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View Full Version : Best 3rd Level and Lower Spells [3.5, Advice]



RelentlessImp
2010-06-12, 07:31 PM
So, I've got a character in the works; a Sorcerer/Mindbender/Recaster. The Recaster gets an ability to add two spells to their spells known from any class list, and I'm curious as to what spells should be used for those two abilities.

The only real problem is both spells need to be 3rd level or lower, as the first time I'll be getting that class ability is at Sorcerer 7, and the second is at Sorcerer 9.

Currently, my spell list looks like this:
0th: acid splash, arcane mark, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mending, prestidigitation, read magic
1st: charm person, feather fall, mage armor, magic missile, shield
2nd: baleful transposition, glitterdust, wings of cover
3rd: manyjaws, shivering touch
4th: greater mirror image

And a Runestaff that provides access to phantom steed, shrink item, enlarge person and reduce person 3/day, as well as rope trick 1/day.

I'm not really sure where I'm going with my spells at the moment; right now I'd like to have some blasting capability, some BFC, and anything, ANYTHING but buffs (unless those buffs scale hard).

Any suggestions?

Protecar
2010-06-12, 07:36 PM
Do you have any fondness for rays? I know you said no buffs, but what about DEbuffs? :smalltongue:

Seriously, a Ray of Enfeeblement is a nice level 1 spell. Also, I like the idea of Ray of Clumsiness(haven't actually had a chance to use it in a game).

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-12, 07:38 PM
Enjoy (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spellLists.htm) I suggest looking at pseudo-caster list, they sometimes have higher level spells at a lowe spell level.

RelentlessImp
2010-06-12, 07:38 PM
Do you have any fondness for rays? I know you said no buffs, but what about DEbuffs? :smalltongue:

Seriously, a Ray of Enfeeblement is a nice level 1 spell. Also, I like the idea of Ray of Clumsiness.

As nice as it is, I've done the Ray-based caster before. I kind of want to steer away from slipping into my old habits (I've already given in to one urge - that of dipping Mindbender 1) and do something different this time.

Optimystik
2010-06-12, 07:39 PM
Sorcerer's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2180.0)
The Mailman Build (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)

There are great low-level spells in these.

RelentlessImp
2010-06-12, 07:42 PM
Sorcerer's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2180.0)
The Mailman Build (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)

There are great low-level spells in these.

Those are Sorcerer-specific guides. I'm looking for non-Sor/Wiz spells to take full advantage of the "pick ANY SPELL THAT EXISTS" class feature.

TheThan
2010-06-12, 07:45 PM
1st
Grease
Mage armor
Identify
Charm person
Sleep

2nd
glitterdust
Web
See invisibility
Invisibility
Alter self
Bullís strength
Knock
Rope trick

3rd
Dispel magic
Deep slumber
Heroism
Hold person
Ray of exhaustion
Fly
Blink
Gaseous form
Slow

4th
Black tentacles
Dimension door
Solid fog
Charm monster
Enervation
Polymorph
Stone shape

PId6
2010-06-12, 07:48 PM
Definitely going to suggest waiting a level with another PrC before going into Recaster. You'd much rather get higher level better spells with Expanded Knowledge. I'd wait even for levels for some great higher level spells, but that's up to you.

2nd:

Barkskin (PHB) - Nice defensive spell
Divine Insight (SpC) - Useful for skill checks

3rd:

Anyspell (SpC) - Very versatile if you can swing it
Blindsight (SpC) - Nice detection spell
Glibness (PHB) - Great, great spell
Metamagic Item (ECS) - Awesome if you're allowed

4th:

Divine Power (PHB) - Gish-in-a-spell
Last Breath (SpC) - Fun and great in Contingencies

5th:

Surge of Fortune (CC) - Worth waiting for

7th:

Giant Size (CA) - Very worth waiting for

Beorn080
2010-06-12, 07:48 PM
Might I suggest Charm Monster and perhaps Glibness from the bard list? Charm Monster is always a fun spell, and Glibness, what with your Sorc Charisma, will let you Bluff your heart out, so between the two, you can charm and bluff anything under the sun. I know you said no buffs, but Glibness is on of those buffs that is just fun.

