Fanfic.net community/forums?

[Arakune]

I mean... WTH? I knew the fanfic writers community where legendary on it focus and quality, but even the communities and forums? Really?

Don't know if it's the adequate place, but what are your thoughts on that place?

[Sneak]

Um...what? Why? Huh? :smallconfused:

[Ravens_cry]

I tried writing fan fiction but. . .I just couldn't do it.
Fan fiction is like ordering a mighty pizza, enjoying the mighty fine pizza, then vomiting in the pizza box and giving it to someone else as pizza. It may contain large amounts of Pizza. It may have been inspired by pizza. But it's not pizza.
That been said, I read a mighty fine Dr. Who fan webcomic by the same guy who does Yet Another Fantasy Webcomic. But I don't watch Dr. Who. I know the basics. Daleks are Evil semi-robots who want to "Exterminate!" and kill people with plungers. The Doctor. is an alien who time travels in police box who turns into different people when he dies *cough* regenerates, and has companions who travel with him. But other then that, I have little preconceptions or knowledge other then its legendarily campy special effects.
It's mighty fine pizza.
Yes, I am aware of the hypocrisy.

[Arakune]

Um...what? Why? Huh? :smallconfused:

To clarify, fan fiction in general is subject to sturgeon's law (90% of internet is junk) on all possible levels: writing, premise, themes, grammar (for native and non-native speakers), believing Teen ratings means Mature Audiences only...

But I didn't knew, at least in the fanfic.net site, that even the communities and forums sections where subject to this.

[Closak]

It's true, 90% (Or more) of all fanfics are crap.

But damn, when you finally do find one of the good ones it can make for darn fine reading.

And for some reason, i seem to have a knack for finding the good ones.

Kinda funny how one of those fics is a self-insert of all things.
I have no idea how the author managed to pull that off with a respectable amount of quality, let alone turn it into one of the few that i actually bother reading more than once.

But yes, you have to wade through a lot of crap to find those nuggets of gold.

[Eloi]

I'm a part of the community and write fan fiction for a lot of fandoms. Its mostly action-adventure with a dash of horror, but I've gotten mostly favorable reviews. I've also written a parody of SoBadItsHorrible fan fics, got its own TV Trope page.

[Deca]

The Fanfiction community is a decent place. I've churned out a few fanfics at that site myself. It's because I'm hopelessly addicted to crossover fics.


I I've also written a parody of SoBadItsHorrible fan fics, got its own TV Trope page.

Sounds nice. What fandom?

[FoE]

I can write it, but I can't read it.

[Eloi]

Sounds nice. What fandom?

Yu-Gi-Oh because its easy to parody and I'm fairly familiar with it (been on the 'Abridged forums, and watched the Abridged series, I'm afraid to say I actually liked it unironically but that was eight or seven years ago.)

[Lord Seth]

I don't really bother much with fanfiction.net after they banned script format.

[Terry576]

A list of my favorite fanfics of ALL TIME:

Return To The Homeland, Sort Of (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1498752/1/Return_To_The_Homeland_Sort_Of) - Crossover Between FFT and FFTA. Marche is Ramza's avatar on earth. It's freaking AWESOME.

Meet The Reaper (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4926371/1/Meet_the_Reaper) - A short one about how Death would react to meeting the characters of Death Note.

Mutant Web (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2702345/1/Mutant_Web) - A crossover between X-Men Evolution and Spiderman.

Yeah. I'm a total geek.

[molten_dragon]

I read fanfiction on a fairly regular basis (mostly Harry Potter, a bit of other fandoms here and there from time to time). There are some definite diamonds in the rough out there if you are willing to hunt for them. Occasionally even better than the original works.

[Eloi]

I don't really bother much with fanfiction.net after they banned script format.

"That's kind of easy to write around." said Al.
"Yeah you can kind of just move around the punctuation and there isn't much difference, really." said Yankovic.
"Self-demonstration is also kind of fun." said Al.
"As is lampshade hanging." said Yankovic.
"Wow, you just lampshade hung lampshade hanging." said Al.
"You just lampshaded me lampshading hanging your lampshade." said Yankovic.
"That's decidedly meta." said Al.

[Deca]

The crossover fics are crazy.
For instance, I think I saw a fic where Sarge from RvB took over as Defense Against the Dark Arts Teacher for Hogwarts. The mind boggles as to who in their right mind would write that.

[Eloi]

The crossover fics are crazy.
For instance, I think I saw a fic where Sarge from RvB took over as Defense Against the Dark Arts Teacher for Hogwarts. The mind boggles as to who in their right mind would write that.

I mixed Lord of the Rings with an anime about hamsters. (Used extensive references to Quenya and the hamster language established in the video game series. ...Don't ask.)
Anything is possible in crossovers.

[Tavar]

There are some definite diamonds in the rough out there if you are willing to hunt for them. Occasionally even better than the original works.
Oh, definitely this. I mean, there are some really interesting Bleach fics out there, and they easily eclipse the original in terms of writing quality.


The crossover fics are crazy.
For instance, I think I saw a fic where Sarge from RvB took over as Defense Against the Dark Arts Teacher for Hogwarts. The mind boggles as to who in their right mind would write that.
Ah, crackfics.

Still, some crossover stuff is really interesting. Some have pretty natural crosses(DrWho/Firefly, for example), some are more out there(Avatar the Last Airbender/Stargate), to the down right bizzare(Stargate/Bleach...).

[Samurai Jill]

I mixed Lord of the Rings with an anime about hamsters. (Used extensive references to Quenya and the hamster language established in the video game series. ...Don't ask.)
Anything is possible in crossovers.



...I think I've just erected a mental block. ...Where was I for the past ten minutes?

[Tavar]

Probably looking randomly through FF.net's crossover listings, which can be very, very harmful to your mental health. Please, leave this to the experts.

[Eloi]

Oh, definitely this. I mean, there are some really interesting Bleach fics out there, and they easily eclipse the original in terms of writing quality.


Ah, crackfics.

Still, some crossover stuff is really interesting. Some have pretty natural crosses(DrWho/Firefly, for example), some are more out there(Avatar the Last Airbender/Stargate), to the down right bizzare(Stargate/Bleach...).

And you don't find Hamtaro/The Hobbit a bizzare combination?

[Tavar]

Oh, it's bizzare all right, but it might not be a crack fic, and I haven't read it so I can't really judge it.

Oh, and to anyone who's read Bleach, I'd suggest Uninvited Guests (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3505858/33/Uninvited_Guests). It makes fun of the entire Bleach world, and a lot of the genre as a whole.

[Eloi]

Oh, it's bizzare all right, but it might not be a crack fic, and I haven't read it so I can't really judge it.

Its called "The Lamnincë" and a quick google search with those exact terms will get you right there. The name means 'animal' and '-incë' is a diminutive ending to suggest its a different kind of animal from the standard, that is a smaller kind. There was no set word for 'Hamster', sue me. I also drew upon the Hobbit dictionaries as well as the Quenya appendixes for names, and drew extensively from the Ham-Ham Dictionary from the video game, which I completed (eheh, again, don't ask why I 100% completed a game just to get words for one fanfic) and thus...yeah, pretty pointless, but I had fun linguistically with it.

[Lord Seth]

"That's kind of easy to write around." said Al.
"Yeah you can kind of just move around the punctuation and there isn't much difference, really." said Yankovic.
"Self-demonstration is also kind of fun." said Al.
"As is lampshade hanging." said Yankovic.
"Wow, you just lampshade hung lampshade hanging." said Al.
"You just lampshaded me lampshading hanging your lampshade." said Yankovic.
"That's decidedly meta." said Al.That also looks extremely awkward and doesn't change how dumb the ban is.

