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Dracons
2010-06-15, 09:13 PM
I'm relying on the SRD for all psions as one of my players is a psion and he been borrowing my EPH.

that being said, I don't have much energy with school, work, my medical problems getting worst and other deals of life to go through all my books.

I'm wondering what is some good items for psions? He is a Nomad and level 11. They are coming up to some decent bosses as the campagin is getting close to the end. He doesn't have much equiptment, as I admit I'm terrible at giving out magic items and stingy to boot.

So, what are some good items to give him? Both Psionic kinds I'd perfer, but willing to use anything. Doesn't matter about price really, Just looking for ideas anyway. Just a item, and what book they're in and a short descript what they do. I also use forgotten realms mostly, but willing to do eberron.

Flob
2010-06-15, 09:34 PM
There's the obvious headband of intelect+X, the Torc of Power Preservation (old version, argue to let it be used), and try to convince your DM (youself) to let you convert the spells from a ring of wizardry to PP (my DM didn't like this idea, but, he also despises psionics with a burning pasion).

Dracons
2010-06-15, 09:37 PM
Oh I hate psions too. I find them way to over powerful myself. But he has fun with them, and I can ways to challenge him anyway so it works out.

The Dark Fiddler
2010-06-15, 09:54 PM
Oh I hate psions too. I find them way to over powerful myself. But he has fun with them, and I can ways to challenge him anyway so it works out.

The balance itself depends on the comparison point.

To Fighters? Yes.

To Wizards? Druids? No. Much more balanced than core magic.

Anyway, a lot of the equipment for Psions is the same as for Wizards. An Int boosting item, and a Cloak of Displacement can be good to prevent getting attacked.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-15, 10:06 PM
The balance itself depends on the comparison point.

To Fighters? Yes.

To Wizards? Druids? No. Much more balanced than core magic.

Anyway, a lot of the equipment for Psions is the same as for Wizards. An Int boosting item, and a Cloak of Displacement can be good to prevent getting attacked.

And armor is less troublesome, given you don't worry about spell failures.

Optimystik
2010-06-15, 11:02 PM
And armor is less troublesome, given you don't worry about spell failures.

Lack of proficiency is still a pain (the penalty affects Initiative.)

Hague
2010-06-15, 11:31 PM
There's always the level 1 dip into Fighter as a single bonus fighter feat can be useful. (Personally, I play with a modified version of toughness that simply grants 1 hit point per hit die and 1 per additional hit die added thereafter since the actual toughness feat is stupid)

Psychoactive skins are cool since you'll probably stay unarmored and they are easy to change. Interestingly enough, the Skin of Proteus technically allows for infinite healing...

Ashiel
2010-06-16, 12:04 AM
I'd stick with the simple stuff. +Int items, maybe some +Con items to help alleviate your pitiful hit points (though clever uses of psionic powers and the psionic body + feats can help alleviate this a little bit).

Cognizance crystals are popular. They're basically pearls of power for psionic characters. I don't like them as much since they're not as good as normal pearls of power (traditional casters get more out of them because their spells automatically scale; where psionic crystals grant the minimum PP of the associated level, of spell; and you can't mix it with your actual PP).

I prefer stocking up on power stones. Psions can assess power stones and other psionic creatures to manifest their contained powers using their own power points (see here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#manifestAnUnknownPowerFr omAnothersPowersKnown)). Carrying around a few cheap power-stones and burning your own PP can help you use powers that aren't very good for regular use, but you might want - such as identify and detect psionics; without nerfing yourself for taking them. It's kind of like casting from a scroll using one of your prepared slots rather than draining the scroll - if you need a core-casting analogy.

I would suggest spending less on enhancing your psionic powers (since you lack rings of wizardry, pearls of power, etc), and instead work on increasing your survivability. Wear more resistance items (maybe a ring of resistance, a minor cloak of displacement, and wearing some leather or padded armor with some elemental resistances), and try to keep a few power-stones and maybe dorjes around for emergencies (power stones to burn your own PP for utility effects, and dorjes so you can cast when you're running dry. Dorjes are like wands by the way).

