one if you couldn't afford to since a case doesn't help you play music in any way. And in any case, we're talking about clothing. A violin is something that will not only last you a lifetime after you buy it, but also something that you need. Clothing... it's something that you wear for a few seasons and you throw out.

It's just like buying a car - there's nothing wrong with a rich guy buying a Porsche. However, when a guy who bought it lives in a dump, still has student loans and can barely make payments for the car, chances are, he only did it to show off, since a Kia would do just as well for getting around and a souped up Japanese ricer would do just as well for street racing.

And a scarf isn't something you can show off very much since 1. you can't wear it year round and 2. most people won't recognize that it's a very nice designer one and won't see the difference between it and a $30 scarf with a similar pattern from CK or somesuch. Except those people who routinely buy clothing in the $300-700 range, but they'll be able to tell you're showing off anyway because your socks are wrong or your shirt is from last season.

But why is it so hard to believe that:

A) if a rich person did buy it, they bought it because they genuinely liked it -- not because they like buying rich things.

B) if a poorer person bought it, they bought it because they genuinely liked it and not because they wanted to show off.

C) it was a gift and might have some emotional value to the person.

I know it's a scarf, but I've had accessories that have lasted me for years and I still like wearing them with outfits.

[raitalin]

More specifically than a gift, the term "gift horse" is a reference to a large wooden horse that was full of Greek soldiers. Looking it in the mouth would've actually been a good idea for the Trojans...

I'm....not too sure about that. It seems more likely that the saying refers to the practice of checking a horse's mouth for its age and possible disease when considering purchase. The saying infers that you should not check a horse that is given to you because a diseased free horse is still a free horse. Best just to use it until it dies.

EDIT: Swordsage'd!

[The Succubus]

:miko: I fail to see any way as to how she can morally justify ownership of the scarf. She should hand the item in to her local law authorities, who, with the guidance of the Twelve Gods or a suitable scrying spell, will return the item to its rightful owner. Failure to do so will result in her becoming nothing more than an agent of Evil and therefore suitable for execution. SLASHSLASHSLASHSLASH!

[Eloi]

:xykon: Keep it, and perhaps use it to kill the original owner once you track them down so no one would dispute you. Hilarious, I'll be watching it on Teevo.

[Trog]

Turn it in to the lost and found. Put up a notice on Craig's List saying what it is, where you found it and where you have put it.

There. You are done with it.

You clearly want to keep this scarf judging by all the checking into it, verifying its authenticity, the already formed plan of dry cleaning it for your later use, and all the excuses of why not to just do the very obvious thing and just turn it into the lost and found. 9_9

You want to keep it? Fine. Just don't blame anyone but yourself for the owner not being able to find it by not putting it in an obvious location for lost things with a public notice of where it was found and where the owner can pick it up at.

Come back in a month and see if it's still there. After that much time I think you can claim it with a clear conscience. Until then? Not so much.

[Dr.Epic]

:thog: thog like ice cream use scrarf to buy ice cream...with sprinkles

[Runestar]

300+ for a scarf? Pfft I'd keep it for the karmic lesson it would give. Though, I doubt they would care that much if they can not only afford $300 for a scarf, but can afford to be careless with a $300 scarf.

On second thought forget keeping it. Hock it and donate the money to charity. :smallamused:

What other people want to do with their money is really their business, even if we may not agree with their degree of "extravagance". Regardless of the person is Bill Gates, some middle-class person or even a beggar, whatever their intention, whether you feel they deserved it or not, it is an undeniable fact that the scarf is theirs and not yours. They paid for it, not you (assuming it wasn't stolen or anything).

I honestly don't think you have any right to lay claim to it at all, whatever the reason. There is nothing wrong with deciding that you don't want to have to go through all the hassle of tracking down the owner, but in the very least, stop trying to come with 101 reasons why it would be acceptable to keep it for yourself. It isn't. It never will be, unless the owner personally told you they don't want it anymore and that you may have it as reward for your honesty.:smallsmile:

[Pocketa]

This is why people should put nametags in their clothes.

Especially if part of those clothes is a $335 scarf.

Something that I do. It doesn't take a ton of time. All I do is write it on the tag, which is what people will at least be checking when they wash it. I cross the name out when I give it to someone else or give it away.


Again, police. Why do you keep ignoring this option?

Frankly, police have better things to do, especially in a place like SF Bay Area than try to track down the owner of a scarf. Such as, y'know, arresting crooks.

This. Hence the police option is now null. Also, the fact there are multiple jurisdictions makes it hard. My school is on the border between two major cities. Also, there are special police departments solely for the college campus.


Turn it in to the lost and found. Put up a notice on Craig's List saying what it is, where you found it and where you have put it.

There. You are done with it.