On the issue of good fan fiction, I cannot recommend The Unity Saga (http://sfdebris.com/unity.asp) (a Star Wars/Star Trek story) enough.

[Tavar]

Why did they ban those, any way. I understand song fics can loosely be constructed as copyright infringement, and in any case, I'm not really saddened by their banning as I've never much cared for them. But why script fics?

[Eloi]

Why did they ban those, any way. I understand song fics can loosely be constructed as copyright infringement, and in any case, I'm not really saddened by their banning as I've never much cared for them. But why script fics?

Because script format give opportunity to be lazy with description, and serves no purpose because you probably aren't going to have a play/movie of your fanfic.

[Cobalt]

I've actually read a really. Really. Really. Good fanfic. The author disappears for years at a time, but whenever he shows up, a masterpiece is made.

The Angel and the Slayer (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2677545/1/The_Angel_and_the_Slayer), by TheOneAndOnlyT (http://www.fanfiction.net/u/469900/TheOneAndOnlyT).

I don't care how limited your know-how of Golden Sun is. I don't care if you're not a fan of that pairing. Read it. Now. 463 reviews, and not a single one is negative. The people have spoken. Hop to it.

...

That wasn't a request. Click that link and call up whoever you were planning to spend the next two hours with the bad news that they have to find someone else to waste time with. You have a fanfic to read, good sir.

[Grumman]

I've actually read a really. Really. Really. Good fanfic. The author disappears for years at a time, but whenever he shows up, a masterpiece is made.

The Angel and the Slayer (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2677545/1/The_Angel_and_the_Slayer), by TheOneAndOnlyT (http://www.fanfiction.net/u/469900/TheOneAndOnlyT).
Does it get better after the first chapter? I tried to read through it, but I instead developed an urge to slap the author and his characters. Reading a story about two characters abusing ellipses as they flirt with each other for chapters on end is not my idea of a good time.

Tiberium Wars (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3654039/1/Tiberium_Wars), by Peptuck, is more my style. You see where Nod terrorists take the initiative and starts a war against the GDI? That's called plot. I don't mean to alarm you, but plot tends to happen in stories.

[Tavar]

Tiberium Wars (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3654039/1/Tiberium_Wars), by Peptuck, is more my style. You see where Nod terrorists take the initiative and starts a war against the GDI? That's called plot. I don't mean to alarm you, but plot tends to happen in stories.

That's actually one of the key factors I use to judge whether or not to keep reading a story. Well, after the basics(was the little teaser thing spelled correctly, does the story use good spelling and grammar). If the plot doesn't start showing itself after the first 2-3 chapters(depending on chapter length), then I generally drop it.

The two exceptions are drabble collections, which I only read if I've read other works by the author, and crackfics. The latter...well, you don't watch sketch comedy for the overarching plots. Same here.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Rorschach's blot (http://www.fanfiction.net/u/686093/Rorschachs_Blot) and Nonjon (http://www.fanfiction.net/u/649528/nonjon)

Then again, 95% + of all fanfiction is utter crap, see 'my immortal'.

[Lord Raziere]

eh, I would write fan fics myself but....eh...didn't feel like it.

my ideas for them would be:

three different outcomes of Lelouch dying: two serious, one humorous.
the first one would be Lelouch genuinely trying to kill himself- but soon finds out that he is immortal and that the Consciousness of Humanity didn't like it when he commanded it to kill his parents.
in the second he would be really faking his own death and be immortal from taking his father's code and would watching world in secret and serving as a sort of guardian from evil.
the third humorous one is Lelouch trying the thing above, but he accidentally wakes up in the middle of his funeral for everyone to see and hilarity ensues.

somehow switching Ranma and Sasuke from Naruto so that they end up in each others world, with Sasuke having to deal with Ranma's crazyness thus learning not to be such a brooding jerk, while Ranma has to learn to
be a team player and be a little more humble

Edward from FMA somehow ending up in the Code Geass universe, awesomeness ensues.

Gundam technology somehow ending up in the FMA universe Fullmetal Gundam awesomeness ensues.

TTGL and NGE somehow meet each other. hilarity ensues.

a pure Naruto fan fic about a "Village Hidden in Shadow" that would basically be a deconstruction of Naruto ex: village gov. is oppressive and evil, protagonists would be rebelling against it rather than obeying it etc.

[Deca]

Then again, 95% + of all fanfiction is utter crap, see 'my immortal'.

My Immortal hardly counts as it was pretty obviously a trollfic. It does however serve a great purpose as a torture device. The way it breaks the captives will is phenomenal. I have collected several fics for this explicit purpose.

[Lord Seth]

Because script format give opportunity to be lazy with description,So does prose. So does any format.


and serves no purpose because you probably aren't going to have a play/movie of your fanfic.Why does it serve no purpose?

[Tavar]

Does 95% serve any purpose? Or id the percentage even higher?

[Eloi]

What's with all the %%%%ing percentages? Anyway.


Why does it serve no purpose?

Because you probably aren't going to have a play/movie of your fanfic, so no actors will read over your script, thus there is no reason to put stage directions or a script format at all.

[Lord Seth]

Because you probably aren't going to have a play/movie of your fanfic, so no actors will read over your script, thus there is no reason to put stage directions or a script format at all.That's like saying "there's no reason to use prose format, because your fanfic isn't going to be published in a book or anything." It doesn't make sense. Furthermore, it's still no reason as to why it should be banned outright.

[John Cribati]

That's like saying "there's no reason to use prose format, because your fanfic isn't going to be published in a book or anything." It doesn't make sense. Furthermore, it's still no reason as to why it should be banned outright.

But people are still going to read it, even if it's not in a book. Script format is mainly for use if people are going to act the story out. And if you think your no-name (figuratively speaking, though I have seen a few stories named "Untitled" in my day) story on a fan website is going to be good enough that people will use it as a play, that seems the tiniest bit pretentious, y'know? In any case, I will note that I used to write dialogue (and only dialogue) in script format so as to avoid the "she said," But I grew out of it. I find it a bit off now, anyway.


I tried writing fan fiction but. . .I just couldn't do it.
Fan fiction is like ordering a mighty pizza, enjoying the mighty fine pizza, then vomiting in the pizza box and giving it to someone else as pizza. It may contain large amounts of Pizza. It may have been inspired by pizza. But it's not pizza.

I don't see it that way. I think fanfic is more like ordering the pizza with the intent to make a similar one, using a few of the ingredients and adding your own. Sure, it won't be the same as the pizza you ordered, but if you have enough of the ingredients, it'll be similar enough. The quality of your pizza is in the ingredients you add to it, for better or worse.

[Eloi]

I don't see it that way. I think fanfic is more like ordering the pizza with the intent to make a similar one, using a few of the ingredients and adding your own. Sure, it won't be the same as the pizza you ordered, but if you have enough of the ingredients, it'll be similar enough. The quality of your pizza is in the ingredients you add to it, for better or worse.
Alternatively its like a very large group liking a certain pizza-place, than decide to start cooking their own pizza for their friends but not industrially. Some of this large group are very good at it, and some get hired by that pizza-place. Most suck but everyone has fun liking and hanging out at the same pizza-place.

[Lord Seth]

But people are still going to read it, even if it's not in a book. Script format is mainly for use if people are going to act the story out. And if you think your no-name (figuratively speaking, though I have seen a few stories named "Untitled" in my day) story on a fan website is going to be good enough that people will use it as a play, that seems the tiniest bit pretentious, y'know?Why do you assume that people in script format are expecting someone else is going to do that? Throwing out the word "pretentious" seems a bit egregious.

