How to throw Gnomes [3.5]

[strider24seven]

Inspired by some silliness at the BG fora, I thought up a crazy idea:

A Goliath with Knockback, Fling Ally/Enemy, Shock Trooper, and Improved Trip (and all the prereq's, of course) with levels in Dungeoncrasher Fighter and Bloodstorm Blade. You can fling Gnomes, knock people back with them, knock them into walls, knock them into each other, and have your Gnomes return to your hands, unharmed.

It's a novelty, until you take Vow of Poverty or levels in Kensai. Then you can enchant your Gnomes. Can you imagine a +5 Vorpal, Returning, Spell Storing Gnome?

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Builds would be welcome.

[elonin]

Just for personal style reasons I'd try to use dwarfs or hobbits. I'll admit that dwarfs would be harder cause of their medium size but still. Don't forget to take leadership for limitless ammo.

Off topic a bit but in a game I played in there was a 1/2 giant type who misunderstood how trap finding was supposed to work. We did have a 1/2 ling that he would chuck into areas where he guessed traps were. Didn't end well at all.

[Flickerdart]

If your gnomes are Monks, you can get free Adamantine and Lawful on them.

[gallagher]

If your gnomes are Monks, you can get free Adamantine and Lawful on them.

have a wizard cast a contingency spell on the character (if it is a monk, evasion will help him take no damage from a contingency fireball. or maybe contingency enlarge, so that you have a medium sized halfling that you threw as a small.

[gorfnab]

Take leadership, obviously, for more gnome ammo. Have your gnome cohort be a dragonfire inspiration bard so then you could have flaming gnomes (better if you can go with sonic from Battle Dragon heritage).

[Darrin]

A Goliath with Knockback, Fling Ally/Enemy, Shock Trooper, and Improved Trip (and all the prereq's, of course) with levels in Dungeoncrasher Fighter and Bloodstorm Blade.


Why do people keep suggesting these horrible feats? You want to avoid Fling Ally/Enemy, because they require a standard action to throw, and this limits you to one Flung Ally/Enemy per round. Dip a level of Hulking Hurler for Throw Anything, and you can throw as many allies/enemies as you have iterative attacks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107248) and can get your hands on.

Or is Hulking Hurler almost always banned?

[Fouredged Sword]

almost always, but so is gnome flinging in most games. I am fairly sure that use as ammo is considered mistreating your followers. What you need to do is use Psy war to go into thral heard one level. Now you don't care about mistreating them, or even if you run out of gnomes for a day. They all come back the next day!

PS give them armor spikes! Flameing armor spikes! Vow of poverty says nothing about follower wealth!

PSS blood storm blade is for getting around the attack economy for the feat I think. It's to late to look up how though.

[Flickerdart]

Hurler will probably pulverize the gnomes on impact.

[Grommen]

I think "Throw Anything" might have limits (though I'm thinking hard on this).

Back in the day (it was a Tuesday) their existed a thing called a "Halfling Handle". We didn't toss gnomes back then we tossed Halflings. Mine had a +2 Dragon Slayer short sword. This worked out great with the party's barbarian, when fighting dragons. I could add the Barbarians strength damage to the 2x damage done by the sword when hitting a dragon! However the Barbarian critted once, but the poor halfling fumbled...We had to get a new halfling after that. Sad times...:smallsigh:

O ya anyway "The Halfling Handle" was a magical device. It was a simple handle, but when affixed to the back of a halfling (or small sized creature) it affixed like super glue and allowed the wielder of the handle to fling the attached person with the Strength of a giant (I believe like a Stone Giant). Worked out great, but we tended to go through a lot of Halflings this way.

And a note on Leadership feat. It sais in the book that if your mean to your henchmen they will not follow you. Using gnomes as ammo is kinda mean, so you might need a slightly, dare I say, dumer munition.

Consider switching to snotlings if possible (those of you that know 40K are laffing your ass off right now).

[Dusk Eclipse]

+1 to thrallherd idea! thrwo liitle balls of steel (AKA GNOMES IN SPIKED FULLPLATE)

[Beorn080]

+1 to thrallherd idea! thrwo liitle balls of steel (AKA GNOMES IN SPIKED FULLPLATE)

Waste of good fullplate. Spiked Padded would probably be optimal.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Waste of good fullplate. Spiked Padded would probably be optimal.