You clearly want to keep this scarf judging by all the checking into it, verifying its authenticity, the already formed plan of dry cleaning it for your later use, and all the excuses of why not to just do the very obvious thing and just turn it into the lost and found. 9_9

You want to keep it? Fine. Just don't blame anyone but yourself for the owner not being able to find it by not putting it in an obvious location for lost things with a public notice of where it was found and where the owner can pick it up at.

Come back in a month and see if it's still there. After that much time I think you can claim it with a clear conscience. Until then? Not so much.

You have obviously not read the previous posts. There is a Craigslist ad. Hours later, no reply. It's not obscure, etc.

There is no public place to leave it or put it. Lost and Found at my school is a free box and people are known to just take things that are left there without any verification of proper ownership, plus, it's very unlikely that it actually belonged to anyone at my school just because it was found near it.

Also, kids at my school just don't wear Burberry. Everybody buys from either regular teen stores (Wet Seal, Hot Topic, etc.) which sell trendy items for relatively low prices (well, lower than $335), or thrift stores/Urban Outfitters/American Apparel a la LookBook.NU. So it's very unlikely that it belongs to someone at my school.

The school email list has nothing about a lost scarf, and it does report on lost items (but not found ones).

Nobody replied to my Craigslist ad thus far.

And I'm having it dry cleaned because for all I know it could have lice or fleas, seeing as it's not mine, but I'm not exactly leaving it outside. Obviously it has to be cleaned, but it's cashmere and the site said it is dry-clean only, so I have to have it dry cleaned. I don't want a disease.

[Moff Chumley]

Again, police. Why do you keep ignoring this option?

SF Bay Area police fall into several categories.
1) Jerks who don't take their job seriously.
2) Good hearted, determined people.
3) People who are just in it for the guns.

I doubt the latter two are going to be involved. Which leaves jerks. This may be a regional thing, but if you never have to deal with obnoxious Northern California law-enforcement officers, your life will be much the better.


And no, finding something doesn't make it a gift from the universe.

It's a matter of perspective and whimsy, my friend. :smallwink:

[Worira]

And, again, police departments have offices specifically for this, and it's not a strain on resources anyway. They don't send out teams of detectives to hunt down the original owner, they hold onto it and maybe put an ad in the paper. As for jurisdiction, just bring it to the station nearest to where you found the scarf, or whichever is most convenient for you to get to, and let them sort it out. In fact, under California state law, you're legally obligated to bring it to the police. And if it isn't claimed, the finder owns it anyway.

[tomandtish]

From a legal perspective, here’s the relevant portion of California law:

Section 2080 of the Civil Code provides that any person who finds and takes charge of a lost item acts as "a depositary for the owner." If the true owner is known, the finder must notify him/her/it within a reasonable time and "make restitution without compensation, except a reasonable charge for saving and taking care of the property." Id. § 2080. If the true owner is not known and the item is worth more than $100, then the finder has a duty to turn it over to the local police department within a reasonable time. Id. § 2080.1. The owner then has 90 days to claim the property. Id. § 2080.2. If the true owner fails to do so and the property is worth more than $250, then the police publish a notice, and 7 days after that ownership of the property vests in the person who found it, with certain exceptions. Id. § 2080.3.

So from a strictly legal point of view, the answer is clear. Turn it over to the police. I won’t weigh in on whether or not it’s the right thing to do, but from a legal perspective the law says you have to. And after 97 days (give or take depending on how long it takes the police to publish the notice), if no one claims it, it’s probably yours (I suspect the scarf is not in the exceptions).

If you do it this way, you don’t have to worry about wearing it, and running the (admittedly very small) chance that the owner sees it and calls the police. After all, unless there’s more that you know that you haven’t told us, you don’t actually know how it ended up there. Maybe it was in someone’s purse that was stolen and the thief threw it out while going through the purse.

I’d also say that Craig’s list probably isn’t a reliable way of advertising. While the internet is a useful tool for many of us, older generations aren’t as familiar with all the fine points. My parents (I’m 41) look stuff up online, but probably wouldn’t think of Craig’s list, and my Grandparents only use e-mail (and make calls about once a week to have that explained).

[Pocketa]

That's if the value is indeed greater than $100.

Just measured the scarf today. It's about a foot shorter than advertised, so probably counterfeit. A nice one, but still. I did try it on, it looked nothing like the photos, so I measured it, and it's short and in a print not advertised, thus, most likely counterfeit and thus worth maybe $25 max as a known counterfeit.

[Lev]

That's if the value is indeed greater than $100.

Just measured the scarf today. It's about a foot shorter than advertised, so probably counterfeit. A nice one, but still. I did try it on, it looked nothing like the photos, so I measured it, and it's short and in a print not advertised, thus, most likely counterfeit and thus worth maybe $25 max as a known counterfeit.
Don't be sad, it was a good thread =]
Put it in the lost and found?