And I still haven't seen any valid reason whatsoever as to why it should be outright banned.

[Eloi]

Why do you assume that people in script format are expecting someone else is going to do that? Throwing out the word "pretentious" seems a bit egregious. (Take a drink TV Tropes fans)

Because the entire point of scripts is to be performed. If they won't be, no need to waste precious bandwidth on them.

[Tavar]

Because the entire point of scripts is to be performed. If they won't be, no need to waste precious bandwidth on them.

Actually, scripts can be read, too. In fact, doing so can be a very enjoyable activity, as the flow and methods used are different from writing standard prose.

[Eloi]

Actually, scripts can be read, too. In fact, doing so can be a very enjoyable activity, as the flow and methods used are different from writing standard prose.

Reading scripts not performed is boring for me personally, like Shakespeare is very boring not being acted out, so I guess its a personal preference. And I guess one of the higher ups had my opinion and banned them.

[John Cribati]

Besides, script format is pretty lazy, and even more awkward. Look at this:

Bob: *bends over and picks up a rock [Yells Angrily] Get away from her!

versus

"Get away from her!" Bob yelled. In his rage, he scooped up a rock from the ground and hurled it with all his might."

Script format just tells you what they do. Prose tells you how it's done.

[Tavar]

Reading scripts not performed is boring for me personally, like Shakespeare is very boring not being acted out, so I guess its a personal preference. And I guess one of the higher ups had my opinion and banned them.

Right. It's someone dictating to others what they can and can't enjoy, which always goes over so well...

[RabbitHoleLost]

I am incredibly picky about my fanfiction. Incredibly.
Proper grammar, characters acting true to their nature, no original characters, etc.
It was great when I was reading Labyrinth FF, since it seems like almost all of them were done very well indeed, but my current fandom is full of awfulness.

And that was your almost out of the blue post by Rabbit, folks.

[Lord Seth]

Because the entire point of scripts is to be performed.The entire point of scripts for plays or TV shows or movies, yes. That's not inherently the point of script format. I've read (and written) plenty of fan fiction that I can tell you right now would not work as well if converted to prose. I've also read stuff in prose that I think would work better if it were in script.


If they won't be, no need to waste precious bandwidth on them.If the argument is "they're a waste of space" (which is dubious in the first place) then there's far more important things fanfiction.net should be cracking down on than script format.


Besides, script format is pretty lazy, and even more awkward. Look at this:

Bob: *bends over and picks up a rock [Yells Angrily] Get away from her!

versus

"Get away from her!" Bob yelled. In his rage, he scooped up a rock from the ground and hurled it with all his might."

Script format just tells you what they do. Prose tells you how it's done.That particular example is indeed a case where prose would work better. And there are certainly many cases where prose would function far better than script. But taking an example deliberately designed to prove your point and treating it as if it embodies everything is a bit fallacious. It's like comparing the House of the Dead video games and movies and concluding that because the video games were decent but the movies were bad, video games are better than movies.

[Eloi]

Right. You're dictating to others what they can and can't enjoy, which always goes over so well...

Well of course. But I do believe I'm allowed to have an opinion no matter how wrong or stupid it is. Thus, I think they were justified in banning script format, encouraging prose I do believe is a great idea.


The entire point of scripts for plays or TV shows or movies, yes. That's not inherently the point of script format. I've read (and written) plenty of fan fiction that I can tell you right now would not work as well if converted to prose. I've also read stuff in prose that I think would work better if it were in script.
I haven't thus I have no reliable experiences to draw upon in that respect.

If the argument is "they're a waste of space" (which is dubious in the first place) then there's far more important things fanfiction.net should be cracking down on than script format.
They can only ban what's unambiguous. Script format is unambiguous, easily-bannable. Bad fan fiction is a much murkier category, hard to ban and control.

[Lord Seth]

They can only ban what's unambiguous. Script format is unambiguous, easily-bannable. Bad fan fiction is a much murkier category, hard to ban and control.But you really haven't given any reason for the ban other than "well I don't like reading script format" which is a pretty awful argument for actually banning it. I don't like slash but I'm not advocating that fanfiction.net actually ban it.

[Zencao]

To whomever said "It's not going to be published" really needs to learn the definition of 'published' because by putting it on fanfiction.net you ARE publishing it.

Screenplays are made for the screen, prose is made to be read. Fanfiction.net was made as a place to read fanfiction, it makes sense that they ban script format. If you want to post or read scripts, go to a website other than fanfiction.net. No matter how you look at it, reading scripts is not how the format is meant to be used. If you're so lazy that you want to write fanfiction without writing it, then use the epistolery format.

Songfics are much the same, songs are made to be heard not read. There's no ban against poemfics or the like, because they are made to be read.

[Tavar]

In that case, I guess the staff responsible fall into my "too close-minded for their own good". Others falling into this category are the wikipedia mods who run the periodic purges of "trivial" matter.

[Zencao]

In that case, I guess the staff responsible fall into my "too close-minded for their own good". Others falling into this category are the wikipedia mods who run the periodic purges of "trivial" matter.

Except for the fact that you wouldn't call a book shop that didn't sell DVD's closed minded.

It's fanfiction.net, not fanscripts.net. There are plenty of other places you can post your stuff, or are you mad that they won't let people piggy back off the sites popularity?

[Tavar]

Ah, but scripts can be sold as books. And, in fact, are found in Library in the book sections. Thus do I say bullocks to your argument. Additionally, scripts can fall under the heading of fiction, and the ones in question are written by fans. Thus, your attempted definition doesn't make sense. Unless you are saying that the actual websites name is FanProse, in which case I would have to support your argument.

Oh, and nice ad hominem there. No, I'm not mad, as I don't post there. But just because a policy doesn't impact me doesn't mean I won't call it stupid if I think it is.

[Zencao]

Ah, but scripts can be sold as books. And, in fact, are found in Library in the book sections. Thus do I say bullocks to your argument. Additionally, scripts can fall under the heading of fiction, and the ones in question are written by fans. Thus, your attempted definition doesn't make sense. Unless you are saying that the actual websites name is FanProse, in which case I would have to support your argument.

Oh, and nice ad hominem there. No, I'm not mad, as I don't post there. But just because a policy doesn't impact me doesn't mean I won't call it stupid if I think it is.

Scripts can be books in the same way that prose stories can be scrolls. And in hindsight reffering to prose as 'books' is a bit archaic since this all takes place on digital media.

Either way it does not change the fact that scripts are meant to be performed. A script can be written down so as to be recalled when no troop or group wishes to perform it, but this is a secondary purpose and it's main purpose lies in it's performance.

The website is meant for the READING of fiction, and therefore accepts only things that are MEANT to be read. To expect it to accept scripts is silly, and one can hardly fault them for it. It's like expecting them to accept videos, as video performances are 'fiction' are they not? Made by fans are they not? Yet they are not displayed because the site is based on READING.

If the site was meant for fanwork of any kind then it would include that of any kind. But it accepts only things that are to be read for a reason.

[Lord Seth]

Either way it does not change the fact that scripts are meant to be performed.I've been seeing this claim a lot but not really seeing any backing. "Script format is never meant to be used for reading!" According to what? I'll admit that's true about scripts specifically written for TV shows or movies (though they often get published anyway), but that applies to those specific scripts, not the format itself.

And in fact, the format I've seen in almost all "script fics" isn't the format you'd see on a screenplay or movie script or play script, so the argument that the format can only be used for those things seems to fall flat anyway.


The website is meant for the READING of fiction, and therefore accepts only things that are MEANT to be read.And something that's written down for people to read isn't meant to be read? If I write something in script format and put it on the Internet--and I have, plenty of times--it's meant for people to read. Deciding that it somehow isn't meant to be read, even though it is, doesn't make sense.


