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Eloi
2010-06-13, 09:10 PM
I mean, I don't see any rules about it. Why can't you where a chain shirt underneath full plate? I mean I could do that in real life, besides the heat, I don't really see why a character in-game can't do it. Can they?

tyckspoon
2010-06-13, 09:14 PM
You can do it, you just gain no benefits for it and lots of penalty. The armor bonuses won't stack, but the weight and the armor check penalties will. So.. there's no sane reason to do so.

PId6
2010-06-13, 09:14 PM
Actually, I think you can wear multiple armors. The rules for magic item slots only apply to magic items, so you can wear as many armors as you can carry. Of course, since they all apply armor AC bonuses, none of them stack with each other. And since they would all take the body slot, only one of them can be magical.

Bah, ninja!

Escheton
2010-06-13, 09:19 PM
Fullplates already have a chain shirt under them. Or at least leather and chain on strategic places.

You could wear a chain shirt, chaina-aina or something and dastana's from oriental adventures...

Seffbasilisk
2010-06-13, 09:19 PM
If you're going up against a sunder-machine, or something with acid attacks...

Say verse a rustmonster.

You only get the biggest number, they overlap, not stack.

However, IIRC Knights would wear Padded Armor, then Leather, then Chain, all before Plate.

You'd only get the plate AC bonus, all the armor check penalties would stack, but once the plate was blasted away from you you'd have chain. Then leather, etc etc.

Like peeling an onion.

Dacia Brabant
2010-06-13, 09:24 PM
One way to do this without worrying about stacking armor check penalties and weight is to use Bracers of Armor with your regular armor, or some other method of gaining a [Force] AC bonus. It won't stack with your armor (which is a bit silly IMO) but it will still be there if your armor gets destroyed.

Eloi
2010-06-13, 09:26 PM
Is there any penalties/effects from the overheating you'd experience from wearing that much armor?

Escheton
2010-06-13, 09:28 PM
One way to do this without worrying about stacking armor check penalties and weight is to use Bracers of Armor with your regular armor, or some other method of gaining a [Force] AC bonus. It won't stack with your armor (which is a bit silly IMO) but it will still be there if your armor gets destroyed.

might as well pay the 2k to make the suit immune to it all.

gallagher
2010-06-13, 09:33 PM
Is there any penalties/effects from the overheating you'd experience from wearing that much armor?

I'd say that you become exhausted really quickly, especially after an encounter, as you may be able to wear it, but you won't be able to move well or that quickly. You would also get a penalty to hit and less damage because you won't be able to hit as hard from limited mobility. The only rules I can find is for encumberance, but most dms should have common sense for this one

BritishBill
2010-06-13, 10:08 PM
I mean, I don't see any rules about it. Why can't you where a chain shirt underneath full plate? I mean I could do that in real life, besides the heat, I don't really see why a character in-game can't do it. Can they?

I mean theoretically you can but I imagine its however your dm rules it. You probably wouldnt have much mobility depending upon how many layers you put on. Also keep in mind some heavier armor such as plate already has some chain shirt layers. wearing additional layers might not have an effect and may make it so that your armor will not fit. I mean theirs alot of things to take into account, but i suppose its ulitmately up to common sense and your dm.

Knaight
2010-06-13, 10:09 PM
Well, if you assume plate has all the layers under it, probably. Otherwise, I see it being glossed over heavily, as there is no reason to pay more attention to realism here than in, say, the Jump rules and what can be achieved with them.

Eloi
2010-06-13, 10:42 PM
Well, if you assume plate has all the layers under it, probably. Otherwise, I see it being glossed over heavily, as there is no reason to pay more attention to realism here than in, say, the Jump rules and what can be achieved with them.

Well the heating for full plate over leather over a chain shirt shouldn't be the same for a bikini, they should maintain that much realism I'd think.

Knaight
2010-06-13, 10:48 PM
Well the heating for full plate over leather over a chain shirt shouldn't be the same for a bikini, they should maintain that much realism I'd think.

This is D&D we are talking about. Look at the level of realism everywhere else in it, why focus on heating above all.

PId6
2010-06-13, 10:49 PM
This is D&D we are talking about. Look at the level of realism everywhere else in it, why focus on heating above all.
And there's always Endure Elements...

