[3.5] How to replace "boring" magic items with inherent bonuses

[nefele]

A lot of people dislike the "Christmas Tree" effect and the dependency on magic items in 3.5. And the most common solution offered is to replace standard magic items (mainly stat boosters, +X weapons and armors and resistance cloaks) with inherent bonuses which scale by level. That way, your adventurers can still fight appropriate CR encounters even without access to magic-marts, and any mention of "magic items" in play can be something unique and extraordinary etc.

The concept is great. But what about the math? Does anyone actually play 3.5 with such a houserule? Have you perhaps worked out the numbers and playtested it? And if so, what did you come up with, exactly?

The only detailed houserule I've found in this forum is from Vael's Triad Campaign Setting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130893):

Magic items are no longer something readily available to the players. They cannot be bought except under unusual circumstances. This serves to keep magic items rare and unusual, and also keeps character creation at high levels from being like a shopping list.

However, much of the balance in D&D depends on the addition of bonuses that certain magic items can give, and so with a lack of magic items, things become far more difficult. Thus, in exchange for the rarity of magic items, all characters get the bonuses listed below:

{table=head]ECL|Bonuses
3|+1 D, +1 R
4|+1 A
6|+2 D, +2 R
7|+2 A
8|+3 D, +3 R
10|+4 D, +3 A, +4 R
12|+5 D, +5 R
13|+4 A
15|+5 A[/table]

A = Enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls (this applies to all natural and crafted used, though not to weaponlike spells)
D = Deflection bonus to armor class.
R = Resistance bonus to saves.

As well, characters gain enhancement bonuses to their ability scores as according to the rules below:
At each ECL, starting at 3rd, characters gain an enhancement point that they may spend or keep later. Once spent, however, they can't change their choice. Beginning at 11th level, characters gain two enhancement points per level.
These points can be used to add an enhancement bonus to a stat, and increases based on what you are increasing that bonus to. Each bonus level requires the previous level, and thus, the total points compound. (A +4 total bonus would cost 1+1+2+2, or 6 total).

{table=head]Bonus|Cost
+1|1
+2|1
+3|2
+4|2
+5|3
+6|3[/table]

...It seems OK to me. The bonus to AC is deflection (which covers fighters and casters alike), the bonus to attack/damage is for weapons only and not spells (which is thoughtful, as far as I'm concerned) and the stat boost is a sort of point-buy (which seems a good idea). But I'm not sure if it's appropriate to have a +5 to resistance and deflection already by level 12.

Then again, this is a houserule for a specific setting, and perhaps it was intended to address its peculiarities rather than work for everything under the sun. (Vael, some input would be welcome here. Have you tried this houserule with other settings, too? Or was it tailored to the Triad one?)


Any other variations? Does anyone here use (or has stumbled upon) another relevant houserule?
Thanks in advance. :)

[jiriku]

A houserule I use to reduce the Christmas tree effect is to actually reduce the number of magic item slots a character has. I use the following:

Head + Eyes = Head Slot
Neck + Shoulders = Upper Body Slot
Torso + Body + Belt = Body Slot
Arms + Hands + Left Ring + Right Ring = Limb Slot
Boots + Pants (if such existed) = Leg Slot

This immediately reduces the character's maximum wearable magic items from 12 to 5. This encourages players who want a lot of magic to craft/commission a few powerful items rather than a collection of weaker items. I still enforce that stacking fee for multiple effects in one slot, but when players want to build a combo item I work with them to build an item with a coherent theme, rather than something that feels like a washer/dryer that also has an ice maker and a vegetable slicing attachemnt.

At higher levels, I give out more than standard WBL to account for the fact that players are frequently going to be paying the +50% stacking fee to put multiple similar effects on one item.

My experience with the system has been mixed. Players are carrying around fewer magic items, it's true, but the Christmas-Tree-Setter in my group has worked around the reduced number of body slots by going crazy with wands and slotless items. So my changes are still not a mature solution to the problem. I think I'll try adding Vael's solution too in my next campaign. That should further reduce the need for shopping trips.

Edit: Something else I've tossed around is eliminating certain types of bonus stacking. For example, I could rule that deflection, natural armor, and enhancement bonuses to AC overlap but do not stack, and allow the bonus items to scale up to +10 pre-epic. This means that you'd get one item to improve your AC, rather than three or four or five. However, I'd have to rebalance all the costs on those items, and I'm not sure the extra hassle is worth it.