[Pocketa]

This has been answered. No.

[BritishBill]

My school has closed of a certain sector that students walk through to get from one side to another. We have an open campus, and we're allowed to walk on the perimeter of the school to get to classes. This perimeter is used by the general public as well.

Walking along this path, I see something crumpled, on the ground. I pick it up. It's a Burberry scarf, in their signature "camel", cashmere. The Burberry tag (the one signifying it is indeed Burberry) is still on it. There are two small holes in the scarf.

I went home and looked it up.

http://us.burberry.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3926928&cp=3769621&parentPage=family

It's a $335 scarf.

If I turn it into Lost and Found, it might not get claimed, and then it will be sent to Goodwill. Plus, L+F has a very lax policy, letting students basically pick clothing they like out without verification of ownership.

It also might not have been dropped by a student at my high school. Seeing as it's that expensive, it's not likely that a kid at my school had bought it or worn it, etc. It smells like expensive perfume. Most people at my school go to thrift stores or Urban Outfitters, and nobody wears perfume (legit), so it's not likely that it belongs to a high school kid.

What should I do with the scarf? I really really like it, and it's going to be impossible to figure out who it belongs to. Is it okay if I keep it?

If there are posters that go up around school about it, I will return it to the owner, btw. I won't be wearing it around school seeing as it's basically summer, and I won't be giving it back to anyone that just claims it is theirs without properly identifying it (color, holes, etc.).

Is this an okay plan?
Ultimately if you can keep it or not is up to you. If you can live with it sure. If not turn it in

[Worira]

Didn't you say that you had a friend look at it and determine that it was genuine? And that it smelled of $225 perfume?

[Mando Knight]

This has been answered. No.

Then you have a new (-ish?) scarf. Problem solved.

[Serpentine]

Clothing... it's something that you wear for a few seasons and you throw out.Who does that? :confused:
More specifically than a gift, the term "gift horse" is a reference to a large wooden horse that was full of Greek soldiers. Looking it in the mouth would've actually been a good idea for the Trojans...Been said, but no, nothing to do with the Trojan horse. It is literally saying that if someone decides to just give you a horse, it's very bad form to check its teeth for its age.

She's already put up a Craig's List ad, whatever those things are, and has said that she'll put up posters. Given the legal advice posted, I'd say definitely give one of them to the police. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned it's hers until someone spots a poster and claims it *shrug*

[Don Julio Anejo]

Who does that? :confused:
Uhm.. *raises hand* *shy voice* me? :redface:
But then again, more than a few people thought I was gay before they got to know me and I do get called metro pretty often. Doing photography and listening to trance doesn't help.

Yes, I seriously do have a problem with wearing something that just went out of fashion for anything other than sleeping in it. At best, you look stupid, at worst, it looks like you're trying too hard and failing at it. True, there's stuff that doesn't go out of fashion (like plain hoodies or blue jeans), but then again it's also usually not in fashion to begin with.

PS: for the record, I donate all the clothing I don't wear anymore to the hospital I volunteer at, I don't actually throw it out unless it's literally full of holes or covered in sulphuric acid (which would still make it full of holes..).

[Serpentine]

Meh. I just hang around waiting for fashions I like to come round, stock up, and wear it to death while I wait for another fashion I like to come round.
It's your money, but it's definitely not an ethic I can relate to.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Actually money wise it's about the same (if not cheaper) as wearing same-quality clothes that aren't really in fashion. You just have to put more work into it and check for sales at stores like Armani Exchange, Guess and Esprit (okay, latter not really expensive either way, but stuff there looks really nice), and you can have really nice clothing for extremely low (given the quality) prices.

A $35 polo shirt may seem expensive, but when it lasts longer than 2 or 3 equivalent polos from American Eagle or Walmart and also happens to look much nicer, I very much think it's worth it. AX stuff literally lasts forever, to the point where you can wear it to a construction site for a month and it'll look less used than special made work clothes.

Most other stuff you can buy either falls apart after a few washes or doesn't cost significantly less. And for a lot of stores, stuff rarely goes on sale unlike higher end boutiques, where they only get a few things in a certain style and have a sale once they've sold most of it, even though people are going to be wearing it for at least the next year. So if in the end money wise it's going to cost me about the same all things considered and the only thing I'm spending is my time to check out the stores... The question is, why not? In return I get to look nice.

[Trog]

You have obviously not read the previous posts. There is a Craigslist ad. Hours later, no reply. It's not obscure, etc.
I read enough to get the feeling you want to keep it. I did miss the bit about the ad. I still say give it a month. Stick the scarf in a storage box until then.