Eloi
2010-06-13, 10:53 PM
And there's always Endure Elements...

Maybe the reason people in armor don't overheat is that they have hidden air conditioners inside them. Hm..

DragoonWraith
2010-06-13, 11:03 PM
Technically, according to the fluff anyway, you do. The description of full-plate says that there's chain mail and padding underneath, which are effectively equivalent to the separate armors, but already included in the package labeled "full-plate". It might be reasonable to say someone whose full-plate armor is destroyed by a rust monster is now wearing padded armor, though.

Hadrian_Emrys
2010-06-13, 11:06 PM
This whole subject is why layered armor types exist in my D&D 3.75 homebrew. Dex is used for what equates to AC, but armor covers DR by type.

Layer 1: DR blunt, ex. padded
Layer 2: DR pierce, ex. mail
Layer 3: DR slash, ex. plate

Wearing a knight's full gear would allow one to tank a fair amount of damage at the cost of being far less capable of dodging blows. The current system is both painfully outdated and ineptly designed. Even 4.0 was designed to be less of an rp and more of a small scale board/war game with a fantasy MMO flavor. I'm not saying that it isn't fun, but it took the easy way out when it came to fixing the many problems with 3.5.

GenPol
2010-06-13, 11:10 PM
Technically, according to the fluff anyway, you do. The description of full-plate says that there's chain mail and padding underneath, which are effectively equivalent to the separate armors, but already included in the package labeled "full-plate". It might be reasonable to say someone whose full-plate armor is destroyed by a rust monster is now wearing padded armor, though.

DragoonWraith has it right.

EDIT: I mean just imagine somebody trying to wear half-plate and full-plate at the same time. Would be difficult, to say the least....:smalltongue:

Lev
2010-06-13, 11:11 PM
Heartwire from BoED can be layered under armor and is considered a modification (non enchanting) 1,500g, it's a layer of mail to protect vital areas under your armor and adds +2 AC against crit confirms.

balistafreak
2010-06-13, 11:13 PM
Has anyone ever donned actual armor? :smallconfused: Well, in this day and age, probably not, but actually consider armor that could do something.

Padded armor isn't just a shirt, no matter how much it sounds like it. Leather armor isn't a leather jerkin, no matter how much it sounds like it. A chain shirt isn't a "shirt", it's more like a short hauberk - that is, if it really wants to accompish anything.

Padded armor is cloth and wadding made thick enough to deflect blows. It's going to have to be thick to do anything. Leather armor will be tough and inflexible, extremely stiff, to do anything. A chain shirt isn't going to be something light and flexible you slip underneath your platemail as an afterthought - your platemail already has that built in so you don't instantly die the moment someone pounds your iron shell with a billy club.

If you're going to try and don two suits of armor at the same time, I'm going to bull-rush your over-encumbered self and roll your thick, bloated body around until you're singing "Naaaaa, na na na na naaa, naaa, naaa, na Katamari Damacy!"

Heck, you won't even be able to get an attack of opportunity off, you're going to be fatter than the Michelin man!

/natter:smalltongue:

Ormur
2010-06-13, 11:14 PM
Armor gives a -4 penalty on the checks for enduring hot weather without taking non-lethal damage.

Lev
2010-06-13, 11:19 PM
Has anyone ever donned actual armor?
Life Preserver - AC1 +8 to swim checks, if you take fire damage make a DC13 reflex save or take 1d6 additional fire damage, this effect endures every round until extinguished.

Fax Celestis
2010-06-13, 11:22 PM
The rules for magic item slots only apply to magic items, so you can wear as many armors as you can carry.

False.


Magic Items On The Body

Many magic items need to be donned by a character who wants to employ them or benefit from their abilities. Itís possible for a creature with a humanoid-shaped body to wear as many as twelve magic items at the same time. However, each of those items must be worn on (or over) a particular part of the body.

A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which place on the body the item is worn.

* One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head
* One pair of eye lenses or goggles on or over the eyes
* One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck
* One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso
* One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt)
* One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor)
* One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor)
* One pair of bracers or bracelets on the arms or wrists
* One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands
* One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand)
* One pair of boots or shoes on the feet

Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of the same type as he wishes. However, additional items beyond those listed above have no effect.

