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rezplz
2010-06-14, 03:03 AM
So I have this character concept that I'd like to give a try, but I'm not sure exactly how to go about it.

Here's his basic background: He is an actor who stars in action-plays, and also makes a name for himself by challenging people to very public duels. Because he is well-known for this, he has a bit of a problem with ego, especially since he uses finess and skill rather than strength.

What I want him to do: If there is a way for him to be good at dueling - one on one combat - with one, one-handed weapon (preferably a rapier) then that would be ideal. I'd like him to have good INT and CHA scores, so a way for him to benefit in a fight from that would be great. But also, I want him to be by no means the best fighter in the group. He is more like the cocky sidekick who THINKS he's the main hero. The less armor he has to wear, the better.

As for what books to use: I'd rather avoid Tome of Battle, because it seems like that would make him too good. He isn't supposed to be badass really at all. Also, I don't really know tome of battle at all anyway. Other than that, as long as it isn't too obscure, all books should be fine as long as the stuff is relatively easy to learn.

If possible, the build would be best if it was playable anywhere from 1-15. Even if the game goes until level 20 I don't see him surviving that long before I find some cool death scene for him, so he can be badass for a few rounds before dying.

DrGonzo
2010-06-14, 03:21 AM
Play a swashbuckler. They suck at what they do, but the fluff is basically what you describe.

rezplz
2010-06-14, 03:24 AM
I was thinking about that, but yeah, I heard they really suck. I was just a bit too worried he would suck too much, you know? What book are they in again, PHB2?

EnnPeeCee
2010-06-14, 03:28 AM
What about a riposte scout? That'd work well with the 1v1 concept.

Also: Ha, when don't you play an arrogant character? =D

rezplz
2010-06-14, 03:32 AM
What is this riposte scout that you speak of???

And... come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I didn't play an arrogant character. No wait, I think that was Ardil. ;o

PId6
2010-06-14, 03:34 AM
Swashbuckler is in CW. It's good for a three level dip, but terrible beyond that without Daring Outlaw.

Warblade with Diamond Mind would be perfect for what you're trying to get at, but if you want to avoid ToB, Daring Outlaw is probably your best bet. Rogue 4/Swashbuckler X, with the Daring Outlaw feat from Complete Scoundrel. Ideally, you should take the Education feat at 1st level and Knowledge Devotion when you can, letting you put that Int to good use. Able Learner is also good to take, but only if you intend to use skills a lot. Two Weapon Fighting is the most optimized route, but a single weapon is doable. Take the Penetrating Strike ACF from Dungeonscape, as well as the Craven feat from Champions of Ruin.

EnnPeeCee
2010-06-14, 03:37 AM
Scout ACF that gains bonuses after being attacked: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a

Marriclay
2010-06-14, 03:40 AM
My suggestion is to play a Factotum. They're pretty awesome, and being able to do pretty much everything falls under a trope for heroes. This is, they're not so awesome at everything that they could replace say someone actually built for the job. they can't even beat out a fighter in melee combat or a bard in arcane spellcasting. Still a lot more fun to play than a Swashbuckler.

As far as fluff goes, and the way he talks, you should really read the Dresden Files. Harry, the main character, is made of 3 equal parts - Arrogance, Wizardry, and Awesome

2xMachina
2010-06-14, 03:46 AM
Hmm, I'm kind of playing a char like that. Not the cocky type, but the type that don't wear (visible) armor and looks unarmed.

Swashbuckler 3 is good. Maybe Factotum 3 for more Int synergy.

Iaijutsu Master (Katana though) is quite good. (Int to armor, Cha to Init.)

Marshal for Cha maybe?

Murdim
2010-06-14, 05:13 AM
I second Marriclay. Factotum, with (or without) a 3-level dip in Swashbuckler, could do the job. The biggest advantage over deliberately under-powered melee builds like Swashbuckler or Finesse Fighter is that, while your fighting prowess won't go beyond "adapted to dueling, barely decent in real combat situations", you'll have some awesome capabilities as the party's face, skill-monkey and secondary spellcaster. Your character might be deluding himself when thinking he's the party's dedicated badass*, but even so he won't be just another arrogant dead weight. He just won't be aware it's as a supporting character that he's most efficient and valuable.

* Well, rather, he will be badass, but not in the way he pictures himself to be.

