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View Full Version : Making a Module: How much character information should i reveal?



DoodlesD
2010-06-16, 04:01 PM
I'm making a multi-dungeon segmented module for Dnd using Pathfinder rules and i've worked up a total of 11 characters for my players to choose from to form a party of 5. My question is how much information should i reveal about the characters before the players select them for use in the campaign? Alignment won't be much of a problem because most are compatible in any combination. My main concern is personality profiles, gear, statistics and the like. whether you play pathfinder or not, any input would be great =D

TheThan
2010-06-16, 04:07 PM
If they are going to be the player’s characters, then reveal everything. after all, they are their characters.

DoodlesD
2010-06-16, 04:13 PM
No, these characters are one's that i have built for this specific campaign. The players have never seen or played with these characters before. They are brand new and specific to this campaign. the purpose of the module is to provide both characters and a setting in which the players can test and demonstrate their playing abilities as well as their ability to role play as characters who may be different then themselves. Also, it creates a standardized campaign setting that can be reused with other players.

TheThan
2010-06-16, 04:40 PM
Exactly, if your creating pregenerated characters for the players to use, then you need to give them an idea of what those characters are like. This goes above and beyond stats, the players should have an idea of what these character’s personalities are like, so they can try to role-play them that way. If you just give them a blank slate, then they’re just going to RP the way they always have.

DoodlesD
2010-06-16, 04:48 PM
I'm still not exactly sure what you are saying. Of course i will give them all of the information once they have selected a character for play. My question is how much i should reveal before they have selected these characters. Should they select their characters based on race and class alone, or also on alignment? Should their selections be based on personality alone? Should i reveal to them what skills the characters are trained in and what weapons and armor are equipped with? I'm mostly concerned about these factors impacting the player's decisions. I want them to construct a party that will generate a fun play setting and interesting story rather than selecting characters that players feel safe with .

Everything will be revealed once players select their characters. This is a must. My concern is what should they know BEFORE they select a character.

onthetown
2010-06-16, 04:50 PM
They should know everything before they make a selection. It sounds like your party is new or trying to get used to a certain ruleset if you're making this as a means for them to test their playing. Since the focus will be on playing and the actual campaign, they won't want any surprises when they get the characters.

Rannil
2010-06-16, 05:00 PM
In my opinion people do need to know what they choose and what their possible new character is capable off. But you don't have to state facts like "lawfull good" or "5 ranks in jump" try to fluff it a bit. Saying things like "defender of the people" "upholds the law" and "he is known for jumping large distances." Choices can even be justified by backgrounds, like why does this example paladin have jumping.

But then a little bit less obvious. To give the players both a idea of what the character is and they already start with a role play mind set. You can't really pick a character to "be" if you don't know the character at all. People will then just insert their own ideas and may be mislead.

mobdrazhar
2010-06-16, 05:11 PM
As everyone else has been saying you will want to give them all information on the characters BEFORE they make a selection so they can choose a character that they are comfortable with. If you just give them a class and race before they choose and then aferwards giving them personality details because they may bot be able to roleplay that sort of character.

DoodlesD
2010-06-16, 05:14 PM
Thank you Rannil =) that sounds like a good idea. I Could provide a background sheet for each character that might hint at what their abilities are. i do provide a "Personality Profile" of sorts. Here is an example.

Personality Profile-
Sanity: Normal
General Tendencies: Sober, Cautious, Opinionated, Warlike,
Personality: Bold
Disposition: Proud
Intellect: Average
Nature: Forgiving
Materialism: Average
Honesty: Very Honorable
Bravery: Brave
Energy: Normal
Thrift: Average
Morals: Normal
Piety: Average
Interests: Legends, History, Handicraft, Collecting Gems and Weapons

Should this be on display at first or should it be provided after the fact in order to help give players an idea on how to behave as the selected character?

mobdrazhar
2010-06-16, 05:17 PM
something like that would be awesome for your players to have from the word go!

