Great grapple builds?

[gallagher]

So in a game with limited arcane magic, what would a great grapple build be, considering the following criteria---

it's a two weapon fighting build with reflavored set of scorpion claws (making them tiger claws)
I need to have two weapon feats dominate the build, especially two weapon rend and the ones that give extra attacks on full attacks
I need access to the tiger claw school manuevers and stances

I was thinking a tashalatora monk psychic warrior for the extra feats and ask my dm if I can have these be special monk weapons so I can flurry instead of twf, have one of my monk feats be improved grapple, and have the rest of my feats be two weapon rend and manuever feats

are there any other, more appropraite builds

[strider24seven]

I was going to suggest Black Blood Cultist from Champions of Ruin, but then I noticed the TWF. I would still suggest BBC, simply because of the ridiculous Savage Grappling. Otherwise, Tashalatora is the way to go.

[Eldariel]

Monk 2/Psy War 18 is fine, really. Gets enough feats to fuel both styles while still having the abilities needed to Grapple (size increases, Metamorphosis and company); you'll miss out on BAB but c'est la vie. Consider Slayer. Also, Monk gives you Imp. Grapple as a bonus feat (take it as such) so you can use forms with Dex under 13 still maintaining access to the feat.

[PId6]

Tashlatora PsyWar makes for a good grappler. Monk 2/PsyWar X, with first monk bonus feat as Improved Grapple and second one as Monastic Training. You're going to be extremely feat-starved though. You'll need Practiced Manifester, Tashalatora, Linked Power, and some of the Aberrant Blood feats can be good. Definitely pick Expansion as your first power.

[Rasman]

you're overcomplicating things

take a look at Sandstorm, one feat in particular, Scorpion's Grasp, is made for "wannabe" grapplers

also, if Cohorts are allowed, take a Dragonfire Adept as one, or play a DFA with a Grappling Monk Cohort, it's a VERY simple combo where the monk grapples and holds something in place and the DFA breathes on him, the Monk doesn't take damage because of one of the incantations the DFA has that makes all party members immune to his breath weapons

Improved Grapple is also a gimmie feat

[gallagher]

sorry to bump this thread again, but as i am building the character, i need a race and a stat assembly. things to keep in mind:
-36 point buy
-this guy is starting at level 8 with one free LA and no RHD, so i am going with a Monk2/PsyWar6
-i need a proper feat selection. i am taking improved grapple and tashlatora from monk.
-this guy is a grappler who just keeps the guy pinned and claws at his face. i need to therefor rend (through a feat) and have a good grapple modifyer (though the tiger claws give me a +4 untyped bonus)
-also, as i am the DM and this guy is part of a team of 3 (a spellthief/duskblade and a very large guy who throws random items that he can pick up and fights with fists and chains) so i can handwave a bit of cheese for flavor, and can make up a feat if it is balanced (as many DMs would do). this team needs to be able to give a team of about 5 (the regular array of fighter, arcanist, diviner, skillmonkey, and party buffer) at about the same level (though low magic for them, so not alot of great items for them but alot of options for me)

[IdleMuse]

Brawler's Gauntlets give you a +2 untyped bonus on Grapple 3/day
Gloves of the Titan's Grip give you a +8 enhancement bonus on Grapple 3/day

Since you're going PsyWar, I presume you're taking Grip of Iron and Expansion for the Grappley goodness.

An Octopus Familiar grants you an untyped +3 bonus to Grapple. Though there's really no sensible way of getting that.

[unre9istered]

Either go Warforged and get armor spikes (I'm not actually sure you can do this) with the Mineral Warrior template for the free LA. Or go goliath to take advantage of the powerful build trait. Either way max out Str (obviously) and take as your feats: Scorpions Grasp (Sandstorm) seems like a no brainer and it works well with 2-Weapon Rend (hit with both, do damage with rending then free grapple check). If you go Goliath Throw Enemy/Ally is a fun option. For warforged go with Jaws of Death (I think that's what it's called, gives a bite attack) and Adamantine Body gives awesome armor. Given that your going to be immobilizing yourself most of the time you'll need some armor.

[Rasman]

if you want a nice "free LA" Goliath isn't a bad choice, they're medium creatures with Powerful Build, which basically says "I can treat myself as Large when I want to be Large, but when being Large is bad, I'm not"

stat importance will probably be

Str
Con
Wis
Dex
Int
Cha

Goliath gives +4 Str, +2 Con and -2 Dex, so you can work around that with stats

[Person_Man]

Other stuff:


Marshal 1: Cha bonus to all Str checks.
Factotum 3: Int bonus on all Str checks.
Binder 10 + Improved Binder feat: Bind Zagon. Grants Improved Grapple feat, Constrict, Scent, plus the Aversion and Snake Bane abilities. In addition to the bonus feat and Constrict ability, you also "count as Large for the purpose of your opposed Grapple checks." This is hilarious and awesome for small, tiny, or fine sized Binders. Aversion is basically Antipathy (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Antipathy), except it also forces your enemies to move away from snakes (which you can create yourself with Haures or Zceryll vestiges). Put them together, and you have an easy time locking down one enemy while forcing another away from you.
Totemist 1: Girillion Arms soulmeld grants 2 + (2 * essentia) competence bonus to all Grapple checks. Also has an easy time getting 6+ natural weapons, damage boosts, and Dimension Door.
Incarnate 1: With the Shape Soulmeld feat he can access the Mauling Gauntlets soulmeld (it's a Soulborn soulmeld, but he's useless unless you're using a homebrew fix) and respectably pump it up, granting a 2 + (2 * essentia) morale bonus to all Str checks.


