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View Full Version : Powerful Conjuration Spell (Really need help)



Aeromyre
2010-06-16, 08:48 AM
A year ago in my characters first adventure, I made a villain with a powerful conjuration spell called "Basudra's Evil Twin" (This was AD&D)
We now Play Pathfinder and I want to bring Basudra back as the BBEG. I lost this spell and the players thought it was so great and wanted to have it.
Tell me what level you think it would be.

Basudra's Evil Twin
Will Save: Resists Temptation to attack twin
When cast upon a target an exact copy with all abilities, apears and the character will be mesmerized by his Evil Twin and will make a will save to resist not attacking it. Any Items with Good alignment will have an evil descriptor and if possible the evil version of the effect. If anyone wishes to attack the Evil twin or the Character there is a 50% Chance they will attack the wrong one. Who ever survives becomes that person whether it is the twin or not. If it is the twin who survives his new alignment is evil.

Also now that i don't have just one kind of spell caster type (Magic User) WHat is a good Spell Caster build for someone of around level 12?
Thanks guys

Cyrion
2010-06-16, 09:06 AM
You're describing something that's very similar to simulacrum, but the creature you conjure is more powerful- it's got more hit points and it's potentially permanent and real (simulacrum is an illusion (shadow) spell). Another analogy is that you've created an evil clone. Simulacrum is 7th level and clone is 8th, so I'd put your spell as 8th.

Aeromyre
2010-06-16, 09:08 AM
You're describing something that's very similar to simulacrum, but the creature you conjure is more powerful- it's got more hit points and it's potentially permanent and real (simulacrum is an illusion (shadow) spell). Another analogy is that you've created an evil clone. Simulacrum is 7th level and clone is 8th, so I'd put your spell as 8th.

Awesome that's great, I'll look up those spells.
Thanks a bunch

Radar
2010-06-16, 09:18 AM
There is a 9th level spell called Ice Assassin (in Frostburn I guess), which creates exact copy (abilities, spells, probably not items) of a person out of ice, if you have a piece of the person. This copy is compelled to kill the original, but can be controlled by the caster of the Ice Assassin spell.
Your spell is at least as powerful IMO.

Aeromyre
2010-06-16, 09:29 AM
There is a 9th level spell called Ice Assassin (in Frostburn I guess), which creates exact copy (abilities, spells, probably not items) of a person out of ice, if you have a piece of the person. This copy is compelled to kill the original, but can be controlled by the caster of the Ice Assassin spell.
Your spell is at least as powerful IMO.

Yeah i read Clone and Simulacrum and both don't quite prduce the effect I'm after so I'm thinkin it will be 9th level
WHich means i may have to lengthen the adventure so the party can handle a BBEG who can cast 9th level spells

Heliomance
2010-06-16, 09:33 AM
TBH, what with the whole "if the clone is the survivor, it becomes the real person" bit, I'd say you're looking at Epic magic.

Incidentally, why the bit about if you attack one, you've got a 50% chance to attack the wrong one? Yes, they look identical. But unless they're both out of sight for a bit, it's a fairly simple matter to simply keep track of which one's your friend.

Also, y'know, Detect Evil should tell you quite nicely.

Hallavast
2010-06-16, 09:40 AM
Yeah i read Clone and Simulacrum and both don't quite prduce the effect I'm after so I'm thinkin it will be 9th level
WHich means i may have to lengthen the adventure so the party can handle a BBEG who can cast 9th level spells

Maybe he doesn't need to be personally powerful enough to cast the spell himself. He might be using a scroll or artifact to cast it. :smallwink:

Aeromyre
2010-06-16, 09:42 AM
TBH, what with the whole "if the clone is the survivor, it becomes the real person" bit, I'd say you're looking at Epic magic.

Incidentally, why the bit about if you attack one, you've got a 50% chance to attack the wrong one? Yes, they look identical. But unless they're both out of sight for a bit, it's a fairly simple matter to simply keep track of which one's your friend.

Also, y'know, Detect Evil should tell you quite nicely.

Well the player would simply play the evil clone and the rest of the party members would think nothings changed since they killed the twin

My players are levels 4-6 i think 9th level magic stretches it

Aeromyre
2010-06-16, 09:44 AM
Maybe he doesn't need to be personally powerful enough to cast the spell himself. He might be using a scroll or artifact to cast it. :smallwink:

Yeah thats not unreasonable, but i don't wamt the players to have a chance of getting a hold of it, they already got one super awesome artifact

Lapak
2010-06-16, 09:46 AM
If you want a villain to have this as a one-off ability, let them have a Mirror Of Opposition. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mirrorofOpposition)

If you include it as a spell, and put it within the reach of the players, you've pretty much broken your own game.

EDIT: Fringe benefit is that mirrors are pretty easy to smash, so even if the players get it they won't have it for long if they carry it around on adventures.

Aeromyre
2010-06-16, 09:46 AM
TBH, what with the whole "if the clone is the survivor, it becomes the real person" bit, I'd say you're looking at Epic magic.

Incidentally, why the bit about if you attack one, you've got a 50% chance to attack the wrong one? Yes, they look identical. But unless they're both out of sight for a bit, it's a fairly simple matter to simply keep track of which one's your friend.

Also, y'know, Detect Evil should tell you quite nicely.

That's true i never said there was any "Evil Scrying" Detect evil could certainly determine which for the character casting it

Aeromyre
2010-06-16, 09:51 AM
If you want a villain to have this as a one-off ability, let them have a Mirror Of Opposition. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mirrorofOpposition)

If you include it as a spell, and put it within the reach of the players, you've pretty much broken your own game.

EDIT: Fringe benefit is that mirrors are pretty easy to smash, so even if the players get it they won't have it for long if they carry it around on adventures.

I think I may make a magic item with an evil descriptor and some bad effects for non evils, or non lawfuls,

Heliomance
2010-06-16, 06:46 PM
If you want a villain to have this as a one-off ability, let them have a Mirror Of Opposition. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mirrorofOpposition)


No. Don't do this. NEVER EVER let your players get their hands on a Mirror of Opposition. EVER.

Aeromyre
2010-06-16, 06:51 PM
No. Don't do this. NEVER EVER let your players get their hands on a Mirror of Opposition. EVER.

Don't worry, I'm not giving them any items
If Basudra has a magic item that allows him to be uber awesome it will burn off his finger (if it were a ring) when he dies

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-06-16, 06:54 PM
Um, maybe I'm missing something, but couldn't a party member cast Detect Evil to figure out which one to kill?

Aeromyre
2010-06-16, 07:17 PM
Um, maybe I'm missing something, but couldn't a party member cast Detect Evil to figure out which one to kill?

Yes this was mentioned and I also said there would be nothing wrong with that
But only the character casting that spell, would know and the chances of him preparing it are slim
It also doesn't make or break the BBEG chances are they will attack the conjuror instead of the conjuration