DoodlesD
2010-06-16, 05:30 PM
But if i provide characters that my players are most comfortable with, won't they just play characters who are nearly exactly like the ones they've played before. Basically, i don't want my players to get fixed in their established patterns of play. I'd like to see my players breakout a little bit and try classes they haven't tried, and generally give these characters personalities not of their own. Essentially, i want them to roleplay, not play as themselves. I apologize if my frequent input is irritating and confusing.

TheThan
2010-06-16, 05:34 PM
Personally I think that forcing your players to use characters with predesigned backgrounds and personalities is a bad idea. Part of the role-playing experience is coming up with unique individuals that are different from yourself. If a Dm decided to force the players to play a specific individual, then well he is denying his players that part of the role-playing experience.

I also think this is bad for the Dm, as it gets very easy to say “no, that goes against your character’s personality” or somesuch, which stinks of heavy handed and railroading Dming. Which is usually a bad thing. To me, if your going to be giving your players fully fleshed out characters with backstories and personalities, you might as well send everyone home and start writing a book.

Comfort zones exist for a reason, forcing people out of that safe spot is a good way to earn negative points. Depending on how forceful you are with this, you can even make people quit and leave the gaming group. People will naturally step out of their comfort zones when they feel bold or safe enough to do so, but it may take time for them to do. But if you insist on giving them pregenerated, characters, I feel that its best to stick with just character sheets and let the players have control over their characters’ backstories and personalities.

Now that’s just my two cents. Since you seem very adamant about doing it. I feel the best way to handle it is to give them a bundle. Backstory and personality first, character sheet second. I feel that that your "Personality Profile" is too generic and vague to really get people into character. Especially considering that many of those personality traits are very relative, and not absolute. For example disposition: proud, how proud is this character, is he so proud that even the smallest slight will warrant a duel to the death? Will he slaughter a peasant for crossing his path? How prideful is he compared to his peers? These are all important aspects of a character that a single word cannot fully describe.

Aeromyre
2010-06-16, 05:37 PM
Personally I think that forcing your players to use characters with predesigned backgrounds and personalities is a bad idea. Part of the role-playing experience is coming up with unique individuals that are different from yourself. If a Dm decided to force the players to play a specific individual, then well he is denying his players that part of the role-playing experience.

I also think this is bad for the Dm, as it gets very easy to say “no, that goes against your character’s personality” or somesuch, which stinks of heavy handed and railroading Dming. Which is usually a bad thing. To me, if your going to be giving your players fully fleshed out characters with backstories and personalities, you might as well send everyone home and start writing a book.

Comfort zones exist for a reason, forcing people out of that safe spot is a good way to earn negative points. Depending on how forceful you are with this, you can even make people quit and leave the gaming group. People will naturally step out of their comfort zones when they feel bold or safe enough to do so, but it may take time for them to do. But if you insist on giving them pregenerated, characters, I feel that its best to stick with just character sheets and let the players have control over their characters’ backstories and personalities.

Now that’s just my two cents. Since you seem very adamant about doing it. I feel the best way to handle it is to give them a bundle. Backstory and personality first, character sheet second. I feel that that your "Personality Profile" is too generic and vague to really get people into character. Especially considering that many of those personality traits are very relative, and not absolute. For example disposition: proud, how proud is this character, is he so proud that even the smallest slight will warrant a duel to the death? Will he slaughter a peasant for crossing his path? How prideful is he compared to his peers? These are all important aspects of a character that a single word cannot fully describe.

No one is forcing anyone into doing anything they don't want, but doodles is sim ply giving them 11 different choices of people to play. If they don't like those choices then they simply don't have to play

mobdrazhar
2010-06-16, 05:39 PM
But if i provide characters that my players are most comfortable with, won't they just play characters who are nearly exactly like the ones they've played before. Basically, i don't want my players to get fixed in their established patterns of play. I'd like to see my players breakout a little bit and try classes they haven't tried, and generally give these characters personalities not of their own. Essentially, i want them to roleplay, not play as themselves.

What you could do is just tell them that you don't want them playing characters that are like thier usual, just remember to do this before you give out any character details. In they end though you need to remember that they players need to be happy with the characters they are playing or they will not enjoy the game. Unfortunately it's a balancing act here.