[742]

you wish to keep it, you feel bad about keeping it, you need someone to rationalize making no effort to return it*, so you come here and ask for us to excuse you.

you are excused.

*its a lot of effort to return a piece of clothing, but its the right thing to do and you already seem to know this, but while doing it gets you good points, failing to do it gets you negligable evil points. do i have to remind you that evil is cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilIsCool) fun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilFeelsGood) sexy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilIsSexy) and tasty (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilTastesGood) ? honestly angsting about it here is probably more trouble than just making a decision either way. if you like it, wear it, if someone says "hey, thats the three hundred dollar scarf i lost last year!" offer to hand it back to them. its not really a big deal.

[Serpentine]

Don: it's the "getting rid of stuff after a year or two of wear and constantly buying more just to be "fashionable"" bit, not "fashionable stuff costs more". The difference between your habits and mine is that you're buying new things with each fashion, while I'm wearing things 'til they wear out and I need to buy more.
(edit: Not intending to pass judgement, mind (though obviously I like my way better :smalltongue:), just noting the difference)

[Moff Chumley]

Jeans, t-shirts, and random jackets you got for cheap never go out of style. :smallamused:

[Eloi]

Jeans, t-shirts, and random jackets you got for cheap never go out of style. :smallamused:

Quoted for emphasis. As well as black clothes.

[Moff Chumley]

*looks down*

*sees black T-shirt, black skinny jeans, black sneakers*

*looks back at keyboard*

:smallamused:

:smallcool:

[Eloi]

*looks down*

*sees black T-shirt, black skinny jeans, black sneakers*

*looks back at keyboard*

:smallamused:

:smallcool:

*looks down realizes wearing same thing*
Crap! I'm conforming!
*puts on black newsboy cap*
There we go.
:smallcool:

[Pocketa]

I just buy classics. A la Brooks Brothers. So I have things I wear depending on the weather season. My trench for winter, my lighter cardigans for spring, etc. Same stuff, but every year, I add to the collection, but I do wait for items. I recently really wanted a white cardigan, so I waited, and waited, and looked, and found the perfect one.

Also...

$4.99 Abercrombie and Fitch polo dress. Found it new with tags. Retailed for well over $60 dollars. Also, not listed on their site, has a special inner tag, and it is legit Abercrombie, so likely a model sample.

Win.

[IonDragon]

Sell it without a second thought. I've maybe once had something returned to me that was of any value out of many that I have lost. I do not believe in karma, and you don't even know if whoever lost it goes to your school much less that whoever picks it up from the lost and found has any more claim to it than you.

[Ravens_cry]

Sell it without a second thought. I've maybe once had something returned to me that was of any value out of many that I have lost. I do not believe in karma, and you don't even know if whoever lost it goes to your school much less that whoever picks it up from the lost and found has any more claim to it than you.
It it actually belongs to them, yes they do. True character is who you are in the dark, when it's easy to rationalize selfish decisions, whether you believe in a reward for it it or not..

[Superglucose]

Sell it without a second thought. I've maybe once had something returned to me that was of any value out of many that I have lost. I do not believe in karma, and you don't even know if whoever lost it goes to your school much less that whoever picks it up from the lost and found has any more claim to it than you.
So I totally found this rad volvo convertible that someone just happened to leave in the parking lot of this apartment complex! I figured I'd sell it, but I couldn't find the keys anywhere nearby. I'm thinking I'll just sell the parts though. I have someone lined up already to take the battery off my hands!

[Kobold-Bard]

So I totally found this rad volvo convertible that someone just happened to leave in the parking lot of this apartment complex! I figured I'd sell it, but I couldn't find the keys anywhere nearby. I'm thinking I'll just sell the parts though. I have someone lined up already to take the battery off my hands!

I don't consider a scarf on the floor and a locked car in a car park to be equal, but that could just be me.

[Eloi]

So I totally found this rad volvo convertible that someone just happened to leave in the parking lot of this apartment complex! I figured I'd sell it, but I couldn't find the keys anywhere nearby. I'm thinking I'll just sell the parts though. I have someone lined up already to take the battery off my hands!

I don't think people care about cars as much as they do scarfs. If I lost my cheap counterfeit scarf I wouldn't mind if I lost it and someone else sold it. It was discovered to be counterfeit, correct?

[Coidzor]

I apologize for the fact that I haven't checked through the thread in its entirety, but I believe I have a pertinent comic to link to. (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1899#comic) Apologies for the religious reference at the end there.