Edit: I missed the non Sorc/wiz spell part. Perhaps not charm monster then. Maybe something like Snare then. I'm not really sure. I don't have much other then the SRD at the moment.

RelentlessImp
2010-06-12, 07:54 PM
Definitely going to suggest waiting a level with another PrC before going into Recaster. You'd much rather get higher level better spells with Expanded Knowledge. I'd wait even for levels for some great higher level spells, but that's up to you.

Unfortunately, Recaster fits the character, and I've already stretched my resources to the limit dipping Mindbender, so there's not a lot I could dip into again so I could pick up at least a 4th level spell with the second Expanded Knowledge.



Glibness (PHB) - Great, great spell


FFFFFFFFFF... I forgot that Glibness was 3rd. I thought it was Bard 6. That's the first one for sure, because if there's any social intrigue I'm using my Minor Shape Change to create disguises and Glibness to bluff my heart out.

Milskidasith
2010-06-12, 07:55 PM
Wings of Cover is pretty good.

Optimystik
2010-06-12, 07:58 PM
Those are Sorcerer-specific guides. I'm looking for non-Sor/Wiz spells to take full advantage of the "pick ANY SPELL THAT EXISTS" class feature.

So read the handbooks for other classes, it's not hard.

RelentlessImp
2010-06-12, 08:01 PM
So read the handbooks for other classes, it's not hard.

Unfortunately, such handbooks either A: Only cover the PHB, or B: Only mention a handful of spells that apply to what that build's doing and/or boost what that build's good at.

Not exactly great for perusing spell lists, to be honest.

Solo's guide, for instance (I <3 his Sorc guide) mentions a now-defunct spell critique list, and only covers PHB spells. The Mailman guide only mentions Blasty spells and Arcane Fusion/GAF.

PId6
2010-06-12, 08:02 PM
Unfortunately, Recaster fits the character, and I've already stretched my resources to the limit dipping Mindbender, so there's not a lot I could dip into again so I could pick up at least a 4th level spell with the second Expanded Knowledge.
Try Ruathar (RotW). The requirements are literally the easiest in the game.

SurlySeraph
2010-06-12, 08:22 PM
You can get Haste as a 1st-level spell from the Trapsmith spell list (I know you don't want buffs, but first-level Haste!), or Cure Moderate Wounds as 1st-level and Cure Serious Wounds as 3rd-level from the Runescarred Berserker list.

I'd probably go with Manyjaws and Wings of Cover myself, but I like straightforward spells.

PId6
2010-06-12, 08:25 PM
I'd probably go with Manyjaws and Wings of Cover myself, but I like straightforward spells.
Those are already Sorcerer spells though. The advantage of Recaster is letting you branch out.

SurlySeraph
2010-06-12, 08:32 PM
Gah, I thought he was a Wizard and so couldn't get Wings of Cover. And I'm not sure what I was thinking with Manyjaws. Well, that 1st-level Haste I mentioned can be awfully useful.

RelentlessImp
2010-06-12, 08:49 PM
You can get Haste as a 1st-level spell from the Trapsmith spell list (I know you don't want buffs, but first-level Haste!), or Cure Moderate Wounds as 1st-level and Cure Serious Wounds as 3rd-level from the Runescarred Berserker list.


O.O

...1st-level Haste is going into my second use of EK. Sorcerers get so many first level spells so quickly that it's going to be ridiculous.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-06-13, 12:23 AM
If you get strong spells at a lower spell level such as 1st level Haste, or anything from the Telflammar Shadowlord spell list (http://www.spelldb.com/showSpell.php?class=158), be sure to pick up a Circlet of Rapid Casting from MIC.

If you want to further expand your spells known, consider taking a (non-native) bloodline feat (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf) (page 112+).

Mongoose87
2010-06-13, 12:39 AM
Try Ruathar (RotW). The requirements are literally the easiest in the game.

I second this motion.