I apologize if my frequent input is irritating and confusing.

You're fine... You're just trying to wrap your head around things.

PersonMan
2010-06-16, 05:43 PM
No one is forcing anyone into doing anything they don't want, but doodles is sim ply giving them 11 different choices of people to play. If they don't like those choices then they simply don't have to play

Yeah, "do this or don't play" AKA "my way or the highway" seems like such a great choice.

TheThan
2010-06-16, 05:46 PM
What I’m trying to say is that making people pick between characters (which a player may not like any of the choices presented) is a slippery slope for a dungeon master to step onto. It can lead down a dark path of bad practices, heavy handedness and general Asshat Dming. I’m not saying it will, but the potential is there and that temptation can become great. So I think its best to let players play what they wish to play (more or less), and get on with it.

KillianHawkeye
2010-06-16, 05:49 PM
No one is forcing anyone into doing anything they don't want, but doodles is sim ply giving them 11 different choices of people to play. If they don't like those choices then they simply don't have to play

Geez... I hope you told them to bring along their GameBoys in case they don't live up to your stringent criteria. :smallsigh::smallannoyed:

This is a game. It's about having fun.

DoodlesD
2010-06-16, 05:53 PM
That's where the players get to flesh out the characters, TheThan. The players will be able to select from a bank of 11 available characters and play within the suggested guidelines. For instance, If a character is proud, the player can play the character as a boaster or braggart, or as an incredibly independent and insecure character who refuses the help of others.

Nobody is being forced to do anything. I think you have the wrong perspective on what exactly it is that i'm doing.

Think of it like this. A village is under constant threat and harassment by a band of goblins in a nearby cavern. Some heroes from the village have elected to root at the goblins from their den. There are a certain number of heroes in the village, some who will remain behind to protect the village in case of another raid. The players would then choose which heroes they would like to play as to form a raiding party to attack the goblins' den.

Modules were pre-created campaign settings used in the earlier editions to create a campaign setting for DMs. Modules were also used with pregenerated characters in order to standardize use for tournament play. Basically, different groups of players would be able to select characters from the same pool, play the same campaign, and then compare their performance.

Basically, this is what i am trying to replicate. My concerns stem from the increased complexity of DND characters since the earlier editions.

Anyhow, This is not a new idea and i've received some positive input from several of my players about the idea. Therefore my concern is for the grounds on which my players make selections.

Coidzor
2010-06-16, 06:04 PM
Definitely have them know the personalities beforehand. Will avoid a fair number of problems. Maybe not necessary reveal the alignment to them and them having to guess it based off of the personality. Sort of like AD&D where the characters had an idea based off of their starting alignment but only the DM and the way effects treated them could tell their current/actual alignment.

Unless there's some sort of gear issues, I'd say at least what class and level they're starting at.

Lin Bayaseda
2010-06-16, 06:05 PM
DoodlesD, it seems from your last post your decision was already made and you merely made this thread seeking affirmation.

On the off chance I'm wrong
With all respect, Rannil has it wrong, TheThan has it right. Providing a cute little personality profile sounds neat on paper, but more likely than not, will end up with a player or two or more saddled with character they didn't really want. And believe me, you don't want your players doing your campaign with a character they don't want.

Provide all the technical data. All. Avoid flavorful descriptions like "athletic". "5 ranks in Jump" is the way to go. If at all possible, avoid providing them personality types. Even "proud" is too much.

Aeromyre
2010-06-16, 06:05 PM
Geez... I hope you told them to bring along their GameBoys in case they don't live up to your stringent criteria. :smallsigh::smallannoyed:

This is a game. It's about having fun.

I certainly didn't mean it like that
and our players, are very open to Roleplaying but don't really understand the difference in playing as characters, and playing as players.
Even though I as the primary DM have explained the difference between them, they still seem to cling to their own personality types. Doodles wants to do this experiment to try to get the characters in a role where they can be comfortable but less like themselves...I think anyways...what would i know i'd just his brother

DoodlesD
2010-06-16, 06:18 PM
I see your point Lin. I do see how that could be a problem if some of the players don't like the personality of the character they'd like to play, and choose to play a different character because of it.