[shadow_archmagi]

So, effectively, you want characters to give up some items for identical benefits?


Why do you need a system? Isn't this effectively just a refluff if you're keeping all the numbers the same?

[Zore]

Edit: Something else I've tossed around is eliminating certain types of bonus stacking. For example, I could rule that deflection, natural armor, and enhancement bonuses to AC overlap but do not stack, and allow the bonus items to scale up to +10 pre-epic. This means that you'd get one item to improve your AC, rather than three or four or five. However, I'd have to rebalance all the costs on those items, and I'm not sure the extra hassle is worth it.

AC is difficult to raise even with the relative abundance of bonuses. Its trivial to hit things starting at a low level and if your AC capped at 20+Dex mod? You wouldn't even need Shock Trooper to Power Attack for full damage each turn with most monsters. Not to mention it would require a major system rebalance because everything is now an autohit from everyone.

[Kalirren]

Why do you need a system? Isn't this effectively just a refluff if you're keeping all the numbers the same?

Well, it changes the economy a little bit. Notably, It's easier to make the accumulation of money itself translate into a meaningful accumulation of power. A campaign world with these rules and mostly tier 3 or 4 classes would be far less Tippyverse-y.

Stat-wise it's not a big change; its changes are mostly in IC motivation. I'd play a system like that over the typical.

[Mike_G]

We give out a competence bonus to AC of 1/2 BAB.

Being better at fighting should mean being better at avoiding attacks.

D20 modern and D20 Conan have a level scaling defensive bonus, since there really isn't any magic armor in those systems, so it seems balanced.

Since, RAW, the only real way to boost AC is magic, this helps.

[Morty]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind +x items as much as the use-activated ones that duplicate spells?

[mcl01]

If you have BoED, you could look at their progression for Vow of Poverty. It's essentially the same as yours except more spread out.

Looking at simply +X status bonuses, over the course of 20 levels, it gives you:

+5 to attack/damage
+3 resistance to saves
+3 deflection AC bonus
+2 natural AC bonus
+10 exalted AC bonus.*
+8/+6/+4/+2 to 4 different ability scores


*Considering this starts at +4 exalted AC at level 1, you could instead start it at +1 at the next increase, and call it an enhancement bonus to their armor as opposed to an exalted bonus. Thus, they'd get +6 by level 20.

[Fitz10019]

As of recently, I do stat bonuses as follows:
Level 1 Point Buy is 32
Level 4 Point Buy is increased to 36
Level 8 Point Buy is increased to 40
Level 12 Point Buy is increased to 45
Level 16 Point Buy is increased to 50
Level 20 Point Buy is increased to 56

Initial point buy still has a maximum stat of 18. The point buy costs of stat scores 18=>19 and 19=>20 are 4 points each; the point buy costs of stat scores 20=>21 and 21=>22 are 5 points each; and so on. All or some of these points can be spent immediately or banked for the next upgrade, except it is not permitted to bank some of the points from the 32 starting points at level 1. The philosophy is to reduce the pain of SAD v. MAD, but is too early to say if it has succeeded.

I don't have a solution to the Christmas tree effect because I think shopping is part of the psychology of the game.

[Oslecamo]

So, effectively, you want characters to give up some items for identical benefits?


Why do you need a system? Isn't this effectively just a refluff if you're keeping all the numbers the same?

This. When someone once said point buy systems are superior to D&D, I answered that D&D is point buy, but instead of points you get gold pieces. It may sound like a joke at first, but it works that way actualy.

Pretty much everything has a price in the books. So instead of loot, the party gets Build Points in top of the experience points. They can then use those Build Points to buy "inherent" upgrades. There, no christmas tree effect and you don't only make sure the basic bonus(AC, attack, saves) are there, but also allow for the other magic extras characters need like flying, immunities, etc, etc.

[AmberVael]

...It seems OK to me. The bonus to AC is deflection (which covers fighters and casters alike), the bonus to attack/damage is for weapons only and not spells (which is thoughtful, as far as I'm concerned) and the stat boost is a sort of point-buy (which seems a good idea). But I'm not sure if it's appropriate to have a +5 to resistance and deflection already by level 12.

Then again, this is a houserule for a specific setting, and perhaps it was intended to address its peculiarities rather than work for everything under the sun. (Vael, some input would be welcome here. Have you tried this houserule with other settings, too? Or was it tailored to the Triad one?)

