High-flying, monster slaying swordsmen unite! [3.5 Discipline, WIP, advice wanted]

[The-Mage-King]

Hero's Edge: A Brief History

Once... Great monster roamed the lands, gleefully slaughtering the hordes of heroes who flocked to them in search of glory. And then the man named only 'Nimbus' noticed the one reason that most warriors lost- they were trained to fight human sized enemies, not larger foes.

Seeking to remedy this problem, he sat off to create a discipline that would help potential heroes kill their larger foes, preferably without being crushed in the process. He succeeded, creating the basis of the Hero's Edge discipline, and became a renown monster slayer.

Sadly, his tale ended in disaster- he was defeated by another martial adept, one who refined his ability to kill lone, human sized opponents to near absurd levels. He died a warriors death.

Fortunately, he had three apprentices, eager students who devoured all he taught them and were well on their way to developing the next step in the school. The three, known only by their unfortunate acronym 'G.A.S.', made a great many advances in the school.

Deciding to divide the work into equal portions, they sat off in separate directions, honing their skills and completing their new discipline as they did so.

Years passed, and the three met up once more, sharing their notes on designing their new school.

The first of the apprentices, who valued overwhelming might more than the others, created a set of techniques designed for sheer power- the ability to make ranged attacks with a swing of a blade was his favorite addition to the school.

The second, who valued utility and quick adaptation to new threats, provided an array of unique techniques that could be used for offense or defense- slamming a sword into the ground and prying to throw pieces of it at foes, or stabbing a sword into the ground and prying to form a shield against ranged attacks and similar techniques were his addition to the style.

And the third,who valued mobility and speed the most, supplied a slew of stances that enabled warriors to use their environment in creative ways- cutting cliffs off to use them as a makeshift weapon/battle field and similar feats were made by he.

Combining the three different approaches, they finished the discipline, creating a school unlike any other, focusing on slaying larger creatures and using the environment to kill their foes. Each taking an apprentice of their own, they split again, wandering the world for the rest of their lives.

Time passed, and the Temple of Nine Swords was created, with Reshar seeking out the greatest martial schools to join it. One of the array of practitioners in that time met him upon his travels, and offered to teach him the skills needed to slay much larger foes and much greater numbers of foes, provided that his art recieved a place in the school. Reshar politely declined, and went on his way, preferring to work with the environment as it was instead of adapting it to his needs mid-battle.

Following the Fall of the Temple, the masters of Hero's Edge sought out other martial adepts and attempted to aid them, lending them their skills when they were in need.

And, in recent days, a small group of Warblades have been attempting to adapt the style to fight constructs. These warriors call themselves 'The Meatbags', for some reason...


Practicioners: Warblades are the primary practicioners of this discipline, though other adepts learn some maneuvers from this on occasion. A Warblade can decide to be trained in this discipline at character creation, trading access to one of his other disciplines for access to this one. In addition, other adepts may take one of the Access Feats to gain access to this discipline.


Associated Weapons: the longsword, bastard sword (including katana), greatsword (including no-dachi), fullblade, and any sword made for a character of at least one size category larger than the practicioner.. Hero's Edge practitioners rely upon being able to easily cut objects with a long blade, and so mainly use swords.



Key skill: Jump- being a school originally created to combat giant enemies, practitioners need to be able to get high enough up to perform their attacks effectively.

Feats:

Hero's Blade
Prerequisites: Str 15, One Hero's Edge maneuver
Benefit: When wielding a weapon made for a creature one size category larger than yourself, you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls with that weapon.
Special: This feat can be taken by as a bonus feat by Warblades. This feat is treated as Monkey Grip for the purposes of PrC or feat requirements. This feat and Monkey Grip may not both be taken.

Access Feats
Path of the First
Prerequisites: One level in any Martial Adept class, Str 14
Benefit: You may now learn maneuvers from the Hero's Edge discipline as though it was on your class' discipline list. Whenever you use a Hero's Edge strike that deals slashing damage, you may reroll one die of that damage.
Normal: Initiators other than Warblades cannot learn Hero's Edge maneuvers except through the Martial Study feat, and they do not receive one reroll on damage rolls.
Special: You may not take this feat and Path of the Second or Path of the Third.