Amphetryon
2010-06-14, 05:54 AM
Needs moar Robilar's Gambit.

IdleMuse
2010-06-14, 06:14 AM
Since you don't mind him being actually quite awful in dungeon-esque melee, the Duelist PrC (DMG) might be worth looking at! Usually relegated to the 'hell no' pile due to his inability to wear ANY armour while retaining class features, he still gets a reasonable AC if he has high intelligence, and a fair number of duel-related techniques. It also seems to fit the flavour very well!
You can qualify for Duelist after Swashbuckler 6 without any cheese whatsoever. Or, since the 6th level of Swashbuckler is pretty dead, Swashbuckler 5/Fighter 1 since this build will be pretty feat-heavy.

Feat-wise, the aforementioned Robilar's Gambit comes highly recommended when you can qualify for it, and the Tactical Feats Combat Panache and Einhander seem to suit the style you're going for. Acrobatic Strike might also be worthwhile depending on how dex you want to be. Coincidentally, all of the above are PHBII.

Quietus
2010-06-14, 06:40 AM
I was thinking about that, but yeah, I heard they really suck. I was just a bit too worried he would suck too much, you know? What book are they in again, PHB2?

If you go for four levels of Rogue, then straight Swashbuckler, and grab Daring Outlaw at level 6, you get :

Trapfinding, sneak attack at full character level (3d6), evasion, trap sense, uncanny dodge, weapon finesse, grace+1. At Rogue4/Swash3, you pick up Insightful Strike for int to damage. Using a rapier and light armor, you're gonna get full base attack bonus (well, 1 below that for the first level of Rogue), full sneak attack progression, and a few other nifty but not game-breaking skill-related abilities from Swashbuckler down the line. So long as you stick to using only the one-handed fighting style, you won't really outshine any but the worst melee-types, and Swashbuckler gives you enough skills to maintain basic movement skills for some fancy descriptive stuff. Maybe keep Bluff up for feinting; Improved Feint lets you do that as a Move, when you can't flank. A single sneak attack a round isn't huge, but it's quite flavorful if you're going for the one-on-one dueler angle. Alternatively, Invisible Blade will let you feint as a free action (read : on every attack) if you want to ramp his power up a little, while maintaining full BAB/sneak attack progression.

For low levels, you may want to consider Rogue1/Swash1/Rogue+3/Swash+X, to get that Weapon Finesse bonus feat at level 2.


Sources : Daring Outlaw from Complete Scoundrel, Swashbuckler and Invisible Blade from Complete Warrior.

Amphetryon
2010-06-14, 07:16 AM
Remind me why Rogue 4 is recommended, given that SA goes up on the odds, not the evens?

PId6
2010-06-14, 07:20 AM
Remind me why Rogue 4 is recommended, given that SA goes up on the odds, not the evens?
Daring Outlaw stacks rogue and swashbuckler levels for SA, so it doesn't matter as long as the total number of levels is odd.

AtwasAwamps
2010-06-14, 08:24 AM
Let me ask you, how married are you to the one-handed rapier duelist?

I ask because if you really want to play a fighter like this, you could try and take EWP: Elven (whateverblade)…I think its in complete warrior…which is a two-handed weapon you can apply weapon finesse to and resembles a very long rapier. You can also apply power attack to it. This results in you being able to pull off all the standard melee tricks while using a finessable weapon that ISN’T the spiked chain.

If you’d rather NOT take this kind of thing, I strongly recommend using the Daring Outlaw set up posted by a few other posters, with a few extra twists. Try to grab Combat Panache and Einhander as feats. Einhander is not particularly good, but IS in theme. Combat Panache actually works quite well and does almost exactly what you want.

You could also optimize party-face-ability as recommended a few times. I might consider a level or two in bard for this, especially as a stage performer-type character.

Person_Man
2010-06-14, 08:40 AM
Is homebrew viable? Here's one I made shortly after Pathfinder came out for one of my player's:

The Duelist

Prerequisites: +6 BAB, Dodge, Weapon Finesse, Tumble 4 ranks

{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +1 | +0| +1 | +0 | Canny Defense, Precise Strike
2nd | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Parry
3rd | +3 | +1 | +2 | +1 | Grace
4th | +4 | +1 | +2 | +1 | Cunning Reflexes
5th | +5 | +2 | +3 | +2 | Acrobatic Charge
6th | +6 | +2 | +3 | +2 | Riposte
7th | +7 | +2 | +4 | +2 | Elaborate Defense
8th | +8 | +3 | +4 | +3 | Evasion
9th | +9 | +3 | +5 | +3 | Advance
10th | +10 | +3| +5 | +3 | Crippling Strike
[/table]

Canny Defense (Ex): When wearing light or no armor and not using a shield, a duelist adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per duelist class level to her Dexterity bonus to modify Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon. If a duelist is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied her Dexterity bonus, she also loses this bonus.

