View Full Version : [4e] Ranger|Avenger hybrid

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-15, 07:36 PM
How well does the classes mesh in hybrid? I was trying to come up with a good idea for a Balinor (eberron god) avenger, and the idea to hybridize him with ranger, it is at least fitting fluffwise, but the crunch is what its a bit iffy IMO.

Browsing over the character builder it says that the tertiary stat of rangers is wisdom with dex as secondary, while avengers have Wisdom, Dexterity... at a glance I think it migh be possible but my knowledge (and experience) with 4e is rather limites so I want to ask the more versed minds of the playground.

Thanks in advance

2010-06-15, 07:37 PM
Tell us more about what you want mechanically. Avengers and Rangers are both strikers, but Rangers are more about damage and Avengers have a little bit of control. Rangers are also much simpler to play.

Would you rather have a simple damage-y character or a more complex (potentially less effective) character with control? You might also be better served by a MC Ranger/Avenger or Avenger/Ranger, if the only reason you want to mix them is for fluff.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-15, 07:43 PM
Well I don't have a set idea, just brainstorming what would be a replacement character in case my kobold assassin dies (almost happened last session... stupid scouting duties and stupid swarms).

But I am one of the main damage dealers of the party, we got quite a bit of battlefield control (2 leaders one mobility enchancing and 2 wizards) so the damage department is mine, so yeah a more striker-ish would be the best option

2010-06-15, 07:45 PM
In that case I'd suggest a melee ranger with avenger MC. I'd talk to your DM about homebrewing an avenger MC feat that gave you channel divinity, then take some CD feats for Balinor.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-15, 07:48 PM
And if I am married to avenger, how would an avenger with MC ranger would work?

2010-06-15, 07:48 PM
Mmkay, so of course you'll want Pursuit.

Since you're in Eberron, I'd go Longtooth Shifter for the best fluff. However, if you are partial to elves or minotaur (yes minotaur), they're another valid choice.

Now here's the thing... You're looking at having to ditch your Avenger riders. Melee Rangers rely on Strength, and Avengers on Wis. Oath of Enmity does not work at a range with powers, but it is MONEY. However, to REALLY get the most out of your Avenger powers, you'll want a high Dex as well.

It's possible, but it's gonna require a bit of crippling yourself in the process. What stat array are you thinking?

Personally I'd settle for 16 Str 16 12 Dex. This would keep your to hit and damage rolls more or less even, which is nice if you don't wanna play favorites.

Personally I'd recommend you change this idea for an MC for Ranger Stances. It would be more optimized, and if you do it early on you'll still be recognized as the "Avenger/Ranger" instead of the "Avenger who picked up some woodland skills during his adventures".

However, I see the appeal of Hybridding this character, and think it would be awesome no matter what. What are you thinking so far?


Married to Avenger? Cool, I'm familiar with that build! Do it for the Stances. They get awesome and if you have Melee Training (WIS).

2010-06-15, 07:48 PM
(EDIT: Still on the Hybrid idea:)

You shouldn't be too MAD; you should be ok with just pumping DEX and WIS. Before Martial Power 2, I might say that would make you too torn between melee and ranged attacks, but MP2 gave Rangers a decent array of DEX-based melee, as well as some sweet bonuses for switching between melee and ranged frequently.

The bigger problem is that you can't get Oath of Enmity and Hunter's Quarry to both trigger on the same attack, and if you only get to use one of them per round, together they'll be a lame class feature considering the parts of both classes that you're giving up. If you take plenty of attack powers that are Minor Actions or Immediate Actions, though, this disadvantage will go away.

2010-06-15, 07:53 PM
And if I am married to avenger, how would an avenger with MC ranger would work?

I, personally, would take the ranger utility powers instead of the attack powers just because it would give the character a more ranger-y feel that way. But that's likely not the most optimal choice.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-15, 07:55 PM
hmm so getting minor or move action powers to get both oath and quarry is the best option... sounds right, question is are there enough powers and readily available?

and just for completeness sake, we are not playing in eberron it is a homebrewed world, where almost all good exist but they are not the same as in the normal settings, for example Tiamat is Unaligned and the traveles has something to do with Ioun... so I don't know how Balinor would be changed.

2010-06-16, 01:08 AM
I too was looking at a Ranger/Avenger Hybrid but from a different angle - see Hijack below :)

I really wanted to use the Avenger's Oath with twin strike - who doesn't love rolling dice? and personally I hate missing (My Barbarian died cause he never connected after using an action point - but that's another story ...)