Path of the Second
Prerequistites: One level in any Martial Adept class, Str 14
Benefit: You may now learn maneuvers from the Hero's Edge discipline as though it was on your class' discipline list. Whenever you use a Hero's Edge strike that requires a Reflex saving throw, increase the DC by 1.
Normal: Initiators other than Warblades cannot learn Hero's Edge maneuvers except through the Martial Study feat, and they do not gain a bonus to their save DCs.
Special: You may not take this feat and Path of the First or Path of the Third.

Path of the Third
Prerequisites: One level in any Martial Adept class, Dex 14
Benefit: You may now learn maneuvers from the Hero's Edge discipline as though it was on your class' discipline list. Whenever you are in a Hero's Edge stance, you gain a +2 bonus on Jump checks, as well as a +1 bonus on attack rolls.
Normal: Initiators other than Warblades cannot learn Hero's Edge maneuvers except through the Martial Study feat.
Special: You may not take this feat and Path of the First or Path of the Second.

[The-Mage-King]

Hero's Edge Maneuvers by Level

1st: Wall Hop (Stance): Bounce off one wall to head further up another

Absurdly Sharp Blade (Boost): Your sword can cut things better. Yay!

2nd: Surface Wrecking (Strike): Throw rocks at your foe.

3rd: Building Surf (Stance): No falling damage as long as you're riding a piece of building down to ground level.
Cross Slash (Strike): Hit every square around you.

4th: Floor Shield (Counter): Create a barrier out of the floor to block attacks.
Blade Beam (Strike): A blade of energy arcs from your sword.
Building Devastation Strike (Strike): Deal extra damage to buildings and larger creatures.

5th: To Hell With Gravity! (Stance): Jump checks have no limits based on your height, and other benefits.

6th: Dragging Slash (Strike): Deal weapon damage for every 5 feet you move across an enemy/building.

7th: Cut Everything (Strike): Strike a cone's worth of foes with all your might!

8th:

9th:

[The-Mage-King]

Maneuver Discriptions

1st:

Wall Hop
Hero's Edge (Stance)
Level: Warblade 1
Well, you run at the wall, jump, and... bounce off it and onto the other wall? Then you bounce off that and head further up.

While in this stance, you may take part of your move action(s) to move along a vertical surface, provided that these two conditions are met- 1) You start the move action on a horizontal surface, and 2) you have a second vertical surface perpendicular to the surface you're moving up. In effect, you bounce between walls to climb up.

If you finish your turn on a vertical surface, and lack a way to remain there (such as by sticking a sword into the wall and holding on to it), you will fall.



Absurdly Sharp Blade
Hero's Edge (Boost)
Level: Warblade 1
Initiation Time: One Swift action
Range: Self
Targets: One weapon that deals piercing or slashing damage
Duration: 1 round/level

You run your hand over your weapon's edge in a by far too dramatic manner, causing it to audibly gleam with sharpness.

One of the most basic technique in the library of a user of the Hero's Edge discipline, this is also one of the most useful.

This renders the selected melee weapon capable of cutting through things that it would normally not be able to. Treat the weapon as a Silver or Magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and hardness.

As a practitioner grows in level, he learns how to make the weapon still better able to cut things. A single use of this maneuver can only grant the effect of one of the available options for the users Initiator Level.

{table] Initiator Level|Material
1-5|Silver/Magic
6-10|Cold Iron/Ghost Touch
10-15|Adamantine/Alignment (based on actual alignment)
16-20|Orichalcum*
25+|Epic [/table]
*(See New Special Materials, coming soon)


2nd


Surface Wrecking

Hero's Edge (Strike)
Level: Warblade 2
Initiation Time: One Standard Action
Range: Close (25 feet+5 feet/2 Initator Levels)
Targets: One enemy
Saving Throw: Reflex half

Wait, the writer made this have two abilities? Why did he...?Oh... Lack of good ideas sounds about right for him.