Precise Strike (Ex): A duelist gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing weapon, adding her duelist level to her damage roll. A duelist's precise strike only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also immune to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.

In addition, when making a precise strike a duelist cannot attack using two hands or use a shield. This restriction also applies to the duelist's Parry, Riposte, Elaborate Defense, and Crippling Strike abilities.

Parry (Ex): Whenever you or an adjacent ally is attacked by a melee, ranged, or thrown weapon, you may attempt to Parry it as an Immediate Action. If you choose to use this ability, you must declare that you are using it after your enemy successfully hits but before the DM announces damage or effects of the attack. Make a melee attack roll, adding your Intelligence modifier as bonus to hit. If your modified attack roll is higher then the enemy’s modified attack roll, the attack is negated.

Grace (Ex): Any Dodge bonus that you possess from any feat or class ability now applies to all enemies. You no longer need to "designate" one foe. This includes the AC bonus, as well as any special abilities or feats that rely on the Dodge ability, such as the Elusive Target feat. In addition, you may add any Dodge bonus to AC that you possess from any feat or class ability as an Insight bonus to your Reflex Save and Initiative checks as well.

Cunning Reflexes (Ex): You gain Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat. If you already have Combat Reflexes, you may choose any other feat that you qualify for in it's place.

In addition, you may add your Intelligence bonus as a bonus to hit on any attack of opportunity. You may use this ability once per round.

Acrobatic Charge (Ex): When you Charge you may make up to two 45 degree turns at any point during your Charge. You may also Charge over difficult terrain, through occupied squares, or by swinging on a rope/chain/etc in the direction of your enemy (though you may still need to make appropriate checks to successfully move over the terrain). You also gain the Pounce ability (you may make a full attack when you Charge).

Riposte (Ex): A duelist can make an attack of opportunity against any creature whose attack she successfully Parries, so long as the creature she is attacking is within reach.

Elaborate Defense (Ex): You gain Improved Disarm as a bonus feat. If you already possess this feat, you may choose any other feat that you qualify for in it's place.

In addition, when an enemy attacks you and misses (either because it failed to hit your AC or because you successfully used Parry to block the attack) you may make a Disarm attempt as an attack of opportunity. You may use this ability once per round.

Evasion (Ex): You gain the Evasion ability. If you already have the Evasion ability, you gain Improved Evasion instead.

Advance (Ex): Whenever an enemy within your threatened area makes a 5 ft step, you may also make a 5ft step as a Free Action. This does not prevent you from moving normally or taking another 5ft step on your turn.

Crippling Strike (Ex): Whenever you successfully use the Precise Strike ability and threaten a critical hit, you also deal 1 point of Dexterity damage and reduce all of the target's speeds by 5 ft (minimum 5 ft). The movement penalties from multiple Crippling Strikes stack, and each penalty lasts until the target has repaired the Dexterity damage from the Crippling Strike that imposed it.

Other non-Tome of Battle, non-full caster, non-garbage melee options include Knight, Duskblade, Binder, Incarnate, Totemist, Psychic Warrior, Bard, or Factotum. Any of them could be re-fluffed to fit with what you want, with Knight, Factotum, or Bard being the easiest fits.

Amphetryon
2010-06-14, 08:40 AM
I ask because if you really want to play a fighter like this, you could try and take EWP: Elven (whateverblade)…I think its in complete warrior…which is a two-handed weapon you can apply weapon finesse to and resembles a very long rapier. You can also apply power attack to it. This results in you being able to pull off all the standard melee tricks while using a finessable weapon that ISN’T the spiked chain.Elven Courtblade, Races of the Wild. [/nitpick]

Quietus
2010-06-14, 05:34 PM
Remind me why Rogue 4 is recommended, given that SA goes up on the odds, not the evens?