Keld Denar
2010-06-13, 12:40 AM
If you can delay to get a 4th level spell, and you want a decent spell, check out Moon Bolt from the SpC. 1d4 Str damage per 3 CLs. Undead struck must instead will save or be struck helpless for 1d4 rounds.

Let me say that again...1d4 Str damage per 3 CLs.

Use your Recaster ability to slap a free Empower on there, and you are gonna make someone's day VERY unpleasant.

Oh, and it can hit up to 2 targets, assuming they are standing within 15' of each other. Still, its strong enough that even if you COULD only hit one foe, it would be worth the action.

Optimystik
2010-06-13, 12:36 PM
Unfortunately, such handbooks either A: Only cover the PHB, or B: Only mention a handful of spells that apply to what that build's doing and/or boost what that build's good at.

Not exactly great for perusing spell lists, to be honest.


Are we reading the same handbooks?
Post 4 of the Cleric Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0) has spell suggestions for each spell level, and I see great suggestions from Spell Compendium, Lords of Madness and even Lost Empires of Faerun.

Ernir
2010-06-13, 12:50 PM
Darkbolt! 5th level on the Darkness domain list, but 3rd level on the already linked Telflammar Shadowlord list. Mmmm.

Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) to make the Rogue cry. (Or leap in joy, as you cast it on him.)

Favour of the Martyr, if you can stretch it into getting 4th level spells with Recaster. Doubly so if you are going to cast Celerity. :smalltongue:

true_shinken
2010-06-13, 01:03 PM
You can get Haste and Dispel Magic at level 1 from Trapsmith's list.
Since you have a few touch spells, Knight's Move (Cleric 2) might help you (and your fellow Rogue won't he sad about it at all).
The Bite of X series might also seem interesting. Too bad Sirine's Grace is so high in level, it would be a very good spell for you.

Beorn080
2010-06-13, 01:10 PM
I recall once, seeing a guide for a divine class, that was effectively a wizard divine caster, who got his spells at the level the class he scribes them got it.

Ah, the Archivist. Here is a list of the lowest level divine spells possible, here

http://web.archive.org/web/20080502024859/forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=515321

Girallonís Blessing
An extra set of arms is always handy for the party fighter.

Hague
2010-06-13, 03:20 PM
Ring of Blades is a decent "Get away from me!" attack. It has the potential of dealing 11-16 damage on everything around you with no saving throw. It counts as a silvered, magic, slashing weapon for damage resistance. It's a 3rd level Cleric/Warmage spell.

Sandblast is a 10 ft burst 1st level druid spell that deals 1d6 non-lethal damage. The bonus is that it stuns anyone in the area that fails its reflex save. Heighten it for better results.

The Scent spell is a great utility spell. Scent is an oft-overlooked ability and can provide a valuable tool. 2nd level druid, 1st level ranger. Lasts 10 minutes per caster level.

Greenish
2010-06-13, 03:32 PM
Entangle is a great battlefield control spell. Level 1, huge area, long duration, Save every turn and suck even if you pass the save.

Spike Growth might be interesting with right Metamagic. Large area, duration measured in hours, 1d4 damage for every 5' that the enemy moves, halved movement speed if you fail a ref save you likewise have to make for each 5' you move. No save for the damage, and Fell Draining Spike Growth is only 4th level spell. :smalltongue:

dextercorvia
2010-06-13, 03:34 PM
Everything is better with Fell Drain.

Greenish
2010-06-13, 03:37 PM
Everything is better with Fell Drain.Negative level for every 5' you move. The spell has an area of 400 square feet (16 squares) per caster level. No save.

Beorn080
2010-06-13, 03:53 PM
Yet another way to start the Wightopcolypse. Cast it at every small village you come across while flying around. Hmm, I could see a crazy druid doing that.

Druid: Well, Wights don't eat plants, so turning every animal into a wight would save my precious trees.

dextercorvia
2010-06-13, 04:06 PM
I'm a big fan of Mnemonic Enhancer and Mage's Lucubration, if you can put it off until you can get 4th level spells. Ruathar is a great suggestion for that, btw.