As a player and GM who has had a lot of experience with psionics, don't be worried about him being overpowered. If you're running the game anywhere near the normal level of options (core material), the psion will only outshine the other characters if the other players are less experienced than a psion - in the same way a core character will outshine a psion if the tables are turned.

Psionics is smooth, and intuitive. If your player tends to like burning through their power points really fast (always using the largest augmentations, for example), then he'll find himself struggling soon. Also, here's some GMing tips to remember.


Psionic powers are vulnerable to defenses such as Globe of Invulnerability due to transparency. Additionally, augmented powers do not change their level, so if a Psion targets you with a 20 PP Ego Whip power and you're immune to 2nd level powers via an Ioun Stone or Globe, it does diddly.
Psions cannot spend more PP than they have manifester levels. This is a commonly overlooked rule, and leads to groups thinking low level psions can deal extreme amounts of damage and have super effects. Assuming you have no manifester level bonuses (like caster level), then he cannot spend more PP than he has levels in the class he's manifesting with.
Psionic effects can be dispelled just like magic.
Psions are more effective at dealing direct damage (something core casting isn't good at), but less effective at battlefield control and summoning (though astral construct has some nice balances since they're not summoned they can exist in an antimagic field or in a magic circle vs evil).
Psionic characters can wear armor, and dipping into a level of fighter, psychic warrior, or even cleric can help them a bit with such things. However, this generally doesn't make them much stronger. Psionic characters are pretty balanced because they can be built to survive while still contributing. However, notice that not wearing armor isn't a big deal either, since psionic characters don't require armor or shields for high AC at later levels (due to Interial Armor and Force Screen). But I'd advise leather armor, or maybe MW studded leather.

Dracons
2010-06-16, 12:30 AM
We're well aware of that whole no spending more points then level. We tend to look at everything before allowing it.

I'm not worried about his AC, seeing as he tends to have about 27 during most battles.

I've yet to see him run out of PP, though he has been close.

He's been nearly killed a few times too. At least four times now he been in the negatives.


Thanks for the tips though.

Endarire
2010-06-16, 01:31 AM
A Wizard and Psion have similar needs. Start from there.

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-16, 02:00 AM
Psions are more effective at dealing direct damage (something core casting isn't good at), but less effective at battlefield control and summoning (though astral construct has some nice balances since they're not summoned they can exist in an antimagic field or in a magic circle vs evil).That's a nice list but for this part. Most of it is correct, except astral constructs are suppressed in an antimagic field unless full Psionics Is Different is in play (and then they're still suppressed in a null psionics field).

If he wants armor, either go with a psychoactive skin of ectoplasmic armor (from Complete Psionic), or grab armor with 0 armor check penalty, since it won't matter that he's non-proficient, 'cuz there aren't any downsides anyway.

A monk's belt is useful if he has a nice good Wisdom, as it stacks with inertial armor, (though IA doesn't stack with normal armor or the previously mentioned psychoactive skin). If you go monk's belt, grab him a few ways to boost Wisdom.

If you want him to have access to more low-level utility items without being able to nova encounters specifically, give him access to some +1 manifester arrows (manifester weapons are in the SRD and the XPH). You get 50 +1 arrows that get 5 renewing pp every day. They're treated like self-filling cognizance crystals, meaning that he can manifest powers for 5 pp or below, but can't use more than one arrow at a time, and can't use them to augment his powers in conjunction with his pp reserve.

Depending on his build (especially if he wants to go into melee), give him a suppression weapon, for nice dispels.

Some MIC items will come in really handy, as well. Anklets of translocation, and if you let powers count as spells for items, arcanist gloves work wonderfully for psions. Bonuses to manifester level are nothing to sneeze at, even for 1st level powers.

Ashiel
2010-06-16, 05:04 AM
That's a nice list but for this part. Most of it is correct, except astral constructs are suppressed in an antimagic field unless full Psionics Is Different is in play (and then they're still suppressed in a null psionics field).

If he wants armor, either go with a psychoactive skin of ectoplasmic armor (from Complete Psionic), or grab armor with 0 armor check penalty, since it won't matter that he's non-proficient, 'cuz there aren't any downsides anyway.

A monk's belt is useful if he has a nice good Wisdom, as it stacks with inertial armor, (though IA doesn't stack with normal armor or the previously mentioned psychoactive skin). If you go monk's belt, grab him a few ways to boost Wisdom.