Alright, you slam your sword into the ground and pry, before hitting the rocks at your foe.

When you activate this maneuver, you swing your sword at the ground beneath you, kicking up chunks of stone (or whatever you're standing on) and batting the pieces at your foe, dealing 4d6 points of damage. Targets may make a Reflex save with a DC of 12+ the Initiator's Strength modifier to take half damage.



3rd


Building Surf
Hero's Edge (Stance)
Level: Warblade 3

Well, after cutting part of the building you're standing on off, you manage to ride it down to the ground safely. I friggin' hate this discipline. Why did I even let you take it?

While in this stance, you suffer no falling damage as long as you are riding some object, creatures that are dead included, of at least two size categories larger than you down. In addition, you can move between such objects with surprising speed- by making Jump checks, you can go between different pieces at one half of your base land speed.

Cross Slash
Hero's Edge (Strike)
Level: Warblade 3
Initiation Time: One Full Round action
Targets: All threatened squares

...You spammed a sword attack, cutting through the three zombies around you and inflicting triple damage to the Hydra in front of you. I hate this discipline.

As part of this maneuver, make a melee attack against each square you threaten at your full attack bonus, less 1 per square with a creature in it. This attack deals normal damage to the creature in that square if it hits.
In addition, you may strike the same creature multiple times, if it is in more than one of your threatened squares.




4th

Floor Shield
Hero's Edge (Counter)
Level: Warblade 4
Initiation Time: One Swift Action.

So... You pry up a piece of the floor and block an attack with it. Good.

You may initiate this maneuver when you are being attacked from a range. By stabbing the ground and prying, you lift up a wall of whatever surface you're standing on that blocks all ranged attacks directed at you from one specified direction.

In the case of AoE spells, this maneuver opens a space the size of the initiator in the area, right behind the barrier. This barrier blocks 'line' effects outright, provided that the width of the line is equal to or less than the space of the Initiator of this maneuver.

Ex: A wizard casts fireball at a party of adventurers. Their Warblade activates this maneuver, making a five foot hole in the fireball's circle, allowing him to escape the damage.

Building Devastation Slash
Hero's Edge (Strike)
Level: Warblade 4
Initiation Time: One Standard action
Ranged: Melee
Targets: One building or creature of at least Huge size.
Prerequisites: Absurdly Sharp Blade

Is this why you took Martial Study (Absurdly Sharp Blade)? So you could qualify for this one? Fine. You swing your oversized sword at your foe with such might that it knocks him over. Happy now?

When you use this maneuver, make a single attack against the target. If it hits, that attack deals an additional 7d6 Slashing damage that ignores hardness (if a buidling), and forces the target (if a creature) to make a Fort save (DC 14+ Str mod), or fall prone.

Blade Beam
Hero's Edge (Strike)
Level: Warblade 4
Initiation Time: Standard action
Range: Close
Targets: One creature and up to two creatures behind it. (See text)
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None/Reflex half

And you said that this discipline isn't a prime candidate for 'The Book of Weeaboo Fightan Magik'. Shame on you. Anyway, you swing your sword with such force that a blade of energy flies from the tip, cutting a path towards your foe.

When initiating this maneuver, select one foe within 30 feet, and make a ranged touch attack against it. If it hits, you deal your usual melee damage plus 6d6 Slashing damage to that creature, and two creatures behind it of your choice have to make a Reflex save (DC 14+ Str mod) or take 3d6 points of Slashing damage.




5th


To Hell With Gravity!Hero's Edge (Stance)
Level: Warblade 5
Prerequisites: Two Hero's Edge Maneuvers

So... You jump obscenely high when using this stance? Nice.

While in this stance, you no longer divide your Jump check by 4 to determine jump height, you are treated as three size categories larger for the purpose of your vertical reach, and you gain a +5 competence bonus on all Jump checks. In addition, you ignore the first 5d6 points of falling damage.


