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View Full Version : Help me evaluate this prestige class;Warrior of the Eldritch Flame(3.5)



PersonMan
2010-06-12, 06:16 PM
Alright, a friend of mine made this class for his brother to use, and several people in the group have voiced...doubts about its balance. So, I'm asking the Playground for their opinion.


Warrior of the Eldritch Flame

{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Eldritch Flame, Warlock Caster Level, Flaming Weapons

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Fire Resist 5, Blast +1d6

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Fiery Blast

4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Fire Resist 10, Blast +2d6

5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Fire Shield

6th|+6|+5|+2|+2|Fire Resist 15, Blast +3d6

7th|+7|+5|+2|+2|Fire Cone

8th|+8|+6|+2|+2|Fire Resist 20, Blast +4d6

9th|+9|+6|+3|+3|Fireball

10th|+10|+7|+3|+3|Fiery Mastery, Inferno, Blast +5d6

[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8

Class Skills:
"As warlock and fighter"-posting later
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier

Prerequisites:
Eldritch Blast 3d6
Proficiency with at least one martial or exotic weapon
Hideous Blow Invocation

Eldritch Flame: A Warrior of the Eldritch Flame can deal fire damage with his Eldritch Blast.

Flaming Weapons: A Warrior of the Eldritch Flame can imbue his weapon(s) with fire at will as a standard action, and it burns for as long as the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame holds the weapon. The weapon deals extra fire damage equal to half his normal Eldritch Blast damage (half a d6 is +2). This does not stack with hideous blow, or with an Eldritch Glaive.

Warlock Caster Level: Levels in this class stack with warlock levels to determine caster level for invocations. This does not increase eldritch blast damage, only the effective caster level for invocations. It does not let the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame learn new invocations.

Blast: A Warrior of the Eldritch Flame’s Eldritch blast damage increases.
Fire Resistance: Warriors of the Eldritch Flame learn not to burn themselves.
Fiery blast: As a Blast Shape Invocation, a Warrior of the Eldritch Flame can turn his eldritch blast into a 45 foot line of fire. This cannot be combined with an Eldritch Essence.

Fire Shield: A Warrior of the Eldritch Flame can use Fire Shield (as the spell, warm shield only) as an invocation. This is usable a number of times per day equal to half of the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame’s charisma modifier.

Fire Cone: As a Blast Shape invocation, a Warrior of the Eldritch Flame can turn his eldritch blast into a 30 foot cone of fire. This cannot be combined with an Eldritch Essence.

Fireball: As a Blast Shape invocation, a Warrior of the Eldritch Flame can turn his Eldritch Blast into a 20 foot burst of fire with a 60 foot range. This cannot be combined with an Eldritch Essence.

Fiery Mastery: At 10th level, a Warrior of the Eldritch Flame gains Spell Resistance 10+Character level against fire spells. Any fire spell successfully resisted is turned back upon its caster as if by spell turning. In the case of an area spell, the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame is not affected, and the caster is affected as if he was in the area.

Inferno: At 10th level, a Warrior of the Eldritch Flame learns to unleash all of his magical power at once, creating a massive roaring inferno. This ability has a range of 200 feet and affects a 80 foot high cylinder with a 40 foot radius and does 30d6 points of damage. Half of this damage is fire damage, and half results directly from magical power and is not subject to fire resistance. If the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame centers it on himself, he takes no damage from it. However, using this ability comes at a terrible price. The Warrior of the Eldritch Flame expends all his power when using this ability, losing his Warlock powers and becomes fatigued until he gets 8 hours of rest.

Jota
2010-06-12, 06:46 PM
This is not overpowered at all compared to the warlock. If anything, losing out on Dark and some Greater invocations probably makes this weaker than the base warlock.

A few points of clarification, however, and maybe some advice:

1. For starters, I'm not sure what exactly you mean when you say "(half a d6 is +2)" (I'm assuming this means a 3d6 eldritch blast translates to 1d6+2 fire damage, but I'm not certain). I'd making it (flaming weapons) a swift action as it's not really that potent of an ability. You'll probably be doing most of your damage with the help of Metamagic SLA feats, so this needs to be improved to have any relevance. I'd also suggest extending it to allies' weapons for every two levels beyond the first (so one ally at third, two at fifth, etc.), though if you do that you may want to keep it as a standard action.

2. Do you area of effect eldritch shapes offer saves for half damage?

3. What is the duration of inferno? Instantaneous, x rounds, what? As before, save for half? If not, probably worth mentioning it.