If you want him to have access to more low-level utility items without being able to nova encounters specifically, give him access to some +1 manifester arrows (manifester weapons are in the SRD and the XPH). You get 50 +1 arrows that get 5 renewing pp every day. They're treated like self-filling cognizance crystals, meaning that he can manifest powers for 5 pp or below, but can't use more than one arrow at a time, and can't use them to augment his powers in conjunction with his pp reserve.

Depending on his build (especially if he wants to go into melee), give him a suppression weapon, for nice dispels.

Some MIC items will come in really handy, as well. Anklets of translocation, and if you let powers count as spells for items, arcanist gloves work wonderfully for psions. Bonuses to manifester level are nothing to sneeze at, even for 1st level powers.

Antimagic Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicfield.htm).
Astral Construct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/astralConstruct.htm).

An Astral Construct cannot be created within the radius of an anti-magic field; however as a Creation (not summoning) power, the construct does not wink-out in the traditional fashion of summoned monsters; though it vanishes at the end of its usual duration; as far as I can tell.

Feel free to explain to me differently.

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-16, 10:35 AM
Antimagic Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicfield.htm).
Astral Construct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/astralConstruct.htm).

An Astral Construct cannot be created within the radius of an anti-magic field; however as a Creation (not summoning) power, the construct does not wink-out in the traditional fashion of summoned monsters; though it vanishes at the end of its usual duration; as far as I can tell.

Feel free to explain to me differently.It's not an instantaneous creation power, and so is suppressed within an antimagic field.

Check out the psionic equivalent, null psionics field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/nullPsionicsField.htm) for details. Due to transparency, antimagic field is identical.

Ashiel
2010-06-16, 10:25 PM
It's not an instantaneous creation power, and so is suppressed within an antimagic field.

Check out the psionic equivalent, null psionics field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/nullPsionicsField.htm) for details. Due to transparency, antimagic field is identical.

Thanks Lycanthromancer. I stand happily corrected. :smallbiggrin:

Zaq
2010-06-16, 10:28 PM
Psions are casters, so anything that boosts initiative is welcome. A +1 Eager Warning Dagger (or one of each... not like you're using your hands for anything else), Sandals of the Vagabond, those bracers in MIC... all good stuff.

Draz74
2010-06-16, 10:34 PM
Psions are casters, so anything that boosts initiative is welcome. A +1 Eager Warning Dagger (or one of each... not like you're using your hands for anything else), Sandals of the Vagabond, those bracers in MIC... all good stuff.

Might as well make the Warning Dagger a Shuriken instead, to cut its cost down to 2%. :smallamused:

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-17, 03:10 PM
Might as well make the Warning Dagger a Shuriken instead, to cut its cost down to 2%. :smallamused:A shuriken can be made as a warning weapon, but alas, not eager. :smallfrown:

It's pretty darned cheap though.

Khellendross
2010-07-24, 10:15 AM
A shuriken can be made as a warning weapon, but alas, not eager. :smallfrown:

It's pretty darned cheap though.

A Shuriken is tech a throwing dagger and not really a throwing star but they can be made to be that way so maybe your Dm will allow you to use it as it's other use. A throwing dagger.

true_shinken
2010-07-24, 10:28 AM
A Shuriken is tech a throwing dagger and not really a throwing star but they can be made to be that way so maybe your Dm will allow you to use it as it's other use. A throwing dagger.

Player: "Hey, dude, I wonder, could you bend the rules so that I can gain an obscene bonus to initiative for a bargain price, based on a misconception on how a specific type of overevaluated Japanese weaponry works?"
DM: "Sure, why not?'

Greenish
2010-07-24, 10:46 AM
Oh I hate psions too. I find them way to over powerful myself. But he has fun with them, and I can ways to challenge him anyway so it works out."Too overpowerful" is a tautology. Also wrong.
(Personally, I play with a modified version of toughness that simply grants 1 hit point per hit die and 1 per additional hit die added thereafter since the actual toughness feat is stupid)That's how Improved Toughness from Comp. Warrior works.

A Shuriken is tech a throwing dagger and not really a throwing star but they can be made to be that way so maybe your Dm will allow you to use it as it's other use. A throwing dagger.A javelin is a throwing spear. Still, you can't add melee weapon enhancements on it.