Some items can be worn or carried without taking up space on a characterís body. The description of an item indicates when an item has this property.

Armor has a slot, the armor slot. You cannot wear multiple suits of armor.

Vaynor
2010-06-13, 11:23 PM
Fax, that's for magic items only. You can wear only one suit of magical armor in the body slot, but there's nothing preventing you from also wearing 10 sets of non-magical armor. Other than looking like a fool, that is.


Life Preserver - AC1 +8 to swim checks, if you take fire damage make a DC13 reflex save or take 1d6 additional fire damage, this effect endures every round until extinguished.

Seems like it would also let you take 10 on Swim checks. :smallwink:

PId6
2010-06-13, 11:34 PM
Armor has a slot, the armor slot. You cannot wear multiple suits of armor.
Pretty much as Vaynor says. The page title is even labeled "Magic Items On The Body."

balistafreak
2010-06-13, 11:38 PM
You can wear only one suit of magical armor in the body slot, but there's nothing preventing you from also wearing 10 sets of non-magical armor. Other than looking like a fool, that is.

Pretty sure you'd run out of sizes first. Maybe 3 to 5 at best. :smallwink:

Vaynor
2010-06-13, 11:41 PM
Pretty sure you'd run out of sizes first. Maybe 3 to 5 at best. :smallwink:

Tell me, do these 10 suits of full-plate make me look fat?

Coidzor
2010-06-14, 01:31 AM
Well the heating for full plate over leather over a chain shirt shouldn't be the same for a bikini, they should maintain that much realism I'd think.

For one thing, less pinching and scraping than in a bikini.

Grumman
2010-06-14, 02:08 AM
Wearing multiple layers of armour that aren't designed for it is going to be exponentially more encumbering, while only providing improved protection at a linear or worse rate.

To me, the best way of representing multiple layers of armour is Sectioned Armour, from the Planar Handbook. It's a suit of full plate that you can strip down to medium or light armour.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-06-14, 02:12 AM
I mean, I don't see any rules about it. Why can't you where a chain shirt underneath full plate? I mean I could do that in real life, besides the heat, I don't really see why a character in-game can't do it. Can they?

Armor is already layered its how medieval armor worked, for simple stuff like chainmail or scalemail you' have padding underneath to absorb blows, [most any armor would have padding] A suit of chainmail is already part of a suit of fullplate. You have metal plates, under that layer is chainmail and under that is padding to absorb blows and prevent chaffing.

If you want to add another layer to your fullplate make your skin tougher. ie improve your natural armor.

gdiddy
2010-06-14, 03:36 AM
I do live reenactment in plate, sometimes with live steel at private or educational events, more often with the SCA in their various battles.

I always have a thick layer of quilted wool, a leather backing, and chainmail reinforcement around my joints. On top of this, I fight in 16 ga. steel with a 14 ga. helmet. All told, it's 6 lbs of Arming coat and trousers, 14 lbs of hardened leather, and around 40 pounds of metal I strap to my body.

Yes, I have to drink a lot during summer events. Yes, when I go down to a halberd to my face plate, I want to hug the mud, because it's cooler than the Pennsylvania summer. I've seen comrades and enemies alike go down to heatstroke in the summer, sometimes while running.

The problem with all plating armor is that it need's support and cushioning. You need joints that provide flexibility. It's not an immobile solid suit, like Iron Man. Several pieces of art depict fully armored knights doing cartwheels and handstands in front of other knights. It moves with you, but it's also not like a set of clothes. A set of armor with straps that fasten your rerebrace (the armor on your upper arm and elbows) directly to your spaulders is different from a set that straps behind you to the rerebrace on the opposite arm, and both sets will sit differently. You also can't have a breastplate or joint armor sitting against your street clothes or bare chest, Prince Adam. Because that's solid steel transfering it's energy into your sternum or kneecap. You need something that gives.

In a nutshell: If you are wearing full plate, you're already wearing 2-5 layers. The padded armor, leathers, chains, rings, scales, and plates are all included in the neat little +8 that everyone knows and loves.