4. You might consider advancing invocations a bit... I could see this advancing invocations on 5 to 7 of the ten levels and still being fairly balanced. It would be more powerful than the base warlock in that it gets full BAB, but the area of effect abilities really aren't a whole lot to write home about, and there's not too much in here aside from those.

Milskidasith
2010-06-12, 07:26 PM
Inferno isn't worth losing all your class features for it. It's... OK blasting, but basically being useless for it is nova-ing for far less than you'd get in a few rounds, let alone a day.

jiriku
2010-06-13, 02:11 AM
Yah, unimpressive. The abilities are actually really similar to what regular warlocks can do anyhow, and having your invocation progression replaced with a limited set of blast shapes greatly restricts your flexibility. No balance worries here.

PId6
2010-06-13, 02:42 AM
Too weak. This really needs an actual invoking progression, at least 5/10 (though I'd say 8/10 is more appropriate). Also, make the Fire Shield invocation last 24 hours and not be limited in how often you can use it. It's not that great anyway, and it's an invocation; that's how they're supposed to work.

Ilmryn
2010-06-13, 02:17 PM
Ok, I am the creator of this class, my friend posted it for me because i didn't have an account set up yet.
A few clarifications on the abilities.
1. Half damage from eldritch blast does mean that 3d6 becomes 1d6+2, 4d6 becomes 2d6, 5d6 becomes 2d6+2, etc. Also on Metamagic SLA feats; they should be usable on this as if it was any other invocation.
2.The area effect blast shapes should allow reflex saves, I forgot to put this in the first version. The DC is 10+class level+Cha mod.
3.The inferno is instantaneous, but does not allow a save. I think i will change the damage to 4 times normal eldritch blast damage instead of a flat 30d6.
4.I don't think i will advance evocations from the warlock class, the purpose of this class is to change the flavor to a fire using warrior. Maybe a few other invocations specific to this class may be in order. Any suggestions?
5.I will probably change the fire shield to at will use. Also, the player from this class wants to get fire immunity from it. Is this a too powerful abilty to add?

PId6
2010-06-13, 04:05 PM
4.I don't think i will advance evocations from the warlock class, the purpose of this class is to change the flavor to a fire using warrior. Maybe a few other invocations specific to this class may be in order. Any suggestions?
An invocation to create an area of lingering fire that deals damage each round (kinda like Wall of Perilous Flames but smaller area). Another invocation that lets you teleport into nearby fires (Swift action would be best here). This makes for a pretty fun combination.


5.I will probably change the fire shield to at will use. Also, the player from this class wants to get fire immunity from it. Is this a too powerful abilty to add?
No, not in the least.

Ilmryn
2010-06-13, 06:19 PM
I will probably create an overhaul for the class using an invocation system.

PId6
2010-06-13, 06:37 PM
Also, forgot to point out that Hideous Blow is, well... hideous. There's a far better alternative for melee warlocks in Dragon Magic, Eldritch Glaive.

Ilmryn
2010-06-13, 08:02 PM
Here is the overhaul of the class.

Requirements
• Eldritch Blast 3d6
• Proficiency with at least one martial or exotic weapon
• Hideous Blow Invocation

For some reason I can't get the table into the post.

Class Features
Hit Die: d8
Skill Points: 2+Int, class skills are as warlock and fighter
Eldritch Flame: A Warrior of the Eldritch Flame can deal fire damage with his Eldritch Blast. He must do so in order to use any of his Warrior of the Eldritch Flame invocations.
Flaming Weapons: A 1st level Warrior of the Eldritch Flame can imbue his weapon(s) with fire at will as a standard action, and it burns for as long as the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame holds the weapon. The weapon deals extra fire damage equal to half his normal Eldritch Blast damage (half a d6 is +2). This does not stack with hideous blow, or with an Eldritch Glaive.
Invoking: Levels in this class stack with warlock levels to determine caster level and Eldritch Blast damage. However, the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame learns invocations from a special list. He cannot select normal Warlock invocations unless he takes more Warlock levels.
Fire Resistance: Warriors of the Eldritch Flame learn not to burn themselves. He gains fire resistance 5 at level 2, 10 at level 4, 15 at level 6, and 20 at level 8.
Bonus Invocations: The Warrior of the Eldritch Flame learns an extra invocation of any grade he can use at 3rd, 5th and 7th level.
Flameturning: A 9th level Warrior of the Eldritch Flame gains Flameturning 10+Character level. This works in the same way as Spell Resistance, but against any fire attack. Any fire attack successfully resisted is turned back upon its caster as if by spell turning. In the case of an area attack, the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame is not affected, and the user is affected as if he was in the area. The rest of the area attack works normally.
Inferno: At 10th level, a Warrior of the Eldritch Flame learns to unleash all of his magical power at once, creating a massive roaring inferno. This ability has a range of 200 feet and affects an 80 foot high cylinder with a 40 foot radius and does damage equal to four times the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame’s Eldritch Blast damage. Half of this damage is fire damage and half results directly from magical power and is not subject to fire resistance. If the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame centers it on himself, he takes no damage from it. However, using this ability comes at a terrible price. The Warrior of the Eldritch Flame expends all his power when using this ability, losing his Warlock powers and becomes fatigued until he gets 8 hours of rest. It allows a DC(10+class level+ cha mod) Reflex save for half damage, but evasion does not apply to this effect, and Improved evasion has the effect of normal evasion against it. The effect is instantaneous.
Continuing Invocations: A 10th level Warrior of the Eldritch Flame who gains further Warlock levels can select Invocations from the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame list.

