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View Full Version : Fun with dungeonbred template



Runestar
2010-06-16, 08:05 AM
Dungeonscape released the dungeonbred template, which basically de-advances a creature by 1 size category. It is not as bad as it sounds; the creature gets free INA on all its attacks, effectively retains its con score, -4str, free endurance (which paves the way for feats such as steadfast determination and diehard) amongst other minor benefits.

I understand the intention is to make larger monsters more viable and maneuverable in enclosed dungeon environments, but I couldn't help but notice that many monsters tend to be disadvantaged. Smaller size and lower strength means smaller reach and lower success rates on their special attacks such as grapple or trip (though I suppose less grappling means less headaches for everyone). :smallwink:

Just for fun, I applied it to a tarrasque, only to discover that its AC actually decreased slightly, though it got a small bonus on its attack rolls, which when funneled to damage via power attack, more than offsets the reduced strength. But mostly just for the kicks of a 4x4 tarrasque. Just bear in mind that it can be forcecaged now. :smallbiggrin:

This then got me thinking - what sort of creatures do you think benefit most from it. Beholder comes to mind, it gets improved flight capabilities and better ranged attack rolls. A manticore can make a viable ranged attacker, netting +2 to-hit. Advancing a creature to the next size category, then reducing it via dungeonbred would help mask its true prowess, leading the party to think it is weaker than it actually is.

I understand that as a +0cr template, the final product shouldn't be any stronger than the original creature, but hey, we are talking about optimization here...:smalltongue:

Suggestions? Opinions? Experiences? :smallsmile:

Morph Bark
2010-06-16, 08:56 AM
Your application of Dungeonbred on the Tarrasque makes me wonder if it could somehow be applied several times to make Fine Tarrasques...

Eloi
2010-06-16, 08:58 AM
^ Hi, I'm your clone!
Perhaps we should mention this in the Tarrasque optimization thread?

RelentlessImp
2010-06-16, 09:06 AM
Don't forget that it also released the Acidborn template.

They'll let any old hack write a sourcebook these days... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html)

Joking aside, apply Dungeonbred to something a little more sinister than the Tarrasque. Big T's little more than a joke. Advance a Dire Mammoth and shrink it down, however, and have it ride down the hallways trampling people. I think that'll give better results.

Morph Bark
2010-06-16, 09:20 AM
^ Hi, I'm your clone!
Perhaps we should mention this in the Tarrasque optimization thread?

Heh, and what a good clone you are.

That sounds certainly like a good idea.

Volthawk
2010-06-16, 09:45 AM
Your application of Dungeonbred on the Tarrasque makes me wonder if it could somehow be applied several times to make Fine Tarrasques...

Won't work, Dungeonbred can only be applied to Large or larger creatures.

Actually, it can't be applied more than once, period.

subject42
2010-06-16, 09:56 AM
It could be fun applied to the Mooncalf in the accessory update booklet.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a

Person_Man
2010-06-16, 10:46 AM
It's a shame it doesn't have a level adjustment. I can think of many uses for this with Underfoot Combat and Confound the Bigfolk.

Volthawk
2010-06-16, 11:20 AM
It's a shame it doesn't have a level adjustment. I can think of many uses for this with Underfoot Combat and Confound the Bigfolk.

Except the smallest creature you can apply it to is Large, so you can't reach Small size with it.

Darrin
2010-06-16, 02:51 PM
Won't work, Dungeonbred can only be applied to Large or larger creatures.


Just use the half-troll template instead to change type to giant, and then use that Eberron "return to nature" spell to instantly drop however size categories you need.

jiriku
2010-06-16, 02:59 PM
Basically, any creature that's big but doesn't rely on its size would benefit from the increased maneuverability. The couatl comes to mind, as does the dread wraith. (Can the template be applied to undead?)

hamishspence
2010-06-16, 03:01 PM
I think you'd have to apply an undead template to the dungeonbred creature, rather than applying the dungeonbred template to an undead.

So you could have a corpse (BoVD) dungeonbred chimera, say.

subject42
2010-06-16, 03:17 PM
Except the smallest creature you can apply it to is Large, so you can't reach Small size with it.

You could theoretically apply it to something with Powerful build, though, since they count as one size category larger when it is beneficial.

The wording on Jotunbrud is even weirder, so a permanently reduced Jotunbrud Dungeonbred human could make for some fun rules-lawyering.

Prime32
2010-06-16, 04:12 PM
Dungeonbred also increases the range of creatures you can use for templates like symbiotic which are restricted by size.

jiriku
2010-06-16, 04:56 PM
To really cheese it up, you could apply dungeonbred, then titanic! Titanic sets a creature's size to gargantuan, so if it's applied after, you get all of the benefits of dungeonbred with none of the drawbacks.

Ravens_cry
2010-06-16, 08:09 PM
To really cheese it up, you could apply dungeonbred, then titanic! Titanic sets a creature's size to gargantuan, so if it's applied after, you get all of the benefits of dungeonbred with none of the drawbacks.

Even though that's not the most optimized thing I have ever seen, that is my definition of cheese right there at its stinkiest.:smallyuk:

Thurbane
2010-06-16, 09:45 PM
Mmm, Spellwarped Dungeonbred 1/2 Ogre. Lots of nasty LA, but not too much CR...might make a nice surprise to a party as a villain.

Medium Aberration

STR +6
DEX +2
CON +6
INT +2
WIS +0
CHA -2

SR 11+HS
Spell Absorbtion
Easy Maintenance
Hardy
Bonus feat: Endurance

Set
2010-06-16, 09:52 PM
A dungeonbred Griffon might make a cool mount for that Halfling Paladin.