[Ravens_cry]

I don't think people care about cars as much as they do scarfs. If I lost my cheap counterfeit scarf I wouldn't mind if I lost it and someone else sold it. It was discovered to be counterfeit, correct?
That's what's intriguing, moral issues aside. First we were told by the OP it was this OMG super valuable scarf they checked out with a friend and it's like totally legit and everything. Then when tomandtish quoted the pertinent passages of California law, suddenly its counterfeit.:smallconfused:

[Eloi]

That's what's intriguing, moral issues aside. First we were told by the OP it was this OMG super valuable scarf they checked out with a friend and it's like totally legit and everything. Then when tomandtish quoted the pertinent passages of California law, suddenly its counterfeit.:smallconfused:

No, when the OP mentioned how slight details were different than scarfs of that kind did I think its counterfeit. Like the 'Made in the U.K.' instead of 'Made in Scotland' IIRC.

[Ravens_cry]

No, when the OP mentioned how slight details were different than scarfs of that kind did I think its counterfeit. Like the 'Made in the U.K.' instead of 'Made in Scotland' IIRC.
OK.Still, it belongs to someone who is not the OP, and at least an effort should be made to return it, in my view.

[Worira]

No, when the OP mentioned how slight details were different than scarfs of that kind did I think its counterfeit. Like the 'Made in the U.K.' instead of 'Made in Scotland' IIRC.

Then she mentioned that her friend looked at it and decided it was legitimate, then she decided it was counterfeit again. Both cases of deciding it was counterfeit closely followed her realizing or having it pointed out to her that she would be legally obligated to bring it to the police, were it legitimate.

[Castel]

I still can't get over the fact that a scarf could be worth more than 300 dollars... I mean, I get mine for the equivalent of about 5 dollars, with the ones I consider expensive at about 20 dollars.

Just leave the Craigslist ad up, Pocketa. Or go to the police if you really can't find peace of mind: there's no point in having some fancy scarf if it'll just make you feel bad/uncomfortable in the end.

[Pocketa]

Then she mentioned that her friend looked at it and decided it was legitimate, then she decided it was counterfeit again. Both cases of deciding it was counterfeit closely followed her realizing or having it pointed out to her that she would be legally obligated to bring it to the police, were it legitimate.


Timeline of figuring out whether it is legit or not is independent of posting.

Arguments towards its authenticity:

Camel print.
Burberry tag, which could change seasonally or even regionally, seeing as they have different tags for Japan, etc.
Feels nice, so maybe cashmere.
Tassels match photo.
Width seems to match the description.
Not an obvious fake (i.e. misspelling of Burberry).

Against:

The holes.
Made in England vs. Made in Scotland.
Not listed on site.
A couple inches shorter than listed online.
Fact nobody reported it missing and the fact nobody replied to the ads.
Material is very thin.

So, I'm not sure if it's a real Burberry scarf or not. The fact it has holes makes me question its authenticity seeing as Burberry is known for quality. Also, it's way too hot to wear a cashmere scarf, including the evenings that the scarf would have been lost, seeing as we had really hot and humid weather, the worst of the year thusfar, that week, day and night. Still, it could just be worn. I'm not an expert on luxury goods, obv.

Other notes, this thread has really run its course, I think.

I'm leaving up the Craigslist ad.
I'll be out of town for the next few weeks, most likely.
But I'll check my email.

[Kobold-Bard]

Is cragslist a particularly reliable source for this stuff? I'd never heard of it before this thread.

[Eloi]

Is cragslist a particularly reliable source for this stuff? I'd never heard of it before this thread.

Its a very popular (American) site with plenty of references to it in the Mass Media (see the Craigslist song for an example).

[Kobold-Bard]

Its a very popular (American) site with plenty of references to it in the Mass Media (see the Craigslist song for an example).

But if people were looking for a lost scarf, would that be somewhere it would be assumed they'd look?

[Eloi]

But if people were looking for a lost scarf, would that be somewhere it would be assumed they'd look?

Yep, if I lose something I usually check there. Actually found my dog that ran away with it one time.

[Kobold-Bard]

Yep, if I lose something I usually check there. Actually found my dog that ran away with it one time.

Well then, my scepticism is abated.

[THAC0]

But if people were looking for a lost scarf, would that be somewhere it would be assumed they'd look?

I wouldn't, but I also don't have a cell phone which makes me an old fogey, I guess. :smallcool:

[Recaiden]

That's if the value is indeed greater than $100.

Just measured the scarf today. It's about a foot shorter than advertised, so probably counterfeit. A nice one, but still. I did try it on, it looked nothing like the photos, so I measured it, and it's short and in a print not advertised, thus, most likely counterfeit and thus worth maybe $25 max as a known counterfeit.

I recommend you give it to the police anyway.

[Lin Bayaseda]

Is this an okay plan?
If by "okay" you mean "allowing me to keep the scarf with only a minimal tax on my conscience", then yes.

[kusje]

If by "okay" you mean "allowing me to keep the scarf with only a minimal tax on my conscience", then yes.