Invocations
Lesser Invocations:
Brimstone Blast: As the Warlock invocation.
Fiery Blast: As a Blast Shape Invocation, a Warrior of the Eldritch Flame can turn his eldritch blast into a 45 foot line of fire. This cannot be combined with an Eldritch Essence other than Brimstone Blast. It allows a Reflex save for half damage. SLE 3
Fire Shield: As the spell, warm shield only. SLE3
Scorching Ground: The ground is covered by flames in up to a number of touching squares equal to half the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame’s caster level (max 10). Anyone standing in one of these squares takes damage equal to half the Warrior of the Eldritch Flame’s eldritch blast damage on each round (Reflex half). This effect lasts for one round per caster level. SLE 3
Eldritch Chain: As the Invocation.
Greater Invocations:
Fire Cone: As a Blast Shape invocation, a Warrior of the Eldritch Flame can turn his eldritch blast into a 30 foot cone of fire. This cannot be combined with an Eldritch Essence other than Brimstone Blast. It allows a Reflex save for half damage. SLE 5
Fireball: As a Blast Shape invocation, a Warrior of the Eldritch Flame can turn his Eldritch Blast into a 20 foot burst of fire with a 60 foot range. This cannot be combined with an Eldritch Essence other than Brimstone Blast. It allows a Reflex save for half damage. SLE 5
Wall of Perilous Flame: As the Invocation.
Conjured Fireblast: As Brimstone Blast, but not subject to Spell Resistance. SLE 6
Share Fireweapon: The Warrior of the Eldritch Flame’s Flaming weapons affect the weapons of his allies as well as his own while this invocation is active. The Warrior of the Eldritch Flame cannot use his Eldritch Blast or Invocations while this effect is active.
Dark Invocations:
Chain Fireball: This invocation chains as the eldritch chain invocation, but a Fireball Invocation effect is centered on each creature struck. The secondary hits deal half damage as normal. A creature cannot be struck more than once by this invocation. The targets hit by the blast do not get a save, but the creatures that are only caught in the bursts get a reflex save for half damage. SLE 9
Flame Swarm: As the invocation Dark Discorporation, but the swarm attack does fire damage instead of normal damage. You gain immunity to fire and vulnerability to cold while in Flame Swarm form. SLE 8
Fire Immunity: When you invoke this evocation, you gain immunity to fire for 24 hours. You can only use this on yourself.


Also, when I said I was concerned about game balance, I meant balance with published prestiege classes from WotC dnd supplements. Those classes seem slightly less powerful than the average homebrew on this forum.

Knaight
2010-06-13, 08:07 PM
The class in the opening post is unimpressive, the revamped one is about where it needs to be, assuming medium BAB. That said, I would probably try to manage all of this as some new invocations (not many, blast shape and the fire eldritch essence cover most attacks already), and an alternate class feature or two, instead of a prestige class.

The mage
2010-06-15, 05:58 PM
I will probably create an overhaul for the class using an invocation system.

Ok, it better not be too bad (I'm player of prestige class)

The mage
2010-06-15, 06:00 PM
The class in the opening post is unimpressive, the revamped one is about where it needs to be, assuming medium BAB. That said, I would probably try to manage all of this as some new invocations (not many, blast shape and the fire eldritch essence cover most attacks already), and an alternate class feature or two, instead of a prestige class.

Its actually full BAB