Because you end up with Rogue4/SwashbucklerX, and sneak attack as a Rogue of level 4+X. That is, a Rogue4/swash1 sneak attacks at a 5th level Rogue, losing nothing. I chose Rogue4 because it's the last Rogue level that gets you BAB, and also nabs you Uncanny Dodge, which the Swashbuckler doesn't get otherwise.

gorfnab
2010-06-14, 10:02 PM
One of the homebrew dashing swordsman prestige classes might work.
The Demented One's Dashing Swordsman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29882)
OOTS Wiki Dashing Swordsman (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Dashing_Swordsman)
D&D Wiki Dashing Swordsman (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dashing_Swordsman_%283.5e_Prestige_Class%29)

Flickerdart
2010-06-14, 10:04 PM
Well, if you take Monk, the Unarmed Strike lets you duel with your... hrm.

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-14, 10:23 PM
Factotum, at least up to 3, then follow with more factotum, or perhaps some bard. Focus on Int and bardic music (Perform: Stage Combat), as well as Tumble, and grab some skill tricks and perhaps some psionic feats (Up the Walls!) for that Errol Flynn feel. Boost your inspire courage, and flavor it as your bravado making your party (and your foes) actually think you're competent, and talking up your allies, when you're actually just play-fighting (but using a real sword, and actually dealing actual damage without actually meaning to). Once you've taken enough levels for all the bardic music you want (say, 6 levels or so), then head toward more factotum, or perhaps for a PrC of some sort.

In other words, he's competent more or less by accident.

[edit] By the way, I've currently got a bard 3/crusader 1/warblade 1 who's extremely competent in a fight (and is the party face), which can get +8 to his inspire courage, via Words of Creation, Song of the Heart, inspirational boost, and a badge of valor. It's not a bad deal at all.

Saint GoH
2010-06-14, 10:40 PM
Hrmmm... Im leaning towards 2xMachina on this one.

3 levels of Swashbuckler will get you Int to damage, and Iaijutsu Master from Oriental Adventures is exactly the type of character who duels. Pump Initiative with a high Dex and a decent Cha so you always go first, and get Daring outlaw so you pump some sneak attack out as well as Iaijutsu damage. Craven of course, is also a necessity.

PId6
2010-06-15, 04:30 AM
Hrmmm... Im leaning towards 2xMachina on this one.

3 levels of Swashbuckler will get you Int to damage, and Iaijutsu Master from Oriental Adventures is exactly the type of character who duels. Pump Initiative with a high Dex and a decent Cha so you always go first, and get Daring outlaw so you pump some sneak attack out as well as Iaijutsu damage. Craven of course, is also a necessity.
I love Iaijutsu Master, but a problem with that plan is that in order to competently focus on Iaijutsu Focus, you'd have to either use a Quickrazor or carry around a Quiver of Ehlonna full of katanas and draw twenty of them every combat, neither of which contributes much to the "duelist" feel.

2xMachina
2010-06-15, 04:56 AM
It's less than optimum, but a single Iaijutsu strike is not that bad (especially at low lvls, where you don't get many attacks).

I prefer to pair it with Invisible Blade, and Surprising Riposte. Need some DM adjustment though. (to fix IB, to get IB to work with Katana, and that IB gives the feat Improved Feint rather than just the effect.) Int to AC, Int to AC again, limited by IB class lvls. No armor. Get a Carmendine/Kung Fu monk's belt for more Int to AC. (again DM)

Or just get a Collar of Perpetual Attendance who drops marbles. Balancing = Flat footed.

dr.cello
2010-06-15, 05:47 AM
When I had a similar concept I was fond of Rogue 4/Swashbuckler X with Daring Outlaw. If you prefer the roguish side you can dip Swashbuckler and take Daring Outlaw and do mostly Rogue. (Thief-Acrobat is probably not a bad choice here, though it's almost entirely defensive and mobile in nature.)

In any case, I tried to take skill tricks (Complete Scoundrel) and feats that would let me get sneak attack a number of different ways besides just flanking and Improved Feint. It makes combat feel a little more like swashbuckling.

Pluto
2010-06-15, 01:42 PM
I rather fancy Stormwracks' Scarlet Corsair (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050805b) for this.

It's a full BA class that progresses Sneak Attack and gives a ship-specific AC boost.