An okay plan would be her not picking up an object that she had no intention of returning. If she had left it there, the owner would have had a much higher chance of retrieving it upon noticing that it was lost.

I find her attempts to justify keeping it disgusting and the best thing she can do now is to put it in the lost and found but she claims to have ruled that out because she fears someone else other than the owner taking it -a legit fear considering someone that other than the owner is currently coveting it.

[Worira]

To be fair, she's correct (presumably, anyway) in stating that her school's lost and found has little to no verification process. This isn't a problem with the police, but a poor system is a legitimate concern with most university lost and founds.

[Runestar]

I can accept your reticence in handing a lost item over to the authorities if you believe the system is flawed and the item likely will not find its way back to its owner. But I do not accept that the best solution in such a scenario would be to simply keep the item for yourself, however much or little it is worth.

Maybe that's why if I see an item lying about which does not belong to me, I just leave it alone. Which I feel isn't a bad system if everyone is on the same page. I once left my laptop at Macdonalds. Came back half an hour later, it was still there in the bag. No muss, no fuss. :smallcool:

[Wardog]

There also seems to be a bit of a Catch-22 type argument going on here as well.

Firstly, its "This looks like a really expensive scarf. Anyone who can loose such an expensive scarf (and not reply to a Craigslist post in 8 hours) obviously doesn't want/desrve it. So it is okay to keep it."

Which as been replaced with "Actually, its just a cheap scarf. So its okay to keep it".

So under what circumstances is it not acceptible to keep someone else's lost property?

[Serpentine]

I can't believe everyone's making such a big fuss out of a lost bit of cloth... :smallconfused: She's made an ad, and I presume from previous posts that she's put up posters. Hopefully one of those went to the police. Assuming she's done that, as far as I'm concerned if noone claims it it's hers.
If it were me? I'd be annoyed at myself for losing it, I'd check with any businesses nearby and with the police and look around for any "found" posters. If it was worth a lot of money, I would put ads in the paper and possibly put up some posters of my own. If I saw someone wearing it, I would ask them about it and think little of them if they refused to give it back (assuming it's the same item). Other than that... Meh. If they took it to the police that would be convenient for me, but I wouldn't think less of them for not doing so.

[kusje]

So under what circumstances is it not acceptible to keep someone else's lost property?

When you don't want/like it?

[Eloel]

Maybe that's why if I see an item lying about which does not belong to me, I just leave it alone. Which I feel isn't a bad system if everyone is on the same page. I once left my laptop at Macdonalds. Came back half an hour later, it was still there in the bag. No muss, no fuss. :smallcool:

This. Maybe, if you found it on the floor, put it up somewhere nearby (as in, on a low wall, a low tree branch etc.) so that it doesn't get stepped on, and is easy to see. I've forgotten bags around very often, and I tend to find them where I forgot them. I'm very thankful of anyone who doesn't care enough to take it, because searching it off of police would be a hassle.

Only if the item somehow ended up on you that you should have to get it to the owner. Example, if you took someone's glasses/phone/laptop/whatever thinking they were yours (when yours were, for example, in your bag), or accidentally (you hang your coat somewhere. When you're taking it back to put in bag, you take the one behind it too without seeing...) you should find a way to get it back to the owner, be it police, posters, anything.

If they dropped/forgot something, leave it there.

[Serpentine]

Circumstances in which it is reasonable to keep lost property:
1. When it's not worth enough for someone to look for it.
2. When you've made some effort for make it possible for the owner to contact you, and they don't.
3. When it's somewhere it's extremely unlikely anyone will be around to claim it (e.g. at a caravan park or somewhere people pass through and never come back).

[Syka]

See...I don't trust other people. I trust myself. This is why if I see an item someone may want back (umbrella's, even, but other stuff as well) I take it and alert the people in the place where I found it "Hey, I found Item X. If someone asks about it, please give them my phone number and I'll get it back to them."

It's worked thus far. I've gotten a few items out of it, but I've also returned items. We've acquired at least 2 umbrella's that way (on 2 separate occasions we found variations on the same bright green umbrella with a duck head...no one ever contacted us).

[kusje]

Circumstances in which it is reasonable to keep lost property:
1. When it's not worth enough for someone to look for it.
2. When you've made some effort for make it possible for the owner to contact you, and they don't.
3. When it's somewhere it's extremely unlikely anyone will be around to claim it (e.g. at a caravan park or somewhere people pass through and never come back).

None of which is the case here.

1. It's supposedly worth $300. Even if it turns out to be a fake, she was contemplating keeping it when she thought it was worth $300.
2. She apparently hasn't done anything beyond checking on craiglist.
3. It's a path. If I lost something, I'd retrace my steps hoping to find it before someone takes it.