Dracons
2010-07-24, 05:00 PM
"Too overpowerful" is a tautology. Also wrong.

That's a good amount of personal opinion on that matter. It's my opinion that psions are over powered. Does that mean I ban them from play? No. Do I strongly hate them? Yes. Do they always overcome every encounter? Yes. Do they overpower the other players? By tons. And yes, I follow that rule of no more power points in one power then your level. (Belive me, I know that rule as it's the first thing people scream when I voice my opinion that they are overpowered).

You have your opinion that they are very weak or equal to everyone, I am the opinion that they are vastly over powered, and part of the reason I'm considering making all casters a point by system, which royally pissed off the psion player. (I only do it because it's unique! If every does spell points, there is no reason to do it!).

Then again, this player absoulty hates it if anyone even comes within an inch of his power scales usually.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-24, 05:03 PM
That's a good amount of personal opinion on that matter. It's my opinion that psions are over powered. Does that mean I ban them from play? No. Do I strongly hate them? Yes. Do they always overcome every encounter? Yes. Do they overpower the other players? By tons. And yes, I follow that rule of no more power points in one power then your level. (Belive me, I know that rule as it's the first thing people scream when I voice my opinion that they are overpowered).

You have your opinion that they are very weak or equal to everyone, I am the opinion that they are vastly over powered, and part of the reason I'm considering making all casters a point by system, which royally pissed off the psion player. (I only do it because it's unique! If every does spell points, there is no reason to do it!).

Then again, this player absoulty hates it if anyone even comes within an inch of his power scales usually.

By that logic, you must loathe wizards.

Dracons
2010-07-24, 05:15 PM
I love wizards. But no player who played a wizard, even the ones that play psions, have ever decimate encounters, and buttrape anything that they come across. They're useful and strong, IF they know what to do. If they prepare the day wrong, well they are screwed. They go into a battle, and go well, there goes my three spells. The rest are all divination, or party boosts, or something that has can't help us at all. Wish we knew where we were going today guys. Well, I can hit them with my stick! Oh, summon an badger that can't do anything!


Where as the psion goes, Oh, so your this element? Ok! Counter element! Oh, you do this? Well, I can do this now! Hm, I got alittle hurt. Time to heal. Ok, time to go back! I know! I'll do a giant fart and everyone dies. YAY! Worship my power!

Much like a sorcerer in the regards of spont cast whatever they need. Unlike sorcerer's though, a psion has access to any elemental power he knows, all rolled into one.

People opinions are equally valid. I don't like psions. They have little to no weakeness, since I've seen even level 4 psions have armor class in the high twenties. (And low twenties for touch armor). Their power points reserve is pretty high and rarely run out before the day is done. I don't like the flavor. I don't like how they work. I don't like what they can do.

But unlike most other DM's that hate psions, I at least ALLOW my players to play them since they enjoy it. I don't know if it's the flavor, or the fact that they walk over everything and quickly become more powerful then the wizards and cleric players by far.

The Glyphstone
2010-07-24, 05:16 PM
Seeing psionics as too powerful is fine - they are, no one disagrees with this. The problem is considering psionics as too powerful, but wizards/clerics/druid (who can do all a psion can and more, more easily and more effectively*). This upsets people, because it's mathematically and practically incorrect, but too many DMs see the Core books as sacred, and psionics as overpowered merely because it's a splatbook and different.

Incidentally...WoTC did your work for you (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm)on the whole 'all casters use points' thing.


*Caveat: If said players understand how to do it. Psions are more screw-up friendly than a wizard on a day-to-day basis, so if your players don't understand all the myraid minutae of making a wizard/sorcerer ungodly levels of OP untouchableness, then they'll be much weaker than they could be.

Dracons
2010-07-24, 05:21 PM
Indeed. I know about that work from unearth arcana. I'm considering doing it. But unsure of it so far.


As for core being scared and splatbooks being horrid? I allow books, but with override minor things in game. People ask, I look over it, I say yes or no. Such as Tome of Battle, or Incarana. Or Tome of Magic.