To expect it to accept scripts is silly, and one can hardly fault them for it.As mentioned before, referring to them as "scripts" is a bit fallacious as they're really not so much scripts as they are in "script format" (which as pointed out, isn't the format used for actual scripts).


It's like expecting them to accept videos, as video performances are 'fiction' are they not? Made by fans are they not? Yet they are not displayed because the site is based on READING.Well, there's also the fact that videos take up a whole lot more space than a story that's just written in alphanumeric symbols as well as the fact the medium is different. Script format is words. Prose format is words. Videos are audio-visual.

[Zencao]

I've been seeing this claim a lot but not really seeing any backing. "Script format is never meant to be used for reading!" According to what? I'll admit that's true about scripts specifically written for TV shows or movies (though they often get published anyway), but that applies to those specific scripts, not the format itself.

And in fact, the format I've seen in almost all "script fics" isn't the format you'd see on a screenplay or movie script or play script, so the argument that the format can only be used for those things seems to fall flat anyway.

And something that's written down for people to read isn't meant to be read? If I write something in script format and put it on the Internet--and I have, plenty of times--it's meant for people to read. Deciding that it somehow isn't meant to be read, even though it is, doesn't make sense.

As mentioned before, referring to them as "scripts" is a bit fallacious as they're really not so much scripts as they are in "script format" (which as pointed out, isn't the format used for actual scripts).

Well, there's also the fact that videos take up a whole lot more space than a story that's just written in alphanumeric symbols as well as the fact the medium is different. Script format is words. Prose format is words. Videos are audio-visual.

Not a whole lot of evidence for 'script format' only being used for movies/tv/plays? How about the fact that ALL proffessional scripts are made for that? The only ones that aren't are... Fanfiction. No-one wrote scripts until plays were invented, and no-one wrote scripts except for those plays. Then plays became broadcast, and movie and t.v. scripts were born, and the rest is history.

You can write down a song, does that mean songs are meant to be read? You can write down a speach, does that mean it's meant to be read and not spoken?

And regardless of space, the argument that 'Scripts are still fanfiction' is just as valid for 'video's are still fanfiction' yet you have no problem accepting that they don't want to host them. Text documents still take up space, however small. If they don't want scripts, they don't have to take them. For the same reason you gave that they don't have to take video's, they don't want to use up the brandwidth on stuff the site isn't meant for.

And yes, for something to be 'script format' it is written as a script, it may be written unproffesionally and badly, but it is still a script. You can't 'write a peom in novel format' you're writing a novel. You can do it badly, but it's still a novel. The same goes for scripts.

Scripts are by design, to be performed. If you script isn't meant to be performed, then it isn't a script, it's awkwardly written prose.

And as mentioned above, scripts are an objective format. And scripts written down to be read are (as mentioned above), simply awkwardly written prose and therefore CAN be banned wholesale. Scripts not written to be read don't belong on the site, so either way it doesn't belong there.

I personally don't see why one would write in script format if it wasn't meant to be performed. The whole thing is designed for that, so it would only be shooting yourself in the foot to try and use it as a reading format.

The whole argument is moot either way because FF.net is a privately owned site and can do what it wants. One can't say that them only hosting what they want is 'closed minded' as much as one can say that giantitp.com is 'closed minded' for not hosting everyone elses webcomics.

[Lord Seth]

Not a whole lot of evidence for 'script format' only being used for movies/tv/plays? How about the fact that ALL proffessional scripts are made for that? The only ones that aren't are... Fanfiction.I've read this multiple times and I still can't figure out what point you're trying to make. Yes, all professional scripts are written for movies/TV/plays...that's the definition of a professional script. Whenever did anyone say these were professionals? They're amateurs. They're not trying to sell these works as a professional would. Nothing wrong with that.


Then plays became broadcast, and movie and t.v. scripts were born, and the rest is history.I'm looking at this and I'm not seeing anything other than an appeal to tradition, which is a logical fallacy. In fact, your entire argument appears to be based almost completely on that fallacy. (not to mention that reading the scripts can be pretty interesting in their own right)


You can write down a song, does that mean songs are meant to be read? You can write down a speach, does that mean it's meant to be read and not spoken?These seem to be false analogies to me. When a speech or song is written, it's been written to be sung or spoken. But that doesn't mean that something being written like a song is inherently bad or something being written like a speech is bad. Characters certainly give plenty of speeches in prose.


And regardless of space, the argument that 'Scripts are still fanfiction' is just as valid for 'video's are still fanfiction' yet you have no problem accepting that they don't want to host them.Actually, now that I've taken the time to pull the dictionaries out, all three of the ones I consulted (dictionary.com, m-w.com, and my computer's dictionary) define fan fiction as written. So the term "fan fiction" is indeed considered to be limited to written works. Fan videos are called...um...fan videos, not fan fiction. As I noted earlier, however, both prose and script use the exact same medium: Words. Videos are a completely different medium. Trying to bring up videos is even more of a false analogy than the song/speech one.


And yes, for something to be 'script format' it is written as a script, it may be written unproffesionally and badly, but it is still a script.Well you're clearly already being biased from the start what with "unprofessionally and badly" note, but I'm afraid you're still making the same point I've already addressed, in that it's written like a video script (though as I've noted before, the formats are actually different--though I did write one fan fiction once in authentic screenplay format as a stylistic choice), but isn't itself a video script. You keep insisting that the script format is inherently a script and thus inherently is not meant to be read, which is again an appeal to tradition. It seems like arguing that all comedies should be multi-camera because single-cameras should be reserved for dramas.


You can't 'write a peom in novel format' you're writing a novel. You can do it badly, but it's still a novel. The same goes for scripts.Okay then, how would you write a poem in novel format, even badly? I'm curious. It seems the two are completely antithetical to one another, like something simultaneously being in color and in black-and-white. This doesn't even seem to have anything to do with the point of contention.


I personally don't see why one would write in script format if it wasn't meant to be performed. The whole thing is designed for that, so it would only be shooting yourself in the foot to try and use it as a reading format.Now, I'm certainly not saying script is always better. I've seen some script stories (not necessarily fan fiction) that completely lost me because script did not fit the story at all. Script usually works best for comedy stories, especially of the more zany variety, as it fits the timing a lot better than prose does. Also, if you're parodying a movie or a TV show in-universe (e.g. an Apprentice parody where Bowser is trying to find someone to become his assistant--yeah, there was an actual one of those, and it was pretty good), it can better mimic the experience of watching one and thus work better than prose. And honestly, I think it's pretty hard for an MST of another fanfic to work well at all if the commentary isn't in script.


The whole argument is moot either way because FF.net is a privately owned site and can do what it wants.Just because a company or group can "do what it wants" doesn't mean it doing something stupid isn't doing something stupid nor that someone can't point out it's doing something stupid as a critique.

[Arakune]

This discussion took a very weird turn :smallconfused:

Any tips on how to properly search for good works in the site? The lack of a good search/ratting engine makes it difficult to find.

[Grumman]

Any tips on how to properly search for good works in the site? The lack of a good search/ratting engine makes it difficult to find.
What sort of things are you looking for?

[Tavar]

Tvtropes Fanfic recommendation page is a decent rescource. As is the Fan Fiction listing, though for that you need to read the entires. Some pages are made for good ones, some for So bad it's good, some for So bad it's horrible. They generally say which it falls into in the first couple lines..

[chiasaur11]

Just tossing more fuel on the fire.

Some folks like reading Shakespeare more than seeing him performed (Eg. C.S. Lewis)

I checked the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead script out of the library. Good read.