Spiryt
2010-06-14, 04:11 AM
Armor is already layered its how medieval armor worked, for simple stuff like chainmail or scalemail you' have padding underneath to absorb blows, [most any armor would have padding] A suit of chainmail is already part of a suit of fullplate. You have metal plates, under that layer is chainmail and under that is padding to absorb blows and prevent chaffing.

If you want to add another layer to your fullplate make your skin tougher. ie improve your natural armor.

I cannot find anything about it in srd - it only states:


The suit includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor.

Eloi
2010-06-14, 04:22 AM
I cannot find anything about it in srd - it only states:

Why are the implications of wearing multiple layers of clothes have no standard rules nor census on the penalties of it or whether its possible? It's weird what holes you can poke into a system by thinking of the smaller details...

Cogidubnus
2010-06-14, 04:38 AM
DnD quite often relies on your willing suspension of disbelief and not poking holes in the rules, because there's so much that isn't said, it's just assumed.

Other than that, gdiddy has it in a (rather large) nutshell. If you want to try and fit MORE under that, it'd be hella uncomfortable.

Runestar
2010-06-14, 04:53 AM
I can imagine someone wanting to do it to benefit from multiple armour properties. Say he dons a +5 fullplate of heavy fortification (Already +10). But there are many more armour properties he wants. Instead of venturing into epic armour pricing territory, he instead gets +1 padded armour ladden with +9 worth of other armour enhancements. The AC won't stack, but that really isn't what he is after. :smallbiggrin:

PId6
2010-06-14, 05:11 AM
I can imagine someone wanting to do it to benefit from multiple armour properties. Say he dons a +5 fullplate of heavy fortification (Already +10). But there are many more armour properties he wants. Instead of venturing into epic armour pricing territory, he instead gets +1 padded armour ladden with +9 worth of other armour enhancements. The AC won't stack, but that really isn't what he is after. :smallbiggrin:
Except magical armor do take up the body slot, so you can only wear one suit of magical armor at a time. Wearing multiple armors just doesn't help in any way short of rust monsters.

Vaynor
2010-06-14, 05:20 AM
At most you can wear one suit of magical armor and a few suits of non-magical armor. The rest can't be magical because magic armor takes up a slot, and the armor bonuses don't stack. So, yeah, you can, but it's pointless.

Morph Bark
2010-06-14, 05:50 AM
Well the heating for full plate over leather over a chain shirt shouldn't be the same for a bikini, they should maintain that much realism I'd think.

Not even if it'd be a full plate bikini over a leather bikini over a chain bikini (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChainmailBikini)?

Bharg
2010-06-14, 06:11 AM
I would say a chain mail is already part of a full plate armor.
Like you wear something thick under a chainshirt so that it doesn't tear up you skin.

Whammydill
2010-06-14, 08:43 AM
As far as overheating I'd have them make a DC 10 constitution check after a number of rounds equal to their CON. Each round after the difficulty increases by 1. Failure results in fatigued state, another fail puts you exhausted. More failures make you stunned or something. This would make things like lesser restoration invaluable as it removes the exhaustion and sets you back to fighting form. At least I think lesser resto does that, potion of it would be nice for a person layering in your game.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-06-14, 11:44 AM
I cannot find anything about it in srd - it only states:

Because I stated how full plate is actually designed, even if you look at movies you can see the &)*&)*$ chainmail in the gaps of a suit of platemail armor.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Modern-armor-suit.jpg

Their is a picture of a modern reproduction of plate armor the chainmail he wears under the plates are clearly visible. And under that you can bet he has padding.

RAW: Wearing multiple layers of armor does not stack, but we all know that.

Real medieval armor was already layered, this has been said again and again. What more do you need? someone on platemail to walk up and slap you in face?

Spiryt
2010-06-14, 03:12 PM
Because I stated how full plate is actually designed, even if you look at movies you can see the &)*&)*$ chainmail in the gaps of a suit of platemail armor.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Modern-armor-suit.jpg

Their is a picture of a modern reproduction of plate armor the chainmail he wears under the plates are clearly visible. And under that you can bet he has padding.

RAW: Wearing multiple layers of armor does not stack, but we all know that.

Real medieval armor was already layered, this has been said again and again. What more do you need? someone on platemail to walk up and slap you in face?

Lol, no because even in this reproduction you can clearly see how there's very limited amount of mail on the guy, his legs appear to be completely without mail.