6th
Dragging Slash
Hero's Edge (Strike)
Level: 6
Initiation Time: One Full Round action
Range: Melee
Targets: One building or creature at least three size categories larger than you.
Prerequisites: Two Hero's Edge Maneuvers

You run up the back of the dragon, dragging your sword in its back as you do so, and jump off, the fire breathing lizard splitting into two pieces as you fall for your landing.

As part of this maneuver, make a Balance check against a DC of the targets AC. If it succeeds, make a move action to run up the (back of, if a creature)target. For every five feet that you travel on the creature, you deal your standard melee damage. You may then make a Jump check to leap off the target and land safely on the ground, a distance away equal to the result of your Jump check, unharmed.

The distance you may move depends upon the individual creature: You may move up to half of its height on this maneuver, rounding to the nearest 5 foot interval.


7th


Cut Everything
Hero's Edge (Strike)
Level: Warblade 7
Initiation Time: One Full Round action
Range: Melee
Targets: Creatures in a 30 foot cone area.
Prerequisites: Three Hero's Edge Maneuvers

...Dear lord. How many creatures do you hit with this?

When you initiate this maneuver, you effectively make an attack on each square in area of the cone. Make a single attack roll, and compare it to the AC of every creature in the area. If the roll is higher than the AC, it hits that creature, dealing normal damage plus an additional 2d6 points of Slashing damage. If a creature occupies multiple squares, it is hit more than once, recieving the extra damage per strike as normal.

EX: "Fog" initiates this maneuver, targeting an area that has three Medium creatures and one Huge creature in it. He makes an attack roll, getting a result above the AC of all creatures in the area. Each Medium creature takes his normal damage, plus 2d6 slashing damage. The huge creature, however, occupies nine squares. It recieves nine applications of his normal attack damage, plus 18d6 slashing damage.

[The-Mage-King]

And one more for good measure.


Alright, posting is allowed.

[DracoDei]

Having TWO discipline skills is unprecedented. I am all for spindling, folding, and mutilating the existing conventions and rules of thumb in a good cause, but I am not quite convinced that there is sufficient cause here.

[The-Mage-King]

Well... I could make it just Balance...

Maybe...

How would making it be 'Or' for balance? Being able to pick which of those two skills is the key at the start of your training in this discipline?

[Bibliomancer]

This is an interesting idea, but you should probably change the fluff to something more urban (to relate to the collapsing buildings theme), since the Setting Sun discipline covers killing larger foes rather efficiently.

[The-Mage-King]

This is an interesting idea, but you should probably change the fluff to something more urban (to relate to the collapsing buildings theme), since the Setting Sun discipline covers killing larger foes rather efficiently.

Well, it's still in progress, and as the current fluff says, there were three people who fleshed it out. They'll have more detail added later.

And one of the higher level maneuves is going to be called 'Blade Run', dealing damage as you run across a larger creature...

But maybe I should switch it to killing constructs or similar... It would work quite well, methinks...

[Bibliomancer]

But maybe I should switch it to killing constructs or similar... It would work quite well, methinks...

Yes, the idea of fighting while hopping from chunk to chunk of flying debris is quite interesting and could easily be fleshed out.

[DracoDei]

White Raven is hardly "specializing in single combat"...

[The-Mage-King]

White Raven is hardly "specializing in single combat"...

...Fixed the slight mistake in details...

And your thoughts on the crunch so far? Other than the skill thing?

[Dead_Jester]

Looks good, however, the third level stance should specify if creatures or dead creatures count as objects that can be surfed on, and I'd make the second level counter/strike into two distinct maneuvers because now people have no reason not to take it (the damage is competitive with other level 2 maneuvers and the counter might ever be overpowered for level 2 if it lets you block any incoming spells), and it is too versatile for a level 2 maneuver. Plus, I don't think any maneuvers have ever given two radically different options, and especially no different initiation time.