You are a thrallherd, t least one thrall can craft the fullplates

[strider24seven]

Waste of good fullplate. Spiked Padded would probably be optimal.

But you can't put armor spikes on padded armor...
Edit: It has to be medium armor or greater, IIRC.

And the only reason I suggested Fling Ally/Enemy is to have versatility.
"Oh, I ran out of Gnomes? I'll just throw this handy-dandy enemy wizard!"

Of course Hulking Hurler is more powerful. I suppose this is a theoretical build, so every little bit helps. And a dip in Thrallherd provides ammo. How nice. "Follow the jolly green giant, little folk..." Although the character is exalted...

Also, I'm AFB now, so would any of the Master Thrower Tricks work on Gnomes?

[Dusk Eclipse]

But you can't put armor spikes on padded armor...
Edit: It has to be medium armor or greater, IIRC.

And the only reason I suggested Fling Ally/Enemy is to have versatility.
"Oh, I ran out of Gnomes? I'll just throw this handy-dandy enemy wizard!"

Of course Hulking Hurler is more powerful. I suppose this is a theoretical build, so every little bit helps. And a dip in Thrallherd provides ammo. How nice. "Follow the jolly green giant, little folk..." Although the character is exalted...

Also, I'm AFB now, so would any of the Master Thrower Tricks work on Gnomes?
I suppose so, IIRC Master Thtower abilities only refer to throwing weapons, and due your gnomes being considered throwing weapons If I were your DM I would say yes, mainly on the grounds of rule of funny/awesome

[IdleMuse]

Also, I'm AFB now, so would any of the Master Thrower Tricks work on Gnomes?

Trip Shot? :) Deadetye shot will increase the crit multiplierof your gnome/hobbit, Doubletoss will allow you to throw two at once.

[strider24seven]

So a level or two of Master Thrower to get Doubletoss may be in order.

Just out of curiosity, can you use MT throw tricks with the Bloodstorm Blade abilities? Bloodstorm Blade lets you treat your throws as a melee attack at range, so would that exclude your MT tricks?

Edit: Trip shot would be cool, but Bloodstorm Blade+Knockback+Shocktrooper lets you trip multiple foes AND bullrush them. Battlefield control with GNOMES (or halflings).

[Faleldir]

What happens if your partner is a Barbarian with Battle Jump?

[Keld Denar]

Hmmmm, yea, that would be an interesting idea. If you threw gnomish barbarians with Battle Jump, and you threw them in an arc with a little bit of hang time, the resulting fall would give them enough powah to execute a Battle Jump. Granted, you'd probably lose YOUR Str bonus to damage, given that you are using most of your strength to heave them vertically, rather than horizontally, but at least the falling gnome would deal double damage due to Battle Jump.

There was an old trap in the 2e netbook of tricks and traps that involved a long dungeon hallway with a high ceiling, a couple of cheaply crafted catapults, a like number of ogres to operate, and a couple dozen kobalds. The resulting kobaldapult did equal damage to the target as it did to the ammo, but if the shot missed, the kobalds could tuck and roll, generally standing up in a position to flank the party. Hillarity ensues.

[Beorn080]

Hmmmm, yea, that would be an interesting idea. If you threw gnomish barbarians with Battle Jump, and you threw them in an arc with a little bit of hang time, the resulting fall would give them enough powah to execute a Battle Jump. Granted, you'd probably lose YOUR Str bonus to damage, given that you are using most of your strength to heave them vertically, rather than horizontally, but at least the falling gnome would deal double damage due to Battle Jump.

There was an old trap in the 2e netbook of tricks and traps that involved a long dungeon hallway with a high ceiling, a couple of cheaply crafted catapults, a like number of ogres to operate, and a couple dozen kobalds. The resulting kobaldapult did equal damage to the target as it did to the ammo, but if the shot missed, the kobalds could tuck and roll, generally standing up in a position to flank the party. Hillarity ensues.

You might lose your STR bonus, but you gain falling item damage in addition to double damage from Battle Jump. Throw the gnomes high enough for 20d6 fall damage to whatever they hit. Whirlwind attack might be useful too, so you can throw the gnomes into the middle of a pack of enemies and hit them all at once for double damage. At least if those two stack.