What if i provided the profile as more of an example of how a player "could" play a character instead of a rigid personality? I do want to provide backgrounds because the characters will be connected to the story through previous affiliation. If the Personality guidelines were optional, would that be more beneficial to the players? a problem i encounter with some frequency is that some players throw role play out the window and the night devolves into an evening of repetitive dice rolling. I rather hoped providing personalities might prevent this problem from happening, but it appears that a lot of people think this would actually hamper the game play.

Is there an alternative to this solution?

Knaight
2010-06-16, 06:23 PM
Give them fully made characters, give them backgrounds, just leave personality up to the players, and the given backgrounds is optional. Stats is the important part, everything else goes much faster.

Lin Bayaseda
2010-06-16, 07:40 PM
I see your point Lin. I do see how that could be a problem if some of the players don't like the personality of the character they'd like to play, and choose to play a different character because of it.

What if i provided the profile as more of an example of how a player "could" play a character instead of a rigid personality? YES! I do want to provide backgrounds because the characters will be connected to the story through previous affiliation. If the Personality guidelines were optional, would that be more beneficial to the players? YES, YES!

I like the idea of guidelines a lot. Saying "you might want to act this way" is actually even better than "act whichever way you want". And it's certainly better than saying "you must act this way".


a problem i encounter with some frequency is that some players throw role play out the window and the night devolves into an evening of repetitive dice rolling.
Join the club :smallbiggrin:

DoodlesD
2010-06-16, 07:43 PM
Great =) Thank you very much Lin. You're input has been especially helpful.

herrhauptmann
2010-06-16, 08:14 PM
Did a few one shot games like this. DM only told us the character names and races. And he gave the 4 of us a list of like 12 characters to choose from.
After we made our choice, he let us see the entire character sheet.

It was fun doing that. Only 1 played a random character similar to their usual characters in 5 games.
Trying to actually roleplay a character within the given backstory was awesome and difficult as well.
Of course, party power did suffer quite a bit. In 3.0 rules: A blaster wizard, a sorc who used mostly abjuration, a bard, and a paladin.

Lin Bayaseda
2010-06-16, 09:36 PM
I could see this working in a 1-shot, when the players are immersed in the novelty of a brand new character, but not in a campaign, when after 2-3 sessions the novelty wears off and some of them realize they wanted something else.

DoodlesD
2010-06-16, 10:27 PM
Well we all take turns DMing and most of us have multiple characters. I'm not thinking i'm gonna take Module this further then three gaming segments so it won't be a permanent deal anyhow.

dragoonsgone
2010-06-17, 12:31 AM
Well we all take turns DMing and most of us have multiple characters. I'm not thinking i'm gonna take Module this further then three gaming segments so it won't be a permanent deal anyhow.

Try it. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work. It does sound like a better idea for a 1-2 shot than a long term campaign. If its just for a 1 shot, have them draw them out of a hat or roll a d12 for it.

My only problem with the idea is that if someone is comfortable with an archetype and the night devolves into repetitive dice rolling, why would having one that your uncomfortable with help that? I would think it would make it worse. Its a gamble though and worse case scenario, it doesn't help.

DoodlesD
2010-06-17, 10:46 PM
It is a gamble, i agree. I do think it will give the players ideas on what other things they might want to try though. They do get to choose from a list, but there are only a few characters who can fill the same roles (like i only have 2 arcane casters, not including a bard) so not everybody will wind up playing the same type of class (which actually happened. a party full of casters gets tedious, especially if they're all using completely different spells or even spell lists). I think it's important for players to try other things because they might discover new things that they actually like. If this does happen, it would be well worth the risk of running a fairly dull game.

I think what we'll wind up doing is giving it a 1-shot feel, but if my group likes the direction, i might take it further. if not, i probably won't do this type of thing again. If i get good results, some of the other posters on this forum might want to give it a try and see what kind of results they get from their players as far as game satisfaction goes.