And the best fanfic is Doom repercussions of evil. The best crossover fanfic is Marathon the Chilron.

[Arakune]

Tvtropes Fanfic recommendation page is a decent rescource. As is the Fan Fiction listing, though for that you need to read the entires. Some pages are made for good ones, some for So bad it's good, some for So bad it's horrible. They generally say which it falls into in the first couple lines..

Well, some of them are misleading (different preferences) and the list is quite small for the amount of works in some categories like DBZ that have more than 30.000 entries and only a handful make the list in the index.

Too bad most of the works also take a long time to be posted. Some of then started at 2006 and are still running with nowhere close to reaching an ending anything soon.

Edit: Others, while good, have too much "lemon" in it it's difficult to continue. Good thing some authors agree with me and take that off, for instance The Second Try.

[Tavar]

True. Another option is to find an author that you like, and go through their favorite stories/author lists.

[chiasaur11]

Of course, there's also the problem of the rare good stuff abruptly ending in the middle more often than with professional work.

Just thinking here.

[Arakune]

That's a problem too. And differently from Japan, you can't really publish your works because the problems with piracy, the japanese doesn't have much against derivative work, only against scan from originals.

[The Tygre]

I've always had a love-hate relationship with any given fandom. Mostly hate;

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj240/TheTygre/TotheLastBreath.jpg

Which is to say, I myself am a fan fic writer. The Pit changes a man.

[Eloi]

Of course, there's also the problem of the rare good stuff abruptly ending in the middle more often than with professional work.

Just thinking here.

Guilty! I start up a story, and am totally psyched about it, and I almost never, I think I can count about three stories I've done with, ever fi

[Xzeno]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, I'm just asking questions (honest!).

Isn't fanfiction, um, plagiarism? Isn't it stealing someone else's work, in whole or in part, without his or her express permission?

[Lord Seth]

Of course, there's also the problem of the rare good stuff abruptly ending in the middle more often than with professional work.

Just thinking here.That's another problem. I wish fanfiction.net had some clear way of seeing if a story was finished or not; some kind of marker. Granted, some people might write "one-shot" or "in-progress" or "completed" in the story description, but it's not a toggleable or required thing. A Mario fan site that I used to spend a lot of time at had a lot of fan fiction, and one thing I liked was that the ones in-progress had "Not Completed" next to them, so if you were really gung-ho about not wanting to read something that isn't done you'd know to avoid them. Though there was at least one guy who wrote a series of stories, and while the stories themselves were individually completed, there were a lot of unfinished plot points that I assume he was going to continue in a sequel but he didn't submit another, leaving them unfinished. A shame, he was one of my favorite authors.

[Eloi]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, I'm just asking questions (honest!).

Isn't fanfiction, um, plagiarism? Isn't it stealing someone else's work, in whole or in part, without his or her express permission?

No, plagiarism would be copying the exact wording or material of someone else's work and publishing it as your own. Since exact wording nor the exact material is being used, its not classified as 'plagiarism' but as 'murky copyright status'. However since no profit is being made, most authors/companies are supportive of fanfiction.

[Tavar]

That's another problem. I wish fanfiction.net had some clear way of seeing if a story was finished or not; some kind of marker.
Last time I checked, it does. And you can toggle it in the search options.

[PhoeKun]

I've read this multiple times and I still can't figure out what point you're trying to make. Yes, all professional scripts are written for movies/TV/plays...that's the definition of a professional script. Whenever did anyone say these were professionals? They're amateurs. They're not trying to sell these works as a professional would. Nothing wrong with that.

Exactly right. And I don't know why there would be anything wrong with writing a script that was never going to be acted out. This would invalidate the efforts of everyone who's ever written a script and failed to get a production made from it, and everyone who's ever written an original screenplay for their own entertainment (*waves*). And if you accept that those people should have their efforts invalidated because scripts are so unworthy of being read instead of seen, do you then reject everything else that didn't fill the lofty requirements of professional standards?

Should a poem never be written in a private notebook? Are most NaNo writers wasting their time writing those novels with no intent to publish? By extension, is it a waste of your time to read one of those, if it's shown to you? Should the designer of a card game be banned from a game design website because video games sell better?

I don't understand what's so inherently evil about reading scripts that would justify their blanket ban from a website that is, ostensibly, about writing (and reading).



Okay then, how would you write a poem in novel format, even badly? I'm curious. It seems the two are completely antithetical to one another, like something simultaneously being in color and in black-and-white. This doesn't even seem to have anything to do with the point of contention.

Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, Virgil's Aeneid, and The Divine Comedy of Dante Allegheni all spring to mind as examples of poems written in a novel format. Patience, Pearl, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, or anything ever written by Marie de France would be examples of poems written in short story format.

No, it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, but there you are.


Just tossing more fuel on the fire.

Some folks like reading Shakespeare more than seeing him performed (Eg. C.S. Lewis)

More than that. From The Comedy of Errors, Act 3 Scene 2 -


And may it be that you have quite forgot
A husband's office? shall, Antipholus.
Even in the spring of love, thy love-springs rot?
Shall love, in building, grow so ruinous?
If you did wed my sister for her wealth,
Then for her wealth's sake use her with more kindness:
Or if you like elsewhere, do it by stealth;
Muffle your false love with some show of blindness:
Let not my sister read it in your eye;
Be not thy tongue thy own shame's orator;
Look sweet, be fair, become disloyalty;
Apparel vice like virtue's harbinger;
Bear a fair presence, though your heart be tainted;
Teach sin the carriage of a holy saint;
Be secret-false: what need she be acquainted?
What simple thief brags of his own attaint?
'Tis double wrong, to truant with your bed
And let her read it in thy looks at board:
Shame hath a bastard fame, well managed;
Ill deeds are doubled with an evil word.
Alas, poor women! make us but believe,
Being compact of credit, that you love us;
Though others have the arm, show us the sleeve;
We in your motion turn and you may move us.
Then, gentle brother, get you in again;
Comfort my sister, cheer her, call her wife:
'Tis holy sport to be a little vain,
When the sweet breath of flattery conquers strife.


Sweet mistress--what your name is else, I know not,
Nor by what wonder you do hit of mine,--
Less in your knowledge and your grace you show not
Than our earth's wonder, more than earth divine.
Teach me, dear creature, how to think and speak;
Lay open to my earthy-gross conceit,
Smother'd in errors, feeble, shallow, weak,
The folded meaning of your words' deceit.
Against my soul's pure truth why labour you
To make it wander in an unknown field?
Are you a god? would you create me new?
Transform me then, and to your power I'll yield.
But if that I am I, then well I know
Your weeping sister is no wife of mine,
Nor to her bed no homage do I owe
Far more, far more to you do I decline.
O, train me not, sweet mermaid, with thy note,
To drown me in thy sister's flood of tears:
Sing, siren, for thyself and I will dote:
Spread o'er the silver waves thy golden hairs,
And as a bed I'll take them and there lie,
And in that glorious supposition think
He gains by death that hath such means to die:
Let Love, being light, be drowned if she sink!

Shakespearean scripts were written with the intention of being read, yo.

[Lord Seth]

Last time I checked, it does. And you can toggle it in the search options.Huh, didn't see that. Well don't I feel stupid. I just glanced at the lists of the stories and didn't see it, but didn't bother to look at the drop-down menus, as one lets you choose whether to see in-progress or completed ones.