I never had a problem with anyone using any class, but psion users always quickly become the most powerful by far in any game they're allowed in.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-24, 05:26 PM
Wizards outperform psions of any type. If you want to complain that psions are too powerful, at least be coherent and complain that full casters are too powerful. At least this way you'll be including wizards, druids and clerics. They all outperform psionics.

The Glyphstone
2010-07-24, 05:28 PM
Indeed. I know about that work from unearth arcana. I'm considering doing it. But unsure of it so far.


As for core being scared and splatbooks being horrid? I allow books, but with override minor things in game. People ask, I look over it, I say yes or no. Such as Tome of Battle, or Incarana. Or Tome of Magic.

I never had a problem with anyone using any class, but psion users always quickly become the most powerful by far in any game they're allowed in.

As mentioned, that's a problem of them being full casters, not specifically psions. If you had a psion and a wizard player of equal skill, the wizard would come out on top...assuming your campaign didn't just cave in, collapse, and run to hide weeping in a corner from being torn mercilessly apart, which either of the characters would be capable of doing on their own. Wizards just get to change the way they break your game from day to day, psions get to break your game more often each day in the same way.

Dracons
2010-07-24, 05:30 PM
Wizards outperform psions of any type. If you want to complain that psions are too powerful, at least be coherent and complain that full casters are too powerful. At least this way you'll be including wizards, druids and clerics. They all outperform psionics.

On paper maybe.

In my experence? Never. Never once had a player of mine playing a wizard, cleric, sorcerer, druid, has ever ever outperformed a psion. The wizard by having to few spells, and needing to know what to prepare for the day. If they prepare wrong, well they're screwed. Sorcerers might be equal, but the psion will find ways to counter his higher level spells before he can effectly use them against the psion, at which point the psion still has at least half if not more of his power point reserve, and can crush the sorcerer into gravel.

In my years of playing dnd, I never had a wizard, or any full caster, even the so called /power gamers/ of the group, be as destructive, all powerful, easily the best character then when psions play.

Prodan
2010-07-24, 05:32 PM
In my years of playing dnd, I never had a wizard, or any full caster, even the so called /power gamers/ of the group, be as destructive, all powerful, easily the best character then when psions play.

Feel free to step into my lair.

The Glyphstone
2010-07-24, 05:39 PM
On paper maybe.



You've hit on the real issue right here. On paper, a wizard can demolish a psion (or a sorcerer, they're both Tier 2 classes) nine ways to sunday. But if the player hasn't read said paper, they won't know the tricks to performing like that, and their effectiveness drops dramatically.

Top-level wizards don't prepare situational magic, but focus on spells that are useful and effective no matter what they're doing. Situational spells are for scrolls, which wizards get discounts on. If they have read "the paper", and don't care about how much fun the DM or other players have, they can go nuts and demolish campaigns.

Sorcerers - not sure what you mean here. Psionics are miserable counterspellers, because Dispel Psionics sucks across transparency. A sorcerer who picks his spell slots right (Globe of Invulnerability and Wings of Cover, 4th and 2nd) is basically immune to 99% of a psion's attacks, and can pretty much thumb his nose at him for hours until the psion finally runs dry and the sorcerer is at full power.

A cleric will lose to a blaster psion in an outright duel, but a smart party will beg for a well-played cleric before they take a psion - party buffs, healing, and the ability to hulk out and melee better than the party fighter is a great package deal.

Druids turn into bears, have a pet bear, summon more bears, and shoot lightning from their eyes as a bear. They're basically walking parties all by themselves, 'nuff said.:smallbiggrin:

The other problem with psions is that they're not team players, a big issue in D&D. They have almost no buffs that aren't "self-only", making them interface very poorly in a group setting, and frequently stealing the spotlight as you describe. They can't help their teammates, their only choice is to blast/attack and overshadow their party instead. If you consider the duty of a caster/psion to throw lots of damage dice, then psions are the best of the lot at doing so (minus metamagic cheese). They just suck at anything else, like party support, buffs, utility, etc.

Prodan
2010-07-24, 06:02 PM
I would be interested in knowing exactly what it is that the problem psions do to "wreck the game", because if it's just very efficient blasting...

Let's just say the words "Wings of Flurry" will be in my next post."