See...I don't trust other people. I trust myself. This is why if I see an item someone may want back (umbrella's, even, but other stuff as well) I take it and alert the people in the place where I found it "Hey, I found Item X. If someone asks about it, please give them my phone number and I'll get it back to them."

It's worked thus far. I've gotten a few items out of it, but I've also returned items. We've acquired at least 2 umbrella's that way (on 2 separate occasions we found variations on the same bright green umbrella with a duck head...no one ever contacted us).

Fair enough. You pick up things because you believe nobody else will make a fair amount of effort to return it back to the owner while you do so. That's commendable and I don't think anyone can fault you for keeping the unclaimed item.

However, this case is totally different. She picks up the item without the intention of trying to return the item to the owner because it would be too much trouble for her.

Even if she just dumped it in the lost and found where anyone else can take it, there would be an infinitely higher chance for the owner to retrieve the item compared to her keeping it at hope and trying to ask the internet to help justify her keeping it because she "really really likes" it.

[Serpentine]

She indicated earlier that she would put up posters. If she hasn't, well, I disagree with that decision but not enough to insist that she's a terrible awful nasty person. If she has, then she's firmly within #2.

[kusje]

She indicated earlier that she would put up posters. If she hasn't, well, I disagree with that decision but not enough to insist that she's a terrible awful nasty person. If she has, then she's firmly within #2.

I went to check and she did say that she would put up exactly 1 poster after starting off with this:


The thing is, I have no burning desire to return something to somebody, especially if it involves my time and energy to make posters. Posters are an ineffective means of communication at my school, and for reference, it is a high school.

Anyway, I guess we have different standards of morality. If it came to my attention that a friend is doing what she is currently doing, that person would instantly cease to be a friend.

[Eloi]

I went to check and she did say that she would put up exactly 1 poster after starting off with this:



Anyway, I guess we have different standards of morality. If it came to my attention that a friend is doing what she is currently doing, that person would instantly cease to be a friend.

For not posting posters for some klutz who dropped a counterfeit scarf? That's kind of petty, don't you think?

[Serpentine]

Anyway, I guess we have different standards of morality. If it came to my attention that a friend is doing what she is currently doing, that person would instantly cease to be a friend.If I were that friend, my response would be "Seriously? You're going to stop being friends with me because of a scarf? I see. Well, good riddance, then. See ya."
I find such judgementalism far more questionably moral than not trying very hard to find the owner of a lost scarf.

Incidentally, as it turns out I do have a scarf I found somewhere. Nothing so fancy as that. No tags, even - probably home made. I feel no guilt about keeping it. The person who lost it would, I imagine, have simply given it up as lost as soon as it was. I know I did when I lost the scarf my grandmother made me - I kicked myself for that, but although it would have been nice to get it back I never expected it, didn't look for it, and do not begrudge whoever it was who found it for keeping it, as I presume they did.
I also have a little gold panther pendant that my dad found on the beach once. I think if it were me who found it I probably would've given my details to the police, but who knows how long it'd been there? And who would expect a tiny little charm to be found on the beach?
My awesome ginormous drug company umbrella I am annoyed at losing and annoyed at whoever took it, for these reasons: an umbrella is a bigger deal than a scarf; this umbrella was the biggest carrying umbrella I've ever seen; it was black with one purple segment - purple is awesome; I left it on the bus, so it should have been easy enough to track down - I asked the driver, and called the company I think, but they apparently hadn't seen it. That one, if I ever see someone walking around with it I will ask them about it and ask for it back if I'm certain it's mine. As can the owner of the scarf I've got, and Pocketa's.

[paddyfool]

@Pocketa,

You've been commendably thoughtful and thorough in what you've done visavis this scarf. I confess my instinct would be different - to simply lift it out of the dirt and hang it as securely as can be easily arranged somewhere visible right by where it fell for (hopefully) the owner to take. Or if it looks too fragile or thievable to last long enough outside to have a decent chance of retrieval, to simply drop it off at a charity shop (since I doubt the owner would report the loss at a police station), just like you'd do with money found lying in the street.

However, I wouldn't personally consider taking it. Quite apart from the moral case, I simply find it profoundly disquieting to have stuff in my possession to which I have no decent claim to ownership. (I don't even like borrowing, although by a smaller degree of dislike, and I've pretty much given up poker because of qualms about the winnings... however amusing the dropping off of£500 in used fifties in a charity tin may have been).

[Pocketa]

There also seems to be a bit of a Catch-22 type argument going on here as well.

Firstly, its "This looks like a really expensive scarf. Anyone who can loose such an expensive scarf (and not reply to a Craigslist post in 8 hours) obviously doesn't want/desrve it. So it is okay to keep it."

Which as been replaced with "Actually, its just a cheap scarf. So its okay to keep it".