Also, I missed this originally:

Isn't fanfiction, um, plagiarism? Isn't it stealing someone else's work, in whole or in part, without his or her express permission?You're mixing up plagiarism with copyright. Plagiarism is taking someone else's ideas or quotes and not giving them credit. Fan fiction by definition is not plagiarism of the original source for the simple fact that you're clearly giving credit to it. Unless, of course, you're trying to pass off your fan fiction as something that isn't fan fiction (that is, writing a fan fiction and claiming everything, including the characters, is your own original work) but that would be laughably see-through. Plagiarism itself can be a bit murky--in fiction particular it's arguable where the line between "inspired by" and "plagiarized from" begins and ends, but the bottom line is that fan fiction is not plagiarism of the original source. It's possible to plagiarize from another fan fiction or a different source, but by definition you are not plagiarizing from the original source.

The issue is one of copyright, or rather copyright infringement. After all, if you write, say, a Harry Potter fanfic, you're using copyrighted characters. Well, there's a useful little thing in copyright law called Fair Use. It basically says that under certain circumstances, copyright infringement is perfectly legal. For example, the review program At the Movies would show clips of movies, which is copyright infringement, but because it's being used for review purposes (as well as only being small snippets from the movie) it's certainly Fair Use. Unfortunately, Fair Use is also one of the most confusing and murky concepts ever, so barring a direct court ruling it's tough to say for sure whether something is Fair Use or not. I'd say that fan fiction does seem to be Fair Use (provided it's not being used for profit...selling fan fiction is a completely different ball game because Fair Use is less protective for commercial things), but I'm certainly no lawyer so take that for what it's worth. Fan videos are a different story, though; that seems more a pretty case-by-case basis to me.

Of course, in a way, it's only illegal copyright infringement if you get called on it. Fan fiction is so ubiquitous (not to mention not really a threat to profits) that very few companies or authors actually bother to try to stop it, due to the difficulty in doing so, the negative press that would probably result, and the fact that it's really not hurting anything at all (unless you try to sell it, in which case the chances of them taking measures against you goes up drastically). Meaning until a company or author or whoever the copyright holder is tries to take steps against fan fiction (either in general or against a specific one), it's de facto Fair Use.

[Eloi]

^ Not trying to be rude, that's a really awesome description of that, but I didn't already say all that but shorter?

[Lord Seth]

^ Not trying to be rude, that's a really awesome description of that, but I didn't already say all that but shorter?Yeah, but I thought a more in-depth explanation might be good to add.

[Tavar]

Technically, some groups are down on Fan Fiction for very valid reasons. One author actually lost control of part of his/her writing, due to a successful lawsuit brought by a "Fanfic" writer.

[Eloi]

Yeah, but I thought a more in-depth explanation might be good to add.

Mm, okay, sorry to but in.

[chiasaur11]

Technically, some groups are down on Fan Fiction for very valid reasons. One author actually lost control of part of his/her writing, due to a successful lawsuit brought by a "Fanfic" writer.

Oh?

Sounds like a story. Care to give details?

[Tavar]

I head about the story on TvTropes, on the fanfic page. Here's what Wikipedia says about it:

For many years, Bradley actively encouraged Darkover fan fiction and reprinted some of it in commercial Darkover anthologies, continuing to encourage submissions from unpublished authors, but this ended after a dispute with a fan over an unpublished Darkover novel of Bradley's that had similarities to some of the fan's stories. As a result, the novel remained unpublished, and Bradley demanded the cessation of all Darkover fan fiction.

[Arakune]

That's quite a problem, specially if the fan fiction author put some original characters in that script.

[Mewtarthio]

I should point out that, in the most credible versions of the story I can find, Bradley had read the fanfiction in question and contacted the author for permission to incorporate the material in her next book. The fan attempted to renegotiate, tensions grew, lawsuits were threatened, etc (accounts differ as to the details: Some have the fan threaten a lawsuit as soon as Bradley contacts her, others have Bradley make the threat when the fan turns down her initial offer). The important thing, though, is that I have not seen credible accounts indicating that Bradley lost the rights to an original idea that happened to be similar to a fanfic. Hence, many authors have a policy of not reading fanfiction of their own works.

[bluewind95]

Hmm... I don't know... I can't really see the banning of script format to be really an overall bad thing for fanfiction.

Thing is... writing prose seems to be, for some reason, more "difficult" than writing script format. There is an element of... well... choosing words wisely, descriptions, actions, how much to reveal and how to do so... while in script format, there are a few less things to worry about, as the important things are mostly dialogue and action.

This is NOT to say that there is more merit in writing prose than scripts, oh, no! Both have their own sets of difficulty, and it is just as hard to write good prose as it is to write a good script. However, it simply seems as though prose is harder, so it makes script format an overwhelmingly attractive medium for novice writers with, sadly, no talent. It is also easier to "hide" a lack of talent in a script format, as the sentences and descriptions are shorter and more to the point. In prose, they tend not to be so blunt. And often, with talent, comes a kind of sophistication in the presentation of a story that is, in my opinion and experience, at least, harder to reproduce in an easily noticeable way in a script format, but is easily seen in prose. It takes more work on the reader's part to recognize a truly good script than it takes to recognize a good prose. Both cases require skill, but one is less forgiving than the other in how it's presented.

Take the following scenario:

"Bob confronted Alice, ignoring, for now, the subtle, yet nauseating smell that filled the room. His face was contorted, not by the stench but by rage, his eyes piercing. Alice shrank back from him.

'Why?!' he demanded.

Instead of answering, Alice's eyes widened, her face grey in fear. Bob smirked. He had done it now: he had scared her and she would confess to the crime. He took a step forward but she didn't even flinch away from him, her eyes fixed in a stare. Something wasn't right... she wasn't even looking at him! That was when he noticed the shadow and realized what the stench he'd been foolishly ignoring was. His smirk vanished, and he felt the goosebumps forming on his neck as he turned around..."

Versus

"Bob: *furious, his face contorted in rage, his gaze piercing as Alice shrinks away from him* Why?!
*a shadow is seen on Alice's face, but Bob, in his rage does not notice*
Alice: *does not answer, fixing her gaze on the huge, rotten monster that is slowly lumbering towards Bob, her eyes widening in panic. She is frozen in place by her terror*
Bob: *smirks, assuming that Alice's terror is due to him. He takes a step forward, noticing that Alice's eyes do not follow, fixed on something else. He takes note of the smell in the room, realizing now what it is. The smirk vanishes, and he turns around*
"

I tried to keep a similar level of detail and so on in both examples, and yeah, I know my writing isn't a great example of skill, but I think it works well enough for what I want to say.

Basically... I think both samples are written with a similar skill level, and both work fine narratively speaking. However, one allowed me to withhold what was behind Bob, while in the other, due to its nature of being a piece that is, perhaps not meant, but still still specialized for, performance, I had to say it's a rotten monster, like a zombie or something like that. The show, don't tell approach... it works great in prose, but not so much in script format. There is a slight problem with the script format as opposed to the prose, though...

"Bob confronted Alice. He didn't pay attention to the rotten smell of the room. He was furious. Alice was scared and moved away from him.

'Why?!' he asked angrily.

Alice didn't answer, looking terrified. Bob thought that he had scared her and smirked. She would confess to the crime. He took a step forward and her eyes didn't move. Something was wrong. He noticed the shadow that was on her face and finally remembered what the smell in the room was. He turned around, feeling scared..."

Versus

"Bob: *furious. Alice moves away from him* Why?!
*A shadow is seen on Alice´s face. Bob doesn't notice it.*
Alice: *does not answer, her eyes fixed on the huge zombie approaching Bob*
Bob: *smirks, thinking he scared Alice. He takes a step forward, but her eyes don't move. He remembers what the smell was and turns around, scared.*
"

Again, both are written in a similar level. Both work fine. But the lack of description and, well, anything, really, on the first piece is a lot more noticeable than in the second. Enough action or characterization will make the second readable, but not the first. No matter the premise, no matter the action or dialogue, the first will simply look... bland. The second one can get away with blandness provided the premise is good.