[The-Mage-King]

Looks good, however, the third level stance should specify if creatures or dead creatures count as objects that can be surfed on, and I'd make the second level counter/strike into two distinct maneuvers because now people have no reason not to take it (the damage is competitive with other level 2 maneuvers and the counter might ever be overpowered for level 2 if it lets you block any incoming spells), and it is too versatile for a level 2 maneuver. Plus, I don't think any maneuvers have ever given two radically different options, and especially no different initiation time.

Yeah... it was originally two maneuvers, but they seemed to be basically the same thing, so I combined them...


Though that'll make one less maneuver to write... I'll swap it around a bit.


EDIT: Also, feat added. Tell me what you think.

[The-Mage-King]

Alright, I just added a few more maneuvers, and a trio of feats that will let people access this discipline. Tell me what you think.

[Morph Bark]

"Surface Wrecking" needs its range better defined. "Close" has me presume 25 ft + 5/2 initiator levels, but this isn't specified as it is with spells that have "close" as a range.

Also, "G.A.S." eh? icwutudidthar. :smallwink:

[Dead_Jester]

New maneuvers look nice, but floor shield should be a counter instead of a boost if it is single use or permanently deforms the terrain.

Dragging Slash is unclear as to how you move up the target, and you should specify if this is capped by the creatures size and if the damage dealt is weapon damage or standard melee damage with all the modifiers. The jump check at the end is also unclear, and should specify if it lets ignore falling damage and/or move away from the enemy.

Also, the maneuver list states that dragging slash does damage every 10 feet traveled, but the maneuver says every 5 feet.

[The-Mage-King]

Hm...

First, yes, I did do that intentionally. Who else would I use to create a discipline focusing on cutting big things to pieces and using the environment in fancy ways?

Second, I'm working on that. Thanks for pointing those out.

Third, how about the three new spoilered feats in the first post? Are they balanced(ish)?

[demidracolich]

I think those feats are balanced when compared to blade meditation.

[The-Mage-King]

Alright, that's good to know...

Are there any suggestions for maneuvers? I'm kinda at the point where I can't think of anything good...

[Morph Bark]

Consider the mile-high leap ending in delicious dragon cleavage in the film. That could work for a maneuver here. Frankly, I think Jump might work better than Balance as a key skill (which you seemed to have in there before but changed before I saw it). It would be like... jumping from ally to ally, each of them giving you a boost to your Jump modifier and the final result being that you get a great bonus to your attack roll when you leap upon your target and make a Jump check for a bonus to damage, a la Iaijutsu Focus?

[The-Mage-King]

Hm... That could work.

I'll get on it.

[Morph Bark]

Hmmm, lemme think... another could be that you stab at each square directly adjacent to yours (except for ones with an ally in it), which would be more effective against Large or larger monsters, since they occupy more than one square.

To go with that, you could make a maneuver where you have to jump over your enemy and succesfully land on the other side. You gain a +4 bonus on attack rolls and +1d6 on damage for every 5 ft more than 5 ft you've jumped (+1d6 for 10 ft, +2d6 fot 15 ft, etc.). ...okay I was called away halfway in typing this up and upon my return I realize this is really close to the Tiger Claw maneuver Death From Above, though with changes, so this likely wouldn't be a high-level one. 4th or so. If you're even going to consider it now that I realise my stupidity.

[Bibliomancer]

To Hell With Gravity!Hero's Edge (Stance)
Level: Warblade 5
Prerequisites: Two Hero's Edge Maneuvers

So... You jump obscenely high when using this stance? Nice.

While in this stance, your jumping height is no longer limited by your height, and you gain a +5 competence bonus on all Jump checks. In addition, you ignore the first 2d6 points of falling damage.

According to the SRD, there is no limit on Jump checks due to height, unless you mean to say you don't divide your Jump checks by 4 to find how high you jumped. (Eg: Normal: Result 32 with a running start, Jump 8 feet up, Stance: Result 32 with a running start, jump 32 feet up.)