So under what circumstances is it not acceptible to keep someone else's lost property?

It's not acceptable, but I'm holding it until it gets claimed. Problem is, posters aren't allowed to be hung in that area, it turns out. Admin is only allowing people to put them by bulletin boards, and not during the last days of school. I'm about to travel out of town for a while, so I don't have the time or resources with finals and packing coming up to more thoroughly advertise said lost scarf. Plus, I live in a huge city, in a huge metropolitan area. This isn't a one horse town with a tavern I could put a poster in. Also, my school is not on a walkway that the standard pedestrian would take. It's a street used solely by drivers and it's not one that many people walk on, even high school kids, except for the fact that routes were changed because parts of campus were closed for construction. I obviously have to keep the scarf somewhere, hence the dry cleaning issue, because I don't want to catch lice or fleas from the scarf, which will be in my closet so I don't lose it. And it's a nice scarf, but it's summer. It's hot. I am not going to be seen in a scarf in the middle of summer. It's unreasonable and tacky.

The reason authenticity matters is that it makes the difference between the value of the scarf, which dictates whether I am obligated to turn it into the police. I don't need more time or paper work, and remember, I'm a minor. Minor. Child. Under 18. I don't care if people assume that I should be more responsible for their lost things because I'm older. I'm not an adult. I'm not going to go the extent an adult should go to in order to get the scarf back to the original owner. I'm not placing ads, which cost money, or going even further out of my way to deal with the fact that somebody was irresponsible and lost something, which is what it gets down to. People should take care of and keep track of their things. The fact I even put up a Craigslist ad should be enough.

Craigslist ad is up.

Dubious quality has been affirmed as dubious.

I've told people I found a missing scarf and they've told people and nobody has claimed it.

I've done the best I want to do.

I've asked that this thread be closed because it got ridiculously inflammatory. Thanks.

[Serpentine]

Fair enough. Enjoy your fancy new scarf!

[mangosta71]

Or your dubiously fancy scarf, at least.

[Erloas]

You know, I bet if 90% of guys found the scarf they wouldn't even have thought about trying to find the owner. Mostly because I had no idea a scarf could even possibly be worth $300. To me a scarf isn't really an item of any value, its not some item I would ever expect someone else to come looking for. Sure if it where lost on a ski slope, knowing the person could easily be coming back for it soon then I would do something with it to help the owner get it back if they were going to look for it (putting it someplace conspicuous, leaving it at the lift line), but on a fairly busy city street? Its not worth the effort.

Same goes for a lot of items. Someone leaves a pair of glasses on a counter at a grocery store? Sure you give them to a clerk and be done with it, the person that lost it could probably figure out where it was lost at. A pair of glasses on the side of a street? No one to give it to, no reasonable way for someone to know where they lost, not the type of item someone is going to check a police station for. Any random common item with no form of identification is not worth the effort of the person finding it or the person loosing it to spend much time trying to find it.

[Wardog]

and remember, I'm a minor. Minor. Child. Under 18. I don't care if people assume that I should be more responsible for their lost things because I'm older. I'm not an adult. I'm not going to go the extent an adult should go to in order to get the scarf back to the original owner.

Why does that make a difference?

Is it not possible for you as a minor to get to a police station?

Or could you not ask a parent/guardian to take it there for you?

[Syka]

Why does that make a difference?

Is it not possible for you as a minor to get to a police station?

Or could you not ask a parent/guardian to take it there for you?

The impression I got is she's saying since she is a minor, and not an adult, she can't be held to the same standards of being expected to return a lost item.


Which, in my opinion, is bogus. Pretttty sure you still can be for a situation like this, just like you can still be held accountable for liberating an item from a store. Age is, unfortunately, not an excuse for not adhering to the law.

[Brewdude]

Give it to goodwill, then buy it back off the rack, so you have a receipt. Voila, problem solved.

[Brother Oni]

Which, in my opinion, is bogus. Pretttty sure you still can be for a situation like this, just like you can still be held accountable for liberating an item from a store. Age is, unfortunately, not an excuse for not adhering to the law.

Age can be an excuse for not being held accountable by the law (being tried as a juvenile compared to being tried as an adult), at least for more serious offences.

That said, I agree with you here. If you're old enough to know what the right thing is to do, then you don't really have the excuse of 'I'm a minor, therefore I'm not as accountable as an adult'.

Poketa seems well aware of the potential consequences for keeping the scarf, so I'm curious why she seems so reticent in handing it in to the police, the rumoured unhelpfulness of North Californian LEOs not withstanding.

[Knaight]

Age can be an excuse for not being held accountable by the law (being tried as a juvenile compared to being tried as an adult), at least for more serious offences.

Depends on where you are. There have been 11 year olds tried for murder in the US for instance, and some areas don't even have a law like that.