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Master_Rahl22
2010-06-16, 10:03 PM
First off, here's the statblock I have so far. I'm definitely going with Elf Primal Predator Druid with a focus on Beast Form. I really like summons, so I'd like to keep those but I'm not as attached to them as I am to the basic concept.

This is just the output of Myth Weaver's statblock cleaned up since GITP doesn't have OOC tags. For anything missing here, the name is a link to the sheet.
Briespen Wildleaf (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=140009), Elf Druid, Primal Summoner
Init +19 HP 148/148 Bloodied 74 Healing Surge 37 (0 used /10)
AC 38 Fort 32 Reflex 37 Will 37 Speed 8
Str 14 (+2) Con 16 (+3) Dex 24 (+7) Int 12 (+1) Wis 24 (+7) Cha 10 (0)
At-Will: Grasping Tide Swarming Locusts Savage Rend Wild Shap
Encounter: Grasping Earth Scavenger's Prize Blood-Spray Bite Redfang Prophecy Elven Accuracy
Daily: Summon Giant Toad Summon Guardian Briar Summon Proud Mastodon Summon Primal Slayer
Utility: Sudden Bite Camouflage Cloak Feywild Sojourn Tightened Control Wall of Stone Sky Talon


I'd like recommendations on a better Epic Destiny, first off. Yes I know that Demigod/Chosen is awesome, but it's also what my last 3 Epic characters have used so I'd like something else. Second, I need items. I'm having trouble balancing Beast/Charge/Rar damage with control and my summons, so recommendations there would be awesome as well. Those two are the most important things I'd like help with. I'm reasonably happy with my feats and powers, although if you'd like to comment on those too feel free.

Meta
2010-06-16, 10:12 PM
First off, here's the statblock I have so far. I'm definitely going with Elf Primal Predator Druid with a focus on Beast Form. I really like summons, so I'd like to keep those but I'm not as attached to them as I am to the basic concept.

I'd like recommendations on a better Epic Destiny, first off. Yes I know that Demigod/Chosen is awesome, but it's also what my last 3 Epic characters have used so I'd like something else. Second, I need items. I'm having trouble balancing Beast/Charge/Rar damage with control and my summons, so recommendations there would be awesome as well. Those two are the most important things I'd like help with. I'm reasonably happy with my feats and powers, although if you'd like to comment on those too feel free.

Briespen Wildleaf (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=140009), Elf Druid, Primal Summoner
Init +19 HP 148/148 Bloodied 74 Healing Surge 37 (0 used /10)
AC 38 Fort 32 Reflex 37 Will 37 Speed 8
Str 14 (+2) Con 16 (+3) Dex 24 (+7) Int 12 (+1) Wis 24 (+7) Cha 10 (0)
At-Will: Grasping Tide Swarming Locusts Savage Rend Wild Shap
Encounter: Grasping Earth Scavenger's Prize Blood-Spray Bite Redfang Prophecy Elven Accuracy
Daily: Summon Giant Toad Summon Guardian Briar Summon Proud Mastodon Summon Primal Slayer
Utility: Sudden Bite Camouflage Cloak Feywild Sojourn Tightened Control Wall of Stone Sky Talon


Might wanna clean that spoilered section up a bit. Also summoning and beast form don't really mix too well because summoning powers don't have the beast keyword which is really gonna make for some big opportunity cost at times

Master_Rahl22
2010-06-16, 10:31 PM
Well, I grabbed Quick Wild Shape so I can change as a free action. Did you mean that I need to be sure to have some powers to use in humanoid form? My basic plan was to summon something at the start of the fight, then Wild Shape and rip faces off. Like I said, the Summons don't have to stay, but I do like the idea of creating my own flanking buddy and rending things limb from limb as two beasts working together.

Meta
2010-06-16, 11:48 PM
Well, I grabbed Quick Wild Shape so I can change as a free action. Did you mean that I need to be sure to have some powers to use in humanoid form? My basic plan was to summon something at the start of the fight, then Wild Shape and rip faces off. Like I said, the Summons don't have to stay, but I do like the idea of creating my own flanking buddy and rending things limb from limb as two beasts working together.


The problem I see is this. The feat in epic tier called Primal Summoning Expertise lets you command summons to attack with a minor actions which amazingly good. But you cant command a summon to attack while in beast form. Although Wild Shape is a free action you can only use it once a round, so lets say you Summon something first turn. Then you have it attack as a minor and shift to beast form and attack yourself.

Next turn comes up you attack first, shift to human, then have beast attack minor action. You get the idea. You can definitely make this work, but it's a bit chaotic.

The other method would be to not even worry about controlling your summons. If you pick party friendly summons that all have beneficial and efficient instinctive actions, (giant toad, giant crocodile, etc.) then you dont have to be shifting. You summon a beast, let it go to town with its natural instincts and stay in beast form and wreck face. You also save a feat on not needing Primal Summoning Expertise and there is a feat that rewards summons that use their instinctive action with a to-hit bonus I believe so that's perfect.

The only real downside of this is that you're picking daily powers that you're not going to be used optimally. The fluff is great and both of the options detailed are perfectly playable but you'll never be quite as effective as a pure summoner who spams minor action attacks and other focused-summoning shenanigans. But this shouldnt really be an issue unless you have a DM who's out for blood.

Hope this helps and happy limb rending :P

EDIT: Also could you tell me what you're looking for in an ED? fluff, mechanics, bonuses to what, etc. Anything like that would be helpful

Swordgleam
2010-06-17, 01:18 AM
Then you have it attack as a minor and shift to beast form and attack yourself.

Next turn comes up you attack first, shift to human, then have beast attack minor action. You get the idea. You can definitely make this work, but it's a bit chaotic.