While simple "layers" of mail, then plate sometimes were occurring (there are sources for that) in what could be called "fullplate" - it was nowhere near norm, and it cannot be said that those are layers of mail, and padding that could represent other armors in D&D (like standalone mail or padding).

There are plenty of examples of "fullplate" without mail at all, or with mail carefully placed in the joints, where there cannot be any "layers" because space where they overlap is small. I believe that such method was most popular during most of 15th century, but I'm no expert at all.

Some examples:
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/robert_grushill/
http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi08955j05a.jpg
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/konrad_von_weinsberg/image/5332/original/
http://www.medievalrepro.com/Images/Armour%20History%20031.jpg
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=6939
http://www.myarmoury.com/images/features/pic_feature_ger_gothic.gif
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j199/matteaston/100_4463.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh17/Captayne/cru2.jpg


As for padding, it would be in majority of occasions much different padding that in case of mail, as mail needs quite buff and solid one to work correctly, and in case of plate it would be generally only something to not mount armor on clothes or skin.

So stating that " how full plate is actually designed" is generally generalising much - like saying that diesel was like cars were actually designed.

Finally, it doesn't matter anyway, because D&D obviously doesn't have much in common with reality in general, so if SRD states that there's padding and plate in Fullplate it is so. Of course, if someone doesn't care, (s)he describes his armor differently, there's no problem here.

Lycar
2010-06-14, 03:53 PM
Why are the implications of wearing multiple layers of clothes have no standard rules nor census on the penalties of it or whether its possible? It's weird what holes you can poke into a system by thinking of the smaller details...

Because the designers didn't figure that someone would be daft (or clueless) enough to even ask?

The problem with the D&D armour system isn't so much that it is overly simple, it is that there are only 2 armours worth wearing: Chain shirt and Full Plate (and maybe mithral Breastplate, but if the +1 to AC is worth the 3000 gp is another question).

*sigh* Once you are used to a more refined armour system you really don't want to go back.

Oh, but maybe take a cue from a system that does use piecemeal armour. Even if the system goes for damage reduction rather then hit protection, but the numbers are reasonably close to draw parallels.


In order of protective value, DR 1 is the damage reduction and encumbrance is, well, mostly like ACP I suppose, although things work slightly differently. Imagine the encumbrance would be be alternately subtracted from your to-hit and your (active)defense bonus.

Padded underclothing / thick (winter) clothing: DR 1 / Enc. 1
Gambesson / Padded Armour: DR 2 / Enc. 2
'Toadskin' (Studded Leather): DR 3 / Enc. 2
Chain shirt, 1/2 arm: DR 3 / Enc. 3
Cuirass (simple breastplate, fron only(!)): DR 3 / Enc. 2
Leather armour (hard boiled leather breasplate): DR 3 / Enc. 3
Long chain shirt (full arm, reaches about knee-high): DR 4 / Enc. 4
Light Plate (plate front & back, upper leg greaves): DR 4 / Enc. 3
Scale Armour (leather with sewn/bolted metal scales):DR 5 / Enc. 5
'Mirror' Armour (chain with added metal plates): DR 5 / Enc. 4
'Garethian' Plate (about Full/Half-Plate, infantry use): DR 6 / Enc. 4
'Horasian' Cavalry Armour (Plate for cavalry only): DR 8 / Enc. 5
Full jousting armour (heavy plate,for sport,not battle):DR 12 / Enc. 10

Wear a helmet (except full suits already include one): DR +1 / Enc. +1
Leather greaves (not if armour already protects limbs): DR +1 / Enc. +1
Chain greaves (leather doesn't add protection to chain):DR +1 / Enc. +1
Plate greaves (chain doesn't add protection to plate): DR +2 / Enc. +2

Not that the last armours are intended for mounted fighting with lances. Because lances are an 'attack-only' weapon talent. That means that you get your full lancer skill as an attack bonus, while all other mellee weapon talents split the skill level between attack and (active) defense (parrying).

Think of the 'defense bonus' variant from UA. Except you only get 1 parry per round, or maybe two if you specialize in shields or TWF (think attack is standard action, parry is move action. Although you can forgo your parry and make a 2nd attack as a penalty. Also, if you attack after moving, you sacrifice your parry and take the penalty. Unless you charge as a special maneuver. Which you need to learn. Which fighter types have an easier time doing.)