However, there are those gems in which the premise is good, the characters are good, and the writing isn't at all bland. I have had the pleasure of reading one such gem, written by a fellow Playgrounder. And man, it proves scripts can be every bit as good as prose. I could tell it took skill. But while the good ones are there, the bad ones are a bit easier to slip past the radar.

And that is the problem with script fanfics, I think... and I think that I wouldn't be the only one holding such a view. The worst pieces of fiction I have seen have been written in script format, and this is no fault of the format on its own, but rather of the writers who think that just because it is script, it needs less effort, and the readers who don't give enough constructive criticism, and the writers who take any criticism personally. It's a bit more complicated than just the format.

But by banning the format, I think, it helps encourage writers to actually put in effort into their stories (again, not the fault of the format, but of the people who mistakenly think that because it's script, then it *needs* no effort). It is a shame that those writers who take the format seriously have to suffer because of the many, many writers who don't, though.

... That was a tad long. I hope I was kind of clear in explaining myself there.

[Eloi]

*bunch of true stuff

Took the words right out of me, I agree completely.

[Closak]

...I just had to share this little fic i found a while back :smalltongue:

Behold the Final Fantasy Dissida crack!

It started out innocently enough. Or, rather, as innocently as it can get with a group of villains. It was a frustratingly peaceful time, when nobody had any plans of killing innocent people, destroying the world, or even fighting their mortal enemies. Various sharp and pointy implements hung on a wall, forgotten for the time being. Right now, action was stilled and nothing was being done.

Naturally, this has an adverse effect on a room filled with psychopaths, egomaniacs, and general all-around bad people. Had not Chaos, god of discord, called all of them here to plan a final strike against the loathsome force of Cosmos they would all have been as far away from each other as possible.

As that wasn't the case, eleven villains waited uncomfortably in the silence of the unusually small meeting room. It seemed Chaos' original meeting room had been demolished in a recent fight, and until it was rebuilt, this new and smaller room was their meeting grounds. Just how such a place managed to present itself in the shattered remains of the world was beyond the villains, but they suspected Chaos had purposefully pulled it from whatever Void it came from just to use it.

It was just a powder-keg waiting to explode.

And, per usual, someone was about to set it off with the most off-kilter question ever.

Kuja, inspecting one of the items he obtained from a recent fight, broke the silence. "Is a Mindcrush possible to use as an attack?"

Half of the room glanced at him with fierce glares and hostile sounds of discontent. The other half pretended to not have heard what he uttered.

Kuja, meanwhile, did not seem to care of what the others thought of him and continued; as though he were simply talking to himself in a half-interested musing. "One would think collapsing or crushing their opponent's mind would be a fantastic way to rid themselves of all their problems."

"Well, how do you propose one accomplishes such an attack, Kuja?" Exdeath asked shortly, a small sneer detectable in his voice. "Such an attack would be ideal, but who here can really crush a mind?"

"I'd think it would be easy…" Cloud of Darkness murmured, as a musing expression flittered across her face. "An influx of magic would have to be entirely focused on the opponents mind, made to compress until the mind is destroyed or shattered beyond recognition. I have never considered performing one, but it does sound promising…"

"Indeed." The Emperor drawled, flicking some unruly hair over his shoulder in a disinterested fashion. He appeared bored by the conversation, but contributed nonetheless. "However, we all are aware that some of us are not willing to shatter our foe's psyche…it would be too damaging, wouldn't it Golbez?"

A small growl came from another man in a full suit of dark armor. "I wouldn't think it honorable to destroy a foe in such a way. It will just render a very hollow victory to those too cowardly to battle their opponent to their fullest potential."

Near the back of the room, Jecht gave a rough laugh. "Got to go with Golbez on this one. What kind of wuss would smash someone's mind to pieces? It's cheap!" Although Jecht didn't notice, one occupant of the room fired a small glare in his direction before returning to appearing disinterested.

"You only say such things because you know you do not have the ability to crush a mind, Jecht." Ultimecia said dryly. "It obviously calls for power you do not possess, and as such, you find a way to put it down." In retort to her statement, Jecht turned his head and snorted loudly with derision, now agitated.

"I for one would like to see a mind crush performed. It might give an idea how one can go about harnessing such power." Garland announced. "There has to be magic involved, but I suspect there is more to crushing a person's mind than we are assuming."

Silence permeated the room as the occupants mused over the different ways one might go about destroying a mind. In theory, it sounded like a high level magic user might have a chance at it; but all the same, it promised to be extremely difficult. The more physical oriented villains of the room either wondered why anyone would want to crush someone's mind when power worked just as well to crush a head, or in one villain's case wondered why the hell the conversation was going on as long as it was.

It was Kefka that finally shattered the thoughtful silence in a frustrated snarl. "Can anyone here crush a mind? This is pathetic; I thought we were the most feared in our worlds!"

"Can you?" Kuja shot sarcastically. "If you can, I would like to see a demonstration."

The evil clown paused and put on a very ugly scowl, but didn't reply. To be honest, he had no inkling on how to destroy a mind either, and it was beginning to get on his nerves.

An annoyed sigh came from the back of the room, near to where Jecht was sitting. "Are any of you going to drop this discussion?"

Kefka rounded to the sound, a sneer appearing on his face. "Why so agitated, Sephiroth? Everyone here seems to have put their two cents in except for you and the new guy. Three guesses why; you two probably couldn't smash a mind even if you tried."

The 'new guy' made a sound of annoyance in his throat, but sounded distorted due to the full armor he also was wearing, the echo in the helmet obscuring his voice. "I'm keeping silent because I believe this topic is ridiculous, and I would rather not be a part of it."

"Too bad nobody cares what you think, Gabranth." Kefka retorted rudely, before fixing his beady eyes on the silver-haired man. "Silent now, eh? What's the matter Sephiroth? Cat got your tongue?"

Sephiroth stared coolly back at Kefka, but his eyes seemed to blaze to life with unusual brightness. "…Do you really wish to see a Mind Crush?"

Before considering just how serious Sephiroth was, Kefka laughed loudly. "Oh yes! I'd be absolutely delighted." He ended with a sarcastic sneer, in a full challenge to the katana-wielding man.

Very slowly, Sephiroth stepped away from the wall he was leaning on and faced the demented clown. Kefka grinned back manically at the silver-haired man, while the other occupants of the room watched with either wary or interested expressions.

With a sudden flourish, Sephiroth held his arm out with his hand opened, palm pointing at Kefka, yelling out in a strong and powerful voice, "Mind Crush!"

It was very odd to see Sephiroth do such a thing, as most of the villains of the room knew him to be more constrained when performing any magical attacks. This new behavior seemed strange, and after a moment, nothing appeared to have happened. Sephiroth still stood still, arm stretched out in front of him while Kefka stood opposite to him with a mocking grin on his face.

With a sudden blast of stale air that came from nowhere, the light and colors of the room inverted and went bright. Some of the villains started forward in surprise, but before any action could be taken, the light and colors returned to normal, and everything seemed right. …Well, almost everything.

Kefka fell back and hit the ground, his eyes glassy and blank with no sign of coherent life about him at all.

Slowly, Sephiroth put down his arm. Silence permeated the room yet again, before someone mustered up the courage to speak.

"Holy hell, did you just kill that gay clown?" Jecht sat forward, eyes wide and unbelieving. Sephiroth turned to the man and shook his head once.

"No. I only crushed his mind a little." Sephiroth returned to the wall he was previously leaning on. "In a few hours, he'll wake up with a painful headache, but nothing too damaging."