But the real beauty is that it incorporates Charisma skills into melee combat and does so well. It extends demoralize and turns it into an area effect, it makes feinting feasible in combat and lets you trade SA damage for shaken effects.

Add the Drow of the Underdark feats Imperious Command and Surprising Riposte and you'll have a competent Charisma-based swordsman. You can mix in CoR's Craven too, if you don't mind the fear vulnerability.

Sneak Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) Thug (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) Fighter 5 with Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) sub levels and Skilled City Dweller (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) for Tumble ranks would make a decent lead-in and would be melee competent even from low levels.

Greenish
2010-06-15, 02:22 PM
Rogue3/CCleric1/SwashbucklerX with Daring Outlaw.

The cleric dip gives you turn attempts to burn, for example to add your Charisma bonus to damage (Divine Might), move your speed as a swift action (Travel Devotion, which you can get free with the cleric level) and other goodies.

Picking Magic domain means you can use all sorc/wiz wands (in addition to all cleric wands) without UMD. Knowledge Devotion requires you to spend one of your 1st level feats on Education, but gives a nice to-hit/damage boost for your troubles, in addition to letting you be an annoying know-it-all.

Telling Blow lets you apply your SA damage when you crit, which is reasonable often with a Keen rapier.

Non-cloistered cleric wouldn't get hit to BAB with fractionals. Oh well.

[Edit]:
Sneak Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) Thug (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) Fighter 5 with Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) sub levelsSadly, the Zhentarim substitution levels reduce your skill points, while they have no adverse effect for standard fighters.

Human Paragon 3
2010-06-15, 02:31 PM
I think you could go Rogue into Virtuoso (acting is your perform skill). That would grant you inspire courage etc. without casting.

Or go Marshal for a cha-based warrior.

AtwasAwamps
2010-06-15, 02:31 PM
Rogue3/CCleric1/SwashbucklerX with Daring Outlaw.


...You just gave me an idea for a wonderful character concept...

Greenish
2010-06-15, 02:36 PM
...You just gave me an idea for a wonderful character concept...I've always been fond of clerics of gods who have less than uptight approach to minor stuff such as personal property or honourable combat. :smallwink:

Jack Zander
2010-06-15, 04:59 PM
I'll be brave and suggest straight up rogue. Now I'll make an even bolder suggestion:

Make an improved feint build. No seriously, try it. It is optimized? Hell no. It is fun and the exact flavor you are looking for? Hell yes! Can your character still be a viable party member? Definitely.

Only two abilities needed are DEX and CHA (and a 13 INT). You'll want bluff and tumble, the rest of the skills are icing. Boost bluff as high as you can afford to. Two feats required: Combat Expertise and Improved Feint (Weapon Finese is suggested but not required depending on your STR). Use as many resources as you can afford to to bring your AC as high as possible.

Every round of combat put your full BAB into your AC through combat expertise (and fight defensively, I'm fairly certain that you can stack them). Block doorways, challenge the BBEG to a one on one fight while the part takes out the mooks, jump into the center of an army of mooks yourself, whatever you have to do to get enemies to pay attention to you and single you out for attacks. Then feint to get your enemies to lose their DEX to AC and all of the sudden you have a chance of hitting them again (you can even stop fighting defensively and lose as much combat expertise as you feel comfortable with to get that big finishing strike in). Now, all your combats will be long drawn out duels as you parry each others blows back and forth until you can get a successful feint and sneak attack in.

Congratulations, you now have a character I like to call Perry Fenserson! Excels at dueling, never being hit by anything but magic missiles, and the party skill-monkey. Bonus points for being 100% Core, though you can certainly make this build more viable outside of Core.

For more flavor I suggest dumping CON so you can dodge anything but can't ever take a hit or you're out for that fight.

Greenish
2010-06-15, 05:12 PM
I'll be brave and suggest straight up rogue. Now I'll make an even bolder suggestion:

Make an improved feint build. No seriously, try it. It is optimized? Hell no. It is fun and the exact flavor you are looking for? Hell yes! Can your character still be a viable party member? Definitely.

Only two abilities needed are DEX and CHA (and a 13 INT). You'll want bluff and tumble, the rest of the skills are icing. Boost bluff as high as you can afford to. Two feats required: Combat Expertise and Improved Feint (Weapon Finese is suggested but not required depending on your STR). Use as many resources as you can afford to to bring your AC as high as possible.