However Avenger Hybrids can only use the Oath with Avenger Powers (correct?) Therefore I had to look at it from a different angle and opted to MC the Avenger - there are 2 MC options but I like the Wis 13 requirement one where you can use your oath until the end of your next turn. So Rnd1:Move/Minor(Oath)/Standard (Twin Stike?) then Action Point to Standard (Twin Strike or some other nasty attack - I can't miss yes? - especially if Human with Action Surge) then Rnd2: Another attack with my Oath (and now my next turn is over so so is my oath power). So that is 2 or 3 standard action "Ranger" attacks using the Avenger's Oath power per encounter.

Now to hijack - I am currently using an Avenger in Scales of War (Replacing Barbarian) and so far I have missed only twice in the last couple of modules.

However our DM is currently converting Age of Worms and wants us to have only 1 character each (we are 2 players and 1 DM) instead of a character and a companion. So my thinking is to have either a Battle Cleric or Paladin as one of our two characters so we have half a chance to survive. But I am currently examining the possibilities of a Hybrid Ranger/Cleric with MC Avenger. I need to be Human as I need the feats and the extra power is very nice for hybrids. At any rate I think the Cleric/Ranger works well and the Avenger re-rolls are a bonus. So for me MC the Avenger rather than hybrid it.

2010-06-16, 02:28 PM
I'm not sure about how this would work fluff wise but your best bet is something like this:

Half-Elf Avenger Mc Ranger/Ardent Champion/ED of your choice

Your array at lvl 1:

Str: 12
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha: 12

youll be stuck with low starting stats which oath and armor of faith will fix for you though no worries. Bump Dex and Wis every time and if you miss your stat points pick an ED that gives you +2s.

Step 1: The point of this being you take twin strike as your half elf at will. It will be of little use through heroic tier but its only an encounter power then anyways so most half elves get minimal mileage out of it. Then you hit paragon and pick up 2 feats. One turns it into a true at will. The other lets you use wisdom for your attack and damage roll with twin strike. Fun!

Step 2: Take Two weapon fighting and and Two weapon opening and a Ranger MC of your choice. Id recommend two bladed warrior and thats what your STR score is for. At paragon it will hit the 13 u need. You don't need these feats til paragon because the avenger has almost 0 natural multi attacks and none need two weapons.

Step 3: Paragon Path and Rending weapons. In paragon tier you'll be coring crits on 20s and also when your oath dice comes up the same. Nice! Whenever you hit one of these crits, you get to make 3 basic attacks against the target! Which gives you even more chance to crit again. Youll need to make sure ur MBAs are effective, so you need Power of Skill feat or if you dont like have a domain feat from skill for fluff reasons, then you take melee training.

Step 4: Paragon Feats: You select Nerathan High Blade Student and Duelist. These feats combined give you the following: +2 to endurance, You cant be flanked, and most importantly it gives you a list of 6 ranger powers that can use dex instead of str for. Power swap for whichever you like.

Step 5: Epic tier. At 21, you pick up divine guidance no questions asked. Now you crit on 19,20 and when you roll doubles. And all hell breaks lose when you do. Your next feat should be slashing storm which is a ranger/fighter feat that basically gives you an aura 1 wis mod damage when ever you hit something. Two more feats should absolutely be used for more power swapping into you ranger class. Pick up Tiger's Reflex and Follow up Blow and youll be carving through monsters with absurd ease.

If this sounds like a fun idea to you, lemme know and I can help stat out the level progression :smallwink:

2010-06-16, 08:07 PM
Re: Avenger/Ardent - I love :) I'll have a go at putting one together tonight! :)

Alas, not sure when he'll see the light of day - our group catches up 1/week for about 3 hours and share DMing between 2 of us. We are currently 8th level in Scales of War and I'm back to DMing H3 which we plan to take through to P2 I think before going back to Scales and my current Avenger. Yikes! it'll be ages before we do Age of Worms 4E - sigh ....

Thanks for the build ideas none-the-less :)

EDIT: As for fluff - I initially couldn't picture an Ardent til someone mentioned Jedi :)

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-16, 10:21 PM
What are stances? are they similar to ToB stances from 3.5? as I said before I only own the character builder so I don't know about maany things concerning 4e

2010-06-16, 10:27 PM
What are stances? are they similar to ToB stances from 3.5? as I said before I only own the character builder so I don't know about maany things concerning 4e

They're most commonly daily (sometimes encounter) powers that you 'turn on' with a minor action and then last an entire encounter. Follow up Blow for instance read thats whenever you hit an opponent with an attack once per round you can strike again with your off hand weapon. Thats summarized but you can look it up in the CB. Generally I prefer stances to daily attack powers in that you gain more of a benefit out of something you only get to use once a day.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-16, 10:29 PM
Oh I see thanks