Help me evaluate this race; Mystic Elf(3.5)

[PersonMan]

Mystic Elf
Mystic Elves are an offshoot of wood elves that have a natural tendency towards innate magic. Most members of the subrace have some kind of magical talent. They are more charismatic than other elves, and humans find them more attractive, but they are prone to overconfidence and tend not to think things through. Like the wood elves they are closely related to, they have high strength, but aren’t as smart as other elves.

Racial Traits
+2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis
Medium
Base speed 30 ft.
Low-light vision
No racial weapon proficiency. Mystic elves don’t have the martial bent other elves have.
+2 to Spellcraft. Mystic elves have a natural talent for magic.
Immune to sleep, but no save bonus against enchantments. Mystic elves tend to be susceptible to magic.
Talents: A Mystic Elf knows 2 level 0 spells it can use as spell-like abilities once per day. These spells represent the natural talent for magic Mystic Elves possess. The actual spells vary.
Mystic Elves do not have the keen senses other elves do.
Automatic Languages: Common and Elven
Favored Classes: Sorcerer and Warlock. Mystic elves often have the innate talent for magic that these classes possess. A Mystic Elf Warlock’s power often comes from fey sources.

This is a race made by a friend of mine he wants evaluated.

[Milskidasith]

It's bad. It has -con, which is bad on any class, -2 int, which is annoying for skill prerequisites, and -2 wis, which is a point off will saves (not bad, but not great) in exchange for +2 to cha (dump stat), +2 str (dump stat for casters) and +2 dex (Not bad).

In short, even a sorcerer, the favored class for this, would lose out by taking it; they'd lose their limited skill points and their limited HP in exchange for a bit of charisma and decent strength.

It *could* be powerful if the +s actually added up and the -s weren't stuff everybody uses to some degree, but it's not. It's not good enough to be 0 LA, and it also goes against the normal design intent of one positive stat and one negative.

[DMBlackhart]

The first suggestion that comes to mind, make the 2 0-level spells at will. Or, since im probably phrasing that wrong, can be used all day all the time (still has to be activated of course).

Therefore not a MAJOR boon, but still helps you get towards a more balanced position.

(as it stands it is less beneficial then even human, which is at least in my opinion, the lamest race out there mechanics wise)

[Milskidasith]

The first suggestion that comes to mind, make the 2 0-level spells at will. Or, since im probably phrasing that wrong, can be used all day all the time (still has to be activated of course).

Therefore not a MAJOR boon, but still helps you get towards a more balanced position.

(as it stands it is less beneficial then even human, which is at least in my opinion, the lamest race out there mechanics wise)

Humans are quite possibly the best race in core, and out of core only strongheart halflings are as versatile and applicable to all builds. While sometimes you want more stats, the free feat is great on any character. If you really think a few +1s you can buy are worth feats that can't be bought at all, you should rethink your position.

[PersonMan]

It's bad. It has -con, which is bad on any class, -2 int, which is annoying for skill prerequisites, and -2 wis, which is a point off will saves (not bad, but not great) in exchange for +2 to cha (dump stat), +2 str (dump stat for casters) and +2 dex (Not bad).

In short, even a sorcerer, the favored class for this, would lose out by taking it; they'd lose their limited skill points and their limited HP in exchange for a bit of charisma and decent strength.

It *could* be powerful if the +s actually added up and the -s weren't stuff everybody uses to some degree, but it's not. It's not good enough to be 0 LA, and it also goes against the normal design intent of one positive stat and one negative.

Yeah, I thought that the odd bonus/penalty placements made the race sort of...difficult to work with, as well.

[Milskidasith]

Yeah, I thought that the odd bonus/penalty placements made the race sort of...difficult to work with, as well.

The way the abilities work makes it almost impossible for it to be better than a flat out +0 to all stats, no benefits race. It's not so much difficult as it is impossible, unless you are, say, building a gish that doesn't need HP for some reason, but even then, it's not as good as a race that doesn't have -2 con.

[Stompy]

So, it is more or less a wood elf with an additional -2 wis, +2 cha, and some minor advantages and disadvantages. I can't see a good reason to be worried the class, because well, spellscales have around the same feel about them and have the +2 cha this offers over wood elf (and the -2 con as well).