Every round of combat put your full BAB into your AC through combat expertise (and fight defensively, I'm fairly certain that you can stack them). Block doorways, challenge the BBEG to a one on one fight while the part takes out the mooks, jump into the center of an army of mooks yourself, whatever you have to do to get enemies to pay attention to you and single you out for attacks. Then feint to get your enemies to lose their DEX to AC and all of the sudden you have a chance of hitting them again (you can even stop fighting defensively and lose as much combat expertise as you feel comfortable with to get that big finishing strike in). Now, all your combats will be long drawn out duels as you parry each others blows back and forth until you can get a successful feint and sneak attack in.

Congratulations, you now have a character I like to call Perry Fenserson! Excels at dueling, never being hit by anything but magic missiles, and the party skill-monkey. Bonus points for being 100% Core, though you can certainly make this build more viable outside of Core.

For more flavor I suggest dumping CON so you can dodge anything but can't ever take a hit or you're out for that fight.Ah, re-reading OP I notice he doesn't want the character to be good at fighting. Your suggested build definitely nails that. :smallcool:

More seriously, the Einhander feat from PHBII seems to have been designed for such a character.

The Telling Blow lets you apply SA when you crit, and since such a character would only hit with a really good roll, that'd help the duelist aspect.

Jack Zander
2010-06-15, 05:25 PM
Ah, re-reading OP I notice he doesn't want the character to be good at fighting. Your suggested build definitely nails that. :smallcool:

Well so far I've been the only one to keep true to that theme.


More seriously, the Einhander feat from PHBII seems to have been designed for such a character.

I'd advise against that and instead get a mithril buckler for cheap AC. (Unless that feat can outshine a buckler's AC bonus. I admit I have no idea what that feat does aside from it requires you to have nothing in your off hand.)


The Telling Blow lets you apply SA when you crit, and since such a character would only hit with a really good roll, that'd help the duelist aspect.

That would be useful for those times that he cannot feint, or fails to feint, but usually getting a successful strike in isn't too hard if he drops his combat expertise and defensive fighting after getting a successful feint.

Greenish
2010-06-15, 05:30 PM
I'd advise against that and instead get a mithril buckler for cheap AC. (Unless that feat and outshine buckler's AC bonus. I admit I have no idea what that feat does aside from it requires you to have nothing in your off hand.)+2 Dodge AC when fighting defensively. Special feint as a free action, though that use Sleight of Hand instead of Bluff. All in all, it's a pretty poor feat, and thus perfectly in line with the build.

Jack Zander
2010-06-15, 05:41 PM
+2 Dodge AC when fighting defensively. Special feint as a free action, though that use Sleight of Hand instead of Bluff. All in all, it's a pretty poor feat, and thus perfectly in line with the build.

Feint as a free action is actually really useful and frees up the need for CHA and a feat. So I'd say that's probably worth the AC bonus that an enchanted buckler would give. Now the build can move then feint and still attack all in one round. There are no such things as poor feats, just feats that have a very narrow use among builds.

Greenish
2010-06-15, 05:47 PM
Feint as a free action is actually really usefulHold your horses. You can only use the special feint once against a given opponent. Sure, it'll work (if it does) against mooks, but a recurring opponent…

There are no such things as poor feats, just feats that have a very narrow use among builds.Yes, there are poor feats. Some of them are never worth taking. Many aren't even worth the paper they were printed on. Some of the latter wouldn't be worth the paper even in virtual format.

Jack Zander
2010-06-15, 05:48 PM
Hold your horses. You can only use the special feint once against a given opponent. Sure, it'll work (if it does) against mooks, but a recurring opponent…

Ah never mind, that is really bad then.

Wonton
2010-06-15, 05:56 PM
It's really a shame that except for TWF and two-handed Greataxe swinging, the D&D system doesn't seem to support a lot of martial styles, as evidenced by the fact that Einhander is completely worthless. I once wanted to make an Avenging Executioner that fights with one dagger, but there's approximately nothing to support that kind of thing.

Greenish
2010-06-15, 06:08 PM
It's really a shame that except for TWF and two-handed Greataxe swinging, the D&D system doesn't seem to support a lot of martial styles, as evidenced by the fact that Einhander is completely worthless. I once wanted to make an Avenging Executioner that fights with one dagger, but there's approximately nothing to support that kind of thing.*cough*ToB*cough*