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Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 04:30 AM
Hey I have been toying with something for my new character for some time. He is not a class that has access to all knowledge skills as class skills nor is he a bard. Roleplay-wise he is a scholar though and I want to reflect that. His int is only 14 but the way I really want to reflect it is in know skills. I only have 2 skill points per level that I dont have to spend on other things and only one knowledge is a class skill. Is there any feat or the like that can give me boosts on know or make all know skills class skills or something?

Saph
2010-06-12, 04:32 AM
The "Education" feat will do it. It's in both the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and the Eberron Campaign Setting. Boosts Knowledge and makes all Knowledge skills class skills.

Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 04:36 AM
I'm usually very against taking a feat for something like that but it does seem to fit for this character. Nothing that gives a weak bardic knowledge type thing or anything like that is there?

Saph
2010-06-12, 04:38 AM
There are quite a few PrCs and alternate classes that give Bardic Lore, but it's typically based off class level. Depends which class you're using.

Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 04:41 AM
No multiclassing for it, especially if based off class level wont work. I'm thinking the feat will do well enough I suppose. I'm doing a psywar and the way I'm playing him requires a whooole lot of feats as is, Id rather not multiclass for fluff. The feat is probably worth it though.

Saph
2010-06-12, 05:17 AM
You could just ask the DM if you could trade in one of your feats for Bardic Lore. That way it'd use your class level. It's a reasonable enough request.

Shadowleaf
2010-06-12, 05:18 AM
Cloistered Clerics get Lore, which is exactly the same as Bardic Knowledge.

They get all Knowledge skills as class skills too.

Ranos
2010-06-12, 05:22 AM
So what's your class ? Maybe it'll be easier to help you if we know what we're dealing with.

Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 05:23 AM
I dont have a book in front of me right now but bardic knowledge only applies to local important people, artifacts, and places right? What does lore do?

Saph
2010-06-12, 05:24 AM
Lore is the same as Bardic Knowledge.

If you don't have the skillpoints to max out lots of Knowledges, Bardic Knowledge is a good substitute, because it's almost always possible to relate it to what you're trying to figure out somehow.

Shadowleaf
2010-06-12, 05:25 AM
I dont have a book in front of me right now but bardic knowledge only applies to local important people, artifacts, and places right? What does lore do?
"Lore (Ex)

Thanks to long hours of study, a cloistered cleric has a wide range of stray knowledge. This ability is identical to the bard's bardic knowledge class feature, using the cloistered cleric's class level in place of the bard level. "

Bardic Knowledge

A bard may make a special bardic knowledge check with a bonus equal to his bard level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the bard has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.)

Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 05:26 AM
But it doesn't, for example, work for creature identification and the like?

Shadowleaf
2010-06-12, 05:27 AM
Not really. That would be Knowledge: Religion, Nature, The Planes, Arcana or Dungeoneering.

Depending on what type of monster it is, obviously.

Saph
2010-06-12, 05:28 AM
Doesn't work for creature identification, but you might be able to remember a story that relates to that creature somehow. It's a "roll and see what the DM tells you" sort of skill.

It's not as good as having max ranks in the relevant Knowledge, but then you wouldn't expect it to be.

Shadowleaf
2010-06-12, 05:30 AM
You could use it to remember local legends of the terrible Dragon, which used to terrorize the countryside.


However, you won't be able to use it to remember a Troll's weakness. Unless you recall a story of how Sir Holierthanthou slayed the evil Troll with a mighty flaming sword.

Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 05:30 AM
Yeah, I was planning on taking ~5 ranks in a bunch of knowledges and then afterwards just splitting skillpoints between them as I level. What kind of bonus does the education feat give to knowledge skills?

Shadowleaf
2010-06-12, 05:31 AM
It makes all Knowledge skills class skills, iirc.

Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 05:31 AM
Oh I thought it gave a bonus too

Shadowleaf
2010-06-12, 05:33 AM
It does, actually. +1 to 2 Knowledge skills of your choice, and makes Knowledge skills class skills. My bad.

Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 05:35 AM
Ah okay, pretty small bonus, but I guess worth it for the class skills.

Saph
2010-06-12, 05:35 AM
The Player's Guide to Faerun version gives +2 to 2 Knowledges. But that's the Forgotten Realms for you. :smallwink:

Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 05:36 AM
Oh well thats the one I'll use since the game is in the forgotten realms

Shadowleaf
2010-06-12, 05:38 AM
Huh. I looked at my copy of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting. +1 to 2, not +2.