I kind of like that mental image. Some crazy half-naked guy wearing furs who keeps turning into a panther and back again constantly while shouting incoherently at the other panther.

Master_Rahl22
2010-06-17, 07:23 AM
Where does it say you can't command your summons in beast form? If that's so, I'll probably just get rid of Primal Summoning Expertise and let them go with their instinctive effects.

For my ED, I was looking for something that at least boosts Wisdom, and that would make me a better melee controller/striker/summoner. I looked at Sovereign Beast, and the fluff is awesome, but I really don't need more speed, and the +2 damage isn't as good as +1 to attack and damage from Wisdom boosts. I also looked at Fury of the Wild which looks decent, since even if I don't have a boost to my crit range I have several blast/burst powers to increase my odds.

Hmm, assuming you're correct that I can't command summons while in beast form, I'm tempted to drop the Primal Summoner PP and not spend any resources on improving the summons. Of course from there it's just a small step to dropping the summons altogether. :smallannoyed: Man now I have less finalized than I started with. :smalltongue:

Meta
2010-06-17, 10:46 AM
Where does it say you can't command your summons in beast form? If that's so, I'll probably just get rid of Primal Summoning Expertise and let them go with their instinctive effects.

For my ED, I was looking for something that at least boosts Wisdom, and that would make me a better melee controller/striker/summoner. I looked at Sovereign Beast, and the fluff is awesome, but I really don't need more speed, and the +2 damage isn't as good as +1 to attack and damage from Wisdom boosts. I also looked at Fury of the Wild which looks decent, since even if I don't have a boost to my crit range I have several blast/burst powers to increase my odds.

Hmm, assuming you're correct that I can't command summons while in beast form, I'm tempted to drop the Primal Summoner PP and not spend any resources on improving the summons. Of course from there it's just a small step to dropping the summons altogether. :smallannoyed: Man now I have less finalized than I started with. :smalltongue:

Although you could try and convince your DM otherwise, because it never explicitly says so, wild shape says you cannot use any powers that don't have the beast keyword in beast form. You could argue that your not using a power so much as just 'controlling it' but you're really using your standard action to repeat the summons attack again and again which is listed on the power entry, so I'd say its 80-ish% likely RAW won't help us here.

You could drop summoning and Take the Bloodmoon Stalker PP for a crit range and make Fury of the Wild look more attractive. There are some really fun combos that can be pulled with staying in beast form. Deadly Draw, Clawed Gloves, etc.

EDIT: @ Storm. Seems like how a druid should be: equally at home in human or animal shape. Makes upkeep annoying in a few ways though, as more than a few druid feats give bonuses in beast form so your stats keep changing every turn. Certainly can be worked around but annoying

Master_Rahl22
2010-06-17, 01:05 PM
Yeah, I'm already 2/3 of the way there, I think I'll just find Beast Form Dailies and go with Bloodmoon Stalker and Fury of the Wild.

So, the thread is now about good items for a Elf Primal Predator Druid / Bloodmoon Stalker / Fury of the Wild focused on doing good damage and still being a controller.

First topic: Our DM likes to throw hard to deal with enemies at us, invisible and/or flying enemies being some of the hardest to cope with. For example, my mostly melee Druid should probably be able to fly at least one encounter per day. So, I know Rushing Cleats are handy for extra sliding distance, but I was seriously considering Zephyr Boots so I could fly all the time. Should I just trust that Sky Talon will be enough and go with the Cleats?

Meta
2010-06-17, 02:08 PM
Yeah, I'm already 2/3 of the way there, I think I'll just find Beast Form Dailies and go with Bloodmoon Stalker and Fury of the Wild.

So, the thread is now about good items for a Elf Primal Predator Druid / Bloodmoon Stalker / Fury of the Wild focused on doing good damage and still being a controller.

First topic: Our DM likes to throw hard to deal with enemies at us, invisible and/or flying enemies being some of the hardest to cope with. For example, my mostly melee Druid should probably be able to fly at least one encounter per day. So, I know Rushing Cleats are handy for extra sliding distance, but I was seriously considering Zephyr Boots so I could fly all the time. Should I just trust that Sky Talon will be enough and go with the Cleats?

Well you're an elf with a high dex so you could always carry a bow around with you. Skyrender (AV1) would be my suggestion. That plus sky talon and hoping that someone else in the party has flying and you should be okay.

As for countering invis, there's a wondrous item called the lantern of revelation which is great but uses up a valuable daily item slot. You can take blindfight (feat phb) in epic tier which will help a bit as well. If you don't mind breaking the bank the Ioun Stone of Truesight (phb) is pretty much the end all to invisibility once a day and also gets you +6 to perception insight and dark vision. A great head slot for sure. The other way to approach combating invisible creature is to buff perception through the roof so you always know what square they're in, and if you have bursts and blasts your allies and you wont get the -5 for total concealment. Thus negating invis as well.

ITEMS:
Accurate Staff of Ruin
Marauding or Enduring Beast Armor
Iron Armbands of Power
Rushing Cleats
Claw Gloves (MUST take deadly draw feat! This gives you CA when you slide a target. You have a spammable at will that slides! Claw gloves are 1d10 damage when you have CA. What a combo)
Horned Helm (offense) or a Will booster (defensive)
Badge of the Berserker
Ring of Invisibility/Shadow Band
Dauntless Champion's Ring/Nullifying Ring/Ring of the Phoenix
Diamond Cincture
Siberyis Shard of the Mage

Master_Rahl22
2010-06-18, 09:14 AM
Those items match almost exactly what I've been looking at. I'll have a look at the Deadly Draw feat, sounds yummy. Where is it found?

Meta
2010-06-18, 12:12 PM
Those items match almost exactly what I've been looking at. I'll have a look at the Deadly Draw feat, sounds yummy. Where is it found?

Player's Handbook 3