Interestingly enough, a Totemist 2/Incarnate 3/Anything 1 can use both soulmelds with an essentia capacity of 4 on the Girillion Arms (2 base from HD + 1 to Totem Essentia Capacity from Totemist + 1 to all soulmeld capacity from Incarnate) and a capacity of 3 on the Mauling Gauntlets (base + Incarnate bonus). That will give you a grant total of +18 to Grapple checks (and +8 on all other Str checks).

Also, Pathfinder nerfs size bonuses, making the above options superior for Grapple if you happen to be playing with that system.

[Keld Denar]

Psionic Half Giant is probably better than Goliath in this case, due to the 2 bonus PP you get. Half Giant still gets Powerful Build, which is good for grappling. Their Stomp PLA is pretty gimp though.

Shape Soulmeld(Kraken Mantle) should be taken at some point, and either take Psionic Open Chakra as a 4th level power, or spend your 12th level feat on Open Lesser Chakra (Arms). Open Lesser Chakra (Arms) DOES give you another +2 unnamed bonus on grapple, which is sweet, but feats are very valuable whereas power are slightly less so. The above combo gives you the Constrict ability. Its not a lot of damage alone, but Constrict applies EVERY time you win a grapple check, regardless of what that check was for. If a foe struggles 3 times and tries to escape your grip, you get to apply Constrict 3 times, and its not even your own turn. Constrict isn't manditory since most of the time if you are grappling, its to take a foe out of the fight so your allies can trash it, or trash its friends without it interfering. Still, its fun to be able to choke someone out purely through the force of their own struggling!

[gallagher]

for a character getting martial study and all that jazz, what is my feat selection? As DM, i am going to handwave away monastic training, as tashlatora monk is just the same as other dual class feats like swift hunter.

Monk2/Psywar6

Monk 1:Improved Grapple
Character 1: Two Weapon Fighting
Monk 2: Tashlatora Monk
PsyWar 1: ?
PsyWar 2: ?
Character 3: ?
Character 6: ?
PsyWar 6: ?

I cant do improved two weapon fighting to two weapon rend yet, as i have a BAB +5 and i need a 6 and a 9, respectively. i want to focus on tiger claw as my martial study.

[Keld Denar]

Actually, if you want to use ToB in your grapple build, you'd be better served witha little Stone Dragon in the form of Martial Study: Mountain Hammer, followed by Martial Stance: Crushing Roots of the Mountain. This gives you constrict, similar to the above mentioned Kraken Mantle. Mountain Hammer can be subbed out for any other Stone Dragon maneuver, I just pick Mountain Hammer for its out-of-combat utility (punch through walls of ANY hardness...with your bum), but you could pick Charging Minotaur or Stone Bones or whatever your IL will qualify you for. Crushing Roots is a 3rd level stance, meaning you can take it as your 10th level feat, which is nice.

I know you want Tiger Claw, but this would be much better, especially at your level.

[gallagher]

thanks for the great advice so far, keld!

this is my guy so far (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=215784)

now i guess i need to figure out what all else he is going to buy

[Keld Denar]

Sorry, my bad. I messed up on the IL you need for Crushing Roots. You need an IL of 10, not 6. So you couldn't have it yet. My appologies.

[Grommen]

Icer "The Self proclaimed God of Grapple suggests"

1 monk, hole bunch of cleric.

Improved Grapple (coarse)
Earth's Embrace (can't remember where that feat comes from)
and a spell from the spell compendium "Fearsom Grapple"
O ya and if and when he needs, he can buff his butt with divine favor, bull's strength, etc.

In pathfinder you can get Greater Grapple just in case.

I'm sure you can find better and nastier combinations but I can attest as DM these things work.

One question though. What's up with the Two Weapon Fighting feat. What does that do for you?

[Greenish]

Psionic Half Giant is probably better than Goliath in this case, due to the 2 bonus PP you get. Half Giant still gets Powerful Build, which is good for grappling. Their Stomp PLA is pretty gimp though.With Tiger Claw maneuvers, the goliath racial Mountain Movement is pretty decent, since it means you can pick a stance other than Leaping Dragon.

[Optimystik]

Psionic Half Giant is probably better than Goliath in this case, due to the 2 bonus PP you get. Half Giant still gets Powerful Build, which is good for grappling. Their Stomp PLA is pretty gimp though.

This bears repeating; You should definitely be a half-giant instead of a Goliath. The psionic flavor is too good to pass up, and if your DM enforces XP penalties you won't have anything to worry about.