You will notice that some armours are strictly better then others, offering the same protection for less encumbrance. In some cases, it is a trade-off between price, availability and weight. For example, the simple leather breastplate is relatively cheap (especially if made from leather that still ... reeks... from the tanning process... very cheap...), whereas 'Toadskin' is more expensive (and also unavailable outside certain regions of the gameworld.

Also, the PCs abilities to negate the encumberance penalties are very limited. At best, a veteran with years of experience can hope to shave off 2 (!) points of the encumbrance penalty.

This is offset by the fact that some fighting styles/weapons ignore some of the encumbrance. Basically, if you try to fence effectively, each point of encumbrance will hurt. Swordfighting ignores the first two points of encumbrance. Wielding a simple bashing/hacking weapon like a club, mace, warhammer, axe etc. ignores 4 points of encumbrance.

The downside is that the more 'evolved' weapons like swords and fencing weapons offer a wider range of special maneuvers. For example, a fencer can learn an attack with which he can attempt to strike a 'weak spot' in the armour and thus flat-out ignore the DR of the target. Axe-types simply power-attack.

Where is the difference? Well, encumbrance also directly deducts from your move speed and initiative. If you are lightly armoured, you can simply outrun the tin man. ;)

So this is still simple enough but offers some customization.

In the advanced rules, bits and pieces even have fractional values of DR / Enc. and you can mix and match. For example, a chain shirt by itself offers a decent protection to chest/abdomen but only modest protection to your ams and none to legs and head. Also, you need to wear a padded suit underneath. But that suit then adds it's protection and encumbrance values.

But you could totally make a, say, ranger type who wears padded armour and then adds some protection with leather greaves. Or the abovementioned chain shirt (which also can be worn hidden under clothing) can be augmented by adding a cuirass, upping your chest DR rating sky high but leaving your limbs woefully unprotected. Doesn't slow you down much though.

The tin man will either wear one of the full suits (which usually offer a slightly better deal on total protection vs. encumbrance) or can decide to go with padding, wear a long suit of chain over that and add breastplate and greaves as needed to achieve a Full Plate like effect.

The point is that this guy can sleep in the padded suit and have some protection and not go and 'buy a mithral chain shirt as a payama'. ;)

WhiteHarness
2010-06-14, 05:07 PM
A full suit of mail is almost never worn under a real plate harness. Generally, it's just patches of mail sewn to an arming doublet at strategic places that, for reasons of mobility, the plates themselves cannot cover and there must necessarily be gaps in the protection--the armpits, the bend of the elbow, the groin, etc.

It usually looks like this:

http://historicenterprises.com/bmz_cache/9/9c4a99ea98c9c087c841478dca3a440c.image.237x250.jpg

To the uninformed, it can appear that a full suit of mail is being worn under the armour.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will open their mouths to pontificate on a subject about which they are clearly woefully undereducated. Reading a few gaming books does not make you an arms and armour scholar, and if your exposure to historical hoplology is so limited, then you shouldn't go around making statements about historical armour based on your RPG-informed assumptions. Games need to stop perpetuating misinformation. In the immortal words of the late Hank Reinhardt, "If it isn't required to educate, then it should at least be trusted not to misinform."

Emmerask
2010-06-14, 05:16 PM
Why are the implications of wearing multiple layers of clothes have no standard rules nor census on the penalties of it or whether its possible? It's weird what holes you can poke into a system by thinking of the smaller details...

The problem is that if you try to cover every stupid thing a player may think of then the book will very very quickly become 100 books full of stupid rules for stupid things :smallwink:

Mark Hall
2010-06-14, 06:24 PM
While I wouldn't let you gain specific advantage from doing so, I DID have a fighter who asked if he could leave off parts of his armor to reduce his armor check penalty (and his AC bonus). He'd sometimes switch to padded, or a breastplate, depending on what he needed.

awa
2010-06-14, 06:38 PM
I personally would allow you to stack armors (for an actual ac bonus) but you would be treated as non proficient (double penalties if you are non proficient) combine the check penalties +2 and 2 light armors becomes medium a light and a medium becomes heavy and think up some new penalty if you go over heavy.