Does it get the keen senses of a high elf? You never addressed that. (It seems like they would also should get a racial +2 to UMD as well.)

And in regards to Milskidaseth: Well, it has the -2 con because it is an elf. getting rid of that would require a complete reflavoring. I feel that the -2 con is obligatory. (Also, this class prefers classes that aren't in melee. :smallsmile:)

[Milskidasith]

So, it is more or less a wood elf with an additional -2 wis, +2 cha, and some minor advantages and disadvantages. I can't see a good reason to be worried the class, because well, spellscales have around the same feel about them and have the +2 cha this offers over wood elf (and the -2 con as well).

Does it get the keen senses of a high elf? You never addressed that. (It seems like they would also should get a racial +2 to UMD as well.)

And in regards to Milskidaseth: Well, it has the -2 con because it is an elf. getting rid of that would require a complete reflavoring. I feel that the -2 con is obligatory.

-2 con is why all elves are bad. They are only useful for chaos shuffling away the ton of bonus feats they get that are otherwise worthless.

[PersonMan]

Does it get the keen senses of a high elf? You never addressed that. (It seems like they would also should get a racial +2 to UMD as well.)

Well, of course I never addressed that. This isn't my race

Anyways:


Mystic Elves do not have the keen senses other elves do.

[deuxhero]

It's bad. It has -con, which is bad on any class, -2 int, which is annoying for skill prerequisites, and -2 wis, which is a point off will saves (not bad, but not great) in exchange for +2 to cha (dump stat), +2 str (dump stat for casters) and +2 dex (Not bad).

In short, even a sorcerer, the favored class for this, would lose out by taking it; they'd lose their limited skill points and their limited HP in exchange for a bit of charisma and decent strength.

It *could* be powerful if the +s actually added up and the -s weren't stuff everybody uses to some degree, but it's not. It's not good enough to be 0 LA, and it also goes against the normal design intent of one positive stat and one negative.

Plus it's an Elf and and with the fluff "natural talent".

[PId6]

The stats are very good for Soradins. +2 Str means 11 Str is enough. +2 Dex is useful. +2 Cha is awesome. -2 Int don't care. -2 Wis don't care (Will save will be through the roof anyway). -2 Con is painful, but the other stats make up for it. It's decent for Suel Arcanamach builds and Bardsaders for the same reason, though the -Con matters more there.

It has a decently useful niche.

[Milskidasith]

The stats are very good for Soradins. +2 Str means 11 Str is enough. +2 Dex is useful. +2 Cha is awesome. -2 Int don't care. -2 Wis don't care (Will save will be through the roof anyway). -2 Con is painful, but the other stats make up for it. It's decent for Suel Arcanamach builds and Bardsaders for the same reason, though the -Con matters more there.

It has a decently useful niche.

If you're heavy on the paladin, you need more than 13 strength, if you're heavy on the sorc, you don't need strength at all, and +2 dex is pretty useless in heavy armor. If I wanted a sorcadin, I'd pick a race that gets decent stats without a penalty to a major and two minor stats in exchange for buffing one major, one minor, and a useless stat. For example:

Lesser Aasimar.
Many dwarf subraces (+2 con for -2 dex isn't bad)
Human

[Eloi]

Remove the negative impact to stats and bump the LA to +1. That should fix a lot of the balance issues. Also, why would the be more weak to magic if they're more proficient in it? That doesn't make much sense.

[sigurd]

Reduced wisdom makes no sense in a mystic race.

Modifying every stat is just rude.

There's no imaginative spark.


Mystic Elves

Mystic Elves

+2 Wis -2 Str.
+1 Init. Mystic elves have an innate sense of the future.
A mystic elf must choose either elf sword or bow to be their bonus proficiency.
Medium size, Medium Build, He's a medium after all.
Mystic Elves that reach the "Old" category stop aging and may live forever in this form.
+1 Skill point per level.
+2 Climb, Stealth
Low light Vision.
Must sleep 4 hrs a night.
Langs: Elvish, may choose sylvan as a bonus language, + other forest languages.
Preferred class is Shaman or Druid
Its missing something for pathfinder.

Some say Mystic Elves are not really elves. They are creatures of the forest who have been made to look like elves. Elven communities are accepting of them but mystic elves keep many of their own traditions and are accorded a degree of separation from the rest of eleven society.