The Glyphstone
2010-07-24, 06:05 PM
Alternatively, there's another solution for this. We, the residents of GITP, know quite a bit about the game - what's broken, and how to counter it...so if you think your psion is dominating the game and want to cut him down to size, tell us exactly how and why he's so OP, and we can probably give you a whole long list of solutions.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-24, 06:08 PM
Alternatively, there's another solution for this. We, the residents of GITP, know quite a bit about the game - what's broken, and how to counter it...so if you think your psion is dominating the game and want to cut him down to size, tell us exactly how and why he's so OP, and we can probably give you a whole long list of solutions.

We'll also gladly spring sample wizards to wreck any psion that becomes too smug.

Prodan
2010-07-24, 06:09 PM
Hold on... he's not spending more power points than his maniferster level, is he?

The Glyphstone
2010-07-24, 06:11 PM
Hold on... he's not spending more power points than his maniferster level, is he?

Okay, now that's just mean.:smallyuk:

(It's been covered at least twice in the thread so far).

Eronai_Jantig
2010-07-24, 06:12 PM
Hold on... he's not spending more power points than his maniferster level, is he?

Edit: Ninja'd

Play nice :P

(In case you didn't notice, like at least 2 people have said that in this thread already, and he has stated he knows about this rule.)

However I do like this idea of helping him overcome his powerful player problem, perhaps not try to kill him, simply negate him, such as the Globe of Invulnerability.

Nero24200
2010-07-24, 06:30 PM
On paper maybe.

In my experence? Never. Never once had a player of mine playing a wizard, cleric, sorcerer, druid, has ever ever outperformed a psion. The wizard by having to few spells, and needing to know what to prepare for the day. If they prepare wrong, well they're screwed. Sorcerers might be equal, but the psion will find ways to counter his higher level spells before he can effectly use them against the psion, at which point the psion still has at least half if not more of his power point reserve, and can crush the sorcerer into gravel.

In my years of playing dnd, I never had a wizard, or any full caster, even the so called /power gamers/ of the group, be as destructive, all powerful, easily the best character then when psions play.

Sorry, but alot of this doesn't sound right to me. Wizards, for starters, do not have "few spells". A psion will have 36 spells at 20th level before taking into account feats spent to gain more powers. A wizard learns, at bare minimum, 41 spells by that point. As said, that's bare minimum - Wziards do not need to sacrifice feats to gain spells, they can sacrifice gold though, and get alot more in return.

What's more, alot of wizard/sorc spells are actually better than their psionic counterparts. Have a look at the Telekinesess line for instance...ironicly, something that should be better in the hands of a Psion isn't - A psion needs to spend 3 powers known to do what a wizard does with one spell.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I've met alot of people saying that psions are game-breaking, but generally it's because they're not looking at the bigger picture. I'm not nessicerily saying that's not true in your case, but 9 times out of 10 it's what I see. And the main reason I think people do this is because they hear psionics are broken and make up their mind before really giving them a chance.

Fouredged Sword
2010-07-24, 09:54 PM
High level casting (starting at about level 8) starts to become more and more powerful and can overcome more and more of the weaknesses inherent to the class. This goes for Psion and Wizard alike. Wizard has more splatbook coverage, and thus a lot of options. They aren't named psions of the coast after all.

A well built wizard or a well built psion will outshine any other non caster character in the game. This is Dnd, casting is king. The wizard will just be a little nicer about it and use his magic to basicly rig every fight so the fighter can hit people with his sword to actualy finish them off. It is just as hard on the DM to chalenge, if not more so, but plays better with other classes.

That was what seems to be also bothering you besides the power level. A wizard can be overpowered compared to other characters, but spend his power to close the gap by buffing. A psion can't and is forced to solve every problem that threatens him by himself, becuse anything that the fighter can even get close to beating can't even get close to the psion.

A DM can simply throw bigger and bader monsters at a wizard confidant that he will augment his team enough to handle the threat together if he needs to. A Psion will just be forced to take more and more of the spotlight and force the other chatacters to wait while he kills the balor. This is why I think so many people dislike psionics and feel they are overpowered compared to wizards, even though mathmaticaly a wizard can do more. It is becuse the Psion does things by takeing the lead, and a wizard does not have to.