[Gametime]

Just for personal style reasons I'd try to use dwarfs or hobbits. I'll admit that dwarfs would be harder cause of their medium size but still. Don't forget to take leadership for limitless ammo.



Hobbits, maybe, but nobody tosses a DWARF!

Also, make sure you enchant one of your throwing gnomes with Brilliant Energy, so you can toss them through walls and let them go scouting. (The "significant portion" part may be up for debate, but since the whole gnome is an improvised weapon I'd say you have a strong argument for it's entire body becoming energy.)

[VirOath]

I don't know why, but now I have the image of a druid throwing summoned dire badgers...

[Keld Denar]

Better than throwing Dire Badgers would be throwing Dire Weasels. Weasels have a nasty Attach ability, and Con drain is ALWAYS a bad thing. Super Lunar Mega Esanguination Attack GOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Beorn080]

Query: If you use Gnomes as improvised melee weapons, and use Kensai or VoP to enchant them with Dancing (Not sure if that works), what sorts of attacks do they get?

[Keld Denar]

What if you took 2 gnomes, handcuffed them together, and wielded them together? Gnome-chucks? I think it would be safe to assume that its an exotic, improvised weapon, and stack on the penalities unless you took Martial Weapon Proficency (Gnome) and Exotic Weapon Proficency (Gnome-chucks)...

I sense much yo dawg jokes and lulz approaching.

[VirOath]

Query: If you use Gnomes as improvised melee weapons, and use Kensai or VoP to enchant them with Dancing (Not sure if that works), what sorts of attacks do they get?

Doesn't work with Kensai. That requires you to be using a natural, or masterwork weapon. Gnomes aren't masterworked, or natural :smallbiggrin:

[Flickerdart]

Doesn't work with Kensai. That requires you to be using a natural, or masterwork weapon. Gnomes aren't masterworked, or natural :smallbiggrin:
Gnomes are natural. Pseudonatural Paragon Dire Gnomes aren't.

[UndeadCleric]

Anyone care to actual stat out eat level? What classes/feats to take at what levels?

[strider24seven]

Personally, I would be a Goliath and go at least 6 levels in Dungeoncrasher Fighter, then probably some levels in Hulking Hurler and Kensai, and take VoP as late as possible so you can buy tomes of strength. Take Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, Shock Trooper, Knockback, and possibly Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. That's a lot of feats, though, so depending on the availability of flaws, you may need to pick and choose.

I'm pretty sure any DM who is willing to let you have Weapon Focus (Gnome) will let you have levels in Kensai so you can have Weapon of Choice (Gnome). Either way, VoP lets you have up to +5 Gnomes anyway. I'd love to have Brilliant Energy Gnomes, just so I can have LAZER GNOMES!1!:smallcool:

You could also throw a Gnome with Battle Jump that has levels in Black Blood Cultist, to grapple your foes and Savage Grapple them. Then you throw Savage Gnomes.

[Draz74]

What if, instead of levels in Kensai, you make the Gnome take levels of Monk and Kensai and enchant himself?

[Keld Denar]

If a gnome monk/kensi had brilliant energy though, you'd have no where to hold him by, and he would fall through the earth if he ever stepped off the lawn. Hmmmm....lawn....gnome....LAWN GNOMES! Thats why they can't escape! Egads!

[Faleldir]

Brilliant Energy only phases through nonliving matter. You can hold a BE gnome just fine, but only once unless it's Returning.

[Beorn080]

Well, as long as the ammo has sufficient fire resistance to withstand core temp, a brilliant energy gnome will eventually return. Actually, I think that if you stand still long enough after missing, and it doesn't hit a tree or something, you'll get hit in the back of the head.

[Gametime]

So now our priority is to weaponize pure energy gnome slingshots by utilizing the Material Plane's gravity?

I like it!

[Endarire]

Morphing Ball (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6086.0).

[strider24seven]

Morphing Ball (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6086.0).

This was the silliness I was referring to when I opened this thread.

Looking at it again, I'd really enjoy throwing +1 Brilliant Energy Explosive Gnomes. :smallbiggrin:

For all you pro-Gnome-ists out there, I bear nothing against Gnomes; they are simply the most humorous race to enchant, throw, and explode. They also have the HP to survive an impact. Elves are an interesting alternative... at least to Barbarians who don't tolerate that kind of sissiness.