Your vertical reach is not a size-based limit on jump checks. It is a number you add to your feet of Jump to see how high you can reach. Thus, normally if you get an 8, you jump 2 feet off the ground. If you're medium, this means that you can grab something 10 feet off the ground. By removing this number you would a) allow a person to grab the moon by hopping) or b) reduce their reach to zero, meaning if I jump I can't reach a desktop that's at my waist with an 8 result.

Please clarify, since as written all this stance gives you is a +5 to jump checks (and possibly some odd side-effects if it affects vertical reach).

If so, this would be an odd stance, since you could jump 15 feet by taking 10 from a standing start. However, that's reasonable, since your party's Wizard learned fly 4 levels ago.

[The-Mage-King]

Hm... Edited it so that it says that you're treated as three size categories larger for your vertical reach, and clarified a bit.

[The-Mage-King]

Added another two maneuvers, and am working on the next few.

Thoughts?

[Bibliomancer]

Cut Everything has the potential to bog down the game if used on a formation of soldiers. Perhaps you should change it to roll once and compare to each AC in the target area? Even if you do this, +3d6 points of slashing damage might be overkill.

Additionally, I don't think that maneuver fits well with the resat of the discipline, since it would mainly be useful against numerous small foes. You could modify it to be 1 attack, compared against everything in the cone, and a creature takes an additional 1d6 points of slashing damage per square inside the target area. Thus, if becomes much more effective against larger foes, and fits well with the idea of a storm of steel lacerating the entirety of a large foe instead of a single cut.

[The-Mage-King]

Hm... I was thinking about the "one attack and compare it to everything's AC" when designing it, and thought it seemed a bit... off.

As for the other part of your suggestion... I think that works. I'll change it around.

EDIT: Used the first part anyway.

[IcarusWings]

Methinks that in-keeping with the use of a couple of Cloud Strife's limit breaks (Blade Beam, Cross-Slash, Dragging slash is essentially a horizontal Climhazzard). The level 9 manoeuvre MUST be Omnislash :smallbiggrin: (Braver could be used as well against flying enemies(jump up and hit them)).

You should probably use some of Cid's ones as well as he is modelled on the Dragon Knight from other games in the franchise and is in-keeping with the theme with the second adept.

[The-Mage-King]

Methinks that in-keeping with the use of a couple of Cloud Strife's limit breaks, level MUST be Omnislash :smallbiggrin: (Braver could be used as well against flying enemies(jump up and hit them)).

You should probably use some of Cid's ones as well as he is modelled on the Dragon Knight from other games in the franchise and is in-keeping with the theme with the second adept.

*Shifty look*


Look at 'Cut Everything'.

Then translate "everything" to "all".

Then look at the Latin word for all.

Then think about what you do to cut stuff with a sword.

Yeah.

[IcarusWings]

I know the name is essentially a crude omnislash, but we need the ability :smallbiggrin:

Essentially

Omnislash
Level: 9

You get 15 attacks which you may split between any number of enemies (at most one enemy per attack) within a 30ft radius. You may attack the same person more than once. You instantly teleport to a square of your choosing adjacent to the enemy you are attacking, if you are attacking the same enemy as last time you teleport to a different adjacent square. Each attack is made against an opponents flat-footed AC.

Obviously insanely OP but it's cool.

Maybe some form of Epic Manoeuvre for this discipline (if you are interested in making those)?

[The-Mage-King]

...That may be a good idea, Epic Maneuvers for this...

[Danzig]

...Does Hero's Edge have any 8th or 9th level maneuvers? Or am I missing something here?

And the "meatbag" reference about the construct-killers, as well as the blade beam bit, for some reason I'm thinking of HK-47 and KoTOR.

...Clever discipline, though. I want to see this when it's finished.

[Danzig]

White Raven is hardly "specializing in single combat"...

Yeah, if you want single combat, there's two really good ones: Army of One, obviously (well, one against many), and ErrantX's Jade Throne discipline (which is more about one-on-one). Also Diamond Mind is good.

But White Raven or Scarlet Bravura being about "single combat"?

Hah!