Damn confusing to have 3 versions of the Education feat. Anyway, Players Guide to Faerūn has the regional feat Education, which Saph mentioned. It's better than the other two, as it gives +2 to 2 knowledge skills if you have ranks in them.

Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 05:42 AM
oh... never mind then lol. Oh well. I suppose there is a small chance that, because it's primarily for fluff, my DM might just allow me to take knowledges as class skills. But that's wishful thinking

Shadowleaf
2010-06-12, 05:43 AM
oh... never mind then lol. Oh well. I suppose there is a small chance that, because it's primarily for fluff, my DM might just allow me to take knowledges as class skills. But that's wishful thinking
It's just a feat. Ask him if you can take a flaw to balance it out. It's not exactly a gamebreaking feat, either.

--Lime--
2010-06-12, 05:43 AM
Bardic knowledge checks are my favourite.

I have a question too, though:
Say a character has Knowledge(architecture & engineering). They're in a hall searching around. There is a hidden switch, but it could be literally anywhere.

So they rolled search, but it's not high enough to find the switch on its own.
However, since the switch is behind a fake panel on a fake pillar, how would you decide the character should roll?

Personally, I'd say "You find nothing, but notice one of the pillars doesn't look right." after the first search.

Then they can choose to make an architecture check without DM prompting, to examine the pillar in that way:
"You do quick calculations, and realise that the pillar does not support any load." i.e. it must have another reason for being there.
If they fail the check, it would be something like:
"Perhaps it was placed there to balance the space in the room out. You shrug and decide it's just an innocent pillar after all."

If they passed, another search check with a +5 bonus since it's concentrated on the pillar. With that, they should probably find the switch.

That's how I'd do it. However, how would you do it? Would you secretly roll the knowledge check for them, since if you know about construction, you'll know just by looking that something's not right. Or would you prompt them to make the check: "You can roll knowledge if you like, because that pillar seems odd"? Or do what I did, and make them have to remember to roll?

Just interested, really.

Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 05:45 AM
I'm not entirely sure how he feels about flaws. I will ask.

Shadowleaf
2010-06-12, 05:46 AM
Personally I'd roll the knowledge check for them. The other way around is just too big a hint out of character - once you know the pillar seems a bit funny, you will not let it go.

In real life, you'd probably either dismiss the thought or just look a bit closer, then forget about it. PC's have a way of overdoing things - breaking down the pillar because it looks slightly out of place.


Edit: Also OP - you might want to take a look at the Knowledge Devotion feat in Complete Champion.

Lysander
2010-06-12, 12:50 PM
Bardic knowledge checks are my favourite.

I have a question too, though:
Say a character has Knowledge(architecture & engineering). They're in a hall searching around. There is a hidden switch, but it could be literally anywhere.

So they rolled search, but it's not high enough to find the switch on its own.
However, since the switch is behind a fake panel on a fake pillar, how would you decide the character should roll?

Personally, I'd say "You find nothing, but notice one of the pillars doesn't look right." after the first search.

Then they can choose to make an architecture check without DM prompting, to examine the pillar in that way:
"You do quick calculations, and realise that the pillar does not support any load." i.e. it must have another reason for being there.
If they fail the check, it would be something like:
"Perhaps it was placed there to balance the space in the room out. You shrug and decide it's just an innocent pillar after all."

If they passed, another search check with a +5 bonus since it's concentrated on the pillar. With that, they should probably find the switch.

That's how I'd do it. However, how would you do it? Would you secretly roll the knowledge check for them, since if you know about construction, you'll know just by looking that something's not right. Or would you prompt them to make the check: "You can roll knowledge if you like, because that pillar seems odd"? Or do what I did, and make them have to remember to roll?

Just interested, really.

I think you should simply give the search check a +2 synergy bonus. If they fail the check you can tell them one of the pillars seems to be purely ornamental because it isn't supporting any weight.

Of course, also describe other non-plot critical objects in the room because only mentioning the pillar is the same as telling them THE PILLAR IS SPECIAL!

Chronos Flame
2010-06-12, 03:47 PM
Oh I didnt even think of knowledge devotion. If he will let me take a flaw to balance out educated I will definately take knowledge devotion.