This idea was partially inspired (partially just blatantly taken) by a similar system that SweetRein created, which you can find here. (http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/index.php?title=Core_Tweaks#Replaced_Resistance)

Personally, I find the Resistance bonus to be quite reasonable (which is why I used it whole-sale). If you look at WBL, you'll note that you can consistently buy an item of Resistance at the appropriate levels. Heck, by level 12, you have 88,000gp... and a cloak of resistance +5 costs 25,000.

I'll grant that that might be a bit costly for the average player, but the other thing to remember is that Saves are a heavily important part of gameplay- and Save based mechanics frequently tend to be a bit overpowered given that they can end encounters before they start. Therefore, I think making the bonus more commonly available isn't such a bad thing. It doesn't even really give you much more of a boost than you would ever have anyway, so I think it's a perfectly reasonable progression.

The Deflection bonus I'm not so sure of, but touch AC has always been notoriously low, Deflection has always been fairly overpriced (IMO), and it is a bonus that should apply to everyone.
On top of that, AC scales horribly. Like, really, really bad. So even if it is given to people faster than normal, that's not necessarily bad, given that the Attack Bonus system would normally outpace it anyway. (Especially given that in my system, you're not going to have many other AC bonuses anyway...)

[Gametime]

This. When someone once said point buy systems are superior to D&D, I answered that D&D is point buy, but instead of points you get gold pieces. It may sound like a joke at first, but it works that way actualy.

Pretty much everything has a price in the books. So instead of loot, the party gets Build Points in top of the experience points. They can then use those Build Points to buy "inherent" upgrades. There, no christmas tree effect and you don't only make sure the basic bonus(AC, attack, saves) are there, but also allow for the other magic extras characters need like flying, immunities, etc, etc.

...I actually really, really like this idea. It seems worth pointing out, though, that this may require a higher prevalence of magic than is present even in the already high-magic world of D&D; now, the fighter doesn't just have access to magic flying boots, he has access (somehow) to inherent magic that allows him to fly.

It's the same effect, but has a slightly different feel to it.

[Greenish]

They can then use those Build Points to buy "inherent" upgrades. There, no christmas tree effect and you don't only make sure the basic bonus(AC, attack, saves) are there, but also allow for the other magic extras characters need like flying, immunities, etc, etc.Inherent Rod of Ropes. Do want.

[Gnaeus]

My DM's houserule is:
No magic items that give enhancement bonuses to stats exist.

All characters get a +1 enhancement to a stat of their choice at 4th level and each level thereafter. Maximum bonus to any single stat is level/3, rounding all fractions up.

WBL is reduced by a percentage to make up for above.

[742]

why not just cut WBL and give characters X % of their reccomended WBL that they must spend* on flat bonus items that arent actually items and thematically are just "im awesome, also my inherent awesomeness doesnt stack with your magic lockpick.", so your rogue might have a +tumble and bluff and a +to dex or w/e, your wizard will have +INT and your fighter will have +STR and +hit/damage. it still allows character customization but reduces reliance on items and the wacky stuff they do, but the warrior can still have magical arrows and a sword that does fire damage, the rogue can still have armor with a +sneak effect and the wizard can still have a case full of scrolls or fancy magic robes. fits well with slot number reduction, and tends towards balance as the characters who rely a lot on items and need lots of bonuses to the same things (gloves of dex+bracers of archery) seem to be mostly the ones who already needed a buff (the wizard can only get one +int), but it interferes with flavor only as much as you want it to**. you could even give noncasters more to compensate for the wizards inherent awesomeness.

*possibly at a reduced price as flat bonuses seem to be to be worth less than wacky effects. maybe let them spend more than X% of their character wealth on this and pass it off thematically as training or being blessed by [dietyname] for embodying [value of {dietyname}] or performing a service for [dietyname] perhaps in the form of a charitable donation or particularly elaborate and costly dog-kicking of [thing {dietyname} doesnt like] if they dont notify you in advance.

**at the lowest level your warrior would have to buy actual boots of flying and swords would not instantly burst into flame when they pick them up, flat viewer-transparent bonuses only that could be passed off as "how did i make that jump? im just awesome, now hit me with a fly spell so i can follow the stupid dragon", at the other extreme they could spend their not-money on a fly effect.

[Gametime]

Inherent Rod of Ropes. Do want.

That's nothing to compared to my inherent rod of lordly might, to say nothing of my inherent immovable rods. :smallbiggrin: