View Full Version : witchborn binder

2010-06-15, 08:02 PM
Have any of you ever played one? it's a PRC from the Magic of incarnum and I was wondering if it was any good.

2010-06-15, 08:22 PM
I've not played one before, but (beyond the fluff about working for the king) I think it'd be all right. I might have to look it over again.

I liked it enough to start making a full base class out of it once upon a time, but my innate procrastination left it 3/4 done...

2010-06-15, 08:23 PM
No, it is not good.

Not much else to be said. Don't think anyone has ever played it. First time I saw it the lost meldshaper levels instantly jumped to my eyes and the fluff just really didn't tick the right way.

Probably because I had just finished ToM before beggining and still had the Witch Hunter (anti-binder) fresh in memory.

2010-06-15, 08:23 PM
It's a total trap.

Most of its abilities are based on Meldshaper level, and it loses 4 Meldshaper levels. Totally not worth it.

2010-06-15, 08:50 PM
any good fixes for it out there?

2010-06-15, 09:02 PM
Unlikely. It's an unpopular prestige class as a whole, and it's rare for PrCs to get homebrew fixes.

The easiest thing to do would be to restore the lost meldshaper levels. I still wouldn't take it (no new chakra binds = why am I an Incarnum user, again?), but that would at least bump it up from "godawful" to "bad."

The other problem with the class is that, well, it's trying to be a mage killer, but we all know that you can't really do that. Dispelling Orb is cute, but requires a touch attack, which is unlikely to succeed against a caster who's playing mean. Mage Shackles are pretty much worthless, since if you can make a successful melee attack against a caster, you've already won. Word of Abrogation is poorly worded, and as written you have to burn a standard action (readying) AND an immediate action on it. Spiritflay is nifty, I guess, but not overwhelming. Grim Integument fails against any caster who has Dimension Door prepared (which will be all of the ones you're worried about, by the time you get this). The fact that there's no way to supercharge the amount of essentia you can invest in these abilities (they're not soulmelds, so none of the normal tricks work) means that the save DCs or checks are going to be kind of woefully low... and on top of it all, you're not advancing your chakra binds. This is on top of burning two really lame feats... the class is just bad, pure and simple. By the time you made it not terrible, it would no longer be recognizable. The only thing I can see using it for would be two levels for an at-will dispel (to use mostly on, say, magical traps rather than on enemies), but that's not worth the two feats and weird assortment of skills you'd have to burn.

2010-06-15, 09:08 PM
I think I'd prefer a Witchknife binder (MMIII/ToM) :smalltongue:

2010-06-15, 10:06 PM
I think I'd prefer a Witchknife binder (MMIII/ToM) :smalltongue:

That's what I thought the title was referring to for a minute :smallamused:

2010-06-15, 11:05 PM
I like that, as a class ability, the King gives you gold.

2 levels of the class would be okay, but anything else would be terribad.

Full Binding progression would at least make it a decent class, though it still wouldn't be particularly good at killing wizards.

(No Chakra binds, rough prerequisites and base classes with actual abilities mean that it still wouldn't be a something-for-nothing deal, but you can still get magic items to fill body slots and you'd at least have halfway respectable Meldshaper level for your dispels, etc.)

2010-06-16, 09:17 AM
Witchborn Binder: Magic of Incarnum pg 162

Cruddy pre-reqs: Track and Alertness, plus 6 meldshaper levels and a bunch of minor Skills.

You gain:

d6 hit die, 7/10 BAB, mediocre Skills.
6/10 meldshaper progression (which by itself is pretty poor) and it does NOT open new chakra binds. So if you take it at the intended time at ECL 7, you're missing out on - Arms, Brow, Shoulders, Waist, Throat, Heart, and Soul slots. You also only gain 2 point of essentia over 10 levels. Suffice to say, your meldshaping sucks.
Detect Magic at will.
The ability to invest (your limited) essentia into a class ability (limited by hit die, so max +4) to Saves vs Spells.
500 * Witchborn Binder level extra gp every level
Targeted Dispel Magic at will.
Mage Shackles: Dimensional Anchor on touch attack. Also entagles enemy and slightly hinders their casting ability.
Counterspell as a spell like ability. But you must ready an action.
Mediocre direct damage debuff effect that only effects casters.
Capstone that forces caster to Save or be immobilized.

If I was playing in an ECL 8 game, and I was absolutely sure that it was a one shot game and I would never see ECL 9 (when the arm/brow/shoulder slots open), and for some reason I needed Track, and I knew for a fact that we'd be fighting a lot of magic using enemies, the I would consider playing a Totemist 6/Witchborn Binder 2. Detect Magic at will is semi-useful for detecting magical traps, items, and enemies. And the targeted Dispel Magic is useful (though not as useful as just tearing your enemies apart with 8 natural weapons).

But that's a lot of ifs.

2010-06-16, 11:05 AM
the gold you get from the class feature is to little to be of much use.