2xMachina
2010-06-15, 03:24 AM
The problem is that if you try to cover every stupid thing a player may think of then the book will very very quickly become 100 books full of stupid rules for stupid things :smallwink:

Ah, FATAL.

Ravens_cry
2010-06-15, 03:57 AM
Maybe you could, maybe you couldn't. No point though as armour bonuses don't stack.

Rainbownaga
2010-06-15, 04:09 AM
Maybe you could, maybe you couldn't. No point though as armour bonuses don't stack.

Well, technically if you have a breastplate of heavy fortification it might be worth combining it with fullplate for the better AC bonus.

Of course that's not going to come up much and it has already been mentioned that you can't wear 2 magical armors at once.

Lev
2010-06-15, 02:22 PM
Magic Items On The Body

Many magic items need to be donned by a character who wants to employ them or benefit from their abilities. Itís possible for a creature with a humanoid-shaped body to wear as many as twelve magic items at the same time. However, each of those items must be worn on (or over) a particular part of the body.

A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which place on the body the item is worn.

* One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head
* One pair of eye lenses or goggles on or over the eyes
* One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck
* One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso
* One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt)
* One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor)
* One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor)
* One pair of bracers or bracelets on the arms or wrists
* One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands
* One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand)
* One pair of boots or shoes on the feet

Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of the same type as he wishes. However, additional items beyond those listed above have no effect.

Some items can be worn or carried without taking up space on a characterís body. The description of an item indicates when an item has this property.
I make it a point to never say no to my players, I just make recommendations and if they want to listen then they stay within the safety of the core rules, if not then they fall into unknown waters and the dangers which may lurk within, this for instance would fall into the realm of "Magic Abuse" specifically magic items are not created to work where one pathway channels into the same stream and back out, you could cross paths or energies, one item may take in the energy of the other, energy could get stuck in the body, magical ailments of sorts could happen through overtaxing the magic weave of your body so you could tangle or break threads which can be seriously dangerous for you and everyone around you.

Beats just saying "NO, RULES."

deuxhero
2010-06-15, 02:37 PM
Only if you have the epic feat that lets you do it (ELH). For obtaining it pre-epic, go-go cheewraugut Kobold!

Ravens_cry
2010-06-15, 02:46 PM
Only if you have the epic feat that lets you do it (ELH). For obtaining it pre-epic, go-go cheewraugut Kobold!
What's the name of the feat? Most of the ELH is in the SRD.

The Glyphstone
2010-06-15, 02:50 PM
What's the name of the feat? Most of the ELH is in the SRD.

Additional Magic Item Space, I think.

Eloi
2010-06-15, 02:58 PM
Additional Magic Item Space, I think.

Can you wear a magic suit of armor over a magic shirt without that feat?

Snake-Aes
2010-06-15, 03:01 PM
Can you wear a magic suit of armor over a magic shirt without that feat?

I do think so. The official character sheet goes out of its way to show separate slots to shirt and armor "torso and body" or something like that. Like bracers and gauntlets.

Ravens_cry
2010-06-15, 03:36 PM
Additional Magic Item Space, I think.
Found it. But it still won't provide more armour as armour bonuses don't stack.

jiriku
2010-06-15, 04:16 PM
Wearing a pile of heavy stuff can impact you in several ways:


Everybody knows about Armor Check Penalties
If the weight exceeds your encumbrance thresholds, you'll suffer encumbrance penalties
Sleeping in anything heavier than light armor leaves you fatigued
Many class features and skills don't work when wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load
You suffer penalties to your rolls to resist extreme weather, and often take nonlethal damage for extreme environmental conditions more rapidly than would someone who wasn't wearing a mound of steel

Provengreil
2010-06-15, 07:57 PM
this may have been brought up already, but i'm just going to post it anyway: IRL wearing "full plate" would have meant that you wore the equivalent padded armor underneath a chain shirt underneath your heavy armor, be it banded, half, or full plate. so technically your character already is wearing multiple layers of armor and if it becomes important you can treat it as such if you want. (ie, all the armor check penalties have already been stacked, the proper bonuses applied, etc. for full plate, a chain shirt, and padded or leather armor)