Why have you not used such a power before? That was remarkable!" Ultimecia said; an unmistakable sound of awe in her voice. Sephiroth frowned slightly in response.

"It takes far too long to charge. Added, it doesn't work the way it's supposed to on some people, so I try different tactics."

"…Have you ever Mind Crushed Cloud?" Kuja asked curiously. To this, Sephiroth just smirked.

Why do i find that so damn funny?
Seriously, first time i read it it sent me into a fit of mad laughter.

[Lord Seth]

Take the following scenario:

"Bob confronted Alice, ignoring, for now, the subtle, yet nauseating smell that filled the room. His face was contorted, not by the stench but by rage, his eyes piercing. Alice shrank back from him.

'Why?!' he demanded.

Instead of answering, Alice's eyes widened, her face grey in fear. Bob smirked. He had done it now: he had scared her and she would confess to the crime. He took a step forward but she didn't even flinch away from him, her eyes fixed in a stare. Something wasn't right... she wasn't even looking at him! That was when he noticed the shadow and realized what the stench he'd been foolishly ignoring was. His smirk vanished, and he felt the goosebumps forming on his neck as he turned around..."

Versus

"Bob: *furious, his face contorted in rage, his gaze piercing as Alice shrinks away from him* Why?!
*a shadow is seen on Alice's face, but Bob, in his rage does not notice*
Alice: *does not answer, fixing her gaze on the huge, rotten monster that is slowly lumbering towards Bob, her eyes widening in panic. She is frozen in place by her terror*
Bob: *smirks, assuming that Alice's terror is due to him. He takes a step forward, noticing that Alice's eyes do not follow, fixed on something else. He takes note of the smell in the room, realizing now what it is. The smirk vanishes, and he turns around*
"

I tried to keep a similar level of detail and so on in both examples, and yeah, I know my writing isn't a great example of skill, but I think it works well enough for what I want to say.This unfortunately is the same problem I had before: Taking an example that does work better in prose and is in fact practically made for it (making it even less of a good example is that the script one could be written better), then deciding that due to these examples that are specifically chosen to prove the point, applies to everything, seems to be a weak argument. For example, regardless of your politics, I'm pretty sure you can think of a really bad Democratic in Congress as well as a really good Republican. But arguing "see? This Republican is far better than this Democratic, so Republicans are better!" is absurd (as is the converse, taking a great Democrat and a bad Republican, and claiming that it proves Democrats are better than Republicans)


However, there are those gems in which the premise is good, the characters are good, and the writing isn't at all bland. I have had the pleasure of reading one such gem, written by a fellow Playgrounder. And man, it proves scripts can be every bit as good as prose. I could tell it took skill. But while the good ones are there, the bad ones are a bit easier to slip past the radar.The main problem is, this applies to everything. Prose? Script? Poetry? Video? There's tons of bad stuff in all of them.


The worst pieces of fiction I have seen have been written in script format,Really? The worst ones I've seen are written in prose. One particularly painful one had probably the worst grammar and spelling I've ever seen.


But by banning the format, I think, it helps encourage writers to actually put in effort into their stories (again, not the fault of the format, but of the people who mistakenly think that because it's script, then it *needs* no effort). It is a shame that those writers who take the format seriously have to suffer because of the many, many writers who don't, though.This applies just as much to prose though.

[Eloi]

^ If they ban prose too they kinda won't have a site, eh?

[bluewind95]

This unfortunately is the same problem I had before: Taking an example that does work better in prose and is in fact practically made for it (making it even less of a good example is that the script one could be written better), then deciding that due to these examples that are specifically chosen to prove the point, applies to everything, seems to be a weak argument. For example, regardless of your politics, I'm pretty sure you can think of a really bad Democratic in Congress as well as a really good Republican. But arguing "see? This Republican is far better than this Democratic, so Republicans are better!" is absurd (as is the converse, taking a great Democrat and a bad Republican, and claiming that it proves Democrats are better than Republicans)


Frankly, I felt that both worked well enough. Neither is a great example of skill, as I am not very skilled at writing. But I felt that both were equally good (for a relative definition of good). One, though, gives me the extra tool of show-don't-tell. The other one doesn't, and thus, requires more skill to properly write (which I don't have :smallbiggrin:) I'm actually not trying to say one is better than the other, but that they require different skills. However, the script format has the misfortune of being seen as something that requires no effort. This is not true. All it does is merely help hide some of the skill issues which are seen as the most "important" (like description and some degree of bland sentences), while accentuating others (action, dialogue). This is not script being an inferior form of writing, just one that is being grossly misused as a cheap alternative to prose.



The main problem is, this applies to everything. Prose? Script? Poetry? Video? There's tons of bad stuff in all of them.


Yes. But what I'm trying to say is that some forms make it easier to slip in certain kinds of horrors. Take Star Wars. HORRIBLE writing. Entertaining movie to many because it had pretty graphics and decent action scenes. In prose format with that kind of writing? Just... no. And I shudder to think of that in POETRY.


Really? The worst ones I've seen are written in prose. One particularly painful one had probably the worst grammar and spelling I've ever seen.

See, that's exactly my point. To me, such a thing would be entirely unreadable. But you know what the sad part is? In script format, due to its nature, it probably would have been at least half-readable, if it was action-oriented. But, take, for example, some kind of deep, character-building story. No matter how good the writing, that probably wouldn't work out very well in script format. Because, like I said, script format isn't better or worse than prose. It's just different. However, it is sadly being used to be lazy. Even though the medium itself is not worse than prose.


This applies just as much to prose though.

I have yet to see someone who thinks writing prose takes less effort than writing a script. Even though, at least in my eyes, both take the same amount of effort... just in different areas.

...I hope I was a bit clearer this time!

[Lord Seth]

^ If they ban prose too they kinda won't have a site, eh?But then why ban either?


Yes. But what I'm trying to say is that some forms make it easier to slip in certain kinds of horrors. Take Star Wars. HORRIBLE writing. Entertaining movie to many because it had pretty graphics and decent action scenes. In prose format with that kind of writing? Just... no. And I shudder to think of that in POETRY.Whoa, wait a minute, how was Star Wars horrible writing? If you're talking about the prequels you may have a point, but the original trilogy was decent enough. While they certainly were not without their flaws, I see nothing wrong enough with the writing to warrant it be called "terrible".


See, that's exactly my point. To me, such a thing would be entirely unreadable. But you know what the sad part is? In script format, due to its nature, it probably would have been at least half-readable, if it was action-oriented.Not in the story I was thinking of. Prose, script, whatever...it still would've been just as equally badly-written and hard to read.

[bluewind95]

Whoa, wait a minute, how was Star Wars horrible writing? If you're talking about the prequels you may have a point, but the original trilogy was decent enough. While they certainly were not without their flaws, I see nothing wrong enough with the writing to warrant it be called "terrible".

Whoops! Yes, I meant the prequels. I kind of forgot to clarify that. :smallredface:



Not in the story I was thinking of. Prose, script, whatever...it still would've been just as equally badly-written and hard to read.
You most probably have more experience than I do. So I instead propose my argument as a possible perception some or many people may have.

[Arakune]

Many fanfics have problems with purple prose, or at least the genre and history doesn't call for it. Anyone know about a way to prevent that? To know when the way you're trying to describe something is going too much over the top?

[Eloi]

Many fanfics have problems with purple prose, or at least the genre and history doesn't call for it. Anyone know about a way to prevent that? To know when the way you're trying to describe something is going too much over the top?

I find beige prose to be a more prevalent problem.

[Arakune]

I find beige prose to be a more prevalent problem.

It's the simple opposite or it have it's particularities?