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View Full Version : (D&D 3.5) Of Animals Cohort, Companion, Familiar, and well Handled



Coidzor
2010-06-12, 06:37 AM
So Obtain Familiar + Improved/Draconic/Phynixkin(?) requires two feats to get anything potentially worthwhile off of the ground, but then it's something both with your skill ranks and with some nastiness of its own in addition to sharing your BAB and 1/2 your health. Still... that's two feats in a Ranger build that probably need to be taken near one another in order to avoid the unpleasant side effects of losing a squishy base familiar. Also, carries along with it the risks of a familiar even if it's a tougher one, meaning losing the familiar and replacing it are... not fun. Would probably be obtained later on in the ranger's career so potentially underwhelming in what's offered and when it's offered or the PC might be underwhelming in the late game after investing in this early and neglecting the PC side of the equation. Edit: Possibly available to Sword of the Arcane Order (making that three feats, sorry) Otherwise nada then.

What you get: Not entirely sure. Saw this thrown into a thread that didn't last long enough for further exploration of the suggestion. Can't even remember what the third suggested followup feat to Obtain Familiar was exactly.


Question 1: Can Sword of the Arcane Order attempt this familiar gambit thing?

Question 2: Would it at all be worth investigating if it was possible?


Wild Cohort & Animal CompanionWild Cohort takes a single feat but gives something in-between the animal companion of the ranger and that of the druid, IIRC, keyed off of character level rather than levels in a particular class. Unclear as to whether there's a replacement mechanic, though likely it's the one that the animal companion follows and most DMs would probably come down on that side.

What you get: On the stuff that one gets as one levels up, slower progression, and trade multi-attack for improved evasion and don't share spells or have any kind of special connection. It's just an animal that really likes you and becomes better as you level.

Animal Companion of course, comes with the class, so you have it unless you trade it for an ACF or use a variant ranger such as Mystic Ranger. But you only get it upon reaching 4th level in Ranger and it's not that great. Free replacement when they bite the dust, only requiring a day to summon the new one though.

What you can get, to my knowledge. (Level here being equivalent Druid Level for purposes of Animal Companion. Ripped from the SRD for the most part. Should be A-OK there.)

1st Level. Baselines. Gets +6HD, +6 Natural Armor, +3 Strength and Dexterity, and 4 Bonus Tricks. Also the companion gets Multiattack, Devotion, Evasion, Link, and Sharespells.

Badger
Camel
Dire rat
Dog
Riding dog
Eagle
Hawk
Horse (light or heavy),
Owl
Pony
Snake (Small or Medium viper)
Wolf

(Aquatic)
Manta ray
Porpoise
Medium Shark
Squid

(Sorry, no squigs)

4th Level or Higher (Level -3) Gets +4HD, +4 Natural Armor, +2 Strength and Dexterity, and 3 Bonus Tricks. Also the companion gets Devotion, Evasion, Link, and Sharespells.

* Ape (animal)
* Bear, black (animal)
* Bison (animal)
* Boar (animal)
* Cheetah (animal)
* Crocodile (animal)1
* Dire badger
* Dire bat
* Dire weasel
* Leopard (animal)
* Lizard, monitor (animal)
* Shark, Large1 (animal)
* Snake, constrictor (animal)
* Snake, Large viper (animal)
* Wolverine (animal)

7th Level or Higher (Level -6) Gets +2HD, +2 Natural Armor, +1 Strength and Dexterity, and 2 Bonus Tricks. Also the companion gets Evasion, Link, and Sharespells.

* Bear, brown (animal)
* Dire wolverine
* Crocodile, giant (animal)
* Deinonychus (dinosaur)
* Dire ape
* Dire boar
* Dire wolf
* Elasmosaurus1 (dinosaur)
* Lion (animal)
* Rhinoceros (animal)
* Snake, Huge viper (animal)
* Tiger (animal)

10th Level or Higher (Level -9) Gets 1 bonus trick, Link, and Share Spells.

* Bear, polar (animal)
* Dire lion
* Megaraptor (dinosaur)
* Shark, Huge1 (animal)
* Snake, giant constrictor (animal)
* Whale, orca1 (animal)


Question 3: Wild Cohort or the feat that boosts Animal Companion's Effective Druid Level by 3? Which is a better buy? Is it worth it to buy either in the first place?


Handle Animal, you have it as a class skill and if a commoner can abuse it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7097263&postcount=38), something probably can be done with it with some investment in a build. Sort of curious whether Handle Animal can actually offer anything to the repertoire of a PC that's already working with an attack role. One downside I know of right off the bat, even with the ability to get it high enough to affect things that one would like it to while the creatures would still be relevant, is how does one acquire the creature in the first place and the downtime necessary to properly tame it or rear it and train it. On the upside, it's a skill and with the aid of the party, you can break that stuff without necessitating a huge feat investment on your own, potentially anyway. On the downside, replacing them is just as difficult as obtaining them in the first place. Sort of the inverse of the Obtain Familiar route, in that it is potentially the least cost metagame cost but most ingame cost. (ok, so I just ignored keeping the AC and rolling with it)

I believe there was some kind of supplement whose name was bandied around which had prices for various animals in it though like elephants and some of the dinos.

What you can do with it: Bigger question mark than the familiar route.

Questions: Where can I find more information on this that isn't entirely DM dependent, that is to say, written rules on the subject? Can a Ranger pump this enough to get something worthwhile on his own without compromising himself? Can a party pump a check that isn't the entire focus of the build enough to be worthwhile?

Edit: Sorry, got so distracted in writing up the thread I forgot to actually ask the questions I wanted to ask.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-06-12, 06:52 AM
Rangers don't get a familiar, they get an animal companion. A ranger can't even qualify for obtain familiar, since it requires an arcane caster level of 3rd, similar for improved/dragon/etc. familiar.

Wild cohort is in addition to whatever other pets/minions you may have. You can have a familiar, an animal companion, a cohort, and a wild cohort on the same character.

Check out the feat Natural Bond in Complete Adventurer, it adds +3 to your effective level for your animal companion's benefits, though no higher than your character level. A druid with that feat can recruit a stronger 'level -3' companion and it will cancel out the negative. A ranger can take that to improve his animal companion, though it still isn't really worth taking over swapping for an alternate class feature.

Take a look at Eternal Wands in the Magic Item Compendium, and the spell Hound of Doom in Complete Warrior. Anyone capable of casting arcane spells (or with UMD) can use an Eternal Wand regardless of whether the spell is on their class list. A Duskblade or Suel Arcanamach could get an Eternal Wand of Hound of Doom for a fairly powerful companion that scales as they level up.

Cogidubnus
2010-06-12, 07:32 AM
Dragon Cohort feat or one level in Dragon Lancer from F and K's Tomes, if they're allowed.

Coidzor
2010-06-12, 08:57 AM
Rangers don't get a familiar, they get an animal companion. A ranger can't even qualify for obtain familiar, since it requires an arcane caster level of 3rd, similar for improved/dragon/etc. familiar.

Wild cohort is in addition to whatever other pets/minions you may have. You can have a familiar, an animal companion, a cohort, and a wild cohort on the same character. Yeah, I know that, I wasn't very clear though, sorry about that. Forgot about the extremely niche bit about familiars too. Should probably have just tried to find that old thread again to leave lay that bit to rest.



Check out the feat Natural Bond in Complete Adventurer, it adds +3 to your effective level for your animal companion's benefits, though no higher than your character level. A druid with that feat can recruit a stronger 'level -3' companion and it will cancel out the negative. A ranger can take that to improve his animal companion, though it still isn't really worth taking over swapping for an alternate class feature. So what do you think of trading Animal Companion for something else and taking Wild Cohort?


Take a look at Eternal Wands in the Magic Item Compendium, and the spell Hound of Doom in Complete Warrior. Anyone capable of casting arcane spells (or with UMD) can use an Eternal Wand regardless of whether the spell is on their class list. A Duskblade or Suel Arcanamach could get an Eternal Wand of Hound of Doom for a fairly powerful companion that scales as they level up.

Oh, wow, that's... pretty sweet, actually. Never heard of that before at all. Or... really knew there were spells in Complete Warrior. x.x So any arcane spell can be made into an eternal wand AND anyone who can cast arcane spells can use 'em, I forgot about that first bit. I guess I sorta defaulted to assuming that only wizard/sorcerer spells could be Eternal Wanded for some strange reason.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-06-12, 06:05 PM
Question 3: Wild Cohort or the feat that boosts Animal Companion's Effective Druid Level by 3? Which is a better buy? Is it worth it to buy either in the first place?Do you really want to know? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142554)